lordofscornMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 18Arc User
edited May 2013
All I know is that before the patch I could hit shift at anytime and it responded right away and I went into block stance. I could charge into a group of mobs and hit shift right away to soak up their alpha strike, and then proceed as normal. Now, however, I charge in and hit shift and half the time it does nothing, and I have to hit and hold shift again two times or more before it even registers. It really does seem wonky.
TL;DR: I see it as a two-fold problem: 1) Possible keyboard issue. I would suggest testing with a different (more sensitive) keyboard - and I would say test with a half-second press/release of the key. Anything faster than that brings-up 2) There really IS "breakage" of the mechanic - in the case where the press/release/press cycle is less than a half-second - too fast for the cooldown to kick-in, but also too fast for the blocking mechanic to be maintained.
Nothing wrong with my keyboard. It works perfectly in any other game, most of which demand much faster reactions with keypresses. The issue for me is that if I press Shift after I use any attack with my guardian, I can't be sure that Block is up. Most of the time it isn't. This happens even if I haven't blocked at all for several minutes. So it can't be a cooldown.
Background: I play my guardian fighter a lot. It was my first toon and I didnt make another until it was 60 and epicced out. I'm a HotN founder, so I had that 5 days before everyone else deal. I did a lot of dungeons while leveling, and I did a lot of dungeons at 60 until I got sick of the Greed Needing and just went single-player alt style.
Now, and this is important to the subject, I've been on vacation for a few days so I missed the most recent patch. I'm home now, and read about GF block being broken, so I hop on to try.
It is most definitely not working as it used to.
*I would like someone with video editing and youtube to try to document this if they could*
As best I can describe it:
1) Press shift: block normally
2) Let go of shift and run a meter or so, press shift again (as one would do during a typical boss encounter to re-position out of a large AOE cone attack, but still block whatever adds are currently attacking you)
3) you will notice the shift does register, the player raises shield as if it wants to block, but it does not stick, the player then lowers shield and runs normal speed, all the while shift is STILL BEING HELD.
As I said, I've been gone a few days. I remember gameplay before this and THIS WAS NOT HOW IT WAS A WEEK AGO. I read a dev say in another post how this is just how shift button things work, with internal cooldowns.
It has not been the way since I started playing a GF in beta weekend 1 and it most certainly has not been this way before I played it today.
Similar SHIFT related problems happening with the GWF. Half the time I sprint for half a second then I'm running normal speed, eats up half of my endurance too.
Someone makes a badly thought out and dismissive post. ---> People call him out on it.
Don't call James Randi yet.
I'm not claiming a conspiracy, just that intentional or not. The outcome was as I said, folks were snappy and now at least panderus has stated he won't be replying futher. People walked into that.
Background: I play my guardian fighter a lot. It was my first toon and I didnt make another until it was 60 and epicced out. I'm a HotN founder, so I had that 5 days before everyone else deal. I did a lot of dungeons while leveling, and I did a lot of dungeons at 60 until I got sick of the Greed Needing and just went single-player alt style.
Now, and this is important to the subject, I've been on vacation for a few days so I missed the most recent patch. I'm home now, and read about GF block being broken, so I hop on to try.
It is most definitely not working as it used to.
*I would like someone with video editing and youtube to try to document this if they could*
As best I can describe it:
1) Press shift: block normally
2) Let go of shift and run a meter or so, press shift again (as one would do during a typical boss encounter to re-position out of a large AOE cone attack, but still block whatever adds are currently attacking you)
3) you will notice the shift does register, the player raises shield as if it wants to block, but it does not stick, the player then lowers shield and runs normal speed, all the while shift is STILL BEING HELD.
As I said, I've been gone a few days. I remember gameplay before this and THIS WAS NOT HOW IT WAS A WEEK AGO. I read a dev say in another post how this is just how shift button things work, with internal cooldowns.
It has not been the way since I started playing a GF in beta weekend 1 and it most certainly has not been this way before I played it today.
I made a video of the issue already, not with shift/release/shift - but with trying to block after using an encounter - which causes the same bug.
I'm playing as a Cleric, in PVP I can definately say others are experiencing your issue. I know this as they go from a calm creeping unstopable force, to a dog kicking in evasive action who's just pissed on the carpet, quicker than I can blink when I start hurting them pretty badly.
It's funny on my side of the fence when the WTF mad dash hits, but I can imagine this is a real pain in the *** for GWF.
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keshavexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
I would say that the community has confirmed both the changed state post-patch, and the insufficiency of the "cool down" answer. Blocking is broken, and not just in the shift-lift-shift scenario (which the Dev dismissed as a suboptimal playstyle [shakes head], but also in the shift-encounter-shift scenario.
Now the question is what they intend to do about it. We define ourselves by the actions that we take. This is a defining moment for Cryptic, I hope they exceed what appear to be pretty limited expectations from the community.
I'm not claiming a conspiracy, just that intentional or not. The outcome was as I said, folks were snappy and now at least panderus has stated he won't be replying futher. People walked into that.
Not for anything but perhaps it wasn't his place to say anything in the first place.
Community Managers (red names) are trained in what to say and how to say it.
In his defense he was probably trying to be helpful but he clearly had no clue what he was talking about. Especially when he came back the second time and said "there has not been any changes to the shift powers at all" which we all know is not the case.
"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."
I'm not quite sure this is a defining moment buddy. it's a pain but this isn't exactly life and death for the whole game. Hell most people say GF and GWF are pretty much undesirable anyway in later levels compared to casters and healers... Needs sorting sure but yeah, easy on tiger.
ok so if he claims it has a cd now then make it an encounter skill lol
second after the numerous feats that are broken with gf and now this + agro issues the class is becoming a bit <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> i still love playing it but honestly if nothing gets done i think its time to move on this game has far to many exploits and bugs to continue. They have the worst priority list known to man ie rather fix gateway issues then exploits.. oh well was fun while it lasted.
Thank you for ur response panderus but from that the only thing i was able to take away was the fact you thing nothing is wrong there for nothing will be done.
I'm not claiming a conspiracy, just that intentional or not. The outcome was as I said, folks were snappy and now at least panderus has stated he won't be replying futher. People walked into that.
I wasn't talking about a conspiracy. I was jokingly pointing out that if you claim clairvoyance for predicting the outcome, it might be too early to take the JREF Paranormal Challenge, since the outcome was fairly obvious from the first post by panderus. It's obvious from the other POV too.
An analogy:
Imagine you're renting an apartment with a parking spot included. A construction company is renovating the building, and one day when you come home from work, the construction crew has dumped piles of concrete barrier blocks and miscellaneous equipment on the parking lot, making it impossible for the residents to park. So, you call the company, and the guy on the phone starts going on about how "concrete barriers are meant to restrict and direct traffic, and that's how it's supposed to work". And when you press him, he goes "I'm sure you're just imagining that stuff, but I see if we can send someone next week, if not, maybe next month!"
Wouldn't you be slightly miffed?
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immeralisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
All of this is great and we love to argue over moot points. Question is: is it going to be fixed?
All of this is great and we love to argue over moot points. Question is: is it going to be fixed?
Quick answer: Don't hold your breath.
"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
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immeralisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
So the class I want to play is now <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? Lovely
"Beware the engineers of society, I say, who would make everyone in all the world equal. Opportunity should be equal, must be equal, but achievement must remain individual."
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
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keshavexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
I'm not quite sure this is a defining moment buddy. it's a pain but this isn't exactly life and death for the whole game. Hell most people say GF and GWF are pretty much undesirable anyway in later levels compared to casters and healers... Needs sorting sure but yeah, easy on tiger.
I'm not claiming it's life and death. I'm claiming that one class' defining mechanic is broken and how they respond to this is in fact defining of the company they are. It's not the end of the world, I've got other things I can do with my life. But if I'm going to stick around and pay them money (as I have been doing), I want to know who I'm dealing with and for me, this will provide the answer. Yes, it is a defining moment.
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keshavexMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
I should probably add that my view of Cryptic is highly influenced by my most recent experience with a dev team in Path of Exile. If you guys haven't played that, you won't believe the difference. It's heaven compared to most other game communities. The dev team communicate regularly with players, they update the game weekly, they post manifestos of their future intentions and where the game is going, and they most certainly have respect for their players. Not to mention the game is one of the best action games I've ever played (and would still be playing but my husband and I have maxed out on high level maps with multiple characters over many, many months and were jonesing for an MMO.
It's an interesting contrast to dealing with Cryptic. I'm not trying to slam Cryptic, I think they've done a good job of creating a very fun game that I would like to continue playing. But their posts in this thread are just baffling and, like I said, really stick out after all my dealings with Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile).
I should probably add that my view of Cryptic is highly influenced by my most recent experience with a dev team in Path of Exile. If you guys haven't played that, you won't believe the difference. It's heaven compared to most other game communities. The dev team communicate regularly with players, they update the game weekly, they post manifestos of their future intentions and where the game is going, and they most certainly have respect for their players. Not to mention the game is one of the best action games I've ever played (and would still be playing but my husband and I have maxed out on high level maps with multiple characters over many, many months and were jonesing for an MMO.
It's an interesting contrast to dealing with Cryptic. I'm not trying to slam Cryptic, I think they've done a good job of creating a very fun game that I would like to continue playing. But their posts in this thread are just baffling and, like I said, really stick out after all my dealings with Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile).
Cryptic: I haven't encountered this bug, or logged in on a character to test it out, clearly it's not a bug and just an interaction of the internal cool down on class alt abilities. working as intended. L2P
GGG: Oh? so HP is insanely too valuable as a stat in terms of stat weight? Desynch is an issue, and melee are completely and utterly garbage beyond x difficulty level?
Here's 4 more patches containing nothing but buffs to enemies, nerfs to character builds and items, and nothing of worth. But we'll get to the actual enjoyment killing aspects and deal with them "soon"
I'm as of today uninstalling PoE, they're beginning to look like whalers, pure and simple.
I wasn't talking about a conspiracy. I was jokingly pointing out that if you claim clairvoyance for predicting the outcome, it might be too early to take the JREF Paranormal Challenge, since the outcome was fairly obvious from the first post by panderus. It's obvious from the other POV too.
An analogy:
Imagine you're renting an apartment with a parking spot included. A construction company is renovating the building, and one day when you come home from work, the construction crew has dumped piles of concrete barrier blocks and miscellaneous equipment on the parking lot, making it impossible for the residents to park. So, you call the company, and the guy on the phone starts going on about how "concrete barriers are meant to restrict and direct traffic, and that's how it's supposed to work". And when you press him, he goes "I'm sure you're just imagining that stuff, but I see if we can send someone next week, if not, maybe next month!"
Wouldn't you be slightly miffed?
Ah, my apologies, was a bit of an odd reference xD
But yeah, it's kinda sad that we could tell where it was going to lead to....a stonewall.
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rapticorMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,078Arc User
edited May 2013
If it is a latency issue then that's pretty much a fail for something billed as action combat. I have already started playing a cleric due to the lack of 'need' for a GF in the end dungeons and this only makes it worse. I do still log on for the PvP dailies and it's really noticeable compared to how it used to play. Before I could depend on block working and now I can't. And it has nothing to do with my keyboard. If it was due to it being moved server side, and Cryptic decides not to move it back, I don't see how else it can be fixed and that leaves GFs dead in the water and even less people playing them.
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innateattrocityMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
its still broken, and the response about latency is just stupid. If you look at it as a real time combat game ( which it is ) you dont see something coming to attack you then actually debate and delay about raising your shield, you just do it to prevent taking damage.....
a good warrior only drops his guard to go on the offensive, which would mean, guard > attack > guard. Not gaurd> attack > think about guarding > get CCed > get CCed > get CCed > die.
no way on earth is this WAD, if it was designed this way then the devs obviously have absolutely no concept about tank classes and this game was doomed from the start..... i can see GFs are a dying breed already only to be extinct v v soon.
Also, I considered not posting to this thread at all with all the backlash I got. This will certainly be my last.
I hate to prove your point, but that's stupid. "Backlash" from a few very passionate individuals can not keep you from communicating with the playerbase.
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dahkohtlewMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Well if you guys really feel as though there is something beyond what I posted then we can look into it some. However I made the statement without researching further since there has not been any changes to the shift powers at all as far as I am aware. We have been saving those for the major content patch unless it was critical.
Also, I considered not posting to this thread at all with all the backlash I got. This will certainly be my last.
It is impossible to make the shift powers instant, without any sort of cooldowns, client side predict AND still not have any rubberbanding effects when the client is lagged whilst ignoring lag and not be exploitable. Some things must give to feel responsive in more cases and still live in the world where lag and exploits could exist.
What I dont understand is why you are getting pissed at customers for noticing a significant change in your game. You reply as if we are asking you to implement this without us ever actually playing the game, like our wishlist of how we hope the GF works. But see heres the thing. That was how GF worked. And now they dont. And you are here acting like we are asking for some insane impossibility when infact you guys already had it right and now its wrong.
I promise you a simple "We see the problem that was mistakenly created during the last patch effecting GF block mechanic, and we are working on it." would have worked much more than your first post. Your second post however was too much as you are making it sound like we are crazy for what is being said.
This is really all you need to read of this genius' post to know the value of his opinions lol.
if he actually bothered to read the Path of Exile development manifesto FORUM SECTION (think about that), he would understand the design trade offs GGG made that led to the de-synch issue and their deliberations about how best to deal with it. Yes, HP stacking is a problem and they also discuss their thoughts about how to address that and the lack of node diversity by changes to the passive tree (one very efficient design idea is to combine HP into some of the less used, even tho desirable, nodes).
The lead Dev (Chris) plays the game, posts in the forum, and is very sharp and respectful of hs player base. I mean, think about it, an entire forum section with multiple threads written by devs about what they are working on and how they are evolving the game and dealing with issues as they arise. Can you imagine that here?
All that plus a fantastic game, and downtime of less than one minute whenever they patch or do maintenance. And not one p2win element in their cash shop.
This game is fun and PoE is NOT an MMO so i am here now, but make no mistake about the world of difference between these two development teams. Not even close.
"Men do not stop playing because they grow old. They grow old because they stop playing." -- Oliver Wendell Holmes
Nothing wrong with my keyboard. It works perfectly in any other game, most of which demand much faster reactions with keypresses. The issue for me is that if I press Shift after I use any attack with my guardian, I can't be sure that Block is up. Most of the time it isn't. This happens even if I haven't blocked at all for several minutes. So it can't be a cooldown.
That's fair. I was just trying to be as helpful as I can while also providing a scenario for the devs to look into. In short: the "breakage" is not a figment, it's the real deal.
Comments
Nothing wrong with my keyboard. It works perfectly in any other game, most of which demand much faster reactions with keypresses. The issue for me is that if I press Shift after I use any attack with my guardian, I can't be sure that Block is up. Most of the time it isn't. This happens even if I haven't blocked at all for several minutes. So it can't be a cooldown.
Yeah...
Someone makes a badly thought out and dismissive post. ---> People call him out on it.
Don't call James Randi yet.
Now, and this is important to the subject, I've been on vacation for a few days so I missed the most recent patch. I'm home now, and read about GF block being broken, so I hop on to try.
It is most definitely not working as it used to.
*I would like someone with video editing and youtube to try to document this if they could*
As best I can describe it:
1) Press shift: block normally
2) Let go of shift and run a meter or so, press shift again (as one would do during a typical boss encounter to re-position out of a large AOE cone attack, but still block whatever adds are currently attacking you)
3) you will notice the shift does register, the player raises shield as if it wants to block, but it does not stick, the player then lowers shield and runs normal speed, all the while shift is STILL BEING HELD.
As I said, I've been gone a few days. I remember gameplay before this and THIS WAS NOT HOW IT WAS A WEEK AGO. I read a dev say in another post how this is just how shift button things work, with internal cooldowns.
It has not been the way since I started playing a GF in beta weekend 1 and it most certainly has not been this way before I played it today.
I'm not claiming a conspiracy, just that intentional or not. The outcome was as I said, folks were snappy and now at least panderus has stated he won't be replying futher. People walked into that.
I made a video of the issue already, not with shift/release/shift - but with trying to block after using an encounter - which causes the same bug.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ_gMsL8KHU&feature=youtu.be
It's funny on my side of the fence when the WTF mad dash hits, but I can imagine this is a real pain in the *** for GWF.
Now the question is what they intend to do about it. We define ourselves by the actions that we take. This is a defining moment for Cryptic, I hope they exceed what appear to be pretty limited expectations from the community.
Not for anything but perhaps it wasn't his place to say anything in the first place.
Community Managers (red names) are trained in what to say and how to say it.
In his defense he was probably trying to be helpful but he clearly had no clue what he was talking about. Especially when he came back the second time and said "there has not been any changes to the shift powers at all" which we all know is not the case.
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
second after the numerous feats that are broken with gf and now this + agro issues the class is becoming a bit <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> i still love playing it but honestly if nothing gets done i think its time to move on this game has far to many exploits and bugs to continue. They have the worst priority list known to man ie rather fix gateway issues then exploits.. oh well was fun while it lasted.
Thank you for ur response panderus but from that the only thing i was able to take away was the fact you thing nothing is wrong there for nothing will be done.
I wasn't talking about a conspiracy. I was jokingly pointing out that if you claim clairvoyance for predicting the outcome, it might be too early to take the JREF Paranormal Challenge, since the outcome was fairly obvious from the first post by panderus. It's obvious from the other POV too.
An analogy:
Imagine you're renting an apartment with a parking spot included. A construction company is renovating the building, and one day when you come home from work, the construction crew has dumped piles of concrete barrier blocks and miscellaneous equipment on the parking lot, making it impossible for the residents to park. So, you call the company, and the guy on the phone starts going on about how "concrete barriers are meant to restrict and direct traffic, and that's how it's supposed to work". And when you press him, he goes "I'm sure you're just imagining that stuff, but I see if we can send someone next week, if not, maybe next month!"
Wouldn't you be slightly miffed?
Quick answer: Don't hold your breath.
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
Imagine how much love a Protecting Paladin (( http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Paladin )) would have in groups.
- Drizzt Do'Urden
― R.A. Salvatore
I'm not claiming it's life and death. I'm claiming that one class' defining mechanic is broken and how they respond to this is in fact defining of the company they are. It's not the end of the world, I've got other things I can do with my life. But if I'm going to stick around and pay them money (as I have been doing), I want to know who I'm dealing with and for me, this will provide the answer. Yes, it is a defining moment.
It's an interesting contrast to dealing with Cryptic. I'm not trying to slam Cryptic, I think they've done a good job of creating a very fun game that I would like to continue playing. But their posts in this thread are just baffling and, like I said, really stick out after all my dealings with Grinding Gear Games (Path of Exile).
Cryptic: I haven't encountered this bug, or logged in on a character to test it out, clearly it's not a bug and just an interaction of the internal cool down on class alt abilities. working as intended. L2P
GGG: Oh? so HP is insanely too valuable as a stat in terms of stat weight? Desynch is an issue, and melee are completely and utterly garbage beyond x difficulty level?
Here's 4 more patches containing nothing but buffs to enemies, nerfs to character builds and items, and nothing of worth. But we'll get to the actual enjoyment killing aspects and deal with them "soon"
I'm as of today uninstalling PoE, they're beginning to look like whalers, pure and simple.
Ah, my apologies, was a bit of an odd reference xD
But yeah, it's kinda sad that we could tell where it was going to lead to....a stonewall.
a good warrior only drops his guard to go on the offensive, which would mean, guard > attack > guard. Not gaurd> attack > think about guarding > get CCed > get CCed > get CCed > die.
no way on earth is this WAD, if it was designed this way then the devs obviously have absolutely no concept about tank classes and this game was doomed from the start..... i can see GFs are a dying breed already only to be extinct v v soon.
Block had to give , it had to according to the dev that said nothing has changed , but it still had to give.
Need me to call a Waaaaaambulance for you? Feedback on what most think is a broken system is now considered backlash?
Boo hoo for you.
What I dont understand is why you are getting pissed at customers for noticing a significant change in your game. You reply as if we are asking you to implement this without us ever actually playing the game, like our wishlist of how we hope the GF works. But see heres the thing. That was how GF worked. And now they dont. And you are here acting like we are asking for some insane impossibility when infact you guys already had it right and now its wrong.
I promise you a simple "We see the problem that was mistakenly created during the last patch effecting GF block mechanic, and we are working on it." would have worked much more than your first post. Your second post however was too much as you are making it sound like we are crazy for what is being said.
This is really all you need to read of this genius' post to know the value of his opinions lol.
if he actually bothered to read the Path of Exile development manifesto FORUM SECTION (think about that), he would understand the design trade offs GGG made that led to the de-synch issue and their deliberations about how best to deal with it. Yes, HP stacking is a problem and they also discuss their thoughts about how to address that and the lack of node diversity by changes to the passive tree (one very efficient design idea is to combine HP into some of the less used, even tho desirable, nodes).
The lead Dev (Chris) plays the game, posts in the forum, and is very sharp and respectful of hs player base. I mean, think about it, an entire forum section with multiple threads written by devs about what they are working on and how they are evolving the game and dealing with issues as they arise. Can you imagine that here?
All that plus a fantastic game, and downtime of less than one minute whenever they patch or do maintenance. And not one p2win element in their cash shop.
This game is fun and PoE is NOT an MMO so i am here now, but make no mistake about the world of difference between these two development teams. Not even close.
That's fair. I was just trying to be as helpful as I can while also providing a scenario for the devs to look into. In short: the "breakage" is not a figment, it's the real deal.