And I got to this point and stopped taking anything you had to say seriously. The game is live. It's released. You can keep calling it a beta, but there'll be zero more wipes and you are playing the released version of the game. It is no different than any other MMO Launch that's occurred in the last 14 years. Even the Perfect World game website shows the game as released and live.
Ignore the people complaining about PvP. Most of them still think Rogues are OP. Once the slower ones begin to understand how PvP works, you'll understand that it's more balanced than any other piece of MMO PvP you've ever experienced. Each class has their role to play, each as crucial as the other.
PvP is not the problem, it's incompetence that is creating problems.
Most of the people posting about how this game is dead are teenie-bopper know-it-alls that are more clueless than the skin that was removed at birth. My point being that these threads should be ignored by anyone who wishes to know anything worth a **** about the game.
Yes, bugs occur. As said before, the game has the beta tag on it for a reason. If you can't understand that, it isn't anyone else's problem except your own. Now, please, stop your mindless whining and clear some more t2's.
Your posts are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Your arrogance and inability to think on your own blow my mind. Just stop. Have you ever heard of the 'Mob Mentality'? It's a psyche occurance, just like when the first person claps at a terrible concert, or when people chase the monster around town with pitchforks. The weak minded clap too, because they think it's the right thing to do. You've been affected by this mob mentality, and believe that the game is dead, broken and unplayable because some other idjit said so.
When your mind finally develops, you'll understand that thinking on your own is more important than following someone else's ideas which have little to no validation.
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kimberixMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
PVP itself may not be the problem and it could be that many players do need to understand the mechanics of their character better
BUT
When you join games with AFK'ers or end up on a team that just wants to lose quickly so they can farm glory - what incentive is there to even try?
I was kicked from a group by the leader yesterday just for trying to fight the other group because we were already two people down and he complained I was just delaying the inevitable.
For some reason, (and I expect it's the free element), this game has attracted some quite obnoxious players who have absolutely no consideration for the rest of the people they play with and should never be allowed near any game that has MMO in its makeup.
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clockwerkninjaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I agree we have some huge issues, but proclaiming the game dying while in beta seems harsh.
I think in open beta the game is better shape than many major b2p p2p games at full launch..I know the aggravation,but I think we are still on track for an awesome game at launch....If Cryptic can funnel all of this feedback into some solid changes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
I agree we have some huge issues, but proclaiming the game dying while in beta seems harsh.
I think in open beta the game is better shape than many major b2p p2p games at full launch..I know the aggravation,but I think we are still on track for an awesome game at launch....If Cryptic can funnel all of this feedback into some solid changes.
Noone will miss you, but I'll see you back here when you realize it isn't as bad as you thought it was.
@kimberix
I do agree that the AFK problem is game-breaking, but the game is still in Beta, and I think this is the fact that everyone keeps over looking. While yes, it is technically a soft release, most games are only approximately 60-80% developed when they enter the open beta state. Things like this are going to occur, and any good company will deal with them accordingly (PWE has done this today actually, by adding a mechanic which removes AFK players.)
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maxpoweryoMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 20Arc User
edited May 2013
Lol guys stop with the beta pls. If i slap a pair of wings on my back and start calling myself a pigeon, does that make me a bird? Everyone can play NW, the real money shop is running, there will be no more wipes. The game is live. Cryptic can say whatever they want, but this game is not in beta.
Lol guys stop with the beta pls. If i slap a pair of wings on my back and start calling myself a pigeon, does that make me a bird? Everyone can play NW, the real money shop is running, there will be no more wipes. The game is live. Cryptic can say whatever they want, but this game is not in beta.
uhm thats the point of an OPEN beta... is that you make the servers live for the masses to play to get a more diverse testing group to find what is still wrong with the game and then they solve the problems... i wonder how many of the people who are repeatitively whining about every game that comes out saying that some little aspect of the game is breaking it and its dying... people have been saying wow is dying for 6 years but 6 years later oh look wow still have over 8 million subs... its pointless to suggestion within a month of a game releasing in an open beta state no less that it is dying or failing... the whole point of them doing so is to fix the game based on playing feedback not player *****ing...
thats why they open the forums up like this so you can voice your opinion however stupid it may be , most of the information if its valid will be taken into account and whatever can be fixed easily will be fixed as soon as possible and what cant well that stuff will be fixed over time, its a very simple concept.. id also like to point out EVERY game released online has some issue especially if its an open beta. I implore some of you people to play in an alpha or a closed beta... you'll see just how far a game actually progresses and maybe you wont be soo quick to insinuate things that really have no reason being thought of...
I enjoy the game , maybe others dont enjoy mmorpg style games or maybe some people like having everything handed to them who knows but the game is good the quest structure is great compared to alot of other games out there, character design is also done very well and the general gameplay is also very good, yes there are bugs but those are temporary ... anyways
Nine out of ten time thats what people go for in my experience with mmo's. I personally enjoy the pvp in neverwinter. I have yet to see a class that's truly unbalanced in pvp. All classes, so far, can either 1 shot or 2 shot you with the right combo.
It's up to the player to know how to handle himself in those situations.
That my very well be your experience, but hardly the truth or the facts. The fact is that there are almost 3x as many pve'rs then pvp'rs. It's just that pvp'rs, historicaly, complain more and louder.
Pvp'rs almost always start the post that start : " game sux, i'm done" or " to many bugs, i'm out" and of course "pvp is terrible, game will die".
On the other hand. Pve'rs will generaly ask about end game, maybe point out a few bugs and off suggestions to fixes. They will wait a bit and see what happens, if nothing happens . They just quietly leave.
So i guess what i'm saying is, give it a month. If nothing changes and only cash shop issues are dealt with. People will leave. But this wil not "force" pwe to do anything, i would be surprised if they actually did do anything. You have to understand there. business model. The short version is "grab as much money as fast as you can , from as many as you can, before they figure it out".
I'm trying to figure out what to even say to you to show how disgusted I am with your view on playing a game with friends. To recap (and make sure you know exactly what you said): "We should remove the ability for people to play with who they want because they're too good and kill everyone else in PvP. But it's okay, because if you're good at interacting with people you'll be fine".
You sir, have compiled so much idiot into one post that I believe North Korea just had a successful launch.
Do you seriously think that the devs havent made this same list plus some at the studio? What do you think happens at a game company? Do you think they play games all day? Because I can assure you that they do not.
I don't know. They rarely, if ever, make a post about what they are working or give any sort've feedback what-so-ever.
Gza the Genius - Elf Guardian Fighter
the Rza - dog companion
maybe some people like having everything handed to them who knows but the game is good the quest structure is great compared to alot of other games out there, character design is also done very well and the general gameplay is also very good, yes there are bugs but those are temporary ... anyways
cheers...
What character design?
Gza the Genius - Elf Guardian Fighter
the Rza - dog companion
Your posts are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Your arrogance and inability to think on your own blow my mind. Just stop. Have you ever heard of the 'Mob Mentality'? It's a psyche occurance, just like when the first person claps at a terrible concert, or when people chase the monster around town with pitchforks. The weak minded clap too, because they think it's the right thing to do. You've been affected by this mob mentality, and believe that the game is dead, broken and unplayable because some other idjit said so.
When your mind finally develops, you'll understand that thinking on your own is more important than following someone else's ideas which have little to no validation.
I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online back when I was a "teeny bopper know-it-all" and have seen countless MMOs come and go. I think I can safely speak with confidence on the topic of MMO games and what makes a successful one without the ridiculous notions of someone who's more concerned with the people posting than what they have to say.
I mean that's how you can really tell that your posts are worthless in this conversation, you don't actually address any of the points that are brought up but instead go after the people posting them (pointlessly I might add since you actually know nothing about the people other than blind assumptions). If you can't attack the message then attack the person spreading the message and all that.
Maybe one of these days you'll learn yourself how to have an intelligent, adult like conversation and actually discuss the matter at hand instead of trying to be dismissive of the people having the conversation. Maybe. I don't got much hope for ya based on what I've seen so far.
This post , make me think diferent then previous post ( the one before me ), in this link i post , they give the idea that the game was already release but still in open beta , they dint anounce the full version of the game , so only remains to think about this.
I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online back when I was a "teeny bopper know-it-all" and have seen countless MMOs come and go. I think I can safely speak with confidence on the topic of MMO games and what makes a successful one without the ridiculous notions of someone who's more concerned with the people posting than what they have to say.
I mean that's how you can really tell that your posts are worthless in this conversation, you don't actually address any of the points that are brought up but instead go after the people posting them (pointlessly I might add since you actually know nothing about the people other than blind assumptions). If you can't attack the message then attack the person spreading the message and all that.
Maybe one of these days you'll learn yourself how to have an intelligent, adult like conversation and actually discuss the matter at hand instead of trying to be dismissive of the people having the conversation. Maybe. I don't got much hope for ya based on what I've seen so far.
I address the facts presented before me if they are valid or have any contingency to the argument at hand. Each of your posts lack that. If you check the first page, you'll see that I address essentially every concern of the OP. Each of my posts respond in valid, intelligent conversations. The fact that I choose to address the personality behind the post has little to nothing to deal with my capability of having an "adult like conversation". I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.
I could turn around and say I've been playing games since Pong was science fiction, but that would make my arguments no more valid nor would they have more pull to the issues at hand. The fact that you even included that in your post blatantly shows that you're trying to gain approval or discredit my ability to respond. This is invalid in many ways, and if you've had any creditable debates over anything remotely important, you would understand that this is exactly what you don't want to do. (C WUT I DID THUR?)
I refuse to give you any more attention than necessary, so your next response to this post will be taken with a grain of salt and a sly smile.
There is no difference between beta and live anymore. Companies call their game an "open beta" so they don't get criticized for releasing garbage or bugged content. Are they going to wipe characters? No? K, it is live.
Gza the Genius - Elf Guardian Fighter
the Rza - dog companion
There is no difference between beta and live anymore. Companies call their game an "open beta" so they don't get criticized for releasing garbage or bugged content. Are they going to wipe characters? No? K, it is live.
I agree to an extent. Though each Beta release has their reasons. While some believe that it's used as a pillow for easier reviews and an excuse for failure, you need to realize that (as I've said before) software progresses in an essentially linear pattern. If you've noticed, PWE has produced patches for bugs nearly every day. This is the reason for open beta.
Most live games will not patch every day to fix bugs, because they are live. This is why the Beta tag is currently standing on the game.
There is only so much you can find in alpha or closed beta testing, the main reason behind this is the lack of traffic. When you drop thousands of people on a game, at least one of those people is going to find a bug that the other didn't. This makes for easy discovery and solutions to issues occuring in-game.
You can call it what you want, but the point of beta still remains.
the**** are you talking about? it's live, yeah the never winter site says it isn't live, it ****ing is.
Fixed.
I really do not understand the confusion on the issue.
1. The servers aren't being wiped of their current data.
2. The cash shop is in place and there is no refunds on what you buy.
3. You can purchase/download the game and play it as much as you want.
What you have there is a game release. It's the same thing that's been a game release as long as there's been games. By any definition past or present the game was released. Labeling or calling it something else does not change the fact it's a release.
If you still believe it's not a release and the game is an open beta, please explain what is the difference between this "open beta" and the release of any other game.
I understand what you are saying but this isn't 2002 anymore. Entire servers don't need to come down for a days worth of patching. GW2 patched all the **** time on their live release. Almost every day, sometimes multiple times a day. That is how technology has evolved. I won't argue because I don't know how this company does their patching or programs their software. All I can tell you is that this game isn't in a "testing" stage as much as some of these nerds want to believe.
Like that guy above me said: cash shops are open, no data will be reverted/wiped, and they are pretty much selling the game as it is live. No beta's I have been in were like that and I have been nerding through life since 1998.
Gza the Genius - Elf Guardian Fighter
the Rza - dog companion
I understand what you are saying but this isn't 2002 anymore. Entire servers don't need to come down for a days worth of patching. GW2 patched all the **** time on their live release. Almost every day, sometimes multiple times a day. That is how technology has evolved. I won't argue because I don't know how this company does their patching or programs their software. All I can tell you is that this game isn't in a "testing" stage as much as some of these nerds want to believe.
Most games release quickly due to lack of funding. Guild Wars II is a perfect example of this. They rushed their product and paid for it dearly due to their lack of funds. This game, however, is managing perfectly. Not only were they capable of releasing a cash shop, they were also capable of selling several packs for $200. The beta tag still has the same definition behind it, but they've learned how to capitalize and make profit while still during testing.
I have absolutely no problem with people who want to pay money to play the game. Generally, these models are fairly reasonable. I'm willing to pay $60 for a new game, seeing how that's the exact price you'd pay for a console game. But this isn't what we're discussing.
Either way, the "not beta, beta" argument is getting old. We could argue all day about who is right, but when thought about thoroughly, everyone is. It is a release, and it is a beta. Why people believe that it can't be both is beyond me.
I address the facts presented before me if they are valid or have any contingency to the argument at hand. Each of your posts lack that. If you check the first page, you'll see that I address essentially every concern of the OP. Each of my posts respond in valid, intelligent conversations. The fact that I choose to address the personality behind the post has little to nothing to deal with my capability of having an "adult like conversation". I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.
I could turn around and say I've been playing games since Pong was science fiction, but that would make my arguments no more valid nor would they have more pull to the issues at hand. The fact that you even included that in your post blatantly shows that you're trying to gain approval or discredit my ability to respond. This is invalid in many ways, and if you've had any creditable debates over anything remotely important, you would understand that this is exactly what you don't want to do. (C WUT I DID THUR?)
I refuse to give you any more attention than necessary, so your next response to this post will be taken with a grain of salt and a sly smile.
Actually if you weren't so dismissive and actually read what people post you'd see that not only do I present a logical and factual argument but I also have in game facts and proof to support said facts. That you claim they aren't there can only mean that you didn't even bother to read the posts you are replying to.
Instead of addressing said points, you instead decided to attack the person making those points. You continue to do so by being dismissive of what they have say. Being dismissive is incredibly childish and is tantamount to stinking your fingers in your ears and screaming, "lalalalala" as if somehow if you don't bother to read and or respond to the facts presented they don't exist. Unfortunately for you they do exist and continue to exist.
You know absolutely nothing about anyone you're responding to and in fact are making huge pseudo-intellectual assumptions regarding the character behind what they say. This makes you look hypocritical because you're implying people are dumb, childish or sheep with no basis which in fact dumb and childish.
Calling people idiots while acting like an idiot shows who the real idiot is.
thought this game was dying simply because its not good.
i find it hard to roll a GWF or GF knowing that rogues and CW are just better.
I can show you screenshots of GWF's doing about 75% of the damage that a Rogue can. Their ability to control adds in boss fights is unprecedented.
Guardian Fighters need a bit of work for the pve scene I do believe. the only time I've ever seen a GF hold aggro is by stacking power to insane amounts and just completely out damaging everyone else. Obviously at later levels and higher gear scores, this isn't possible (most gf's hold aggro for about 5 seconds after I start attacking it).
HOWEVER, these classes go in entirely different directions when played correctly in PvP. GWF's and GF's are probably the two strongest classes in PvP.
The main problem people are having with this game is their inability to adjust to it. It isn't a traditional MMO, and that's what makes it so unique. GF's and GWF's are probably the two hardest classes to learn how to play, mainly because they aren't as straight forward as other classes. I personally have yet to understand GF's full functionality (mainly because I haven't played one) but I'm sure sometime down the road their full potential will be discovered.
A buddy of mine recently discovered a nice spec for his GWF that makes him much more valuable in higher-end instances, where the extra damage, control and off-tank make the world of difference. People just need to start toying with their toons a bit more before saying that they're useless.
I can show you screenshots of GWF's doing about 75% of the damage that a Rogue can. Their ability to control adds in boss fights is unprecedented.
Guardian Fighters need a bit of work for the pve scene I do believe. the only time I've ever seen a GF hold aggro is by stacking power to insane amounts and just completely out damaging everyone else. Obviously at later levels and higher gear scores, this isn't possible (most gf's hold aggro for about 5 seconds after I start attacking it).
HOWEVER, these classes go in entirely different directions when played correctly in PvP. GWF's and GF's are probably the two strongest classes in PvP.
Well that makes it all better then, it does make sense that the 2 "tanking" classes excell at pvp and suc horribly at pve ....>-<
Comments
No it's not, it's in Beta. Here: http://nw.perfectworld.com/ have a cookie and learn how to read.
PvP is not the problem, it's incompetence that is creating problems.
Most of the people posting about how this game is dead are teenie-bopper know-it-alls that are more clueless than the skin that was removed at birth. My point being that these threads should be ignored by anyone who wishes to know anything worth a **** about the game.
Yes, bugs occur. As said before, the game has the beta tag on it for a reason. If you can't understand that, it isn't anyone else's problem except your own. Now, please, stop your mindless whining and clear some more t2's.
@arktourosx
Your posts are a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Your arrogance and inability to think on your own blow my mind. Just stop. Have you ever heard of the 'Mob Mentality'? It's a psyche occurance, just like when the first person claps at a terrible concert, or when people chase the monster around town with pitchforks. The weak minded clap too, because they think it's the right thing to do. You've been affected by this mob mentality, and believe that the game is dead, broken and unplayable because some other idjit said so.
When your mind finally develops, you'll understand that thinking on your own is more important than following someone else's ideas which have little to no validation.
BUT
When you join games with AFK'ers or end up on a team that just wants to lose quickly so they can farm glory - what incentive is there to even try?
I was kicked from a group by the leader yesterday just for trying to fight the other group because we were already two people down and he complained I was just delaying the inevitable.
For some reason, (and I expect it's the free element), this game has attracted some quite obnoxious players who have absolutely no consideration for the rest of the people they play with and should never be allowed near any game that has MMO in its makeup.
I think in open beta the game is better shape than many major b2p p2p games at full launch..I know the aggravation,but I think we are still on track for an awesome game at launch....If Cryptic can funnel all of this feedback into some solid changes.
Quote Originally Posted by roents
It's an "open beta" that can't be wiped even in the midst of multiple economy destroying exploits. FUN
Neverwinter is a 2/10 game for me. Won't recommend it to any of my friends and apologized to those I did recommend it in the past.
*cough* Guild Wars II *cough cough* Diablo III
--
@unirod
Noone will miss you, but I'll see you back here when you realize it isn't as bad as you thought it was.
@kimberix
I do agree that the AFK problem is game-breaking, but the game is still in Beta, and I think this is the fact that everyone keeps over looking. While yes, it is technically a soft release, most games are only approximately 60-80% developed when they enter the open beta state. Things like this are going to occur, and any good company will deal with them accordingly (PWE has done this today actually, by adding a mechanic which removes AFK players.)
uhm thats the point of an OPEN beta... is that you make the servers live for the masses to play to get a more diverse testing group to find what is still wrong with the game and then they solve the problems... i wonder how many of the people who are repeatitively whining about every game that comes out saying that some little aspect of the game is breaking it and its dying... people have been saying wow is dying for 6 years but 6 years later oh look wow still have over 8 million subs... its pointless to suggestion within a month of a game releasing in an open beta state no less that it is dying or failing... the whole point of them doing so is to fix the game based on playing feedback not player *****ing...
thats why they open the forums up like this so you can voice your opinion however stupid it may be , most of the information if its valid will be taken into account and whatever can be fixed easily will be fixed as soon as possible and what cant well that stuff will be fixed over time, its a very simple concept.. id also like to point out EVERY game released online has some issue especially if its an open beta. I implore some of you people to play in an alpha or a closed beta... you'll see just how far a game actually progresses and maybe you wont be soo quick to insinuate things that really have no reason being thought of...
I enjoy the game , maybe others dont enjoy mmorpg style games or maybe some people like having everything handed to them who knows but the game is good the quest structure is great compared to alot of other games out there, character design is also done very well and the general gameplay is also very good, yes there are bugs but those are temporary ... anyways
cheers...
That my very well be your experience, but hardly the truth or the facts. The fact is that there are almost 3x as many pve'rs then pvp'rs. It's just that pvp'rs, historicaly, complain more and louder.
Pvp'rs almost always start the post that start : " game sux, i'm done" or " to many bugs, i'm out" and of course "pvp is terrible, game will die".
On the other hand. Pve'rs will generaly ask about end game, maybe point out a few bugs and off suggestions to fixes. They will wait a bit and see what happens, if nothing happens . They just quietly leave.
So i guess what i'm saying is, give it a month. If nothing changes and only cash shop issues are dealt with. People will leave. But this wil not "force" pwe to do anything, i would be surprised if they actually did do anything. You have to understand there. business model. The short version is "grab as much money as fast as you can , from as many as you can, before they figure it out".
I'm trying to figure out what to even say to you to show how disgusted I am with your view on playing a game with friends. To recap (and make sure you know exactly what you said): "We should remove the ability for people to play with who they want because they're too good and kill everyone else in PvP. But it's okay, because if you're good at interacting with people you'll be fine".
You sir, have compiled so much idiot into one post that I believe North Korea just had a successful launch.
@maxpoweryo
This thread isn't about whether or not the game is in Beta. It is. Stop trying to figure it out before you blow a fuse.
http://www.perfectworld.com/ Hes right! Continue your cookie!
Shamelessly ripped off but to the point:
I don't know. They rarely, if ever, make a post about what they are working or give any sort've feedback what-so-ever.
the Rza - dog companion
Mindflayer
This is the point where I stopped reading.
You posted this at 2:55am BST, the patch with the fix for this bug isn't live whilst I'm typing this 14 hours and 20 minutes later.
The patch yesterday was for the Control Wizard version of the bug.
I read your post with dramatic BUM BUM DUMMMMMM music. Dunno why ._.
What character design?
the Rza - dog companion
Mindflayer
I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online back when I was a "teeny bopper know-it-all" and have seen countless MMOs come and go. I think I can safely speak with confidence on the topic of MMO games and what makes a successful one without the ridiculous notions of someone who's more concerned with the people posting than what they have to say.
I mean that's how you can really tell that your posts are worthless in this conversation, you don't actually address any of the points that are brought up but instead go after the people posting them (pointlessly I might add since you actually know nothing about the people other than blind assumptions). If you can't attack the message then attack the person spreading the message and all that.
Maybe one of these days you'll learn yourself how to have an intelligent, adult like conversation and actually discuss the matter at hand instead of trying to be dismissive of the people having the conversation. Maybe. I don't got much hope for ya based on what I've seen so far.
This post , make me think diferent then previous post ( the one before me ), in this link i post , they give the idea that the game was already release but still in open beta , they dint anounce the full version of the game , so only remains to think about this.
I address the facts presented before me if they are valid or have any contingency to the argument at hand. Each of your posts lack that. If you check the first page, you'll see that I address essentially every concern of the OP. Each of my posts respond in valid, intelligent conversations. The fact that I choose to address the personality behind the post has little to nothing to deal with my capability of having an "adult like conversation". I'm sorry, but you're an idiot.
I could turn around and say I've been playing games since Pong was science fiction, but that would make my arguments no more valid nor would they have more pull to the issues at hand. The fact that you even included that in your post blatantly shows that you're trying to gain approval or discredit my ability to respond. This is invalid in many ways, and if you've had any creditable debates over anything remotely important, you would understand that this is exactly what you don't want to do. (C WUT I DID THUR?)
I refuse to give you any more attention than necessary, so your next response to this post will be taken with a grain of salt and a sly smile.
the Rza - dog companion
Mindflayer
I agree to an extent. Though each Beta release has their reasons. While some believe that it's used as a pillow for easier reviews and an excuse for failure, you need to realize that (as I've said before) software progresses in an essentially linear pattern. If you've noticed, PWE has produced patches for bugs nearly every day. This is the reason for open beta.
Most live games will not patch every day to fix bugs, because they are live. This is why the Beta tag is currently standing on the game.
There is only so much you can find in alpha or closed beta testing, the main reason behind this is the lack of traffic. When you drop thousands of people on a game, at least one of those people is going to find a bug that the other didn't. This makes for easy discovery and solutions to issues occuring in-game.
You can call it what you want, but the point of beta still remains.
Fixed.
I really do not understand the confusion on the issue.
1. The servers aren't being wiped of their current data.
2. The cash shop is in place and there is no refunds on what you buy.
3. You can purchase/download the game and play it as much as you want.
What you have there is a game release. It's the same thing that's been a game release as long as there's been games. By any definition past or present the game was released. Labeling or calling it something else does not change the fact it's a release.
If you still believe it's not a release and the game is an open beta, please explain what is the difference between this "open beta" and the release of any other game.
Like that guy above me said: cash shops are open, no data will be reverted/wiped, and they are pretty much selling the game as it is live. No beta's I have been in were like that and I have been nerding through life since 1998.
the Rza - dog companion
Mindflayer
Most games release quickly due to lack of funding. Guild Wars II is a perfect example of this. They rushed their product and paid for it dearly due to their lack of funds. This game, however, is managing perfectly. Not only were they capable of releasing a cash shop, they were also capable of selling several packs for $200. The beta tag still has the same definition behind it, but they've learned how to capitalize and make profit while still during testing.
I have absolutely no problem with people who want to pay money to play the game. Generally, these models are fairly reasonable. I'm willing to pay $60 for a new game, seeing how that's the exact price you'd pay for a console game. But this isn't what we're discussing.
Either way, the "not beta, beta" argument is getting old. We could argue all day about who is right, but when thought about thoroughly, everyone is. It is a release, and it is a beta. Why people believe that it can't be both is beyond me.
Actually if you weren't so dismissive and actually read what people post you'd see that not only do I present a logical and factual argument but I also have in game facts and proof to support said facts. That you claim they aren't there can only mean that you didn't even bother to read the posts you are replying to.
Instead of addressing said points, you instead decided to attack the person making those points. You continue to do so by being dismissive of what they have say. Being dismissive is incredibly childish and is tantamount to stinking your fingers in your ears and screaming, "lalalalala" as if somehow if you don't bother to read and or respond to the facts presented they don't exist. Unfortunately for you they do exist and continue to exist.
You know absolutely nothing about anyone you're responding to and in fact are making huge pseudo-intellectual assumptions regarding the character behind what they say. This makes you look hypocritical because you're implying people are dumb, childish or sheep with no basis which in fact dumb and childish.
Calling people idiots while acting like an idiot shows who the real idiot is.
i find it hard to roll a GWF or GF knowing that rogues and CW are just better.
I can show you screenshots of GWF's doing about 75% of the damage that a Rogue can. Their ability to control adds in boss fights is unprecedented.
Guardian Fighters need a bit of work for the pve scene I do believe. the only time I've ever seen a GF hold aggro is by stacking power to insane amounts and just completely out damaging everyone else. Obviously at later levels and higher gear scores, this isn't possible (most gf's hold aggro for about 5 seconds after I start attacking it).
HOWEVER, these classes go in entirely different directions when played correctly in PvP. GWF's and GF's are probably the two strongest classes in PvP.
The main problem people are having with this game is their inability to adjust to it. It isn't a traditional MMO, and that's what makes it so unique. GF's and GWF's are probably the two hardest classes to learn how to play, mainly because they aren't as straight forward as other classes. I personally have yet to understand GF's full functionality (mainly because I haven't played one) but I'm sure sometime down the road their full potential will be discovered.
A buddy of mine recently discovered a nice spec for his GWF that makes him much more valuable in higher-end instances, where the extra damage, control and off-tank make the world of difference. People just need to start toying with their toons a bit more before saying that they're useless.