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Too many currencies ruin the soup and make a game a grind
varrvarr
Member Posts: 385 Arc User
Looking at the latest patch from STO, the things that are happening over for SWTOR's move to F2P and thinking about general trends in the industry I can't help but think developers are losing sight of what they making -games.
There recent patch to STO brings new content, this should be something to celebrate right? But it also brings with it a new rep system that will really result in grinding content over and over.
Why am I discussing this here at NW? Well we've heard it mentioned that there will be factions that we may be able to "earn" entry into. Given the amount of grinding I do in MMO's at end game, I cringe at the thought of yet another game where all I do is the same kind of content over and over again. I'm not against factions, I'm against mechanics that push me to do the same or similar activities repeatedly, especially when the goal of that grind is to earn reputation or currency that is then "spent" (I mean this in a looses sense of the term).
Add to this that we are seeing currency sinks in STO to make people spend more dilithium (the in game currency that can be used to buy game shop currency or items in game). Further more the methods of earning dilithium have been adjusted to slow down the pace at which players earn it.
I want games to be simple in these regards, I want the currencies in game to be as simple as possible, I want the methods for earning these currencies to be reasonable and as grind free as possible. If a game is going to have factions, I want them to have meaning other than a new "shop" and new currency for me to accumulate.
I want the game to be something I want to play and content to be something that I want to experience, not simply a means to amassing better loot. The minute you attach a grind to content, I lose interest and don't feel like logging in or playing. I really hope they can achieve this, but I fear given the trends in the genre that's just not going to be the case.
There recent patch to STO brings new content, this should be something to celebrate right? But it also brings with it a new rep system that will really result in grinding content over and over.
Why am I discussing this here at NW? Well we've heard it mentioned that there will be factions that we may be able to "earn" entry into. Given the amount of grinding I do in MMO's at end game, I cringe at the thought of yet another game where all I do is the same kind of content over and over again. I'm not against factions, I'm against mechanics that push me to do the same or similar activities repeatedly, especially when the goal of that grind is to earn reputation or currency that is then "spent" (I mean this in a looses sense of the term).
Add to this that we are seeing currency sinks in STO to make people spend more dilithium (the in game currency that can be used to buy game shop currency or items in game). Further more the methods of earning dilithium have been adjusted to slow down the pace at which players earn it.
I want games to be simple in these regards, I want the currencies in game to be as simple as possible, I want the methods for earning these currencies to be reasonable and as grind free as possible. If a game is going to have factions, I want them to have meaning other than a new "shop" and new currency for me to accumulate.
I want the game to be something I want to play and content to be something that I want to experience, not simply a means to amassing better loot. The minute you attach a grind to content, I lose interest and don't feel like logging in or playing. I really hope they can achieve this, but I fear given the trends in the genre that's just not going to be the case.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Post edited by varrvarr on
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I had heard in a few interviews information about factions we might be able to "join" as we work through the game, I have no clue if that was in reference to things planned for launch or things planned for later though. I can of course think of plenty of factions that fit that bill.
Regardless, even if there are no factions at launch, I hope they keep the currencies simple and the grinds as invisible as possible.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I'm pretty sure based on all the other interviews which absolutely never mention a faction joining that they mean WORK with the existing factions on the main storyline mission as it progresses.
Yeah, I hope they have those things I brought up a few months ago like alternate currencies and trade bars! That would be cool!
There are a lot of people involved in the production of our entertainment software, some are concerned with how to extract as much money as possible from the users and others are concerned with more game oriented aspects, as it were.
The problem in the past seems to have been the content, perhaps the foundry is the answer, I believe that it is, but we have yet to see if PWE will implement it correctly.
But I don't want to see a bunch of timesink faction grinds either, just more of the same garbage IMO.
The only problem with this idea is that D&D players, WE LOVE IT. All the OTHER gamers they're trying to attract won't like it though. I mean, lets face it, they're trying to make this as MMO oriented as possible to get other people involved, not just us. And sadly, most of those other players have no interest in RP currency, most outright despise RP and anything included in it. As much as I do enjoy the idea, most players will find it pointless and IF it were present at launch, it would very quickly be cut as they see "average gamers" complain about how they hate it. While this might sound odd to some, anyone who played SWtoR, WoW, or D3 can tell you that SHOULD you make the mistake of RPing in chat even ONCE in a regular server, you'll be trolled to death, booed, and any amount of other things people can do to HAMSTER you off. And seeing as how this is one server, we won't have the option of going to RP area and ignoring all these people.
I agree we don't want a lot of grinding at end game. What we want is more content. Hopefully the player-made content will fill that need.
I disagree! Last thing I want is another Guild Wars 2 that could be called as Casual Wars. You max your character in less then 2 weeks in GW2 which makes the PvE HAMSTER according to me. This game does maybe not be so hardcore as WOW(endless loot grind never max your character), but neither so annoying casual as Guild Wars 2. If there is a powerplateau(character can not get more powerful) then it should take a very long time to reach the powerplateau.
I don't buy the philosophy that endgame should not exist. Granted we got the FOUNDRY which I like and sure I can enjoy the journey(low-mid level adventures), but it should take a long time to max a character! Even my casual brother dislikes Guild Wars 2 and neither of us will never buy a GW2 expansion.
Honestly I would suspect Neverwinter is less hardcore then WOW, but not even near so casual as Guild Wars 2. Remember old NWN1 and NWN2? You had to explore like 90% of the released content(not talking about future Foundry content) before your character was maxed.
There doesn't need to be a maximum, not with UGC and encounters based upon current level.
Lets concentrate on powerprogression philosophy. The golden balance is likely very far from GW2 extremely casual loot policy, but maybe not so extremely hardcore as WOW. In other words yes character can be maxed, but it would take very long time to do so.
Say a mission is designed for a level 30 Captain. If a player who is at level cap decided to play this mission, the mobs in the mission will scale up to the level of that captain. So, despite it being a level 30 mission, if the player is level 50, the mobs in that mission will also be level 50.
Now, let's say a level 35 player wants to do this mission with one of his buddies. However, their buddy is level 50 and the level 35 player doesn't want the mission to scale up to the level 50 buddy. So the level 35 player creates a party with the level 50 and the level 50 then is able to level match to their level 35 buddy. This system will scale that level 50 down to match the level 35 player, so now both players are at level 35 in power. Now, they enter the mission and instead of the mobs scaling up to level 50, they only scale up to level 35.
As for what the player means specifically in your quote, what they are conveying is that UGC missions are not likely to be able to be designed for a specific level. Instead, their level depends on the player(s) level that plays them. Mobs would scale accordingly.
Now that this is out of the way, please take any further discussion of the game's level scaling to another thread for such, as this will end up detracting from the topic of the thread. Thanks!
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Not saying it's right or wrong, but what did you mean by "annoying casual?"
It had almost nothing to do with endgame content when I quit. It was all about PvP. That's the one thing IMO that was like CoD, MW, so on and so forth. Max lvl PvP WAS endgame content, and not being the best of the best of the best meant that you would never play in any serious guilds or get any real PvP gear. Most hardcore references were to PvP because people took it so seriously, it was flat out ridiculous. If you should fail at PvP, you would never hear the end of it. People would rant in chat for HOURS about how bad you did and this and that. WoW could honestly be the main reason most MMO players want PvP, because that's what it all came down to at the end of the day.
I didn't play WoW because I was told there was no grind way back then, then I found the levels where you actually begin to grind. Came *thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis* close to signing up before it was too late so glad I found out before.
As for PvP end-game, not my style. I don't mind if it's in the MMO, it's that every other MMO for years afterward does this trying to copy WoW to be successful and the lack of creativity was hair-pullingly maddening.
That's the thing though, all WoW REALLY has is endgame PvP. I mean, yea they have other things, but it's mostly about PvP. And you make me laugh SOOOO hard sir. Someone lied to you. Hard.
And for the record, in regard to the original post, I don't think STO Season 7 has too many currencies. I think that team's done a good job in reigning in the currencies and, according to a recent dev blog, they've been straightforward about their desire to keep reigns on the grinding.
That's the one I was referring to also. Since we're honoring our dead, here's my post on the alternate currencies and trade bars.
Ok, the "hardcore" comment makes more sense now. I hate PVP so never really took part in any of that. I try it in each game, but it has never grown on me so I completely avoid it.
Yea, people's idea of hardcore isn't about difficulty anymore apparently. It's about who's better than everyone else.
In ye olde days we called that l33t as in Elite.
I dunno about that. If that's the 'olde days', then I'm old at 22. And I'll be damned if I let my father in law know that.
As for PvP, i could never get into it simply for the purpose of people being Jerks. I know i'm not great, I still win more than i lose, but at the same time, when people are getting that rude about how much better they are with a copy/paste character or exploit i quickly lose interest. Luckily though i still manage to find the people who are gracious winners and losers which is why i keep accepting challenges on the occasional whim.
Make one, play one.
What do you mean by decent though?
By decent, I'm betting he means content people put real effort and time into. Content that makes you feel like you're part of the game, like everything ties together and you really feel immersed in the experience. He means Truth&Zebs content. ;D
Here are my thoughs about hardcore, but it has NOTHING to do with skill. It has to do with time given the game, but also how serious you are about the game i.e how important does it feel for you.
Skill? When I took driving license we had a test to measure reaction time. A normal has reaction time between 0.5-1.5 second and I did have 0.5 seconds. Also in martial arts back in the days reaction time was useful for defence. Anyway if talk about gaming Unreal Tournament 2004 is really fast paced Action FPS in there I slaughtered 3 of my friend sometimes in 1 vs 3 situations.
The skill does not make me hardcore. I don't think that.
Serious attitude is hardcore:I think saying "How serious they are about the game" is hardcore also. I created an Avatar in Unreal Tournament games that looked like Terminator and used that nickname. Anyway I felt like a cool Terminator when slaughtering players.
However I have never completely lost it so I believe I am in the game: If you mentatly believe you are in the game ok then I admit you are hardcore and even a bit insane. I meant this example:
Prelude first Part of PvP combat with 2 Guilds who hate each other and big stakes(betting):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_-FyEWBgpY&feature=player_embedded
In this episode Felicia Day looses it and believes she is in the game. Yeah that is extreme hardcore:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgK2EaPOfzI&feature=player_embedded
You may laugh, but sadly in history there are people who have become insane while playing, but of course they are a very small minority.
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Shortly said PvP alone can not make good endgame. There must be good PvE also. When I said hardcore I don't mean the Neverwinter should be like WOW everlasting loot mill. I would expect level up speed if you play 40 hours/week that you should not max your character before at least a few months have passed. That would be the minimum time needed I would aslo be ok with 6 months time frame to max a character.
Grinding isn't hardcore it is time consuming. I like end game content that is actually content, but I have no desire to repeat the same set of missions over and over again just to earn currency to buy new loot. Give me a game to play at end game, not the same dailies to grind over and over.
Well, if you're only 22, hate to break it to you...but l33t has been around far longer, and I remember its inception and popularity.