Or you could plan your character and have no need to respec .
Very few people coming into the game who HAVEN'T played beta WILL screw up their skills in one way or another; myself included because I want to see what all the skills do rather than jump on forums and look at build guides of a game I haven't played.
This is a crutch argument that holds no water.
Respecs should not be this expensive; or at the very least not cost Zen.
Very few people coming into the game who HAVEN'T played beta WILL screw up their skills in one way or another.
This is a crutch argument that holds no water.
Respecs should not be this expensive; or at the very least not cost Zen.
I agree with this tho, like I said before in this thread, I am very okay with a form of cash shop in a game, with vanity items. I can't be bothered with a fancy mount or skins or whatever. But people WILL screw up. You can't just expect people to make their perfect build from the first try. Skills will change, are over/underpowered or are broken... That's why it's beta. So more or less, I expected some sort of "one time free respec" or lowered costs during beta. But since we ain't getting it, I just suck it up and farm. Still strikes me as weird/silly that I can't respec at will, or I need to pay/wait and farm for it. That's the ONLY thing that has been a little bit annoying. But oh well.
Tip 1: Take a new character to level 27. Do the lynching tree quest. Get a master asset from the box. Sell that asset for 100,000 astral diamonds.
Convert the 100,000 to 300 zen. Halfway there!
Tip 2: You are level 45. By the time you hit 60 you have points in things you will never use. Find the 8 abilities you want from here on, 2 dailies, 4 encounters and 2 passives and then max them. You'll still have points left over.
Tip 3: Complaining is great when its constructive and useful, yours is not and nor is it in the right place or the right format to matter at all. There are solutions to your problems. It took me 10 seconds to come up with two.
Everyone complaining about the cost of a respec token using the AD to Zen conversion method is forgetting one vital thing.
The Playerbase determines the rate of conversion, and that rate of conversion can go as low as 25 AD per Zen. Right now then price is high, I admit that hovering around 400 AD/zen. But it will go lower as time goes on. Also The 400 isn't really that bad compared to Cryptic's other games and their conversions.
Both STO and CO have similar currencies. Yet they are limited to refining only 8000 a day. That means at 200 per zen (the going rate on those games) they can only get 40 zen per day. Where here we have a 24000 AD refine limit. So even at 400 AD/zen we can still get 60 zen per day, one and a half times as much. And when prices drop the difference will be even higher.
This just in: SWTOR is claiming increased earnings versus a sub pricing structure off their 500k players. So guess what? The $6 respecs are here to stay. It'll always be this way until the fools who dump their settlement monies on over-priced standard stuff just to play a game stops.
Everyone complaining about the cost of a respec token using the AD to Zen conversion method is forgetting one vital thing.
The Playerbase determines the rate of conversion, and that rate of conversion can go as low as 25 AD per Zen. Right now then price is high, I admit that hovering around 400 AD/zen. But it will go lower as time goes on. Also The 400 isn't really that bad compared to Cryptic's other games and their conversions.
Both STO and CO have similar currencies. Yet they are limited to refining only 8000 a day. That means at 200 per zen (the going rate on those games) they can only get 40 zen per day. Where here we have a 24000 AD refine limit. So even at 400 AD/zen we can still get 60 zen per day, one and a half times as much. And when prices drop the difference will be even higher.
This game is the one we're discussing. The arguments aren't negated by the fact you CAN eventually earn enough AD to convert.
The argument is that many believe that respecs being as important to a lot of players as they are, should not cost zen in the first place and that they feel more like a cash grab than most things and are indicative of bad monetizaton.
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oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
You've got to be kidding.
Win at what? This PvE.
Who cares how other people get what they got?
Jesus lord these threads are stupid.
"If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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drenchkatMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 40Arc User
You can probably make the 200k or so AD by the time you are 45...BUUUT the problem with that is you need AD for other things in the game. If you spend all your AD on a respec, you start from 0 for all the other things you need.
You can EASILY make over 100k AD a day selling items and watching the Auction House. If you want extra stuff in the game then you have to work for it.
The game is 100% FREE. Lets keep in mind on how much content is given to players for literally NOTHING. You want a little extra and dont feel like working for it, then spend $6, $10, OR $60. The game is well worth the typical $60 pricetag that is on almost everygame that is released that has about a 10hr lifespan.
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jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
To begin, let me say that I thought I needed 20 points to unlock the third rank of a power. Apparently this is not true. I am now level 45 with rank 2 in every power. This is not good. I will now be inferior to every single wizard in the game. How do I fix this? Spend $6. Spend $6 and be up to par with the other wizards. Even if I didn't make the mistake of unlocking rank 2 of every power, I still would have made some mistakes in powers I didn't want.
The cash shop as it is currently is ridiculous. It is pay-to-win. Cosmetic stuff? Dyes? Outfits? Mounts? Astral Diamonds? Companions? Fine. But the ability to respec? That's just way over the line. Cryptic, you're restricting us from choosing our skills. Please change this.
Just because you CAN buy a cash shop items for $10 doesn't mean you HAVE too. You can grind up the AD and get the respec as well.
Just because you CAN get ZEN with cash and AD with ZEN does NOT mean that AD = Cash. You need to stop thinking that they are taking your cash out of your wallet because they are letting you buy things with AD.
You can EITHER buy cash shop items with the zen you get from cash OR you can buy it with the ZEN you get from exchanging AD.
AD!=Cash so stop pretending that the AD you earn in game is irrelevant or automatically treated as cash. NO ONE can pull money from your wallet unless YOU want to spend it.
If you don't like the prices in the shop then don't pay cash for them. If you think the AD cost of zen is too high then complain that people are asking too much for ZEN on the AD/Zen exchange. The price of AD/Zen has already come down to 380:1 from 500:1. It will likely continue to fall until it reaches a comfortable balance. That DOESN'T mean that you have to buy things with Cash.
Charging to redo every little thing on a character is plain wrong. To me its not about how much it is, its about charging people to figure out what the best combination of abilities for their playstyle is. And for the inevitable folks who will talk about how you can grind for it in game which seems to be the main justification for p2w, having to grind for weeks to figure out what your character abilities do is unreasonable.
You can EASILY make over 100k AD a day selling items and watching the Auction House. If you want extra stuff in the game then you have to work for it.
The game is 100% FREE. Lets keep in mind on how much content is given to players for literally NOTHING. You want a little extra and dont feel like working for it, then spend $6, $10, OR $60. The game is well worth the typical $60 pricetag that is on almost everygame that is released that has about a 10hr lifespan.
The quality of a game is a subjective matter really. Can't just throw that out as fact, when it's really just an opinion, same as the opinion that respecs costing zen fell too restrictive and diminish the quality of the game.
The "easily" part is not a guaranteed, and the economy being designed the way it is will eventually mean that making THAT amount of AD a day, won't always be as possible and given that AD can only lose value as more and more of it is introduced into the market means that you'll get a lot less zen for your AD.
Respecs don't make this game pay to win. The fact that you can raise the fusion chance from 1% to 100% with a ward which is purchased using Zen makes this game pay to win.
Some may claim this is pay for convenience, because there is still a 1% chance to succeed without spending money, and because technically you have a chance to obtain a ward once per week (by exchanging 7 celestial tokens.) However, I would argue that when the "convenience" factor is the difference between a 1% chance and a GUARANTEED SUCCESS, then that has become pay to win.
-Travail.
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Respecs don't make this game pay to win. The fact that you can raise the fusion chance from 1% to 100% with a ward which is purchased using Zen makes this game pay to win.
Some may claim this is pay for convenience, because there is still a 1% chance to succeed without spending money, and because technically you have a chance to obtain a ward once per week (by exchanging 7 celestial tokens.) However, I would argue that when the "convenience" factor is the difference between a 1% chance and a GUARANTEED SUCCESS, then that has become pay to win.
-Travail.
Those are TERRIBLE design, but they are being sold on the AH, not sure what they're going for now but they were being oddly auctioned starting at something like 1500AD starting bid... Keep an eye on them though so you can see if they jump in price, or something dodgy is done with them. Seems far too good to be true.
Respecs don't make this game pay to win. The fact that you can raise the fusion chance from 1% to 100% with a ward which is purchased using Zen makes this game pay to win.
Some may claim this is pay for convenience, because there is still a 1% chance to succeed without spending money, and because technically you have a chance to obtain a ward once per week (by exchanging 7 celestial tokens.) However, I would argue that when the "convenience" factor is the difference between a 1% chance and a GUARANTEED SUCCESS, then that has become pay to win.
-Travail.
Except that Zen is not the only way to get said wards, so that doesn't quite count. Granted you'd have 2 chances a week (counting both alts) to get that ward, but still..
Those are TERRIBLE design, but they are being sold on the AH, not sure what they're going for now but they were being oddly auctioned starting at something like 1500AD starting bid... Keep an eye on them though so you can see if they jump in price, or something dodgy is done with them. Seems far too good to be true.
Hm... just an offthought, but since this is F2P and those wards can somewhat easily be gotten from celestial coin trading, possibly it's from someone making multiple accounts? (note: please don't make multiple accounts. It'd just make people dislike you. And also against ToS)
Those are TERRIBLE design, but they are being sold on the AH, not sure what they're going for now but they were being oddly auctioned starting at something like 1500AD starting bid... Keep an eye on them though so you can see if they jump in price, or something dodgy is done with them. Seems far too good to be true.
Um you must be talking about Preservation Wards… the ones you want for 'fixing' the 1% chance are the Coalescent Wards, and they currently go for about 100K.
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jorealMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Um you must be talking about Preservation Wards… the ones you want for 'fixing' the 1% chance are the Coalescent Wards, and they currently go for about 100K.
And they will continue to go down in price as more and more people farm up the 7 coin tokens and buy them with AD and buy them with Cash and resell them. This is all just volatile market <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at the beginning of the game. Everything is always overpriced at the beginning of games until it all settles down.
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vesolcMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 5Arc User
So running dungeons that take 30-40 minutes if u know what ur doing means u have no life? u could do 3 a day after work and socializing. ur telling me theres not millions of ppl who sit in front a tv instead of a pc for hours on end out there? get real
Id call u a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> but thatd be insulting mentally challenged
Who are you ? Did I say anything to you ? I was just joking with riven84. Who is now <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
Um you must be talking about Preservation Wards… the ones you want for 'fixing' the 1% chance are the Coalescent Wards, and they currently go for about 100K.
No, there was coalescent wards which were listed as their initial asking price at around 1600AD when I checked them the other day after it was brought to my attention.
Respecs don't make this game pay to win. The fact that you can raise the fusion chance from 1% to 100% with a ward which is purchased using Zen makes this game pay to win.
Some may claim this is pay for convenience, because there is still a 1% chance to succeed without spending money, and because technically you have a chance to obtain a ward once per week (by exchanging 7 celestial tokens.) However, I would argue that when the "convenience" factor is the difference between a 1% chance and a GUARANTEED SUCCESS, then that has become pay to win.
-Travail.
Yes exactly. At some point the "you can earn it in game" argument becomes completely absurd, and a 1616 shard grind on average (and this is not missing one day of playing), compared to 100% success crosses that line of absurdity at about the halfway point. This is also for one detail of the game, and isnt even getting into all the other stuff one could be doing that they can also pay for.
Yes exactly. At some point the "you can earn it in game" argument becomes completely absurd, and a 1616 shard grind on average (and this is not missing one day of playing), compared to 100% success crosses that line of absurdity at about the halfway point. This is also for one detail of the game, and isnt even getting into all the other stuff one could be doing that they can also pay for.
Did you not understand anything that was said regarding this, or did you just conveniently choose to ignore the truth?
I'll spell it out for you: it's much faster to farm 16 shards, and the AD needed to buy the C-Wards, than it is to farm the ~1616 shards.
Did you not understand anything that was said regarding this, or did you just conveniently choose to ignore the truth?
I'll spell it out for you: it's much faster to farm 16 shards, and the AD needed to buy the C-Wards, than it is to farm the ~1616 shards.
Not really much of a difference. The "you can get it in game" argument still isnt a justifiction when youre still comparing insane amounts of grind -vs- simply paying. Those wanting to rules lawyering the definition of p2w need to consider the reasonability of what it actually means to farm all this stuff in game timewise rather than just doing so on an item by item basis. As for conveniently ignoring the truth, Im not the one who fell into the trap, or trying to justify it. The fact that it CAN be farmed in game doesnt make it reasonable timewise to do so.
Oh, and not completely agreeing with you =/= lack of understanding.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
edited May 2013
You don't need a respec token to respec your powers or your feats. Each of those tabs has a respec button that if you hit will charge you Astral Diamonds.
The token respecs your entire character in one shot.
Oh, and not completely agreeing with you =/= lack of understanding.
Indeed, but you implied that you have farm ~1616 shards, which is far from the most efficient way to do it without paying. At least be honest about that.
You don't need a respec token to respec your powers or your feats. Each of those tabs has a respec button that if you hit will charge you Astral Diamonds.
Comments
This is a crutch argument that holds no water.
Respecs should not be this expensive; or at the very least not cost Zen.
PC specs: http://forum.daow.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4#p99
If 1 hour/day for dungeons is "no life" for you, then you sir better get your wallet ready if you want to get above quest greens level.
I agree with this tho, like I said before in this thread, I am very okay with a form of cash shop in a game, with vanity items. I can't be bothered with a fancy mount or skins or whatever. But people WILL screw up. You can't just expect people to make their perfect build from the first try. Skills will change, are over/underpowered or are broken... That's why it's beta. So more or less, I expected some sort of "one time free respec" or lowered costs during beta. But since we ain't getting it, I just suck it up and farm.
Convert the 100,000 to 300 zen. Halfway there!
Tip 2: You are level 45. By the time you hit 60 you have points in things you will never use. Find the 8 abilities you want from here on, 2 dailies, 4 encounters and 2 passives and then max them. You'll still have points left over.
Tip 3: Complaining is great when its constructive and useful, yours is not and nor is it in the right place or the right format to matter at all. There are solutions to your problems. It took me 10 seconds to come up with two.
The Playerbase determines the rate of conversion, and that rate of conversion can go as low as 25 AD per Zen. Right now then price is high, I admit that hovering around 400 AD/zen. But it will go lower as time goes on. Also The 400 isn't really that bad compared to Cryptic's other games and their conversions.
Both STO and CO have similar currencies. Yet they are limited to refining only 8000 a day. That means at 200 per zen (the going rate on those games) they can only get 40 zen per day. Where here we have a 24000 AD refine limit. So even at 400 AD/zen we can still get 60 zen per day, one and a half times as much. And when prices drop the difference will be even higher.
This game is the one we're discussing. The arguments aren't negated by the fact you CAN eventually earn enough AD to convert.
The argument is that many believe that respecs being as important to a lot of players as they are, should not cost zen in the first place and that they feel more like a cash grab than most things and are indicative of bad monetizaton.
Win at what? This PvE.
Who cares how other people get what they got?
Jesus lord these threads are stupid.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You can EASILY make over 100k AD a day selling items and watching the Auction House. If you want extra stuff in the game then you have to work for it.
The game is 100% FREE. Lets keep in mind on how much content is given to players for literally NOTHING. You want a little extra and dont feel like working for it, then spend $6, $10, OR $60. The game is well worth the typical $60 pricetag that is on almost everygame that is released that has about a 10hr lifespan.
Just because you CAN buy a cash shop items for $10 doesn't mean you HAVE too. You can grind up the AD and get the respec as well.
Just because you CAN get ZEN with cash and AD with ZEN does NOT mean that AD = Cash. You need to stop thinking that they are taking your cash out of your wallet because they are letting you buy things with AD.
You can EITHER buy cash shop items with the zen you get from cash OR you can buy it with the ZEN you get from exchanging AD.
AD!=Cash so stop pretending that the AD you earn in game is irrelevant or automatically treated as cash. NO ONE can pull money from your wallet unless YOU want to spend it.
If you don't like the prices in the shop then don't pay cash for them. If you think the AD cost of zen is too high then complain that people are asking too much for ZEN on the AD/Zen exchange. The price of AD/Zen has already come down to 380:1 from 500:1. It will likely continue to fall until it reaches a comfortable balance. That DOESN'T mean that you have to buy things with Cash.
The quality of a game is a subjective matter really. Can't just throw that out as fact, when it's really just an opinion, same as the opinion that respecs costing zen fell too restrictive and diminish the quality of the game.
The "easily" part is not a guaranteed, and the economy being designed the way it is will eventually mean that making THAT amount of AD a day, won't always be as possible and given that AD can only lose value as more and more of it is introduced into the market means that you'll get a lot less zen for your AD.
Some may claim this is pay for convenience, because there is still a 1% chance to succeed without spending money, and because technically you have a chance to obtain a ward once per week (by exchanging 7 celestial tokens.) However, I would argue that when the "convenience" factor is the difference between a 1% chance and a GUARANTEED SUCCESS, then that has become pay to win.
-Travail.
Those are TERRIBLE design, but they are being sold on the AH, not sure what they're going for now but they were being oddly auctioned starting at something like 1500AD starting bid... Keep an eye on them though so you can see if they jump in price, or something dodgy is done with them. Seems far too good to be true.
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Hm... just an offthought, but since this is F2P and those wards can somewhat easily be gotten from celestial coin trading, possibly it's from someone making multiple accounts? (note: please don't make multiple accounts. It'd just make people dislike you. And also against ToS)
This is an open beta. Start treating it like one.
Um you must be talking about Preservation Wards… the ones you want for 'fixing' the 1% chance are the Coalescent Wards, and they currently go for about 100K.
And they will continue to go down in price as more and more people farm up the 7 coin tokens and buy them with AD and buy them with Cash and resell them. This is all just volatile market <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> at the beginning of the game. Everything is always overpriced at the beginning of games until it all settles down.
Who are you ? Did I say anything to you ? I was just joking with riven84. Who is now <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
No, there was coalescent wards which were listed as their initial asking price at around 1600AD when I checked them the other day after it was brought to my attention.
Yes exactly. At some point the "you can earn it in game" argument becomes completely absurd, and a 1616 shard grind on average (and this is not missing one day of playing), compared to 100% success crosses that line of absurdity at about the halfway point. This is also for one detail of the game, and isnt even getting into all the other stuff one could be doing that they can also pay for.
Did you not understand anything that was said regarding this, or did you just conveniently choose to ignore the truth?
I'll spell it out for you: it's much faster to farm 16 shards, and the AD needed to buy the C-Wards, than it is to farm the ~1616 shards.
Not really much of a difference. The "you can get it in game" argument still isnt a justifiction when youre still comparing insane amounts of grind -vs- simply paying. Those wanting to rules lawyering the definition of p2w need to consider the reasonability of what it actually means to farm all this stuff in game timewise rather than just doing so on an item by item basis. As for conveniently ignoring the truth, Im not the one who fell into the trap, or trying to justify it. The fact that it CAN be farmed in game doesnt make it reasonable timewise to do so.
Oh, and not completely agreeing with you =/= lack of understanding.
The token respecs your entire character in one shot.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Indeed, but you implied that you have farm ~1616 shards, which is far from the most efficient way to do it without paying. At least be honest about that.
Wrong.
/10char