That's ridiculous, shows how mickey mouse that site actually is, you don't review games that aren't released yet...
Ok it was a review of a "open beta" right get over it. Most of the reviews from other sites say it isnt an open beta if the company starts to take money from the player base. I agree with the reviews about this also. They needed cash to keep developing the game so they called this an open beta and started to take the cash needed to fix the game. I think this is true. If it wasnt true then the exploits in the closed beta would of been fixed before this open beta launched.
Prices for items in the Zen Shop are quite simply outrageous. Forty dollars for an epic mount? Thirty dollars for a mid-level companion? Six dollars to respec one’s character? There is absolutely no excuse for such prices to be foisted on a community that would doubtless be willing to pay for items more reasonably priced.
Finally a review called out the prices. This is exactly what everyone's been saying so I hope Cryptic finally says something about the price. It really is the biggest thing holding back this game.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
Lol I see the mmorpg.com staffers have shown up in force :rolleyes:
I'm not a staffer, but generally agreed with the review. Especially the cash shop statements, but it's not a no-go for me on that point; just a personal preference and dictates what I will and won't spend money on.
I'd personally rate it a little lower because the author actually showed it in a better light than I would have on a few points. Like basic companion controls (there are none), character customization (much worse than Cryptic's other games) and level of polish (I'm not sure how you can give it a 7 for the exploits we've had, as well as the amount of broken feats which affect every class but the TR from what I can see).
Don't get me wrong, I lambasted the developer's handling of the UGC (which really has gotten me to the point of not logging in when I could, because there's something on netflix more interesting) - but basically, while it's a little "cheery" for my tastes, it's not per se badly written or incorrect from the author's point of view.
Reviews are false when they incorrectly portray something either positively or negatively. I didn't per se see that in this article, considering that people are different.
i woulda given this game a 6-6.5 score. it's just unsatisfactory. There are games where you can tell the dev's put their time and effort into the game. There are also games with good communities and good support. This game is neither of any. I honestly think this is just a game used to scam ppl into buying the overpriced things, then realizing 2 weeks later they can't do anything with their items in this game's end game, and quitting.
Lol I see the mmorpg.com staffers have shown up in force :rolleyes:
Yes, you could be a conspiracy theorist and pretend that the people who agree with the article are MMORPG staff. But by that same logic, the people who disagree with it are Cryptic/PW staff. So you can pretend that everyone posting in this thread is staff of either MMORPG or Cryptic/PW, or you can be rational and realize that we are all regular players sharing our opinions about the review.
How about we worry less about arguing, and instead just give our opinions about the game and whether we agree with the various issues brought up within the review?
Remember, it's okay to not like things, but that doesn't mean you have to fight with people who disagree.
MMORPG.com has, in my honest opinion, been very good at giving games a fair shake. I agree with the Longevity part of the article the most. Thanks for the info OP.
Why would you review an OPEN BETA game? I have never heard of a game reviewer bothering to review a beta product... /shrug
Because it's just a label the developers are choosing to use (improperly). That doesn't make it reality, and it doesn't mean the press is going to play along with Cryptic's marketing stunt. If PW/Cryptic starts labeling all patch updates as "expansions", within a year's time can they start making press releases about having released 52 expansion packs for Neverwinter in a year? Their game, their labels.. right?
I think they gave the game as it is now a pretty fair review, though I think they could give the devs a little more credit for addressing major exploits quickly and having good communication about it.
I also think they made very good points about the longevity of the game, saying this:
Neverwinter will only succeed on a long term basis if several things happen:
Neverwinter will only succeed on a long term basis if several things happen:
•More endgame content in the form of dungeons, quests, etc.
•More character classes added at a rapid, not sluggish, pace.
•More PvP content. This is critical. More types, more maps, more variety, bigger teams, etc.
•More tools and abilities for Foundry builders.
•Better Zen Market prices. Again, this is critical.
Great review of the review. I think both of you got the critique right on point.
The article is well-written and has good points all around.
I'd like to see another review once Module 1 is put out. Or after Cryptic decides to start calling it "Live" themselves to see what differences there are.
Regarding the beta debate, think of it like Minecraft. Minecraft was released to the public on May 17, 2009, as a developmental "alpha" release. The game was sold in this state, and was quite popular as you all know. Reviews were put out, positive press received, no one complained about it being in "alpha". Minecraft entered its beta testing phase on December 20, 2010. They continued to charge money for it, in fact they raised the cost of the game. More reviews were done, it was very highly praised, and had reached cult status and beyond by this point. Mojang did not move the game out of beta and release the full version of the game until November 18, 2011, over 2 years after originally selling the game to the public. More reviews were done at this time, and Minecraft is pretty much a household name.
If the intention of "open beta" is to integrate player input while the game is still in its formative stage, I see it as a positive.
Dungeons & Dragons Online (that is, DDO) was in beta for 6 years. I really don't get why so many in this community make such a big deal of that. It is reffectively released. Get over it.
~*~ Sparkles! ~*~
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
I like the concept of "Open Beta". The formative stage of any project is vital. Opening it up for as much input and from as many points of view as possible, is a good idea. It makes a more robust game in the long run. There are many players who are already finding enjoyment, even at its early stages, and knowingly spend money on it because they enjoy it. Great. This is good for everyone.
The review explained why they did a review for the Neverwinter game despite being in Beta. In their minds, taking money from customers defines when a game hits the market. Fair enough. I have no problem with this criterion and the clear explanation for it.
I look at open beta from a design perspective. The review looks at it from an economic perspective. Both points of view seem valid to me.
I feel as though the Zen shop prices, while a little high are not outrageous. They're only outrageous if you are the type of player who has to have everything.
Let's look at it this way: in order to get the consensus best companion from the zen store, as well as cap out your best bags. you need to have 2,000 + 4,000 = 6,000 Zen. Nothing else in the zen store is highly beneficial (except perhaps the healing stones but I've never felt the need to use one).
6,000 Zen is $60. That's the price of a box game these days.
I agree that bagspace and a decent companion are the prime candidates for the zen store, but that's $60 per character though, right?
"Duct tape is like the force; it has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together."
I like the concept of "Open Beta". The formative stage of any project is vital. Opening it up for as much input and from as many points of view as possible, is a good idea. It makes a more robust game in the long run. There are many players who are already finding enjoyment, even at its early stages, and knowingly spend money on it because they enjoy it. Great. This is good for everyone.
The review explained why they did a review for the Neverwinter game despite being in Beta. In their minds, taking money from customers defines when a game hits the market. Fair enough. I have no problem with this criterion and the clear explanation for it.
I look at open beta from a design perspective. The review looks at it from an economic perspective. Both points of view seem valid to me.
One of the most common sense and well thought out posts I've seen in this whole thread. I agree with all of that and the review. Thats looking at the bigger picture.
I agree that bagspace and a decent companion are the prime candidates for the zen store, but that's $60 per character though, right?
Indeed it is. Also, paying the $60 box price generally gets you bags, companions and everything else the game has to offer.
The only thing in the zen store that is reasonably priced is the $5 for 2 character slots. There might be a couple more but most items are vastly overpriced, and at least 1 item had no business being there at all (looking at you re-specs).
Hopefully more reviews come out that mention the cash shops ludicrous pricing, put some pressure on PWE/Cryptic to at least discuss it, as it stands now they have completely ignored all mention of it.
I feel as though the Zen shop prices, while a little high are not outrageous. They're only outrageous if you are the type of player who has to have everything. Lets look at it this way, in order to get the consensus best companion from the zen store, as well as cap out your best bags you need to have 2,000+4,000 = 6,000 Zen, nothing else in the zen store is highly beneficial(except perhaps the healing stones but I've never felt the need to use one.) 6,000 Zen is $60. That's the price of a box game these days. But beyond that at current average conversion rate its 2.1 million AD. 2.1 million AD seems like a lot but its only about 3 months of farming max AD(and considering the fact that you can get AD much faster by playing the AH its not even that much time.) 3 months to get everything you absolutely need from the zen market, doesn't seem so bad over the course of a game.
So, 40$ worth of bags per character is outrageous. Unless you just play 1 character I guess.
"The sum of the whole is this: walk and be happy; walk and be healthy. The best way to lengthen out our days is to walk steadily and with a purpose." -Charles Dickens
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lowsiderMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I particularly agree (and I'm sure many others do as well) that the Zen prices right now are a bit crazy. I do not mind a cash shop in a game, and as you can tell by my founder status, I'm not shy about spending a bit of cash on games I enjoy, even F2P ones, but the prices are just too high for everything. If PWE were to cut their prices in half on everything it would almost guarantee more sales and increased revenue for the game. I love recommending Neverwinter to my friends to try out, but I'm a little embarrassed that I have to caution them about the cash shop while I'm doing it, so they don't get sticker shocked when they first encounter it themselves.
somehow I feel PWE a bit "paranoia" about this. they put some items on item-cash-only but they don't want to be seen as P2W so they put a Ex-changer for AD, which can be gather quite easy, to Zen. but, this also take effect on items prices, if they put the prices too low, people will start think more AD gather to exchange it for Zen than buying the Zen itself, so they put high price, not too high, so the people still buy Zen but AD-gatherer still feel they able to achieve it via ex-changer
I think this is a valid question: putting aside the actual "score" the reviewer gave, do you disagree with what they actually said? If so, what and why? Be specific.
Review is correct.
Biggest proplem tis game has is PAY TO WIN.
I liked game...before i noticed its pay to win.
Pay to win...what exactly? I mean, maybe buying something in the game store will help you level faster, but even so what have you "won" by getting to max level faster than someone else? That just means you get to be bored sooner than the person who is still leveling.
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lanessar13Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, SilverstarsPosts: 8Arc User
I think this is a valid question: putting aside the actual "score" the reviewer gave, do you disagree with what they actually said? If so, what and why? Be specific.
Reposted from my reply on that site:
Hi Suzie, I agreed with your review for the most part. Zen shop prices and AD cost for basic functionality in the game certainly turns me off of doing certain things, but for the most part, it's all expediency and cosmetic rather than actual game-breaking insertion.
Several points you make really make me wonder whether we are playing the same game.
From our perspective, gameplay in Neverwinter is one of the shining gems in the entire game. Character customization is terrific.
Just playing cryptic's other two titles (STO and CO) sort of defy this statement. companions in this game get skins unlocked every 10 levels. In STO, you can totally change your companion's appearance with sliders, outfits, armor changes show on the companion's model.
The player's customization options are more on par for an MMO from 2003; sliders really don't make much of a difference, the visual options like hairstyle and make-up/tattoos and body types are pretty limited. Again, we can compare to Crpytic's other offerings, and STO alone blows the game out of the water. I suppose it might be a bit more palatable than GW2, but honestly, the models are better and there are a broader range of customization options in other games.
Dyes are single-use only, rather than "unlocked", and cost exhorbitant amounts. This segues into your later comments about the cash shop, but honestly, it impacts "customization options". You covered the outfits pretty well.
Additionally, while they did update the game to add power selection before going to OB, it's still a very poor selection process comparative to other offerings in the genre. Even a game from 2003 (in 2003) had more... difference in playstyle based on which feats/talents were chosen.
Speaking of companions, why is there no ability to control them in battle beyond stay, protect, or attack? It would be nice to have a better element of control over their behavior and attacks, choosing spells, for example.
"Beyond"? These don't even exist for Neverwinter. You have the option to summon or dismiss the companion, and that's about it. Was there an update last week that added this? Because it hasn't been present thus far. They auto-follow (unless they get caught up on geometry), and might attack the mob you attack if you're lucky. They rarely attack where needed, unless you use the man at arms or the galeb-duhr.
Polish - 7
Neverwinter is really a very polished game at its core. While there are bugs (aren't there always?), they are not game enders for the most part.
You contradict yourself in this statement. The polish cannot be a 7 with the exploits found every few days. Or, let's take the classes which exist, which contain busted feats which don't modify abilities as they should, or even do the complete reverse of what they should be doing. These exist for the DC, GWF, GF, and certainly the CW (which has a whopping 30% of the feats which don't work as stated in the tooltip). That isn't polished at the core. This isn't a minor "polishing point" to have 4/5 classes have major bugs which prevent you from using powers in divine mode as you'll buff the bad guys with damage resistance, or do 1/3rd the damage.
I like the game (or want to), but the Foundry was a major selling point for me. It was pretty well touted as "indistinguishable from normal content for rewards and interface". Due to exploits and knee-jerk patches from the devs, I'm seeing the Foundry content return 1/4th the XP gain from trying to level a character on Foundry content alone, along with terrible item drops from standard mobs. I'm not talking farming quests, but actual story-style quests with about as much combat as Cryptic's content. So, they are violating their own mission statement on UGC with no mention of fixes in the "State of the Game" post.
The UGC is what can eventually add to the longevity of the game, if done properly, not pumping out more end-game content, but allowing players to do the work for you by opening access to creating some amazing stuff. Doing dumb limiters instead of addressing the problem with industry standard solutions to this very problem seems kind of idiotic.
Pay to win...what exactly? I mean, maybe buying something in the game store will help you level faster, but even so what have you "won" by getting to max level faster than someone else? That just means you get to be bored sooner than the person who is still leveling.
all store items should be only cosmetic. no turning money to game money or buy best gear in game.
Comments
Ok it was a review of a "open beta" right get over it. Most of the reviews from other sites say it isnt an open beta if the company starts to take money from the player base. I agree with the reviews about this also. They needed cash to keep developing the game so they called this an open beta and started to take the cash needed to fix the game. I think this is true. If it wasnt true then the exploits in the closed beta would of been fixed before this open beta launched.
Finally a review called out the prices. This is exactly what everyone's been saying so I hope Cryptic finally says something about the price. It really is the biggest thing holding back this game.
I'm not a staffer, but generally agreed with the review. Especially the cash shop statements, but it's not a no-go for me on that point; just a personal preference and dictates what I will and won't spend money on.
I'd personally rate it a little lower because the author actually showed it in a better light than I would have on a few points. Like basic companion controls (there are none), character customization (much worse than Cryptic's other games) and level of polish (I'm not sure how you can give it a 7 for the exploits we've had, as well as the amount of broken feats which affect every class but the TR from what I can see).
Don't get me wrong, I lambasted the developer's handling of the UGC (which really has gotten me to the point of not logging in when I could, because there's something on netflix more interesting) - but basically, while it's a little "cheery" for my tastes, it's not per se badly written or incorrect from the author's point of view.
Reviews are false when they incorrectly portray something either positively or negatively. I didn't per se see that in this article, considering that people are different.
Yes, you could be a conspiracy theorist and pretend that the people who agree with the article are MMORPG staff. But by that same logic, the people who disagree with it are Cryptic/PW staff. So you can pretend that everyone posting in this thread is staff of either MMORPG or Cryptic/PW, or you can be rational and realize that we are all regular players sharing our opinions about the review.
Remember, it's okay to not like things, but that doesn't mean you have to fight with people who disagree.
Burninator of Wasabiburn, Maker of Dreamz, Breaker of Heartz
Hahaha. That's funny. You actually buy into that?
As for the review, I thought there were one or two areas that it was being a little kind on, but not bad otherwise.
Because it's just a label the developers are choosing to use (improperly). That doesn't make it reality, and it doesn't mean the press is going to play along with Cryptic's marketing stunt. If PW/Cryptic starts labeling all patch updates as "expansions", within a year's time can they start making press releases about having released 52 expansion packs for Neverwinter in a year? Their game, their labels.. right?
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/634/view/reviews/load/271
I think they gave the game as it is now a pretty fair review, though I think they could give the devs a little more credit for addressing major exploits quickly and having good communication about it.
I also think they made very good points about the longevity of the game, saying this:
Neverwinter will only succeed on a long term basis if several things happen:
Neverwinter will only succeed on a long term basis if several things happen:
•More endgame content in the form of dungeons, quests, etc.
•More character classes added at a rapid, not sluggish, pace.
•More PvP content. This is critical. More types, more maps, more variety, bigger teams, etc.
•More tools and abilities for Foundry builders.
•Better Zen Market prices. Again, this is critical.
Great review of the review. I think both of you got the critique right on point.
The MMO may change but the inventory tetris stays the same.
The review explained why they did a review for the Neverwinter game despite being in Beta. In their minds, taking money from customers defines when a game hits the market. Fair enough. I have no problem with this criterion and the clear explanation for it.
I look at open beta from a design perspective. The review looks at it from an economic perspective. Both points of view seem valid to me.
I agree that bagspace and a decent companion are the prime candidates for the zen store, but that's $60 per character though, right?
One of the most common sense and well thought out posts I've seen in this whole thread. I agree with all of that and the review. Thats looking at the bigger picture.
Indeed it is. Also, paying the $60 box price generally gets you bags, companions and everything else the game has to offer.
The only thing in the zen store that is reasonably priced is the $5 for 2 character slots. There might be a couple more but most items are vastly overpriced, and at least 1 item had no business being there at all (looking at you re-specs).
Hopefully more reviews come out that mention the cash shops ludicrous pricing, put some pressure on PWE/Cryptic to at least discuss it, as it stands now they have completely ignored all mention of it.
Exactly. Only issue right now, and the thing keeping me from buying them is being only for the one character at that price.
So, 40$ worth of bags per character is outrageous. Unless you just play 1 character I guess.
LOL, that's exactly how I interpreted it.
somehow I feel PWE a bit "paranoia" about this. they put some items on item-cash-only but they don't want to be seen as P2W so they put a Ex-changer for AD, which can be gather quite easy, to Zen. but, this also take effect on items prices, if they put the prices too low, people will start think more AD gather to exchange it for Zen than buying the Zen itself, so they put high price, not too high, so the people still buy Zen but AD-gatherer still feel they able to achieve it via ex-changer
Quest Title: Don't "Count" on it - Ch. 1
Short Code: NW-DQ3H4MXKG
Duration: 15-20 minutes
DAILY FOUNDRY ELIGIBLE? Yes!
I will probably spring for an ioun stone at some point though.
Biggest proplem tis game has is PAY TO WIN.
I liked game...before i noticed its pay to win.
Pay to win...what exactly? I mean, maybe buying something in the game store will help you level faster, but even so what have you "won" by getting to max level faster than someone else? That just means you get to be bored sooner than the person who is still leveling.
Reposted from my reply on that site:
all store items should be only cosmetic. no turning money to game money or buy best gear in game.