I am level 18, and a green level 18 dagger have about the same stats as the founder weapon. But the founder weapon is blue so I'm guessing its about a level 15 weapon. Basically its like you start out with a rare weapon from the first dungeon that you get at around level 4-5 (after the tutorial).
And no as a rogue you can not dual-wield them. As far as I know anyway, you can get more then one weapon chest. But you cant open it as long as you possess a weapon. And no, the weapon wont scale. If you open the box at level 18 it will still be the same weapon as when you opened it at level 4-5
Level 4 to 5 dungeon?
0
dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
"If fights require 15 to 30 hits of two characters facing each other"
If by two characters facing each other you didn't mean two characters facing each other you'll have to explain. As for 15-30 seconds, how long do you think most MMOs take for 15-30 hits in melee combat on the average?
"You're confusing "time to level" with "number to kill."
I said for EQUAL "time to level" I would prefer a lower "number to kill". With each kill having more meaning and challenge. Your throwing a bunch of stuff in to make a very simple sentiment something else.
As I have not experienced combat in this game I would love more feedback (simple non- wall of text feedback please) on the standstill aspect. It really does seem to go against the "fast paced" action combat this game promised.
I'm not home and haven't purchased guardian so maybe someone can answer this. If you have both Hero and Guardian can you get 2 Graycloak's Legacy weapons for dual wield?
I personally like it myself, what it's basically doing is allowing for faster leveling for those who paid for the founders pack. And it's really not too crazy honestly. starts to slow down a bit at around level 10, so no it's not OP. It would be OP if it continued to level with you (the stats i mean) and thus keep one shotting everything. I'm a cleric and it's nice to be a healer that can blast everything while leveling and it helps to solo big time. It's kinda nice to be able to flow thru the leveling process without a hitch for a while. The next weapon will be at level 60 we'll prolly read about that one too.
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therealkyriellMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Ever watch a fight with our weapons? Usually its a series of attacks/counters until one person wins. That is what HP is designed to represent in games. When those HP are gone in 1-2 hits its the equivalent of Luke running up to Vader and WTF PWNING him in 3 seconds. How epic.
Hence the phrase "hit you"... assuming defenses are already penetrated.
Very good point on Vader = boss. But still Luke didn't kill thousands of men to hone his skill for that encounter either. Point is assuming an equal time to level I'd rather kill 20 mobs to do it than 100. It would feel less grindish imo.
Not sure where the "stand still" part of things came from. No one here was advocating a stand still style of combat.
The Star Wars story is not an RPG - it's especially not an action RPG.
Although, seems to me that even in the movies the characters shoot quite a few Storm Troopers.
The stand still aspect comes in if your advocating building xp with fewer mobs that each take longer to kill.
That would have us basically staying in the same spot - comparatively.
I tend to suck at action rpgs - especially melee.
I'd rather be rooted and have auto-target like a typical MMORPG.
In NWO, I dropped playing a TR because Stealth didn't work as well as I would have liked compared to pnp D&D - or DDO.
As a CW, I still keep myself mostly rooted and let the trash pound on me while I deal with the "tanks". But, even then, I move out of the way any time the ground turns red to indicate some form of aoe. I'm never completely rooted for long.
IIRC, in the early quests we might have a task of killing 12 Taskmasters. Each Taskmaster will have a couple minions, so that's going to be about 40 kills. Four of those quests should result in gaining a level, so it maybe about 200 kills per level.
Not that it matters because the important part is really completing the missions while feeling like you're acting out your role.
Even in a fairly simple fight, like defeating a Taskmaster, I probably use my Encounter Power, Entangling Force, about 3 times (maybe 4). I Freeze foes quite a bit, so my At-Will is probably used about 30 times? And my other Encounter Power is probably also used about 3 times.
In a typical MMO, like WoW or EQ, there's probably fewer mobs. But, we also have more powers/abilities available than pnp D&D.
Traditional D&D is focused heavily on positioning and the possibility of misses on each turn. There are comparatively few abilities and each hit does substantial damage... And also provides substantial xp. But, most of the time is taken up waiting for each player to analyze the current situation and devise a strategy. Which is a great deal of fun in a turn-based game.
In a turn-based game, the number of mobs can be closer to what we might expect from a movie or TV show.
In an RTS or an action RPG, each encounter will have numerous enemies.
If it's based on D&D, we would still have relatively few abilities.
I can't think of a viable way to have fewer enemies given the number of abilities available.
We can have so few mobs per encounter in pnp because one encounter tends to last 30+ minutes.
If we really used Encounter Powers once per encounter, we would hit max level in less than 10 hours.
If each encounter lasted 10 minutes, we would just be tediously using the same 4 or 5 abilities basically against one foe ad nauseum.
Instead of using my Encounter Powers once per encounter -as originally intended- I'd be using them about 15x per encounter. I'd probably be using my Daily Power at least 3x per encounter. And my At-Wills would basically be spammed at 150x per encounter.
Doesn't sound like fun.
Currently combat feels off compared to pnp D&D.
But, it feels pretty good for an action rpg.
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shock4ndaweMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited April 2013
I'm level 11 and I've already found a weapon better than it. Maybe you just aren't that good, TC?
What your saying is that 15-30 seconds is too long a fight on 1v1 pvp.... Something that many people consider to be a very exciting and too rare thing. And this is why MMOs suck nowadays.
Well, NWO is specifically an action mmorpg.
Seems to me NWO combat requires more than 15 to 30 hits to defeat an encounter.
One hit per second would be quite slow. Especially for an action rpg.
Seems like it takes me 12 hits with At-Will powers to defeat trash mobs around 15th level. And that's more like 5 seconds - max.
Encounter Powers will be used less frequently, but do more damage. And then we have Daily Powers.
If At-Wills take a second per hit, that is quite slow.
I quess my question would be, "How many times should we expect to use Encounter Powers and Daily Powers during a 1v1 PvP fight?"
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darkstarmjpMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yeah, and at the lower levels we're already kinda OP.
I think for most people this weapon shouldn't be an issue.
For those who haven't played already, it might take them longer to get a proper feel of how to use their powers strategically.
But, they should be able to work through that once that weapon becomes obsolete.
who the hell cares. just play your game and don't worry about how other people are playing there game. jesus I swear people care about the dumbest things.
YES!!! The most sensible post i have read yet!!!! I really cant get over the audacity of some players insisting that everyone should play the way they want them too. It is unbelievable. If a player does not want to use something they feel is OP the don't need to, simple. Players like that never seem to look at all aspects of an issue. There will always be many types of players, some have more time than money others have more money than time. Take the hard working embalmer for example. Toiling away 6 days a week, so high on HCHO (formaldehyde) fumes he cant even think straight when he finally sits down at his computer to log into the game. There is know way the poor decrepit mbomber can ever keep up with the young whipper snappers that can spend many hours of every day playing. Nor perhaps could some folks with certain disabilities. In both cases paying for better equipment in game could help them as they try to keep up with what i will call the "Playing Elite". In days of yore Chinese gold farmers would reap the benefit of addressing the disparity between those with the time and ability to play as a member of the "Playing Elite" and those than can never reach such lofty levels. Now cryptic has a better way, the money involved in any such transactions go back into the game that the F2P "Playing Elite". Sadly they still scorn us, try always to nerf things we pay for and as always fail to see past there own gaming world view.
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zeek29Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 13Arc User
edited April 2013
I played in all the BW and there is nothing hard about solo leveling in this game. I found it very fun don't get me wrong, but a weapon with 147 power on it is not a game changer. Someone mentioned earlier that if you want to complain about pay to win then the fact that they have a 5 day head start and will be most likely maxed level before non founders would be more of an argument. I don't agree with the argument but would be more founded than a minor weapon. IMO. I paid for the guardian package and i cant wait to start playing. If i could have afforded the HotN i would have bought it i just find this game pretty awesome and hopes it cont. to grow and adds some raids.
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roadkillaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
-10 your a guardian so you haven't even used the weapon yet lol.
troll post got you all.
I got:
Greycloak's Holy Symbol
87-107 Damage
Equip: +254 Power
Offense Slot: +10 power
Offense Slot: +10 Crit. Strike
Equip: +107 Recovery
Offense Slot: +10 Recovery
sure things go a bit faster through the early levels but since i have been though them before im happy to speed through slightly faster. Perhaps people that delete them could be given an "Im too sexy for my Greycloak" title and accolade???
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shinkicker44Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited April 2013
The weapon is for everyone of your characters isn't it? Not just a once off?
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dkhietalaMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 4Arc User
edited April 2013
It's for each character. Honestly, using it to burn through those early levels is welcome... it eventually loses it's "OP" aspect, it's more of a tool to get things moving quickly. Many HotN players have been through those starting levels quite a few times already.
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terradraconisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 17Arc User
Waiting for the flood of "its not P2W because" posts to show.
No sounds like some peoples definition. But I have a question.
Why is Play to win bad?
No seriously why is it considered worse than the F2P freeloaders who leach off the game resources without contributing to the survival of the game?
Is it because being able to buy cool powerful equipment reduces the leet cool factor of farming for hours and hours with a guild in the end game? If so bring on more P2W.... Hell if I want to waste hours and hours farming for some special gear.
wow. devs admitting that their items are OP. great game...
And this is bad why? Why shouldn't the people who actually pay something to play the game get better rewards than the people who don't bother to support the game?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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fexhieMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 24Arc User
No sounds like some peoples definition. But I have a question.
Why is Play to win bad?
No seriously why is it considered worse than the F2P freeloaders who leach off the game resources without contributing to the survival of the game?
Is it because being able to buy cool powerful equipment reduces the leet cool factor of farming for hours and hours with a guild in the end game? If so bring on more P2W.... Hell if I want to waste hours and hours farming for some special gear.
I have no problem with Play to Win.
I have many many issues with Pay to Win.
1. If rich people want to pay hundreds of dollars to play a game where they are OP because they got items that people without hundreds of dollars to spend have no way of matching then those people should all be put on a server together instead of into a community where they are going to outshine everyone else who plays just because they have more money IRL.
2. Cash shops are ruining the way mmo's are marketed. Instead of buying a game and paying monthly fees like mmo's have been run for years, more and more companies are coming to understand that there is no need to sell 1 million copies, they just need to put the product out there for free so anyone and their 10 year old kid can play it, then capitalize on the unfair advantages and colorful cash shop only items to needy players. It is like a gambling addiction. It starts off you just spend five dollars on a really cool sword that gets you 1 to 20 really fast, then before you know it your spending 200 dollars a month on a game that should be 15 to 20 dollars a month.
3. Giving people items better than what they can get in game for RL money will make the players with those OP items have such an easy time playing content that they will complain about how easy it is. Then instead of actually balancing the game based on what is readily available to the average playerbase it will get balanced based on what is available to the rich playerbase cuz those are the people that are spending all their money on the game!
I can think of many more but don't feel like spending hours typing a post out.
While I agree with your post in general...having used the greycloak weapon, I'm starting to think of it as an early-game XP potion (I'm only level 18, so no opinion on the box for 60 yet - I assume it's fairly generic gear, though, and nowhere near the best). Unless your definition of P2W includes "going faster through levels 1-(maybe, if you have luck as bad as me with getting a good weapon)17," you're not really getting any game-changer.
Not saying the Greycloak weapon isn't a bit OP, but I am saying it's no more p2w than an xp potion in other games (such as my original MMO, DDO). In all honesty, I see it more as a reward aimed at those who've likely done low-level characters multiple times in beta and want to get to levels they haven't necessarily done as much a bit faster, but that's just my opinion on it.
Edit: I just got a good upgrade from it out of a quest reward. >_>
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amarad4658Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Sadly I can play only saturday and I deffinetly will play without this weapon, its 1 hit/dead= no funn.
So wait, your complaining about a weapon you haven't even used yet because you cant play until Saturday? WTF is wrong with some of you people who aren't even in game and are making comments about which you know nothing?The weapon in question is the Greycloak Legacy and it is a little stronger than you start with but you can buy a blue and even a green a few levels in from one of the weapon vendors in the market that does more damage.So don't be silly until you actually play the game. Besides the fact that you will quickly outlevel the weapon.
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geddings12Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, SilverstarsPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Yeah its prob does a lot of damange because its lower level. More akin for a quick start at the lower levels. I honestly think its awesome and like the perks :-) but......some people do like to complain heh.
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vagrantzeroMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The stats are 147 Power, 102 Crit and other stats for a Greatsword, at lvl 4 its insane, even a lvl 30 weapon dont have such dps.
That's not true at all so stop this hyperbolic garbage. You will replace this weapon around lvl 15-20 depending on how soon you pick up a new Blue Weapon.
The game isn't pay-to-win, because you can earn everything by just playing.
Yes, people who pay have advantages. How is that different from kids and students and unemployed folks who can play 12-16 hours because they don't have a job, don't have a family, don't have responsibilities, and who, as a result, then "own" everyone else in MMOs where ONLY time matters and flaunt their progress and achievements? How do you compete with that when you have to work and end up with a couple of hours of recreation time per night?
At least Neverwinter offers a choice. You can either grind everything and put in time, or you can spend some real money (that you earned while others were playing the game) to keep up and get some boosts here and there. Or anything in between. Pay-to-play MMOs don't give you that choice. The moment you stop paying, you won't play at all, no matter how much you paid before.
This weapon isn't OP. As mentioned by people, by level 15+ you find better green items. I didn't even use it with my cleric at low levels because everything went down quickly anyway. This is just another thing were people jump the gun without really researching it.
Comments
Level 4 to 5 dungeon?
If by two characters facing each other you didn't mean two characters facing each other you'll have to explain. As for 15-30 seconds, how long do you think most MMOs take for 15-30 hits in melee combat on the average?
"You're confusing "time to level" with "number to kill."
I said for EQUAL "time to level" I would prefer a lower "number to kill". With each kill having more meaning and challenge. Your throwing a bunch of stuff in to make a very simple sentiment something else.
As I have not experienced combat in this game I would love more feedback (simple non- wall of text feedback please) on the standstill aspect. It really does seem to go against the "fast paced" action combat this game promised.
Hence the phrase "hit you"... assuming defenses are already penetrated.
Although, seems to me that even in the movies the characters shoot quite a few Storm Troopers.
The stand still aspect comes in if your advocating building xp with fewer mobs that each take longer to kill.
That would have us basically staying in the same spot - comparatively.
I tend to suck at action rpgs - especially melee.
I'd rather be rooted and have auto-target like a typical MMORPG.
In NWO, I dropped playing a TR because Stealth didn't work as well as I would have liked compared to pnp D&D - or DDO.
As a CW, I still keep myself mostly rooted and let the trash pound on me while I deal with the "tanks". But, even then, I move out of the way any time the ground turns red to indicate some form of aoe. I'm never completely rooted for long.
IIRC, in the early quests we might have a task of killing 12 Taskmasters. Each Taskmaster will have a couple minions, so that's going to be about 40 kills. Four of those quests should result in gaining a level, so it maybe about 200 kills per level.
Not that it matters because the important part is really completing the missions while feeling like you're acting out your role.
Even in a fairly simple fight, like defeating a Taskmaster, I probably use my Encounter Power, Entangling Force, about 3 times (maybe 4). I Freeze foes quite a bit, so my At-Will is probably used about 30 times? And my other Encounter Power is probably also used about 3 times.
In a typical MMO, like WoW or EQ, there's probably fewer mobs. But, we also have more powers/abilities available than pnp D&D.
Traditional D&D is focused heavily on positioning and the possibility of misses on each turn. There are comparatively few abilities and each hit does substantial damage... And also provides substantial xp. But, most of the time is taken up waiting for each player to analyze the current situation and devise a strategy. Which is a great deal of fun in a turn-based game.
In a turn-based game, the number of mobs can be closer to what we might expect from a movie or TV show.
In an RTS or an action RPG, each encounter will have numerous enemies.
If it's based on D&D, we would still have relatively few abilities.
I can't think of a viable way to have fewer enemies given the number of abilities available.
We can have so few mobs per encounter in pnp because one encounter tends to last 30+ minutes.
If we really used Encounter Powers once per encounter, we would hit max level in less than 10 hours.
If each encounter lasted 10 minutes, we would just be tediously using the same 4 or 5 abilities basically against one foe ad nauseum.
Instead of using my Encounter Powers once per encounter -as originally intended- I'd be using them about 15x per encounter. I'd probably be using my Daily Power at least 3x per encounter. And my At-Wills would basically be spammed at 150x per encounter.
Doesn't sound like fun.
Currently combat feels off compared to pnp D&D.
But, it feels pretty good for an action rpg.
Seems to me NWO combat requires more than 15 to 30 hits to defeat an encounter.
One hit per second would be quite slow. Especially for an action rpg.
Seems like it takes me 12 hits with At-Will powers to defeat trash mobs around 15th level. And that's more like 5 seconds - max.
Encounter Powers will be used less frequently, but do more damage. And then we have Daily Powers.
If At-Wills take a second per hit, that is quite slow.
I quess my question would be, "How many times should we expect to use Encounter Powers and Daily Powers during a 1v1 PvP fight?"
I think for most people this weapon shouldn't be an issue.
For those who haven't played already, it might take them longer to get a proper feel of how to use their powers strategically.
But, they should be able to work through that once that weapon becomes obsolete.
YES!!! The most sensible post i have read yet!!!! I really cant get over the audacity of some players insisting that everyone should play the way they want them too. It is unbelievable. If a player does not want to use something they feel is OP the don't need to, simple. Players like that never seem to look at all aspects of an issue. There will always be many types of players, some have more time than money others have more money than time. Take the hard working embalmer for example. Toiling away 6 days a week, so high on HCHO (formaldehyde) fumes he cant even think straight when he finally sits down at his computer to log into the game. There is know way the poor decrepit mbomber can ever keep up with the young whipper snappers that can spend many hours of every day playing. Nor perhaps could some folks with certain disabilities. In both cases paying for better equipment in game could help them as they try to keep up with what i will call the "Playing Elite". In days of yore Chinese gold farmers would reap the benefit of addressing the disparity between those with the time and ability to play as a member of the "Playing Elite" and those than can never reach such lofty levels. Now cryptic has a better way, the money involved in any such transactions go back into the game that the F2P "Playing Elite". Sadly they still scorn us, try always to nerf things we pay for and as always fail to see past there own gaming world view.
troll post got you all.
Greycloak's Holy Symbol
87-107 Damage
Equip: +254 Power
Offense Slot: +10 power
Offense Slot: +10 Crit. Strike
Equip: +107 Recovery
Offense Slot: +10 Recovery
sure things go a bit faster through the early levels but since i have been though them before im happy to speed through slightly faster. Perhaps people that delete them could be given an "Im too sexy for my Greycloak" title and accolade???
No sounds like some peoples definition. But I have a question.
Why is Play to win bad?
No seriously why is it considered worse than the F2P freeloaders who leach off the game resources without contributing to the survival of the game?
Is it because being able to buy cool powerful equipment reduces the leet cool factor of farming for hours and hours with a guild in the end game? If so bring on more P2W.... Hell if I want to waste hours and hours farming for some special gear.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
we know you don't like this game already, why are you still here.
And this is bad why? Why shouldn't the people who actually pay something to play the game get better rewards than the people who don't bother to support the game?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I have no problem with Play to Win.
I have many many issues with Pay to Win.
1. If rich people want to pay hundreds of dollars to play a game where they are OP because they got items that people without hundreds of dollars to spend have no way of matching then those people should all be put on a server together instead of into a community where they are going to outshine everyone else who plays just because they have more money IRL.
2. Cash shops are ruining the way mmo's are marketed. Instead of buying a game and paying monthly fees like mmo's have been run for years, more and more companies are coming to understand that there is no need to sell 1 million copies, they just need to put the product out there for free so anyone and their 10 year old kid can play it, then capitalize on the unfair advantages and colorful cash shop only items to needy players. It is like a gambling addiction. It starts off you just spend five dollars on a really cool sword that gets you 1 to 20 really fast, then before you know it your spending 200 dollars a month on a game that should be 15 to 20 dollars a month.
3. Giving people items better than what they can get in game for RL money will make the players with those OP items have such an easy time playing content that they will complain about how easy it is. Then instead of actually balancing the game based on what is readily available to the average playerbase it will get balanced based on what is available to the rich playerbase cuz those are the people that are spending all their money on the game!
I can think of many more but don't feel like spending hours typing a post out.
While I agree with your post in general...having used the greycloak weapon, I'm starting to think of it as an early-game XP potion (I'm only level 18, so no opinion on the box for 60 yet - I assume it's fairly generic gear, though, and nowhere near the best). Unless your definition of P2W includes "going faster through levels 1-(maybe, if you have luck as bad as me with getting a good weapon)17," you're not really getting any game-changer.
Not saying the Greycloak weapon isn't a bit OP, but I am saying it's no more p2w than an xp potion in other games (such as my original MMO, DDO). In all honesty, I see it more as a reward aimed at those who've likely done low-level characters multiple times in beta and want to get to levels they haven't necessarily done as much a bit faster, but that's just my opinion on it.
Edit: I just got a good upgrade from it out of a quest reward. >_>
So wait, your complaining about a weapon you haven't even used yet because you cant play until Saturday? WTF is wrong with some of you people who aren't even in game and are making comments about which you know nothing?The weapon in question is the Greycloak Legacy and it is a little stronger than you start with but you can buy a blue and even a green a few levels in from one of the weapon vendors in the market that does more damage.So don't be silly until you actually play the game. Besides the fact that you will quickly outlevel the weapon.
That's not true at all so stop this hyperbolic garbage. You will replace this weapon around lvl 15-20 depending on how soon you pick up a new Blue Weapon.
The game isn't pay-to-win, because you can earn everything by just playing.
Yes, people who pay have advantages. How is that different from kids and students and unemployed folks who can play 12-16 hours because they don't have a job, don't have a family, don't have responsibilities, and who, as a result, then "own" everyone else in MMOs where ONLY time matters and flaunt their progress and achievements? How do you compete with that when you have to work and end up with a couple of hours of recreation time per night?
At least Neverwinter offers a choice. You can either grind everything and put in time, or you can spend some real money (that you earned while others were playing the game) to keep up and get some boosts here and there. Or anything in between. Pay-to-play MMOs don't give you that choice. The moment you stop paying, you won't play at all, no matter how much you paid before.
This weapon isn't OP. As mentioned by people, by level 15+ you find better green items. I didn't even use it with my cleric at low levels because everything went down quickly anyway. This is just another thing were people jump the gun without really researching it.