hauwlynMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited May 2013
To be fair, it's not "just" the insane amount of burst that gives them an obvious advantage at scoring, They're also the best at ninja capping, which ends up giving tons of points. But aside from scoring, no, Rogues are not OP. Keep a dodge/block/red glowy cc immunity for the daze, grats you just achieved half what you had to do to defeat a rogue. The other half is harder, but still, it doesn't make rogues OP.
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jnaathraMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
The problem with 60 pvp (which I've played a ton of) is damage is out of control and it is not just Rogues doing it. A rogue has the potential to 1 shot some people. CWs have the ability to kill you from range in a single rotation. A solo Cleric, GWF or Guardian is dead meat to these two classes. They normally have to fall back to the group or stay with the group the entire match. They still have their place to some degree, but I will take a pack full of CWs and Rogues over a mixed bag team 9 out of 10 times.
Scout Tragold - "I haven't lived this long by being brave... it's just another word for stupid."
Funny thing is as a guardian i am usually in the top 3 for points in my matches, but i have 1-3 kills and like 30 assist. The current PvP maps are not designed for the most points to win, learn to play your class, take and keep your nodes and learn how to play the numbers game and your win.
My guild went in with 2 GF, 2 Clerics, and 1 GWF. We won 1000 to 600'ish we had 6 total kills, they had about 10... Kills do not win games, knowing how to play the game/class wins game.
Frankly I feel at this time I will vote with my wallet and leave. You see other people playing other classes want to enjoy playing pvp every now and then
Who said that you can't enjoy PvP? Or are you one of those "Maaan, I can't kill them! I should be able to kill them! What? I'm playing a healer? That is nonsense! I should be able to one shot people, my role shouldn't be a healer!"
Frankly I feel at this time I will vote with my wallet and leave. You see other people playing other classes want to enjoy playing pvp every now and then
Who said that you can't enjoy PvP? Or are you one of those "Maaan, I can't kill them! I should be able to kill them! What? I'm playing a healer? That is nonsense! I should be able to one shot people, my role shouldn't be a healer!"
A solo Cleric, GWF or Guardian is dead meat to these two classes. They normally have to fall back to the group or stay with the group the entire match.
I die a lot in PvE with my TR even when I splurge with potions, I'd say rogues are plenty squishy enough. They'll be made obsolete when the Archer Ranger comes out. You better prepare for that.
Note: Edited because I accidentally said Rogue instead of Ranger, because I'm drunk.
*******, this WoW generation which thinks that every class must be balanced is just horrendous. No. Not every class has to be balanced, nor should they be balanced.
This.
The only way to balance each class would be to give them the exact same stats and abilities. It's called homogenisation and it plagued WoW and many other games.
If you want a "balanced" PvP experience just quit the game and uninstall it right now. This isn't the game for you. In fact, this isn't the genre for you. Take it from someone who played WoW PvP for years. There will always be OP classes/combos etc... There are simply too many factors at stake to make it worthwhile for the devs to even attempt to balance PvP. They've got more important issues to address.
If you want a competitive game where everyone is on equal footing, I suggest you look into the RTS genre or fighting games.
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abyssblueMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 4Arc User
Interesting, I have yet to meet a rogue that can out-dps our GWF. Either I've found nothing but **** rogues or our GWF is crazy insane good dps lol
You've found **** rogues. Only one time I've come under 1st in DPS on a dungeon, and that was due to another TR, who was a few level's higher.
ON TOPIC though...
This thread is rediculous. You forget to notice the OTHER TR's in the screenshots. As well, it's very easy to make a point seem valid when you're the one supplying the evidence. And even then you're point seems lacking.
The first picture is a bit nuts, but I've seen quite a few rounds where 1 epic CM or GWF can pull out an amazing game.
Every class does EXACTLY what it's meant to do. Fact is, TR's ARE the main DPS class, and therefore WILL end up with more kills.
DC = Healer - Will not be killing, but healing.
GW = Tank - Might kill a little bit, but mostly mitigating damage
GWF = Hybrid Tank/DPS - Will make a few kills, but sacrifices damage for survivability
CW = Crowd Control - In the current state of the game, makes a surprising amount of kills
TR = Pure DPS - Makes majority of the kills
If you can all realise this, and stop whining because WoW ruined your perspective on the standard RPG setup, we will all be happier, and maybe you'll realise that PvP in Neverwinter is about teamwork.
The only way to balance each class would be to give them the exact same stats and abilities. It's called homogenisation and it plagued WoW and many other games.
If you want a "balanced" PvP experience just quit the game and uninstall it right now. This isn't the game for you. In fact, this isn't the genre for you. Take it from someone who played WoW PvP for years. There will always be OP classes/combos etc... There are simply too many factors at stake to make it worthwhile for the devs to even attempt to balance PvP. They've got more important issues to address.
If you want a competitive game where everyone is on equal footing, I suggest you look into the RTS genre or fighting games.
It's really not that hard to design the classes on a rock-paper-scissors concept (or Rk-Ppr-Scrs-Liz-Spk) basically make it so one class can beat another class but is weak to another one as well and bam now you need a work together to beat the other team dont you? instead of making 1 class a self sustaining tank/dps and calling it good. =\
you are <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. ive done better than 17 - 0 on my rogue and it was due to the other team being complete **** noobs. I'll make a video of a rogue dmg in 30 - 39 bracket. we are the weakest class in 30 - 39 bracket lol
It's really not that hard to design the classes on a rock-paper-scissors concept (or Rk-Ppr-Scrs-Liz-Spk) basically make it so one class can beat another class but is weak to another one as well and bam now you need a work together to beat the other team dont you? instead of making 1 class a self sustaining tank/dps and calling it good. =\
Trust me m8, it's not that simple.
If it were don't you think that WoW would be balanced by now? The game has been out for almost a decade and they have some of the best devs in the world working full time on PvP balance.
It just gets worse and worse as more classes and abilities are added. Furthermore, the real difficulty comes when you try to balance both PvP and PvE. Like it or not, PvP will always get the shaft because the vast majority of players just don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about PvP.
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maiku217Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
Honestly, it's the players not the class. I can roll a TR on my tank so easy. As a matter a fact, I can facestomp all classes on my gf. Level 34 from pvp only with 7.6k glory. Only trouble I get is 2 clerics with the right builds.
I seriously think maybe it's time to split the rules for PvP and PvE, because it always seems to be the PvP players that object (constantly, it will *never* end) to one or another balance issues. Something like a "modifier" for PvP zones.
IMHO it ruined Asheron's Call (before your time, most of y'all) and has damaged PvE on DCUO and others.
It would be incredibly inconvenient for casual PvP players, but it might calm the screaming hordes without making PvE a scrambled mess.
Also, a better tutorial (even optional, like a "PvP training" location) for taking advantage of class abilities and teamwork. D&D 4 was designed for groups of varied roles, solo or with unbalanced groups you get hosed.
Disclaimer: I don't play PvP at all.
GW1 did this. It is the only MMO that I have played that separated PvE and PvP balancing for every skill. For some reason, other games have decided to forgo such an easy solution.
OMFG another pvp QQ, the devs aren't going to ruin their MMO just to adhere to pvp crybabies, STFU and GTFO. :cool:
hopefully they'll adhere to SOME moral codes and get rid of you though.
Keep in mind kills are whoever gets the last hit, CW's dont hurt THAT much but being ranged lets them pick off wounded, TR's get ranged attacks and a teleport to do that, and big burst to finish people off. The only real issue i have with them atm is their whole 'we are so frail' when they arnt. They should take a base hp hit and they might play more like rogues and less like frontline brawlers.
hopefully they'll adhere to SOME moral codes and get rid of you though.
Keep in mind kills are whoever gets the last hit, CW's dont hurt THAT much but being ranged lets them pick off wounded, TR's get ranged attacks and a teleport to do that, and big burst to finish people off. The only real issue i have with them atm is their whole 'we are so frail' when they arnt. They should take a base hp hit and they might play more like rogues and less like frontline brawlers.
They will if they see the PvP market as a large potential market for cash shop.
Try not to be so tunnel visioned. The PvP market is huge, this is the year 2013, not 1999 were the PvP was nothing.
>he takes PvP seriously
laughinggirls.jpg
Nobody cares about PvP. It's just an addon to the game. An afterthought. Do you really think that Cryptic intends to turn Neverwinter into an eSport?
Hardcore PvPers save yourself some grief and just quit the game, delete your characters and uninstall. Go and play Starcraft if you're into the competitve side of gaming. This is an MMO.
I really hope they consider this carefully. As a guardian I find it frustrating, though at low levels I can understand it's not exactly balanced. What I'd like to see is an increase in my own dps or a reduction in TR survivability, but I sure hope they don't touch their damage as that is the only thing they really have going for them. If anything, increase the damage of other classes, but don't break the rogue.
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kromzorMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 2Arc User
Um, can't rogues spec for CC breaks and immunity? I'm pretty sure they can. Unless my rogue playing friend run out of reading comprehension on his own class.
If they do they don't get the dps.
As a optimized dps rogue you need 3 things to max out the numbers. First you need deft strike forgap closing. then you need lashing blade for big hitter. you also need the daze (powder is broken, but dazing strike is just as well) for shutting others down so you can pummel them without resistence. Without any of these my wizard stand unopposed. ( until they fill their resolve and use shocking execution. that's the only skill i reckon needs nerfed)
Your friend likely specced for impossible to catch - which skill did he sacrifice? Lash blade? he has no big hitter. Deft strike? good luck trying to flank a guardian fighter or catch me while i teleport. Daze? congratulation, your rogue is now 30% less useful than it shouldve been. The cc break may get you out of the cc you suffer from for 2 second, but as a control wizard I am equipped with more than one cc. Have fun getting out of them all. And that is why I own rogue I come across.
Once you render a mobile class immobile they're pretty much free meat.
Nobody cares about PvP. It's just an addon to the game. An afterthought. Do you really think that Cryptic intends to turn Neverwinter into an eSport?
Hardcore PvPers save yourself some grief and just quit the game, delete your characters and uninstall. Go and play Starcraft if you're into the competitve side of gaming. This is an MMO.
Learn to comprehend.
It is not about the esport, it is about the bottoom line, profits.
It is not about the esport, it is about the bottoom line, profits.
PvP'ers pay money in cash shops, period.
If they alienate them, they won't spend money.
Expect changes, remove the wool from your eyes.
PvPers are a tiny minority of the player base in any MMO. They do not represent a substantial profit. You don't know what you're talking about. This game was never marketed towards PvPers. Did you see any trailers advertising an "amazing balanced PvP experience"? No.
PvP in this game is ****. Just like every other MMO. People just AFK as soon as their team starts to lose or just Alt-F4 since there's no deserter debuff either. Premades running around slaughtering everyone etc...
The only reason most people even do PvP is to farm astral diamonds.
BTW I like PvP I played WoW only for the PvP but I quickly realised that I was wasting my time. Blizzard didn't give a **** about PvP and neither will Cryptic. Now stop crying about imbalances and just enjoy the game.
Yes because stealth in this game makes you un-targetable. Good one. Oh I forgot stealth also makes you immune to CC. Speaking of immune to CC why don't we ***** about GWF's because they get a CC immunity ability? You crybabies should seriously learn to play. As a CW i can't ****ing tell you how hilarious it is to watch a rogue try to not only kill me, but even get within striking distance. They literally should not be able to hit you one time. You play a tank? You have a ****ing shield. use it. You play a GWF? You have sprint, you have cc immunity that also makes you attack fast as hell. You play a cleric? Kite and heal while dps'ing. These things are not hard.
Comments
My guild went in with 2 GF, 2 Clerics, and 1 GWF. We won 1000 to 600'ish we had 6 total kills, they had about 10... Kills do not win games, knowing how to play the game/class wins game.
Who said that you can't enjoy PvP? Or are you one of those "Maaan, I can't kill them! I should be able to kill them! What? I'm playing a healer? That is nonsense! I should be able to one shot people, my role shouldn't be a healer!"
Who said that you can't enjoy PvP? Or are you one of those "Maaan, I can't kill them! I should be able to kill them! What? I'm playing a healer? That is nonsense! I should be able to one shot people, my role shouldn't be a healer!"
And that is good.
I die a lot in PvE with my TR even when I splurge with potions, I'd say rogues are plenty squishy enough. They'll be made obsolete when the Archer Ranger comes out. You better prepare for that.
Note: Edited because I accidentally said Rogue instead of Ranger, because I'm drunk.
This.
The only way to balance each class would be to give them the exact same stats and abilities. It's called homogenisation and it plagued WoW and many other games.
If you want a "balanced" PvP experience just quit the game and uninstall it right now. This isn't the game for you. In fact, this isn't the genre for you. Take it from someone who played WoW PvP for years. There will always be OP classes/combos etc... There are simply too many factors at stake to make it worthwhile for the devs to even attempt to balance PvP. They've got more important issues to address.
If you want a competitive game where everyone is on equal footing, I suggest you look into the RTS genre or fighting games.
You've found **** rogues. Only one time I've come under 1st in DPS on a dungeon, and that was due to another TR, who was a few level's higher.
ON TOPIC though...
This thread is rediculous. You forget to notice the OTHER TR's in the screenshots. As well, it's very easy to make a point seem valid when you're the one supplying the evidence. And even then you're point seems lacking.
The first picture is a bit nuts, but I've seen quite a few rounds where 1 epic CM or GWF can pull out an amazing game.
Every class does EXACTLY what it's meant to do. Fact is, TR's ARE the main DPS class, and therefore WILL end up with more kills.
DC = Healer - Will not be killing, but healing.
GW = Tank - Might kill a little bit, but mostly mitigating damage
GWF = Hybrid Tank/DPS - Will make a few kills, but sacrifices damage for survivability
CW = Crowd Control - In the current state of the game, makes a surprising amount of kills
TR = Pure DPS - Makes majority of the kills
If you can all realise this, and stop whining because WoW ruined your perspective on the standard RPG setup, we will all be happier, and maybe you'll realise that PvP in Neverwinter is about teamwork.
It's really not that hard to design the classes on a rock-paper-scissors concept (or Rk-Ppr-Scrs-Liz-Spk) basically make it so one class can beat another class but is weak to another one as well and bam now you need a work together to beat the other team dont you? instead of making 1 class a self sustaining tank/dps and calling it good. =\
GF OP, 16/2
Trust me m8, it's not that simple.
If it were don't you think that WoW would be balanced by now? The game has been out for almost a decade and they have some of the best devs in the world working full time on PvP balance.
It just gets worse and worse as more classes and abilities are added. Furthermore, the real difficulty comes when you try to balance both PvP and PvE. Like it or not, PvP will always get the shaft because the vast majority of players just don't give a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about PvP.
And how low your latency is.
GW1 did this. It is the only MMO that I have played that separated PvE and PvP balancing for every skill. For some reason, other games have decided to forgo such an easy solution.
hopefully they'll adhere to SOME moral codes and get rid of you though.
Keep in mind kills are whoever gets the last hit, CW's dont hurt THAT much but being ranged lets them pick off wounded, TR's get ranged attacks and a teleport to do that, and big burst to finish people off. The only real issue i have with them atm is their whole 'we are so frail' when they arnt. They should take a base hp hit and they might play more like rogues and less like frontline brawlers.
^This to the tenth.
IDK, our rogues melt bosses, but our GWF melts adds/trash, and that seems to be the majority of mobs in dungeons. Maybe you've just ran with bad GWFs?
They will if they see the PvP market as a large potential market for cash shop.
Try not to be so tunnel visioned. The PvP market is huge, this is the year 2013, not 1999 were the PvP was nothing.
>he takes PvP seriously
laughinggirls.jpg
Nobody cares about PvP. It's just an addon to the game. An afterthought. Do you really think that Cryptic intends to turn Neverwinter into an eSport?
Hardcore PvPers save yourself some grief and just quit the game, delete your characters and uninstall. Go and play Starcraft if you're into the competitve side of gaming. This is an MMO.
This is what Rouges actually believe. (Pro Tip: What you're saying is if two players of equal skill fight, the Rouge always wins.)
Striker Class.
15%-20% fewer HP than Tank class. (LOL d6 HP vs d10 HP)
Striker Class.
Almost as much CC as Control Class.
Striker Class.
Insanely high AOE Damage. Possibly highest in game.
Striker Class.
They don't have a ton of healing. Just the ability to spam invulnerability.
Clearly its balanced.
If they do they don't get the dps.
As a optimized dps rogue you need 3 things to max out the numbers. First you need deft strike forgap closing. then you need lashing blade for big hitter. you also need the daze (powder is broken, but dazing strike is just as well) for shutting others down so you can pummel them without resistence. Without any of these my wizard stand unopposed. ( until they fill their resolve and use shocking execution. that's the only skill i reckon needs nerfed)
Your friend likely specced for impossible to catch - which skill did he sacrifice? Lash blade? he has no big hitter. Deft strike? good luck trying to flank a guardian fighter or catch me while i teleport. Daze? congratulation, your rogue is now 30% less useful than it shouldve been. The cc break may get you out of the cc you suffer from for 2 second, but as a control wizard I am equipped with more than one cc. Have fun getting out of them all. And that is why I own rogue I come across.
Once you render a mobile class immobile they're pretty much free meat.
Learn to comprehend.
It is not about the esport, it is about the bottoom line, profits.
PvP'ers pay money in cash shops, period.
If they alienate them, they won't spend money.
Expect changes, remove the wool from your eyes.
You forgot one:
Striker Class:
Infinte Stealth
PvPers are a tiny minority of the player base in any MMO. They do not represent a substantial profit. You don't know what you're talking about. This game was never marketed towards PvPers. Did you see any trailers advertising an "amazing balanced PvP experience"? No.
PvP in this game is ****. Just like every other MMO. People just AFK as soon as their team starts to lose or just Alt-F4 since there's no deserter debuff either. Premades running around slaughtering everyone etc...
The only reason most people even do PvP is to farm astral diamonds.
BTW I like PvP I played WoW only for the PvP but I quickly realised that I was wasting my time. Blizzard didn't give a **** about PvP and neither will Cryptic. Now stop crying about imbalances and just enjoy the game.
Yes because stealth in this game makes you un-targetable. Good one. Oh I forgot stealth also makes you immune to CC. Speaking of immune to CC why don't we ***** about GWF's because they get a CC immunity ability? You crybabies should seriously learn to play. As a CW i can't ****ing tell you how hilarious it is to watch a rogue try to not only kill me, but even get within striking distance. They literally should not be able to hit you one time. You play a tank? You have a ****ing shield. use it. You play a GWF? You have sprint, you have cc immunity that also makes you attack fast as hell. You play a cleric? Kite and heal while dps'ing. These things are not hard.