So apparently there are non-combat pets, only available through the cash shop or with AD. My understanding is that these don't fight, they just sit there and boost your stats. Apparently there is no quest, gold, or in-game way to get these. The cat costs 980,000AD, which alone is 40 days of farming.
Considering what I have heard about companions in high level instances, it seems like non-combat pets will be indisputably superior, with normal companions being basically worthless (can anyone verify this?). If that is the case, this seems to be a very clear-cut case of obtaining power through the cash shop that is not otherwise available in the game.
Am I missing something? I wonder why this hasn't been noticed and brought up yet? Or maybe it has and I missed it.
oh my gosh lol... what is pay to win huh? What do you consider pay to win??? Seriously do the Devs need to make a post on the front page DEFINING it for you?
Look man, Pay to win is buying character power. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. Is NEVERWINTER pay to win? YES!!!! Is that a bad thing that affects ANYONE other than the person paying in NEVERWINTER? NO!!!!! Do you have to pay money for ANYTHING??? NO!!!! You can earn anything in the game by playing for a loooong time.
How is NEVERWINTER pay to win
Lifescrolls that allow boss progression with no consequences (I.E. free loot)
Healthstone that is a Superior health potion (duh as to why).
Lockboxes and keys. Lockboxes contain Tarmalune Bars, these can be used to purchase EPIC LEVEL 60 gear.
USD->ZEN->AD
AD is used to buy stuff on AH, oh look, more character power for sale.
AD is used to buy gear off Vendors, oh look, more character power for sale.
AD is used to buy almost everything in the game.
Look guys, Pay to win only matters if you REALLY care if that fellow over there is better than you because he has "better gear". Really who cares?? the only time it will affect you in a bad way is if you could buy pvp gear with it, but guess what. PVP gear uses GLORY not AD, not anything that can be bought with real money. That guy paying to win supports the game you want to play, it doesn't affect you that he can do more damage in foundry missions and there are ways to EARN everything he has by PLAYING the game.
TLDR: NEVERWINTER is pay to win, but it doesn't matter you E-peen SOB.
Apparently there is no quest, gold, or in-game way to get these. The cat costs 980,000AD, which alone is 40 days of farming. ... Am I missing something?
I think the part that you are overlooking, and that is often missed when it comes to AD, is that you can sell your drops or crafted stuff at the Auction House for AD. That is in addition to what you can farm. AD can also be converted to Zen, which means that you can get anything in the cash store without actually paying any cash.
Few other games give you this option. I certainly can't (legally) turn gold into dollars in WoW and then buy one of their cash shop items. I think it's a good system. If someone buys ADs, and you sell an item to them through the Auction House, you directly benefit from their purchase. My take on this would be different if you could only sell stuff for gold, but you can only sell it for ADs, which opens up everything for free players.
"DANGIT! THAT GUY BOUGHT ALL OF HIS GEAR BEFORE ME! COMPLETELY RUINS MY PLAY EXPERIENCE AND I ONLY EVER SEE HIM IN PVP! JUST HIM! NOONE ELSE IN THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY THAT PLAYS NORMALLY! JUST THE GUY THAT BOUGHT EVERYTHING!"
er....ok......
Are you new to mmos?
"Your story may not last forever; but it will exist forever"
Anyway...I dont get this P2W allegation because everything in the Zen store is available for everyone. I sound like a broken record saying this, but Freeload2Players can spend 40 hours grinding AD, I cannot.
AD can be traded for Zen in the Zen exchange. I need AD to buy in game items/services. There is no EASY way for me to grind AD so I MUST buy it. Clear now?
...the only time it will affect you in a bad way is if you could buy pvp gear with it, but guess what. PVP gear uses GLORY not AD,
1) Just for the record, I don't care. If it unbalances PvP I will just not PvP.
2) The quote above is in error. PvP and PvE gear are interchangeable. There is no PvP specific stat on gear such as resilience. The ONLY difference in PvP and PvE gear is slight variations in the stat array on them. PvP gear tends to have more life and be more rounded in the stat array where PvE gear is more focused on one or two primary stats on the gear and does not have added health bonus and such.
Buying PvE gear for PvP = Win = more Glory = faster PvP gear acquisition = keeping the advantage longer.
In the long run I do not believe it will matter, because both the end game PvP and PvE gear will be better than what can be bought. Early on, if people want to spend hundreds of dollars to progress faster in PvP, who cares. The only real cash win item in the end is the mounts with faster speed. If a team with all rank 3 mounts plays a team with all rank 1 mounts it certainly would be a hard advantage to overcome. That being said, that particular scenario also is temporary as eventually people with only AD to spend can get to a rank 3 mount.
In the end I think only the most stringent of definitions will see it as pay to win in PvP. It is mildly disturbing to me but I look forward to making those who buy their gear feel stupid on the battlefield. IMO the people that do that usually suck at playing anyways and pretty much need the advantage just to have a fighting chance.
We will all find out soon enough. My only fear is not the end game or how things will be months from now for the initial rush of players. My concern is how gentle the game is for a new player to walk into an established community a year, two, or more down the road. If that player cannot catch up in content and compete in a timely manner, the attrition will never be offset with a fresh supply of new players to keep the game alive and vibrant. Any sort of pay to win element or elitism in progression that does not reset the game from time to time and make us all start out even again (expansions and such) can be detrimental to the long term growth and health of the game. Without that reset to even the player community the game will slowly dwindle and die out.
Pay 2 win threads are about as useless as a "is it worth it" or "Can I get a refund?" post.
It's designed for one thing, to troll.
I disagree. Cryptic has demonstrated time and again that they read these forums and are willing to make changes based on feedback and popular demand. This thread and many others like it have been filled with some very mature feedback and discussion on an issue that is important to many many people. If you find it unimportant or irrelevant, then so be it. But please do not discredit valid discussions as trolling.
Pay 2 win threads are about as useless as a "is it worth it" or "Can I get a refund?" post.
It's designed for one thing, to troll.
I think it depends on the spirit of the debate and the posts. There is some trolling of course, that only speaks to the importance of the issue. If people really did not care, they would not bother to troll, on either side of the debate. It is probably the most emotional and volatile topic in free to play MMO games period, not just this one. When an MMO company figures out how to do a free to play model that has zero drama on this topic then they will probably have found the "WoWkiller". Until then the perceptions, true or not, valid or not, of the player community will limit these games to the fringe.
So it is important, very important, to have these threads. Because it will provide one of three things.
1) Provide valuable feedback in allowing the developer to provide a better and more successful product.
2) Allow the developer to address and educate the community on any ill conceived notions and errant perceptions.
3) Prove out to the player community that the game is indeed pay to win or not pay to win and allow them to adjust as they see fit to their gaming time and dollars.
No matter what, it is a win for many involved, even if not every individual cares, the developer stands to gain a lot from these threads. That is, so long as they are willing to listen, adapt, change, and find creative solutions to the problems at hand. On the other hand they could be like Bioware and bury their head in the sand providing the means for the greatest epic failure in MMO history.
Comments
Considering what I have heard about companions in high level instances, it seems like non-combat pets will be indisputably superior, with normal companions being basically worthless (can anyone verify this?). If that is the case, this seems to be a very clear-cut case of obtaining power through the cash shop that is not otherwise available in the game.
Am I missing something? I wonder why this hasn't been noticed and brought up yet? Or maybe it has and I missed it.
Look man, Pay to win is buying character power. IT IS THAT SIMPLE. Is NEVERWINTER pay to win? YES!!!! Is that a bad thing that affects ANYONE other than the person paying in NEVERWINTER? NO!!!!! Do you have to pay money for ANYTHING??? NO!!!! You can earn anything in the game by playing for a loooong time.
How is NEVERWINTER pay to win
Lifescrolls that allow boss progression with no consequences (I.E. free loot)
Healthstone that is a Superior health potion (duh as to why).
Lockboxes and keys. Lockboxes contain Tarmalune Bars, these can be used to purchase EPIC LEVEL 60 gear.
USD->ZEN->AD
AD is used to buy stuff on AH, oh look, more character power for sale.
AD is used to buy gear off Vendors, oh look, more character power for sale.
AD is used to buy almost everything in the game.
Look guys, Pay to win only matters if you REALLY care if that fellow over there is better than you because he has "better gear". Really who cares?? the only time it will affect you in a bad way is if you could buy pvp gear with it, but guess what. PVP gear uses GLORY not AD, not anything that can be bought with real money. That guy paying to win supports the game you want to play, it doesn't affect you that he can do more damage in foundry missions and there are ways to EARN everything he has by PLAYING the game.
TLDR: NEVERWINTER is pay to win, but it doesn't matter you E-peen SOB.
I think the part that you are overlooking, and that is often missed when it comes to AD, is that you can sell your drops or crafted stuff at the Auction House for AD. That is in addition to what you can farm. AD can also be converted to Zen, which means that you can get anything in the cash store without actually paying any cash.
Few other games give you this option. I certainly can't (legally) turn gold into dollars in WoW and then buy one of their cash shop items. I think it's a good system. If someone buys ADs, and you sell an item to them through the Auction House, you directly benefit from their purchase. My take on this would be different if you could only sell stuff for gold, but you can only sell it for ADs, which opens up everything for free players.
Are you new to mmos?
AD can be traded for Zen in the Zen exchange. I need AD to buy in game items/services. There is no EASY way for me to grind AD so I MUST buy it. Clear now?
1) Just for the record, I don't care. If it unbalances PvP I will just not PvP.
2) The quote above is in error. PvP and PvE gear are interchangeable. There is no PvP specific stat on gear such as resilience. The ONLY difference in PvP and PvE gear is slight variations in the stat array on them. PvP gear tends to have more life and be more rounded in the stat array where PvE gear is more focused on one or two primary stats on the gear and does not have added health bonus and such.
Buying PvE gear for PvP = Win = more Glory = faster PvP gear acquisition = keeping the advantage longer.
In the long run I do not believe it will matter, because both the end game PvP and PvE gear will be better than what can be bought. Early on, if people want to spend hundreds of dollars to progress faster in PvP, who cares. The only real cash win item in the end is the mounts with faster speed. If a team with all rank 3 mounts plays a team with all rank 1 mounts it certainly would be a hard advantage to overcome. That being said, that particular scenario also is temporary as eventually people with only AD to spend can get to a rank 3 mount.
In the end I think only the most stringent of definitions will see it as pay to win in PvP. It is mildly disturbing to me but I look forward to making those who buy their gear feel stupid on the battlefield. IMO the people that do that usually suck at playing anyways and pretty much need the advantage just to have a fighting chance.
We will all find out soon enough. My only fear is not the end game or how things will be months from now for the initial rush of players. My concern is how gentle the game is for a new player to walk into an established community a year, two, or more down the road. If that player cannot catch up in content and compete in a timely manner, the attrition will never be offset with a fresh supply of new players to keep the game alive and vibrant. Any sort of pay to win element or elitism in progression that does not reset the game from time to time and make us all start out even again (expansions and such) can be detrimental to the long term growth and health of the game. Without that reset to even the player community the game will slowly dwindle and die out.
It's designed for one thing, to troll.
I disagree. Cryptic has demonstrated time and again that they read these forums and are willing to make changes based on feedback and popular demand. This thread and many others like it have been filled with some very mature feedback and discussion on an issue that is important to many many people. If you find it unimportant or irrelevant, then so be it. But please do not discredit valid discussions as trolling.
I think it depends on the spirit of the debate and the posts. There is some trolling of course, that only speaks to the importance of the issue. If people really did not care, they would not bother to troll, on either side of the debate. It is probably the most emotional and volatile topic in free to play MMO games period, not just this one. When an MMO company figures out how to do a free to play model that has zero drama on this topic then they will probably have found the "WoWkiller". Until then the perceptions, true or not, valid or not, of the player community will limit these games to the fringe.
So it is important, very important, to have these threads. Because it will provide one of three things.
1) Provide valuable feedback in allowing the developer to provide a better and more successful product.
2) Allow the developer to address and educate the community on any ill conceived notions and errant perceptions.
3) Prove out to the player community that the game is indeed pay to win or not pay to win and allow them to adjust as they see fit to their gaming time and dollars.
No matter what, it is a win for many involved, even if not every individual cares, the developer stands to gain a lot from these threads. That is, so long as they are willing to listen, adapt, change, and find creative solutions to the problems at hand. On the other hand they could be like Bioware and bury their head in the sand providing the means for the greatest epic failure in MMO history.