I don't mean to make a completely useless statement, but I seriously would do just about anything else than dailies. Blizzard seems to think that making dailies "random" (which isn't really random, its just sets of dailies) makes them fun somehow, but it doesn't. The Foundry will definitely circumvent the monotony that end-game tends to have, however dailies are usually focused on a specific aspect of the game. For example, in WoW, you do dailies to gain reputation with factions, so that you can actually spend the Valor you earn due to putting Honored/Revered requirements on vendor items. Will player-made content have the capabilities to reward you with something specifically designed by Cryptic, in that sense? Or what about meaningful vertical growth?
I don't really have a solution for dailies. I just know I hate them. I don't mind them at all when they're optional, but when you put stuff behind these dailies, it really turns them into just another chore on your list.
I don't mean to make a completely useless statement, but I seriously would do just about anything else than dailies. Blizzard seems to think that making dailies "random" (which isn't really random, its just sets of dailies) makes them fun somehow, but it doesn't. The Foundry will definitely circumvent the monotony that end-game tends to have, however dailies are usually focused on a specific aspect of the game. For example, in WoW, you do dailies to gain reputation with factions, so that you can actually spend the Valor you earn due to putting Honored/Revered requirements on vendor items. Will player-made content have the capabilities to reward you with something specifically designed by Cryptic, in that sense? Or what about meaningful vertical growth?
I don't really have a solution for dailies. I just know I hate them. I don't mind them at all when they're optional, but when you put stuff behind these dailies, it really turns them into just another chore on your list.
Well to all the no endgame mentality of Guild Wars 2 I hate it.
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
What do you suggest, then? This is their forum, and as far as I know, devs are aware of the community's suggestions for improvements.
But in the end, there IS a limit to how much stuff you can do in a game. You will eventually have completed everything if you spend enough time at it. What's left after everything is done? The Foundry is the answer to that, in my opinion. Take it upon yourself to CREATE more innovative ideas and end-game content instead of sitting there with your hands open like everyone owes you something. The game is free!
I understand that not everyone has the same altruistic view as me, though. But really, if you have a sudden epiphany, please share with all of us on how to improve upon the standards we know today as "dailies".
Well said. I think this nailed the topic though a bit harsh said and I did not mean to attack OP though obviously I do not share exact same opinions with OP.
Here is my view of endgame:
1. PvP most powerful characters are most dangerous. Hopefully Capture The Flag etc is supported and not only deathmatch. I hope we can get big Battlegrounds(instanced PvP areas, but not small Arena fights(small rooms) instead bigger areas that can have forest water etc.)
2. Dungeons... later some harder Dungeons or Raids that can only be accessed if you have enough good loot.
3. World Events outside in the World but they should be restricted that there are not to many players making them a zergfest(to many players making encounter easy) like in Guild Wars 2.
4. Foundry providing constant new interesting PvE content.
Oh and with 2nd point I did not mean WOW everlasting loot mill. The sweet spot of balance of powerprogression is likely between WOW(never max character) and Guild Wars 2 (2 weeks)... so 3-6 months maybe if you play 40 hours/week. After that we could have a bump in powerincrease of course with an expansion. After all at release all DD levels will not be available.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2012
I will personally vouch that our feedback suggestions were taken to heart (and I recognized some of the feedback here that ended up on the Guardian Fighter, so our feedbak IS listened to!)
So any and all suggestions are welcome even if there's no guarantee if will show up in the next Dev Blog
I completely argree. I don't mind a reputation scale as long as it is a one time award. Do mission X and get reputation. Replay and you are doing it for xp or loot. The reputation gained already was awarded. I like a reputation mechanic as long as it is not a grind feature. I've pretty much given up on STO with how much of a grind it has become. Some believe that grinding keeps players interested, but with so many other games out there going F2P, I don't need to. The Foundry, Events, and new Seasons are all I log in for.
Well said. I think this nailed the topic though a bit harsh said and I did not mean to attack OP though obviously I do not share exact same opinions with OP.
Here is my view of endgame:
1. PvP most powerful characters are most dangerous. Hopefully Capture The Flag etc is supported and not only deathmatch. I hope we can get big Battlegrounds(instanced PvP areas, but not small Arena fights(small rooms) instead bigger areas that can have forest water etc.)
2. Dungeons... later some harder Dungeons or Raids that can only be accessed if you have enough good loot.
3. World Events outside in the World but they should be restricted that there are not to many players making them a zergfest(to many players making encounter easy) like in Guild Wars 2.
4. Foundry providing constant new interesting PvE content.
Oh and with 2nd point I did not mean WOW everlasting loot mill. The sweet spot of balance of powerprogression is likely between WOW(never max character) and Guild Wars 2 (2 weeks)... so 3-6 months maybe if you play 40 hours/week. After that we could have a bump in powerincrease of course with an expansion. After all at release all DD levels will not be available.
While I won't really play NW for the PvP I have no real problem with this setup, I actually like raids, but proper raids should be a once a week thing in my opinion, maybe that's a hold over from my EQ days, but to harp on the point I'm sure I've made, don't make the raiding about dailies.
I understand you do not have experience with STO or CO, but I recommend going over to the STO forum and looking at the recent "Ask Cryptic" thread. The number one question being asked is - why have you increased the need for dilithium (increased prices in stores, added a "price" in dilithium for the Doff missions, etc..) and decreased the methods in which we can get it.
As I've described at end game in STO the foundry has a daily that provides dilithium, it was certainly being abused with "one" click missions where players designed missions that required only clicking one interactive item to complete all three of the foundry missions. I don't think anyone disagreed that this was too easy, though I'm sure most people did these missions. They are now changing so there is a time limit involved in the daily, I believe I've read it is going to be 1 hour. They've further removed or reduced other sources of dilithium from the game, so players now feel they are being funneled into certain content.
The solution, make every missions, every bit of content drop dilithium, but in quantities that match the time spent. So if I decided to a 2 hour long foundry mission give me a reward that is worth my time. Likewise if I do only a 30 minute foundry give me a reward worth my time. They obviously shouldn't be equal, but why should someone be punished for not wanting to be funneled into one kind of content or another?
Another solution is to remove Dilithium as a currency needed for end-game. The reason they are finding sinks for dilithium is because it can be traded for Zen, so make it only a Zen exchange currency and give the players an end-game currency that can be used in game to buy items, but not to buy Zen. I don't like this option as much because it just adds another currency.
Why am I harping about Dilithium on the NW forum? Because we know there will be Astral Diamonds which will be just like Dilithium. So my suggestion to the Devs is to be smart about Astral Diamonds, if the fear is that players will earn too much of it and never have to buy Zen, then don't provide it as the daily reward, but then don't require it to access end-game content (Doff system, and Starbases in STO) and items (end-game armor, weapons and gear in STO). Keep the shop currencies as separate from the game content as possible.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2012
Yeah, whn I saw these changes that nickeled and dimed me for my Dil and still had nowhere near the amount to trade in for ships, I stopped playing STO. This goes against the concept of F2P games, and should really be overhauled, let alone import such practices here.
Yeah, whn I saw these changes that nickeled and dimed me for my Dil and still had nowhere near the amount to trade in for ships, I stopped playing STO. This goes against the concept of F2P games, and should really be overhauled, let alone import such practices here.
Yeah I haven't logged in since S7, with the foundry down currently there is nothing for me to do that doesn't feel like a grind fest, so I just don't play. If I don't play I certainly don't spend money in the shop.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
While I won't really play NW for the PvP I have no real problem with this setup, I actually like raids, but proper raids should be a once a week thing in my opinion, maybe that's a hold over from my EQ days, but to harp on the point I'm sure I've made, don't make the raiding about dailies.
I understand you do not have experience with STO or CO, but I recommend going over to the STO forum and looking at the recent "Ask Cryptic" thread. The number one question being asked is - why have you increased the need for dilithium (increased prices in stores, added a "price" in dilithium for the Doff missions, etc..) and decreased the methods in which we can get it.
As I've described at end game in STO the foundry has a daily that provides dilithium, it was certainly being abused with "one" click missions where players designed missions that required only clicking one interactive item to complete all three of the foundry missions. I don't think anyone disagreed that this was too easy, though I'm sure most people did these missions. They are now changing so there is a time limit involved in the daily, I believe I've read it is going to be 1 hour. They've further removed or reduced other sources of dilithium from the game, so players now feel they are being funneled into certain content.
The solution, make every missions, every bit of content drop dilithium, but in quantities that match the time spent. So if I decided to a 2 hour long foundry mission give me a reward that is worth my time. Likewise if I do only a 30 minute foundry give me a reward worth my time. They obviously shouldn't be equal, but why should someone be punished for not wanting to be funneled into one kind of content or another?
Another solution is to remove Dilithium as a currency needed for end-game. The reason they are finding sinks for dilithium is because it can be traded for Zen, so make it only a Zen exchange currency and give the players an end-game currency that can be used in game to buy items, but not to buy Zen. I don't like this option as much because it just adds another currency.
Why am I harping about Dilithium on the NW forum? Because we know there will be Astral Diamonds which will be just like Dilithium. So my suggestion to the Devs is to be smart about Astral Diamonds, if the fear is that players will earn too much of it and never have to buy Zen, then don't provide it as the daily reward, but then don't require it to access end-game content (Doff system, and Starbases in STO) and items (end-game armor, weapons and gear in STO). Keep the shop currencies as separate from the game content as possible.
Well this post made some sense to me though I still do not agree with everything. Yeah I absolutely agree that rewards from Dungeons should be given depending on what you actually do.
It would make me no sense if there would be an adventure and you do once click mission and it gives same reward as winning a Dragon in a 2 hour Dungeon run with defeating lots of mobs before meeting the nasty endboss.
The big question is though where we disagree is that should FOUNDRY content give the best loot avaible in the game? I say no because it can easily be abused. The best loot should be given from some Cryptic only made very hard Dungeons or Raids since then Cryptic can make sure that the challenge is very hard i.e challenge is in par with the loot.
With my logic you could ask what motivation is there for a max level character to do FOUNDRY content then? Answer is really none except if there are interesting adventures tailored for max level. This would work if you take my approach play 40 hours /week and you max your character in 3 months. I plan to have many characters so I would not be done with Foundry.
One possible solution would be that big rewards are tied to defeating dangerous monsters. For example a Foundry mission with a big red Dragon to kill would generate lots of currency that can be used to bought items. The problem with that system is that then there would be lots of hey lets hunt this monster type.... but on the other hand I don't see any easy or perfect solution to the loot debate.
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2012
Based on new Foundry updates including average character level and average overall time spent in mission checked against individual play, I don't see why they can't make an end mission box random reward item tiered to that "end level rating?" Even if it's 5 seconds and junk then?
Based on new Foundry updates including average character level and average overall time spent in mission checked against individual play, I don't see why they can't make an end mission box random reward item tiered to that "end level rating?" Even if it's 5 seconds and junk then?
Yeah that could be logic, but who would define what is average time spent? You could give reward on depending login time, but then I would log into some adventure and stay logged inside the adventure when I sleep and in the morning finish it:). If the average time spend would be after one trial month calculated from played time then maybe some logic in average time spent calucated from actual players.
I am a powergamer. When I played Neverwinter Nights 1 on a persistent server I really had a hate relation to the server keepers. They even banned me couple of times for couple of weeks. It had always to do with powergaming and finding loopholes in their server world. My own brother was GM in a pen and papers session DD 3.5 rules and sometimes complained that must I powergame so much and I answered: I don't must, but I want to powergame:).
To my defense those server keepers were ridiculous the whole thing started when I simply min maxed my character abilities and they thought that having a character with intelligence 8 would not fit their world when I play smartly my character. I pointed out that with some races you could have 6 intelligence, but they were those stubborn hardcore roleplayers that I dislike.
If you set that you can get best loot from doing FOUNDRY content it is so going to be abused. The only safe way is that best loot can only can be got from Cryptic made content.
Yeah that could be logic, but who would define what is average time spent? You could give reward on depending login time, but then I would log into some adventure and stay logged inside the adventure when I sleep and in the morning finish it:). If the average time spend would be after one trial month calculated from played time then maybe some logic in average time spent calucated from actual players.
I am a powergamer. When I played Neverwinter Nights 1 on a persistent server I really had a hate relation to the server keepers. They even banned me couple of times for couple of weeks. It had always to do with powergaming and finding loopholes in their server world. My own brother was GM in a pen and papers session DD 3.5 rules and sometimes complained that must I powergame so much and I answered: I don't must, but I want to powergame:).
To my defense those server keepers were ridiculous the whole thing started when I simply min maxed my character abilities and they thought that having a character with intelligence 8 would not fit their world when I play smartly my character. I pointed out that with some races you could have 6 intelligence, but they were those stubborn hardcore roleplayers that I dislike.
If you set that you can get best loot from doing FOUNDRY content it is so going to be abused. The only safe way is that best loot can only can be got from Cryptic made content.
I will agree basing rewards based on time spent in missions has the potential for abuse. A dedicated guild could definitely warp the stats of an unpopular quest.
But Cryptic wants us to use the Foundry as much as possible, why else create it in the first place?
I don't agree with some of their past thinking, such as limiting the amount of time that the player can be rewarded for playing the game. If someone wants to play the game for 48 hours straight they should be amply rewarded not penalized. They should probably take micro breaks during their play session as well, just to be safe.
I might go so far as to say that every game every created has within it the potential to be exploited. That is the nature of games. And there are those that enjoy finding those exploits, we don't think of them as exploits, rather new and interesting playstyles, maximum reward for least effort, efficiency. lol, I am sure that within the offices of the devs the game is created as efficiently as possible (or at least attempted to) Why would you then expect us to play the game in a different way? But I have tried to define the game, which is impossible.
Interesting? While this only adds another currency to the mix, it might be worth it. So would it have it's own store with end-game gear that might not be raid quality, but better than the poor quality drops that one gets at end-game?
So let's say every foundry mission that gives xp, should give some form of foundry currency?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Yeah that could be logic, but who would define what is average time spent? You could give reward on depending login time, but then I would log into some adventure and stay logged inside the adventure when I sleep and in the morning finish it:). If the average time spend would be after one trial month calculated from played time then maybe some logic in average time spent calucated from actual players.
I am a powergamer. When I played Neverwinter Nights 1 on a persistent server I really had a hate relation to the server keepers. They even banned me couple of times for couple of weeks. It had always to do with powergaming and finding loopholes in their server world. My own brother was GM in a pen and papers session DD 3.5 rules and sometimes complained that must I powergame so much and I answered: I don't must, but I want to powergame:).
To my defense those server keepers were ridiculous the whole thing started when I simply min maxed my character abilities and they thought that having a character with intelligence 8 would not fit their world when I play smartly my character. I pointed out that with some races you could have 6 intelligence, but they were those stubborn hardcore roleplayers that I dislike.
If you set that you can get best loot from doing FOUNDRY content it is so going to be abused. The only safe way is that best loot can only can be got from Cryptic made content.
I will agree basing rewards based on time spent in missions has the potential for abuse. A dedicated guild could definitely warp the stats of an unpopular quest.
But Cryptic wants us to use the Foundry as much as possible, why else create it in the first place?
I don't agree with some of their past thinking, such as limiting the amount of time that the player can be rewarded for playing the game. If someone wants to play the game for 48 hours straight they should be amply rewarded not penalized. They should probably take micro breaks during their play session as well, just to be safe.
I might go so far as to say that every game every created has within it the potential to be exploited. That is the nature of games. And there are those that enjoy finding those exploits, we don't think of them as exploits, rather new and interesting playstyles, maximum reward for least effort, efficiency. lol, I am sure that within the offices of the devs the game is created as efficiently as possible (or at least attempted to) Why would you then expect us to play the game in a different way? But I have tried to define the game, which is impossible.
I vote for user generated currencies.
If you park your character they will be booted after 25 minutes. Other...security methods are not talked about for those who try to circumvent this but it ends up with the player risk being banned if they try and hack around this.
The average time using this is the group overall time of all players playing that Foundry mission, not simply that user's average time. The safeguards actually make this a workable gateway flag and working well with overall character average level for end chest reward.
If you park your character they will be booted after 25 minutes. Other...security methods are not talked about for those who try to circumvent this but it ends up with the player risk being banned if they try and hack around this.
The average time using this is the group overall time of all players playing that Foundry mission, not simply that user's average time. The safeguards actually make this a workable gateway flag and working well with overall character average level for end chest reward.
So you are telling me I could be banned for having my character walking around in a single room all day looking at the artwork on the walls?
I see quests with names like, "please spend 20 minutes on this mission." Honestly, it's easier to exploit than that one click thing in STO. Log in, make a sandwich, get some xp.
So you are telling me I could be banned for having my character walking around in a single room all day looking at the artwork on the walls?
I see quests with names like, "please spend 20 minutes on this mission." Honestly, it's easier to exploit than that one click thing in STO. Log in, make a sandwich, get some xp.
You are misreading. You get booted(ie. logged out) from server for inactivity like for any other game. However, it should warn you a few times showing a pop-up message that you have been inactive, and if you press OK, you are active. Things like that.
You get banned for changing/modifying client. You will know it yourself when you are cheating and so will the devs(they are clever you see).
So exploiting is not cool and will get you in trouble but other stuff as long as not exploiting is fine.
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elewyndylMember, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
If you park your character they will be booted after 25 minutes. Other...security methods are not talked about for those who try to circumvent this but it ends up with the player risk being banned if they try and hack around this.
I work with computers, but I am not an idiot that try to hack some server. 25 minutes? Ok I can live with that. So I watch TV and clock rings every 24 minutes and then I play 20 seconds. That many times and after TV serie episode is done I play and finish the adventure and get rewared = time* enemies killed:).
Interesting? While this only adds another currency to the mix, it might be worth it. So would it have it's own store with end-game gear that might not be raid quality, but better than the poor quality drops that one gets at end-game?
So let's say every foundry mission that gives xp, should give some form of foundry currency?
Yes I am ok with this. Raids give best gear however Foundry can still give medium/ok gear that are better then bad Raid gear. I mean if we take PvP and a Raider that has best items and they play vs a Foundry player with best Foundry items then I do not think that the Foundry player should be ****though Raid player do have slightly better items. Also third way to get good PvP items is from doing very much of PvP.
When creating a foundry level the creator adds in encounters they also define the difficulty of each encounter. They can specify that any given monster is easy, medium or hard. Thus, if they wanted to give out better loot then they'd just throw in harder encounters. If they wanted to give out the best end-game loot then they'd just specify that the encounters were the hardest available and let Cryptic sort out the rest. Cryptic should be able to tell when several very difficult encounters were defeated and give out gear accordingly. There shouldn't be any reason that player made missions can't have the hardest raid encounters and the best loot in the game, assuming that they have raid-level difficulty encounters in them. And maybe the best loot in the game would only be given out after adventures that have multiple raid-level encounters in them. On the same note, there's no reason that the Foundry can't give out any given currency, with amounts based on the difficulties specified. The creator should be able to specify the currency given, and Cryptic would define how easily those currencies are given out based on the same things that define the other treasure rewards.
The only tricky part comes in non-encounter based adventures. Where a player is simply running a maze or talking to NPCs then the time spent should be a factor but the timer shouldn't be running non-stop if the player isn't active.
Maybe the time counter would only run for 30 seconds after each trigger. A trigger could include: reading a new dialogue choice (looping dialogue wouldn't cut it, nor would dialogue with a single choice) or exploring a new area of an adventure (dungeon room, or 100 feet of path, etc) or any combat. Thus, if you wanted to rack up your 20 minute adventure then you'd actually have to be actively participating in adventure; leaving your character idle for more than half a minute would yield you exactly nothing. Having your character run in a circle or into a wall or cycle through looping dialogue would do almost nothing; you'd only get credit for the first 30 seconds of such activity. Of course, someone would attempt to make a dungeon where you could put it on autorun in a straight line and just run for 30 minutes.
Cryptic should just set a scale something like this: If you play actively less than 5 mintues then you'll get the same reward as defeating an easy encounter. If you play actively between 5 and 10 minutes then you'll get the same reward as defeating a medium and an easy encounter, and if you play actively more than 15 minutes then you'll get the same reward as defeating a hard and a medium and an easy encounter.
iamtruthseekerMember, Moonstars, Neverwinter Beta UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2012
Yes but you can't get XP for non-combat. You ALWAYS get a chest at the end of a mission. But monsters dropped can drop lesser-than=end=chest magic items and other wealth too, so it's a tad saddening for those who want an equal combat free adventure.
And I can't go into details, but if you have your character just mostly idle that won't help your "Foundry Time." Again, if you try and hack this like Botting...they will know and you risk getting banned
Yes but you can't get XP for non-combat. You ALWAYS get a chest at the end of a mission. But monsters dropped can drop lesser-than=end=chest magic items and other wealth too, so it's a tad saddening for those who want an equal combat free adventure.
And I can't go into details, but if you have your character just mostly idle that won't help your "Foundry Time." Again, if you try and hack this like Botting...they will know and you risk getting banned
Let us create a labyrinth. Let the map of the labyrinth be available online. Is a macro a bot?
No a macro in of itself isn't necessarily a "bot".
So can I log in before I go to work, set my character to walk down a corridor that will take eight hours to complete, and come back to a big chest of loot at the end of the day?
So can I log in before I go to work, set my character to walk down a corridor that will take eight hours to complete, and come back to a big chest of loot at the end of the day?
Probably not a good example because you can do that without a macro in many games
In any case, games that provide a macro system cannot consider using them "cheating".
So can I log in before I go to work, set my character to walk down a corridor that will take eight hours to complete, and come back to a big chest of loot at the end of the day?
No that would be considered botting because you are not at the keyboard. Basically if you write a script or use macros to make your toon do things while you are away from the keyboard ( as in gone to work, take a nap etc ) then that's botting.
If you make a macro to do something while you are at the keyboard and playing then it's not botting.
For example if have 5 skill bars but use #1 as the main skill bar with some skills/pots you rarely use on skillbar #5 and you make a macro where hitting say a certain key on your KB switches to bar five and makes you use item 3 then switch back to bar 1 that's not botting.
Basically anything the lets your toon play while you are not there is botting . In your example you could be considered botting simply by logging in, going in the quest jamming the "w" or walk forward key with a paper click or some kind of weight on it and going to work.
I pretty much doubt they will let anyone abuse the foundry system like this to get easy loot.
No that would be considered botting because you are not at the keyboard. Basically if you write a script or use macros to make your toon do things while you are away from the keyboard ( as in gone to work, take a nap etc ) then that's botting.
If you make a macro to do something while you are at the keyboard and playing then it's not botting.
For example if have 5 skill bars but use #1 as the main skill bar with some skills/pots you rarely use on skillbar #5 and you make a macro where hitting say a certain key on your KB switches to bar five and makes you use item 3 then switch back to bar 1 that's not botting.
Basically anything the lets your toon play while you are not there is botting . In your example you could be considered botting simply by logging in, going in the quest jamming the "w" or walk forward key with a paper click or some kind of weight on it and going to work.
I pretty much doubt they will let anyone abuse the foundry system like this to get easy loot.
Did you listen to the video on the China site? The Cryptic guy on there talks quite a bit about how they addressed some past exploits. I found it fascinating.
Did you listen to the video on the China site? The Cryptic guy on there talks quite a bit about how they addressed some past exploits. I found it fascinating.
Naw I haven't seen it, tbh I am getting real tired of "looking"at videos lol. They need to get betas rolling soon.
If I use one of those remote desktop apps to watch and perhaps control my character through the corridor while I am at work would that be considered AFK?
Comments
I don't really have a solution for dailies. I just know I hate them. I don't mind them at all when they're optional, but when you put stuff behind these dailies, it really turns them into just another chore on your list.
Here is my view of endgame:
1. PvP most powerful characters are most dangerous. Hopefully Capture The Flag etc is supported and not only deathmatch. I hope we can get big Battlegrounds(instanced PvP areas, but not small Arena fights(small rooms) instead bigger areas that can have forest water etc.)
2. Dungeons... later some harder Dungeons or Raids that can only be accessed if you have enough good loot.
3. World Events outside in the World but they should be restricted that there are not to many players making them a zergfest(to many players making encounter easy) like in Guild Wars 2.
4. Foundry providing constant new interesting PvE content.
Oh and with 2nd point I did not mean WOW everlasting loot mill. The sweet spot of balance of powerprogression is likely between WOW(never max character) and Guild Wars 2 (2 weeks)... so 3-6 months maybe if you play 40 hours/week. After that we could have a bump in powerincrease of course with an expansion. After all at release all DD levels will not be available.
So any and all suggestions are welcome even if there's no guarantee if will show up in the next Dev Blog
While I won't really play NW for the PvP I have no real problem with this setup, I actually like raids, but proper raids should be a once a week thing in my opinion, maybe that's a hold over from my EQ days, but to harp on the point I'm sure I've made, don't make the raiding about dailies.
I understand you do not have experience with STO or CO, but I recommend going over to the STO forum and looking at the recent "Ask Cryptic" thread. The number one question being asked is - why have you increased the need for dilithium (increased prices in stores, added a "price" in dilithium for the Doff missions, etc..) and decreased the methods in which we can get it.
As I've described at end game in STO the foundry has a daily that provides dilithium, it was certainly being abused with "one" click missions where players designed missions that required only clicking one interactive item to complete all three of the foundry missions. I don't think anyone disagreed that this was too easy, though I'm sure most people did these missions. They are now changing so there is a time limit involved in the daily, I believe I've read it is going to be 1 hour. They've further removed or reduced other sources of dilithium from the game, so players now feel they are being funneled into certain content.
The solution, make every missions, every bit of content drop dilithium, but in quantities that match the time spent. So if I decided to a 2 hour long foundry mission give me a reward that is worth my time. Likewise if I do only a 30 minute foundry give me a reward worth my time. They obviously shouldn't be equal, but why should someone be punished for not wanting to be funneled into one kind of content or another?
Another solution is to remove Dilithium as a currency needed for end-game. The reason they are finding sinks for dilithium is because it can be traded for Zen, so make it only a Zen exchange currency and give the players an end-game currency that can be used in game to buy items, but not to buy Zen. I don't like this option as much because it just adds another currency.
Why am I harping about Dilithium on the NW forum? Because we know there will be Astral Diamonds which will be just like Dilithium. So my suggestion to the Devs is to be smart about Astral Diamonds, if the fear is that players will earn too much of it and never have to buy Zen, then don't provide it as the daily reward, but then don't require it to access end-game content (Doff system, and Starbases in STO) and items (end-game armor, weapons and gear in STO). Keep the shop currencies as separate from the game content as possible.
Yeah I haven't logged in since S7, with the foundry down currently there is nothing for me to do that doesn't feel like a grind fest, so I just don't play. If I don't play I certainly don't spend money in the shop.
It would make me no sense if there would be an adventure and you do once click mission and it gives same reward as winning a Dragon in a 2 hour Dungeon run with defeating lots of mobs before meeting the nasty endboss.
The big question is though where we disagree is that should FOUNDRY content give the best loot avaible in the game? I say no because it can easily be abused. The best loot should be given from some Cryptic only made very hard Dungeons or Raids since then Cryptic can make sure that the challenge is very hard i.e challenge is in par with the loot.
With my logic you could ask what motivation is there for a max level character to do FOUNDRY content then? Answer is really none except if there are interesting adventures tailored for max level. This would work if you take my approach play 40 hours /week and you max your character in 3 months. I plan to have many characters so I would not be done with Foundry.
One possible solution would be that big rewards are tied to defeating dangerous monsters. For example a Foundry mission with a big red Dragon to kill would generate lots of currency that can be used to bought items. The problem with that system is that then there would be lots of hey lets hunt this monster type.... but on the other hand I don't see any easy or perfect solution to the loot debate.
I am a powergamer. When I played Neverwinter Nights 1 on a persistent server I really had a hate relation to the server keepers. They even banned me couple of times for couple of weeks. It had always to do with powergaming and finding loopholes in their server world. My own brother was GM in a pen and papers session DD 3.5 rules and sometimes complained that must I powergame so much and I answered: I don't must, but I want to powergame:).
To my defense those server keepers were ridiculous the whole thing started when I simply min maxed my character abilities and they thought that having a character with intelligence 8 would not fit their world when I play smartly my character. I pointed out that with some races you could have 6 intelligence, but they were those stubborn hardcore roleplayers that I dislike.
If you set that you can get best loot from doing FOUNDRY content it is so going to be abused. The only safe way is that best loot can only can be got from Cryptic made content.
I will agree basing rewards based on time spent in missions has the potential for abuse. A dedicated guild could definitely warp the stats of an unpopular quest.
But Cryptic wants us to use the Foundry as much as possible, why else create it in the first place?
I don't agree with some of their past thinking, such as limiting the amount of time that the player can be rewarded for playing the game. If someone wants to play the game for 48 hours straight they should be amply rewarded not penalized. They should probably take micro breaks during their play session as well, just to be safe.
I might go so far as to say that every game every created has within it the potential to be exploited. That is the nature of games. And there are those that enjoy finding those exploits, we don't think of them as exploits, rather new and interesting playstyles, maximum reward for least effort, efficiency. lol, I am sure that within the offices of the devs the game is created as efficiently as possible (or at least attempted to) Why would you then expect us to play the game in a different way? But I have tried to define the game, which is impossible.
I vote for user generated currencies.
Interesting? While this only adds another currency to the mix, it might be worth it. So would it have it's own store with end-game gear that might not be raid quality, but better than the poor quality drops that one gets at end-game?
So let's say every foundry mission that gives xp, should give some form of foundry currency?
If you park your character they will be booted after 25 minutes. Other...security methods are not talked about for those who try to circumvent this but it ends up with the player risk being banned if they try and hack around this.
The average time using this is the group overall time of all players playing that Foundry mission, not simply that user's average time. The safeguards actually make this a workable gateway flag and working well with overall character average level for end chest reward.
So you are telling me I could be banned for having my character walking around in a single room all day looking at the artwork on the walls?
I see quests with names like, "please spend 20 minutes on this mission." Honestly, it's easier to exploit than that one click thing in STO. Log in, make a sandwich, get some xp.
You get banned for changing/modifying client. You will know it yourself when you are cheating and so will the devs(they are clever you see).
So exploiting is not cool and will get you in trouble but other stuff as long as not exploiting is fine.
Yes I am ok with this. Raids give best gear however Foundry can still give medium/ok gear that are better then bad Raid gear. I mean if we take PvP and a Raider that has best items and they play vs a Foundry player with best Foundry items then I do not think that the Foundry player should be ****though Raid player do have slightly better items. Also third way to get good PvP items is from doing very much of PvP.
The only tricky part comes in non-encounter based adventures. Where a player is simply running a maze or talking to NPCs then the time spent should be a factor but the timer shouldn't be running non-stop if the player isn't active.
Maybe the time counter would only run for 30 seconds after each trigger. A trigger could include: reading a new dialogue choice (looping dialogue wouldn't cut it, nor would dialogue with a single choice) or exploring a new area of an adventure (dungeon room, or 100 feet of path, etc) or any combat. Thus, if you wanted to rack up your 20 minute adventure then you'd actually have to be actively participating in adventure; leaving your character idle for more than half a minute would yield you exactly nothing. Having your character run in a circle or into a wall or cycle through looping dialogue would do almost nothing; you'd only get credit for the first 30 seconds of such activity. Of course, someone would attempt to make a dungeon where you could put it on autorun in a straight line and just run for 30 minutes.
Cryptic should just set a scale something like this: If you play actively less than 5 mintues then you'll get the same reward as defeating an easy encounter. If you play actively between 5 and 10 minutes then you'll get the same reward as defeating a medium and an easy encounter, and if you play actively more than 15 minutes then you'll get the same reward as defeating a hard and a medium and an easy encounter.
And I can't go into details, but if you have your character just mostly idle that won't help your "Foundry Time." Again, if you try and hack this like Botting...they will know and you risk getting banned
Let us create a labyrinth. Let the map of the labyrinth be available online. Is a macro a bot?
No a macro in of itself isn't necessarily a "bot".
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
So can I log in before I go to work, set my character to walk down a corridor that will take eight hours to complete, and come back to a big chest of loot at the end of the day?
In any case, games that provide a macro system cannot consider using them "cheating".
No that would be considered botting because you are not at the keyboard. Basically if you write a script or use macros to make your toon do things while you are away from the keyboard ( as in gone to work, take a nap etc ) then that's botting.
If you make a macro to do something while you are at the keyboard and playing then it's not botting.
For example if have 5 skill bars but use #1 as the main skill bar with some skills/pots you rarely use on skillbar #5 and you make a macro where hitting say a certain key on your KB switches to bar five and makes you use item 3 then switch back to bar 1 that's not botting.
Basically anything the lets your toon play while you are not there is botting . In your example you could be considered botting simply by logging in, going in the quest jamming the "w" or walk forward key with a paper click or some kind of weight on it and going to work.
I pretty much doubt they will let anyone abuse the foundry system like this to get easy loot.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Naw I haven't seen it, tbh I am getting real tired of "looking"at videos lol. They need to get betas rolling soon.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild