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raids and gear inflation.
neoquseio
Member Posts: 2 Arc User
I AM hopeing there are some very large raids with up to50 people or so it doesnt seem very epic when the toughest monsters there are can be killed by 6 people
not that i want every raid to require so many theres room for small raids... but have versions thatare a bit better loot but much harder please and i dont want huge increase in power uber weapons but maybe something that looks unique and someone cans ee and know what it is right off
I used to play everquest for about the first 2 years or so of my game time i was not in a raiding guild( mostly because of the prevelance of open raids)
and my gear was crappy yes but i didnt hate the ubers(well exzcept black company those trainy jerks) i desired to be one
And for the love of magic please Dont go crazy with gear inflation like everquest did after depths of darkhollow and copy and paste gear is so sad
just because the newest expansion comes out doesnt mean there should be a total obsolesence of former raid gear
id like to see top of the line raid gear be elite group equivelent for at the very least a year
This makes it easier for more casual guilds to form and stay together
not that i want every raid to require so many theres room for small raids... but have versions thatare a bit better loot but much harder please and i dont want huge increase in power uber weapons but maybe something that looks unique and someone cans ee and know what it is right off
I used to play everquest for about the first 2 years or so of my game time i was not in a raiding guild( mostly because of the prevelance of open raids)
and my gear was crappy yes but i didnt hate the ubers(well exzcept black company those trainy jerks) i desired to be one
And for the love of magic please Dont go crazy with gear inflation like everquest did after depths of darkhollow and copy and paste gear is so sad
just because the newest expansion comes out doesnt mean there should be a total obsolesence of former raid gear
id like to see top of the line raid gear be elite group equivelent for at the very least a year
This makes it easier for more casual guilds to form and stay together
Post edited by neoquseio on
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No, raids should stay the hell away from this game...
Also, as long as there is a properly designed binding system, gear inflation cannot exist...
Stats & Skills & Level should be what really matter, then equipment flavour. In that order. Throw the gods in there somewhere and that should be what defines a character's power.
I'm always impressed to hear about DM's that have five, six or more (even ten!) players in their active group at one time. To me, when groups get that large, focus can easily be lost - even by the best Dungeon Masters. The same applies to any MMO games I have seen with the "Raid Gear" frame of mind.
I would like Dungeons & Dragons to continue to focus on what really matters -- the player character, not their gear.
Even a naked archmage is something to be trifled with or any knowledged character for that matter.
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From what i see the game seems to be very enjoyable thru all the lvls till u reach lvl 60, each area have their own campaign, each campaign will have dungeon delves which "obligate" us to have a raid experience every certain lvls, ect.... But how about lvl 60 content ?? will cryptic continually release new campaigns for lvl 60 ? will we depend of user generation content to have something to do ?? Thats what im worry about.
I know we still have much to learn how the game will work but this is one of the things that make me like a game or not.
Agreed. Why reduce the options. Let raid be there. If you don't want to, feel free to skip the raids.
Also, I agree with Qumi that end-based content is not as enjoyable as reaching that level. The powers balance out and the character becomes unchanging which is a little boring. Rather than more end-game I would have more content in middle. And yes, once done all the quests, I too would rather make a new but different character and start again all the journey differently rather than grind for rare +11 sword.
Ah! I see that is what you meant. But aren't you forgetting foundry. They should allow the tools to make a raid (or they should make a few themselves) while we can make content ourselves for the realm which we like most (as we have already seen fans of planescape, shadarkai etc.
And yes, I am very excited about feywild too. I hope eldarin soon make it in... and their class specific paragons.
Also, raids are dangerous for party-based games. Since they are more powerful items in raids, normal parties may suffer. I've played a bit WoW and after hitting max level only raids still counted. Having raids would shift the paradigm of the game from parties to mobs of players.
Well I guess dungeon delves may include something like that, everyone else being AI while you fight your way through hundreds of undead to go for a special mission...
Crypric seemed to contradict itself though by in one interview saying that raids will be included after launch then referring to raids as dungeon delves in another interview at PAX. Dungeon delves should suffice as long as they're challenging, also having large scale raids might not mesh well with NWO gameplay style.
It would be nice though to have a setting of say a war where there are massive battles like say in Old Thay against the undead masses but the problem would be the engine limitation.
However the problem with raiding is the trend of gear grind, raiding is a minority favored feature and shouldn't be a focal point at the cost of other elements which there are so many elements in NWO right now that need attention more like classes, races, new adventure zones, new Foundry features/tilesets, exploration zones or branching out past Neverwinter like Icewind Dale. Raiding needs a severely dedicated team in order to keep up and could hurt the game more than help it.
With Cryptic having a tight rein on loot I don't think player made raids will go over well. People raid for the loot, they don't really care how enjoyable it is. Be an intresting project though to see how it turns out with player made raids but doubtful it would bode well.
As far as loot goes duos should give better than solo quest gear not vastly better but a bit better, three mans should be the same tier or equal to duo gear but with a better drop rate, five mans should give the best gear but only slightly better then duo/ three man gear. Another possiblity of loot in raids is special cosmetic stuff (supposing that the mechanics for these things make it into the game); special mounts (griffon, hippogriff, ect.), special cosmetic armor sets, or even housing decorations, or even special housing, say typically you can buy a house in a neighborhood you could get a token or redeemable item to upgrade your house appearance to a bigger house, mansion, or wizard tower (the tower would be awesome!) but my big point to this is instances should give better gear, though not with huge differences in the different tiers of gear, there are alternatives instead of offering better and better gear for end game they could give a chance at a Rare prize that has nothing to do with making your end game character more of a power house.
Neverwinter Thieves Guild
Some of u said raids only meant to be grinded for the loot... lol what u think will happen to delves ?? they will be grinded by everyone to get the top loot ingame so i think grind isnt an excuse to dont bring raids on.
Also i dont rly believe foundry will be enough to get us busy at end game, mostly coz we know the loot wont be that great (and i understand why).
And qumi0, not everyone like to made mew character everytime u reach the lvl cap, when i ussually play a MMO i only play with 1-2 character max.
With all the answer i saw till now just make me more worry about the end game..... I rly hope cryptic have something in mind for the end game
I am sorry, but I shall never be inclined to favor the "raid gear has to be the best gear" mentality. Nor do I feel that "raids" or "delves" should be "end game" material. I hope Neverwinter focuses, as I said before, on the Character and not just their gear. Do not get me wrong, I love magical items. I have been DMing Forgotten Realms for many years, so naturally I do love me some good magic items (especially sentient items that always seem to have an agenda of their own...). I'm just so annoyed/bored with the "raiding games" and all they "add" to a game.
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The instances will be exciting and more challenging and can be done in a ways with the storyline that it could be different every time, the main goal of the instance being take down big boss or whatnot, but the spawning of mobs could be at different points in the instance or something else to make it more flexible each time you do the instance.
They could put several different side quests to them, or different information to collect and you are only allowed to get so much info per run, so it must be ran again to obtain all the info or something to that effect. Things could be done to make them not a grind for gear group of instances.
All they have said about groups is - that games can be solo run but in a group, with teamplay, it would be easier. They have not said anything about rewards. I a not sure where they said it, perhaps they said it to pokket in PAX. Not sure but I will look up.
But regarding rewards, I have not come across which says anything about rewards being different for solo or group.
EDIT: He says dungeon may go faster with whole group of five. That is all. In new interview, they show that how everything can also be oloed. I believe what they showed was that difficulty remains same but with solo you have to dodge more making it take more time than group.
Yeah now your talkin, maze type dungeon where 2 groups (or more) can run from either end, fight monsters dodge traps and complete puzzles to accomplish one goal, then finish each other off to see who getz the Phat (PVP) Lewtz chest at the end, survivng party members each get an item.
Something as big as ToEE in size, what was that 10 lvls or sumthing i cant remember, maybe 6..................So long ago.
I think Cryptic can do better than the same model as every other MMO, they have an incredibly fun game if you believe the hands on interviews no need to WoWify it.
FOR SURE TOTALLY AGREE, but having those delves change from normal, to hard to elite mode, with not just the mosters getting double HP ,and hiting twice as hard, Make the randomisation better, rather then just doubling HP and attack dmge, throw more traps in, Mobs more monsters instead, ect, ect (if this type of coding can be done) ELite would be near impossible to get through.
Pokket asked Zeke on this and he borked on it, so we wont know for sure (im thinkin yes) as another mmo is doing this, but there dungeon lvl starts at lvl 30 right? being able to add content (foundry) i suppose could eliminate this need for hard/Elite modes, but as they are official game dungeons it would be nice.
There's also the question what consittutes "end game content" on a NWO game: the level 60 proposed cap or the future potential epic tier and its levels? Are we going to ask if this "raiding" is for said end game content, or for the posible future epic eng game content?
Assuming the traditional end game raid is used at all as one availability at level/future level cap.
Yup thats my concern as i already stated before, i definly dont want the wowish end game type for sure, but to be honest i also dont have an idea how it should be
Maybe its to earlier to think about end game since we dont have much info how the game will rly work... how hard is to lvl, how big are the campaings, ect....,etc....
I cant wait for info about the game (not only combat gameplay)
Yup thats my concern as i already stated before, i definly dont want the wowish end game type for sure, but to be honest i also dont have an idea how it should be
Maybe its to earlier to think about end game since we dont have much info how the game will rly work... how hard is to lvl, how big are the campaings, ect....,etc....
I cant wait for info about the game (not only combat gameplay)
Edit: We dont even know how loot will work, and for a lot of MMO players grabing items and making content its what matter at the end
I have no Idea How WoW endgame works, i could never get past the graphics on wow, tried a druid got to 10 and uninstalled so long ago.
SO now that we are God like at this stage, could we not 5man up and do like special ops infiltrations (ya i know this aint BF3, pack your LEET GEAR) into Orcus's lair and smack down some of his cronies, cull there numbers, come back with some PHAT DEMON LEWTS or is this CHEESEY wow endgame. I dunno just throwing it out there as ONE of the EPIC TIER Leveling options.
The endgame in WoW is all about raiding, raiding and raiding..... ofc u have more things to do but the major focus is always the same... raiding lol (is where u get the best loot ingame)
I actually enjoy a lot raiding in WoW but after sometime (IMO) they tend to became VERY REPETITIVE which at some point is not enjoyable anymore.
I hope cryptic dont chose that path, im not talking about raids coz neverwinter wont have them, in this case im talking about delves....I rly dont want to reach lvl 60 and all i will do is grinding delves to get my super loot (solo or party) ofc foundry can help but i honestly dont believe will be enough....
I rly dont have a clue how it should be, but i think if end game is well planned and enjoyable it will be a huge fwature that will bring a lot of players in, and not only D&D fans also MMO players.
Anyways, i will look forward to get more info about this matter which i think is important.
At the end of the day, campaigns aren't about getting loot, all the Forgotten Realms books aren't about getting loot. In fact, a large amount of the heroes start with the gear they end with- and it's almost never the case where they get their best weapons after beating their worst foe.
Make a game where the gameplay is addictive and fun- WoW has relied on a carrot on stick, and it has worked- but it's not working anymore as people are getting more and more options where the game is just enjoyable without needing the carrot- I mean, look at Battlefield, CoD, League of Legends, Starcraft- games with limited gear progression, that still manage to have people play them over and over and over.
Give progression besides gear- people like saving up points for things, like pets/mounts, like housing, titles, and decorations for housing/character options, cosmetics. All viable rewards that don't alter the actual gameplay that people are very happy to chase after- keeping the carrot but not having the 'you must raid' mentality. Achievements/trophies are another thing people go after.
Making crafting important also makes community important- though, a good crafting system is a hard one to get right.
I don't mind not seeing 'raids' as in, 10-40 people grouped up to kill things. I think public quests/dynamic events/rifts are a better type of 'large scale' activity anyway. I don't think they should be completely canned though- I think raids in the foundry should be makable- naturally, I imagine loot won't be as good for foundry dungeons (to prevent exploiting), but I think it could be interesting to see if people will do a raid without the gear.
In the end- D&D has always been about small groups, and multi part campaigns. If the game allows relatively easy dungeon creation and DMing- the foundry alone could carry the game for D&D fans.