All I see is them talking about consumer feedback and how they adapted to it in CO and STO and how they are taking what they learned and applying it to Neverwinter. How does that equate to them being "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" and "failures?" If anything, I'd hazard to say that would further show them be a success, along with them continuing to make a profit, for being smart enough to recognize what needs to change and adapt to it, while still listening to consumer feedback.
All I see is them talking about consumer feedback and how they adapted to it in CO and STO and how they are taking what they learned and applying it to Neverwinter. How does that equate to them being "<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>" and "failures?" If anything, I'd hazard to say that would further show them be a success, along with them continuing to make a profit, for being smart enough to recognize what needs to change and adapt to it, while still listening to consumer feedback.
Well lets just leave it at you see those games as sucsesses and I see failures that couldn't survive pay to play.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Have love cosmic enlightenment. Well said. Well said, indeed.
Well, thank you for admitting here that the "failure" is your opinion and in such a statement, I cannot disagree with you then.
Problem is more agree with me then you. My entire fleet plus others left STO because it was too repeatative, and you hardly see anyone in champions anymore. But see it as you like.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Actualy not. If everyone blew rainbows up the devs hind ends we would realy have a bad game. It is the nay sayers that keep the devs on their toes.
Oh trust me, as much as I rant and rave my love for this game.. many who know me here know I complain just as much about things I do not like. I just don't discount a whole game because of a my dislikes as long as I see a future for improvement. A search of my post history in all Cryptic's games would show that I complain just as much as I praise. Call me optimistic but rainbows I do not blow up anyone's behind.
What keeps me playing and enjoying Cryptic Games is they continue to listen and adapt to both sides of feedback and not one or the other. Sure, they may be slow at times, but I know things take time and the world we live in is based upon the very essense of learning from mistakes and adapting to it. Afterall, all life on this planet owes its very existence by being able to "learn" from its mistakes and "adapt" or "evolve" to overcome them. I view MMOs and Cryptic no different.
Oh trust me, as much as I rant and rave my love for this game.. many who know me here know I complain just as much about things I do not like. I just don't discount a whole game because of a my dislikes as long as I see a future for improvement. A search of my post history in all Cryptic's games would show that I complain just as much as I praise. Call me optimistic but rainbows I do not blow up anyone's behind.
The problem is every game can improve however you must also look at those who make the game. They are a determining factor as well. Ask NCsoft about Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa they had promise but failed.
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jim1771Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The problem is every game can improve however you must also look at those who make the game. They are a determining factor as well. Ask NCsoft about Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa they had promise but failed.
Tabula Rasa is a very poor example. NCSoft tried to pull it out from Richard while he was quarantined for his space flight, forged his letter of resignation and then when he found out, he sued them and won. The reason NCSoft decided to try and close TR is because they are a Korean Based company and their NA profits could not measure up to profits for their Korean Titles. It was making a profit, just not what they wanted, so they tried to shut it down illegally without Richard's consent. It failed because of this, not because it wasn't a great game. Personally, I loved Tabula Rasa!
But then, we're talking about an entirely different company here. So far, both of Cryptic's maintained titles have continued to bring a profit and while some see them as failures, others do not and the sheer number of players in them should be a good hint that they are not failing. If anything, it should show that they are adapting and continuing to be a success, whether you like the game or not.
Heck, I dislike WoW and Ultima Online greatly.... yet I can hardly say they are failures.
encadiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 67
edited January 2013
This isnt a direct translation of DnD if you are looking that go back to your book and your dices, you shant find it here, The rest of us will enjoy the game for what it is.
ALL your points are meaningless adn without content, who cares if its 40 or 4000? its just a scale of numbers...
Tabula Rasa is a very poor example. NCSoft tried to pull it out from Richard while he was quarantined for his space flight, forged his letter of resignation and then when he found out, he sued them and won. The reason NCSoft decided to try and close TR is because they are a Korean Based company and their NA profits could not measure up to profits for their Korean Titles. It was making a profit, just not what they wanted, so they tried to shut it down illegally without Richard's consent. It failed because of this, not because it wasn't a great game. Personally, I loved Tabula Rasa!
But then, we're talking about an entirely different company here. So far, both of Cryptic's maintained titles have continued to bring a profit and while some see them as failures, others do not and the sheer number of players in them should be a good hint that they are not failing. If anything, it should show that they are adapting and continuing to be a success, whether you like the game or not.
Heck, I dislike WoW and Ultima Online greatly.... yet I can hardly say they are failures.
I dont know how much longer CO will turn a profit. There are a lot of mad players claiming they havent had an actual update in over half a year.
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zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
I dont know how much longer CO will turn a profit. There are a lot of mad players claiming they havent had an actual update in over half a year.
Ah well, time shall tell!
Let's do refrain further from this discussion however as there really is no way either of us, or anyone else, can claim any side of the coin with absolute certainty. As well, we're really starting to detract from the topics of the thread and are getting way off base of Neverwinter Discussions. Thanks!
Victory is claimed as we know Ranger will not be in at launch which means a lot of disapointed players. lol
We've known about this for a while, we just haven't been able to find the quote by a developer that was posted some time ago. They are still working internally on the Ranger and are apparently holding off on releasing it until after game release. Gillrmn, Truth (or Ambi?) and I have been trying to clear this confusion up, but with the wonky search being bugged, none of us can find it and the devs haven't had a chance to find it for us or comment on it, or aren't able to for NDA reasons.
Bottom line, last we knew on these forums, they were still planning on having a Ranger at some point.
Victory is claimed as we know Ranger will not be in at launch which means a lot of disapointed players. lol
The article is ancient in 2010. Hence it is irrelevant. h2oratty confirmed later that ranger was in works and may or maynot make it to launch. We have already known for one+ year that ranger is not confirmed.
Sorry for the delayed response, been busting my tail on a big freelance project that I am working on for Hasbro (And before you ask, no, it's not for Wizards of the Coast, sadly... It's for their young girl's division. Not that I'm not complaining about a job that lets me be creative, even if it's coming up with cutesy commercials for 4 year old girls.)
Not really. They just didn't have the other two legs in. WoW has story, if you care to experience it. PvP is one aspect, but I've seen games (CoH) do really well without it, specifically.
I personally love World of Warcraft's story and always took the time to stop and pay attention to their quests. I love that they got the whole "noble savage" thing going for the Horde instead of making them generic bad guys only worthy of being genocided by virile stud heros.
But those other pillars of gameplay are REALLY important, and they are all interconnected. A great end-game with gripping raids and intense pvp are all tied together with the story to feel like satisfactory conclusions after you're done questing to lvl 90. The whole Alliance vs Horde thing was cool, but what made me run a zillion battlegrounds and raids was that individually speaking, they're fun.
And as I always like to disclaim, just because I'm tooting WoW's flute doesn't mean that I want Neverwinter to be a carbon copy of WoW. I want Neverwinter to take the lessons learned from WoW and interpret them in a way that makes Neverwinter its own thing. For example, the foundry has an astounding potential to be an entirely new pillar of MMO gameplay in and of itself, for the same reason why NWN's multiplayer mode was so successful.
to say, those who think that d20 work in an action environment, I don't know what to say. It doesn't. Even DDO was not responsive to your commands in a real-time environment and was not enjoyable to myself and a number of other NWN players. And if you ever experienced NWN's "round of combat" interaction, you know that this was not a high bar to beat.
DDO has its benefits, but fluidity of interaction isn't one of them. I think it's an excellent game in it's own right, but I don't think that it was successful in the context of LOTRO, SWTOR, and CO (which is failing right now due to lack of support and bug fixes rather than actual game play experience).
Again, that's an old TT player speaking. I can create more immersive combat experiences in TT removing the "round" experience and working from a narrative experience instead. Video games as of this time can't reproduce that properly, and you end up feeling like you're "waiting" for something rather than interacting with it. And I honestly hope it never goes in that direction.
Those are all good points. You have to be true to the medium, and PnP and MMO are two different mediums with different needs and expectations. And your phrase "fluidity of interaction" is a perfect way of describing something that's really important in MMOs: accessibility. People need to be able to just pick up the game and jump right in, and flow is a key element of that.
That's something Blizzard always did well. You can pick up Starcraft II for the first time and immediately get a feel for it and enjoy it, while at the same time providing enough depth to fund hardcore competitive tournaments (did you know that professional Korean SC2 players average three actions a second?! That's insane!)
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
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jim1771Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
The article is ancient in 2010. Hence it is irrelevant. h2oratty confirmed later that ranger was in works and may or maynot make it to launch. We have already known for one+ year that ranger is not confirmed.
I have to agree fully to number 7. One reason why I love DnD and NWN 1 and 2 were the customization. And I'm not talking about just vanity or flavor, but actually how you play your character. It is one of the more effective factors in making a game replayable.
By adding class customization (with hybridization and multiclassing; even 4e's version of multiclassing) will allow a player to indirectly design his/her gameplay. One reason why I left WoW is because every expansion felt like the DEVELOPER was telling YOU how to play your character. This, I do not want!
Another concern I have is the Foundry's limitations. I don't know if it's possible to do things such as building a Tower-themed dungeon. I haven't seen any videos or screenshots showing the capability of a vertical level design.
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jim1771Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Thank You for proving my point. NPC = non-player character meaning their is no actual proof ranger is in the works unless devs actualy state it.
/facepalm....
I have no more to say. Just search for posts from h2oratty user yourself.
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voqarMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited January 2013
- F2P sucks. Bad. Worst idea ever. Can't wait for it to go away. B2P is 500% better. Make players pay something so they're a little invested and the company gets some sure money. Then there can be less emphasis on cash shop and the cash shop can remain fluffy and unobtrusive. GW2 and now TSW have it right. F2P is garbage.
- Seeing these exhorbitantly priced founder pak options kind of makes me want to vomit. How is that F2P or anything like it? Interesting concept. $500+ worth of junk is a $199 value...err...what? I laughed a little. I will definitely throw money at a game I like but there's no way I'm throwing down 200 or 60 on a game I haven't even played yet, especially when you consider:
- D&D is about group-based PvE. Period. Going back to the pnp roots and including the best cRPG versions.
- PvP has no business being in a D&D game. D&D has never been about PvP. Extremely stupid idea that'll waste dev/design time that could be focused on group-based PvE. If you really want to PvP in an MMORPG play any one of the other MMOs that already have pointless, meaningless, slapped on PvP minigames that suck and distort balance for the rest of the 95+% of the game.
- D&D is also not about soloing. If you want to solo, play any of the billion single player games out there. Some solo should be there since nobody could ever group 100% of the time, but the emphasis SHOULD be on group-based PvE at all points of the game.
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
- F2P sucks. Bad. Worst idea ever. Can't wait for it to go away. B2P is 500% better. Make players pay something so they're a little invested and the company gets some sure money. Then there can be less emphasis on cash shop and the cash shop can remain fluffy and unobtrusive. GW2 and now TSW have it right. F2P is garbage.
- Seeing these exhorbitantly priced founder pak options kind of makes me want to vomit. How is that F2P or anything like it? Interesting concept. $500+ worth of junk is a $199 value...err...what? I laughed a little. I will definitely throw money at a game I like but there's no way I'm throwing down 200 or 60 on a game I haven't even played yet, especially when you consider:
- D&D is about group-based PvE. Period. Going back to the pnp roots and including the best cRPG versions.
- PvP has no business being in a D&D game. D&D has never been about PvP. Extremely stupid idea that'll waste dev/design time that could be focused on group-based PvE. If you really want to PvP in an MMORPG play any one of the other MMOs that already have pointless, meaningless, slapped on PvP minigames that suck and distort balance for the rest of the 95+% of the game.
- D&D is also not about soloing. If you want to solo, play any of the billion single player games out there. Some solo should be there since nobody could ever group 100% of the time, but the emphasis SHOULD be on group-based PvE at all points of the game.
Oh Please. Guild Wars 2 is a very bad game! I never want to play GW2 again. Well I played WOW for 3.5 years and paid true. However we can be happy that we not MUST pay for Neverwinter. Neverwinter >>> Guild Wars 2. WOW is good, but I want to try something else and Neverwinter is the game I want to play at least this year 2013!
- D&D is also not about soloing. If you want to solo, play any of the billion single player games out there. Some solo should be there since nobody could ever group 100% of the time, but the emphasis SHOULD be on group-based PvE at all points of the game.
Pretty narrow minded view of things. That last statement made me laugh though considering every game that tried that has about 10 players left. EQ, EQ2, Vanguard all tried that forced grouping to play and never could maintain large player bases. All of them have moved to a more solo friendly game play option.
Pretty narrow minded view of things. That last statement made me laugh though considering every game that tried that has about 10 players left. EQ, EQ2, Vanguard all tried that forced grouping to play and never could maintain large player bases. All of them have moved to a more solo friendly game play option.
I think that the options should be available for both. I prefer grouping whenever able because I think that's the point of an MMO. EQ2 was soloable most of the way through and EQ has become soloable, but I still preferred grouping in both. Vanguard didn't get off the ground mostly due to its lack of polish. That said I don't think grouping should be forced, but it should be highly encouraged and supported. There are plenty of other games that people can play totally solo in. (For example, Matt Firor announced that the entire main quest of TESO is solo.)
Comments
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
the game will be good to those who like it. It will be bad to those who don't.
Well lets just leave it at you see those games as sucsesses and I see failures that couldn't survive pay to play.
Well, thank you for admitting here that the "failure" is your opinion and in such a statement, I cannot disagree with you then.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Actualy not. If everyone blew rainbows up the devs hind ends we would realy have a bad game. It is the nay sayers that keep the devs on their toes.
What keeps me playing and enjoying Cryptic Games is they continue to listen and adapt to both sides of feedback and not one or the other. Sure, they may be slow at times, but I know things take time and the world we live in is based upon the very essense of learning from mistakes and adapting to it. Afterall, all life on this planet owes its very existence by being able to "learn" from its mistakes and "adapt" or "evolve" to overcome them. I view MMOs and Cryptic no different.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
The problem is every game can improve however you must also look at those who make the game. They are a determining factor as well. Ask NCsoft about Auto Assault and Tabula Rasa they had promise but failed.
But then, we're talking about an entirely different company here. So far, both of Cryptic's maintained titles have continued to bring a profit and while some see them as failures, others do not and the sheer number of players in them should be a good hint that they are not failing. If anything, it should show that they are adapting and continuing to be a success, whether you like the game or not.
Heck, I dislike WoW and Ultima Online greatly.... yet I can hardly say they are failures.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
ALL your points are meaningless adn without content, who cares if its 40 or 4000? its just a scale of numbers...
Everyone but the devs, right?
{couldn't resist - is the joke of 2 dev team still doing rounds?}
Let's do refrain further from this discussion however as there really is no way either of us, or anyone else, can claim any side of the coin with absolute certainty. As well, we're really starting to detract from the topics of the thread and are getting way off base of Neverwinter Discussions. Thanks!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Jack Emmert: Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Ranger, Rogue.
http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/interviews/56890/Neverwinter-Interview-with-Jack-Emmert
Victory is claimed as we know Ranger will not be in at launch which means a lot of disapointed players. lol
Bottom line, last we knew on these forums, they were still planning on having a Ranger at some point.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
The article is ancient in 2010. Hence it is irrelevant. h2oratty confirmed later that ranger was in works and may or maynot make it to launch. We have already known for one+ year that ranger is not confirmed.
I personally love World of Warcraft's story and always took the time to stop and pay attention to their quests. I love that they got the whole "noble savage" thing going for the Horde instead of making them generic bad guys only worthy of being genocided by virile stud heros.
But those other pillars of gameplay are REALLY important, and they are all interconnected. A great end-game with gripping raids and intense pvp are all tied together with the story to feel like satisfactory conclusions after you're done questing to lvl 90. The whole Alliance vs Horde thing was cool, but what made me run a zillion battlegrounds and raids was that individually speaking, they're fun.
And as I always like to disclaim, just because I'm tooting WoW's flute doesn't mean that I want Neverwinter to be a carbon copy of WoW. I want Neverwinter to take the lessons learned from WoW and interpret them in a way that makes Neverwinter its own thing. For example, the foundry has an astounding potential to be an entirely new pillar of MMO gameplay in and of itself, for the same reason why NWN's multiplayer mode was so successful.
Those are all good points. You have to be true to the medium, and PnP and MMO are two different mediums with different needs and expectations. And your phrase "fluidity of interaction" is a perfect way of describing something that's really important in MMOs: accessibility. People need to be able to just pick up the game and jump right in, and flow is a key element of that.
That's something Blizzard always did well. You can pick up Starcraft II for the first time and immediately get a feel for it and enjoy it, while at the same time providing enough depth to fund hardcore competitive tournaments (did you know that professional Korean SC2 players average three actions a second?! That's insane!)
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?24611-Possible-hints-at-Archer-class-in-the-latest-video-of-Greatweapon-Fighter
Your talking about that. The shadow of the archerer means nothing it could have been an npc arfter all I didnt see any arrows fired in the video.
Half knowledge is harmful.
Above is hearsay which happened to you. Search for quote yourself.
He said, ranger is in the works but that figure is NPC ranger named dusty which accompanies the players.
I will hence say gain, Half knowledge is harmful.
By adding class customization (with hybridization and multiclassing; even 4e's version of multiclassing) will allow a player to indirectly design his/her gameplay. One reason why I left WoW is because every expansion felt like the DEVELOPER was telling YOU how to play your character. This, I do not want!
Another concern I have is the Foundry's limitations. I don't know if it's possible to do things such as building a Tower-themed dungeon. I haven't seen any videos or screenshots showing the capability of a vertical level design.
Thank You for proving my point. NPC = non-player character meaning their is no actual proof ranger is in the works unless devs actualy state it.
I have no more to say. Just search for posts from h2oratty user yourself.
- Seeing these exhorbitantly priced founder pak options kind of makes me want to vomit. How is that F2P or anything like it? Interesting concept. $500+ worth of junk is a $199 value...err...what? I laughed a little. I will definitely throw money at a game I like but there's no way I'm throwing down 200 or 60 on a game I haven't even played yet, especially when you consider:
- D&D is about group-based PvE. Period. Going back to the pnp roots and including the best cRPG versions.
- PvP has no business being in a D&D game. D&D has never been about PvP. Extremely stupid idea that'll waste dev/design time that could be focused on group-based PvE. If you really want to PvP in an MMORPG play any one of the other MMOs that already have pointless, meaningless, slapped on PvP minigames that suck and distort balance for the rest of the 95+% of the game.
- D&D is also not about soloing. If you want to solo, play any of the billion single player games out there. Some solo should be there since nobody could ever group 100% of the time, but the emphasis SHOULD be on group-based PvE at all points of the game.
Pretty narrow minded view of things. That last statement made me laugh though considering every game that tried that has about 10 players left. EQ, EQ2, Vanguard all tried that forced grouping to play and never could maintain large player bases. All of them have moved to a more solo friendly game play option.
I think that the options should be available for both. I prefer grouping whenever able because I think that's the point of an MMO. EQ2 was soloable most of the way through and EQ has become soloable, but I still preferred grouping in both. Vanguard didn't get off the ground mostly due to its lack of polish. That said I don't think grouping should be forced, but it should be highly encouraged and supported. There are plenty of other games that people can play totally solo in. (For example, Matt Firor announced that the entire main quest of TESO is solo.)