how much i know they said cotent wont be charged and all classes will be unlocked to everyone,they said so many times so hope they wont change thet becuse charging for classes is one of most stupid things in f2p games
I have heard them say that about content, but I haven't heard that said about classes or races (which this thread is about). The thing is this game need a way to generate income if it is not going to have a sub-based option and the best way to do that is to charge for anything that can be seen as a customization like races. I'd rather be charged for a race then have them dropping lockboxes every where in an attempt to get me to spend money on something I don't want.
I have heard them say that about content, but I haven't heard that said about classes or races (which this thread is about). The thing is this game need a way to generate income if it is not going to have a sub-based option and the best way to do that is to charge for anything that can be seen as a customization like races. I'd rather be charged for a race then have them dropping lockboxes every where in an attempt to get me to spend money on something I don't want.
I think you misunderstand their statement. They said vanity and convinience items will in shop. Stromshade has already answered that it is not like vanity item will "ONLY" be available in shop. So for example, if pet is vanity item, there will be a few pets available for free too (check my sticky dev reply thread for that). Hence your assuming "Races" are vanity is incorrect.
What they can offer in shop is "Quick unlock" of a particular race or class. While others have to play a lot of content to unlock, you can probably skip it by just clicking a few buttons!
So if pets are vanity, you can probably have brown horse. But to get white horse, black horse, a spider pet etc. you will need to pay.
@neowolfen this is not STO or CO. Check the link in first post here for many of their comments you might have missed..
p.s. I guess my beholder pet and mount will be expensive ...
link
Q : Will there be some cosmetics even for those who dont want to use real life money o have i understand-ed something completely wrong that we'll be able to buy cosmetics and some bonuses using real life money?
A: There will definitely be ways to earn cosmetic things in-game, as well as through the MT store.
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
I think you misunderstand their statement. They said vanity and convinience items will in shop. Stromshade has already answered that it is not like vanity item will "ONLY" be available in shop. So for example, if pet is vanity item, there will be a few pets available for free too (check my sticky dev reply thread for that). Hence your assuming "Races" are vanity is incorrect.
What they can offer in shop is "Quick unlock" of a particular race or class. While others have to play a lot of content to unlock, you can probably skip it by just clicking a few buttons!
So if pets are vanity, you can probably have brown horse. But to get white horse, black horse, a spider pet etc. you will need to pay.
@neowolfen this is not STO or CO. Check the link in first post here for many of their comments you might have missed..
p.s. I guess my beholder pet and mount will be expensive ...
The only quotes I can find in regards to the shop say the following things.
We have no plans to sell the +5 Radiant Vorpal Sword of Immediate Dragon Slaying in Neverwinter.
There are no plans to make a quick dime off of players who just have to have that +5 suit of magical plate armor that just so happens to be wearable as cloth armor, and have a ridiculous amount of health regen and the ability to store any 6 spells of your choice for a 24 hours period of time.
Nor will will be selling other types of "power".
In short, pay to win is not what we want Neverwinter to be.
Thanks,
Stormshade
and from your sticky:
Q: Are all classes that are immediately available on release (and planned to be in a future build: )
=released playable (or will be playable) for free immediately
=some be available for free after an "unlock" of some kind
=some classes must be paid for or are "premium?"
A: We're still working out the details of our MT/Cash Shop Strategy. So, I can't answer this right now. What I can say, is to take a look at the idea of Questionite and Dilithium in CO and STO.
But I don't know where this comes from, I don't see a link.
Just because they are not going to sell power doesn't mean they won't sell classes or races. Classes if designed correctly are not selling power or being p2w. Let's say the chose to sell Paragon Paths, a Warpriest is no more powerful than a Doomsguide, they are just different ways of playing a divine class (in this case Cleric).
But I don't know where this comes from, I don't see a link.
Just because they are not going to sell power doesn't mean they won't sell classes or races. Classes if designed correctly are not selling power or being p2w. Let's say the chose to sell Paragon Paths, a Warpriest is no more powerful than a Doomsguide, they are just different ways of playing a divine class (in this case Cleric).[/QUOTE]
having clases as thing to pay for is one of worst posible f2p metod and one of lowest thing to go only 2 publishers go thet low soe and turbine whit ddo and lotor whit zone lockes even all mighty evil EA dont do go thet low and dont think thet PW wouldnt ever go thet low to
0
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
Let's say the chose to sell Paragon Paths, a Warpriest is no more powerful than a Doomsguide, they are just different ways of playing a divine class (in this case Cleric).
Bah, let's try to leave the clerics out of this, they have given us exactly zero information on the class and mentioning them just makes me anxious :P
The only quotes I can find in regards to the shop say the following things.
and from your sticky:
But I don't know where this comes from, I don't see a link.
Just because they are not going to sell power doesn't mean they won't sell classes or races. Classes if designed correctly are not selling power or being p2w. Let's say the chose to sell Paragon Paths, a Warpriest is no more powerful than a Doomsguide, they are just different ways of playing a divine class (in this case Cleric).
I added the quote in previous post. As they have said they will sell cosmetic and convenience items.
Race and classes are not categorized as vanity as stats etc are different for them. Clothes, skinz, are categorized as vanity. Similarly a pet is categorized as vanity if it does not partakes in combat - otherwise it is not vanity. These are the current norms among the gaming media - I hope you will agree with it.
The reason I am agreeing that races can end up being paid (not classes) is because of the 'unlock' thingy. That way it will be categorized as 'convinience' not as vanity. Instead of levelling up at least one character to level 60, you can unlock genasi race by paying in shop.
Similarly paragon paths change your stats. Hence they cannot be categorized as vanity but can be categorized as convenience - if it is by unlocking.
They have already said that classes and content will not be in shop. That is a move to create balance in the game. They may not even be unlockable as a convenience item(as they cannot be regarded as one unlike race because of roles).
p.s. Also devs(specifically ss) has already said that NW is different from CO and STO as it is true f2p game build on that model from grounds up. Thus it will be different from them. So it is not my quote when I say STO and CO is not an example of how NW will be - if it turns untrue blame devs
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Stormshade replied in green bold. Those are from the archived posts back before the merger, I can confirm they (posts 55 & 56 there-in) were posted by Stormshade never-the-less.
ranncoreMember, Moderators, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 2,508
edited November 2012
Comparing NWO to the last generation of PWE games like STO and CO is kind of silly (except when talking about The Foundry as there are few other examples to use).
You'd do better to look at other PWE games being developed RIGHT NOW for comparison.
having clases as thing to pay for is one of worst posible f2p metod and one of lowest thing to go only 2 publishers go thet low soe and turbine whit ddo and lotor whit zone lockes even all mighty evil EA dont do go thet low and dont think thet PW wouldnt ever go thet low to
They already said in interview that classes and content will not be payable. The classes added later will be free (nothing about races though). The reason defined was that free classes help bring new players to the game while new content helps bring old players back to game.
Hence it would be stupid to make classes paid. Content may have unlocking thing etc. as old players for whom the content is added should be able to unlock it and feel special as if the content is for them.
EDIT: You are going to ask for the source of interveiw too aren't you? Dang! WHere is the trust in this world!!!!
I will see if I can find the youtube interview where they said that. Basically classes and content are free. Races - no info.
I am sorry I can't see anything in any of the quotes posted that say classes or races won't be sold.
link
Q : Will there be some cosmetics even for those who dont want to use real life money o have i understand-ed something completely wrong that we'll be able to buy cosmetics and some bonuses using real life money?
A: There will definitely be ways to earn cosmetic things in-game, as well as through the MT store.
This just says that some cosmetics will be earned in game and some through the store.
We have no plans to sell the +5 Radiant Vorpal Sword of Immediate Dragon Slaying in Neverwinter.
There are no plans to make a quick dime off of players who just have to have that +5 suit of magical plate armor that just so happens to be wearable as cloth armor, and have a ridiculous amount of health regen and the ability to store any 6 spells of your choice for a 24 hours period of time.
Nor will will be selling other types of "power".
In short, pay to win is not what we want Neverwinter to be.
Thanks,
Stormshade
This just says that they won't be selling "power" items in the shop.
Are all classes that are immediately available on release (and planned to be in a future build: )
released playable (or will be playable) for free immediately
some be available for free after an "unlock" of some kind
some classes must be paid for or are "premium?"
We're still working out the details of our MT/Cash Shop Strategy. So, I can't answer this right now. What I can say, is to take a look at the idea of Questionite and Dilithium in CO and STO.
This simply says that they haven't worked out everything, but that looking at CO and STO is a good way to see what might be sold, as I've suggested in all my threads. *note on this one I have changed the font color to show the distinction between the question and the answer.*
Comparing NWO to the last generation of PWE games like STO and CO is kind of silly (except when talking about The Foundry as there are few other examples to use).
You'd do better to look at other PWE games being developed RIGHT NOW for comparison.
Those are Cryptic games and not PWE, until very recently. In many ways the same can be said for Neverwinter, as it was in development when Cryptic was under Atari. I haven't seen the PWE has drastically changed anything in the shops in STO and CO (though I think they were the ones who added lockboxes and keys).
Keep in mind that if this game is going to be completely free to play without a sub-option like STO and CO, then it will need to offer much, much more in the store to make up the missing revenue it would make from subs. For this reason and for the reason that I see things like classes and races for sale in these two games, I will not be surprised at all to see them for sale in NW. I won't even bat an eye at paying for them either, if I don't have to open lockboxes to unlock them.
EDIT: You are going to ask for the source of interveiw too aren't you? Dang! WHere is the trust in this world!!!!
I will see if I can find the youtube interview where they said that. Basically classes and content are free. Races - no info.
You'll have to blame it on my training as a historian, I simply like to see citations of sources
Pretty sure on the french interview I looked at it was said all content would be free and that cosmetics and mounts would be in the shop.
Tbh I would be surprised if they sold races and classes.
I guess it all just depends on how you define content. I mean one could take an approach that all items are content, since they exist in the game world and even if they only carry a visual they change the game world by adding variety. One could go to the other spectrum and say that only quests/missions are content and everything else is cosmetic.
I tend to fall some where in between. I see core classes as content and core races as content, but anything else is cosmetic. I also see that both races and classes are sold in other Cryptic games, so I'm willing to admit that Cryptic does not see these things as content, but options. I say all of this as someone who is an altaholic and will willing drop money on new classes and content in a game that is not charging me a subscription.
...This simply says that they haven't worked out everything, but that looking at CO and STO is a good way to see what might be sold, as I've suggested in all my threads. *note on this one I have changed the font color to show the distinction between the question and the answer.*
That is a incorrect.
That question was asked in context of time based currency to which the devs replied that they have added it to their games recently converted to f2p so this game is bound to have it too. It has now been confirmed as Astral diamond.
They have time and again said that this game is different than earlier games as this is being built from the grounds up as an f2p game.
Those are Cryptic games and not PWE, until very recently. In many ways the same can be said for Neverwinter, as it was in development when Cryptic was under Atari. I haven't seen the PWE has drastically changed anything in the shops in STO and CO (though I think they were the ones who added lockboxes and keys).
...
That is wrong. A lot has changed in STO and CO ever since they were made f2p. The content in CO is almost all free now as recently said in nterview by devs.
You'll have to blame it on my training as a historian, I simply like to see citations of sources
I am a scientist too and understand citation, but to dig up hundred of hours or interview just to proove my point on a discussion is a very useless exercise.
That is a incorrect.
That question was asked in context of time based currency to which the devs replied that they have added it to their games recently converted to f2p so this game is bound to have it too. It has now been confirmed as Astral diamond.
They have time and again said that this game is different than earlier games as this is being built from the grounds up as an f2p game.
Even if that is the case, there is nothing in the quote that suggests they won't be selling classes or races. The fact that it is being built as f2p from the ground up gives me more reason to believe that they will and honestly should sell classes and races. If it were sub-based game with a f2p option this would be different, but given that it is not (as far as we've been told) leads me to the decision that in order to create enough revenue they need to sell "big ticket items". Pets and outfits are not going to cut it.
I am a scientist too and understand citation, but to dig up hundred of hours or interview just to proove my point on a discussion is a very useless exercise.
No worries, I don't expect you too. I just haven't heard or seen where they've seen classes will be free.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
0
neowolfenMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 68
@neowolfen this is not STO or CO. Check the link in first post here for many of their comments you might have missed..
If you honestly think they wont use similar cstore practices as their other two games in this game or what they learned from those storesin this game you are deluding yourself in the extreme. Your making the classic mistake of confusing how you hope it will be, with how it is LIKELY to be.
We'd all love it to be ideal, but chances are it won't be it will follow the same suit as what has gone before.
Pricing Trends, Content etc..its all likely to be similar as relevant to the game.
p.s. I guess my beholder pet and mount will be expensive ...
Buy the Gas Spore mount, looks as good but pops at the slightest impact. But its likely to be cheaper lol
Ser Alathor Crownguard, Cwelenas Alenuath, Dwarin Stonefist, Danaerys Hellborn
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
edited November 2012
Having played STO and CO since they were in testing and witnessing the PWE acquisition I can safely say that the Cash Shops have drastically changed since PWE's acquisition of Cryptic. Whether it has changed for the better or for the worse, is a matter of opinion.
As well, it has been a common statement by Cryptic that NWO's F2P model will be different than STO and CO and the reasoning they give for this is because NWO is being designed as F2P from the ground-up, where-as STO and CO started as Subscriptions and went "Hybrid" F2P. They also said that now being a part of PWE is allowing them to see tons of F2P data to get a better idea of what will be better and what will not be good for NWO's Cash Shop.
Even if that is the case, there is nothing in the quote that suggests they won't be selling classes or races. The fact that it is being built as f2p from the ground up gives me more reason to believe that they will and honestly should sell classes and races. If it were sub-based game with a f2p option this would be different, but given that it is not (as far as we've been told) leads me to the decision that in order to create enough revenue they need to sell "big ticket items". Pets and outfits are not going to cut it.
I can only speculate about their marketing strategy, but have already said that classes and content would be free. They have not said anything about races, that is true.
Also, having said that there may be circumstances they may have to go back on their word to save the game. However, the reason they have given about having classes and content in the game free is very solid (as I explained in previous post).
If new classes bring new players, it would be stupid to create a barrier to them by making it pay class. [Because pay is a barrier to entry of new players]. Unlocking it might also be barrier to new players - so classes may be completely free and it makes sense that way.
Content - to be frank - I am not sure. They say it will always be free; but they also say it is to retain(or call back) old layers. So probably they can have some 'locks' on it which are removed by grinding some rare item or buying that rare item fromo shop. That way they can prolong the stay of old players. So I think, new content would be free and not available in shop. But it will be locked for all and they will make us play game to unlock it.
Races - devs have not revealed what new races bring back (devs were reading the data from PWE stat sheets on f2p). So I can't really say much. But PWE in its game PWI introduced the new races for free. So maybe it will be like a class to - zero barrier to try it.
One thing to note here is that they don't want your money - they want your time. It is like a supermarket with mllions of products on display. They won't charge you any entry fee. They will give you cookies for free too - just to have you inside their store for 10 more minutes to browse their products. That is their strategy. It is wise I think. And yes it may fail, but I think it will succeed as long as they have quality products displayed on shelves.
Thanks to Zeb:- A link for the fact that content keeps old players and new class brings new player
If you honestly think they wont use similar cstore practices as their other two games in this game or what they learned from those storesin this game you are deluding yourself in the extreme. Your making the classic mistake of confusing how you hope it will be, with how it is LIKELY to be.
We'd all love it to be ideal, but chances are it won't be it will follow the same suit as what has gone before.
Pricing Trends, Content etc..its all likely to be similar as relevant to the game.
Buy the Gas Spore mount, looks as good but pops at the slightest impact. But its likely to be cheaper lol
I am not here to talk about my preferences, hopes or delusions but the statements made by devs and what they are going to do. I am not an oracle here who can predict what can happen in future. Cryptic may decide not to launch NW tomorrow because it does not have cthululu but all that is severely off-topic and going personal as is your first pharagraph
We are talking here about statements of the devs and their business model. The buisness model is different from previous games. Infact the buisness model of previous games has even gone a major overhail after PWE came in. So your assumption that "it will follow the same suit" does not hold any precedence with this game's situation.
p.s. also I don't really understand gas-spore comment. I am only interested in beholder pet. Was it supposed to be sarcasm?
Having played STO and CO since they were in testing and witnessing the PWE acquisition I can safely say that the Cash Shops have drastically changed since PWE's acquisition of Cryptic. Whether it has changed for the better or for the worse, is a matter of opinion.
As well, it has been a common statement by Cryptic that NWO's F2P model will be different than STO and CO and the reasoning they give for this is because NWO is being designed as F2P from the ground-up, where-as STO and CO started as Subscriptions and went "Hybrid" F2P. They also said that now being a part of PWE is allowing them to see tons of F2P data to get a better idea of what will be better and what will not be good for NWO's Cash Shop.
As a Lifetimer on both games I didn't see huge changes, but I'll admit to not paying close to CO and taking a hiatus or two from STO when I hit content droughts.
I would much rather have to pay for things like races or classes, then have to deal with lockboxes or anything else that feels like I'm paying for nothing. At least when I drop $25 in STO for a ship I know what I'm getting. I'm far more likely to do that once every couple of months then pay for things that are more nebulous like lockboxes.
Things I'm fine paying for and price ranges:
Character slots $5-$10 for 5-10
Classes $5-$10
Races $3-$8
Mounts $5-$10
Outfits $3-$5
Improved potion packs $3-$5
Henchmen (customizable and persistent like STO BO's) $10-$15
Pets (non-combat) $5-$10
Pets (combat) $8-$12
I'm sure there are other things, but these are what I can think of.
One thing STO has, but not sold in the shops, not individually at least, are items with an "infinity" level rating. I would love to pick a sword, morning star or bow from the start of the game to the end that can level up with me. I'd love to do that with armor sets too. If I find a look I like, I love to have the option to keep it and not have to trade it out at high levels because the stats are obsolete. I would pay for this option if possible.
As a Lifetimer on both games I didn't see huge changes, but I'll admit to not paying close to CO and taking a hiatus or two from STO when I hit content droughts.
...
One thing STO has, but not sold in the shops, not individually at least, are items with an "infinity" level rating. I would love to pick a sword, morning star or bow from the start of the game to the end that can level up with me. I'd love to do that with armor sets too. If I find a look I like, I love to have the option to keep it and not have to trade it out at high levels because the stats are obsolete. I would pay for this option if possible.
I don't like star based or comic settings in game so i haven't played those two games a lot. I just checked them out a bit in last two years because of my curiosity of how NW would be (graphics, powers etc.).
What I said about CO and STO was from what cryptic guys have said and were not my opinions. Although I am aware of their basic buisness model after having played it a bit about a few months ago.
But I don't think I can call them f2p - they are more like hurriedly converted to f2p. When you convert a game to f2p you face many problems(like DDO). Many subscribers who had paid for something earlier will not like it becoming free just after they bought it. So you have to make compensations - and that is a big strain on f2p model.
I am sure they will certainly have slots and pets available in shop, even inventory bags - but not classes and content.
p.s. and levelling weapon is my wishlist too and I asked this question at MMORPG to cryptic. Lets hope they don't dodge it - it seems they have dumped all their points to DEX+INT.
One thing to note here is that they don't want your money - they want your time. It is like a supermarket with mllions of products on display. They won't charge you any entry fee. They will give you cookies for free too - just to have you inside their store for 10 more minutes to browse their products. That is their strategy. It is wise I think. And yes it may fail, but I think it will succeed as long as they have quality products displayed on shelves.
They only want my time because it makes them money. The more I play their game the more likely I am to spend money in their shop. Unless they plan to have in game advertising (which hasn't work for most games that have tried it), they are not going to make money from me simply playing.
A supermarket makes money off of me because they sell things I want. They have a wide variety of things for sale, some of them cheap and meaning less some of them expensive and more important. The market might give away cookie samples, but it doesn't send me home with a box of cookies for free. They want me to buy the cookies, hence the sample or at the very least spend more time shopping while I eat the cookie.
In the end they want to sell me things, so they need to make sure they have things I'm likely to buy otherwise I'll end up taking my business elsewhere. The game is a business, it will need revenue and they need to be realistic about what is going to get them revenue. I look at the shops in PWE games and the shops in Cryptic games and to me, and I think I'm fairly indicative of their target audience, I see more in the Cryptic shops I want to buy than I do in the PWE shops.
They only want my time because it makes them money. The more I play their game the more likely I am to spend money in their shop. ...
A supermarket makes money off of me because they sell things I want. They have a wide variety of things for sale, some of them cheap and meaning less some of them expensive and more important. The market might give away cookie samples, but it doesn't send me home with a box of cookies for free. They want me to buy the cookies, hence the sample or at the very least spend more time shopping while I eat the cookie.
In the end they want to sell me things, so they need to make sure they have things I'm likely to buy otherwise I'll end up taking my business elsewhere. The game is a business, it will need revenue and they need to be realistic about what is going to get them revenue. I look at the shops in PWE games and the shops in Cryptic games and to me, and I think I'm fairly indicative of their target audience, I see more in the Cryptic shops I want to buy than I do in the PWE shops.
First phara:- That is what exactly I meant. You got it! That is why they want our time. Just like a supermarket won't charge you an entry fee to come inside so that you have no barrier to come inside and buy stuff.
You got the gist of it, but they don't really want to sell you cookie. They want to give you a reason to visit again. If your each visit you buy 20 euro worth of stuff, and 20 cookies are worth 2 euros, it is an excellent way to get profit. Hence they give you cookie - to make you feel welcome.
I am not going to comment on if you are indicative of their target audience or not - that needs the statistics and its analysis. But the whole point is not to kill the goose which lays golden eggs but to millk the cow over time. That is the whole reason. Now with this knowledge, try to understand the buisness model in this post. Because that is the whole point of the post.
0
zebularMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 15,270Community Moderator
Thanks, I have seen this and specifically his discussion of STO's ships is what makes me think they will charge for classes and races. Now this is moderately old and maybe something has changed, but if he sees things like STO's ships in the NW shop then I see classes in the shop. Possibly different class builds, so we get Guardian Fighter for free, but to pay for Great Weapon Fighter. *shrug* just my take on things.
I guess it all just depends on how you define content. I mean one could take an approach that all items are content, since they exist in the game world and even if they only carry a visual they change the game world by adding variety. One could go to the other spectrum and say that only quests/missions are content and everything else is cosmetic.
I tend to fall some where in between. I see core classes as content and core races as content, but anything else is cosmetic. I also see that both races and classes are sold in other Cryptic games, so I'm willing to admit that Cryptic does not see these things as content, but options. I say all of this as someone who is an altaholic and will willing drop money on new classes and content in a game that is not charging me a subscription.
No you misunderstand I am pretty sure he said all content (and that he said that was all areas accessible in game and no locked classes etc) and that ONLY cosmetic, mounts and maybe a small xp section would be in the shop.
Comments
I have heard them say that about content, but I haven't heard that said about classes or races (which this thread is about). The thing is this game need a way to generate income if it is not going to have a sub-based option and the best way to do that is to charge for anything that can be seen as a customization like races. I'd rather be charged for a race then have them dropping lockboxes every where in an attempt to get me to spend money on something I don't want.
I think you misunderstand their statement. They said vanity and convinience items will in shop. Stromshade has already answered that it is not like vanity item will "ONLY" be available in shop. So for example, if pet is vanity item, there will be a few pets available for free too (check my sticky dev reply thread for that). Hence your assuming "Races" are vanity is incorrect.
What they can offer in shop is "Quick unlock" of a particular race or class. While others have to play a lot of content to unlock, you can probably skip it by just clicking a few buttons!
So if pets are vanity, you can probably have brown horse. But to get white horse, black horse, a spider pet etc. you will need to pay.
@neowolfen this is not STO or CO. Check the link in first post here for many of their comments you might have missed..
p.s. I guess my beholder pet and mount will be expensive ...
I can agree with that.
The only quotes I can find in regards to the shop say the following things.
and from your sticky:
But I don't know where this comes from, I don't see a link.
Just because they are not going to sell power doesn't mean they won't sell classes or races. Classes if designed correctly are not selling power or being p2w. Let's say the chose to sell Paragon Paths, a Warpriest is no more powerful than a Doomsguide, they are just different ways of playing a divine class (in this case Cleric).
Just because they are not going to sell power doesn't mean they won't sell classes or races. Classes if designed correctly are not selling power or being p2w. Let's say the chose to sell Paragon Paths, a Warpriest is no more powerful than a Doomsguide, they are just different ways of playing a divine class (in this case Cleric).[/QUOTE]
having clases as thing to pay for is one of worst posible f2p metod and one of lowest thing to go only 2 publishers go thet low soe and turbine whit ddo and lotor whit zone lockes even all mighty evil EA dont do go thet low and dont think thet PW wouldnt ever go thet low to
Bah, let's try to leave the clerics out of this, they have given us exactly zero information on the class and mentioning them just makes me anxious :P
I added the quote in previous post. As they have said they will sell cosmetic and convenience items.
Race and classes are not categorized as vanity as stats etc are different for them. Clothes, skinz, are categorized as vanity. Similarly a pet is categorized as vanity if it does not partakes in combat - otherwise it is not vanity. These are the current norms among the gaming media - I hope you will agree with it.
The reason I am agreeing that races can end up being paid (not classes) is because of the 'unlock' thingy. That way it will be categorized as 'convinience' not as vanity. Instead of levelling up at least one character to level 60, you can unlock genasi race by paying in shop.
Similarly paragon paths change your stats. Hence they cannot be categorized as vanity but can be categorized as convenience - if it is by unlocking.
They have already said that classes and content will not be in shop. That is a move to create balance in the game. They may not even be unlockable as a convenience item(as they cannot be regarded as one unlike race because of roles).
p.s. Also devs(specifically ss) has already said that NW is different from CO and STO as it is true f2p game build on that model from grounds up. Thus it will be different from them. So it is not my quote when I say STO and CO is not an example of how NW will be - if it turns untrue blame devs
Here you go: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?4786-Questions-for-StormShade-(devs)&p=93464&viewfull=1#post93464
Stormshade replied in green bold. Those are from the archived posts back before the merger, I can confirm they (posts 55 & 56 there-in) were posted by Stormshade never-the-less.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
You'd do better to look at other PWE games being developed RIGHT NOW for comparison.
They already said in interview that classes and content will not be payable. The classes added later will be free (nothing about races though). The reason defined was that free classes help bring new players to the game while new content helps bring old players back to game.
Hence it would be stupid to make classes paid. Content may have unlocking thing etc. as old players for whom the content is added should be able to unlock it and feel special as if the content is for them.
EDIT: You are going to ask for the source of interveiw too aren't you? Dang! WHere is the trust in this world!!!!
I will see if I can find the youtube interview where they said that. Basically classes and content are free. Races - no info.
This just says that some cosmetics will be earned in game and some through the store.
This just says that they won't be selling "power" items in the shop.
This simply says that they haven't worked out everything, but that looking at CO and STO is a good way to see what might be sold, as I've suggested in all my threads. *note on this one I have changed the font color to show the distinction between the question and the answer.*
Those are Cryptic games and not PWE, until very recently. In many ways the same can be said for Neverwinter, as it was in development when Cryptic was under Atari. I haven't seen the PWE has drastically changed anything in the shops in STO and CO (though I think they were the ones who added lockboxes and keys).
Keep in mind that if this game is going to be completely free to play without a sub-option like STO and CO, then it will need to offer much, much more in the store to make up the missing revenue it would make from subs. For this reason and for the reason that I see things like classes and races for sale in these two games, I will not be surprised at all to see them for sale in NW. I won't even bat an eye at paying for them either, if I don't have to open lockboxes to unlock them.
Tbh I would be surprised if they sold races and classes.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
You'll have to blame it on my training as a historian, I simply like to see citations of sources
I guess it all just depends on how you define content. I mean one could take an approach that all items are content, since they exist in the game world and even if they only carry a visual they change the game world by adding variety. One could go to the other spectrum and say that only quests/missions are content and everything else is cosmetic.
I tend to fall some where in between. I see core classes as content and core races as content, but anything else is cosmetic. I also see that both races and classes are sold in other Cryptic games, so I'm willing to admit that Cryptic does not see these things as content, but options. I say all of this as someone who is an altaholic and will willing drop money on new classes and content in a game that is not charging me a subscription.
That is a incorrect.
That question was asked in context of time based currency to which the devs replied that they have added it to their games recently converted to f2p so this game is bound to have it too. It has now been confirmed as Astral diamond.
They have time and again said that this game is different than earlier games as this is being built from the grounds up as an f2p game.
I am a scientist too and understand citation, but to dig up hundred of hours or interview just to proove my point on a discussion is a very useless exercise.
Even if that is the case, there is nothing in the quote that suggests they won't be selling classes or races. The fact that it is being built as f2p from the ground up gives me more reason to believe that they will and honestly should sell classes and races. If it were sub-based game with a f2p option this would be different, but given that it is not (as far as we've been told) leads me to the decision that in order to create enough revenue they need to sell "big ticket items". Pets and outfits are not going to cut it.
No worries, I don't expect you too. I just haven't heard or seen where they've seen classes will be free.
If you honestly think they wont use similar cstore practices as their other two games in this game or what they learned from those storesin this game you are deluding yourself in the extreme. Your making the classic mistake of confusing how you hope it will be, with how it is LIKELY to be.
We'd all love it to be ideal, but chances are it won't be it will follow the same suit as what has gone before.
Pricing Trends, Content etc..its all likely to be similar as relevant to the game.
Buy the Gas Spore mount, looks as good but pops at the slightest impact. But its likely to be cheaper lol
As well, it has been a common statement by Cryptic that NWO's F2P model will be different than STO and CO and the reasoning they give for this is because NWO is being designed as F2P from the ground-up, where-as STO and CO started as Subscriptions and went "Hybrid" F2P. They also said that now being a part of PWE is allowing them to see tons of F2P data to get a better idea of what will be better and what will not be good for NWO's Cash Shop.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I can only speculate about their marketing strategy, but have already said that classes and content would be free. They have not said anything about races, that is true.
Also, having said that there may be circumstances they may have to go back on their word to save the game. However, the reason they have given about having classes and content in the game free is very solid (as I explained in previous post).
If new classes bring new players, it would be stupid to create a barrier to them by making it pay class. [Because pay is a barrier to entry of new players]. Unlocking it might also be barrier to new players - so classes may be completely free and it makes sense that way.
Content - to be frank - I am not sure. They say it will always be free; but they also say it is to retain(or call back) old layers. So probably they can have some 'locks' on it which are removed by grinding some rare item or buying that rare item fromo shop. That way they can prolong the stay of old players. So I think, new content would be free and not available in shop. But it will be locked for all and they will make us play game to unlock it.
Races - devs have not revealed what new races bring back (devs were reading the data from PWE stat sheets on f2p). So I can't really say much. But PWE in its game PWI introduced the new races for free. So maybe it will be like a class to - zero barrier to try it.
One thing to note here is that they don't want your money - they want your time. It is like a supermarket with mllions of products on display. They won't charge you any entry fee. They will give you cookies for free too - just to have you inside their store for 10 more minutes to browse their products. That is their strategy. It is wise I think. And yes it may fail, but I think it will succeed as long as they have quality products displayed on shelves.
Thanks to Zeb:- A link for the fact that content keeps old players and new class brings new player
I am not here to talk about my preferences, hopes or delusions but the statements made by devs and what they are going to do. I am not an oracle here who can predict what can happen in future. Cryptic may decide not to launch NW tomorrow because it does not have cthululu but all that is severely off-topic and going personal as is your first pharagraph
We are talking here about statements of the devs and their business model. The buisness model is different from previous games. Infact the buisness model of previous games has even gone a major overhail after PWE came in. So your assumption that "it will follow the same suit" does not hold any precedence with this game's situation.
p.s. also I don't really understand gas-spore comment. I am only interested in beholder pet. Was it supposed to be sarcasm?
As a Lifetimer on both games I didn't see huge changes, but I'll admit to not paying close to CO and taking a hiatus or two from STO when I hit content droughts.
I would much rather have to pay for things like races or classes, then have to deal with lockboxes or anything else that feels like I'm paying for nothing. At least when I drop $25 in STO for a ship I know what I'm getting. I'm far more likely to do that once every couple of months then pay for things that are more nebulous like lockboxes.
Things I'm fine paying for and price ranges:
Character slots $5-$10 for 5-10
Classes $5-$10
Races $3-$8
Mounts $5-$10
Outfits $3-$5
Improved potion packs $3-$5
Henchmen (customizable and persistent like STO BO's) $10-$15
Pets (non-combat) $5-$10
Pets (combat) $8-$12
I'm sure there are other things, but these are what I can think of.
One thing STO has, but not sold in the shops, not individually at least, are items with an "infinity" level rating. I would love to pick a sword, morning star or bow from the start of the game to the end that can level up with me. I'd love to do that with armor sets too. If I find a look I like, I love to have the option to keep it and not have to trade it out at high levels because the stats are obsolete. I would pay for this option if possible.
I don't like star based or comic settings in game so i haven't played those two games a lot. I just checked them out a bit in last two years because of my curiosity of how NW would be (graphics, powers etc.).
What I said about CO and STO was from what cryptic guys have said and were not my opinions. Although I am aware of their basic buisness model after having played it a bit about a few months ago.
But I don't think I can call them f2p - they are more like hurriedly converted to f2p. When you convert a game to f2p you face many problems(like DDO). Many subscribers who had paid for something earlier will not like it becoming free just after they bought it. So you have to make compensations - and that is a big strain on f2p model.
I am sure they will certainly have slots and pets available in shop, even inventory bags - but not classes and content.
p.s. and levelling weapon is my wishlist too and I asked this question at MMORPG to cryptic. Lets hope they don't dodge it - it seems they have dumped all their points to DEX+INT.
They only want my time because it makes them money. The more I play their game the more likely I am to spend money in their shop. Unless they plan to have in game advertising (which hasn't work for most games that have tried it), they are not going to make money from me simply playing.
A supermarket makes money off of me because they sell things I want. They have a wide variety of things for sale, some of them cheap and meaning less some of them expensive and more important. The market might give away cookie samples, but it doesn't send me home with a box of cookies for free. They want me to buy the cookies, hence the sample or at the very least spend more time shopping while I eat the cookie.
In the end they want to sell me things, so they need to make sure they have things I'm likely to buy otherwise I'll end up taking my business elsewhere. The game is a business, it will need revenue and they need to be realistic about what is going to get them revenue. I look at the shops in PWE games and the shops in Cryptic games and to me, and I think I'm fairly indicative of their target audience, I see more in the Cryptic shops I want to buy than I do in the PWE shops.
First phara:- That is what exactly I meant. You got it! That is why they want our time. Just like a supermarket won't charge you an entry fee to come inside so that you have no barrier to come inside and buy stuff.
You got the gist of it, but they don't really want to sell you cookie. They want to give you a reason to visit again. If your each visit you buy 20 euro worth of stuff, and 20 cookies are worth 2 euros, it is an excellent way to get profit. Hence they give you cookie - to make you feel welcome.
I am not going to comment on if you are indicative of their target audience or not - that needs the statistics and its analysis. But the whole point is not to kill the goose which lays golden eggs but to millk the cow over time. That is the whole reason. Now with this knowledge, try to understand the buisness model in this post. Because that is the whole point of the post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=a5QFqtpWO1s#t=639s
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Thanks, I have seen this and specifically his discussion of STO's ships is what makes me think they will charge for classes and races. Now this is moderately old and maybe something has changed, but if he sees things like STO's ships in the NW shop then I see classes in the shop. Possibly different class builds, so we get Guardian Fighter for free, but to pay for Great Weapon Fighter. *shrug* just my take on things.
No you misunderstand I am pretty sure he said all content (and that he said that was all areas accessible in game and no locked classes etc) and that ONLY cosmetic, mounts and maybe a small xp section would be in the shop.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild