So the weapon you get from them founders pack it has to much dmg!
Even at lvl 35 I didnt haved such a weapon..
This game is lame with this weapon, face roll everithing..
If it wasn't an excellent weapon, people would complain that they paid for trash.
You win PVP battles, win dungeons you may lose at without paying money, win at lvling up easier compared to free players, etc.
Its like using steroids in sports. Even if you didn't "win" the gold medal, its something frowned upon. Paying money to gain a power advantage over people that are not paying.
I'm not sure how strong the weapon is as I played free in beta, but if you can buy this now, won't they always be selling powerful things in the cash shop? Thats P2W.....
What is stopping you from paying to get extra items in game that will also help you? Do you really expect them to make a game and have no profit at all with it?
How hard will it be to find a similar/better weapon/enchant at that level?
If it is easy/normal to find a superior weapon by the first pvp option, then what we have on our hands is a speed-leveling tool. same content but faster. Nobody is PVPing at level 4.
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johnny305Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The weapon is designed to be really good at early levels. Think about it like purchasing an XP Boost - it will let you get through content quickly. It won't do you much good later on.
A shame you sell power, shoulda just stuck to cosmetics, actual xp boosts and things not considered pay to win. Bags, character slots, cooler looking mounts, pets, but not make your guy a power house.
If you sell this now, I am sure you will sell things to make your mid game guy strong and end game guy strong at some point.
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johnny305Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What is stopping you from paying to get extra items in game that will also help you? Do you really expect them to make a game and have no profit at all with it?
I don't support pay to win man.
I want to go through the content and earn my way not buy my way to make it easier.
There are plenty of ways to sell stuff without it powering up the guy like weapons at lvl 1 to make him OP and pets that fight for him at lvl 1, etc.
Well to be honest, I don't see what so fun 1-2 shotting the majority of mobs.
Because if I hit you with a sword, staff, mace, or any other hard object, you are going to stop fighting. You may not die right away, but its not going to take me 5-20 hits to take you out. My biggest gripe about SWTOR was that it DID take 5-6 hits with a *lightsaber* to disable an opponent.
Granted, its a fantasy game. Realism, physiology, and physics have no place in our discussions
Look at his post history. He seems to dislike every aspect of this game, but still lurks the forums.
.... Wait, isn't that a troll?
ah so he is the self imposed "fun police" monitoring the forums for someone showing signs of enjoyment that differs from his own. he probably hates <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> marriage, other ethnic groups and "loud music".
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elenoe8Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Because if I hit you with a sword, staff, mace, or any other hard object, you are going to stop fighting. You may not die right away, but its not going to take me 5-20 hits to take you out. My biggest gripe about SWTOR was that it DID take 5-6 hits with a *lightsaber* to disable an opponent.
Granted, its a fantasy game. Realism, physiology, and physics have no place in our discussions
Ever watch a fight with our weapons? Usually its a series of attacks/counters until one person wins. That is what HP is designed to represent in games. When those HP are gone in 1-2 hits its the equivalent of Luke running up to Vader and WTF PWNING him in 3 seconds. How epic.
Freaking play the game. Stop calling everything OP. People like you ruin games, alt-tabbing in and out to the forums calling BS whenever you die or something isn't perfect. Chill out.
I want to go through the content and earn my way not buy my way to make it easier.
There are plenty of ways to sell stuff without it powering up the guy like weapons at lvl 1 to make him OP and pets that fight for him at lvl 1, etc.
1) "Pay to win" - Win what? PvP? A headstart weapon will not do that for you, as most "real" PvP happens at max with top end gear, so unless the headstart weapon is comparable with level 45-50 blue-purple gear and top tier enhancements, bull****. Win dungeons? How do you win dungeons? Gear is rolled for, and XP is shared. Leveling up faster? So.. the weapon is a problem but the XP boosts are ok? What about players who just grind faster? Are they winning?
2) OP at lower level? - Good. Founders have been playing the same lower levels for 3-4 beta weekends already. I don't want to see the same **** yet again, I've already worked through it once per class. Having to go through the tutorial is already painful - I did that like 10 times.
A shame you sell power, shoulda just stuck to cosmetics, actual xp boosts and things not considered pay to win. Bags, character slots, cooler looking mounts, pets, but not make your guy a power house.
If you sell this now, I am sure you will sell things to make your mid game guy strong and end game guy strong at some point.
This isn't selling power, this is selling time. Claiming this is selling power is a misunderstanding to what selling power actually is and why its bad for the game, players and publishers.
Well to be honest, I don't see what so fun 1-2 shotting the majority of mobs.
And I don't see what's so fun about going through the same leveling path for the upteenth time.
On top of that, combat is fun, repetition is not. In MMOs, and most games in general, the fun and challenging aspect comes from dealing with multiple dangers at once, not chipping away at an endless wall for three days. It's about prioritizing targets and strategy rather than setting a macro to play through your chain while you go for a duece. It's the same reason people complain that most MMOs, and Cryptic's in particular, consider difficulty to be increasing the bag of HP you need to swing at.
One of the biggest flaws my mates and I found while playing Star Wars RPG PnP was that based on how we had built, there was no strategy, it was literally all dice rolls and hitting hp bags. It was essentially boiled down to whoever rolled higher out of 10. That stopped being fun. People took too long to die, and it became one on one five man teams that went nowhere. However one of the most fun times I ever had was in CoH fighting against waves of Freakshow baddies in a broken dimension, fists flying, blasts exploding in the background and a genuine sense of danger to be found.
Neverwinter's biggest highlight is its combat. Its biggest weakness in combat is being unable to move. If fights require 15 to 30 hits of two characters facing each other going blow for blow, that complete destroys the faced paced aspect that is its best feature.
(p.s. Johnny, chomag, I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, I was just using your post as a jumping off point and wasn't directed at you specifically)
Ever watch a fight with our weapons? Usually its a series of attacks/counters until one person wins. That is what HP is designed to represent in games. When those HP are gone in 1-2 hits its the equivalent of Luke running up to Vader and WTF PWNING him in 3 seconds. How epic.
The problem with this comparison is that Vader is a BOSS character, and we have that, often, where it's blow for blow. For scrubs? For all the storm troopers on the way? He doesn't find an oponent, take his stance, plant his feet and then take turns swinging and shooting at each other while they both stand there, in the same spot, until the fight is over.
****, even WoW rogues can move during combat. Who thought a dodge and sneak based character should be planted in one spot?
Sometimes, Cryptic...... :rolleyes:
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dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Neverwinter's biggest highlight is its combat. Its biggest weakness in combat is being unable to move. If fights require 15 to 30 hits of two characters facing each other going blow for blow, that complete destroys the faced paced aspect that is its best feature.
What your saying is that 15-30 seconds is too long a fight on 1v1 pvp.... Something that many people consider to be a very exciting and too rare thing. And this is why MMOs suck nowadays.
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kotliMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 577
The problem with this comparison is that Vader is a BOSS character, and we have that, often, where it's blow for blow. For scrubs? For all the storm troopers on the way? He doesn't find an oponent, take his stance, plant his feet and then take turns swinging and shooting at each other while they both stand there, in the same spot, until the fight is over.
****, even WoW rogues can move during combat. Who thought a dodge and sneak based character should be planted in one spot?
Sometimes, Cryptic...... :rolleyes:
Very good point on Vader = boss. But still Luke didn't kill thousands of men to hone his skill for that encounter either. Point is assuming an equal time to level I'd rather kill 20 mobs to do it than 100. It would feel less grindish imo.
Not sure where the "stand still" part of things came from. No one here was advocating a stand still style of combat.
all f2p games have stuff that make you lvl faster, and i mean all of them.
Yup. Nothing wrong with level speed boosts. Max level pvp/pve is what matters and from what i've seen in this thread, said weapon will be useless by then.
So the weapon you get from them founders pack it has to much dmg!
Even at lvl 35 I didnt haved such a weapon..
This game is lame with this weapon, face roll everithing..
Are you serious?
It's awesome at early levels, yeah.
But trust me, you will out level it fast.
It's not meant to be held onto all the way through the game.
There is only one game so far where chipping away hitpoints was done right: Severance.
I much prefer to see enemy block and dodge my attacks until it's weapon or shield breaks or it fails the dodge, and then there will be blood.
Hitting punching bags all the time is just boring, I much rather one-shot things than hit them half dozen times. I want to deliver strikes that feel powerful, not just some female canine slapping.
And really, these P2W criers are a bad joke nowdays. Half of them are completely blind on what actually causes P2W, but sees it everywhere. Another half doesn't seem to even know what it means but cry anyway, as it is in fashion to do so.
I am level 18, and a green level 18 dagger have about the same stats as the founder weapon. But the founder weapon is blue so I'm guessing its about a level 15 weapon. Basically its like you start out with a rare weapon from the first dungeon that you get at around level 4-5 (after the tutorial).
And no as a rogue you can not dual-wield them. As far as I know anyway, you can get more then one weapon chest. But you cant open it as long as you possess a weapon. And no, the weapon wont scale. If you open the box at level 18 it will still be the same weapon as when you opened it at level 4-5
What your saying is that 15-30 seconds is too long a fight on 1v1 pvp.... Something that many people consider to be a very exciting and too rare thing. And this is why MMOs suck nowadays.
Show me where I said PvP. Show me where I said 15-30 seconds. Show me where I combined those too things.
Because I'm clearly misunderstanding my own point.
The rules for PvE do not apply to PvP - for example, an NPC can't kill an equal level player character anywhere near as fast as a player can kill an NPC. And even if they did nn NPC is also incapable of reacting to a player the same way another player is.
There's a difference between moderation in the amount of HP vs damage dealt, and that crossing the line into chiping becomes boring and painful.
Take two tanks that are maxed out on defense and HP in any game, and likely doing only moderate amounts of damage. Now plant them in place. How exciting would that PvP battle be?
There is no excitement with a sense of urgency. I'm not saying players should one shot each other. I'm not really saying very much about players doing anything to other players, but that aside, if players fight each other without some sense of consequences then it stops being fun.
Very good point on Vader = boss. But still Luke didn't kill thousands of men to hone his skill for that encounter either. Point is assuming an equal time to level I'd rather kill 20 mobs to do it than 100. It would feel less grindish imo.
Not sure where the "stand still" part of things came from. No one here was advocating a stand still style of combat.
You're confusing "time to level" with "number to kill." One proper AoE can kill off a solid 10 guys in a single hit while giving you absolutely no XP. I'm reminded of playing a blaster in CoH and killing 10k ritki monkeys. And both of those are irrelevent to combat being enjoyable.
We also don't get nearly the same rate of XP for grinding as we do for mission completion - like Luke completing his tutorial with Yoda and stopped being completely useless. Regardless, I'm not talking about grinding. I don't mean having to kill 10k monkeys to gain a level. That's absurd and pointless. But I'm also not talking about spending an entire day on a single boss and gaining 10 levels in one shot. That's just as crazy. What I am talking bout is repetition not being fun, be that hacking away at the same thing for 2 hours or killing a million critters for 2 hours, it's still boring.
As for standing still, combat in this game requires standing still, even for classes for which standing still makes no sense. You can't attack and move, plain and simple, and when all you're doing is attacking for a solid minute that's you not moving for a solid minute.
Using the Rogue as an example, theres that power that clones you and makes you leap backwards. The Rogue - the DPS machine striker - is removed from his target. He he then has to run back to his target, and ideally, run around his target in order to flank them and gain some tiny bit of advantage and not be in the arc of the targets very large weapon. During this time, the Rogue is not attacking. The agile, fragile speedster, DPS striker, can't do both at the same time, and in fact has powers that make his job harder. This same power prolongs his stealth... while then taking up more of his stealth time to return to combat. Movement requires a sacrifice to combat for the agile combatant.
This gets worse for other classes as well. The tank can't strafe to redirect attacks away from the party and maintain threat at the same time. The ranged damage dealer can't get out of harms way without stopping his assault (even Gandalf's useless self managed to flash his lightbulb while riding forward). And the healer can't follow the already useless movements of their party members to save them, who, when running, are unable to defend themselves.
So now I have to stand still for however long, because I can't move while combating, then run to my next target and do it again, blow for blow, until I finally get passed the stuff I already got passed. Wait, there's a sword that shortens the amount of time it takes to kill something absolutely worseless to get me passed the most boring and painful part of the game? Sold.
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maiku217Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Here are some items I received through HON pack + Nightmare Box (open with zen bought keys only). I hit 500s at level 2.
PS: Spent $400 on keys but no horse.. RNG SUCKS!
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xantrisMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
So the weapon you get from them founders pack it has to much dmg!
Even at lvl 35 I didnt haved such a weapon..
This game is lame with this weapon, face roll everithing..
The games a face roll for the first 30 levels anyway. After that you end up replacing the weapon, so who cares?
Comments
If it wasn't an excellent weapon, people would complain that they paid for trash.
What is stopping you from paying to get extra items in game that will also help you? Do you really expect them to make a game and have no profit at all with it?
How hard will it be to find a similar/better weapon/enchant at that level?
If it is easy/normal to find a superior weapon by the first pvp option, then what we have on our hands is a speed-leveling tool. same content but faster. Nobody is PVPing at level 4.
A shame you sell power, shoulda just stuck to cosmetics, actual xp boosts and things not considered pay to win. Bags, character slots, cooler looking mounts, pets, but not make your guy a power house.
If you sell this now, I am sure you will sell things to make your mid game guy strong and end game guy strong at some point.
I don't support pay to win man.
I want to go through the content and earn my way not buy my way to make it easier.
There are plenty of ways to sell stuff without it powering up the guy like weapons at lvl 1 to make him OP and pets that fight for him at lvl 1, etc.
PVPer rocking it Solo queue style since the dawn of Neverwinter
Well to be honest, I don't see what so fun 1-2 shotting the majority of mobs.
Good for you. Why do you care how some other guy plays the game as long as it doesn't affect YOUR game play? (aka PvP) Seriously why do you care?
Look at his post history. He seems to dislike every aspect of this game, but still lurks the forums.
.... Wait, isn't that a troll?
Because if I hit you with a sword, staff, mace, or any other hard object, you are going to stop fighting. You may not die right away, but its not going to take me 5-20 hits to take you out. My biggest gripe about SWTOR was that it DID take 5-6 hits with a *lightsaber* to disable an opponent.
Granted, its a fantasy game. Realism, physiology, and physics have no place in our discussions
ah so he is the self imposed "fun police" monitoring the forums for someone showing signs of enjoyment that differs from his own. he probably hates <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> marriage, other ethnic groups and "loud music".
Ever watch a fight with our weapons? Usually its a series of attacks/counters until one person wins. That is what HP is designed to represent in games. When those HP are gone in 1-2 hits its the equivalent of Luke running up to Vader and WTF PWNING him in 3 seconds. How epic.
1) "Pay to win" - Win what? PvP? A headstart weapon will not do that for you, as most "real" PvP happens at max with top end gear, so unless the headstart weapon is comparable with level 45-50 blue-purple gear and top tier enhancements, bull****. Win dungeons? How do you win dungeons? Gear is rolled for, and XP is shared. Leveling up faster? So.. the weapon is a problem but the XP boosts are ok? What about players who just grind faster? Are they winning?
2) OP at lower level? - Good. Founders have been playing the same lower levels for 3-4 beta weekends already. I don't want to see the same **** yet again, I've already worked through it once per class. Having to go through the tutorial is already painful - I did that like 10 times.
This isn't selling power, this is selling time. Claiming this is selling power is a misunderstanding to what selling power actually is and why its bad for the game, players and publishers.
And I don't see what's so fun about going through the same leveling path for the upteenth time.
On top of that, combat is fun, repetition is not. In MMOs, and most games in general, the fun and challenging aspect comes from dealing with multiple dangers at once, not chipping away at an endless wall for three days. It's about prioritizing targets and strategy rather than setting a macro to play through your chain while you go for a duece. It's the same reason people complain that most MMOs, and Cryptic's in particular, consider difficulty to be increasing the bag of HP you need to swing at.
One of the biggest flaws my mates and I found while playing Star Wars RPG PnP was that based on how we had built, there was no strategy, it was literally all dice rolls and hitting hp bags. It was essentially boiled down to whoever rolled higher out of 10. That stopped being fun. People took too long to die, and it became one on one five man teams that went nowhere. However one of the most fun times I ever had was in CoH fighting against waves of Freakshow baddies in a broken dimension, fists flying, blasts exploding in the background and a genuine sense of danger to be found.
Neverwinter's biggest highlight is its combat. Its biggest weakness in combat is being unable to move. If fights require 15 to 30 hits of two characters facing each other going blow for blow, that complete destroys the faced paced aspect that is its best feature.
(p.s. Johnny, chomag, I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything, I was just using your post as a jumping off point and wasn't directed at you specifically)
The problem with this comparison is that Vader is a BOSS character, and we have that, often, where it's blow for blow. For scrubs? For all the storm troopers on the way? He doesn't find an oponent, take his stance, plant his feet and then take turns swinging and shooting at each other while they both stand there, in the same spot, until the fight is over.
****, even WoW rogues can move during combat. Who thought a dodge and sneak based character should be planted in one spot?
Sometimes, Cryptic...... :rolleyes:
What your saying is that 15-30 seconds is too long a fight on 1v1 pvp.... Something that many people consider to be a very exciting and too rare thing. And this is why MMOs suck nowadays.
No info yet you need to be level 60 to open the box.
Very good point on Vader = boss. But still Luke didn't kill thousands of men to hone his skill for that encounter either. Point is assuming an equal time to level I'd rather kill 20 mobs to do it than 100. It would feel less grindish imo.
Not sure where the "stand still" part of things came from. No one here was advocating a stand still style of combat.
Yup. Nothing wrong with level speed boosts. Max level pvp/pve is what matters and from what i've seen in this thread, said weapon will be useless by then.
Are you serious?
It's awesome at early levels, yeah.
But trust me, you will out level it fast.
It's not meant to be held onto all the way through the game.
Relax. -.-
I much prefer to see enemy block and dodge my attacks until it's weapon or shield breaks or it fails the dodge, and then there will be blood.
Hitting punching bags all the time is just boring, I much rather one-shot things than hit them half dozen times. I want to deliver strikes that feel powerful, not just some female canine slapping.
And really, these P2W criers are a bad joke nowdays. Half of them are completely blind on what actually causes P2W, but sees it everywhere. Another half doesn't seem to even know what it means but cry anyway, as it is in fashion to do so.
And no as a rogue you can not dual-wield them. As far as I know anyway, you can get more then one weapon chest. But you cant open it as long as you possess a weapon. And no, the weapon wont scale. If you open the box at level 18 it will still be the same weapon as when you opened it at level 4-5
Show me where I said PvP. Show me where I said 15-30 seconds. Show me where I combined those too things.
Because I'm clearly misunderstanding my own point.
The rules for PvE do not apply to PvP - for example, an NPC can't kill an equal level player character anywhere near as fast as a player can kill an NPC. And even if they did nn NPC is also incapable of reacting to a player the same way another player is.
There's a difference between moderation in the amount of HP vs damage dealt, and that crossing the line into chiping becomes boring and painful.
Take two tanks that are maxed out on defense and HP in any game, and likely doing only moderate amounts of damage. Now plant them in place. How exciting would that PvP battle be?
There is no excitement with a sense of urgency. I'm not saying players should one shot each other. I'm not really saying very much about players doing anything to other players, but that aside, if players fight each other without some sense of consequences then it stops being fun.
You're confusing "time to level" with "number to kill." One proper AoE can kill off a solid 10 guys in a single hit while giving you absolutely no XP. I'm reminded of playing a blaster in CoH and killing 10k ritki monkeys. And both of those are irrelevent to combat being enjoyable.
We also don't get nearly the same rate of XP for grinding as we do for mission completion - like Luke completing his tutorial with Yoda and stopped being completely useless. Regardless, I'm not talking about grinding. I don't mean having to kill 10k monkeys to gain a level. That's absurd and pointless. But I'm also not talking about spending an entire day on a single boss and gaining 10 levels in one shot. That's just as crazy. What I am talking bout is repetition not being fun, be that hacking away at the same thing for 2 hours or killing a million critters for 2 hours, it's still boring.
As for standing still, combat in this game requires standing still, even for classes for which standing still makes no sense. You can't attack and move, plain and simple, and when all you're doing is attacking for a solid minute that's you not moving for a solid minute.
Using the Rogue as an example, theres that power that clones you and makes you leap backwards. The Rogue - the DPS machine striker - is removed from his target. He he then has to run back to his target, and ideally, run around his target in order to flank them and gain some tiny bit of advantage and not be in the arc of the targets very large weapon. During this time, the Rogue is not attacking. The agile, fragile speedster, DPS striker, can't do both at the same time, and in fact has powers that make his job harder. This same power prolongs his stealth... while then taking up more of his stealth time to return to combat. Movement requires a sacrifice to combat for the agile combatant.
This gets worse for other classes as well. The tank can't strafe to redirect attacks away from the party and maintain threat at the same time. The ranged damage dealer can't get out of harms way without stopping his assault (even Gandalf's useless self managed to flash his lightbulb while riding forward). And the healer can't follow the already useless movements of their party members to save them, who, when running, are unable to defend themselves.
So now I have to stand still for however long, because I can't move while combating, then run to my next target and do it again, blow for blow, until I finally get passed the stuff I already got passed. Wait, there's a sword that shortens the amount of time it takes to kill something absolutely worseless to get me passed the most boring and painful part of the game? Sold.
PS: Spent $400 on keys but no horse.. RNG SUCKS!
The games a face roll for the first 30 levels anyway. After that you end up replacing the weapon, so who cares?