True, you will not have enough Recharge Speed with recovery alone, INT is required.
However, if you use Gloaming Cut and Sneaky Stabber (each attack refills 10% stealth), you won't need high amount of Recharge Speed. But, with this you'll have to play really aggressive as you really really need to land those Gloaming Cuts and need to hit them a couple times just to make up for the low Recharge Speed.
The build is outdated by the current meta. This was great previous to the GF block fix and the GWF double buff (2 patches in a row). Currently the build cant win, it is a poke build that requires you to stay away/stealthed almost the whole fight and half the targets on the map are no longer anywhere near as squishy as they used to be. PLUS you lost most of the dmg on Shocking so your burst is way down. As fun as perma stealth can be, it doesn't cut it right now. Just my opinion though.
The build cant win alone that's for sure, it requires the team to do their part in taking the other capture points. What most people do and what I've seen competitive PvP is when they see a TR and know it's a Perma-Stealth build, they would just fall back until stealth is gone and come back to wreck the TR, plain and simple because the Perma-Stealth requires a target to use Shadow Strike, a way to counter this is when you see them running away just quickly mount/dismount to cancel your stealth so you don't waste it. You should be ready to stealth up when any class comes at you, other then a TR. In a situation like this, its best for the enemy team to send a TR to kill a TR, LoS -> Stealth then take out the Perma-Stealth Rogue, the only option then for the Perma-Stealth TR is to quickly dodge as soon as he gets hit by the first CoS then stealth, then it's pretty much a Stealth Battle, relying on quick actions from the player himself, dodging when you see the enemy shimmer, predicting the enemies movement, it's rather intense in my opinion and really fun.
But anyways, damage is a problem. I've been reading some of the other classes forums like GF and GWF and how their godly in PvP, so I'm currently working on a godly TR build as well to counter these godly classes lol, just takes time and AD for testing but should have it tested, finalized, and guide written up hopefully at the end of the week
The godly GWF is because of the Ten stacking but that may be less now with the patch that is reducing or reduced the cool down to 20 seconds.
It may not have the high power damage but it seems to work well still in PvE from what I've seen.
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randallskiiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
Hey.. I tested at-wills benefit from 4th piece set bonus of Master Duelist's Set again on actual PreviewServer
This is really awesome!!! 12xClouds of Steel correctly reduced my CD for about 3sec.. with Dazzling Blades proced one time while spamming the complete pack I got a reduction from 15sec cooldown to 11s for impossible to catch (of course got the cd reductions on the other encounters too)
The character has no +recovery runes on his gear just a rolled human with 20 INT (without Campfire) + 1.1k Recovery from gear
Fixing the dazzling blades and set bug now allows perma-stealth without need of high gear or lvl 7+ runes well at least in pve.. pvp might still need better equip because you only have 12 stacks for range attack and wont be able to attack often with melee at wills like you can in pve ...but I think Master Duelist definitely superior to the 1st PvP Set
Doing Spider Temple solo wasnt even a problem due to higher dmg using Sly Flourish + Duelist's Flurry as primary at wills instead of Gloaming Cut + Duelist's Flurry which I used before to enable perma-stealth without high gear
I have a question, have you ever played with the option of 3/3? I mean putting 3 points into Mocking Knave and 3 points into Sneak of Shadows? I ask because both at 3 points gives a 6%. One is 6% at stealth, while the other gives 6% for Cloud of Steel. This gives an overall 12% of Cloud of Steel. Granted it does not increase the damage bonus pack but I feel it's kind of minor. What do you think?
Hey, I was just curious if the new rogue/guide you're currently working on involved perma-stealth as well? Or is it an entirely new playstyle altogether...
Will we be able to try it with the 15 str, 15 dex, 14(+2) int ability score rolls that we use with the perma-stealth build in this thread?
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randallskiiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 14Arc User
edited June 2013
personally: now I dont go far in Stealth/Tactic Feats to always have Overrun Critical in Executioner paragon... but I tried both feats and came to the conclusion that they cant keep up with Brutal Backstab especially when having high crit rates and a rogue that has permanent stealth (which will always give 25% crit severity)
in any case: low-crit rogue builds where Executioner feats dont make sense will do less dmg
I have a question, have you ever played with the option of 3/3? I mean putting 3 points into Mocking Knave and 3 points into Sneak of Shadows? I ask because both at 3 points gives a 6%. One is 6% at stealth, while the other gives 6% for Cloud of Steel. This gives an overall 12% of Cloud of Steel. Granted it does not increase the damage bonus pack but I feel it's kind of minor. What do you think?
I've tried it, and just by looking at it...
Sneak of Shadows (3/5) - 6% Damage
Mocking Knave (3/5) - 6% Damage
Bonus CoS DMG - 1.5% Damage
Total = 13.5
Build recommend choice
Sneak of Shadows (1/5) - 2% Damage
Mocking Knave (5/5) - 10% Damage
Bonus CoS DMG - 2.5% Damage
Total = 14.5% Damage
I tend to use all 12 CoS as my initiation, so the bonus damage per stack is really good
Hey, I was just curious if the new rogue/guide you're currently working on involved perma-stealth as well? Or is it an entirely new playstyle altogether...
Will we be able to try it with the 15 str, 15 dex, 14(+2) int ability score rolls that we use with the perma-stealth build in this thread?
It involves perma-stealth, it also doesn't rely heavy on the base stats of the rogue (unlike this INT set up for CD reduction), which means any rogue with any base stat can use it.
Hey.. I tested at-wills benefit from 4th piece set bonus of Master Duelist's Set again on actual PreviewServer
This is really awesome!!! 12xClouds of Steel correctly reduced my CD for about 3sec.. with Dazzling Blades proced one time while spamming the complete pack I got a reduction from 15sec cooldown to 11s for impossible to catch (of course got the cd reductions on the other encounters too)
Thanks randallskii, that's actually some good and important news. However, still wondering if attacking thin air (attacking nothing) will reduce Cool Down, if that's so, this Armor set might just be worth looking into. I might have to buy a set just to test it out. What this means is you can stay far away from your opponent and attack thin air to reduce CD for encounters (and CoS apparently) so you can stay range and stealth without the need of going into melee for DPS. But once again, if someone already has the set would kindly test it out, that would be great, if not I'll just have to buy one for this simple test.
Ive followed this build step by step but now that im 60 and fully equipped i noticed that high level enchantments are needed for perma. My lvl 6 silveries are not enough and now im leveling a stone to just have perma on pve and to get an idea of how much recovery i need. Do u have lvl 9 on both weapons x3lade? This is expensive to say the least and now im a sad panda
They just fixed the Master Duelist gear with the new patch, it's reducing CD times again. Yes it reduces CD times even while attacking thin air with Sly Flourish.
Ive followed this build step by step but now that im 60 and fully equipped i noticed that high level enchantments are needed for perma. My lvl 6 silveries are not enough and now im leveling a stone to just have perma on pve and to get an idea of how much recovery i need. Do u have lvl 9 on both weapons x3lade? This is expensive to say the least and now im a sad panda
In my videos 6 out of 7 Offensive Slots are rank 7 that's for sure. Then I have 1 rank 8 or 9, but I think you can just use 7xRank 7's
They just fixed the Master Duelist gear with the new patch, it's reducing CD times again. Yes it reduces CD times even while attacking thin air with Sly Flourish.
I've started up a few days playing nw n this guide make me rethink some specs of the game.
I will start up a new char based on his guide!
Thank you and congratz!!
I've been finding the power "Impossible to Catch" as an alternative to Impact Shot pretty good for me, especially since I'm too poor to achieve enough recovery for perma-stealth. Just when my stealth is about to drop and I don't have any powers recharged to keep it going, I use Impossible to Catch and in those few seconds usually Shadow Strike is ready to go again. It's great being able to attack the enemy while they waste all their big powers on me to no effect, then stealthing again. Something people might want to consider if they want more defense rather than offense.
Another thing I like to do is swapping out the rings for those real high regeneration rings the second top tier seal vendor sells. They got something like 480 regen. This puts you farther away from perma-stealth as it lowers your Recovery, but I find constantly regenerating a lot better than life steal...especially if you're stealth most of the time just healing and the enemy waiting there for you to unstealth stays the same health.
My first rogue character was a executioner, unfortunately his INT score is 10, which is why I made my 2nd rogue following your perma-stealth template. My executioner rogue is supposed to be DPS, and while he does score more damage than my perma-stealth rogue....it's not by tons. Again it's probably because my characters are poor. But I was looking at the differences between my two rogues and it appears the Perma-Stealth rogue heavily invests in Dodge Rolling recovery, and going for Mocking Knave. I timed how long it took for me to do three rolls from beginning to end of last roll. My executioner rogue with 24 STR took about 10 seconds, my perma-stealth rogue took 7 seconds unsteathed, 6 seconds stealthed. I'm thinking that's a lot of points on feats going towards dodge rolling and having to go down different paragon paths, and it doesn't seem to be helping my dodge rolling too much (maybe I just don't notice or am not effective at it). I also was debating whether Brutal Backstab and Overrun Critical could be better than Mocking Knave, Nimble Blade,and Expert Sneak.
What if we took the executioner rogue, used the INT Rogue ability stats to get the high INT but instead of STR go with DEX (so DEX & INT for leveling), gave it Twilight Adept & Improved Cunning Sneak? Wouldn't we have a slightly weaken executioner that could perma-stealth?
What if we took the executioner rogue, used the INT Rogue ability stats to get the high INT but instead of STR go with DEX (so DEX & INT for leveling), gave it Twilight Adept & Improved Cunning Sneak? Wouldn't we have a slightly weaken executioner that could perma-stealth?
It's hard to decide without knowing your stats, how much Critical Strike do you have? What is your base stats? How much recharge speed do you have?
But, just by looking at it all, I think it would be a good idea "if" you have enough Critical Strike chance.
I'd recommend:
1. Weapon Mastery (3/3) - 3% Chance to Critical Hit.
2. Brutal Backstab (5/5) - 25% Critical Severity.
3. Critical Teamwork (5/5) - 5% Chance to Critical Hit.
*you don't need Deadly Momentum unless you like using it, but in PvP it's really slow, easy to dodge and predict. You can put 5 from Deadly Momentum into Critical Teamwork*
4. Overrun Critical (1/1) - 30% Critical Severity after landing a Critical Hit.
5. Vorpal Weapon Enchantment - 12/25/38/50% Critical Severity.
If you can get about 45% Critical Strike Chance, I think that would be good enough.
It's hard to decide without knowing your stats, how much Critical Strike do you have? What is your base stats? How much recharge speed do you have?
My executioner Stats are: 22 STR, 12 CON, 24 DEX, 12 INT, 12 WIS, 14 CHA. (+2 to Dex, at level 60 with STR and DEX leveled up). 38.9% total crit chance with 2069 gear to crit chance.
But I'm not suggesting to use these stats as it won't get me Perma-Stealth with such a low INT. I'm suggesting to use your Perma-Stealth Rogue's stats and leveling up DEX & INT instead of STR & INT.
So that would be 17 STR, 13 CON, 21 DEX, 20 INT, 12 WIS, 15 CHA. (-4 to STR and +4 to DEX, meaning -4% to bonus strength damage, who cares about dodge stamina regen, +4% Crit Chance). With these stats I'd probably be at 35.9% total crit chance (-3 Dex from 24 DEX) at 2069 gear to crit chance.
3. Critical Teamwork (5/5) - 5% Chance to Critical Hit.
*you don't need Deadly Momentum unless you like using it, but in PvP it's really slow, easy to dodge and predict. You can put 5 from Deadly Momentum into Critical Teamwork*
Oh yeah. That could work, I don't even use Duelist Flurry in PvP. Forgot you can dump points in there and still get to Overrun Crit, keep seeing the columns of two as pick one or the other...which it's not.
I think that Critical Teamwork would be better than Underhanded Tactics. 5% Crit versus a 3% damage buff?
Maybe. To be honest I don't even know what combat advantage gives you, let alone +20% more effective. Perhaps how about Critial Teamwork instead of Cunning Stalker. Who cares about +20% more action points while stealthed....just let your decoy produce the action points if somebody is stupid enough to attack it. Getting rid of Deadly Momentum might be a better pick though.
The new meta TR build floating around here on Dragon is 6x greater tenebrous with the 480+ regen rings. Like a troll sentinel GWF but now in stealth form.
480+ Regen Rings? What are the name of those? Can anyone wear those rings? I ask because I have a Cleric who I concentrate Regen on and I could honestly use those as it will help greatly.
480+ Regen Rings? What are the name of those? Can anyone wear those rings? I ask because I have a Cleric who I concentrate Regen on and I could honestly use those as it will help greatly.
It's called Seal of the Executioner, 478 Regeneration. Looks like it only works for the TR. "Required Class: Trickster Rogue". It's at the Pegasus Seal Dealer for 15 seals if anybody else wants to get it.
I also found some items which offered more Recovery than the listed items in this guide, although the guide listed items probably give you more other stuff that might be helpful while these items are more single focused on Recovery.
Green Devotee's Amulet of Respite: 250 Recovery
Blue Occult Amulet of Respite: 133 Crit Strike, 243 Recovery (There's two version with the same name, this is the better one)
Blue Bleached Bone Belt: 325 Recovery (Enchantment Slot is Defense though, bad if you want to shove a Recovery Enchantment in)
Green Devotee's Ring of Respite: 250 Recovery
**** >.< That could have seriously helped my Cleric. Oh well. Thanks though
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aisthesis1234Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited June 2013
Hi x3lade,
Are you putting all your stat in int & str ? or you put some in Dex ?
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orodalfMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited June 2013
Maybe. To be honest I don't even know what combat advantage gives you, let alone +20% more effective. Perhaps how about Critial Teamwork instead of Cunning Stalker. Who cares about +20% more action points while stealthed....just let your decoy produce the action points if somebody is stupid enough to attack it. Getting rid of Deadly Momentum might be a better pick though.
Combat Advantage gives +15% damage. 20% more effectiveness is another 3% on top of that.
So what I've been up to was leveling up a high CON focused rogue, gear focused stats was Health and Critical Strike. Pumping health well over 30K and was planning on getting 1K damage procs from Tene's. The idea was to use Gloaming Cut + Sneaky Stabber as a way to keep stealth up as I wait for Bait and Switch and Shadow Strike to go off cool down. In the end, the damage was nice but the build over all was risky as it had to play aggressive and most of the time couldn't keep stealth up. Perma-Stealth in my opinion is practically the ultimate defense for a rogue, if the target can't hit you because they don't know where you are, your either going to win the fight or can just walk away from it unharmed.
The Perma-Stealth build is a fun build still with high potential in becoming better. That being said I'll be continuing to update this build with new and better gear, and changing feats around.
Opinion of INT: Intelligence is still a very important stat for a true Perma-Stealth build (keeping stealth up 100% of the time). Because of it, you don't have to focus a lot on Recovery which becomes harder to get even 1% recharge speed due to diminishing returns. An example of how big this effects your rogue's recharge speed is in order to get 26% recharge speed you'll need 4100 Recovery, if you don't have INT and that's huge.
UPDATE
New Armor Set - Battlefield Skulker's
I knew this set was going to be good for this type of build, but it blew my high expectations even further! The extra 5% Stealth duration is huge, because of it the Perma-Stealth Rogue only needs about 25% Recharge speed, with 20 INT you only need about 1.7K Recovery and because of that you can focus your enchantments on Greater Tenebrous or other DPS enchantments.
Changed Enchantments
Because I don't need to focus on a lot of recovery, it freed up some Offensive enchantment slots. I am now using...
3x[Silvery Enchantment, Rank 9]
3x[Greater Tenebrous], hoping to get a 4th one for my Amulet
Changed Rings
I changed the rings to Occult Ring of Respite. This gives +133 Critical and +244 Recovery. Even though I don't need to focus too much on recovery, you still need to reach the 25% recharge speed for Perma-Stealth.
Change Amulet
I went with Occult Amulet of Vitality instead of Respite because I've then reached 25% recharge speed and was better to focus on another stat, in this case it was health for tene damage, additionally the Amulet has Recovery, Critical Strike, and Health.
Change Weapon Enchantment
Changed [Bilethorn Enchantment] for [Greater Vorpal Enchantment] because the build has enough Critical Strike chance to make Critical Severity worth it.
Change Feats
I now focus more on the Executioner tree. With the overall changes I get...
3% Critical Strike - Weapon Mastery
5% Critical Strike - Critical Teamwork
25% Critical Severity - Brutal Backstab
30% Critical Severity - Overrun Critical
From the Scoundrel tree I get...
4% Damage
35% Chance to deal 20% Damage (on non-crit)
Passive Power Change
I swapped out Sneak Attack for Skilful Infiltrator to increase Critical Strike chance by 3%. It also gives me 15% movement speed so movement isn't too much of a lost.
I will update the Guide on the main orginal post with the new changes once I get these new changes complete, tested, and finalized. Still needing Armor Enchantment, Greater Tenebrous, and Radiant Rank 9 or 10.
Goal is to get my health up to 28K at least but shooting for 30K health. Critical Strike chance is fine as it is, 43% chance to critical hit but would like to get it up to 45% if possible. I'll have to max/min to see which stat I can lower in order to increase the other stats.
Quick Testing
I would also like to point out that this build easily does 10-14K critical hits on even a GF. The changes are huge for your DPS.
Hey ive read ever page of this guide, great work up btw. Ok , head is spinning, your the expert..
With the new Set bonus from the skulker set, needing only 25% recovery. Your saying 1.7k needed for a 20 Int. Can you help a overwhelmed (not enough coffee maybe lol) person out.
If ended up with a 18 INT after all is said in done and I can pump out 2334 recovery from gear + enchants, that'll put me at the recharge mark?
if 2500 recovery is 20%, I'm assuming 2334 should be around 18ish % 18+8 (without campfire) gives me 26% , 1% wiggle room.
Am I somewhat on the right page?
~FOUNDRY MISSION~ The Village on Ebon Lake ~Check it out!~
Search Code NW-DQ3S67EKX
H.P Lovecraft style Horror
Hey ive read ever page of this guide, great work up btw. Ok , head is spinning, your the expert..
With the new Set bonus from the skulker set, needing only 25% recovery. Your saying 1.7k needed for a 20 Int. Can you help a overwhelmed (not enough coffee maybe lol) person out.
If ended up with a 18 INT after all is said in done and I can pump out 2334 recovery from gear + enchants, that'll put me at the recharge mark?
if 2500 recovery is 20%, I'm assuming 2334 should be around 18ish % 18+8 (without campfire) gives me 26% , 1% wiggle room.
Am I somewhat on the right page?
I just checked it out on my rogue. With 20 INT and 2.1K recovery, I was given 27.7% recharge speed. So with 18 INT and 2.1K recovery should be 25.7% recharge speed (you can go a bit less recovery since you don't actually need a solid 25% recharge speed, I'm at 24.8% recharge speed bringing Bait and Switch down to 20 second cool down)
I just checked it out on my rogue. With 20 INT and 2.1K recovery, I was given 27.7% recharge speed. So with 18 INT and 2.1K recovery should be 25.7% recharge speed (you can go a bit less recovery since you don't actually need a solid 25% recharge speed, I'm at 24.8% recharge speed bringing Bait and Switch down to 20 second cool down)
Thanks, I think im going to try a variant..well by that meaning using drow. Starting stats 14str 17dex 12Int 15cha at 60 I should end up with 20str 19dex 18int 17cha OR this variant; 19str 20dex 18int 17cha (without campfire) hoping the 6% debuff drow fairy fire helps dps.
Sorry as much as I know those 3 feats from human are way important, I just cant bring myself to play a human.
What do you think?
~FOUNDRY MISSION~ The Village on Ebon Lake ~Check it out!~
Search Code NW-DQ3S67EKX
H.P Lovecraft style Horror
Thanks, I think im going to try a variant..well by that meaning using drow. Starting stats 14str 17dex 12Int 15cha at 60 I should end up with 20str 19dex 18int 17cha OR this variant; 19str 20dex 18int 17cha (without campfire) hoping the 6% debuff drow fairy fire helps dps.
Sorry as much as I know those 3 feats from human are way important, I just cant bring myself to play a human.
What do you think?
I like humans because of the 3 extra feats, those 3 extra feats put into Scoundrel Training for 9% more damage for At-Wills
+9% At-Will Damage VS 5% chance to cause 6% defense reduction for 4 seconds
Not sure how much 6% defense reduction on the target will compare to 9% more damage that doesn't rely on chance. (in PvE scenarios maybe that 6% defense reduction is really good, maybe better then the 9% more damage but in PvP, I don't think so since most don't focus on defense) but it's really your call if you like drows more then go for it
Well hell, I guess in the end I'll be a bit less in overall dmg, but maybe..just maybe the 6% debuff which helps everybody hitting that target will help in the end. It just wont show up on my overall score I guess if others get the advantage as well.
I know it says 5% chance, but IMO the debuff is up 100% all of the time when attacking. Possible bug. I read it acts like ArP but don't quote me.
I goofed and thought like one of the other classes I had Str = dmg bonus. Ugh, working on too many alts at the same time is no bueno.
So in the end I could end up with these variants
Dex based 17str 22Dex 18Int 17Cha
more str based 19str 20Dex 18Int 17Cha
more combat advantage 17Cha 20Dex 18Int 19Cha
Though It'll be my own fault if it don't pan out because I'm deviating from the course. lol
~FOUNDRY MISSION~ The Village on Ebon Lake ~Check it out!~
Search Code NW-DQ3S67EKX
H.P Lovecraft style Horror
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I like humans because of the 3 extra feats, those 3 extra feats put into Scoundrel Training for 9% more damage for At-Wills
+9% At-Will Damage VS 5% chance to cause 6% defense reduction for 4 seconds
Not sure how much 6% defense reduction on the target will compare to 9% more damage that doesn't rely on chance. (in PvE scenarios maybe that 6% defense reduction is really good, maybe better then the 9% more damage but in PvP, I don't think so since most don't focus on defense) but it's really your call if you like drows more then go for it
Almost all the +-defence stuff seem to be actually pure +-damage. Ie, that 6% defence reduction = 6% damage.
I've only tested it on dummies and PvE mobs, but I doubt players have different mechanics in regards to defence/damage resistance.
Also Disciple of Strength is a flat +6% damage, so I prefer that.
Where is that new armor set Battlefield Skulker coming from? I've seen them on the Auction House going for a lot. Is it populating the Dungeon Delves chest now or something?
Comments
However, if you use Gloaming Cut and Sneaky Stabber (each attack refills 10% stealth), you won't need high amount of Recharge Speed. But, with this you'll have to play really aggressive as you really really need to land those Gloaming Cuts and need to hit them a couple times just to make up for the low Recharge Speed.
But anyways, damage is a problem. I've been reading some of the other classes forums like GF and GWF and how their godly in PvP, so I'm currently working on a godly TR build as well to counter these godly classes lol, just takes time and AD for testing but should have it tested, finalized, and guide written up hopefully at the end of the week
It may not have the high power damage but it seems to work well still in PvE from what I've seen.
This is really awesome!!! 12xClouds of Steel correctly reduced my CD for about 3sec.. with Dazzling Blades proced one time while spamming the complete pack I got a reduction from 15sec cooldown to 11s for impossible to catch (of course got the cd reductions on the other encounters too)
The character has no +recovery runes on his gear just a rolled human with 20 INT (without Campfire) + 1.1k Recovery from gear
Fixing the dazzling blades and set bug now allows perma-stealth without need of high gear or lvl 7+ runes well at least in pve.. pvp might still need better equip because you only have 12 stacks for range attack and wont be able to attack often with melee at wills like you can in pve ...but I think Master Duelist definitely superior to the 1st PvP Set
Doing Spider Temple solo wasnt even a problem due to higher dmg using Sly Flourish + Duelist's Flurry as primary at wills instead of Gloaming Cut + Duelist's Flurry which I used before to enable perma-stealth without high gear
What Class Are You?
Will we be able to try it with the 15 str, 15 dex, 14(+2) int ability score rolls that we use with the perma-stealth build in this thread?
in any case: low-crit rogue builds where Executioner feats dont make sense will do less dmg
What Class Are You?
Sneak of Shadows (3/5) - 6% Damage
Mocking Knave (3/5) - 6% Damage
Bonus CoS DMG - 1.5% Damage
Total = 13.5
Build recommend choice
Sneak of Shadows (1/5) - 2% Damage
Mocking Knave (5/5) - 10% Damage
Bonus CoS DMG - 2.5% Damage
Total = 14.5% Damage
I tend to use all 12 CoS as my initiation, so the bonus damage per stack is really good
It involves perma-stealth, it also doesn't rely heavy on the base stats of the rogue (unlike this INT set up for CD reduction), which means any rogue with any base stat can use it.
Thanks randallskii, that's actually some good and important news. However, still wondering if attacking thin air (attacking nothing) will reduce Cool Down, if that's so, this Armor set might just be worth looking into. I might have to buy a set just to test it out. What this means is you can stay far away from your opponent and attack thin air to reduce CD for encounters (and CoS apparently) so you can stay range and stealth without the need of going into melee for DPS. But once again, if someone already has the set would kindly test it out, that would be great, if not I'll just have to buy one for this simple test.
In my videos 6 out of 7 Offensive Slots are rank 7 that's for sure. Then I have 1 rank 8 or 9, but I think you can just use 7xRank 7's
Thanks for the information
I will start up a new char based on his guide!
Thank you and congratz!!
Another thing I like to do is swapping out the rings for those real high regeneration rings the second top tier seal vendor sells. They got something like 480 regen. This puts you farther away from perma-stealth as it lowers your Recovery, but I find constantly regenerating a lot better than life steal...especially if you're stealth most of the time just healing and the enemy waiting there for you to unstealth stays the same health.
My first rogue character was a executioner, unfortunately his INT score is 10, which is why I made my 2nd rogue following your perma-stealth template. My executioner rogue is supposed to be DPS, and while he does score more damage than my perma-stealth rogue....it's not by tons. Again it's probably because my characters are poor. But I was looking at the differences between my two rogues and it appears the Perma-Stealth rogue heavily invests in Dodge Rolling recovery, and going for Mocking Knave. I timed how long it took for me to do three rolls from beginning to end of last roll. My executioner rogue with 24 STR took about 10 seconds, my perma-stealth rogue took 7 seconds unsteathed, 6 seconds stealthed. I'm thinking that's a lot of points on feats going towards dodge rolling and having to go down different paragon paths, and it doesn't seem to be helping my dodge rolling too much (maybe I just don't notice or am not effective at it). I also was debating whether Brutal Backstab and Overrun Critical could be better than Mocking Knave, Nimble Blade,and Expert Sneak.
What if we took the executioner rogue, used the INT Rogue ability stats to get the high INT but instead of STR go with DEX (so DEX & INT for leveling), gave it Twilight Adept & Improved Cunning Sneak? Wouldn't we have a slightly weaken executioner that could perma-stealth?
Here's what the feat selection would look like: http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=pa7:4hvcs:85rz,19i3535:6u000:6u000:b0z51&h=1
Whereas before I was using this feat selection for my executioner rogue: http://nwcalc.com/tr?b=pa7:4hvcs:85rz,1xi3i3i:6u000:6u000:b0z51&h=1
What do you think?
It's hard to decide without knowing your stats, how much Critical Strike do you have? What is your base stats? How much recharge speed do you have?
But, just by looking at it all, I think it would be a good idea "if" you have enough Critical Strike chance.
I'd recommend:
1. Weapon Mastery (3/3) - 3% Chance to Critical Hit.
2. Brutal Backstab (5/5) - 25% Critical Severity.
3. Critical Teamwork (5/5) - 5% Chance to Critical Hit.
*you don't need Deadly Momentum unless you like using it, but in PvP it's really slow, easy to dodge and predict. You can put 5 from Deadly Momentum into Critical Teamwork*
4. Overrun Critical (1/1) - 30% Critical Severity after landing a Critical Hit.
5. Vorpal Weapon Enchantment - 12/25/38/50% Critical Severity.
If you can get about 45% Critical Strike Chance, I think that would be good enough.
My executioner Stats are: 22 STR, 12 CON, 24 DEX, 12 INT, 12 WIS, 14 CHA. (+2 to Dex, at level 60 with STR and DEX leveled up). 38.9% total crit chance with 2069 gear to crit chance.
But I'm not suggesting to use these stats as it won't get me Perma-Stealth with such a low INT. I'm suggesting to use your Perma-Stealth Rogue's stats and leveling up DEX & INT instead of STR & INT.
So that would be 17 STR, 13 CON, 21 DEX, 20 INT, 12 WIS, 15 CHA. (-4 to STR and +4 to DEX, meaning -4% to bonus strength damage, who cares about dodge stamina regen, +4% Crit Chance). With these stats I'd probably be at 35.9% total crit chance (-3 Dex from 24 DEX) at 2069 gear to crit chance.
Oh yeah. That could work, I don't even use Duelist Flurry in PvP. Forgot you can dump points in there and still get to Overrun Crit, keep seeing the columns of two as pick one or the other...which it's not.
Maybe. To be honest I don't even know what combat advantage gives you, let alone +20% more effective. Perhaps how about Critial Teamwork instead of Cunning Stalker. Who cares about +20% more action points while stealthed....just let your decoy produce the action points if somebody is stupid enough to attack it. Getting rid of Deadly Momentum might be a better pick though.
It's called Seal of the Executioner, 478 Regeneration. Looks like it only works for the TR. "Required Class: Trickster Rogue". It's at the Pegasus Seal Dealer for 15 seals if anybody else wants to get it.
I also found some items which offered more Recovery than the listed items in this guide, although the guide listed items probably give you more other stuff that might be helpful while these items are more single focused on Recovery.
Green Devotee's Amulet of Respite: 250 Recovery
Blue Occult Amulet of Respite: 133 Crit Strike, 243 Recovery (There's two version with the same name, this is the better one)
Blue Bleached Bone Belt: 325 Recovery (Enchantment Slot is Defense though, bad if you want to shove a Recovery Enchantment in)
Green Devotee's Ring of Respite: 250 Recovery
Are you putting all your stat in int & str ? or you put some in Dex ?
Combat Advantage gives +15% damage. 20% more effectiveness is another 3% on top of that.
The Perma-Stealth build is a fun build still with high potential in becoming better. That being said I'll be continuing to update this build with new and better gear, and changing feats around.
Opinion of INT: Intelligence is still a very important stat for a true Perma-Stealth build (keeping stealth up 100% of the time). Because of it, you don't have to focus a lot on Recovery which becomes harder to get even 1% recharge speed due to diminishing returns. An example of how big this effects your rogue's recharge speed is in order to get 26% recharge speed you'll need 4100 Recovery, if you don't have INT and that's huge.
UPDATE
New Armor Set - Battlefield Skulker's
Changed Enchantments
3x[Silvery Enchantment, Rank 9]
3x[Greater Tenebrous], hoping to get a 4th one for my Amulet
Changed Rings
Change Amulet
Change Weapon Enchantment
Change Feats
From the Scoundrel tree I get...
Passive Power Change
I will update the Guide on the main orginal post with the new changes once I get these new changes complete, tested, and finalized. Still needing Armor Enchantment, Greater Tenebrous, and Radiant Rank 9 or 10.
Goal is to get my health up to 28K at least but shooting for 30K health. Critical Strike chance is fine as it is, 43% chance to critical hit but would like to get it up to 45% if possible. I'll have to max/min to see which stat I can lower in order to increase the other stats.
Quick Testing
I would also like to point out that this build easily does 10-14K critical hits on even a GF. The changes are huge for your DPS.
With the new Set bonus from the skulker set, needing only 25% recovery. Your saying 1.7k needed for a 20 Int. Can you help a overwhelmed (not enough coffee maybe lol) person out.
If ended up with a 18 INT after all is said in done and I can pump out 2334 recovery from gear + enchants, that'll put me at the recharge mark?
if 2500 recovery is 20%, I'm assuming 2334 should be around 18ish % 18+8 (without campfire) gives me 26% , 1% wiggle room.
Am I somewhat on the right page?
Search Code NW-DQ3S67EKX
H.P Lovecraft style Horror
I just checked it out on my rogue. With 20 INT and 2.1K recovery, I was given 27.7% recharge speed. So with 18 INT and 2.1K recovery should be 25.7% recharge speed (you can go a bit less recovery since you don't actually need a solid 25% recharge speed, I'm at 24.8% recharge speed bringing Bait and Switch down to 20 second cool down)
Thanks, I think im going to try a variant..well by that meaning using drow. Starting stats 14str 17dex 12Int 15cha at 60 I should end up with 20str 19dex 18int 17cha OR this variant; 19str 20dex 18int 17cha (without campfire) hoping the 6% debuff drow fairy fire helps dps.
Sorry as much as I know those 3 feats from human are way important, I just cant bring myself to play a human.
What do you think?
Search Code NW-DQ3S67EKX
H.P Lovecraft style Horror
I like humans because of the 3 extra feats, those 3 extra feats put into Scoundrel Training for 9% more damage for At-Wills
+9% At-Will Damage VS 5% chance to cause 6% defense reduction for 4 seconds
Not sure how much 6% defense reduction on the target will compare to 9% more damage that doesn't rely on chance. (in PvE scenarios maybe that 6% defense reduction is really good, maybe better then the 9% more damage but in PvP, I don't think so since most don't focus on defense) but it's really your call if you like drows more then go for it
Well hell, I guess in the end I'll be a bit less in overall dmg, but maybe..just maybe the 6% debuff which helps everybody hitting that target will help in the end. It just wont show up on my overall score I guess if others get the advantage as well.
I know it says 5% chance, but IMO the debuff is up 100% all of the time when attacking. Possible bug. I read it acts like ArP but don't quote me.
I goofed and thought like one of the other classes I had Str = dmg bonus. Ugh, working on too many alts at the same time is no bueno.
So in the end I could end up with these variants
Dex based 17str 22Dex 18Int 17Cha
more str based 19str 20Dex 18Int 17Cha
more combat advantage 17Cha 20Dex 18Int 19Cha
Though It'll be my own fault if it don't pan out because I'm deviating from the course. lol
Search Code NW-DQ3S67EKX
H.P Lovecraft style Horror
Almost all the +-defence stuff seem to be actually pure +-damage. Ie, that 6% defence reduction = 6% damage.
I've only tested it on dummies and PvE mobs, but I doubt players have different mechanics in regards to defence/damage resistance.
Also Disciple of Strength is a flat +6% damage, so I prefer that.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?225051-Settling-the-dispute-Disciple-of-Strength
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte