Well that makes it all better then, it does make sense that the 2 "tanking" classes excell at pvp and suc horribly at pve ....>-<
I added a bit more to that post. But GWF's aren't useless at all in PvE. I do agree that currently GF's aren't exactly part of the 'meta', but i'm sure they'll get there.
Just because the community doesn't fully understand a class yet doesn't mean it's useless. It just means it's more difficult to understand than other classes. Though I can honestly say some of the skills and stats are bugged with GF's, and I'm sure some of the mechanics are clunky.
I remember hearing something from another friend of mine about how aggro was calculated in 'hate per second' rather than the total amount of damage taken. I do believe that if this is true, it makes a pretty large difference in the amount of aggro that can be generated before taking aggro entirely.
To break this theory down so it makes more sense:
For the sake of this example, we'll say each damage damage per second counts as 1 aggro per second.
Let's say a Rogue does approximately 15,000 DPS.
That would mean that without hate generating skills, a GF would need to do a Raw 15,000 DPS as well. Since obviously this can't occur without some insane gear, we use hate skills.
A more reasonable number for GF DPS seems around 6,000. This would mean that he would need approximately 60% extra damage per second to take aggro. Enter hate generating skills. I'm not entirely familiar with tanks, but I believe they have a taunt that forces a critter to attack him for a certain amount of time. What this seems to me is that tanks should have the ability to take large amounts of damage without much consequence but without co-ordination of their taunt ability to take the harder hits, it's not as effective.
Sorry if that didn't make any sense, I'm also theorycrafting as I'm typing this.
We do have a taunt but the taunt has a maximum of five targets and the duration sucks. By the time you taunt the mobs, position yourself properly, and maybe get 1-2 cleaves(our basic attack) in - the mob is already running off to someone else. I gave up with the "tank" role for the most part in my early thirties. I now play as if I am a sub-par dps that gives my party a short duration buff and has the ability to heal myself and ae stun every 12-15 seconds.
Gza the Genius - Elf Guardian Fighter
the Rza - dog companion
We do have a taunt but the taunt has a maximum of five targets and the duration sucks. By the time you taunt the mobs, position yourself properly, and maybe get 1-2 cleaves(our basic attack) in - the mob is already running off to someone else. I gave up with the "tank" role for the most part in my early thirties. I now play as if I am a sub-par dps that gives my party a short duration buff and has the ability to heal myself and ae stun every 12-15 seconds.
At 60 with Stalwart Bulwark gear (defensive gear) and Conquerer spec (damage spec) it's pretty easy to hold aggro while still acting as a tank and being the best character to mitigate damage with 45%+ damage reduction and over 20% chance to reduce damage by 50% with deflection. Mark doubles your threat and triples it with Enhanced Mark so it usually depends on the DPS you're running with. There's a few rogues out there who are able to greatly outpace double your damage but they're pretty rare. Even then there's nothing out there that should be able to outpace triple your damage.
The only real typical problems I have is when Mark falls off due to poor game mechanics, for example certain mobs in Spellplague Caverns have passive abilities that when they use them your Mark falls off so keeping Mark on them is pretty much impossible. You see this on other bosses such as Cragmire Crypts final boss where his teleport will remove Mark despite not damaging you.
0
pinkysansbrainMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 3Arc User
If you still believe it's not a release and the game is an open beta, please explain what is the difference between this "open beta" and the release of any other game.
The game isn't complete, that's the difference. How hard is this to understand?
I've figured it out; this game is dying because of, dramatic pause with drum roll: PvP, so it should be removed at the earliest opportunity. It will eliminate all the QQ threads about class balance in PvP, since there won't be any issues with it once it's gone. It's not like PvP is a staple of a D&D title anyway, it's just a tacked on mechanic to expand the playerbase to a larger target audience, and as we can see by all the "your game is dying because of PvP/xxxx class is overpowered in PvP, nerf them NAO" threads, it's not working out very well. So just get the thorn out of your paws now PW/Cryptic, and see what happens next.***
***The previous post is satirical in nature. I wonder how many people will actually get past the first sentence before they go all ballistic about removing their "key" feature?
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
The rabid fanbois with the copout lame excuse of the game being only a "beta" are simply delusional. It's only a BETA if the live version starts with a clean slate. Meaning a complete wipe of the system.
Neverwinter is not going to have any wipes from here on out. There will be no more clean slates. As such the game is NOT IN BETA. You can try to use whatever label you want to assuage your conscience, but it doesn't matter what you try to label something that doesn't exhibit the properties for that label. Its like trying to call a dog a cat. Sure you can do it, but it doesn't make a dog any more a cat.
This game is NOT in beta unless they are going to do a wipe. And if they do wipe for some reason, I want a refund of the money I spent thus far.
Honestly, the game has a lot going for it, but some idiotic game designs are hampering it majorly. Most of which has been summed up in this post.
Personally I'm giving Cryptic/PWE a chance to fix all the major issues till around halfway of June ( around 1,5 months from the start of open beta ). These issues that I find major are:
-Queue system failing ( queue taking ages, not porting/letting people port into queued instances, giving people parties with 5 DPS and so on. )
-Loot system failing ( being able to need on another classes item, most item being BoE etc. )
-Rogue PvP damage being ridicilous
-Both Fighter -classes being unecessary and unneeded for both PvP and PvE
-Respeccing costing too much AD and costing Zen to beginwith
I believe 1,5 months is enough to fix all previously mentioned issues. If Cryptic/PWE fails to deliver, then I'll scrap the game and then probably the same will be done by my friends who I play with.
Sigh, this is beta and people are already saying the game is dying... its been what 2 weeks more or less, obviously people will leave because a game can't satisfy everyone thats just the facts, every launch of a game with no exceptions has a large number initially and then dwindles to a population of people who generally like the game and feel it suits their play style, so in no manner is the game dieing this is simply the same phase any MMO goes through upon opening their doors up for people to play.
Granted there are some tiresome bugs, but again I'll remind you it is still BETA so report all bugs/exploits you find with as much info regarding the cause and such so they can be fixed promptly. Even though there is no more roll backs and the game could be considered live given that fact, doesn't really mean anything until PWI says the game is live, not before.
For those who still think, whatever it's a beta... you are ingenuous!
So, what's the point on all this?
The game is for me the most buggy & exploitable mmo i had ever seen and i played a lot of alpha/beta 's in the last 10 years. I mean real beta's If they don't bring up really soon new bug free content with challenging bosses and balanced pvp -> servers will be really empty soon cuz u have nothing to do after max a month.
Or do you think the mass play the game for the Foundries people create, which have no features to script new boss fight or even place one? The most played foundries were used for xp / lvl grinding and please... doing foundries for 4k daily, herp derp...
I'm sure most players will exploit the game until CN and having some best in slot items and after that kkthxbye.
^^ IMHO <- !!! ^^
P.S.
Releasing a game until the lovely topic "Beta" to excuse all bugs/exploits seems to be working for most people! btw real alpha's and beta's have a wipeout so those deficiencies have no influence on the release.
For those who still think, whatever it's a beta... you are ingenuous!
So, what's the point on all this?
The game is for me the most buggy & exploitable mmo i had ever seen and i played a lot of alpha/beta 's in the last 10 years. I mean real beta's If they don't bring up really soon new bug free content with challenging bosses and balanced pvp -> servers will be really empty soon cuz u have nothing to do after max a month.
Or do you think the mass play the game for the Foundries people create, which have no features to script new boss fight or even place one? The most played foundries were used for xp / lvl grinding and please... doing foundries for 4k daily, herp derp...
I'm sure most players will exploit the game until CN and having some best in slot items and after that kkthxbye.
^^ IMHO <- !!! ^^
Really? We had gold spammers and botters in the Closed Betas of Aion. I was there, I saw them.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Tell me 1 mmo without bot's and ingame currency seller's? I just ignore them since years.
I pointed this out occurring in Closed Beta. As to the bots/ingame currency sellers, I have played DDO for a few years, albeit more on a part time basis, but I have yet to receive in game mail, whispers, or had to block a spammer in chat. I had heard they'd had the problem, which does indeed exist in every other MMO I've played, some worse than others.
Reading comprehension is essential in a medium that requires reading for communication.
Its a F2P game, not a AAA P2P game. Their all inferior in quality and content and die much much faster becose of the item shop
0
uedajiruMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I've played many mmos over the years, I really feel this game has a chance to be a great mmo, but sure there are things stopping it from being great. I really dont think that perfect world understand how close this game is from being a really good mmo , even more so for a ftp game. It has some great gameplay which is mostly the main thing that keeps me playing right now.
But saying this there are some huge issues with this game that if not fixed soon or before new content comes out then this game will die and the only people left will be those who spend so much real money they dont wanna feel its wasted and stick around.
Those problems are mostly from bugs, double cleric stacking there abilities is a huge one and one that needs fixing right away. Without this it a be very hard to complete some t2 dungeons right now, and thats also an issue, if the only way to really complete alot of content is by abusing game mechanics thats a huge oversight that needs looking into. Ive been on runs where we have had one of each class and then gone into another dungeon with double cleric and the differnce is night and day.
The other issue is pushing back mobs to kill the, fun sure and somthing you can keep in the game but it needs reducing 10fold right now as there just to many adds on bosses that it tends to be the only way to kill bosses. Id love to see somone beat the last boss in castle never without pushing adds off the edge, and that right there is a problem in itself is it not?
Bosses also need alot more thought going into new content, we cant just have boss spawns 1000 adds , then 1000 more adds at 30% , its fine for afew bosses somtimes but come on its not hard to come up with somthing new. We have great movement for classes , take advantage of that and come up with fun mechanics where we have to move and work togther more. The spider boss for example in lair of the spider, has some nice ideas, healing boss from her adds , but thats it. They could easy make it so her cob webs stick people and then drain your life and give it to her, so people have to stop what there doing and hack away the webbing to free the player and stop the healing. Have her spawn spiders only in spider phase, and not a million of them ect. I mean thats just off the top of my head
There other bugs ofc but these are the most anoying ones i find that can really kill the game if left unchecked, and they have already effected the economy to a huge exstent. I would have thought perfect world would be on this really quick. Because anyone who has abused these mechanics wont have any issues with making astral diomands to the point where there is no need to pay money for zen.
Still it saddens me abit that these things havnt been fixed yet. This game really has a chance to be great
I think its always a mistake to allow beta gains to be kept into release. Exploits/bugs are expected in beta, but if you dont have a wipe at the end of beta then what does beta even mean?
shoobletMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
Can't we just complain about how broken Warlocks were back in Vanilla?
All i had to do was Target -> Fear -> DoT -> DoT -> DoT -> Fear -> Wand -> Fear -> Drain Life.
People died without even leaving a CC. Because that was totally balanced. And you kids want to complain about a control wizard, who in all honesty, could CC you for about 3 seconds, but only do about 25% of your total HP in that 3 seconds.
I'm not even going to mention how most of the individuals on this thread are too cynical because they dont have a group competent enough to farm epic dungeons. You expect to down the difficult content in the first two weeks with 4 drunk apes sitting at a desk in mommies basement? Think again.
I just wanted to remind my fellow Vanilla WoWers that Warlocks were more broken than any class currently in Neverwinter. I believe we can stop saying that Neverwinter classes are unbalanced. Because Blizzard knows how to make classes imbalanced.
~Shoob
0
niblMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Honestly -> pushing enemies over ledge I found fun (finally i had use for Repel that do not annoy my teammates), for sure it is funnier than DPS to 0 hp -> first thing in DnD 4ed that caught my eye was these skills that moved enemies, and how could you use them during encounters. On the other hand it cannot be only viable strategy in some fights, and these constantly respawning AD-s annoy me greatly (i don't mind HP % ADs spawns).
Honestly I expected that open beta will mean lot of/prolonged servers downtime. But I didn't expect heavy exploits, that stay in game after patches. (dungeon exploit - then close the F* dungeon 'till you will be able to repair bugs).
game balance issues are a fair point, but I get how bugs will be prioritized. I think the "no character wipes" of this open beta kind of give people the false expectation that the game is released and ready to play. Its sort of like a psuedo-beta. I wonder if this was a mistake.
at any rate, I gave it a try and submitted some bug reports. I spent money on it so I'm definitely not done with it yet. I'll probably let it sit for a bit while they fix some stuff and play a little more next week.
I find it funny that most of your points are being very unresearched. PWE is only the publisher of the game, Cryptic is the Developer. And they have been more active in helping with things than any other company i've heard of.
As for your complaint number 1, some skills dont work in pvp.
2, they fixed it. it disconnects a player if they stay in spawn too long. (could be better)
3, its because of a lack of ranged DPS (Which they plan to add)
4, Most have been fixed( this is still beta may i remind you)
5, no its not, i can confirm they fixed it.
6, There is plenty of AD generation, the reason that prices are low right now is because of the founders pack buyers putting millions upon millions of new AD into the system.
8, there is plenty of Ingame content and i have a quote directly from a facebook comment that Neverwenter made "We plan on adding lots of challenging endgame content upon the official release"
9, i believe i already stated why 9 is wrong.
Comments
I added a bit more to that post. But GWF's aren't useless at all in PvE. I do agree that currently GF's aren't exactly part of the 'meta', but i'm sure they'll get there.
Just because the community doesn't fully understand a class yet doesn't mean it's useless. It just means it's more difficult to understand than other classes. Though I can honestly say some of the skills and stats are bugged with GF's, and I'm sure some of the mechanics are clunky.
I remember hearing something from another friend of mine about how aggro was calculated in 'hate per second' rather than the total amount of damage taken. I do believe that if this is true, it makes a pretty large difference in the amount of aggro that can be generated before taking aggro entirely.
To break this theory down so it makes more sense:
For the sake of this example, we'll say each damage damage per second counts as 1 aggro per second.
Let's say a Rogue does approximately 15,000 DPS.
That would mean that without hate generating skills, a GF would need to do a Raw 15,000 DPS as well. Since obviously this can't occur without some insane gear, we use hate skills.
A more reasonable number for GF DPS seems around 6,000. This would mean that he would need approximately 60% extra damage per second to take aggro. Enter hate generating skills. I'm not entirely familiar with tanks, but I believe they have a taunt that forces a critter to attack him for a certain amount of time. What this seems to me is that tanks should have the ability to take large amounts of damage without much consequence but without co-ordination of their taunt ability to take the harder hits, it's not as effective.
Sorry if that didn't make any sense, I'm also theorycrafting as I'm typing this.
the Rza - dog companion
Mindflayer
At 60 with Stalwart Bulwark gear (defensive gear) and Conquerer spec (damage spec) it's pretty easy to hold aggro while still acting as a tank and being the best character to mitigate damage with 45%+ damage reduction and over 20% chance to reduce damage by 50% with deflection. Mark doubles your threat and triples it with Enhanced Mark so it usually depends on the DPS you're running with. There's a few rogues out there who are able to greatly outpace double your damage but they're pretty rare. Even then there's nothing out there that should be able to outpace triple your damage.
The only real typical problems I have is when Mark falls off due to poor game mechanics, for example certain mobs in Spellplague Caverns have passive abilities that when they use them your Mark falls off so keeping Mark on them is pretty much impossible. You see this on other bosses such as Cragmire Crypts final boss where his teleport will remove Mark despite not damaging you.
The game isn't complete, that's the difference. How hard is this to understand?
Spoiler alert: pretty hard, I guess.
Name one MMO you thought was "complete" at their release?
I mean seriously, is this your first MMO game?
You are in denial that this game is live and complete but done with a sloppy design, terrible coding, and a non-concerned staff. Do you buy Zen?
Hello Brave New World ...
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
***The previous post is satirical in nature. I wonder how many people will actually get past the first sentence before they go all ballistic about removing their "key" feature?
Satire? No, truth.
Let your life proceed by its own designs
Nothing to tell
Let the words be yours, I'm done with mine ...
Neverwinter is not going to have any wipes from here on out. There will be no more clean slates. As such the game is NOT IN BETA. You can try to use whatever label you want to assuage your conscience, but it doesn't matter what you try to label something that doesn't exhibit the properties for that label. Its like trying to call a dog a cat. Sure you can do it, but it doesn't make a dog any more a cat.
This game is NOT in beta unless they are going to do a wipe. And if they do wipe for some reason, I want a refund of the money I spent thus far.
Honestly, the game has a lot going for it, but some idiotic game designs are hampering it majorly. Most of which has been summed up in this post.
-Queue system failing ( queue taking ages, not porting/letting people port into queued instances, giving people parties with 5 DPS and so on. )
-Loot system failing ( being able to need on another classes item, most item being BoE etc. )
-Rogue PvP damage being ridicilous
-Both Fighter -classes being unecessary and unneeded for both PvP and PvE
-Respeccing costing too much AD and costing Zen to beginwith
I believe 1,5 months is enough to fix all previously mentioned issues. If Cryptic/PWE fails to deliver, then I'll scrap the game and then probably the same will be done by my friends who I play with.
Granted there are some tiresome bugs, but again I'll remind you it is still BETA so report all bugs/exploits you find with as much info regarding the cause and such so they can be fixed promptly. Even though there is no more roll backs and the game could be considered live given that fact, doesn't really mean anything until PWI says the game is live, not before.
So, what's the point on all this?
The game is for me the most buggy & exploitable mmo i had ever seen and i played a lot of alpha/beta 's in the last 10 years. I mean real beta's
Or do you think the mass play the game for the Foundries people create, which have no features to script new boss fight or even place one? The most played foundries were used for xp / lvl grinding and please... doing foundries for 4k daily, herp derp...
I'm sure most players will exploit the game until CN and having some best in slot items and after that kkthxbye.
^^ IMHO <- !!! ^^
P.S.
Releasing a game until the lovely topic "Beta" to excuse all bugs/exploits seems to be working for most people! btw real alpha's and beta's have a wipeout so those deficiencies have no influence on the release.
Really? We had gold spammers and botters in the Closed Betas of Aion. I was there, I saw them.
Tell me 1 mmo without bot's and ingame currency seller's? I just ignore them since years.
I pointed this out occurring in Closed Beta. As to the bots/ingame currency sellers, I have played DDO for a few years, albeit more on a part time basis, but I have yet to receive in game mail, whispers, or had to block a spammer in chat. I had heard they'd had the problem, which does indeed exist in every other MMO I've played, some worse than others.
But saying this there are some huge issues with this game that if not fixed soon or before new content comes out then this game will die and the only people left will be those who spend so much real money they dont wanna feel its wasted and stick around.
Those problems are mostly from bugs, double cleric stacking there abilities is a huge one and one that needs fixing right away. Without this it a be very hard to complete some t2 dungeons right now, and thats also an issue, if the only way to really complete alot of content is by abusing game mechanics thats a huge oversight that needs looking into. Ive been on runs where we have had one of each class and then gone into another dungeon with double cleric and the differnce is night and day.
The other issue is pushing back mobs to kill the, fun sure and somthing you can keep in the game but it needs reducing 10fold right now as there just to many adds on bosses that it tends to be the only way to kill bosses. Id love to see somone beat the last boss in castle never without pushing adds off the edge, and that right there is a problem in itself is it not?
Bosses also need alot more thought going into new content, we cant just have boss spawns 1000 adds , then 1000 more adds at 30% , its fine for afew bosses somtimes but come on its not hard to come up with somthing new. We have great movement for classes , take advantage of that and come up with fun mechanics where we have to move and work togther more. The spider boss for example in lair of the spider, has some nice ideas, healing boss from her adds , but thats it. They could easy make it so her cob webs stick people and then drain your life and give it to her, so people have to stop what there doing and hack away the webbing to free the player and stop the healing. Have her spawn spiders only in spider phase, and not a million of them ect. I mean thats just off the top of my head
There other bugs ofc but these are the most anoying ones i find that can really kill the game if left unchecked, and they have already effected the economy to a huge exstent. I would have thought perfect world would be on this really quick. Because anyone who has abused these mechanics wont have any issues with making astral diomands to the point where there is no need to pay money for zen.
Still it saddens me abit that these things havnt been fixed yet. This game really has a chance to be great
All i had to do was Target -> Fear -> DoT -> DoT -> DoT -> Fear -> Wand -> Fear -> Drain Life.
People died without even leaving a CC. Because that was totally balanced. And you kids want to complain about a control wizard, who in all honesty, could CC you for about 3 seconds, but only do about 25% of your total HP in that 3 seconds.
I'm not even going to mention how most of the individuals on this thread are too cynical because they dont have a group competent enough to farm epic dungeons. You expect to down the difficult content in the first two weeks with 4 drunk apes sitting at a desk in mommies basement? Think again.
I just wanted to remind my fellow Vanilla WoWers that Warlocks were more broken than any class currently in Neverwinter. I believe we can stop saying that Neverwinter classes are unbalanced. Because Blizzard knows how to make classes imbalanced.
~Shoob
Honestly I expected that open beta will mean lot of/prolonged servers downtime. But I didn't expect heavy exploits, that stay in game after patches. (dungeon exploit - then close the F* dungeon 'till you will be able to repair bugs).
Game is so dead because it's so Pay2Win right?! /sarcasm
at any rate, I gave it a try and submitted some bug reports. I spent money on it so I'm definitely not done with it yet. I'll probably let it sit for a bit while they fix some stuff and play a little more next week.
As for your complaint number 1, some skills dont work in pvp.
2, they fixed it. it disconnects a player if they stay in spawn too long. (could be better)
3, its because of a lack of ranged DPS (Which they plan to add)
4, Most have been fixed( this is still beta may i remind you)
5, no its not, i can confirm they fixed it.
6, There is plenty of AD generation, the reason that prices are low right now is because of the founders pack buyers putting millions upon millions of new AD into the system.
8, there is plenty of Ingame content and i have a quote directly from a facebook comment that Neverwenter made "We plan on adding lots of challenging endgame content upon the official release"
9, i believe i already stated why 9 is wrong.