Can't actually say how many wipe polls i have seen throughout my gaming "career".
It is a quite hard race between "wipe poll threads" and "witout a full wipe, this game will be dead in 3 weeks".
Frankly, the ratio from wipe poll threads to actual wipes is like 428 billion to 1.
The thread/ game is really dead in 3 weeks ratio is probalby somewhat the same (or even higher)
But still, this kind of threads grow like topsy as soon as anything happens. In every single game i have played so far.
Saddest thing are the 3. kind of threads which result of the wipe poll threads. The "Devs ignoring the majority of the community;remark to poll" thread.
For the love of god please understand one thing: The "pro wipe" part of the FORUM community is a tiny tiny tiny part of the actual playerbase. The devs don't ignore the majority. If anything, they ignore a minority.
It is somewhat sad to see the same thing happen in EVERY **** online game. Same thing repeating over and over again for over a decade now.
Cry babies are everywhere. Nothing new.
Lift me up.. Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
Let's refund the AD to people who bought them, not the people who worked hard for them.
If you are talking about your daily AD then fine. If you are talking about AD made on AH then guess what. The exploits are the reason you managed to make so much AD.
All those who spend money on a game in OPEN BETA - you accept a considerable risk that things will change in the game. Whilst you probably hope that these changes are minor, there is absolutely no guarantee that some may in fact be significant.
You have "invested" in a development level of a game. Not only as an unpaid tester, but as one who is prepared to spend money on a publicly stated unfinished product.
Your investment therefore is based on the competence level trust you have for the Company behind the game. This was the judgement you made - and continue to make with every shop purchase.
Effectively it is a gamble on a level of service that is bound to change. Bound to? Of course it will, this is Beta. Changes have already happened and more are sure to occur in this Development stage.
Looking at the proliferation of bugs, together with the significance of exploits to date, it would appear to have been a rash gamble. If this beta stage does not get a full wipe then the game's reputation will be significantly tainted, which as this industry knows all too well can have a serious and damaging impact on popularity.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
All those who spend money on a game in OPEN BETA - you accept a considerable risk that things will change in the game. Whilst you probably hope that these changes are minor, there is absolutely no guarantee that some will be significant.
You have "invested" in a development level of a game. Not only as an unpaid tester, but as one who is prepared to spend money on a publicly stated unfinished product.
Your investment therefore is based on the competence level trust you have for the Company behind the game. This was the judgement you made - and continue to make with every shop purchase.
Effectively it is a gamble on a level of service that is bound to change. Bound to? Of course it will, this is Beta. Changes have already happened and more are sure to occur in this Development stage.
Looking at the proliferation of bugs, together with the significance of exploits to date, it would appear to have been a rash gamble. If this beta stage does not get a full wipe then the game's reputation will be significantly tainted, which as this industry knows all too well can have a serious and damaging impact on popularity.
What you say would hold true if the company acted in a manner to protect those who invested. The action they have chosen to take is pretty universally considered a WTF moment in the gaming community as a whole.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
I support a full wipe for many reasons, but I think there should be some form of compensation as well.
Those who paid real life money should be reimbursed in Zen. Those who bought packs including head start time should have that as well, simply redo the "launch" after the wipe and give them their 5 days before anyone else can log in.
The Zen Market shouldn't function fully until the game is out of Beta... If you don't want to be refunding people for rollbacks or wipes, don't let them spend the money in the first place. Enough people get ticked off and it could be a Public Relations fiasco that *could* affect all future releases by your company.
Anyone who has invested their time to test your game should be compensated in some way after the game is fully launched.
IF this was a "Soft Launch" rather than an "Open Beta" as has been debated often, then your getting paid money for a service and your customer service should reflect that since its what pays your bills and feed your children.
While I'm here, I'm going to put in my two cents about what seems really outlandishly wonky with this game. Keep in mind, I haven't spent anything but time on this game, but I'd be willing to spend that time over again to help improve it. Even if I had spent money on Zen for this game, I'd still support a wipe as long as it were refunded in Zen to spend over again after the wipe.
*/Start Rant
The economy in general is stupidly inflated and worthless.
I think the AD conversion rate is insane anyway... whoever heard of carrying around 100,000,000 of something? I've played a few other MMO's and thought the prices were insanity when some things in the AH hit over 20,000! And 3 currencies?!? (Zen, AD, Gold)
How about you drop one and make your lives easier? Drop two zeroes off the end of everything AD in the game and combine AD and Gold into one currency. Simply make AD the next step up from Gold at a conversion of 100g to 1AD. Then have a 1,000,000 cap and dailies reward 10/20/30 etc. Plus, monster drops could eventually build into AD. Of course, the amount monsters dropped would have to be changed to match this adjustment... but that shouldn't be as hard as coding the adjustment itself.
I mean, brand new players to the game can't even buy anything off the AH until they've sold something on it or gotten to a level at which they can complete a few daily quests to earn some AD. Do you know how annoying that is? I mean, my first character was level 30 before I got anything to sell on the AH for more than a couple hundred AD...
I looked at level 35 gear for my character today too... 16,500 per piece and the only ways to earn it rather than buy it are dailies, events, and AH. If I wanted to buy a full set of gear at that price It would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 150,000 AD. To earn that much without using the AH, assuming that both Skirmishs for the 0/2 daily were done during a skirmish event and guessing approximately 1,000 AD from Invoking per day would mean that at level 30 it would take me 15 days to get enough AD to buy the set... and by that time my character wont need any of it.
I realize that is SUPPOSED to make me spend money on it. Buy Zen and sell it for AD... but it has the opposite effect. Just go without it until I out level it. It would make more sense to have it easier to get the gear you wanted/needed at your level as you gain levels. Then when you hit max level and have all that time invested in the character is when you dangle the hook so to speak. I just bought my first permanent mount for 5g and as long as I can upgrade it to be as fast as any other mount in the game, I have no reason to purchase any of the Zen mounts, ever.
The only reason I'm considering purchasing any Zen at all is to get more inventory space and have a companion that can go above level 15.
Another thing that is just dumb is the Identification Scrolls... Green quality items shouldn't require a scroll... if any at all, blue and above should. I mean, I haven't run out completely yet, so why even have them? Or better yet, why not just have the merchants provide an identification service? That removes the superfluous scrolls, frees up bag slots, and allows identification to remain in the game as a money sink.
I agree that it should take longer to amass wealth in game if you don't spend real life money on it. But it shouldn't be so bad that people stop playing because the economy is horrid.
There will always be people willing to spend real life money on shortcuts and cooler graphics versions of the same thing. Why make the important parts of the game required to make it fun cost money which in turn will drive off potential players?
Make inventory and bank space moderate so the casual player has enough space but anyone else would need to pay for more. There is nowhere near enough bank space as it is... it should start at roughly double what it currently does.
Have some way to train or upgrade companions and mounts to higher levels than they initially start out with.
Make it easier to get gear suited to your character and level during the 1-60 levelling climb.
Change the removal of enchants to cost TIME rather than AD, but you can spend AD to speed it up. (Like the way Professions work)
Bounty items should go into the Wealth tab inventory like the orbs/seals and Tarmalune Bars do.
Quest items should also have their own bag.
A class that is called a Guardian Fighter should be able to hold threat and defend a party as a tank should. It should not be a class that can be completely dispensed with at higher levels, no class should. How about if a percentage of all threat produced on the marked target also transferred to all nearby targets?
The "Mad Dragon" is really really dumb. The extra constantly respawning monsters are more dangerous than the dragon is... there is something wrong with that. Perhaps the extra monsters should stop spawning after a certain point in the dragon's health meter and it should change tactics and have to be tanked to finish it?
Basically, it boils down to a very simple statement. If you make the game fun to play, people will be more willing to spend money on the Status Symbol and Shortcut items in the Zen Market.
Right now, the game isn't very fun for a majority of players according to what I've read on the forums. In this thread alone, the poll states that roughly 65% of players who've read it support a full wipe. That is a two thirds majority and speaks to lots of things being wrong with the game.
IF this is STILL an OPEN BETA, wiping after a massive glitch or consecutive mass exploits is a given. If you don't plan on refunding Zen purchases for rollbacks and wipes during what is labelled an Open Beta, you either shouldn't take the money in the first place or there should be a disclaimer that states such every time you open the Zen Market. (I however think you should simply refund all real money Zen purchases and wipe the game)
For an MMO to survive, there has to be some sort of economic checks and balances in place prior to full launch and exploits that are reported should be handled as quickly as possible to prevent mass cheating. If an exploit starts to get too big, TAKE THE SERVER OFFLINE until you can figure out what is going on and fix it. That way, no one loses stuff to a rollback and exploiters don't get to amass outrageous amounts of stuff by cheating. It might hurt the wallet in the short term, but it will help fill it in the long term.
Stating this as an Open Beta means that hunting down exploits and cheats is the players' responsibility, but then you are supposed to report them and not repeat them anymore. The problem here is that real money has become involved. Exploiters have made money on Ebay and such. People who've spent real money in the Zen Market have to be reimbursed if there is a wipe... and might walk away anyway.Then there are the little people in between like me who haven't spent money on it or exploited it.
All things considered, refund the real money Zen purchases, take the small hit to the playerbase that would cause, wipe the servers, and reopen when the worst of the exploits and issues have been fixed. Then rebuild playerbase to more than it started at before the wipe because the game is better and more fun to play.
*/Stop Rant
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mungo112Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 25Arc User
edited May 2013
I could support this.
Full refund of ZEN, not real money.
Character bound XP boosts based on level and/or GS.
Proffesion resource pack based on rank.
Etc.. If possible
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scyfangMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 6Arc User
edited May 2013
Rant Start:
Really wanted to avoid the angry mob effect, but everyday I see the effects and read about additional exploits that appear to have have been around sense day one.
I have lost my faith that the economy can ever stabilize with out a full wipe.
I won't provide any details just in case, but feel it's important people have a clear understanding of whats happening in this world we are investing our time into.
Today I found all the information on the Dragon Egg exploit. This has sense been patched but after tons of profession items, and dragon eggs were cheated into existed and have spread through the system. When I try to look at way of properly obtain the eggs nothing can be found. It appears there is only the 1 quest, and the profession packs you buy with zen... No wonder the plays exploited it so much as soon as it was discovered.
AH exploit caused a 7 hours rollback, but does not fix all of the astral, and gold already spread through the economy.
Foundry exploit that allowed people to power level to 60 in under 6 hours. But more importantly and not mentioned as frequently is the foundry exploit that allowed players to kill hundreds of mobs with out any risk and loot more coin then could ever be obtained in the normal game world. Resulted in tons of Gold in the Market which does not appear to have ever been handled.
Endless looting of Chests, and Trade skill nodes by entering/exiting sub zones, of a quest dungeon. Again results in millions of resources, coin, and rune stones to flood the market.
All of these matters have been been patched, but is it to late.....
Overall it's just very depressing because it's such a good game. I know it is still labeled at open beta, or when that beta never ends what hope if there for it going live.
Rant over!
Minor suggests for content improvement:
I think Foundrys should have a way of incentivising puzzle type missions instead of just hack and slash with a 15 minute time requirement.
I think Foundrys should also have trade skill nodes, and chest objectives that can be hidden to make the hunt part of the adventure. This would need to be restricted by limiting how many can be in a mission, Length of the missions, and would have to have a restriction preventing them from be with in x yard of the entrance to prevent exploit farming.
Boss fights: Bosses need more mechanics and less adds. 90% all boss battles are just here have more add. Most pretty must require adds be knocked, or kited instead of actually fighting the targets... It does not lead to the most enjoyable time, and lead the boss itself feeling weak and unimportant.
Skirmishes: Make them viable and worth doing at 60. You build all these quick fun 15-30 minutes just to let them be left in the dust??? Also reduce the daily requirement... No one want to run skirmishes 4 times for one dailey turn on. Or split it into multiple turn in's per day.
And for those who may say - we where told there is no character wipe that is why we spent money in the shop - oh dear........ read the PWE Terms and Conditions that you agreed to - copied from their site below:
As a Beta tester, you are invited to play Beta Games for the sole purpose of evaluating the games and identifying errors. Nothing in these Terms, or on this Website, shall be construed as granting you any rights or privileges of any kind with respect to the Beta Games or content that you find here. The Beta Games are provided for testing on an "as is", "as available" basis and we make no warranty to you of any kind, express or implied. You understand and agree that playing Beta Games is at your own risk, that you know that the Beta Games may include known or unknown bugs, and that PWE has no obligations to you with respect to Beta Games, including without limitation any obligation to provide such games to you in the future at no charge.
When playing some Beta Games, you may accumulate treasure, experience points, equipment, or other value or status indicators within the Beta test. This data may be reset at any time during the testing process, and it may be reset when the particular game completes this testing phase. In this case, all player history and data will be erased and each player will return to novice status.
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
I've BETA tested countless MMOs, FPS and two RTS. I've contributed to helping direct the game and watched in several aspects how the company disregards their beta testers. A full wipe, at this juncture, would be required for game economy recovery. However, given Cryptics already botched past with Star Trek Online, its safe to assume they will leave it be. After all, if things cost more in game that means you'll be spending more real money to get somewhere than you otherwise would have had to have done.
Also like kristingrave stated, the game really has no replay value. Had they gone the route of making this a NWN MMO version (aka role play and actual DnD rulesets) then I could see this game going extremely far. I don't see this game going anywhere.
U knew it wasa bet andu put in money.are u crazy.What part of thatwasa good idea.So even ifu go to court first thing the lawer gonna ask u.
I can jsut imagine the questions?
Good day sir your name is?
Age?
how long you played video games?
how many open betas have you played in?
All those Open betas have bugs?
Did you spend money in all those open betas?
If u spent money would you say you got you moneys worth?
You would say you have a good understanding of open beta right?
What does the phrase open beta mean?
you blind?
You mental disable?
You have full use of all of your senses?
No one forced you to play or pay in that beta right?
So u didnt have to pay a dime to play in that open beta?
...........
So you understand then that paying money ina open beta game a some form of support?
So you would say its a donation right?
You would say you are a man who wants his money worth when u spend money right?
We in resession and times are hard moeny is tight right?
SO why would u invest money in a open beta game that You were fully aware of all the aspect and repcussion and you know you dont have a dime to waste?
What part of that was a good idea?
seem good at the time?
Do you know what a charge back is?
elaborate.
SO why would u make a a claim to charge back your money on the pretense that didnt get or you had no idea what you were buying?
I think u knew exacty whatu were investing into when u paid it and now u didnt like that decision so you want a do over.
Sry kid in rl their arent any do over.
When u screw up pay the price.
In your case the price was right.I rest my case.!!
Ineffective zodd, your typing skills are ineffective -.-
All that needs to be said is that someone agreed to the ToS and therein have no legal right towards characters, virtual currencies or services rendered from cash transactions.
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Ineffective zodd, your typing skills are ineffective -.-
All that needs to be said is that someone agreed to the ToS and therein have no legal right towards characters, virtual currencies or services rendered from cash transactions.
Exactly.Never spend money on virtual game cus company always havvea clause to protect them selves.also never spend money ona open beta.But if u do its only as support and any thing u get from it is just gratitude rom PW and cryptic for supporting them.This why the game will never be p2w cus the money is nota huge advantage is justa reward for donating
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ineffective zodd, your typing skills are ineffective -.-
All that needs to be said is that someone agreed to the ToS and therein have no legal right towards characters, virtual currencies or services rendered from cash transactions.
More important to know however is that a TOS is not legal or binding ...
This company has the game advertised as live by the publisher,and beta by the DEV..Also they do not answer customer tickets. The values posted for the founders packs in no way match what you see in the cash shop. Pick any one of the above and you are fine..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
More important to know however is that a TOS is not legal or binding ...
Oh but it is. Its a legal form that you are consenting towards, affirming and waving rights for the use of the product and services.
Its why I laugh at all these people who claim they will file a lawsuit.
More important to know however is that a TOS is not legal or binding ...
Once u havea account and a game install on you pc it is.So unistall and delete account.and iuf u do u still can try to charge cus techiqucallyu account never existed.
and if it did u are in tos.
I have spent over 200 USD on this game, which I personally believe is full of potential. I think it is sad that there are those whose sole purpose is to exploit everything they come into contact with, makes you wonder what those people are like in real life. Anyhow, I am in full favor of a full wipe, bring the game back to square one and start over with a clean slate. This really is a cool game in the wake of other mmo's that are out at this moment, believe me I have scoured the internet looking for something to grab my attention. I keep coming back to Neverwinter though, in spite of the drama that has plagued it in these past weeks. It is great to see the Dev team acting quickly on such issues and posting the on goings. That's my two cents though. Be blessed and lets try to have some fun in the midst of all of this. cya in game
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Reuters has reported on a court case where a Pennsylvania judge has ruled against Linden Labs that the Second Life's Terms of Service are not legally binding.
SECOND LIFE, May 31 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania judge has ruled that Linden Lab's terms of service for Second Life residents are not legally binding, according to court papers filed on Wednesday.
The ruling came in the case of Bragg v. Linden Research. Marc Bragg, a lawyer from West Chester, Pa., filed suit in 2006 claiming that Linden unfairly terminated his account, causing the loss of his virtual business venture. Linden filed motions to dismiss the suit and compel Bragg to arbitrate his claim out of court, consistent with Linden's Terms of Service.
Judge Eduardo Robreno ruled on May 30 that Linden's Terms of Service constitute a "contract of adhesion", allowing the suit to proceed.
"Linden presents the TOS on a take-it-or-leave-it basis," he wrote. "In effect, the TOS provide Linden with a variety of one-sided remedies to resolve disputes, while forcing its customers to arbitrate any disputes with Linden."
"The arbitration clause is not designed to provide Second Life participants an effective means of resolving disputes with Linden. Rather, it is a one-sided means which tilts unfairly, in almost all cases, in Linden's favor," Robreno added.
This is one example from 2006...TOS has been beaten to death up to this point.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
...............vote for your favourite expansion.......... "Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity". ..............not this one then.............
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Please refer to my post directly before the one I quoted here.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Reuters has reported on a court case where a Pennsylvania judge has ruled against Linden Labs that the Second Life's Terms of Service are not legally binding.
SECOND LIFE, May 31 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania judge has ruled that Linden Lab's terms of service for Second Life residents are not legally binding, according to court papers filed on Wednesday.
The ruling came in the case of Bragg v. Linden Research. Marc Bragg, a lawyer from West Chester, Pa., filed suit in 2006 claiming that Linden unfairly terminated his account, causing the loss of his virtual business venture. Linden filed motions to dismiss the suit and compel Bragg to arbitrate his claim out of court, consistent with Linden's Terms of Service.
Judge Eduardo Robreno ruled on May 30 that Linden's Terms of Service constitute a "contract of adhesion", allowing the suit to proceed.
"Linden presents the TOS on a take-it-or-leave-it basis," he wrote. "In effect, the TOS provide Linden with a variety of one-sided remedies to resolve disputes, while forcing its customers to arbitrate any disputes with Linden."
"The arbitration clause is not designed to provide Second Life participants an effective means of resolving disputes with Linden. Rather, it is a one-sided means which tilts unfairly, in almost all cases, in Linden's favor," Robreno added.
This is one example from 2006...TOS has been beaten to death up to this point.
Yeah, the old days of hiding a SERVICE INDUSTRY behind a smokescreen of a ToS agreement to keep people from filing lawsuits are coming to an end.
If you go to a restaurant and get bad food or service and ask for your money back, its basically the same thing. And most restaurant managers will immediately and without much question refund your money the first time this happens. Just don't expect to do it again without valid proof of the problem.
MMO's are a service industry just like any other and should be bound to the same laws and expectations.
i have seen full wipes from other open betas so they can do it if they want. if 2/3 of players wants a full wipe while half of the other 1/3 are the exploiters then you must hear the community
Really wanted to avoid the angry mob effect, but everyday I see the effects and read about additional exploits that appear to have have been around sense day one.
I have lost my faith that the economy can ever stabilize with out a full wipe.
I won't provide any details just in case, but feel it's important people have a clear understanding of whats happening in this world we are investing our time into.
Today I found all the information on the Dragon Egg exploit. This has sense been patched but after tons of profession items, and dragon eggs were cheated into existed and have spread through the system. When I try to look at way of properly obtain the eggs nothing can be found. It appears there is only the 1 quest, and the profession packs you buy with zen... No wonder the plays exploited it so much as soon as it was discovered.
AH exploit caused a 7 hours rollback, but does not fix all of the astral, and gold already spread through the economy.
Foundry exploit that allowed people to power level to 60 in under 6 hours. But more importantly and not mentioned as frequently is the foundry exploit that allowed players to kill hundreds of mobs with out any risk and loot more coin then could ever be obtained in the normal game world. Resulted in tons of Gold in the Market which does not appear to have ever been handled.
Endless looting of Chests, and Trade skill nodes by entering/exiting sub zones, of a quest dungeon. Again results in millions of resources, coin, and rune stones to flood the market.
All of these matters have been been patched, but is it to late.....
Overall it's just very depressing because it's such a good game. I know it is still labeled at open beta, or when that beta never ends what hope if there for it going live.
Rant over!
Minor suggests for content improvement:
I think Foundrys should have a way of incentivising puzzle type missions instead of just hack and slash with a 15 minute time requirement.
I think Foundrys should also have trade skill nodes, and chest objectives that can be hidden to make the hunt part of the adventure. This would need to be restricted by limiting how many can be in a mission, Length of the missions, and would have to have a restriction preventing them from be with in x yard of the entrance to prevent exploit farming.
Boss fights: Bosses need more mechanics and less adds. 90% all boss battles are just here have more add. Most pretty must require adds be knocked, or kited instead of actually fighting the targets... It does not lead to the most enjoyable time, and lead the boss itself feeling weak and unimportant.
Skirmishes: Make them viable and worth doing at 60. You build all these quick fun 15-30 minutes just to let them be left in the dust??? Also reduce the daily requirement... No one want to run skirmishes 4 times for one dailey turn on. Or split it into multiple turn in's per day.
You don't know what inflation is. 20,000 isn't insane in this game when level 60 dailies can give upwards to 8,000 just for one daily. You have multiple dailies that provide thousands of astral diamonds. You can pray for over 1,000 astral diamonds a day. It's not hard to get 24,000 astral diamonds total in this manner. Low level gear is expensive and not because of exploits or inflation it's because of supply/demand. You realize low level gear costs more than high level gear? It's simple. Leveling is very quick in this game, most people do not bother to put gear up on the auction house. The low levels fly so quickly that the few who have gear up have got to set the market for it. There's very low supply and there is "some demand." I have never bought low level gear on any of my characters from the AH.
Check level 60 gear. Epics cost as little as 4,000 astral diamonds which is far lower than the cost you quoted for higher level gear. Enchants, gear, etc are affordable except for the top level enchants which are expensive due to the time, effort, and resources it takes to craft said gear. You can grab six entry level epics at 60 for as little as 20,000 diamonds. There is no deflation, in fact astral diamonds have continuously become more valuable with time. You can't go "Oh! One mmo 100 gold is a lot but in this one people have 8,000 so the economy is destroyed." In said mmo's you might get 1 gold for a dungeon quest whereas in this one you get 8,000 AD from a single daily.
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mego9500Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 22Arc User
i have seen full wipes from other open betas so they can do it if they want. if 2/3 of players wants a full wipe while half of the other 1/3 are the exploiters then you must hear the community
please make this sticky
Rofl. Have some of you even thought about the LEGITIMATE players who don't want all of their work wiped? Like myself actually. Speak for yourself from now on when you start crying for wipes, because I sure as hell don't want any. I worked too **** hard for my things on my 60 GWF and I'm already at 30 on my DC. I don't even care if I got back my Zen I've spent, wouldn't repay all the time I have invested.
What game economy recovery? I keep on reading how its ruined in countless posts. People cant seem to comprehend one thing: the only time when in game economy is beyond good and evil is when millions/ billions in game currency are worthless, forcing fresh players ether to cash shop or buy from gold selling sites in order to just play the game. When a new player has no means to ever get anything without immediate real money investment. Neverwinter wont reach this level of inflation for a long, long time, if ever.
Cheap items are good. Meaning regular players can afford them without donating a limb or two ( i mean time donation too), meaning stable pugs. Large part of purple items flooding the auction came from regular players doing normal dungeon runs. There are a lot of lvl 60 players, they do dungeon runs on daily basis. Meaning the auction would be flooded even without exploits. The moment exploiters are banned the economy will straight it self out and AD will redistribute, especially when new lvls/ gear is introduced. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
Someone reaching lvl 60 in few days dose not bother me, someone having a cat dose not bother me and it should not bother you ether. GF issue was attended to, the auction hose issue is being sorted right now. And no a full wipe will not fix anything, if anything it will cripple the player base, since a lot of casual players ( myself included ) and some not casual will quit. And if bugs are still present when wiping, it just start a new loop. And yes i know reasoning with forum warriors is useless but i wanted show there are other player options in this never ending whine feast.
Resorting to charge back will get you black listed by every major company in the long run companies don't like unreliable customers
PW takes Charge back very seriously they've been known to ban for charge back as well as possible notice of legal action so before you threaten with charge back think twice ...
I for one support a wipe this is still a Beta in most games Beta characters are wiped at the end of the beta or at least that's how most serious companies does it ......
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Rofl. Have some of you even thought about the LEGITIMATE players who don't want all of their work wiped? Like myself actually. Speak for yourself from now on when you start crying for wipes, because I sure as hell don't want any. I worked too **** hard for my things on my 60 GWF and I'm already at 30 on my DC. I don't even care if I got back my Zen I've spent, wouldn't repay all the time I have invested.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
i have seen full wipes from other open betas so they can do it if they want. if 2/3 of players wants a full wipe while half of the other 1/3 are the exploiters then you must hear the community
please make this sticky
What game has done a wipe on an open beta in the past few years? I've played well over 35 different mmo's and can't recall any that wiped on an open beta. That being said, I can't recall having played an mmo who claimed to have an open beta longer than a week.
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Resorting to charge back will get you black listed by every major company in the long run companies don't like unreliable customers
PW takes Charge back very seriously they've been known to ban for charge back as well as possible notice of legal action so before you threaten with charge back think twice ...
I for one support a wipe this is still a Beta in most games Beta characters are wiped at the end of the beta or at least that's how most serious companies does it ......
You are wrong on every single point you make here.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Comments
Cry babies are everywhere. Nothing new.
Lift me up..
Panda@kristingrave - CW - Dragon
Death@healxyou - DC - Dragon
If you are talking about your daily AD then fine. If you are talking about AD made on AH then guess what. The exploits are the reason you managed to make so much AD.
You have "invested" in a development level of a game. Not only as an unpaid tester, but as one who is prepared to spend money on a publicly stated unfinished product.
Your investment therefore is based on the competence level trust you have for the Company behind the game. This was the judgement you made - and continue to make with every shop purchase.
Effectively it is a gamble on a level of service that is bound to change. Bound to? Of course it will, this is Beta. Changes have already happened and more are sure to occur in this Development stage.
Looking at the proliferation of bugs, together with the significance of exploits to date, it would appear to have been a rash gamble. If this beta stage does not get a full wipe then the game's reputation will be significantly tainted, which as this industry knows all too well can have a serious and damaging impact on popularity.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
What you say would hold true if the company acted in a manner to protect those who invested. The action they have chosen to take is pretty universally considered a WTF moment in the gaming community as a whole.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Those who paid real life money should be reimbursed in Zen. Those who bought packs including head start time should have that as well, simply redo the "launch" after the wipe and give them their 5 days before anyone else can log in.
The Zen Market shouldn't function fully until the game is out of Beta... If you don't want to be refunding people for rollbacks or wipes, don't let them spend the money in the first place. Enough people get ticked off and it could be a Public Relations fiasco that *could* affect all future releases by your company.
Anyone who has invested their time to test your game should be compensated in some way after the game is fully launched.
IF this was a "Soft Launch" rather than an "Open Beta" as has been debated often, then your getting paid money for a service and your customer service should reflect that since its what pays your bills and feed your children.
While I'm here, I'm going to put in my two cents about what seems really outlandishly wonky with this game. Keep in mind, I haven't spent anything but time on this game, but I'd be willing to spend that time over again to help improve it. Even if I had spent money on Zen for this game, I'd still support a wipe as long as it were refunded in Zen to spend over again after the wipe.
*/Start Rant
The economy in general is stupidly inflated and worthless.
I think the AD conversion rate is insane anyway... whoever heard of carrying around 100,000,000 of something? I've played a few other MMO's and thought the prices were insanity when some things in the AH hit over 20,000! And 3 currencies?!? (Zen, AD, Gold)
How about you drop one and make your lives easier? Drop two zeroes off the end of everything AD in the game and combine AD and Gold into one currency. Simply make AD the next step up from Gold at a conversion of 100g to 1AD. Then have a 1,000,000 cap and dailies reward 10/20/30 etc. Plus, monster drops could eventually build into AD. Of course, the amount monsters dropped would have to be changed to match this adjustment... but that shouldn't be as hard as coding the adjustment itself.
I mean, brand new players to the game can't even buy anything off the AH until they've sold something on it or gotten to a level at which they can complete a few daily quests to earn some AD. Do you know how annoying that is? I mean, my first character was level 30 before I got anything to sell on the AH for more than a couple hundred AD...
I looked at level 35 gear for my character today too... 16,500 per piece and the only ways to earn it rather than buy it are dailies, events, and AH. If I wanted to buy a full set of gear at that price It would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 150,000 AD. To earn that much without using the AH, assuming that both Skirmishs for the 0/2 daily were done during a skirmish event and guessing approximately 1,000 AD from Invoking per day would mean that at level 30 it would take me 15 days to get enough AD to buy the set... and by that time my character wont need any of it.
I realize that is SUPPOSED to make me spend money on it. Buy Zen and sell it for AD... but it has the opposite effect. Just go without it until I out level it. It would make more sense to have it easier to get the gear you wanted/needed at your level as you gain levels. Then when you hit max level and have all that time invested in the character is when you dangle the hook so to speak. I just bought my first permanent mount for 5g and as long as I can upgrade it to be as fast as any other mount in the game, I have no reason to purchase any of the Zen mounts, ever.
The only reason I'm considering purchasing any Zen at all is to get more inventory space and have a companion that can go above level 15.
Another thing that is just dumb is the Identification Scrolls... Green quality items shouldn't require a scroll... if any at all, blue and above should. I mean, I haven't run out completely yet, so why even have them? Or better yet, why not just have the merchants provide an identification service? That removes the superfluous scrolls, frees up bag slots, and allows identification to remain in the game as a money sink.
I agree that it should take longer to amass wealth in game if you don't spend real life money on it. But it shouldn't be so bad that people stop playing because the economy is horrid.
There will always be people willing to spend real life money on shortcuts and cooler graphics versions of the same thing. Why make the important parts of the game required to make it fun cost money which in turn will drive off potential players?
Make inventory and bank space moderate so the casual player has enough space but anyone else would need to pay for more. There is nowhere near enough bank space as it is... it should start at roughly double what it currently does.
Have some way to train or upgrade companions and mounts to higher levels than they initially start out with.
Make it easier to get gear suited to your character and level during the 1-60 levelling climb.
Change the removal of enchants to cost TIME rather than AD, but you can spend AD to speed it up. (Like the way Professions work)
Bounty items should go into the Wealth tab inventory like the orbs/seals and Tarmalune Bars do.
Quest items should also have their own bag.
A class that is called a Guardian Fighter should be able to hold threat and defend a party as a tank should. It should not be a class that can be completely dispensed with at higher levels, no class should. How about if a percentage of all threat produced on the marked target also transferred to all nearby targets?
The "Mad Dragon" is really really dumb. The extra constantly respawning monsters are more dangerous than the dragon is... there is something wrong with that. Perhaps the extra monsters should stop spawning after a certain point in the dragon's health meter and it should change tactics and have to be tanked to finish it?
Basically, it boils down to a very simple statement. If you make the game fun to play, people will be more willing to spend money on the Status Symbol and Shortcut items in the Zen Market.
Right now, the game isn't very fun for a majority of players according to what I've read on the forums. In this thread alone, the poll states that roughly 65% of players who've read it support a full wipe. That is a two thirds majority and speaks to lots of things being wrong with the game.
IF this is STILL an OPEN BETA, wiping after a massive glitch or consecutive mass exploits is a given. If you don't plan on refunding Zen purchases for rollbacks and wipes during what is labelled an Open Beta, you either shouldn't take the money in the first place or there should be a disclaimer that states such every time you open the Zen Market. (I however think you should simply refund all real money Zen purchases and wipe the game)
For an MMO to survive, there has to be some sort of economic checks and balances in place prior to full launch and exploits that are reported should be handled as quickly as possible to prevent mass cheating. If an exploit starts to get too big, TAKE THE SERVER OFFLINE until you can figure out what is going on and fix it. That way, no one loses stuff to a rollback and exploiters don't get to amass outrageous amounts of stuff by cheating. It might hurt the wallet in the short term, but it will help fill it in the long term.
Stating this as an Open Beta means that hunting down exploits and cheats is the players' responsibility, but then you are supposed to report them and not repeat them anymore. The problem here is that real money has become involved. Exploiters have made money on Ebay and such. People who've spent real money in the Zen Market have to be reimbursed if there is a wipe... and might walk away anyway.Then there are the little people in between like me who haven't spent money on it or exploited it.
All things considered, refund the real money Zen purchases, take the small hit to the playerbase that would cause, wipe the servers, and reopen when the worst of the exploits and issues have been fixed. Then rebuild playerbase to more than it started at before the wipe because the game is better and more fun to play.
*/Stop Rant
Full refund of ZEN, not real money.
Character bound XP boosts based on level and/or GS.
Proffesion resource pack based on rank.
Etc.. If possible
Really wanted to avoid the angry mob effect, but everyday I see the effects and read about additional exploits that appear to have have been around sense day one.
I have lost my faith that the economy can ever stabilize with out a full wipe.
I won't provide any details just in case, but feel it's important people have a clear understanding of whats happening in this world we are investing our time into.
Today I found all the information on the Dragon Egg exploit. This has sense been patched but after tons of profession items, and dragon eggs were cheated into existed and have spread through the system. When I try to look at way of properly obtain the eggs nothing can be found. It appears there is only the 1 quest, and the profession packs you buy with zen... No wonder the plays exploited it so much as soon as it was discovered.
AH exploit caused a 7 hours rollback, but does not fix all of the astral, and gold already spread through the economy.
Foundry exploit that allowed people to power level to 60 in under 6 hours. But more importantly and not mentioned as frequently is the foundry exploit that allowed players to kill hundreds of mobs with out any risk and loot more coin then could ever be obtained in the normal game world. Resulted in tons of Gold in the Market which does not appear to have ever been handled.
Endless looting of Chests, and Trade skill nodes by entering/exiting sub zones, of a quest dungeon. Again results in millions of resources, coin, and rune stones to flood the market.
All of these matters have been been patched, but is it to late.....
Overall it's just very depressing because it's such a good game. I know it is still labeled at open beta, or when that beta never ends what hope if there for it going live.
Rant over!
Minor suggests for content improvement:
I think Foundrys should have a way of incentivising puzzle type missions instead of just hack and slash with a 15 minute time requirement.
I think Foundrys should also have trade skill nodes, and chest objectives that can be hidden to make the hunt part of the adventure. This would need to be restricted by limiting how many can be in a mission, Length of the missions, and would have to have a restriction preventing them from be with in x yard of the entrance to prevent exploit farming.
Boss fights: Bosses need more mechanics and less adds. 90% all boss battles are just here have more add. Most pretty must require adds be knocked, or kited instead of actually fighting the targets... It does not lead to the most enjoyable time, and lead the boss itself feeling weak and unimportant.
Skirmishes: Make them viable and worth doing at 60. You build all these quick fun 15-30 minutes just to let them be left in the dust??? Also reduce the daily requirement... No one want to run skirmishes 4 times for one dailey turn on. Or split it into multiple turn in's per day.
As a Beta tester, you are invited to play Beta Games for the sole purpose of evaluating the games and identifying errors. Nothing in these Terms, or on this Website, shall be construed as granting you any rights or privileges of any kind with respect to the Beta Games or content that you find here. The Beta Games are provided for testing on an "as is", "as available" basis and we make no warranty to you of any kind, express or implied. You understand and agree that playing Beta Games is at your own risk, that you know that the Beta Games may include known or unknown bugs, and that PWE has no obligations to you with respect to Beta Games, including without limitation any obligation to provide such games to you in the future at no charge.
When playing some Beta Games, you may accumulate treasure, experience points, equipment, or other value or status indicators within the Beta test. This data may be reset at any time during the testing process, and it may be reset when the particular game completes this testing phase. In this case, all player history and data will be erased and each player will return to novice status.
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Also like kristingrave stated, the game really has no replay value. Had they gone the route of making this a NWN MMO version (aka role play and actual DnD rulesets) then I could see this game going extremely far. I don't see this game going anywhere.
I can jsut imagine the questions?
Good day sir your name is?
Age?
how long you played video games?
how many open betas have you played in?
All those Open betas have bugs?
Did you spend money in all those open betas?
If u spent money would you say you got you moneys worth?
You would say you have a good understanding of open beta right?
What does the phrase open beta mean?
you blind?
You mental disable?
You have full use of all of your senses?
No one forced you to play or pay in that beta right?
So u didnt have to pay a dime to play in that open beta?
...........
So you understand then that paying money ina open beta game a some form of support?
So you would say its a donation right?
You would say you are a man who wants his money worth when u spend money right?
We in resession and times are hard moeny is tight right?
SO why would u invest money in a open beta game that You were fully aware of all the aspect and repcussion and you know you dont have a dime to waste?
What part of that was a good idea?
seem good at the time?
Do you know what a charge back is?
elaborate.
SO why would u make a a claim to charge back your money on the pretense that didnt get or you had no idea what you were buying?
I think u knew exacty whatu were investing into when u paid it and now u didnt like that decision so you want a do over.
Sry kid in rl their arent any do over.
When u screw up pay the price.
In your case the price was right.I rest my case.!!
reposting this cus its relavant to whats above.
All that needs to be said is that someone agreed to the ToS and therein have no legal right towards characters, virtual currencies or services rendered from cash transactions.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Exactly.Never spend money on virtual game cus company always havvea clause to protect them selves.also never spend money ona open beta.But if u do its only as support and any thing u get from it is just gratitude rom PW and cryptic for supporting them.This why the game will never be p2w cus the money is nota huge advantage is justa reward for donating
More important to know however is that a TOS is not legal or binding ...
This company has the game advertised as live by the publisher,and beta by the DEV..Also they do not answer customer tickets. The values posted for the founders packs in no way match what you see in the cash shop. Pick any one of the above and you are fine..
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Oh but it is. Its a legal form that you are consenting towards, affirming and waving rights for the use of the product and services.
Its why I laugh at all these people who claim they will file a lawsuit.
and if it did u are in tos.
SECOND LIFE, May 31 (Reuters) - A Pennsylvania judge has ruled that Linden Lab's terms of service for Second Life residents are not legally binding, according to court papers filed on Wednesday.
The ruling came in the case of Bragg v. Linden Research. Marc Bragg, a lawyer from West Chester, Pa., filed suit in 2006 claiming that Linden unfairly terminated his account, causing the loss of his virtual business venture. Linden filed motions to dismiss the suit and compel Bragg to arbitrate his claim out of court, consistent with Linden's Terms of Service.
Judge Eduardo Robreno ruled on May 30 that Linden's Terms of Service constitute a "contract of adhesion", allowing the suit to proceed.
"Linden presents the TOS on a take-it-or-leave-it basis," he wrote. "In effect, the TOS provide Linden with a variety of one-sided remedies to resolve disputes, while forcing its customers to arbitrate any disputes with Linden."
"The arbitration clause is not designed to provide Second Life participants an effective means of resolving disputes with Linden. Rather, it is a one-sided means which tilts unfairly, in almost all cases, in Linden's favor," Robreno added.
This is one example from 2006...TOS has been beaten to death up to this point.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
http://www.perfectworld.com/about/terms
"Mod 6. Oh my f****** god. It gutted the game pure and simple. And what wasn't gutted was messed up by the poorly thought out new level cap and equip. The game never recovered from that atrocity".
..............not this one then.............
Please refer to my post directly before the one I quoted here.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Yeah, the old days of hiding a SERVICE INDUSTRY behind a smokescreen of a ToS agreement to keep people from filing lawsuits are coming to an end.
If you go to a restaurant and get bad food or service and ask for your money back, its basically the same thing. And most restaurant managers will immediately and without much question refund your money the first time this happens. Just don't expect to do it again without valid proof of the problem.
MMO's are a service industry just like any other and should be bound to the same laws and expectations.
please make this sticky
You don't know what inflation is. 20,000 isn't insane in this game when level 60 dailies can give upwards to 8,000 just for one daily. You have multiple dailies that provide thousands of astral diamonds. You can pray for over 1,000 astral diamonds a day. It's not hard to get 24,000 astral diamonds total in this manner. Low level gear is expensive and not because of exploits or inflation it's because of supply/demand. You realize low level gear costs more than high level gear? It's simple. Leveling is very quick in this game, most people do not bother to put gear up on the auction house. The low levels fly so quickly that the few who have gear up have got to set the market for it. There's very low supply and there is "some demand." I have never bought low level gear on any of my characters from the AH.
Check level 60 gear. Epics cost as little as 4,000 astral diamonds which is far lower than the cost you quoted for higher level gear. Enchants, gear, etc are affordable except for the top level enchants which are expensive due to the time, effort, and resources it takes to craft said gear. You can grab six entry level epics at 60 for as little as 20,000 diamonds. There is no deflation, in fact astral diamonds have continuously become more valuable with time. You can't go "Oh! One mmo 100 gold is a lot but in this one people have 8,000 so the economy is destroyed." In said mmo's you might get 1 gold for a dungeon quest whereas in this one you get 8,000 AD from a single daily.
Rofl. Have some of you even thought about the LEGITIMATE players who don't want all of their work wiped? Like myself actually. Speak for yourself from now on when you start crying for wipes, because I sure as hell don't want any. I worked too **** hard for my things on my 60 GWF and I'm already at 30 on my DC. I don't even care if I got back my Zen I've spent, wouldn't repay all the time I have invested.
Cheap items are good. Meaning regular players can afford them without donating a limb or two ( i mean time donation too), meaning stable pugs. Large part of purple items flooding the auction came from regular players doing normal dungeon runs. There are a lot of lvl 60 players, they do dungeon runs on daily basis. Meaning the auction would be flooded even without exploits. The moment exploiters are banned the economy will straight it self out and AD will redistribute, especially when new lvls/ gear is introduced. Stop blowing things out of proportion.
Someone reaching lvl 60 in few days dose not bother me, someone having a cat dose not bother me and it should not bother you ether. GF issue was attended to, the auction hose issue is being sorted right now. And no a full wipe will not fix anything, if anything it will cripple the player base, since a lot of casual players ( myself included ) and some not casual will quit. And if bugs are still present when wiping, it just start a new loop. And yes i know reasoning with forum warriors is useless but i wanted show there are other player options in this never ending whine feast.
PW takes Charge back very seriously they've been known to ban for charge back as well as possible notice of legal action so before you threaten with charge back think twice ...
I for one support a wipe this is still a Beta in most games Beta characters are wiped at the end of the beta or at least that's how most serious companies does it ......
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
What game has done a wipe on an open beta in the past few years? I've played well over 35 different mmo's and can't recall any that wiped on an open beta. That being said, I can't recall having played an mmo who claimed to have an open beta longer than a week.
You are wrong on every single point you make here.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN