I am curious to know your tips for throwing Healing Word on the tank and TR during major add spawns. I have noticed that Healing Word does target the ally closest to your reticle. Now that I ask, I wonder if you primarily use HW on the ranged where they are easier to target since you have both DS and FF up (which is a HAMSTER ton of healing).
Also, what are your Encounter abilities when you are out by yourself and need to do damage?
Melee shouldn't need any healing words due to the exact reason you listed, they're fine
Soloing/questing I run with Forgemasters, Daunting Light, and Chains, Flamestrike for a daily.
Leveling to 60 I'd spec mostly damage powers unless you plan on doing a lot of healing while you're leveling (I didn't). I leveled in a pure dps build, then completely respecced @ 60.
Lot of good info here, Deistik. Thanks for posting. I am still leveling and running DPS build but when I hit 60 I am looking to respec for heals. You have given me something to consider.
*sigh* now I have to toy around with a 1/21/9 build to satiate my curiosity. Curse you and forcing me to spend my AD!
Sorry its the curse of min/maxers. We won't be able to sleep unless the toon is optimal in our minds. I am using you and Unspecified selfishly for this testing and I appreciate it ALOT.
Maybe a couple of weeks from now I'll start staying awake wondering about more STR. I should finish with 20/21/19 Wis/Str/Cha at 60.
been trying so long for a roll of 16str, 16wis, 13cha, 12int, 10con, 8dex
(no matter the roll they always add up to 72-77 anyway which depends on what stats you try to get more/less points in, 72 total wen u try to get 18 in main stat or 16wis&cha I noticed)
unfortunately I cant get the roll I want...trying to get 16 str&wis causes total points to always be 74 for some reason...
any thoughts on this?
edit: tried a long time and the most effective roll I can get is 15Str/Wis, 13 Cha, 12 Int, 11Con, 10 dex (total of 76 points not counting the +2 from human)
been trying so long for a roll of 16str, 16wis, 13cha, 12int, 10con, 8dex
(no matter the roll they always add up to 72-77 anyway which depends on what stats you try to get more/less points in, 72 total wen u try to get 18 in main stat or 16wis&cha I noticed)
unfortunately I cant get the roll I want...trying to get 16 str&wis causes total points to always be 74 for some reason...
any thoughts on this?
edit: tried a long time and the most effective roll I can get is 15Str/Wis, 13 Cha, 12 Int, 11Con, 10 dex (total of 76 points not counting the +2 from human)
Offense: Azure (+crit)
Defense: Radiant (+HP)
Utility: Dark (+ movement)
0
carrotpakMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited May 2013
wow they should give us a respec option that allows us to reroll the stats (wanna emulate you and do the +2 strength and the 16/16/12). That sucks if i can't even reroll if i want to and have to start from scratch
0
thegrantisimoMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 10Arc User
edited May 2013
Im a bit skeptical about crit on clerics atm. Im a new 60, and it really doesn't seem worth it. I went into crit as well, going the elf that gets +1% crit chance and going higher strength roll etc. However, for healing, crit seems a bit underwhelming as I don't think ive seen astral shield crit. Also, what is yout crit %? Mine is at 22 right now but don't know how much higher it will even go.
I tried out your build off and on during the last 24 hours and I'm not convinced. Sure it works fine in tier 1 epics but those are easy enough no matter what powers you slot.
First of all, I question using Healing Word. I understand what it's meant to do, but it just doesn't seem to do it well enough to be worth the slot. It doesn't seem to build Divinity all that much more quickly than other skills, while requiring you to slot a passive for it to work and also doing very little aside from that building of Divinity. The best thing about it is having the regen stacked on yourself, but this won't do as much to save you as some other abilities (like Sunburst).
Second, in more difficult dungeons I'm really beginning to question Forgemaster's Flame. The first problem with it is it needs Divinity. The second is that it is difficult to hit a mob that isn't a trash mob with it. I don't know how many times I've hit an imp or something equally weak with Divine FF only to have it die half a second later. Now you can just say L2P and hit the right mob, but harder dungeons are extremely hectic and taking the time to try to find and target an elite mob that will actually let FF tick is easier said than done.
I like the idea of a healing crit build, I'm trying to do something like that myself, but more and more I'm discovering that having a lot of healing abilities is secondary to 1) staying alive and 2) being able to avoid/kill adds.
45% crit in a group that buffs it (CW and Rogue). If you watch the video, every heal with a "lightning bolt" next to it is a crit... there's a lot.
Forgemaster's Flame is amazing on trash mobs actually, if you have 5 - 6 on you, you can put it on one and just ignore the mobs for a while. I have absolutely no problem having enough divinity to cast the spells I need to do so with, that's the whole point of this build.
I start that fight with 2 divinity and end with 3, and cast the 2 encounters that need it with it as well.
I tried out your build off and on during the last 24 hours and I'm not convinced. Sure it works fine in tier 1 epics but those are easy enough no matter what powers you slot.
First of all, I question using Healing Word. I understand what it's meant to do, but it just doesn't seem to do it well enough to be worth the slot. It doesn't seem to build Divinity all that much more quickly than other skills, while requiring you to slot a passive for it to work and also doing very little aside from that building of Divinity. The best thing about it is having the regen stacked on yourself, but this won't do as much to save you as some other abilities (like Sunburst).
Second, in more difficult dungeons I'm really beginning to question Forgemaster's Flame. The first problem with it is it needs Divinity. The second is that it is difficult to hit a mob that isn't a trash mob with it. I don't know how many times I've hit an imp or something equally weak with Divine FF only to have it die half a second later. Now you can just say L2P and hit the right mob, but harder dungeons are extremely hectic and taking the time to try to find and target an elite mob that will actually let FF tick is easier said than done.
I like the idea of a healing crit build, I'm trying to do something like that myself, but more and more I'm discovering that having a lot of healing abilities is secondary to 1) staying alive and 2) being able to avoid/kill adds.
Just my 2c.
great now im questioning whether or not to remake...again! omfg! ty so much for more problems! damit...
I hear you. The crits are impressive, I think they are similar to what it looks like when I'm healing though it's hard to judge when you're watching a video rather than actually playing.
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good build. As far as pure healing power, probably the best.
That is true about FF, in that situation it can be effective, though in tier 2 epics 5-6 trash mobs have to be killed almost immediately or you're toast - as I'm sure you know. For example, Imps in Mad Dragon Lair - even 3-4 of those will finish you off in no time, FF or not. Which is why I'm not sure I'd take it over Sun Burst. Actually, I'd probably switch Healing Word with Sun Burst in that case.
I'm really just nitpicking, I suppose. In fights where pure healing works, I will likely go with this or something very close. I don't think all fights work with pure healing, though. For example, second boss in Mad Dragon Lair, the one that spawns packs of 3 Erinyas. If you don't have some damage slotted, preferably Divine Glow for the defense debuff, you're going to have a helluva time burning those down before they get heals off.
Anyway.... yeah. Luckily this game is varied enough that different bosses require different builds.
Yea I have Sunburst max rank as well in case I need it, and yea, the imps hurt like hell lol
I use HW mainly to build my divine power and AP, it's an incredible tool for that. The regen (although great) is still secondary to the power building. I remember specifically with 3 imps on me, surviving long enough for them to die, with FF on one, AS on me, and Hallowed Ground up too. Yea, that's a lot of buffs, but we won :P
maybe I should just go along with this guy's build...
I just watched that video (with liberal amounts of skipping) and I definitely would not recommend it, unfortunately.
First, he didn't take Divine Armor, which is your quintessential "oh sh-t" daily. You also really should take Divine Fortune instead of Terrifying Insight.
I have more issues with his Feat selection too, so.....
okay now im confuzled to hell...some1 please direct me to cookie cutter dps
Well, I can tell you this much. A DPS power setup is easy to do. An actual DPS build I don't know anything about. You can take a solid healing build and then just use Divine Glow, Daunting Light, and probably Searing Light for a decent DPS power setup.
As you can see, there aren't really any cookie cutter builds. The one in this thread is about as solid as you can get for a healing build. DPS you'll have to ask someone else, I haven't tried that.
great...so remaking character this time was pointless...I can keep on playing with it & then when a cookie cutter is made il have to remake again coz im not willing to shell out them bucks to a publisher on my hate list ~_~
I just watched that video (with liberal amounts of skipping) and I definitely would not recommend it, unfortunately.
First, he didn't take Divine Armor, which is your quintessential "oh sh-t" daily. You also really should take Divine Fortune instead of Terrifying Insight.
I have more issues with his Feat selection too, so.....
Given that it's my build being discussed I figured I'd chime in.
I don't disagree with what you've said necessarily. I created that build during head-start and hadn't managed to do T2 dungeons yet and was still ending up doing DPS with another cleric in the group half the time on T1 dungeons. The point is that at the time I had limited knowledge and a different set of circumstances I was playing under. With 2 clerics in a group things are quite different than with only one cleric.
I'm actually working on a respec at the moment (which I will probably put out a video about after testing) though I don't feel Divine Armor is actually that useful I'll probably drop terrifying insight for it. I would rather cast Hallowed Ground 9/10 times, though I am seriously considering dropping the heal feat because it works out to around 5-6k healing over 15 seconds for most people in full T1 purples (T2 won't change much because there isn't more +health on the gear for most classes). I find I don't really need the "oh sh-t" daily I just use a potion every so often. I will likely replace Flame Strike with it during dungeons though and may find a use for it.
Divine Advantage is another feat I'm starting to think would be extremely valuable and I underrated it initially. Most of the difficulty in this game seems to be swarms of adds. If I can negate 80% of combat advantage damage that would go a long way to increasing survivability for myself and everyone else. I'm also definitely dropping 4 points out of the buff in the top tree (name eludes me) since it procs more often than every 30 seconds that's 4 wasted points right there.
I'm even starting to think the 5% defense boost on crit heals might be more valuable than the delayed 2.5% max health heal on Astral Seal/Sun Burst/Bastion of Health feat, which is only a ~500 health heal for most people. 5% defense boost for me would reduce the damage I take by around 2% give or take which would quickly add up to more than 500 damage in the same duration as my CDs.
The build I'm trying to develop is centered around the idea that I will have large numbers of mobs targeting me and I need to survive it, the Pirate King dungeon is a great example of that. The goal is simply to be as durable as possible while still dropping Astral Shield, Astral Seal, and possibly Forgemaster's as often as possible and being able to stand and spam Sacred Flame during CDs for Repurpose Soul healing. 80%-90% of the total possible HPS a cleric can put out comes from those abilities. Sun Burst will likely remain the 3rd encounter ability because it's a wonderful utility skill for the knockback, damage, healing, and it builds divinity and AP like crazy.
Anyway, your criticism is welcome. There's a reason I put that note at the beginning about how I don't believe my build is 'perfect' or 'the best'. I've actually learned a lot from reading threads like this other people have posted.
Hey unspecifiederror. I am glad you chimed in. I've read many of your posts before and definitely respect your view on the cleric! I didn't mean to put down your build, only to warn that it's not necessarily a good all-purpose starting build.
I agree about Hallowed Ground. I said in another thread that it almost never makes sense to use anything but HG, except for the blue moon when you need DA to save your butt.
Despite my own extensive planning I messed up my own feats and now feel like changing them. That proc buff in top tree just seemed so vague I didn't know if it worked at all and so didn't get it. If it procs like you say it is definitely worth a point. I also skipped the 2.5% health thing but now I'm reconsidering that, but I don't know if it only goes off once when Astral Shield is first cast or if it goes off repeatedly?
One thing is for sure. What you say about adds and tanking. I've been building for defense since my first epic dungeons. Personally surviving swarms of adds is by far the biggest impediment to keeping a group alive. I would swap all the piddly +2% healing here and there stuff for some extra survivability and tankiness.
Despite my own extensive planning I messed up my own feats and now feel like changing them. That proc buff in top tree just seemed so vague I didn't know if it worked at all and so didn't get it. If it procs like you say it is definitely worth a point. I also skipped the 2.5% health thing but now I'm reconsidering that, but I don't know if it only goes off once when Astral Shield is first cast or if it goes off repeatedly?
I've found that the top buff procs off every 2-3 divinity cast encounters. In my feats video I actually demonstrate it and I think it took 2 casts to proc it there. It's a really great single point feat but 5 points is serious overkill.
As for the 2.5% heal on Astral Shield, I actually just went back and watched the first 2 minutes of my cloak tower video and got the answer. It is applied once per cast to anyone who is inside the circle when it is first cast. Walking into Astral Shield after it is on the ground will not give the buff and no one will receive it more than once. It does stack if someone is affected by Astral Shield and Sun Burst in under 6 seconds though which is why in some cases people have 2 stacks of the buff at once.
I actually really appreciate you asking that question because now I'm really reconsidering the value of that feat compared to things like 5% less damage from enemies effected by Astral Seal or the Divinity Gain boosting feats.
I didn't max cleanse because I feel that the first point proc enough. I put my points somewhere else I felt is important. We're gonna be healing tick by tick so figured the group will get cleansed easily enough without maxing it. Thoughts on this?
For the most part I do have a similar build to OP but wis and str (the highest points as can be I think started with 18+2 and 16) as priority instead of cha. So gear wise I've been looking at power and crit together but interesting though as I do understand the need for recovery. I am figuring this is something you can gear up easily enough?
I have your thread and Unspecified's bookmarked for quick access A couple more have sprung up. The masses have hijacked Unspecified's thread with "this game is like STO" bull****
Comments
Melee shouldn't need any healing words due to the exact reason you listed, they're fine
Soloing/questing I run with Forgemasters, Daunting Light, and Chains, Flamestrike for a daily.
Sorry
Maybe a couple of weeks from now I'll start staying awake wondering about more STR.
<Rarely Sober> - Beholder
(no matter the roll they always add up to 72-77 anyway which depends on what stats you try to get more/less points in, 72 total wen u try to get 18 in main stat or 16wis&cha I noticed)
unfortunately I cant get the roll I want...trying to get 16 str&wis causes total points to always be 74 for some reason...
any thoughts on this?
edit: tried a long time and the most effective roll I can get is 15Str/Wis, 13 Cha, 12 Int, 11Con, 10 dex (total of 76 points not counting the +2 from human)
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?78361-Ability-Scores-List-of-all-possible-rolled-combinations
Those are the possible outcomes....keep rolling till you get the one you want.
<Rarely Sober> - Beholder
Defense: Radiant (+HP)
Utility: Dark (+ movement)
First of all, I question using Healing Word. I understand what it's meant to do, but it just doesn't seem to do it well enough to be worth the slot. It doesn't seem to build Divinity all that much more quickly than other skills, while requiring you to slot a passive for it to work and also doing very little aside from that building of Divinity. The best thing about it is having the regen stacked on yourself, but this won't do as much to save you as some other abilities (like Sunburst).
Second, in more difficult dungeons I'm really beginning to question Forgemaster's Flame. The first problem with it is it needs Divinity. The second is that it is difficult to hit a mob that isn't a trash mob with it. I don't know how many times I've hit an imp or something equally weak with Divine FF only to have it die half a second later. Now you can just say L2P and hit the right mob, but harder dungeons are extremely hectic and taking the time to try to find and target an elite mob that will actually let FF tick is easier said than done.
I like the idea of a healing crit build, I'm trying to do something like that myself, but more and more I'm discovering that having a lot of healing abilities is secondary to 1) staying alive and 2) being able to avoid/kill adds.
Just my 2c.
Forgemaster's Flame is amazing on trash mobs actually, if you have 5 - 6 on you, you can put it on one and just ignore the mobs for a while. I have absolutely no problem having enough divinity to cast the spells I need to do so with, that's the whole point of this build.
I start that fight with 2 divinity and end with 3, and cast the 2 encounters that need it with it as well.
great now im questioning whether or not to remake...again! omfg! ty so much for more problems! damit...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NghNg_21mg
maybe I should just go along with this guy's build...
Don't get me wrong, I think it's a good build. As far as pure healing power, probably the best.
That is true about FF, in that situation it can be effective, though in tier 2 epics 5-6 trash mobs have to be killed almost immediately or you're toast - as I'm sure you know. For example, Imps in Mad Dragon Lair - even 3-4 of those will finish you off in no time, FF or not. Which is why I'm not sure I'd take it over Sun Burst. Actually, I'd probably switch Healing Word with Sun Burst in that case.
I'm really just nitpicking, I suppose. In fights where pure healing works, I will likely go with this or something very close. I don't think all fights work with pure healing, though. For example, second boss in Mad Dragon Lair, the one that spawns packs of 3 Erinyas. If you don't have some damage slotted, preferably Divine Glow for the defense debuff, you're going to have a helluva time burning those down before they get heals off.
Anyway.... yeah. Luckily this game is varied enough that different bosses require different builds.
I use HW mainly to build my divine power and AP, it's an incredible tool for that. The regen (although great) is still secondary to the power building. I remember specifically with 3 imps on me, surviving long enough for them to die, with FF on one, AS on me, and Hallowed Ground up too. Yea, that's a lot of buffs, but we won :P
I just watched that video (with liberal amounts of skipping) and I definitely would not recommend it, unfortunately.
First, he didn't take Divine Armor, which is your quintessential "oh sh-t" daily. You also really should take Divine Fortune instead of Terrifying Insight.
I have more issues with his Feat selection too, so.....
As you can see, there aren't really any cookie cutter builds. The one in this thread is about as solid as you can get for a healing build. DPS you'll have to ask someone else, I haven't tried that.
Given that it's my build being discussed I figured I'd chime in.
I don't disagree with what you've said necessarily. I created that build during head-start and hadn't managed to do T2 dungeons yet and was still ending up doing DPS with another cleric in the group half the time on T1 dungeons. The point is that at the time I had limited knowledge and a different set of circumstances I was playing under. With 2 clerics in a group things are quite different than with only one cleric.
I'm actually working on a respec at the moment (which I will probably put out a video about after testing) though I don't feel Divine Armor is actually that useful I'll probably drop terrifying insight for it. I would rather cast Hallowed Ground 9/10 times, though I am seriously considering dropping the heal feat because it works out to around 5-6k healing over 15 seconds for most people in full T1 purples (T2 won't change much because there isn't more +health on the gear for most classes). I find I don't really need the "oh sh-t" daily I just use a potion every so often. I will likely replace Flame Strike with it during dungeons though and may find a use for it.
Divine Advantage is another feat I'm starting to think would be extremely valuable and I underrated it initially. Most of the difficulty in this game seems to be swarms of adds. If I can negate 80% of combat advantage damage that would go a long way to increasing survivability for myself and everyone else. I'm also definitely dropping 4 points out of the buff in the top tree (name eludes me) since it procs more often than every 30 seconds that's 4 wasted points right there.
I'm even starting to think the 5% defense boost on crit heals might be more valuable than the delayed 2.5% max health heal on Astral Seal/Sun Burst/Bastion of Health feat, which is only a ~500 health heal for most people. 5% defense boost for me would reduce the damage I take by around 2% give or take which would quickly add up to more than 500 damage in the same duration as my CDs.
The build I'm trying to develop is centered around the idea that I will have large numbers of mobs targeting me and I need to survive it, the Pirate King dungeon is a great example of that. The goal is simply to be as durable as possible while still dropping Astral Shield, Astral Seal, and possibly Forgemaster's as often as possible and being able to stand and spam Sacred Flame during CDs for Repurpose Soul healing. 80%-90% of the total possible HPS a cleric can put out comes from those abilities. Sun Burst will likely remain the 3rd encounter ability because it's a wonderful utility skill for the knockback, damage, healing, and it builds divinity and AP like crazy.
Anyway, your criticism is welcome. There's a reason I put that note at the beginning about how I don't believe my build is 'perfect' or 'the best'. I've actually learned a lot from reading threads like this other people have posted.
I agree about Hallowed Ground. I said in another thread that it almost never makes sense to use anything but HG, except for the blue moon when you need DA to save your butt.
Despite my own extensive planning I messed up my own feats and now feel like changing them. That proc buff in top tree just seemed so vague I didn't know if it worked at all and so didn't get it. If it procs like you say it is definitely worth a point. I also skipped the 2.5% health thing but now I'm reconsidering that, but I don't know if it only goes off once when Astral Shield is first cast or if it goes off repeatedly?
One thing is for sure. What you say about adds and tanking. I've been building for defense since my first epic dungeons. Personally surviving swarms of adds is by far the biggest impediment to keeping a group alive. I would swap all the piddly +2% healing here and there stuff for some extra survivability and tankiness.
I've found that the top buff procs off every 2-3 divinity cast encounters. In my feats video I actually demonstrate it and I think it took 2 casts to proc it there. It's a really great single point feat but 5 points is serious overkill.
As for the 2.5% heal on Astral Shield, I actually just went back and watched the first 2 minutes of my cloak tower video and got the answer. It is applied once per cast to anyone who is inside the circle when it is first cast. Walking into Astral Shield after it is on the ground will not give the buff and no one will receive it more than once. It does stack if someone is affected by Astral Shield and Sun Burst in under 6 seconds though which is why in some cases people have 2 stacks of the buff at once.
I actually really appreciate you asking that question because now I'm really reconsidering the value of that feat compared to things like 5% less damage from enemies effected by Astral Seal or the Divinity Gain boosting feats.
For the most part I do have a similar build to OP but wis and str (the highest points as can be I think started with 18+2 and 16) as priority instead of cha. So gear wise I've been looking at power and crit together but interesting though as I do understand the need for recovery. I am figuring this is something you can gear up easily enough?
^
This
I have your thread and Unspecified's bookmarked for quick access
How did the 1/21/9 build work out?
<Rarely Sober> - Beholder