- F2P sucks. Bad. Worst idea ever. Can't wait for it to go away. B2P is 500% better. Make players pay something so they're a little invested and the company gets some sure money. Then there can be less emphasis on cash shop and the cash shop can remain fluffy and unobtrusive. GW2 and now TSW have it right. F2P is garbage.
I certainly agree with you about the traditional F2P model where they're always throwing sales in your face or making you go bug people on Facebook. But I've seen F2P games that don't throw that kind of stuff at you. I played that Tiberium Sun browser game and that was very unobtrusive. The other one I played like that was Thirst of Night, the sales stuff was there, but you didn't feel like they were making you buy it.
As far as B2P being better, well, if the developers nail it and they make a F2P game that is completely tolerable, I'll be happy that I didn't have to put 60 bucks on it.
- Seeing these exhorbitantly priced founder pak options kind of makes me want to vomit. How is that F2P or anything like it? Interesting concept. $500+ worth of junk is a $199 value...err...what? I laughed a little. I will definitely throw money at a game I like but there's no way I'm throwing down 200 or 60 on a game I haven't even played yet, especially when you consider:
Agreed. There's no way I'd drop 200 dollars on a game that I haven't played yet. I could buy an Xbox360 for that kind of money.
PvP has no business being in a D&D game. D&D has never been about PvP. Extremely stupid idea that'll waste dev/design time that could be focused on group-based PvE. If you really want to PvP in an MMORPG play any one of the other MMOs that already have pointless, meaningless, slapped on PvP minigames that suck and distort balance for the rest of the 95+% of the game.
I have to disagree with you, there. PvP is one of those things that keeps people logging back into the game. I personally love PvP and MMOs that don't have it always feel like they're missing something. The idea here is that the more people playing the game (and solid PvP is a very high draw; poor PvP was a very loud complaint about SW:TOR), the more people buying junk in the store, the more advertising revenue, the more moolah for developers to give us nice things.
- D&D is also not about soloing. If you want to solo, play any of the billion single player games out there. Some solo should be there since nobody could ever group 100% of the time, but the emphasis SHOULD be on group-based PvE at all points of the game.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with you, provided they make finding groups is easy as cake (which, considering they're implementing a LFG system, means that they're probably doing just that).
The stories and information posted here are artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact.
I'm the kinda guy who WILL spend 3 hours rerolling my guy and if all there is in character creation is a bunch of templates like in diablo It'll ruin half the fun.
I've often, not always but often, found players like that to be a turn off. I've been playing since 1978 - my groups over the years usually institute a rule, typically three out of five.
Expecting an MMO to have the flexibility of a completely passive DM is not a good idea.
Pretty narrow minded view of things. That last statement made me laugh though considering every game that tried that has about 10 players left. EQ, EQ2, Vanguard all tried that forced grouping to play and never could maintain large player bases. All of them have moved to a more solo friendly game play option.
EQ was by far the king of this hill until it finally got beaten by a game whose highest-level content used to require 40 players, and is still dominated by 10+ player content. Solo players stick around for 3 to 6 months and move on; what keeps people in the same game for years is community.
Ultima Online still makes a profit. So does EQ.
0
jim1771Member, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
I totally agree to the OP.
All the people stating that the game had to be adapted so it could be a mmo are totally biased at a point that i assume they only are fanboys.
So, guys, you take a full d&d ruleset, think about an adaptation for a mmo, and the result is worst than a wow like? and everybody agrees? poor people.
So there weren't any other way to make the game more d&d player friendly? It had to be casual or console gamer oriented? It had to be a wow like?
but the sad truth is that the game will be a fail.
the d&d lovers are not going to play that game, and for the theme park lovers, teso is coming, , wow is still there and more polished than ever, guild wars doesn't have a "founder pack", and, moreover, archeage is coming and project eternity is on the way.
The people here that are saying that this game is fine won't play anymore in 6 month, hopefully they will have bought the founder pack!
You could have had millions of people, fans of all the bg and nwn serie, ready to buy any pack and extentions, if you had tryied to make a real d&d.
well, at last you are used to fail, aren't you?
Agreed on the action combat/high latency issue. Unless there are Oceanic servers, this game will be a no-go zone for NZ/Aus.
THIS IS CLERIC AGGRO IN BW3
0
lordshadowruneMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 5Arc User
edited February 2013
I honestly wish this game wasn't called Dungeons and Dragons Neverwinter. Why not Forgotten Realms Neverwinter? Neverwinter Online? Or just plain Neverwinter? Dropping the Dungeons & Dragon part of the name would remove the notion that this will be some sort of online pen and paper game a few people in this thread clearly want.
I totally agree to the OP.
All the people stating that the game had to be adapted so it could be a mmo are totally biased at a point that i assume they only are fanboys.
Wow just wow. So anyone who disagrees with you is biased and a fanboy? Are you serious? It is called an opinion, in my opinion Cryptic did a metric fton of things wrong in this game and their are some serious problems that really needed a great deal more development time. However there is NO way that you can translate TT D&D truly straight into a video game. Tabletop play has to many nuances that a computer can not handle. A straight computer game can not account for unexpected actions by players and MMO (which needs balancing above and beyond a single player game and TT game where there is a DM to reign stupid things in) is next to impossible.
Constantly stating your OPINION as fact, yeah that is fail.
oh and you know what they say about assuming things....
man, there were millions of ways to make this game more d&d player friendly. Making it an action rpg console oriented for the casual gamers / manga generation is only a commercial choice. Cryptic and PW weren't "obliged" at all to make this game look like a bad wow....
Its not tabletop this in an Action Combat MMORPG! Get over it.
i surely will get over it at a point that i will play another game and never spend a dollar on this one, and so will a LOT of people that were waiting for something closer to the d&d / neverwinter night spirit than this joke, to stay polite.
let's talk again at the end of the year just to see if you still play this game, you and all the fanboys here.
I've seen it with dark and light, aoc, warhammer online, earthrise, fallen earth, aion, terra, the secret world, swtor, etc. :
the guys that occupy the forum to say how awesome is the game and how stupid are the haters, strangely don't play anymore 6 month after release.
anyway, not the first mmo fail and not the first great licence bashed
next!
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l1zardo1Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited February 2013
#7 always worries me
So many titles and so many hours of builds and theory-crafting. It's like over 50% of why I play a game.
..and ya dude was way off about DDO. Its the closest thing to PnP MMO you can get. It had the most reactive, immersive combat system I think I have ever played.
Atari are fools though, maybe Turbine too lol. Either way it was ruined quickly.
I would have loved to see more elements incorporated from DDO. (the good ones that play well in MMO environment)
It just is not doable on a multi-player level of this magnitude to do so with the rules meant for a group ONLY EVER of 4-6 except under rare circumstances
You keep making this excuse for Cryptic. You must not be a programmer. WotC designed 4e with computer implementation in mind. EVEN converting it into an action-oriented combat system would not be very difficult. And yes, I've played D&D since the "Red Box," all editions, and been a DM (currently for 4e) for all editions. I've also been a software developer for 35 years (a system architect for 10). 4e mechanics couldn't be much more ripe for the computer.
It sounds to me like you want to play 4E... so you should go play 4E....
Table top and MMO will never be the same. They shouldn't be the same. They are different experiences on different platforms and therefore designed differently. Neverwinter is an MMO which takes place in the FR universe which draws inspiration from 4E. It is not an attempt to recreate 4E on a computer.
By the way this is written I can only guess that "wow" is referring to World of Warcraft and not the word wow. If it wasn't please disregard the following statement.
I love how people keep comparing this to WoW. It is nothing like WoW.
By the way this is written I can only guess that "wow" is referring to World of Warcraft and not the word wow. If it wasn't please disregard the following statement.
I love how people keep comparing this to WoW. It is nothing like WoW.
fully instancied
60 levels = wow vanilla
high damages
3 templates trees
class inspired by wow : dps tank healer / war charge /combo points for rogue / etc.
arena pvp
tiers sets and possibly special sets for pvp in the future
etc.
the aimed public is the wow like players my friend, sorry if i destroyed you illusions...
fully instancied
60 levels = wow vanilla
high damages
3 templates trees
class inspired by wow : dps tank healer / war charge /combo points for rogue / etc.
arena pvp
tiers sets and possibly special sets for pvp in the future
etc.
the aimed public is the wow like players my friend, sorry if i destroyed you illusions...
You haven't destroyed my illusions. Play the game. It is nothing like WoW. This is like saying a Harley is like a Tractor-Trailer Truck.
They both have tires.
They both have breaks.
They both have an engine.
They both have a seat.
They both run on gas.
They both have headlights.
They both have a horn.
Lets ignore the biggest part, the game play is nothing alike.
You haven't destroyed my illusions. Play the game. It is nothing like WoW. This is like saying a Harley is like a Tractor-Trailer Truck.
They both have tires.
They both have breaks.
They both have an engine.
They both have a seat.
They both run on gas.
They both have headlights.
They both have a horn.
Lets ignore the biggest part, the game play is nothing alike.
gameplay between an arcade game and wow... and still tastes like a bad wow.
and you forget that important detail i stated : bad.
I said a bad wow.
If it was at least a good wow like i would not complain that much, unfortunately it is not the case.
well I'm not going to waste my time here.
I assume you love that game at a point that you are going to buy the founder pack? and you'll still play and buy extentions in one year?
naaaaa
I bet i'll see you on teso and probably archeage in a few month
While I think we all would have preferred FR's big debut to the big PC Screen to be more authentic and indepth still asking for hardcore DND for this game is beating the dead horse at this point in time. We've got more then enough gameplay vids to show that its wysiwyg now.
2. Level cap 60
See answer on #1.
3. Reworked skills not actually D&D rules any more.
See answer on #1.
4. Action combat but no talk about why this won't be bad for high pings.
I'm not too worried about combat lagging is as much as latency generated from everyone and his brother having a pet. Hell Rangers may have a Pet and a Companion, so if thats the case and you roll in with 1 Tank, 1 Healer and 3 Rangers you got potentially 13 Teams Members on your 5 man dungeon. If anyone played WoW back 04-05 range when they had those 40man raids that is an example of too many cooks in the kitchen.
5. Not Dark enough.
I personally like Darker themed games more myself but doesn't mean I can't enjoy one that is not. For example look at FFXI and FFXIV.. Not really dark at all and I had some fun there. I think TESO is going to be taking
6. Active Blocking is not in D&D.
See answer on #1.
Also I do like the idea of active blocking. It gives the tank more of a sense he is tanking. Tank can just go afk for a sandwich while he autoblocks a Frost Giant.
7. Classes seem like templates.
I want my plain Fighter to be a guardian fighter because of the moves I pick; not the class. I'm the kinda guy who WILL spend 3 hours rerolling my guy and if all there is in character creation is a bunch of templates like in diablo It'll ruin half the fun. While I didn't enjoy NWN2 at all I did have a blast making hybrid classes up with their huge selection. We want control and depth. LET US ROLL GIMPED CHARACTERS. Making it more instantly accessible will only LOWER the satisfaction players get from learning then doing it right and knowing their hero is actually most likely above average for the class because of their input. That personalization forms a much stronger bond to your character. It's not preference like face or hair. You're actually superior and that's fun.
I was on the fence for a while on this issue. The more I thought about it the more I realized that they are still giving you Trees to work with. If you give someone too many options they will go Cookie Cutter crazy on the community. If we could choose a weapon and talents to specialize that weapon then it can get really really messy. Example a Talent for 1h Maces to stun on chance.. <Random Guardian enters dungeon with party, Cleric says, "Hey you have a dagger? Where is your Mace?", Guardian responds, "I'm a Halfing and I like daggers."> (Party Votes to kick Guardian)
gameplay between an arcade game and wow... and still tastes like a bad wow.
and you forget that important detail i stated : bad.
I said a bad wow.
If it was at least a good wow like i would not complain that much, unfortunately it is not the case.
well I'm not going to waste my time here.
I assume you love that game at a point that you are going to buy the founder pack? and you'll still play and buy extentions in one year?
naaaaa
I bet i'll see you on teso and probably archeage in a few month
Already bought a founders pack, HotN and played last weekend all weekend and don't regret doing it in any way. I haven't even been able to play with the Foundry which is one of the biggest draws for me. Are there problems with the game? Hell yes. Are they game breaking problems for me? Hell no. I mean the lack of classes alone is an issue for me, but that doesn't change anything I said. I played WoW for years and think it is a great game, but I am tired of it now and don't play anymore. I had as much if not more fun playing this game than I did in my first weekend of WoW. I am sorry that you think it is a bad WoW clone, but to me it isn't anything like WoW.
As for TESO I seriously doubt I will be playing it in a few months. As for Archeage I seriously doubt I will ever play it, look like HAMSTER to me.
fully instancied
60 levels = wow vanilla
high damages
3 templates trees
class inspired by wow : dps tank healer / war charge /combo points for rogue / etc.
arena pvp
tiers sets and possibly special sets for pvp in the future
etc.
the aimed public is the wow like players my friend, sorry if i destroyed you illusions...
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't DnD online have around 60 levels if you count the ranks within the levels?
Vanilla WoW's damage was not high. High compared to PnP DnD? Sure, but what doesn't look high in comparison? Numbers are going to look bigger because, believe it or not the damage numbers don't mean much...at all. What matters is the damage vs health pools. Doing 1,000 damage vs something with 5,000 HP will feel the exact same as 1 damage vs something with 5 HP, except one is visually more appealing. Considering VIDEO games is largely a visual experience, guess which is the logical choice?
Templates, I semi-agree on, but I'd rather have it than no customization.
Classes are inspired from DnD, if you're meaning to say something more so about the holy trinity of tank/dps/healer then you just shouldn't be playing this game. Realize it's an MMO. It need's structures and systems or else it can't be balanced.
PVP is required, I repeat REQUIRED for an MMO to do well in this time, because sooner or later the PVE content will become stale, yes even with foundry though it does add a lot of longevity and "Shakes things up" on the PVE side of things. The game is also action combat which lends itself to more skillful play in PVE but puts a hell of a lot more skill into something like PVP. The combat system itself lends itself to PVP.
Tier sets..It's a HAMSTER MMO. Not pen and paper online. The game requires progression in all things, gear included. Oh and WoW wasn't fully instanced..ever.
The game is aimed to bring the DnD universe to MMO format. Welcome to MMOs. Pen and paper is
> That way
0
xervaiMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero UsersPosts: 0Arc User
gameplay between an arcade game and wow... and still tastes like a bad wow.
and you forget that important detail i stated : bad.
I said a bad wow.
If it was at least a good wow like i would not complain that much, unfortunately it is not the case.
well I'm not going to waste my time here.
I assume you love that game at a point that you are going to buy the founder pack? and you'll still play and buy extentions in one year?
naaaaa
I bet i'll see you on teso and probably archeage in a few month
You clearly don't like the game and are sitting around trying to push your opinion on others and they're trying to push it back. If you have dismissed the game and don't like it, then don't let the door hit you on the way out.
As for the OP, I don't agree with any point made. None of these are concerns that make any sense to me or these "Countless millions of people crying out for the one true DnD game that they'll throw billions at". You clearly don't understand game design, market needs, or the business behind video games. Most people's "perfect" game is another's trash bin nightmare.
So far reading the forums the REAL concerns are:
1) The foundry might be too limiting not allowing for end game content to be created.
2) The foundry might not allow for proper loot options that cause exploits or be completely lootless (All though Astral Diamonds is a good compromise if it is lootless)
3) The Paragon/build choices might be really limited or imbalanced
4) End game might be completely missing
5) Story Quests might not use the same creativity that early Foundry quests have already shown
6) Astral Diamond item prices were extremely inflated and did not seem to mesh with the value of the packs shown
7) Will crafting be meaningful or enjoyable?
If you read enough posts you'll find these are the constant items cropping up. Your worries seem to be another DnD PnP snob trying to push their vision of their perfect game.
I'm not afraid to say it: DnD is NOT the best system to translate into a video game. The engine/design choices are the DM and there is no negotiating with them. Many of the nice aspects of DnD are completely mundane and annoying in a video game setting. Everyone has a different expectation of details and what is fun for them.
Can you make a DnD game that requires it to be a commercial success and enjoyed by non-DnD players? I love DnD and I wish there were more systems from there in this game, but they don't translate into "widespread" fun for many people that don't enjoy that sort of thing.
yes you are right, i don't like the game
no you are wrong, the game could and should have been done in another way to be more d&d players friendly, it is all a matter of development and a deliberate choice to aim young casual gamers from the xbox and manga generation.
It has nothing to see with d&d exept for the label and clearly use the d&d and neverwinter name to attract lost roleplayers.
my bet is that it will be a fail, and you and all the others that are trying hard to force people to think that this game could not be developped in another way will probably leave it a few month after its release for something more original and immersive, as it happened before to all the games i mentionned before.
It is still a pleasure sometimes to find one and remind him of the passion he had back in the days, for the awesome aoc, or the awesome swtor, etc.
anyway, when the wise man points something with its finger...
yes you are right, i don't like the game
no you are wrong, the game could and should have been done in another way to be more d&d players friendly, it is all a matter of development and a deliberate choice to aim young casual gamers from the xbox and manga generation.
It has nothing to see with d&d exept for the label and clearly use the d&d and neverwinter name to attract lost roleplayers.
my bet is that it will be a fail, and you and all the others that are trying hard to force people to think that this game could not be developped in another way will probably leave it a few month after its release for something more original and immersive, as it happened before to all the games i mentionned before.
It is still a pleasure sometimes to find one and remind him of the passion he had back in the days, for the awesome aoc, or the awesome swtor, etc.
anyway, when the wise man points something with its finger...
is incomparable to the sorrow of the wise man who becomes ignorant.
0
wyliegreenwichMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
fully instancied
60 levels = wow vanilla
high damages
3 templates trees
class inspired by wow : dps tank healer / war charge /combo points for rogue / etc.
arena pvp
tiers sets and possibly special sets for pvp in the future
etc.
the aimed public is the wow like players my friend, sorry if i destroyed you illusions...
I find this amusing.
All of the above can originally be found in AD&D PnP, Final Fantasy, an Ultima Online.
After watching the beta feeds I can say I fall outside the target audience...but I will try it anyway. I gave SWTOR a go and still play it today (And like LotRo and DDO they are still releasing new content)
For all those in the thread arguing about lore and its importance....there ARE NO EVIL DEITIES in this version of Forgotten Realms.
To me, that's Cryptic tossing lore right out the window...and nobody's said much about that now, have they? What happened to the cause for the Spellplague? What caused the world's upheaval in THIS realm? Because without Bane, Cyric and the rest of the evil gods....it sure isn't Forgotten Realms.
Comments
I certainly agree with you about the traditional F2P model where they're always throwing sales in your face or making you go bug people on Facebook. But I've seen F2P games that don't throw that kind of stuff at you. I played that Tiberium Sun browser game and that was very unobtrusive. The other one I played like that was Thirst of Night, the sales stuff was there, but you didn't feel like they were making you buy it.
As far as B2P being better, well, if the developers nail it and they make a F2P game that is completely tolerable, I'll be happy that I didn't have to put 60 bucks on it.
Agreed. There's no way I'd drop 200 dollars on a game that I haven't played yet. I could buy an Xbox360 for that kind of money.
I agree with you completely that the emphasis should be on 5-man teams.
I have to disagree with you, there. PvP is one of those things that keeps people logging back into the game. I personally love PvP and MMOs that don't have it always feel like they're missing something. The idea here is that the more people playing the game (and solid PvP is a very high draw; poor PvP was a very loud complaint about SW:TOR), the more people buying junk in the store, the more advertising revenue, the more moolah for developers to give us nice things.
The more I think about it, the more I agree with you, provided they make finding groups is easy as cake (which, considering they're implementing a LFG system, means that they're probably doing just that).
Expecting an MMO to have the flexibility of a completely passive DM is not a good idea.
EQ was by far the king of this hill until it finally got beaten by a game whose highest-level content used to require 40 players, and is still dominated by 10+ player content. Solo players stick around for 3 to 6 months and move on; what keeps people in the same game for years is community.
Ultima Online still makes a profit. So does EQ.
They have been doing good with their kickstarters.
If you read it, then its all good. A few things you don't know let me tell you then to fill up the gaps.
h2oratty is the new name of h2orat.
h2orat is a cryptic developer - who also worked in CO team.
h2orat lost his old forum name due to something called merge which only us old forum users know of which happened last year.
The merge happened due to PWE forums merging cryptic's forums.
Old cryptic names cannot be used anymore on forums.
Old cryptic names are still used in @handles in the games.
Ranger is in the works which means it is being developed.
Clerics of Selune do not spread hearsay (those who do are hunted down and killed)
Only h2orat has commented about that figure - only him.
If you do not believe him, you should not believe that dusty in the figure is
All the people stating that the game had to be adapted so it could be a mmo are totally biased at a point that i assume they only are fanboys.
So, guys, you take a full d&d ruleset, think about an adaptation for a mmo, and the result is worst than a wow like? and everybody agrees? poor people.
So there weren't any other way to make the game more d&d player friendly? It had to be casual or console gamer oriented? It had to be a wow like?
but the sad truth is that the game will be a fail.
the d&d lovers are not going to play that game, and for the theme park lovers, teso is coming, , wow is still there and more polished than ever, guild wars doesn't have a "founder pack", and, moreover, archeage is coming and project eternity is on the way.
The people here that are saying that this game is fine won't play anymore in 6 month, hopefully they will have bought the founder pack!
You could have had millions of people, fans of all the bg and nwn serie, ready to buy any pack and extentions, if you had tryied to make a real d&d.
well, at last you are used to fail, aren't you?
Wow just wow. So anyone who disagrees with you is biased and a fanboy? Are you serious? It is called an opinion, in my opinion Cryptic did a metric fton of things wrong in this game and their are some serious problems that really needed a great deal more development time. However there is NO way that you can translate TT D&D truly straight into a video game. Tabletop play has to many nuances that a computer can not handle. A straight computer game can not account for unexpected actions by players and MMO (which needs balancing above and beyond a single player game and TT game where there is a DM to reign stupid things in) is next to impossible.
Constantly stating your OPINION as fact, yeah that is fail.
oh and you know what they say about assuming things....
man, there were millions of ways to make this game more d&d player friendly. Making it an action rpg console oriented for the casual gamers / manga generation is only a commercial choice. Cryptic and PW weren't "obliged" at all to make this game look like a bad wow....
i surely will get over it at a point that i will play another game and never spend a dollar on this one, and so will a LOT of people that were waiting for something closer to the d&d / neverwinter night spirit than this joke, to stay polite.
let's talk again at the end of the year just to see if you still play this game, you and all the fanboys here.
I've seen it with dark and light, aoc, warhammer online, earthrise, fallen earth, aion, terra, the secret world, swtor, etc. :
the guys that occupy the forum to say how awesome is the game and how stupid are the haters, strangely don't play anymore 6 month after release.
anyway, not the first mmo fail and not the first great licence bashed
next!
So many titles and so many hours of builds and theory-crafting. It's like over 50% of why I play a game.
..and ya dude was way off about DDO. Its the closest thing to PnP MMO you can get. It had the most reactive, immersive combat system I think I have ever played.
Atari are fools though, maybe Turbine too lol. Either way it was ruined quickly.
I would have loved to see more elements incorporated from DDO. (the good ones that play well in MMO environment)
You keep making this excuse for Cryptic. You must not be a programmer. WotC designed 4e with computer implementation in mind. EVEN converting it into an action-oriented combat system would not be very difficult. And yes, I've played D&D since the "Red Box," all editions, and been a DM (currently for 4e) for all editions. I've also been a software developer for 35 years (a system architect for 10). 4e mechanics couldn't be much more ripe for the computer.
WotC talks about design of 4e
Encounter Matrix | Advanced Foundry Topics
Table top and MMO will never be the same. They shouldn't be the same. They are different experiences on different platforms and therefore designed differently. Neverwinter is an MMO which takes place in the FR universe which draws inspiration from 4E. It is not an attempt to recreate 4E on a computer.
I love how people keep comparing this to WoW. It is nothing like WoW.
fully instancied
60 levels = wow vanilla
high damages
3 templates trees
class inspired by wow : dps tank healer / war charge /combo points for rogue / etc.
arena pvp
tiers sets and possibly special sets for pvp in the future
etc.
the aimed public is the wow like players my friend, sorry if i destroyed you illusions...
You haven't destroyed my illusions. Play the game. It is nothing like WoW. This is like saying a Harley is like a Tractor-Trailer Truck.
They both have tires.
They both have breaks.
They both have an engine.
They both have a seat.
They both run on gas.
They both have headlights.
They both have a horn.
Lets ignore the biggest part, the game play is nothing alike.
gameplay between an arcade game and wow... and still tastes like a bad wow.
and you forget that important detail i stated : bad.
I said a bad wow.
If it was at least a good wow like i would not complain that much, unfortunately it is not the case.
well I'm not going to waste my time here.
I assume you love that game at a point that you are going to buy the founder pack? and you'll still play and buy extentions in one year?
naaaaa
I bet i'll see you on teso and probably archeage in a few month
And are really happy with THIS implementation of it.
While I think we all would have preferred FR's big debut to the big PC Screen to be more authentic and indepth still asking for hardcore DND for this game is beating the dead horse at this point in time. We've got more then enough gameplay vids to show that its wysiwyg now.
2. Level cap 60
See answer on #1.
3. Reworked skills not actually D&D rules any more.
See answer on #1.
4. Action combat but no talk about why this won't be bad for high pings.
I'm not too worried about combat lagging is as much as latency generated from everyone and his brother having a pet. Hell Rangers may have a Pet and a Companion, so if thats the case and you roll in with 1 Tank, 1 Healer and 3 Rangers you got potentially 13 Teams Members on your 5 man dungeon. If anyone played WoW back 04-05 range when they had those 40man raids that is an example of too many cooks in the kitchen.
5. Not Dark enough.
I personally like Darker themed games more myself but doesn't mean I can't enjoy one that is not. For example look at FFXI and FFXIV.. Not really dark at all and I had some fun there. I think TESO is going to be taking
6. Active Blocking is not in D&D.
See answer on #1.
Also I do like the idea of active blocking. It gives the tank more of a sense he is tanking. Tank can just go afk for a sandwich while he autoblocks a Frost Giant.
7. Classes seem like templates.
I want my plain Fighter to be a guardian fighter because of the moves I pick; not the class. I'm the kinda guy who WILL spend 3 hours rerolling my guy and if all there is in character creation is a bunch of templates like in diablo It'll ruin half the fun. While I didn't enjoy NWN2 at all I did have a blast making hybrid classes up with their huge selection. We want control and depth. LET US ROLL GIMPED CHARACTERS. Making it more instantly accessible will only LOWER the satisfaction players get from learning then doing it right and knowing their hero is actually most likely above average for the class because of their input. That personalization forms a much stronger bond to your character. It's not preference like face or hair. You're actually superior and that's fun.
I was on the fence for a while on this issue. The more I thought about it the more I realized that they are still giving you Trees to work with. If you give someone too many options they will go Cookie Cutter crazy on the community. If we could choose a weapon and talents to specialize that weapon then it can get really really messy. Example a Talent for 1h Maces to stun on chance.. <Random Guardian enters dungeon with party, Cleric says, "Hey you have a dagger? Where is your Mace?", Guardian responds, "I'm a Halfing and I like daggers."> (Party Votes to kick Guardian)
Already bought a founders pack, HotN and played last weekend all weekend and don't regret doing it in any way. I haven't even been able to play with the Foundry which is one of the biggest draws for me. Are there problems with the game? Hell yes. Are they game breaking problems for me? Hell no. I mean the lack of classes alone is an issue for me, but that doesn't change anything I said. I played WoW for years and think it is a great game, but I am tired of it now and don't play anymore. I had as much if not more fun playing this game than I did in my first weekend of WoW. I am sorry that you think it is a bad WoW clone, but to me it isn't anything like WoW.
As for TESO I seriously doubt I will be playing it in a few months. As for Archeage I seriously doubt I will ever play it, look like HAMSTER to me.
Correct me if I am wrong but didn't DnD online have around 60 levels if you count the ranks within the levels?
Vanilla WoW's damage was not high. High compared to PnP DnD? Sure, but what doesn't look high in comparison? Numbers are going to look bigger because, believe it or not the damage numbers don't mean much...at all. What matters is the damage vs health pools. Doing 1,000 damage vs something with 5,000 HP will feel the exact same as 1 damage vs something with 5 HP, except one is visually more appealing. Considering VIDEO games is largely a visual experience, guess which is the logical choice?
Templates, I semi-agree on, but I'd rather have it than no customization.
Classes are inspired from DnD, if you're meaning to say something more so about the holy trinity of tank/dps/healer then you just shouldn't be playing this game. Realize it's an MMO. It need's structures and systems or else it can't be balanced.
PVP is required, I repeat REQUIRED for an MMO to do well in this time, because sooner or later the PVE content will become stale, yes even with foundry though it does add a lot of longevity and "Shakes things up" on the PVE side of things. The game is also action combat which lends itself to more skillful play in PVE but puts a hell of a lot more skill into something like PVP. The combat system itself lends itself to PVP.
Tier sets..It's a HAMSTER MMO. Not pen and paper online. The game requires progression in all things, gear included. Oh and WoW wasn't fully instanced..ever.
The game is aimed to bring the DnD universe to MMO format. Welcome to MMOs. Pen and paper is
> That way
You clearly don't like the game and are sitting around trying to push your opinion on others and they're trying to push it back. If you have dismissed the game and don't like it, then don't let the door hit you on the way out.
As for the OP, I don't agree with any point made. None of these are concerns that make any sense to me or these "Countless millions of people crying out for the one true DnD game that they'll throw billions at". You clearly don't understand game design, market needs, or the business behind video games. Most people's "perfect" game is another's trash bin nightmare.
So far reading the forums the REAL concerns are:
1) The foundry might be too limiting not allowing for end game content to be created.
2) The foundry might not allow for proper loot options that cause exploits or be completely lootless (All though Astral Diamonds is a good compromise if it is lootless)
3) The Paragon/build choices might be really limited or imbalanced
4) End game might be completely missing
5) Story Quests might not use the same creativity that early Foundry quests have already shown
6) Astral Diamond item prices were extremely inflated and did not seem to mesh with the value of the packs shown
7) Will crafting be meaningful or enjoyable?
If you read enough posts you'll find these are the constant items cropping up. Your worries seem to be another DnD PnP snob trying to push their vision of their perfect game.
I'm not afraid to say it: DnD is NOT the best system to translate into a video game. The engine/design choices are the DM and there is no negotiating with them. Many of the nice aspects of DnD are completely mundane and annoying in a video game setting. Everyone has a different expectation of details and what is fun for them.
Can you make a DnD game that requires it to be a commercial success and enjoyed by non-DnD players? I love DnD and I wish there were more systems from there in this game, but they don't translate into "widespread" fun for many people that don't enjoy that sort of thing.
yes you are right, i don't like the game
no you are wrong, the game could and should have been done in another way to be more d&d players friendly, it is all a matter of development and a deliberate choice to aim young casual gamers from the xbox and manga generation.
It has nothing to see with d&d exept for the label and clearly use the d&d and neverwinter name to attract lost roleplayers.
my bet is that it will be a fail, and you and all the others that are trying hard to force people to think that this game could not be developped in another way will probably leave it a few month after its release for something more original and immersive, as it happened before to all the games i mentionned before.
It is still a pleasure sometimes to find one and remind him of the passion he had back in the days, for the awesome aoc, or the awesome swtor, etc.
anyway, when the wise man points something with its finger...
is incomparable to the sorrow of the wise man who becomes ignorant.
I find this amusing.
All of the above can originally be found in AD&D PnP, Final Fantasy, an Ultima Online.
After watching the beta feeds I can say I fall outside the target audience...but I will try it anyway. I gave SWTOR a go and still play it today (And like LotRo and DDO they are still releasing new content)
For all those in the thread arguing about lore and its importance....there ARE NO EVIL DEITIES in this version of Forgotten Realms.
To me, that's Cryptic tossing lore right out the window...and nobody's said much about that now, have they? What happened to the cause for the Spellplague? What caused the world's upheaval in THIS realm? Because without Bane, Cyric and the rest of the evil gods....it sure isn't Forgotten Realms.
Occam's Razor makes the cutting clean.