When you have to take Impossible to Catch for an encounter, would you recommend dropping Lashing Blade for it or Wicked Reminder? I do see you mentioned dropping Lashing Blade and that does make sense since the goal is to stay on top of the boss. Staying on top of the boss means you can refresh the Wicked Reminder stacks, etc etc. Would that leave my loadout at ItC/SS/WR, then?
So the book of shadows tell:
"The weak will always obey the master."
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
I'm looking to get 3/3 Toughness to beef up my hp to survive necrotic dmg instagibs when my dodges fail due to latency.
I'm thinking of dropping either Scoundrel Training or two points of Cunning Ambusher and going for HP defensive enchants, should get me to around ~25-26k hp which should be enough to survive Hands and Xivros initial 8k+16k circle damage (that sometimes hits me after I've dodged out and moved away for 1s+)
Scoundrel seems like a obvious choice, but I'm not sure how Cunning Ambusher stacks up against it.
Or is there some other heroic feat you'd drop instead?
Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
Ok i'm sorry being a **** that just started but after printing all this article to follow built and a careful reading later, but saw enough to drop this question:
How come you guys can have so many actions and i only have 3 action buttons for habilities? (Q,E,R)
Ok i'm sorry being a **** that just started but after printing all this article to follow built and a careful reading later, but saw enough to drop this question:
How come you guys can have so many actions and i only have 3 action buttons for habilities? (Q,E,R)
You have 2 dailies (1 and 2) and 2 at-wills (left and right mouse buttons) on top of that. And you can always swap all of them to adapt for some specific situation. Where you got the idea that we have more action slots anyway?
Bumping this because I had a TR tell me that Power is everything in dungeons. I can't believe people still buy into that but you can't blame them though due to gear having a lot of power and people get blinded by big numbers.
Bumping this because I had a TR tell me that Power is everything in dungeons. I can't believe people still buy into that but you can't blame them though due to gear having a lot of power and people get blinded by big numbers.
The thing is this guy is right, power is everything in dungeons to a TR. It doesn't matter if you have 1 crit% or 0 recovery as long as your bleed hits hard even once on 10th stack on a boss. When that happens the only thing you must do is maintain the bleed and the boss goes down fast.
The thing is this guy is right, power is everything in dungeons to a TR. It doesn't matter if you have 1 crit% or 0 recovery as long as your bleed hits hard even once on 10th stack on a boss. When that happens the only thing you must do is maintain the bleed and the boss goes down fast.
The thing is you're wrong. Armor penetration beats power anyday of the week. Power scales horribly. So many misinformed people on their own class.
The thing is you're wrong. Armor penetration beats power anyday of the week. Power scales horribly. So many misinformed people on their own class.
I don't main rogue. But lets play with numbers, if you get 20k bleed ticking on a boss, which is not affected by armor pen according to ops post, so during lurkers that bleed does probably 80-90% of all the damage you do. So 80-90% of your damage is not affected by armor penetration, so its always a good idea to push armor pen to super high numbers. Then we count that the remaining 20% of your damage does roughly 20% more damage which means overall 4% more damage for 2400 stat points.
Since rogues primary job is killing boss monsters, then the bleed damage is what matters the most. Even in normal fights bleed does over 50% of a damage during dungeon runs even when counting all of the trash mobs, so at most the armor pen does is increase damage by 10%. Sure I admit the power scales bad if its roughly 1 damage for 25 points, 2.5k power => 100 damage is roughly around 10% more damage if I assume daggers damage is about 1k total and the 10% is about equal to armor pen. The only difference is that you do MORE damage on bosses.
Edit: But if the bleed is affected by armor pen, then armor pen beats power hands down.
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kindathMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 2Arc User
edited May 2013
The bleed itself may not be effected by armor pen, but if the bleed damage is determined by some percentage of the hit that caused the bleed (as the data seems to imply), then having more armor pen will certainly increase the size of the bleed.
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Just a update on Toughness 3/3, It only buffs your base hp, the additional hp from gear doesn't get multiplied.
Kinda bummer, but I still managed to get up to 25354, which isn't too bad.
Might be enough to survive on Xivros, but I'll have to test it out.
Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
Is it bad to pick the Tiefling or Halfling for TR? As in, will I be shunned from dungeons because I didn't pick Half-Orc or Human? I'd rather pick the former classes as they look cooler, but I don't want to be left out of content because I'm not min-maxing properly.
On the armor pen thing: The whole reason armor pen is so good in the first place has very little to do with it being a 1% damage buff per 1% armor pen. It's value is because once you remove the enemy's damage reduction all defense/ damage reduction debuffs translate directly into damage buffs. But ya 22% damage buff from 2200 stats isn't bad either.
But ya from the data I had looked through the bleed damage is in some way related to the damage of the hit applying the bleed. So that implies that the bleed does directly benefit from armor penetration.
@darqwonders I doubt anyone is taking this game seriously enough to shun you if you aren't min maxing. If you can't dodge red circles on the floor though, that will probably be different.
Updated to reflect that recovery should not actually be stacked to the DR point of 2900. Also updated to reflect corrected math for crit rating breakpoints.
First, what do you use on thrash mobs? Just blitz and try to stop DF on third stack so you dont fall when CW throws mobs over? I seen another rogue use path of the blade.
Secondly, how are people staying on the boss long enough to get big bleed numbers? Take for instance the pirate king final boss. He teleports and does a ton of aoe dmg. So if he teleports you lose out on dmg. If you use impossible to catch, what do you do a few seconds later when he does another aoe? Are you guys rolling into the boss as to dodge the dmg but still be close enough to keep up bleed damage? I'm not that brave
Rolling into the boss is one good method to maintain uptime. If you roll directly into the character model during the attack you take no damage and lose no ground on the boss. Takes a bit of practice to get the timing though.
Anyone who is being honest will tell you that on high movement bosses the bleed is dropping though. Sometimes you just can't do much about it. But the biggest priority among everything you do is to maintain your bleed on the boss. If you DPS with that in mind then usually you can keep it going, except in the most extreme of circumstances.
Basically: If you open correctly, then just spam flurry as much as possible the rest of the fight, you won't lose that much dps over trying to work in everything else (though 20% from wicked reminder is pretty important).
poons1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Great guide Sol - Could I quickly ask about Invisible Infiltrator?
In the guide itself the Invisible Infiltrator section is under the title "Other Skills (And why you generally should not use them)" which suggests its not really worth looking at and yet the description describes it as the best passive to take for boss encounters. So the question is - Is Invisible Infiltrator an absolute MUST have and if so could it be moved to a slightly less confusing place in the guide ?
I left it there because it's "Generally". I guess that's confusing. But it's only really worth using for boss battles, and as random as the bleed damage actually is I am not entirely sure that it's not just better to take tactics. If the bleed damage actually followed some sort of definable rule, or really made freaking sense in any way, then invisible infiltrator would get a better spot from me. As it stands, it should be great, but due to how random the bleed is it ends up a bit meh.
Personally I'm using inv. Infiltrator together with tactics for boss fights - still thinking only the 10th stack is important and so I use as opener mostly WR - DF with stealth - WR - Lurker - DF+stealth (if 10th stack is reached, just normal Dmg rotation, otherwise next DF and let WR drop). Of course a bit depending on the boss. Not really satisfied with skillful infiltrator for boss fight. 15% movespeed is kind of useless (at least you should be able to just stand infront of the boss normally..), 3% deflect well you should avoid getting hit anyway otherwise we got stealth/ItC and the only good thing left is 3% crit.. prefering the 15% Dmg bonus here and 15% AP reg for more lurker.
Tried shadow strike, didn't use it before. Quite usefull to be honest e.g. at last frozen boss or spellplague - in terms of Dmg increase maybe not the best choice, but a nice little extra survival abbility and free 3 WR stacks if dropped.
@selonw if you mean that golem, its absolutly possible to keep the stacks but harder than normally. Catching up after his charge is easy but often you will get a knockdown then if ItC isn't up causing you to loose it.
Can't really think of any other boss where the bleed will most likely drop often. Frozen final if the cleric kites the adds trough the boss and you have to evade golems AoEs as well maybe or in general if the CW is so clever to use AS right onto the boss all the time (saw that in spider once-.-).
Ah right, there is 1 Boss where I fail keeping bleed up often, Lair of the Mad Dragon final boss due to his bugged hitbox. There's no other dragon that I "miss" that much. Even if I stand right behind him, under his head or inside him, its so random to hit it - full attacks vanish into nothing there.
Shinis
Tong Lv86
Server: Jian [DE]
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Updated to reflect that recovery should not actually be stacked to the DR point of 2900. Also updated to reflect corrected math for crit rating breakpoints.
So with 4pc Swashbuckling we don't want more than 1900 recovery?
Also what's the crit rating target with Perfect Vorpal?
Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
@fimconte Recovery probably isn't worth much at all really, but a safe bet with swashbuckling 4 set is less than 1900 ya.
As far as the crit rating with a perfect vorpal goes, you can probably follow my math and fill in the numbers and see where you're at. I haven't bothered to do that as I don't know how much crit severity a perfect is. I am guessing around 50%?
I have been following this build but I'm still kind of an inexperienced player. I have a question about recover. When I use lashing blade my cooldown time is something like 19 seconds. Is that unusually long for this build? Should I put more points into recovery?
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fimconteMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
@fimconte Recovery probably isn't worth much at all really, but a safe bet with swashbuckling 4 set is less than 1900 ya.
As far as the crit rating with a perfect vorpal goes, you can probably follow my math and fill in the numbers and see where you're at. I haven't bothered to do that as I don't know how much crit severity a perfect is. I am guessing around 50%?
I'm only half way there, with two Greaters sitting in my inventory, but since it jumps 12/25/38, it's probably 50%.
I'll let you know when I finish it.
Fans Glory to the Gladiators,
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
hi,
i'm around 9,5k gearscore now, going according to you guide. how would u suggest to advance from now?
currently i'm equiped with some pvp and t1 items + rank 5 gems.
i thought about getting the ion stone now(got around 400k ad atm and available for 600 at dragon). The question for the stone would be: i don't have the budget(by far) to equip him like you did. what would u suggest to start with if i get the stone? no runes at all? or unsock them later? or should i go for some totally other stuff for now?
Some lvl 5-6 runestones are easy to get and cheap, ring+neck can be bought for drake/unicorn seals at least as a start (able to sell them later, equip doesn't bind on pets) and a rather good icon doesn't cost much as well, maybe 5-10k.
Guess gearing it with some good stuff is a max of 50k if not going to high with the enchants as a start. After that either upgrade your shirt/pants to purple slotted ones (more stats than actually upgrading from t1 to t2 mostly) or the weapons if not done yet. The set is imo the last stuff to do.
Great guide! Thanx a lot. I have a question. BiS daggers atm is the ancient's from CN ? I heard there is an offhand with weapon enchantment slot.. anyone knows about it ? ty
Comments
"The weak will always obey the master."
I'm thinking of dropping either Scoundrel Training or two points of Cunning Ambusher and going for HP defensive enchants, should get me to around ~25-26k hp which should be enough to survive Hands and Xivros initial 8k+16k circle damage (that sometimes hits me after I've dodged out and moved away for 1s+)
Scoundrel seems like a obvious choice, but I'm not sure how Cunning Ambusher stacks up against it.
Or is there some other heroic feat you'd drop instead?
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
You can also see a better formatted version of the guide here.
How come you guys can have so many actions and i only have 3 action buttons for habilities? (Q,E,R)
The thing is this guy is right, power is everything in dungeons to a TR. It doesn't matter if you have 1 crit% or 0 recovery as long as your bleed hits hard even once on 10th stack on a boss. When that happens the only thing you must do is maintain the bleed and the boss goes down fast.
The thing is you're wrong. Armor penetration beats power anyday of the week. Power scales horribly. So many misinformed people on their own class.
I don't main rogue. But lets play with numbers, if you get 20k bleed ticking on a boss, which is not affected by armor pen according to ops post, so during lurkers that bleed does probably 80-90% of all the damage you do. So 80-90% of your damage is not affected by armor penetration, so its always a good idea to push armor pen to super high numbers. Then we count that the remaining 20% of your damage does roughly 20% more damage which means overall 4% more damage for 2400 stat points.
Since rogues primary job is killing boss monsters, then the bleed damage is what matters the most. Even in normal fights bleed does over 50% of a damage during dungeon runs even when counting all of the trash mobs, so at most the armor pen does is increase damage by 10%. Sure I admit the power scales bad if its roughly 1 damage for 25 points, 2.5k power => 100 damage is roughly around 10% more damage if I assume daggers damage is about 1k total and the 10% is about equal to armor pen. The only difference is that you do MORE damage on bosses.
Edit: But if the bleed is affected by armor pen, then armor pen beats power hands down.
Kinda bummer, but I still managed to get up to 25354, which isn't too bad.
Might be enough to survive on Xivros, but I'll have to test it out.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
But ya from the data I had looked through the bleed damage is in some way related to the damage of the hit applying the bleed. So that implies that the bleed does directly benefit from armor penetration.
@darqwonders I doubt anyone is taking this game seriously enough to shun you if you aren't min maxing. If you can't dodge red circles on the floor though, that will probably be different.
You can also see a better formatted version of the guide here.
You can also see a better formatted version of the guide here.
You can also see a better formatted version of the guide here.
A place where everything and nothing exists, this is my playground.
Two questions,
First, what do you use on thrash mobs? Just blitz and try to stop DF on third stack so you dont fall when CW throws mobs over? I seen another rogue use path of the blade.
Secondly, how are people staying on the boss long enough to get big bleed numbers? Take for instance the pirate king final boss. He teleports and does a ton of aoe dmg. So if he teleports you lose out on dmg. If you use impossible to catch, what do you do a few seconds later when he does another aoe? Are you guys rolling into the boss as to dodge the dmg but still be close enough to keep up bleed damage? I'm not that brave
Maybe its all experience and gear?
Anyone who is being honest will tell you that on high movement bosses the bleed is dropping though. Sometimes you just can't do much about it. But the biggest priority among everything you do is to maintain your bleed on the boss. If you DPS with that in mind then usually you can keep it going, except in the most extreme of circumstances.
Basically: If you open correctly, then just spam flurry as much as possible the rest of the fight, you won't lose that much dps over trying to work in everything else (though 20% from wicked reminder is pretty important).
You can also see a better formatted version of the guide here.
In the guide itself the Invisible Infiltrator section is under the title "Other Skills (And why you generally should not use them)" which suggests its not really worth looking at and yet the description describes it as the best passive to take for boss encounters. So the question is - Is Invisible Infiltrator an absolute MUST have and if so could it be moved to a slightly less confusing place in the guide ?
Thanks!
You can also see a better formatted version of the guide here.
Like the ice teleporting boss in frozen. Yet for some reason i have more probs avoiding the red circles below the ice at the last boss :P
Tried shadow strike, didn't use it before. Quite usefull to be honest e.g. at last frozen boss or spellplague - in terms of Dmg increase maybe not the best choice, but a nice little extra survival abbility and free 3 WR stacks if dropped.
@selonw if you mean that golem, its absolutly possible to keep the stacks but harder than normally. Catching up after his charge is easy but often you will get a knockdown then if ItC isn't up causing you to loose it.
Can't really think of any other boss where the bleed will most likely drop often. Frozen final if the cleric kites the adds trough the boss and you have to evade golems AoEs as well maybe or in general if the CW is so clever to use AS right onto the boss all the time (saw that in spider once-.-).
Ah right, there is 1 Boss where I fail keeping bleed up often, Lair of the Mad Dragon final boss due to his bugged hitbox. There's no other dragon that I "miss" that much. Even if I stand right behind him, under his head or inside him, its so random to hit it - full attacks vanish into nothing there.
So with 4pc Swashbuckling we don't want more than 1900 recovery?
Also what's the crit rating target with Perfect Vorpal?
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
As far as the crit rating with a perfect vorpal goes, you can probably follow my math and fill in the numbers and see where you're at. I haven't bothered to do that as I don't know how much crit severity a perfect is. I am guessing around 50%?
You can also see a better formatted version of the guide here.
I'm only half way there, with two Greaters sitting in my inventory, but since it jumps 12/25/38, it's probably 50%.
I'll let you know when I finish it.
Gods Glory to the Heroes.
TR:Anirul Corrino@Fimconte
GF:Irulan Corrino@Fimconte
i'm around 9,5k gearscore now, going according to you guide. how would u suggest to advance from now?
currently i'm equiped with some pvp and t1 items + rank 5 gems.
i thought about getting the ion stone now(got around 400k ad atm and available for 600 at dragon). The question for the stone would be: i don't have the budget(by far) to equip him like you did. what would u suggest to start with if i get the stone? no runes at all? or unsock them later? or should i go for some totally other stuff for now?
Guess gearing it with some good stuff is a max of 50k if not going to high with the enchants as a start. After that either upgrade your shirt/pants to purple slotted ones (more stats than actually upgrading from t1 to t2 mostly) or the weapons if not done yet. The set is imo the last stuff to do.