Raids

valdorax

Sorry to bring this up again, but I think this subject should still be discussed if only to illustrate that the raid concept (however it is implemented) is important to a LOT of players. I feel that it's usually less about the "phat lewt" than it is the understandable concept of simply being able to defeat content / bosses and strategize with more players than the standard 5. It makes no sense to say that a dungeon is a "raid" when you still only have 5 players. If the content is harder, then call it heroic, but a "raid" means more players, since numerous attackers is the inherent meaning of the word "raid" obviously.

Raiding is fun to me (and most people I've discussed this with) because you are with a larger group of people (at least 10 or more) and it just has that epic feel to it, more akin to a battle. And when you are fighting a boss and it requires a large group to defeat, that boss naturally feels hugely powerful and the fight feels epic. The strategy requires much much more team work on everyone's part, and that is great. Any time a game can provide more of a challenge requiring more team work is a good thing.

In my opinion, the only people who don't care for raids are either the people who can't commit due to time, solo players who don't care for working with others as a team, or people who feel forced to raid because of loot. All of these issues are easily treatable. Make shorter raids for people with less time. And for those who don't like them or can't work as a team, create content that provides the same level of rewards by playing a more "solo" or small group aspect of the game. And to those old schoolers who say raids are not true to D&D, oh come on... how is simply having a larger dungeon or harder bosses, designed for more people not D&D? Is it really be worth it to get all up in arms over having a dungeon that requires 10 people as opposed to 5? There doesn't seem to be much of an argument there.

I personally hope they add some sort of raiding in the future as strictly 5 man content can become boring over time, especially when you know that's all there is and there are no epic battles or boss fights awaiting you in your progression, in addition to other playable aspects of the game of course. Again, I don't agree that raids (or larger scale content) should have unique loot that is "more powerful" than all the other loot and only attainable by participating in raids. I am a firm believer in giving people options to progress their characters.

Take part in this poll to voice your opinion on this subject, as I see that it is important to a lot of folks one way or another.

UPDATE: Potential good news for all you raiders out there. I say "potential" because to me, it is not yet official until we hear it straight from the horses mouth. But in this video a well known game news channel claims that he was informed that Neverwinter will in fact have raids as part of it's endgame design sometime after release, possibly even a year. This seems like good news as it does not seem likely that the developers would mention something that important to the gaming press if there were not some truth to it, as pointed out by Elewyndyl, who provided us with this link.

Here is the link, fast forward to 3:57 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=EeicfJGm-k8

And by the way, if anyone at all has any more information, videos, or links regarding the development of raids and larger group content for Neverwinter, please don't hesitate to post it in this forum so I can add it here as an update. Thanks! And thank you for all your input and votes!

nikadaemus

I loved the '10 man feel' in WoW (ya before it became what it is) Zul'Aman for example.

Was still a group feel but bigger lol. 25-40 just seems a little too much. Sure it's 'epic' but not sure if you get as much out of it tbh

(plus then you deal with slackers and afkers lawl!!)

I really do want this content though. Its what guilds are made for. Not running 5 man dungeons!

cdam

Keep it 10, maybe 12 man if you want to stretch it. I believe these are the ideal numbers for challenging content where everyone has to pull their weight. Five man content can be just as epic, but I agree a few more friends make the scale seem a bit more severe. Personally, my favorite approach has been Rift's 10 man raids and 5 man Master-mode dungeons. The Master Modes are some of the most challenging and fun content I have ever been a part of.

nikadaemus

There are epic 5 mans for every single dungeon at L60. Supposed to be challenging

ironzerg79

Personally, I'd love to see someone implement raid scaling in a meaningful way, to allow for everyone to play in the way they need.

Give me a big raid boss that's doable with 5 people, but scales up to 20. You can do it with 5, 8, 10, 16, or 20 people. The reason I want to see the scaling is, while it gives people on the lower end of the participation spectrum a chance to see the content, often times I'll run into problems with my gaming group in that we'll be looking to do content, but have 6, 9 or 12 people looking to do something. And if everything is locked into a hard number of 5, 10 or 20, inevitably you either can't do the content (because you have 9 instead of 10) or someone gets left out in the cold (because you have 11 but only 10 can join).

iymala

I would love to see some 8 to 10 man raids implemented. Group size for that isnt too large and keeps it casual, but still adds an additional facet to the game for max level players.

sevargath

umm i dont know..... raid yes but for 5/6 man not more

valdorax

Yes I agree, that's why I voted for 8-10. I prefer the mid range raid content as opposed to 20. I raided for years in WoW and then Rift, and the 20 man got old, too many issues with PEOPLE. lol But the 10 man raids in Rift were amazing. Just perfect. More epic than 5 man, and just the right size. Because as we all know, size DOES really matter.

valdorax

sevargath wrote: »

umm i dont know..... raid yes but for 5/6 man not more

Again, 5-6 man dungeons are not raids. They started using the word "raid" in MMORPGs to differentiate them from "dungeons" which were for 5 people. Some synonyms from the thesaurus are "incursion" or "invasion" and that sure sounds like more than 5 people to me. Also, why not add them? If the loot is attainable by other means and you are not forced to do them, what would anyone's reasoning be to not have at least 10 man content for a more epic feel... especially for the masses who really do enjoy the larger scale content? The answer really is, there is no reason not to add them. It would only succeed in making the game more appealing to certain types of players while leaving the other types alone. Right?

valdorax

And as the poll already shows, most people actually want the 8-10 player content in the game. The devs would do well to heed this as only including 5 man content will most definitely get old, especially for guilds who want to do things TOGETHER instead of always having to split up into small groups. Seem perfectly reasonable to me. I am open to others sharing any reason why this should not be added, especially if as I have reiterated, they keep the loot attainable by other means and not force people to do the larger scale raids. Anyone?

elve

For me 5 people is the perfect size that stimulates the players to play as a team and at the same time doesn't punish everybody because 1 person is not paying attention at a given time.

sevargath

I think could put the mode to 5 and another of 10

kotonne

I say 8-10 if I really had to choose. I don't wanna lag fest, but I do adore raids.

siolenas

The problem with raids is not the time dedication to the game but arranging of people to make it happen. Raiding becomes a guild centric event and not something that community as a whioe can partake it. Wow is a classic example. With servers becoming smaller and getting into a good guild to be able raid, most people find its impossible to do anything other then LFR.

So I would vote no for Raids.

inosaska

Max of 5 because its all about companionship and also it makes it easier to develop content when everything is centered around 5 man parties. Everyone just wants large battles but me I rather have some nice thinking battles instead. If we walk into a room with 5 difficult enemies then its the same as fighting 20 enemies. People are just looking for numbers and maybe to have a little bit of slacking off with that large number but in smaller groups its far more noticeable when someone doesn't pull there weight in a fight. Also it would fit perfectly with how big most DND groups are in real life which is mostly 5 people and 1 dungeon master.

valdorax

I have seen a growing desire in the community for content made for more than 5 people (whether you want to call them raids or not, doesn't matter) especially with the foundry.

ranncore

Big groups are fun. Huge groups are a PITA.

valdorax

Exactly, couldn't have said it better myself. I believe that 8-10 man content is perfect for raids.

noimapizza

Raiding with 10 people will always feel epic to me. I raided in Rift quite a bit, and the 10 man content always held my attention more than the 20 man stuff, mainly because we always had the people online for the 10 man stuff, but almost never 20 people. Make really challenging 10 man raids though, stuff that requires everyone to pull their weight, because who doesn't hate afkers and slackers.

prysian

inosaska wrote: »

Max of 5 because its all about companionship and also it makes it easier to develop content when everything is centered around 5 man parties. Everyone just wants large battles but me I rather have some nice thinking battles instead. If we walk into a room with 5 difficult enemies then its the same as fighting 20 enemies. People are just looking for numbers and maybe to have a little bit of slacking off with that large number but in smaller groups its far more noticeable when someone doesn't pull there weight in a fight. Also it would fit perfectly with how big most DND groups are in real life which is mostly 5 people and 1 dungeon master.

This for the most part. I think it would be nice to have raid-type content (in terms of difficulty) that is 5 players for once. Perhaps have 5 and 10 man versions available? I've never been able to raid much in other games due to my schedule being hard to sync up with others, but it would be easier with 4 other players than 9 other players to work out times.

chaoticwhee

I'd like to see options for all of these. The only reservations I have is the way everyone can use a companion. Having 20 companions running around just seems strange to me. I like the way StarWars did it. You could have a companion out in a group, but only if the group wasn't already filled.

taemekeg

Alot of people seem to forget what MMORPG means.

5 man group content can only be so challenging mathematically due to having only, 5 people. You can only do so much with 5 man content to the point it just gets rehashed and reused in other parts of the game.

10 man heroic raid dungeons will be needed to attract and sustain a constant player base for player progression regardless wether it be for gear or just content itself.

If PW does not implement this, people will grow tired of the 5 man content, real quick.

There is simply no such thing as *5 man raid content*......For the people trying to say that it is about the community and ease of getting 5 people together, how do you know that the 5 man content won't be of the same challenge rating as a heroic 10 man instance? Therefor, the people who find it hard to do 10 man content will still fail at 5 man content.

The game needs this:

5 man normal dungeons
5 man heroic dungeons - 5 man normals completion required for entry

10 man normal dungeons
10 man heroic dungeons - 10 man normals completion required for entry


This way no one is blocked by gear and it is a simple linear progression, so anyone trying to use the argument of falling behind cause of gear, that point is moot as the dungeons push you to have the gear you need to join the guild you want.

This caters to everyone.

rosemelia

raids are very fun, i i haven't done 10-15 raids though i have done quite a few of 20-40 player raids which yeh not for everybody but i think its will be a mistake not having them.

tttsssrrr1

I think raids are needed for several reasons: to pace end game progression, to provide incentive to continue to play developed characters, to add a sense of accomplishment, to give guilds a reason for existence, to give existing guilds a reason to play this game, to allow larger groups of players to play together, to allow for challenging fights with mechanics that wouldn't necessarily be practical for a 5 man group, to create the expectation that the developers would continue to create content for the game and not just the players.

witchzero

I want Astral Diamonds for raid healing. Plus sedatives.

valdorax

I SUPPORT, ENDORSE, AND AGREE WITH ALL THESE COMMENTS CONCERNING RAID DUNGEONS.

LET US HOPE THAT PW HEARS US! CLAMOR, CLAMOR!

lol

grekthoran

8-10 is just perfect. A small step up from normal group content but nothing so difficult that you can't find enough people to run the raid on any given night.

I don't care if you call it a raid or large group, or whatever, 8-10 man content along with the normal 5 man group content is perfect.

mithie3

I have no problems with 5 man. It's easier for queues to pop and easier to get a game together.

That said, if content can be scaled up for 10 man groups, then sure, why not.

valdorax

Exactomundo.

psyb3rtr011

I voted 8-10, because I can see how some people might enjoy the larger group concepts, and how some plotlines mioght need them.

However, please do not make participation in Raids mandatory for the best equipment. Many of us prefer the small 5 player party size that we became accustomed to in Tabletop games, or have real lives, and can at best, limit our time to a couple of hours a week.

macabrivs

psyb3rtr011 wrote: »

However, please do not make participation in Raids mandatory for the best equipment. Many of us prefer the small 5 player party size that we became accustomed to in Tabletop games, or have real lives, and can at best, limit our time to a couple of hours a week.

Exacly, raids are fun but it shouldnt be the only place in the game to get the best gear.