Overall, Neverwinter is designed to be 100% Free to Play, meaning that we want you to be able to enjoy the entire core experience and have a ton of fun without paying a dime. Please continue to let us know how close we are to achieving this goal!
Imo nothing wrong with the prices. Just don't be an entitlement tightwad. There's absolutely nothing in the store that's mandatory and it can be acquired via other means.
The ignorance...it buuuurnssss!
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
Really? So Respecing is optional and its a convenience? Its a core game mechanic. You really think everyone will get their build right the first time?
6USD to respec. 6 USD.
Please don't forget the 2 out of 3 trees in Guardian Fighter that are broken.
So how many times do those players get gouged before they choose conqueror?
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wynter91Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
To level set the conversation a bit, nothing is forcing me to pay for these perks, but nothing is enticing me to do so either. The prices are very aggressive considering the current F2P MMO market - they're more in line with the cost/benefit of shorter term games, a la Zynga.
The goal seems to be to set a higher price point for goods under the assumption that most people will not play for an extended career, which seems to me to be a poor goal to set for an MMO business model. I would be more likely to pay less incrementally and play through several characters over time than to invest a chunk up front for each of them.
Even if I were to pay ~$60 for all of the "endgame" benefits for a character, you can bet I would only do it once. Especially considering the relatively gentle slope and short time involved to hit 60.
Why design a MMO to be burned out on short-term in both a gameplay and a financial investment sense? And now you've painted yourselves into a corner by setting aggressive prices to start with - if you back down now, you'll anger the people who paid top dollar in beta unless you offer a serious carrot.
It's really unfortunate, this is a very enjoyable game that is going to be killed by a poor business model.
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flakelessMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I personally do not like the prices in the cash shop myself. However, I do wish to spend some money here and there as a treat. I think there would be much more success in the vanity cash shop if they lowered the prices of Zen, or upped the amount of Zen you get for your money.
I was also thinking, sales on items in the Zen Store could be a much better revenue. For example, people might splurge more on sales than when the prices are at the normal. (Look at Steam's summer sales, holiday sales, weekend sales, etc.) I've bought quite a few good games from Steam around those times; and sometimes it wasn't just -one- game.
To be honest, as a new player who just started today, i've done a little reading on the game as I was curious as to what to expect. After reading threads like this plus actually seeing the prices for myself (30$ for a companion? even blizz isnt that greedy) I am going to have to pass on this game. This is coming from a "whale" for f2p so to speak. I have easily spent over 800$ on my league account, 300$ on d3 and 100$ on WoT in the passed couple months. (league was over years) I think the outright money grab of this game has to be appalling. I don't mind spending my hard earned money on fun stuff in games like skins, mounts, companions, etc.. but what it is going to cost me 6$ just to respec I just cannot get behind something like that, heck on first sight I was even thinking of getting the 200$ game bundle but unfortuntely, sorry but I will be taking my money elseware. Best of luck with this game though.
Enchanted keys are easy to pass by until you get a Phoera. Then you're hooked.
While a lot of stuff in the Zen Store is overpriced, we are not paying for utilities, but for a luxury entertainment. A lot of my friends have reached level 60 and are good at PvP with no cent invested. I, am addicted to dye packs. Please, lower their prices!
To level set the conversation a bit, nothing is forcing me to pay for these perks, but nothing is enticing me to do so either. The prices are very aggressive considering the current F2P MMO market - they're more in line with the cost/benefit of shorter term games, a la Zynga.
The goal seems to be to set a higher price point for goods under the assumption that most people will not play for an extended career, which seems to me to be a poor goal to set for an MMO business model. I would be more likely to pay less incrementally and play through several characters over time than to invest a chunk up front for each of them.
Even if I were to pay ~$60 for all of the "endgame" benefits for a character, you can bet I would only do it once. Especially considering the relatively gentle slope and short time involved to hit 60.
Why design a MMO to be burned out on short-term in both a gameplay and a financial investment sense? And now you've painted yourselves into a corner by setting aggressive prices to start with - if you back down now, you'll anger the people who paid top dollar in beta unless you offer a serious carrot.
It's really unfortunate, this is a very enjoyable game that is going to be killed by a poor business model.
This is the best way I've seen this posted. It is kinda what I have been saying, although in a different way.
I've said it is because they are not confident in their product, and you say it better by saying that you upload goods for a quicker burnout.
There is a reason why the tortoise and the hare is a time-honored fable.
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mtgsusMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
To be honest, as a new player who just started today, i've done a little reading on the game as I was curious as to what to expect. After reading threads like this plus actually seeing the prices for myself (30$ for a companion? even blizz isnt that greedy) I am going to have to pass on this game. This is coming from a "whale" for f2p so to speak. I have easily spent over 800$ on my league account, 300$ on d3 and 100$ on WoT in the passed couple months. (league was over years) I think the outright money grab of this game has to be appalling. I don't mind spending my hard earned money on fun stuff in games like skins, mounts, companions, etc.. but what it is going to cost me 6$ just to respec I just cannot get behind something like that, heck on first sight I was even thinking of getting the 200$ game bundle but unfortuntely, sorry but I will be taking my money elseware. Best of luck with this game though.
This is exactly what PWE should be afraid of. If they lowered their prices to the equivalent of LoL or PoE, they would have ALOT more players. Also them charging for basic things such as respecs is just crazy. If they made respecs cost 1-5g and lowered prices on the Zen Store, I assume this game would have a very long and healthy life with a good playerbase.
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oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
everyone wants a sub based game?
then treat it as such and limit yourself to 15 dollars a month.
The grind (like that found in sub based games) will be for astral diamonds to cover the expenses that 15 dollars a month doesn't quite cover (by converting them to zen).
The rewards you seek can be attained in X amount of months time, just like a sub based game. Maybe a companion, or an enchantment, or a ward to make an enchantment?
This simulates the rewards you might achieve by working for them over the period of a few months while paying for a sub based game.
So just limit yourself to 15 a month.
Imagine if everyone did this and the prices in the zen store came down as a result?
"If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
then treat it as such and limit yourself to 15 dollars a month.
The grind (like that found in sub based games) will be for astral diamonds to cover the expenses that 15 dollars a month doesn't quite cover (by converting them to zen).
The rewards you seek can be attained in X amount of months time, just like a sub based game. Maybe a companion, or an enchantment, or a ward to make an enchantment?
This simulates the rewards you might achieve by working for them over the period of a few months while paying for a sub based game.
So just limit yourself to 15 a month.
Imagine if everyone did this and the prices in the zen store came down as a result?
Great advice. I bought the $60 founder pack because I would have paid $60 for the game. I also bought $20 worth of Zen, and will only buy $15-$20 zen per month, as i would pay this much for a sub.
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causticsuhiMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 1Arc User
edited May 2013
I hope Dez continues to read this thread because, like the op, i really believe this is a great game.
Right now it feels really bad to buy zen or anything from the zen store. And here's why: Even basic MMO staples are on the zen store. Also, like the op stated, its just blatantly obvious how greedy the store is. Currently you can exchange Astral Diamonds for Zen but the exchange rates are insane. Im level 35 and havent been able to respec my feats or powers ONCE, not ONCE. Thats ridiculous.
I dont know what my new At-Will powers are going to be like before i spec into them. I didnt know gloaming cut was the worlds slowest At-Will power. Or that the hits inbetween Duelists Flurry wont continue their chain in the combo if interrupted by a skill. This makes my stealth build garbage and points feel wasted. Ive been trying to respec my feats for ages but it currently costs somewhere around 26k AD just to respec my feats. Wanna know how much i have? 5k.
Sure, they enable you to trade AD for Zen and in theory you dont have to spend a dime, but really-- how much time is it going to take to get that much AD if i want to respec at level 60? Its not fun to feel like you've wasted your time investing in a character thats level 35 only to realize you've made a lot of mistakes and you cant go back without either spending a ludicrous amount of money on a respec token or grind out skirmishes, once an hour every 3-5 hours and praying(literally) that you get some AD- however miniscule, from your god.
Solutions to make the game feel better(honestly):
1) Fix AD>Zen exchange rates. They're awful.
2) Allow a small fee of copper or silver(flat amount, does not scale with level) that scales with amount of times used. Resets cost monthly.
3) Give us skillsets, maybe two or three. Possibly one for solo pve, group pve and pvp respectively.
4) More character slots- Default to four- The game is free anyway, you're just taking away from the experience by forcing others to make new accounts just to make more characters. Four is fair, there are 5(6) classes.
5) This is big, but i believe this change would ultimately benefit the game 1000%- Zen shop changed to cosmetic items, no more pay to win, get rid of AD exchange, still use AD as a currency for high end items. Let people buy bags and identify scrolls for coin. Why would this be good for business? Because now, players are happy with their characters and their open limits, it feels like a AAA MMO standard and not a pay to win model, and people can feel incentive to invest in their characters, emotionally and monetarily. I dont know about anyone else, but if i have the choice of buying something that i feel im being forced to buy(respec tokens, AD, bags) or things that i feel are worthwhile and can actually invest in my character a bit more to stand out(skins, dyes, holiday outfits, weapon particles, etc)... I'll pick investing in my character everytime. Know why? Not only cause i'll feel like sticking around, but because the content developed and the price i payed will feel worth it. And you know what? I'll be back for seconds... and possibly thirds. So long as content is released periodically.
I want this game to succeed, i really do, but your current model makes me feel terrible about playing the game. Its very flawed and for your sake and mine and possibly lots of others, please please, please change it.
Sincerely,
a fellow game designer, potential paying customer, and long time DnD fan...
-CausticSushi
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oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Great advice. I bought the $60 founder pack because I would have paid $60 for the game. I also bought $20 worth of Zen, and will only buy $15-$20 zen per month, as i would pay this much for a sub.
that's what i'm gonna do.
the first month on top of my guardian pack I shamefully paid an extra 40 or so dollars redesigning my toon and buying dyes. lmao.
15 bucks a month can go towards keys, or wards for enchantments... all kinds of stuff. Just takes patience to achieve those rewards.....like those for a sub based game.
Time-Lost Proto Drake anyone? lol
Best example I can give is if a player begins farming epics for enchantment shards, all the while just paying 15 dollars a month.
Maybe after a month or 2 he or she has the pieces necessary to make that kick butt enchantment and now, because you paid a "sub fee", you have the means to acquire the wards necessary to make all the enchantments you want.
The equivalent to being rewarded for the same type of grind in a sub based game!
"If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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h4wkeye101Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
edited May 2013
What bothers me the most is the price of certain AD items and the enchants situation. You need like almost 3 million AD to get your mount to lvl 3 (which is 110% speed). That is an INSANE amount. And a fast mount is ESSENTIAL in PvP since they are allowing mounts there. So basically, that means you need to either buy an epic mount for 40$ or grind part of AD, buy 20$ worth of ZEN and exchange it for more AD. And then the enchants.... 1% success chance? Seriously? Coalescent ward that costs 10$ for ONE!? That is ****ing STUPID, and clear money grabbing.
To be fair, the Time Lost proto-drake was at best, a +30% speed increase out of combat, and a cosmetic upgrade to whatever flying mount you were using, and there were tons of alternatives. This game has that. It's called the Angel of Protection.
One shouldn't have to grind for over a month just to change a few power points.
I wanna go back to being weird. I like being weird. Weird's all I got, oh, and my sweet style. -Maurice Moss, The IT Crowd
I'm having a good time with the game so far, but like many people I find the pricing in the store to be pretty gross, especially for a game that's still in "open beta". I'd love it if they went with an optional subscription model like DCUO, but regardless the pricing really needs to come down. Trying to mask the actual monetary cost by making people buy virtual currency only goes so far and Cryptic didn't even pause when they crossed that line...I mean, things like 6 dollars for a respec? It's even more hilarious when you take into account that you have to commit to each point as you spend it.
So bugs and everything aside, I just cannot get over how greedy the zen store model is. I love the combat, races, questing, ect. It's just no matter how much fun I seem to have, I think about how bad the end-game is and how absurdly greedy PWE is, and I just lose all interest in this game. Unless they COMPLETELY overhaul the zen store, I see no future at all for this game, which is a shame. Hopefully Cryptic and other companys learn from this mistake. Gamers can smell bull-**** from a mile away, and their store just reeks of it.
I really, REALLY wish the store and end-game were better. I had such high hopes for this game, being both a D&D fan and a fan of MMOs. The kicker is, I would of easily dropped hundreds of dollars on this game if they werent so blatantly greedy, and I know I'm not alone.
TL;DR: PWE ruined an otherwise awesome game with their greed. Hopefully future MMOs learn from this.
Admin Response from Dezstravus: Thanks for the feedback! We're actively monitoring the feedback on this, so please keep posting your comments! As users in the thread have started, it's our continual goal to make all Zen Market items either optional (i.e. cosmetic/convenience), or attainable through utilizing the Astral Diamond exchange. Overall, Neverwinter is designed to be 100% Free to Play, meaning that we want you to be able to enjoy the entire core experience and have a ton of fun without paying a dime. Please continue to let us know how close we are to achieving this goal!
Nice to see an Admin response. Unfortunately I don't think we agree on the word "attainable"
You just can't have staple items such as Inventory Bags, Healing items, and respecs for such crazy prices and consider it not to be a greedy cash grab. 10$ bags, 15$ healing items and 6$ respecs? I just don't see how that's not like slapping people in the face. Or the fact that I still have an unanswered ticket from last Sunday but in that time I get a coupon for 15% more Zen if I spend $50. 1.25$ keys...30$ companions.. it all just reiks of greedy cash grab with the exchange rates the way they are now.
Players should be encouraged to experiment with builds. That's why you're given the option to allocate ability points and feat points where you want to, is it not? If that weren't the case, the software would simply assign them for you, and we'd all have the same builds, based on our class.
I detest FOTM builds. They're so boring. I have great respect for those who think outside the box and tinker with their builds until they discover something truly different, that makes everyone step back and reevaluate their own builds.
As you said, egregious pricing on respecs makes players disinclined to do that, because they are afraid to simply experiment.
"Over the course of my many years I have learned one thing: I don't know anything, I only think I do. And I'm not even sure about that." -- Rasgard the Wise
I have'nt needed to buy anything from the store. I'm level 60 and have 9.4k armor rating. Other than some stuff from the founders pack, which really hasn't helped me other than a few cosmetic things. I haven't even claimed my 2 million AD yet because there really is no need for spending money on this game if you don't want to.
I have'nt needed to buy anything from the store. I'm level 60 and have 9.4k armor rating. Other than some stuff from the founders pack, which really hasn't helped me other than a few cosmetic things. I haven't even claimed my 2 million AD yet because there really is no need for spending money on this game if you don't want to.
You bought the founders pack but yet have 'yet to buy anything from the Zen' shop, with 2mil AD randomly floating about the aether....
Thanks for the feedback! We're actively monitoring the feedback on this, so please keep posting your comments! As users in the thread have started, it's our continual goal to make all Zen Market items either optional (i.e. cosmetic/convenience), or attainable through utilizing the Astral Diamond exchange. Overall, Neverwinter is designed to be 100% Free to Play, meaning that we want you to be able to enjoy the entire core experience and have a ton of fun without paying a dime. Please continue to let us know how close we are to achieving this goal!
From a potential consumer stand point... you guys completely dropped the ball on this one. I have played a few F2P games and your model is the absolute worst I have ever seen. I have spent hundred and hundreds of dollars on games like League of Legends and dropped $100.oo here and there on other F2P games without giving it much thought. I did this all because it was convenience based purchases that didn't give players a huge advantage and the prices were comparable to a subscription based model. I always compared it to subscription based games because if the game doesn't have enough content for 6 months of play time then why would I spend anywhere close to $60.oo for it.
At first glance this model wasn't that bad until I ran the numbers on gear enchantment and what end game gear actually means. You have to spend WAY too much money on enchantments and that just kills your end game content because it becomes all about pay to win. $40 for a mount is over priced for me as well because I would rather have 2, $20.oo mounts of equal stats than get sick of looking at the same old $40.oo mount. The imbalance for companions also hurts sales on those as well. The cat is mathematically the best companion in the game and that pretty much kills the point of buying anything else. I would rather pay for the same type of pet with a new skin upgrade than buy a pet I like for stats, but looks ugly as hell (to me).
Now throw in how the exploits were allowed for far too long without the servers being taken down or any rollbacks done and you're looking at a broken economy, so the game is going to suffer for weeks until it's even worth considering to invest any real life money into it. 5+ days for GF's 1 hitting boss mobs, profession packs exploits lasting weeks on end, foundry pumping out 60+ characters in under an hour were all just brushed under the table. This is where subscription logic comes in and reminds me I'm paying for security of the server as well... things like this would've been rolled back especially during a "beta".
I'm going to stick it out for a bit longer to see new content and if the player base and market recovers from the exploiting. If things don't change it would take me a lot to ever consider another title with PW attached to it.
Players should be encouraged to experiment with builds. That's why you're given the option to allocate ability points and feat points where you want to, is it not? If that weren't the case, the software would simply assign them for you, and we'd all have the same builds, based on our class.
I detest FOTM builds. They're so boring. I have great respect for those who think outside the box and tinker with their builds until they discover something truly different, that makes everyone step back and reevaluate their own builds.
As you said, egregious pricing on respecs makes players disinclined to do that, because they are afraid to simply experiment.
This is what I enjoy most about games where you allot your own points. It allows you to have a unique build, with similar skills, but completely different play styles and damage output. The problem we have with this game is the information pop ups for skills and feats are worded horribly and you honestly cannot figure out the value in a certain build unless you try it out. There aren't many feats (with informative pop out windows) that allow you to run the numbers on them. It is basically trial and error with a $6.oo fee for each comparison.
Re-Speccing is not core gameplay. It is a work-around, legal cheat, etc.
It's pay 4 fail. You made the error. 80 hours of community service (AD) or a small fine (600 zen).
Made a error are you really that stupid, its a game you moron being punished for wanting to try different specs is not some evil thing, i hate idiots like you that think its so important to get your spec right or else, its off to the chopping block with ya.\
AGAIN ITS A GAME not a job, not a college exam, its fun, or supposed to be. How about when they fail, what penalty should they get when they mess up are specs, or is it just one sided in your brain?
I don't see it as greedy, especially when you can buy it all by converting AD to zen.
There is a point where the time necessary to get the AD becomes completely and utterly inefficient.
For example: To get the best enchantments right now I can either pay through the teeth or I can spend the next ~6-12 months farming the Astral Diamonds for them, at which point more content will be updated and the enchants will likely be pretty useless. Same applies for gear, too.
If it took a few days, maybe even a few weeks of farming then sure, I could understand your argument. Half a year is not a valid excuse. Please try again.
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xaeosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 8Arc User
edited May 2013
I agree that the monetization scheme for the game is the worst thing about it; a common complaint for any properties managed by Perfect World, sadly.
--
Like many others here, I feel that overall Neverwinter seems to be a decent game in terms of mechanics/content thus far, but I am very disappointed in the monetization scheme.
Overall, it seems that items are just way, way too expensive, be they in Astral Diamonds or in ZEN. There are also many items (companions, mounts etc) that are ONLY accessible via ZEN, which are often better versions of in-game content, thus leading to a "Pay To Win" scenario. Mounts that cost around $40 just aren't reasonable in my mind and some of the gold sinks, such the Nightmare Key / Chest dichotomy and worse, the Rune system are just absolutely obscenely expensive - consider that getting a Greater Rune/Enchantment may require either months of work or literally $160 to actually successfully fuze, and said enchant is game-changing when it comes to PVP, that isn't realistic.
Ultimately, I have three requests with regards to the monetization system to help make Neverwinter (and for that matter, Star Trek Online and Champions Online) better games.
1. First thing is to simply reduce the cost of items across the board and ensure that the game is not designed to make the player feel like they're grinding/having a bad experience etc.. to goad them into buying content. Instead, lower prices and fun, accessible design will make players WANT to purchase to enhance their experience because they're having fun in Neverwinter! Placing high costs on items does not mean better revenue; I can guarantee that $40+ mounts will be less successful than $5-10. You'll have a much higher volume of players willing to pay $5 for a mount and thus eclipse the revenue generated by the considerably more rare player willing to spend $40. Likewise, the player who feels that it will take months and months of grinding to achieve X as opposed to buying it in the store for $Y, is far more likely to ditch playing the game at all because they're not having a good time; Whereas a player who sees a choice between playing a week to achieve X and spending a small, reasonable $Y to have X immediately instead, will often pay to enhance their fun. Sell convenience for people who are already having fun, at low prices at a reasonable rate (ie do not nickle and dime players for everything! Paying $5 for something should feel like a boost to their playtime and enjoyment, not that as soon as they do they're going to run into something else that's going to ask for another $5 etc... Obviously, this is even worse at current pricing where $5 is more like $50!), and players will support over the long haul. VALUE and player enjoyment is the name of the game.
2. Put an end to "Pay 2 Win" and locking content - ANY CONTENT, even cosmetic - exclusively behind real money transaction paywalls. Having epic mounts and the best companions available solely through ZEN purchase isn't acceptable, likewise, for costumes, gear etc... make these items available through play somehow (and I don't mean trading in-game currencies for ZEN etc... as that is a charade; someone has to be purchasing that ZEN first and that really screws up the economy). Even such mundane things as Bag and Bank space are behind considerable RMT purchases! Please put a stop to this and instead make these items available through play otherwise - trips to the RMT store should be fun occasional diversions to enhance play, not make players feel like the best is being withheld from them unless they drop lots of money, frequently. If players are having fun and you offfer them convenience/enhancements, they WILL support the game.
3. Ensure that currencies and content are transferable and account-bound, labeled easily as such. Players need to be able to feel that when they do pay for convenience, it is flexible and not locked to one character or another, can be claimed multiple times on different characters etc. Another big bonus will be to allow players who have RMT currency - ZEN/CrypticPoints etc... accumulated in other PWI/Cryptic games, like Star Trek Online and Champions Online, to spend it anywhere they choose. If someone is generating a stipend from Lifetime, Gold subscriptions etc... or has banked RMT currency, they should be able to access it in Neverwinter as well.
Neverwinter seems like it could be off to a good start (though, I'd like to see much more Roleplay content), but PWI's monetization scheme is by far the worst thing about it, and in my opinion, all of Cryptic's titles - great games, hobbled by overly expensive and complex monetization strategies. Put player content and value first, ensure that costs are MUCH lower, and the volume of support that Neverwinter will enjoy will lead to a thriving game over a long duration. Don't let PWI's insane monetization strategy sink what could be a fantastic, enjoyable experience.
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starkaosMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
From a potential consumer stand point... you guys completely dropped the ball on this one. I have played a few F2P games and your model is the absolute worst I have ever seen. I have spent hundred and hundreds of dollars on games like League of Legends and dropped $100.oo here and there on other F2P games without giving it much thought. I did this all because it was convenience based purchases that didn't give players a huge advantage and the prices were comparable to a subscription based model. I always compared it to subscription based games because if the game doesn't have enough content for 6 months of play time then why would I spend anywhere close to $60.oo for it.
Absolute worst F2P game that you have ever seen? Then you must not be playing enough F2P games. Having actual content locked behind the Cash Store is the worst possible F2P game and there are tons. Having to pay to go on dungeons delves or PvP or have to pay to craft or use the auction house is the worst thing that is done to F2P games. Neverwinter doesn't come even close to the worst F2P game that I have played.
Comments
Thanks for the laugh.
The ignorance...it buuuurnssss!
Please don't forget the 2 out of 3 trees in Guardian Fighter that are broken.
So how many times do those players get gouged before they choose conqueror?
The goal seems to be to set a higher price point for goods under the assumption that most people will not play for an extended career, which seems to me to be a poor goal to set for an MMO business model. I would be more likely to pay less incrementally and play through several characters over time than to invest a chunk up front for each of them.
Even if I were to pay ~$60 for all of the "endgame" benefits for a character, you can bet I would only do it once. Especially considering the relatively gentle slope and short time involved to hit 60.
Why design a MMO to be burned out on short-term in both a gameplay and a financial investment sense? And now you've painted yourselves into a corner by setting aggressive prices to start with - if you back down now, you'll anger the people who paid top dollar in beta unless you offer a serious carrot.
It's really unfortunate, this is a very enjoyable game that is going to be killed by a poor business model.
I'm all for buying CS items, but $40 mounts, really?
I was also thinking, sales on items in the Zen Store could be a much better revenue. For example, people might splurge more on sales than when the prices are at the normal. (Look at Steam's summer sales, holiday sales, weekend sales, etc.) I've bought quite a few good games from Steam around those times; and sometimes it wasn't just -one- game.
That is my two cents.
While a lot of stuff in the Zen Store is overpriced, we are not paying for utilities, but for a luxury entertainment. A lot of my friends have reached level 60 and are good at PvP with no cent invested. I, am addicted to dye packs. Please, lower their prices!
This is the best way I've seen this posted. It is kinda what I have been saying, although in a different way.
I've said it is because they are not confident in their product, and you say it better by saying that you upload goods for a quicker burnout.
There is a reason why the tortoise and the hare is a time-honored fable.
This is exactly what PWE should be afraid of. If they lowered their prices to the equivalent of LoL or PoE, they would have ALOT more players. Also them charging for basic things such as respecs is just crazy. If they made respecs cost 1-5g and lowered prices on the Zen Store, I assume this game would have a very long and healthy life with a good playerbase.
then treat it as such and limit yourself to 15 dollars a month.
The grind (like that found in sub based games) will be for astral diamonds to cover the expenses that 15 dollars a month doesn't quite cover (by converting them to zen).
The rewards you seek can be attained in X amount of months time, just like a sub based game. Maybe a companion, or an enchantment, or a ward to make an enchantment?
This simulates the rewards you might achieve by working for them over the period of a few months while paying for a sub based game.
So just limit yourself to 15 a month.
Imagine if everyone did this and the prices in the zen store came down as a result?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Great advice. I bought the $60 founder pack because I would have paid $60 for the game. I also bought $20 worth of Zen, and will only buy $15-$20 zen per month, as i would pay this much for a sub.
Right now it feels really bad to buy zen or anything from the zen store. And here's why: Even basic MMO staples are on the zen store. Also, like the op stated, its just blatantly obvious how greedy the store is. Currently you can exchange Astral Diamonds for Zen but the exchange rates are insane. Im level 35 and havent been able to respec my feats or powers ONCE, not ONCE. Thats ridiculous.
I dont know what my new At-Will powers are going to be like before i spec into them. I didnt know gloaming cut was the worlds slowest At-Will power. Or that the hits inbetween Duelists Flurry wont continue their chain in the combo if interrupted by a skill. This makes my stealth build garbage and points feel wasted. Ive been trying to respec my feats for ages but it currently costs somewhere around 26k AD just to respec my feats. Wanna know how much i have? 5k.
Sure, they enable you to trade AD for Zen and in theory you dont have to spend a dime, but really-- how much time is it going to take to get that much AD if i want to respec at level 60? Its not fun to feel like you've wasted your time investing in a character thats level 35 only to realize you've made a lot of mistakes and you cant go back without either spending a ludicrous amount of money on a respec token or grind out skirmishes, once an hour every 3-5 hours and praying(literally) that you get some AD- however miniscule, from your god.
Solutions to make the game feel better(honestly):
1) Fix AD>Zen exchange rates. They're awful.
2) Allow a small fee of copper or silver(flat amount, does not scale with level) that scales with amount of times used. Resets cost monthly.
3) Give us skillsets, maybe two or three. Possibly one for solo pve, group pve and pvp respectively.
4) More character slots- Default to four- The game is free anyway, you're just taking away from the experience by forcing others to make new accounts just to make more characters. Four is fair, there are 5(6) classes.
5) This is big, but i believe this change would ultimately benefit the game 1000%- Zen shop changed to cosmetic items, no more pay to win, get rid of AD exchange, still use AD as a currency for high end items. Let people buy bags and identify scrolls for coin. Why would this be good for business? Because now, players are happy with their characters and their open limits, it feels like a AAA MMO standard and not a pay to win model, and people can feel incentive to invest in their characters, emotionally and monetarily. I dont know about anyone else, but if i have the choice of buying something that i feel im being forced to buy(respec tokens, AD, bags) or things that i feel are worthwhile and can actually invest in my character a bit more to stand out(skins, dyes, holiday outfits, weapon particles, etc)... I'll pick investing in my character everytime. Know why? Not only cause i'll feel like sticking around, but because the content developed and the price i payed will feel worth it. And you know what? I'll be back for seconds... and possibly thirds. So long as content is released periodically.
I want this game to succeed, i really do, but your current model makes me feel terrible about playing the game. Its very flawed and for your sake and mine and possibly lots of others, please please, please change it.
Sincerely,
a fellow game designer, potential paying customer, and long time DnD fan...
-CausticSushi
that's what i'm gonna do.
the first month on top of my guardian pack I shamefully paid an extra 40 or so dollars redesigning my toon and buying dyes. lmao.
15 bucks a month can go towards keys, or wards for enchantments... all kinds of stuff. Just takes patience to achieve those rewards.....like those for a sub based game.
Time-Lost Proto Drake anyone? lol
Best example I can give is if a player begins farming epics for enchantment shards, all the while just paying 15 dollars a month.
Maybe after a month or 2 he or she has the pieces necessary to make that kick butt enchantment and now, because you paid a "sub fee", you have the means to acquire the wards necessary to make all the enchantments you want.
The equivalent to being rewarded for the same type of grind in a sub based game!
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To be fair, the Time Lost proto-drake was at best, a +30% speed increase out of combat, and a cosmetic upgrade to whatever flying mount you were using, and there were tons of alternatives. This game has that. It's called the Angel of Protection.
One shouldn't have to grind for over a month just to change a few power points.
Nice to see an Admin response. Unfortunately I don't think we agree on the word "attainable"
You just can't have staple items such as Inventory Bags, Healing items, and respecs for such crazy prices and consider it not to be a greedy cash grab. 10$ bags, 15$ healing items and 6$ respecs? I just don't see how that's not like slapping people in the face. Or the fact that I still have an unanswered ticket from last Sunday but in that time I get a coupon for 15% more Zen if I spend $50. 1.25$ keys...30$ companions.. it all just reiks of greedy cash grab with the exchange rates the way they are now.
Players should be encouraged to experiment with builds. That's why you're given the option to allocate ability points and feat points where you want to, is it not? If that weren't the case, the software would simply assign them for you, and we'd all have the same builds, based on our class.
I detest FOTM builds. They're so boring. I have great respect for those who think outside the box and tinker with their builds until they discover something truly different, that makes everyone step back and reevaluate their own builds.
As you said, egregious pricing on respecs makes players disinclined to do that, because they are afraid to simply experiment.
wat he said. mandatory items should be attainable through golds not zen shop.
You bought the founders pack but yet have 'yet to buy anything from the Zen' shop, with 2mil AD randomly floating about the aether....
Credibility, gone.
From a potential consumer stand point... you guys completely dropped the ball on this one. I have played a few F2P games and your model is the absolute worst I have ever seen. I have spent hundred and hundreds of dollars on games like League of Legends and dropped $100.oo here and there on other F2P games without giving it much thought. I did this all because it was convenience based purchases that didn't give players a huge advantage and the prices were comparable to a subscription based model. I always compared it to subscription based games because if the game doesn't have enough content for 6 months of play time then why would I spend anywhere close to $60.oo for it.
At first glance this model wasn't that bad until I ran the numbers on gear enchantment and what end game gear actually means. You have to spend WAY too much money on enchantments and that just kills your end game content because it becomes all about pay to win. $40 for a mount is over priced for me as well because I would rather have 2, $20.oo mounts of equal stats than get sick of looking at the same old $40.oo mount. The imbalance for companions also hurts sales on those as well. The cat is mathematically the best companion in the game and that pretty much kills the point of buying anything else. I would rather pay for the same type of pet with a new skin upgrade than buy a pet I like for stats, but looks ugly as hell (to me).
Now throw in how the exploits were allowed for far too long without the servers being taken down or any rollbacks done and you're looking at a broken economy, so the game is going to suffer for weeks until it's even worth considering to invest any real life money into it. 5+ days for GF's 1 hitting boss mobs, profession packs exploits lasting weeks on end, foundry pumping out 60+ characters in under an hour were all just brushed under the table. This is where subscription logic comes in and reminds me I'm paying for security of the server as well... things like this would've been rolled back especially during a "beta".
I'm going to stick it out for a bit longer to see new content and if the player base and market recovers from the exploiting. If things don't change it would take me a lot to ever consider another title with PW attached to it.
This is what I enjoy most about games where you allot your own points. It allows you to have a unique build, with similar skills, but completely different play styles and damage output. The problem we have with this game is the information pop ups for skills and feats are worded horribly and you honestly cannot figure out the value in a certain build unless you try it out. There aren't many feats (with informative pop out windows) that allow you to run the numbers on them. It is basically trial and error with a $6.oo fee for each comparison.
Made a error are you really that stupid, its a game you moron being punished for wanting to try different specs is not some evil thing, i hate idiots like you that think its so important to get your spec right or else, its off to the chopping block with ya.\
AGAIN ITS A GAME not a job, not a college exam, its fun, or supposed to be. How about when they fail, what penalty should they get when they mess up are specs, or is it just one sided in your brain?
There is a point where the time necessary to get the AD becomes completely and utterly inefficient.
For example: To get the best enchantments right now I can either pay through the teeth or I can spend the next ~6-12 months farming the Astral Diamonds for them, at which point more content will be updated and the enchants will likely be pretty useless. Same applies for gear, too.
If it took a few days, maybe even a few weeks of farming then sure, I could understand your argument. Half a year is not a valid excuse. Please try again.
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Like many others here, I feel that overall Neverwinter seems to be a decent game in terms of mechanics/content thus far, but I am very disappointed in the monetization scheme.
Overall, it seems that items are just way, way too expensive, be they in Astral Diamonds or in ZEN. There are also many items (companions, mounts etc) that are ONLY accessible via ZEN, which are often better versions of in-game content, thus leading to a "Pay To Win" scenario. Mounts that cost around $40 just aren't reasonable in my mind and some of the gold sinks, such the Nightmare Key / Chest dichotomy and worse, the Rune system are just absolutely obscenely expensive - consider that getting a Greater Rune/Enchantment may require either months of work or literally $160 to actually successfully fuze, and said enchant is game-changing when it comes to PVP, that isn't realistic.
A more in-depth discussion of the monetization system is here - http://www.reddit.com/r/Neverwinter/..._need_to_know/ , and touches on many of the issues I've noted upon
Ultimately, I have three requests with regards to the monetization system to help make Neverwinter (and for that matter, Star Trek Online and Champions Online) better games.
1. First thing is to simply reduce the cost of items across the board and ensure that the game is not designed to make the player feel like they're grinding/having a bad experience etc.. to goad them into buying content. Instead, lower prices and fun, accessible design will make players WANT to purchase to enhance their experience because they're having fun in Neverwinter! Placing high costs on items does not mean better revenue; I can guarantee that $40+ mounts will be less successful than $5-10. You'll have a much higher volume of players willing to pay $5 for a mount and thus eclipse the revenue generated by the considerably more rare player willing to spend $40. Likewise, the player who feels that it will take months and months of grinding to achieve X as opposed to buying it in the store for $Y, is far more likely to ditch playing the game at all because they're not having a good time; Whereas a player who sees a choice between playing a week to achieve X and spending a small, reasonable $Y to have X immediately instead, will often pay to enhance their fun. Sell convenience for people who are already having fun, at low prices at a reasonable rate (ie do not nickle and dime players for everything! Paying $5 for something should feel like a boost to their playtime and enjoyment, not that as soon as they do they're going to run into something else that's going to ask for another $5 etc... Obviously, this is even worse at current pricing where $5 is more like $50!), and players will support over the long haul. VALUE and player enjoyment is the name of the game.
2. Put an end to "Pay 2 Win" and locking content - ANY CONTENT, even cosmetic - exclusively behind real money transaction paywalls. Having epic mounts and the best companions available solely through ZEN purchase isn't acceptable, likewise, for costumes, gear etc... make these items available through play somehow (and I don't mean trading in-game currencies for ZEN etc... as that is a charade; someone has to be purchasing that ZEN first and that really screws up the economy). Even such mundane things as Bag and Bank space are behind considerable RMT purchases! Please put a stop to this and instead make these items available through play otherwise - trips to the RMT store should be fun occasional diversions to enhance play, not make players feel like the best is being withheld from them unless they drop lots of money, frequently. If players are having fun and you offfer them convenience/enhancements, they WILL support the game.
3. Ensure that currencies and content are transferable and account-bound, labeled easily as such. Players need to be able to feel that when they do pay for convenience, it is flexible and not locked to one character or another, can be claimed multiple times on different characters etc. Another big bonus will be to allow players who have RMT currency - ZEN/CrypticPoints etc... accumulated in other PWI/Cryptic games, like Star Trek Online and Champions Online, to spend it anywhere they choose. If someone is generating a stipend from Lifetime, Gold subscriptions etc... or has banked RMT currency, they should be able to access it in Neverwinter as well.
Neverwinter seems like it could be off to a good start (though, I'd like to see much more Roleplay content), but PWI's monetization scheme is by far the worst thing about it, and in my opinion, all of Cryptic's titles - great games, hobbled by overly expensive and complex monetization strategies. Put player content and value first, ensure that costs are MUCH lower, and the volume of support that Neverwinter will enjoy will lead to a thriving game over a long duration. Don't let PWI's insane monetization strategy sink what could be a fantastic, enjoyable experience.
Absolute worst F2P game that you have ever seen? Then you must not be playing enough F2P games. Having actual content locked behind the Cash Store is the worst possible F2P game and there are tons. Having to pay to go on dungeons delves or PvP or have to pay to craft or use the auction house is the worst thing that is done to F2P games. Neverwinter doesn't come even close to the worst F2P game that I have played.