Each hour there is a new 'event' happening. they can vary from + resources from professions, +crafting exp, 1,000 AD per completion of Skirmishes, Bonus Loot at end of Dungeon, etc.
Everyone has access to free Zen via the Zen Offers. I have a green link in my sig just for this. I've met 1 person that made over 3,000 Zen just by filling out free surveys.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
Never understood what the big deal with P2W was.
"DANGIT! THAT GUY BOUGHT ALL OF HIS GEAR BEFORE ME! COMPLETELY RUINS MY PLAY EXPERIENCE AND I ONLY EVER SEE HIM IN PVP! JUST HIM! NOONE ELSE IN THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY THAT PLAYS NORMALLY! JUST THE GUY THAT BOUGHT EVERYTHING!"
er....ok......
"If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"DANGIT! THAT GUY BOUGHT ALL OF HIS GEAR BEFORE ME! COMPLETELY RUINS MY PLAY EXPERIENCE AND I ONLY EVER SEE HIM IN PVP! JUST HIM! NOONE ELSE IN THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY THAT PLAYS NORMALLY! JUST THE GUY THAT BOUGHT EVERYTHING!"
er....ok......
The problem arises when you are faced against said person and you have no chance to beat said person. Now if even 10% of server was able to purchase top armor/weapons/enchants and your pvp pug were against them. how do you win?
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
Everyone has access to free Zen via the Zen Offers. I have a green link in my sig just for this. I've met 1 person that made over 3,000 Zen just by filling out free surveys.
And getting an inbox flooded with spam, spam and more spam till time immemorial. No thanks.
0
oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The problem arises when you are faced against said person and you have no chance to beat said person. Now if even 10% of server was able to purchase top armor/weapons/enchants and your pvp pug were against them. how do you win?
It's just like life. Everyone has the same opportunities but others will naturally capitalize on them more efficiently then you.
There's also the fact that everyone is scaled up to the highest level participant in PvP so the only real unevenness is skill availability and gear.
With that in mind the most logical time to even think about doing meaningful PvP would be at endgame and even if you don't, the scaling only effects level, not gear, so everyone's gonna be different than everyone as far as progression goes so it's impossible to tell who bought what and who earned what.
Also hi, you're in my other thread. lolz
"If you're going through Hell, keep going." -Winston Churchill
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
oreoz2573Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The problem arises when you are faced against said person and you have no chance to beat said person. Now if even 10% of server was able to purchase top armor/weapons/enchants and your pvp pug were against them. how do you win?
not if u dont have to win it dont make any big problem at least to me .problem would be if they made system where u need to win to gain glory and if u lose match u lose glory but they did not and i hope they never will
not if u dont have to win it dont make any big problem at least to me .problem would be if they made system where u need to win to gain glory and if u lose match u lose glory but they did not and i hope they never will
there is no glory in losing only humiliation. (I dont know how the Glory currency is going to work.)
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
By the time I get through the 20 survey pages they always want you to sign up for something before they'll actually give you the reward.
trash email account, so long as it doesnt cost anything. if it does, then copy the offer down and report it to PWE. If it's optional then just ignore it.
Open the Launcher. Click Options near the top. Check Disable on-demand patching. This will download another couple of gigs.
trash email account, so long as it doesnt cost anything. if it does, then copy the offer down and report it to PWE. If it's optional then just ignore it.
the last couple weeks I just been watching the 3-5 16sec corona ads for 3 zen a pop.
takes me like 45 sec for 9-15 zen
I do it every morning before work. and when I get home after work as they where reset.
Netted myself about 300 zen total over a week and a half.:D
I appreciate the info, I guess I am just used to more traditional MMO's where time invested is everything.
Which ones? In WoW, you pay for the game, for every expansion and you also pay a monthly fee (you will not even play without paying, let alone win -- the moment you stop paying, everything you have "worked" and paid for is no longer accessible) and yet they have a cash store for mounts and pets which you cannot get in the game. And loot cards from the TGC. Name changes, character changes, server transfers, all of that costs extra. You are also not allowed to sell items or gold for battle.net currency, whereas here you can do all that.
Here, you can get everything -- at least everything that is functionally the same -- by just playing. You never have to pay, you can get convenience stuff by exchanging game currency for store credit, and even if you pay for something, you will not have to keep paying just so you can use it. It is more comsumer-friendly than B2P games that in addition to the initial price also have a subscription fee and a cash store on top of it.
To me, what's more important about this model isn't that you can play without paying; it's that when you do pay, you can pay for just what you want, not for stuff you don't want.
For example, I don't play a lot of alts, and I don't play my alts much. I don't need a bunch of character slots. Why should I pay for character slots I won't use? I'd rather spend that money on stuff I will use. On the other hand, I am a bit of a pack rat, and I keep stuff in my bank just in case I need it. I'm happy to pay for those extra bank slots, and I don't expect folks who don't fill their banks up to pay for my clutter.
This model lets us both spend only on what we want. Does this mean that the folks who want EVERYTHING will spend more? Sure; but they're using more, so why shouldn't they pay for it? Why should the guy who just wants to play a few hours on weekends have to pay for their maxed-out banks, character slots, and consumables stacks?
It's a great model. I'll spend more money when it's TARGETED money. ala-carte works.
I really want to like this game but from what I have read it seems to be one of the worst offenders of pay to win yet. If i can get my toon everything it needs just by buying it then whats the point?
I hope Ive just missed somthing but when i hear that its ok they charge 40 bucks for a mount because it would take forever to get a mount earned in game to level 3 i just cringe.
So you're crying over the mount cost? Then get a job. I don't have time to waste to grind for a lvl3 mount, so I pay $ for it. I also don't have time like typical f2p freeloaders do, so the extra speed means I can enjoy the game more in the limited time I have.
Not everyone who buys these items has so much spare time to waste, because we have lives/jobs. I should start complaining about how the levelling curve doesn't support casual players so that I can get to 60 faster. Means all the freeloaders will run out of things to do quicker.
Think a bit bigger picture than your own limited, cheap views.
So you're crying over the mount cost? Then get a job. I don't have time to waste to grind for a lvl3 mount, so I pay $ for it. I also don't have time like typical f2p freeloaders do, so the extra speed means I can enjoy the game more in the limited time I have.
Excellent point. People who have the money to pay for stuff from the cash store are often people who have less time to play, because they have jobs and families and perhaps a different appreciation for recreation time. On the other end of the spectrum you may have people who have plenty of spare time (temporarily out of a job, ill, student, etc.) but lack funds, so they have the option to spend time instead of money. The model used here allows both groups to play and enjoy the game exactly how they want and can, without being forced to either play all day to keep up or to shell out money that they may not have. It's win-win, and that is why NW's business model is great.
Those aspects aside, a model like this also allows people to play more selectively, as Syber mentioned. Looking at WoW, it happened often that I felt I HAD to do repetitive stuff and invest a lot of completely un-fun time in order to get a character to the point where I could do what I wanted or get what subjectively increased my game experience. For example, grinding for the Winterspring tiger mount early on. It took ungodly amount of stupidly boring and unenjoyable grind time to get the mount. It wasn't fun, it wasn't challenging. It was sitting there and acting like a bot, for dozens of hours. If I could have bought it for twenty or forty bucks, I would have done it, because recreation time is limited and I prefer spending it on stuff that I actually have fun doing.
Likewise with gold. There were vanity pets and costume-type of stuff I really wanted, or some gear that dropped for others but not me, but since I couldn't buy gold legally or safely, I had to farm and grind it. It felt like a second job, not like playing a game. Heck, early on when there was no dual-spec and gold was hard to come by, I had to spend an hour or two every day farming gold just so that I could respec my priest from healer to damage dealer (and then back) so that I could do something on my own. I'd have gladly paid real cash instead of doing something I didn't enjoy and that bred resentment. (And spending several hours a week on running in circles to farm materials for flasks so I could raid on the weekend was not much better. I sacrificed sleep when work was busy just for that, and in those times I would have been happy to just to pay for the convenience.)
This doesn't mean that you (or I) can't have fun grinding. There are times I enjoy that, when it feels fun and rewarding, and times where something frustrates me and I'd rather pay for it. As long as players have the choice -- and here they do have that choice --, and you can't buy stuff that makes you "better" in PvP without also being able to "work" for it in the game, I see no flaws in this approach. It offers a maximum of flexibility and choice. What's not to like?
Everyone has access to free Zen via the Zen Offers. I have a green link in my sig just for this. I've met 1 person that made over 3,000 Zen just by filling out free surveys.
How the heck could you promote such sleaze is beyond me.
And I notice, everyone who has that $200 dollar pack is smashing down the p2w viscously.
Not saying it is or isn't p2w, just an observation
And I notice, everyone who has that $200 dollar pack is smashing down the p2w viscously.
Not saying it is or isn't p2w, just an observation
In my case, the purchase of the founder pack is a direct result of the game not being pay-to-win. That was the first thing I researched when I learned of Neverwinter. Had it been pay-to-win, I would not have been interested and not bought the pack.
So yes, for me, there is definitely a connection between buying the pack and the belief that the game does not give free players a gameplay disadvantage. The reason for this is that I look at other people in a MMO as part of the content. I don't want to play a MMO on deserted servers, and pay-to-win usually has that result.
How the heck could you promote such sleaze is beyond me.
And I notice, everyone who has that $200 dollar pack is smashing down the p2w viscously.
Not saying it is or isn't p2w, just an observation
[flame]maybe it's because we're smart enough and understand how the world works to have jobs and can afford it?[/flame]
Notice how those who didn't are walking around with their hands out wanting everything free because we live in a pure communist society that promotes people sitting on their arses expecting handouts.
0
snowy1970Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 7Arc User
edited April 2013
Could be worse... GW2 has RNG roulette!
"The statistics on sanity are that 1 out of every 4 people are suffering from some form of mental illness. Think of 3 of your friends. If they are okay? Then it's YOU!"
0
dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
An item with 200 charges of instant full heal sounds P2W to me. As does being able to convert ZEN to AD and buy gear in game with AD. The question is will the top end gear be purchasable. Lack of answer to that has kept my from buying a founders pack.
FYI being able to get the same stuff in game doesn't mean its not P2W. If there is an option to pay instead of play for items that give you in game advantages that = P2W since paying is one of the options. And its far from the "cosmetic and convenience only" we're being told.
0
colhatickMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
The best gear in the game will most likely be bind on pickup
0
dcoy1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited April 2013
I really hope so. But as TERA proved to me, you never know. If anyone can give definite proof NWO won't go the TERA route you'll sell 2 more founders packs for them ).
Why would it be pay-to-win if the best gear could also be purchased from other players?
In the end, it's all about time. If you have plenty of time, you can play a lot and get the best gear. If you don't have a lot of time, then that's probably because you have a demanding job. Money that comes from that job would then allow you to be competitive without playing 8-12+ hours a day. It's just a different form of time investment.
Note that this is a hypothetical statement. As far as I know, the best gear in NW is BoP. I just don't necessarily see the fundamental difference between someone playing for 5 hours and getting item X, and someone working for 5 hours and then paying cash for item X. Both players will have the same item with the only difference being that they got it in different ways (but both invested time).
Pay-to-win is if you can only purchase top gear with money, and have no way of alternatively obtaining it by playing. Neverwinter does not have this, so it is not pay-to-win.
Pay-to-win is if you can only purchase top gear with money, and have no way of alternatively obtaining it by playing. Neverwinter does not have this, so it is not pay-to-win.
Not true at all. If paying is a method to "win" its pay to win. Regardless of what other methods also "win". I play games to PLAY them. I want to develop my character and see the results IN GAME. If I wanted to pay to play virtual dressup I'd do look for that outside an MMO.
I got an idea. I think I'll go play golf tomorrow. But since I don't have as much time to practice as some players I'll go to the clubhouse and buy a token that let's me drop the ball in the hole once I reach the green. Guess that would be fun by your logic.
0
silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
An item with 200 charges of instant full heal sounds P2W to me. As does being able to convert ZEN to AD and buy gear in game with AD. The question is will the top end gear be purchasable. Lack of answer to that has kept my from buying a founders pack.
FYI being able to get the same stuff in game doesn't mean its not P2W. If there is an option to pay instead of play for items that give you in game advantages that = P2W since paying is one of the options. And its far from the "cosmetic and convenience only" we're being told.
When you buy gear in game with AD on the Auction House you are buying it from another player. Somebody had to actually find it in game to put it up for sale. That means you aren't buying any kind of advantage over players who aren't paying cash. You are not paying to win. At best you are paying to catch up with the seller.
And paying cash as an option to get something that can be otherwise obtained is absolutely only a convenience. It saves you having to go get it yourself. It saves you time and effort in game. An easier or less time consuming way to get something is kind of the definition of the word convenience. In other words, if there is a less convenient way to get something than paying cash, then paying cash is simply a convenience.
Not true at all. If paying is a method to "win" its pay to win. Regardless of what other methods also "win". I play games to PLAY them. I want to develop my character and see the results IN GAME. If I wanted to pay to play virtual dressup I'd do look for that outside an MMO.
If you can either buy an item from another player or farm it yourself, then nothing prevents you from playing the game exactly the way you want. You can just farm it, you don't have to buy it. The person spending money on the same item would not be better than you. They would have the exactly same gear. You would probably be better because you have more practice, but it wouldn't be because of the gear.
I got an idea. I think I'll go play golf tomorrow. But since I don't have as much time to practice as some players I'll go to the clubhouse and buy a token that let's me drop the ball in the hole once I reach the green. Guess that would be fun by your logic.
Close, but no cigar. Here is a better analogy:
For whatever reason, you enjoy handcrafting your golf club. You have plenty of time to sit all day in your workshop and work on that. John, on the other hand, also likes to play golf, but he doesn't really have as much time as you do, because he's got a demanding job, a family, or other responsibilities that prevent him from working on his own golf club for many hours. By your logic, John should not be allowed to compete on the golf course at all, unless he crafts his own club instead of just buying it from someone who crafted or manufactured it.
Majority of people who spend money will not spend a ridiculous amount of money to get ahead. Mostly to keep up if they choose to. Yes there are a few exceptions who have an endless pocket butthats an extreme example. and maybe .00001% of mmo players.
Players who have more time will always be ahead and richer in free2play games. Cash shops usually provide items that help players who don't have as much time to keep up a little. But in the end a player who has more time to play will always be ahead of players who pay. Even in pay to win games a person who has more time will likely still be ahead of players with less time but are willing to buy cash shop items.
I have played a lot of mmos and a lot of them were free to play and even some with ridiculous cash shops but majority of people who were leading servers were always people with crazy amount of time to play and they hardly spent RL money.
will mounts be restricted to the slowest speed in pvp? seems more than a convenience to have the additional speed for sale. for those progressing faster and farming higher content gear, is that gear not available in pvp?
how is someone that payed little going to have any chance vs someone that's payed for a fast mount right away and is accelerated through crafting/content? they just have to get farmed until they catch up in gear/mount speed?
0
obsituusMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 11Arc User
edited April 2013
Out of curiosity, and I know it was said earlier in the thread, how is a game that primarily focuses around PvE ever going to be truly "pay to win"? There are other PvE games that lock progression via cash shops, or don't directly lock progression but make it so you need certain gear to progress and that gear is only available in the cash shop, but this game doesn't appear to be going that route at all. Could it change in the future? Sure, I guess, but I don't suspect it will. The health stone thing is a bit OP, but it isn't game breaking at all in my opinion.
When they start adding Flaming Sword of Awesomeness +10 to the store and that same sword isn't available in the game then I will be inclined to agree with your "pay to win" gripes, however I haven't seen a single thing in the store like that so... no. I am actually so pleased by what I have seen in the videos, the concept of the Foundry, and the fact that the cash shop does indeed look purely optional that I signed up today for the $60 pack - AFTER all the beta weekends.
The day it does convert to a system where I will never get ahead without buying my way through gated content via cash shop items, I will quit. Until that day comes, if ever, I will enjoy what appears to be a pretty awesome game. To each their own, I suppose.
will mounts be restricted to the slowest speed in pvp? seems more than a convenience to have the additional speed for sale. for those progressing faster and farming higher content gear, is that gear not available in pvp?
how is someone that payed little going to have any chance vs someone that's payed for a fast mount right away and is accelerated through crafting/content? they just have to get farmed until they catch up in gear/mount speed?
well you get demounted upon dmg. Mounts in PvP only helps you get to your objective a little faster and i believe the mounts are all the same speeds.
Comments
Everyone has access to free Zen via the Zen Offers. I have a green link in my sig just for this. I've met 1 person that made over 3,000 Zen just by filling out free surveys.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
"DANGIT! THAT GUY BOUGHT ALL OF HIS GEAR BEFORE ME! COMPLETELY RUINS MY PLAY EXPERIENCE AND I ONLY EVER SEE HIM IN PVP! JUST HIM! NOONE ELSE IN THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY THAT PLAYS NORMALLY! JUST THE GUY THAT BOUGHT EVERYTHING!"
er....ok......
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The problem arises when you are faced against said person and you have no chance to beat said person. Now if even 10% of server was able to purchase top armor/weapons/enchants and your pvp pug were against them. how do you win?
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
And getting an inbox flooded with spam, spam and more spam till time immemorial. No thanks.
It's just like life. Everyone has the same opportunities but others will naturally capitalize on them more efficiently then you.
There's also the fact that everyone is scaled up to the highest level participant in PvP so the only real unevenness is skill availability and gear.
With that in mind the most logical time to even think about doing meaningful PvP would be at endgame and even if you don't, the scaling only effects level, not gear, so everyone's gonna be different than everyone as far as progression goes so it's impossible to tell who bought what and who earned what.
Also hi, you're in my other thread. lolz
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
That's what a spam box is for.
spam is a small price to pay provided you consistently check ur email, preventing an overload.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
that's what disposable email accounts are for.
there is no glory in losing only humiliation. (I dont know how the Glory currency is going to work.)
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
trash email account, so long as it doesnt cost anything. if it does, then copy the offer down and report it to PWE. If it's optional then just ignore it.
Ability Scores || All Attribute Roll Combinations || My Cleric Stream \o/
the last couple weeks I just been watching the 3-5 16sec corona ads for 3 zen a pop.
takes me like 45 sec for 9-15 zen
I do it every morning before work. and when I get home after work as they where reset.
Netted myself about 300 zen total over a week and a half.:D
Which ones? In WoW, you pay for the game, for every expansion and you also pay a monthly fee (you will not even play without paying, let alone win -- the moment you stop paying, everything you have "worked" and paid for is no longer accessible) and yet they have a cash store for mounts and pets which you cannot get in the game. And loot cards from the TGC. Name changes, character changes, server transfers, all of that costs extra. You are also not allowed to sell items or gold for battle.net currency, whereas here you can do all that.
Here, you can get everything -- at least everything that is functionally the same -- by just playing. You never have to pay, you can get convenience stuff by exchanging game currency for store credit, and even if you pay for something, you will not have to keep paying just so you can use it. It is more comsumer-friendly than B2P games that in addition to the initial price also have a subscription fee and a cash store on top of it.
For example, I don't play a lot of alts, and I don't play my alts much. I don't need a bunch of character slots. Why should I pay for character slots I won't use? I'd rather spend that money on stuff I will use. On the other hand, I am a bit of a pack rat, and I keep stuff in my bank just in case I need it. I'm happy to pay for those extra bank slots, and I don't expect folks who don't fill their banks up to pay for my clutter.
This model lets us both spend only on what we want. Does this mean that the folks who want EVERYTHING will spend more? Sure; but they're using more, so why shouldn't they pay for it? Why should the guy who just wants to play a few hours on weekends have to pay for their maxed-out banks, character slots, and consumables stacks?
It's a great model. I'll spend more money when it's TARGETED money. ala-carte works.
So you're crying over the mount cost? Then get a job. I don't have time to waste to grind for a lvl3 mount, so I pay $ for it. I also don't have time like typical f2p freeloaders do, so the extra speed means I can enjoy the game more in the limited time I have.
Not everyone who buys these items has so much spare time to waste, because we have lives/jobs. I should start complaining about how the levelling curve doesn't support casual players so that I can get to 60 faster. Means all the freeloaders will run out of things to do quicker.
Think a bit bigger picture than your own limited, cheap views.
Excellent point. People who have the money to pay for stuff from the cash store are often people who have less time to play, because they have jobs and families and perhaps a different appreciation for recreation time. On the other end of the spectrum you may have people who have plenty of spare time (temporarily out of a job, ill, student, etc.) but lack funds, so they have the option to spend time instead of money. The model used here allows both groups to play and enjoy the game exactly how they want and can, without being forced to either play all day to keep up or to shell out money that they may not have. It's win-win, and that is why NW's business model is great.
Those aspects aside, a model like this also allows people to play more selectively, as Syber mentioned. Looking at WoW, it happened often that I felt I HAD to do repetitive stuff and invest a lot of completely un-fun time in order to get a character to the point where I could do what I wanted or get what subjectively increased my game experience. For example, grinding for the Winterspring tiger mount early on. It took ungodly amount of stupidly boring and unenjoyable grind time to get the mount. It wasn't fun, it wasn't challenging. It was sitting there and acting like a bot, for dozens of hours. If I could have bought it for twenty or forty bucks, I would have done it, because recreation time is limited and I prefer spending it on stuff that I actually have fun doing.
Likewise with gold. There were vanity pets and costume-type of stuff I really wanted, or some gear that dropped for others but not me, but since I couldn't buy gold legally or safely, I had to farm and grind it. It felt like a second job, not like playing a game. Heck, early on when there was no dual-spec and gold was hard to come by, I had to spend an hour or two every day farming gold just so that I could respec my priest from healer to damage dealer (and then back) so that I could do something on my own. I'd have gladly paid real cash instead of doing something I didn't enjoy and that bred resentment. (And spending several hours a week on running in circles to farm materials for flasks so I could raid on the weekend was not much better. I sacrificed sleep when work was busy just for that, and in those times I would have been happy to just to pay for the convenience.)
This doesn't mean that you (or I) can't have fun grinding. There are times I enjoy that, when it feels fun and rewarding, and times where something frustrates me and I'd rather pay for it. As long as players have the choice -- and here they do have that choice --, and you can't buy stuff that makes you "better" in PvP without also being able to "work" for it in the game, I see no flaws in this approach. It offers a maximum of flexibility and choice. What's not to like?
How the heck could you promote such sleaze is beyond me.
And I notice, everyone who has that $200 dollar pack is smashing down the p2w viscously.
Not saying it is or isn't p2w, just an observation
In my case, the purchase of the founder pack is a direct result of the game not being pay-to-win. That was the first thing I researched when I learned of Neverwinter. Had it been pay-to-win, I would not have been interested and not bought the pack.
So yes, for me, there is definitely a connection between buying the pack and the belief that the game does not give free players a gameplay disadvantage. The reason for this is that I look at other people in a MMO as part of the content. I don't want to play a MMO on deserted servers, and pay-to-win usually has that result.
[flame]maybe it's because we're smart enough and understand how the world works to have jobs and can afford it?[/flame]
Notice how those who didn't are walking around with their hands out wanting everything free because we live in a pure communist society that promotes people sitting on their arses expecting handouts.
FYI being able to get the same stuff in game doesn't mean its not P2W. If there is an option to pay instead of play for items that give you in game advantages that = P2W since paying is one of the options. And its far from the "cosmetic and convenience only" we're being told.
In the end, it's all about time. If you have plenty of time, you can play a lot and get the best gear. If you don't have a lot of time, then that's probably because you have a demanding job. Money that comes from that job would then allow you to be competitive without playing 8-12+ hours a day. It's just a different form of time investment.
Note that this is a hypothetical statement. As far as I know, the best gear in NW is BoP. I just don't necessarily see the fundamental difference between someone playing for 5 hours and getting item X, and someone working for 5 hours and then paying cash for item X. Both players will have the same item with the only difference being that they got it in different ways (but both invested time).
Pay-to-win is if you can only purchase top gear with money, and have no way of alternatively obtaining it by playing. Neverwinter does not have this, so it is not pay-to-win.
Not true at all. If paying is a method to "win" its pay to win. Regardless of what other methods also "win". I play games to PLAY them. I want to develop my character and see the results IN GAME. If I wanted to pay to play virtual dressup I'd do look for that outside an MMO.
I got an idea. I think I'll go play golf tomorrow. But since I don't have as much time to practice as some players I'll go to the clubhouse and buy a token that let's me drop the ball in the hole once I reach the green. Guess that would be fun by your logic.
When you buy gear in game with AD on the Auction House you are buying it from another player. Somebody had to actually find it in game to put it up for sale. That means you aren't buying any kind of advantage over players who aren't paying cash. You are not paying to win. At best you are paying to catch up with the seller.
And paying cash as an option to get something that can be otherwise obtained is absolutely only a convenience. It saves you having to go get it yourself. It saves you time and effort in game. An easier or less time consuming way to get something is kind of the definition of the word convenience. In other words, if there is a less convenient way to get something than paying cash, then paying cash is simply a convenience.
Champions Online Advanced Forum Search
If you can either buy an item from another player or farm it yourself, then nothing prevents you from playing the game exactly the way you want. You can just farm it, you don't have to buy it. The person spending money on the same item would not be better than you. They would have the exactly same gear. You would probably be better because you have more practice, but it wouldn't be because of the gear.
Close, but no cigar. Here is a better analogy:
For whatever reason, you enjoy handcrafting your golf club. You have plenty of time to sit all day in your workshop and work on that. John, on the other hand, also likes to play golf, but he doesn't really have as much time as you do, because he's got a demanding job, a family, or other responsibilities that prevent him from working on his own golf club for many hours. By your logic, John should not be allowed to compete on the golf course at all, unless he crafts his own club instead of just buying it from someone who crafted or manufactured it.
Time > money
Majority of people who spend money will not spend a ridiculous amount of money to get ahead. Mostly to keep up if they choose to. Yes there are a few exceptions who have an endless pocket butthats an extreme example. and maybe .00001% of mmo players.
Players who have more time will always be ahead and richer in free2play games. Cash shops usually provide items that help players who don't have as much time to keep up a little. But in the end a player who has more time to play will always be ahead of players who pay. Even in pay to win games a person who has more time will likely still be ahead of players with less time but are willing to buy cash shop items.
I have played a lot of mmos and a lot of them were free to play and even some with ridiculous cash shops but majority of people who were leading servers were always people with crazy amount of time to play and they hardly spent RL money.
how is someone that payed little going to have any chance vs someone that's payed for a fast mount right away and is accelerated through crafting/content? they just have to get farmed until they catch up in gear/mount speed?
When they start adding Flaming Sword of Awesomeness +10 to the store and that same sword isn't available in the game then I will be inclined to agree with your "pay to win" gripes, however I haven't seen a single thing in the store like that so... no. I am actually so pleased by what I have seen in the videos, the concept of the Foundry, and the fact that the cash shop does indeed look purely optional that I signed up today for the $60 pack - AFTER all the beta weekends.
The day it does convert to a system where I will never get ahead without buying my way through gated content via cash shop items, I will quit. Until that day comes, if ever, I will enjoy what appears to be a pretty awesome game. To each their own, I suppose.
well you get demounted upon dmg. Mounts in PvP only helps you get to your objective a little faster and i believe the mounts are all the same speeds.