As quests! Not as some stupid crafting skill that you have to level up by crafting tin daggers then bronze daggers then iron, steel, adamantium, etc. Lengthy, storyline driven quests are the only way to "craft" in D&D and have it fit the theme and style of what it is to play D&D.
As quests! Not as some stupid crafting skill that you have to level up by crafting tin daggers then bronze daggers then iron, steel, adamantium, etc. Lengthy, storyline driven quests are the only way to "craft" in D&D and have it fit the theme and style of what it is to play D&D.
Look the Developers are already taking leeway with certain D&D elements, so there is absolutely no reason why this could not be done. That being said there probably will not be any crafting since Jack hinted at that in a couple of his interviews.
They don't. Crafting is something the character / protagonist would do. Not the player or reader. It doesn't have HAMSTER to do with UI's or bathroom breaks or anything else. Or are you suggesting that we should add some kind of requirement for your character to defecate and urinate.
Uhm my PCs are both characters and (usually) protagonists. Just saying.
How many novels go into detail about where and when characters take a restroom break, repair their shoes, sew holes in tights, season their food, or any of the other mundane things that someone has to do day in and day out?
Some books are about how someone has to create or craft a certain item to do something, such as a mirror to facilitate travel between planes or a crown to make a statue into an avatar for a god/goddess. Do you assume that this person just knows how to make crowns or mirrors because he is an adventurer?
The ability to give static quest rewards would be nice, but I can see that being very problematic.
The socket idea? For the sake of all that is cute and fluffy, NO. That is a horrible idea.
Stories - Hmm, possible. Problem is how easy are they to read in game? Also generally speaking if someone wants to read fan fiction, they either go to the forums or some other site that specializes in such things.
Runes - Doesn't really feel right for D&D or Forgotten Realms. I'm not 100% up on 4E rules, but perhaps a Ritual power for the casters that could imbue an item for a time?
How many novels go into detail about where and when characters take a restroom break, repair their shoes, sew holes in tights, season their food, or any of the other mundane things that someone has to do day in and day out?
Some books are about how someone has to create or craft a certain item to do something, such as a mirror to facilitate travel between planes or a crown to make a statue into an avatar for a god/goddess. Do you assume that this person just knows how to make crowns or mirrors because he is an adventurer?
You'll get no argument from me. I was just using silly examples that fit into Jon's criteria of things that should be removed from the game to show that the logic was flawed.
I haven't looked at this post in two days and somehow my post mutated into a crafting debate!
Anyway! crafting would be absolutely useless in a D&D game and it doesn't belong!
My issue with the whole item wear thing is how do you get the player to buy different weapons and items throughout the course of the game so that they actually find a store usefull? What about all those nifty secondary skills that are going to waste?
Nothing would be more depressing than seeing everyone on the server running around with longswords!!!!!!!
I believe in 2nd edition what kind of weapon you could use was determined by what class you were so there was a need to have a variety of weapons in the store. I don't know anything about 4th edition but what little i have read about it suggests that you can use whatever you want no matter what class you are.
They should at least have it so if you fumble and roll a 1 that you should have a chance of losing or breaking your weapon!
Also i think the stores should have a different inventory everytime you visit it over a period of time to keep things interesting!
Exactly, as well as... Why do I need to go repeat the same instance to be able to use the weapon that I already earned from that instance? What happens when I level beyond that instance?
My +2 undead sword is essentially completely useless.
Yeesh, everyone wants to argue failure even before they can comprehend.
Anyhoo... It's NOT a weapon, its an enhancement you get to UTILIZE in the dungeon the player created it for. It can be used by ANY OTHER MODULE that wishes to use that UUID which is a unique identifier. It ties into the hidden slots presented in all "wearables" You can only earn this UUID from completing and getting that "LOOT" but other modules can share this enhancement if allowed... So for instance.. I can created 2 modules
1 is a village, and in this village I have a treasure box you can find a +2 brawling ring on. Then I can have another module dungeon of skeletons where you can go in and brawl them with the +2 because i programmed the module to utilize the +2 enhancement "IF" the player earned it.
Want to manage where to utilize it? Keep notes, perhaps you can find the info on the Creators website? or maybe some forums run by people who track awesome content.. But one has to manage nothing... But perhaps it creates an awesome ability to chain modules and some harder ones will be too hard unless some loot was FOUND! Wow what fun!!!
And, If you think that this is ridiculously datariffic, then I suggest you go download the free 2nd Life game client for just a laugh, and notice in game that every item and i do mean "EVERY" item in the game is player created and shareable, and one item may even consist of 5000 other items, all crafted by simple cubic tools. Each item has its own UUID so the database knows what it is. Now times that by its 6 year existence (guessing) and its hundreds of thousands of people who are creating items every day... And tell me some little RPG fanbase couldnt handle a few socket enhancements..
Now you talk about rookie coder.. Well, Im Retired coder. with over 15 years development and design experience. What I preach is not only simple, its achievable, I already know it will work, because I have studied the system and have been designing it for years, in my upcoming 'How to build a REAL MMO' website. So please, no more, "it wont work theories". You can hate it all you want, and you can argue all you want. But it'll work and it'll work well.
I dont know the word failure... You may have failed.. That is YOU
Yeesh, everyone wants to argue failure even before they can comprehend. <snip>
I already know it will work, because I have studied the system and have been designing it for years, in my upcoming 'How to build a REAL MMO' website. So please, no more, "it wont work theories". You can hate it all you want, and you can argue all you want. But it'll work and it'll work well.
I dont know the word failure... You may have failed.. That is YOU
And now to put my 'expertise' hat on. I teach game programming and design, in addition to working on my own ideas. It isn't a matter of technical expertise. It is a bad idea. A very bad idea. For Neverwinter at least. I could see such a system possibly working if the entire game was designed around it, but for something like Neverwinter it would be horrible.
With regards to the 15 years of programming thing and the claim that you know how to build a real mmo: First, programmer != game designer. Not saying there can't be overlap, but because you know how to architect an awesome game engine doesn't mean you know how to make a fun game. Also, don't claim to know how to make a real MMO when you haven't made one It generally causes people to roll their eyes at you.
Back to feature ideas: Perhaps temporary items for a module? Or module chains? So you could have in a module (or a linked set of modules) a quest to obtain a powerful artifact to fight something beyond your power, but at the end it gets stolen/taken/broke/whatever so it is clear to the player 'This is it. You don't get to use this anymore'. I think this would allow us to create custom, perhaps overpowered items that the player can use and have fun with. Still some issues with this, but hard to come up with enhancement ideas when we don't know very much *pokes Cryptic*
But NWN1&2 had various crafting systems and they where valuable parts of the game. People enjoy them.
Even back in my earliest D&D games (before most of you where born no doubt) I remember crafting and enchanting going on. Don't understand why people say it doesn't belong in D&D.
Not sure it NEEDS to be there, but I don't think its heretical to say it could be a good addition.
Depending on the depth of whatever PW environment between instanced adventures... it could fit in very well indeed. If this is just an action game with a bit of RP on it, never mind then.
In our worlds, we see players that hate "grinding" and want to spend most of their time role-playing. Crafting is ideal for them, it helps the social roleplay side of things.
You have to look at your target audience or in this case potential target audience. various crafting systems will work but if a designer takes the time to put one in they generally want people to use it. So the players will eventually have to use it to advance and keep up with their peer group. So what happens will be your powergamers, action players and hack/slash players will leave for greener pastures. your game will consist of heavy rp players and story players with very little room for the others.
A friend of mine Michelle Lange owned a server called Tales and Adventures. She had a very eliquent crafting system complete with things like mining, fishing and farming profiencies to create or extract the raw materials. there were a few people on her server that were heavily into Rp you know the kind of camp critters but no one came on and explored or moved around.
On my own pw we had a sort of crafting system. To do crafting the players charactor had to have that crafting within the storyline of their introduction story. Then Dm's could work with the pc to develop the crafting ablility. Sometimes the pc would fail on a roll sometimes they would suceed based on the Dm running the events perception of how far that pc had worked on their skill.
The end result of such a simple system was that it kept the hack/slash powergamers from feeling the server was too heavily geared to rp. In fact often the powergamers and hack/slashers would go to the rp pc that had a certain skill and paid them to try to make things for them with a dm running it . Usually everyone had fun. The only downside was I had to personally check the server log to make sure no metagaming or anything funny was going on. if it did I corrected it.
The whole moral to this is Cryptic wants a general audience. If they do put a crafting system in they are going to have to be extremely careful not to drive many of their audience away with a complex crafting system that you will need to use to advance to the level you want to advance in. Sometimes an idea focuses on a small part of the audience and if the idea disrupts the rest of the audience then its a bad idea.
I don't care what you call your tokens. Players still have to manage them in order to know what they have at their disposal, and you have YET to address that issue effectively. If they don't have any method to track them efficiently, they may as well not have anything. And you suggest for them to take notes? Really? That's your whiz-bang idea for a player to manage all the tokens with all the modules he visited? I guess that the power of computers and experienced programming falls a bit short when addressing the actual people who play the game.
Let's do a little math, shall we...
A player has 15 equipment slots. He visits 10 modules, gathering your tokens along the way. That is up to 150 tokens.
20 modules = 300 tokens.
50 modules = 750 tokens.
You see where this is heading? This doesn't even take into account quest items, consumables, tokens on other equipment in their inventory. That number gets huge, real fast. Now, that player may have 2, 5, 10 characters. You want him to have stacks of notebooks next to his desk? "Hmmmmm. Which character had the +2 fire long sword (excuse me, +2 fire token for my long sword, because that is much more understandable to the player) and for which module?"
On top of that, it doesn't matter if there is a token or not a token to the player. He has to know what is in that slot for each module whether it is empty or not.
I am sorry that your obvious brilliance in the field will not apply here, but it will not work for Neverwinter.
So yes, please respond again with how I don't understand, and tell me more about the server's ability to handle such complex data management. Because that means oh, so much, every time you repeat the same thing over and over again, while continuing to fail to address the point that really matters: the players.
I don't care what you call your tokens. Players still have to manage them in order to know what they have at their disposal, and you have YET to address that issue effectively. If they don't have any method to track them efficiently, they may as well not have anything. And you suggest for them to take notes? Really? That's your whiz-bang idea for a player to manage all the tokens with all the modules he visited? I guess that the power of computers and experienced programming falls a bit short when addressing the actual people who play the game.
Let's do a little math, shall we...
A player has 15 equipment slots. He visits 10 modules, gathering your tokens along the way. That is up to 150 tokens.
20 modules = 300 tokens.
50 modules = 750 tokens.
You see where this is heading? This doesn't even take into account quest items, consumables, tokens on other equipment in their inventory. That number gets huge, real fast. Now, that player may have 2, 5, 10 characters. You want him to have stacks of notebooks next to his desk? "Hmmmmm. Which character had the +2 fire long sword (excuse me, +2 fire token for my long sword, because that is much more understandable to the player) and for which module?"
On top of that, it doesn't matter if there is a token or not a token to the player. He has to know what is in that slot for each module whether it is empty or not.
I am sorry that your obvious brilliance in the field will not apply here, but it will not work for Neverwinter.
So yes, please respond again with how I don't understand, and tell me more about the server's ability to handle such complex data management. Because that means oh, so much, every time you repeat the same thing over and over again, while failing to address the point that really matters: the players.
Have you ever tried managing the your inventory in an Ultima game.:D
You have to look at your target audience or in this case potential target audience. various crafting systems will work but if a designer takes the time to put one in they generally want people to use it. So the players will eventually have to use it to advance and keep up with their peer group. So what happens will be your powergamers, action players and hack/slash players will leave for greener pastures. your game will consist of heavy rp players and story players with very little room for the others.
A friend of mine Michelle Lange owned a server called Tales and Adventures. She had a very eliquent crafting system complete with things like mining, fishing and farming profiencies to create or extract the raw materials. there were a few people on her server that were heavily into Rp you know the kind of camp critters but no one came on and explored or moved around.
On my own pw we had a sort of crafting system. To do crafting the players charactor had to have that crafting within the storyline of their introduction story. Then Dm's could work with the pc to develop the crafting ablility. Sometimes the pc would fail on a roll sometimes they would suceed based on the Dm running the events perception of how far that pc had worked on their skill.
The end result of such a simple system was that it kept the hack/slash powergamers from feeling the server was too heavily geared to rp. In fact often the powergamers and hack/slashers would go to the rp pc that had a certain skill and paid them to try to make things for them with a dm running it . Usually everyone had fun. The only downside was I had to personally check the server log to make sure no metagaming or anything funny was going on. if it did I corrected it.
The whole moral to this is Cryptic wants a general audience. If they do put a crafting system in they are going to have to be extremely careful not to drive many of their audience away with a complex crafting system that you will need to use to advance to the level you want to advance in. Sometimes an idea focuses on a small part of the audience and if the idea disrupts the rest of the audience then its a bad idea.
Hrmm you seem to conclude that all crafting is bad because crafting centric setups on other servers didn't work for people that don't like crafting.
I would agree with you that I don't think a crafting centric implementation is a good idea, here. Shouldn't need to smelt your own ore and mold it into a key to get to the important stuff. Crafting on the side however... could work out quite nicely.
Bard's Tale was pretty hideous for inventory back then, too.
Definitely single player(the one that sticks out in my head was Ultima 7, Part 2: Serpent Isle; a most notorious game for inventory management especially since you had to keep track off all the Serpent Armour in order to complete the game).
Well I didnt mean to say all crafting was bad. I meant to say that before you develop a crafting system you have to first look at your target audience. In some cases it will work In other cases it wont depending on the complexity of the system you develop and its use in the game.
Definitely single player(the one that sticks out in my head was Ultima 7, Part 2: Serpent Isle; a most notorious game for inventory management especially since you had to keep track off all the Serpent Armour in order to complete the game).
LOL, if that was the one with the bags and boxes you actually filled up, then yes, I remember. You could stack HAMSTER on top of other items, essentially hiding things you may have needed and easily overlook things.
Ok possible innovation. Ambient area effect damage. Have you ever been in a video game where your in the middle of the artic, in a series of lava tubes in an active volcano, swimming though an acid pool to get to that black dragon, and taken no damage for the ambient setting around you. If you walk into an area of scortched earth and flowing lava I would expect to take some heat damage without protection or in the artic cold damage. A simple script based on a damage 2da can correct this so you can plug in area ambient damage with an include.
I think this would be a wonderful addition to any game. Here's an example script based on that idea.
void AmbientDamage(object oPC, object oArea);
void DoDamage(object oPC, object oArea, int iDie, int iCount, int iType, int iFortDC, float fDelay)
{
// check again for PC in the area in case the PC has left
// during the delay
if (GetArea(oPC) != oArea)
return;
// Determine the amount of damage by converting iDie into the
// appropriate d#() function
int iDamage;
if (iDie <= 2)
iDamage = d2(iCount);
else if (iDie == 3)
iDamage = d3(iCount);
else if (iDie < 6)
iDamage = d4(iCount);
else if (iDie < 8)
iDamage = d6(iCount);
else if (iDie < 10)
iDamage = d8(iCount);
else if (iDie < 12)
iDamage = d10(iCount);
else if (iDie < 20)
iDamage = d12(iCount);
else if (iDie < 100)
iDamage = d20(iCount);
else // if iDie >= 100
iDamage = d100(iCount);
// run the fort save, if they fail, do damage
if (!FortitudeSave(oPC, iFortDC, SAVING_THROW_TYPE_NONE, oPC))
{
effect eDamage = EffectDamage(iDamage, iType);
ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_INSTANT, eDamage,oPC);
}
DelayCommand(fDelay, DoDamage(oPC, oArea, iDie, iCount, iType, iFortDC, fDelay));
}
void AmbientDamage(object oPC, object oArea)
{
// only do damage to creatures in the area, exclude DM avatars
if (GetArea(oPC) != oArea || GetIsDM(oPC))
return;
int iDie = GetLocalInt(oArea, "iDie");
int iCount = GetLocalInt(oArea, "iCount");
int iType = GetLocalInt(oArea, "iDamageType");
int iFortDC = GetLocalInt(oArea, "iFortDC");
float fDelay = GetLocalFloat(oArea, "fHB_Time");
// if no damage type or amount is set, exit
if (iDie == 0 || iType == 0)
return;
// set default values for iCount, iFortDC and iHB_Time if they are unset
if (iCount <= 0)
iCount = 1;
if (iFortDC <= 0)
iFortDC = 10;
if (fDelay <= 0.5)
fDelay = 10.0;
DoDamage(oPC, oArea, iDie, iCount, iType, iFortDC, fDelay);
}
Well I didnt mean to say all crafting was bad. I meant to say that before you develop a crafting system you have to first look at your target audience. In some cases it will work In other cases it wont depending on the complexity of the system you develop and its use in the game.
If D&D's skill system was more robust (I definitely feel it needs to be), I would be on board with crafting. The only thing that worries me is that it would wind up feeling like it doesn't belong. Maybe there is an answer somewhere within skill challenges... really, really, hidden.
Ambient area effect damage.
4E does have terrain and effects of terrain. I am not sure if Cryptic has plans on this or not. They work much like traps, and their implementation is actually quite ingenious.
But yeah, it's a neat idea.. We had that in our PW, as well as wild and dead magic zones.
Please...don't put i in front of everything that's an int just because it is an int. That is a coding style that someone took completely out of context from Microsoft. About the only time that would really be necessary is if you are using a lose-typed language like JavaScript that is quite happy to switch data types on the same variable. The intent of that coding style was to mark different uses of the same data type. Take vectors for example. You have unit vectors with a length of one, and non-unit vectors that, well, don't. Generally speaking you don't want to mix the two. So in that case you might put a 'u' in front of all unit vector variables. The point of this being is helps find errors. If you see 'uDirectionToPlayer = playerLocation - enemyLocation' you know you have a problem, because you're assigning a non-unit vector to a unit vector. Putting an i front of all ints tells you nothing. It's an int, a quick lookup on the variable's declaration tells me that. Or a mouse-over in a good IDE. Or the compile error/warning I get when I try an assignment it doesn't like. What I'm trying to get at is that coding style should help tell you when something is wrong/suspicious just by looking at it.
Er, and sorry about the lecture, it's just that seeing that code style raises my hackles.
If D&D's skill system was more robust (I definitely feel it needs to be), I would be on board with crafting. The only thing that worries me is that it would wind up feeling like it doesn't belong. Maybe there is an answer somewhere within skill challenges... really, really, hidden.
TO be honest I do not believe you have anything to fear; Jack does not like crafting and has mentioned in several interviews that he really does not plan on putting it in this game(to be honest that is only a good thing since neither STO nor CO have a decent crafting system).
I'll admit im a gorilla coder. the system was the one I was taught by someone else and it works for me so i can pick out my variables easily when i referance and modify scripts. with variables starting i,f,s i can easily pick out what I want unless its something like a 15,000 line include for an AI system.
The crafting idea wasn't just to include crafting, it was to allow players to have gear (weapons and armor) that they could customize, and make their appearance more or less unique so that all 15th level fighters don't all end up looking exactly the same with their armor and helmets.
It was an idea on how Cryptic can expand their portfolio to show that they can impliment a complicated and deep gear system into their engine.
At no point did I say that anything crafted from this system couldn't be purchased from an NPC with a generic look. This was an idea to give the players the ability to further the way Cryptic allows customization, but do it beyond character generation, and provide it as a viable option throught the character's lifespan and progression.
As for the token/module idea...
Yes, we know computers could track it. That was never the issue. The issue is, how would a player remember that his longsword glows green and is +2 to undead in YOUR module, but +1 and has fire on it on another module, or worse, that it is two completely different swords that he has no idea which one is which while he isn't in one of the modules!?
It would make much more sense, and as a bonus, be much more simple, if the gear you get in one module, works the same way in all modules, and the only way to ensure that is to have unified and universal loot tables based upon prefabricated encounters. This is the way the foundry can produce content that can be carried between modules, and consequently, the player knows exactly what they have at all times.
The crafting idea wasn't just to include crafting, it was to allow players to have gear (weapons and armor) that they could customize, and make their appearance more or less unique so that all 15th level fighters don't all end up looking exactly the same with their armor and helmets.
It was an idea on how Cryptic can expand their portfolio to show that they can impliment a complicated and deep gear system into their engine.
At no point did I say that anything crafted from this system couldn't be purchased from an NPC with a generic look. This was an idea to give the players the ability to further the way Cryptic allows customization, but do it beyond character generation, and provide it as a viable option throught the character's lifespan and progression.
As for the token/module idea...
Yes, we know computers could track it. That was never the issue. The issue is, how would a player remember that his longsword glows green and is +2 to undead in YOUR module, but +1 and has fire on it on another module, or worse, that it is two completely different swords that he has no idea which one is which while he isn't in one of the modules!?
It would make much more sense, and as a bonus, be much more simple, if the gear you get in one module, works the same way in all modules, and the only way to ensure that is to have unified and universal loot tables based upon prefabricated encounters. This is the way the foundry can produce content that can be carried between modules, and consequently, the player knows exactly what they have at all times.
Traditionally Cryptic has never tied gear with appearance(for the exception of STO which has Kits and Body Armour both can have their visuals disabled). One idea would be to do gear like DC Universe Online does it. In that game you start with a base costume as you gain gear it changes your appearance as normal, but you can also keep your normal appearance or a mish mash of gear appearances and still keep the gears values.
Traditionally Cryptic has never tied gear with appearance(for the exception of STO which has Kits and Body Armour both can have their visuals disabled). One idea would be to do gear like DC Universe Online does it. In that game you start with a base costume as you gain gear it changes your appearance as normal, but you can also keep your normal appearance or a mish mash of gear appearances and still keep the gears values.
How do you explain that in dungeons and dragons though? How is my character wearing platemail, but looks like he is wearing padded leather?
I'd rather the gear didn't have a toggle appearance switch, and instead, the gear itself was customizable but still recognizable as a certain type.
I'd rather the gear didn't have a toggle appearance switch, and instead, the gear itself was customizable but still recognizable as a certain type.
This might actually be what happens, although this would be completely different from anything Cryptic has done with gear so far(honestly gear has never been their strong suit).
I think what Presbytier is trying to say is that you dont have to combine a customization system with a crafting system.
There are many multi player games that say offer npc shops where you can pay to have your armor customized. Having stores like that is important in games for the game designers. It has pcs pay for things like customization to keep them relatively poor. Game designers want that because it keeps the pc hungary enough to go out and explore more to get more gold to pay for better equipment and customization.
A very good question for which I have no answer.;)
This might actually be what happens, although this would be completely different from anything Cryptic has done with gear so far(honestly gear has never been their strong suit).
I know Presbytier, that's why I think they NEED to do this, to prove they can, and what better project than this one, in which historically, gear has played an important part?
If not sliders, then give us options like the diffuse or texture options on their other games when we buy (or craft?) or obtain gear so that we can manage how our characters look, while also having a deeper pool of items for us to use, and I don't mean like on CO where you have 5million items that are <insert name here>'s <insert name of object here> of <insert modifier like 'darkness' or 'strength'>. We need 4 or 5 styles of each type of item in the game, with different looks, but the same stats, so a longsword can act like a longsword, but look different from the next longsword.
Comments
As quests! Not as some stupid crafting skill that you have to level up by crafting tin daggers then bronze daggers then iron, steel, adamantium, etc. Lengthy, storyline driven quests are the only way to "craft" in D&D and have it fit the theme and style of what it is to play D&D.
Look the Developers are already taking leeway with certain D&D elements, so there is absolutely no reason why this could not be done. That being said there probably will not be any crafting since Jack hinted at that in a couple of his interviews.
Uhm my PCs are both characters and (usually) protagonists. Just saying.
- Bar
Some books are about how someone has to create or craft a certain item to do something, such as a mirror to facilitate travel between planes or a crown to make a statue into an avatar for a god/goddess. Do you assume that this person just knows how to make crowns or mirrors because he is an adventurer?
The ability to give static quest rewards would be nice, but I can see that being very problematic.
The socket idea? For the sake of all that is cute and fluffy, NO. That is a horrible idea.
Stories - Hmm, possible. Problem is how easy are they to read in game? Also generally speaking if someone wants to read fan fiction, they either go to the forums or some other site that specializes in such things.
Runes - Doesn't really feel right for D&D or Forgotten Realms. I'm not 100% up on 4E rules, but perhaps a Ritual power for the casters that could imbue an item for a time?
I haven't looked at this post in two days and somehow my post mutated into a crafting debate!
Anyway! crafting would be absolutely useless in a D&D game and it doesn't belong!
My issue with the whole item wear thing is how do you get the player to buy different weapons and items throughout the course of the game so that they actually find a store usefull? What about all those nifty secondary skills that are going to waste?
Nothing would be more depressing than seeing everyone on the server running around with longswords!!!!!!!
I believe in 2nd edition what kind of weapon you could use was determined by what class you were so there was a need to have a variety of weapons in the store. I don't know anything about 4th edition but what little i have read about it suggests that you can use whatever you want no matter what class you are.
They should at least have it so if you fumble and roll a 1 that you should have a chance of losing or breaking your weapon!
Also i think the stores should have a different inventory everytime you visit it over a period of time to keep things interesting!
Yeesh, everyone wants to argue failure even before they can comprehend.
Anyhoo... It's NOT a weapon, its an enhancement you get to UTILIZE in the dungeon the player created it for. It can be used by ANY OTHER MODULE that wishes to use that UUID which is a unique identifier. It ties into the hidden slots presented in all "wearables" You can only earn this UUID from completing and getting that "LOOT" but other modules can share this enhancement if allowed... So for instance.. I can created 2 modules
1 is a village, and in this village I have a treasure box you can find a +2 brawling ring on. Then I can have another module dungeon of skeletons where you can go in and brawl them with the +2 because i programmed the module to utilize the +2 enhancement "IF" the player earned it.
Want to manage where to utilize it? Keep notes, perhaps you can find the info on the Creators website? or maybe some forums run by people who track awesome content.. But one has to manage nothing... But perhaps it creates an awesome ability to chain modules and some harder ones will be too hard unless some loot was FOUND! Wow what fun!!!
And, If you think that this is ridiculously datariffic, then I suggest you go download the free 2nd Life game client for just a laugh, and notice in game that every item and i do mean "EVERY" item in the game is player created and shareable, and one item may even consist of 5000 other items, all crafted by simple cubic tools. Each item has its own UUID so the database knows what it is. Now times that by its 6 year existence (guessing) and its hundreds of thousands of people who are creating items every day... And tell me some little RPG fanbase couldnt handle a few socket enhancements..
Now you talk about rookie coder.. Well, Im Retired coder. with over 15 years development and design experience. What I preach is not only simple, its achievable, I already know it will work, because I have studied the system and have been designing it for years, in my upcoming 'How to build a REAL MMO' website. So please, no more, "it wont work theories". You can hate it all you want, and you can argue all you want. But it'll work and it'll work well.
I dont know the word failure... You may have failed.. That is YOU
And now to put my 'expertise' hat on. I teach game programming and design, in addition to working on my own ideas. It isn't a matter of technical expertise. It is a bad idea. A very bad idea. For Neverwinter at least. I could see such a system possibly working if the entire game was designed around it, but for something like Neverwinter it would be horrible.
With regards to the 15 years of programming thing and the claim that you know how to build a real mmo: First, programmer != game designer. Not saying there can't be overlap, but because you know how to architect an awesome game engine doesn't mean you know how to make a fun game. Also, don't claim to know how to make a real MMO when you haven't made one
Back to feature ideas: Perhaps temporary items for a module? Or module chains? So you could have in a module (or a linked set of modules) a quest to obtain a powerful artifact to fight something beyond your power, but at the end it gets stolen/taken/broke/whatever so it is clear to the player 'This is it. You don't get to use this anymore'. I think this would allow us to create custom, perhaps overpowered items that the player can use and have fun with. Still some issues with this, but hard to come up with enhancement ideas when we don't know very much *pokes Cryptic*
But NWN1&2 had various crafting systems and they where valuable parts of the game. People enjoy them.
Even back in my earliest D&D games (before most of you where born no doubt) I remember crafting and enchanting going on. Don't understand why people say it doesn't belong in D&D.
Not sure it NEEDS to be there, but I don't think its heretical to say it could be a good addition.
Depending on the depth of whatever PW environment between instanced adventures... it could fit in very well indeed. If this is just an action game with a bit of RP on it, never mind then.
In our worlds, we see players that hate "grinding" and want to spend most of their time role-playing. Crafting is ideal for them, it helps the social roleplay side of things.
- Bar
A friend of mine Michelle Lange owned a server called Tales and Adventures. She had a very eliquent crafting system complete with things like mining, fishing and farming profiencies to create or extract the raw materials. there were a few people on her server that were heavily into Rp you know the kind of camp critters but no one came on and explored or moved around.
On my own pw we had a sort of crafting system. To do crafting the players charactor had to have that crafting within the storyline of their introduction story. Then Dm's could work with the pc to develop the crafting ablility. Sometimes the pc would fail on a roll sometimes they would suceed based on the Dm running the events perception of how far that pc had worked on their skill.
The end result of such a simple system was that it kept the hack/slash powergamers from feeling the server was too heavily geared to rp. In fact often the powergamers and hack/slashers would go to the rp pc that had a certain skill and paid them to try to make things for them with a dm running it . Usually everyone had fun. The only downside was I had to personally check the server log to make sure no metagaming or anything funny was going on. if it did I corrected it.
The whole moral to this is Cryptic wants a general audience. If they do put a crafting system in they are going to have to be extremely careful not to drive many of their audience away with a complex crafting system that you will need to use to advance to the level you want to advance in. Sometimes an idea focuses on a small part of the audience and if the idea disrupts the rest of the audience then its a bad idea.
Let's do a little math, shall we...
A player has 15 equipment slots. He visits 10 modules, gathering your tokens along the way. That is up to 150 tokens.
20 modules = 300 tokens.
50 modules = 750 tokens.
You see where this is heading? This doesn't even take into account quest items, consumables, tokens on other equipment in their inventory. That number gets huge, real fast. Now, that player may have 2, 5, 10 characters. You want him to have stacks of notebooks next to his desk? "Hmmmmm. Which character had the +2 fire long sword (excuse me, +2 fire token for my long sword, because that is much more understandable to the player) and for which module?"
On top of that, it doesn't matter if there is a token or not a token to the player. He has to know what is in that slot for each module whether it is empty or not.
I am sorry that your obvious brilliance in the field will not apply here, but it will not work for Neverwinter.
So yes, please respond again with how I don't understand, and tell me more about the server's ability to handle such complex data management. Because that means oh, so much, every time you repeat the same thing over and over again, while continuing to fail to address the point that really matters: the players.
Edit: Gemstrike gets where I am coming from.
Have you ever tried managing the your inventory in an Ultima game.:D
Hrmm you seem to conclude that all crafting is bad because crafting centric setups on other servers didn't work for people that don't like crafting.
I would agree with you that I don't think a crafting centric implementation is a good idea, here. Shouldn't need to smelt your own ore and mold it into a key to get to the important stuff. Crafting on the side however... could work out quite nicely.
- Bar
Bard's Tale was pretty hideous for inventory back then, too.
Definitely single player(the one that sticks out in my head was Ultima 7, Part 2: Serpent Isle; a most notorious game for inventory management especially since you had to keep track off all the Serpent Armour in order to complete the game).
I think this would be a wonderful addition to any game. Here's an example script based on that idea.
void AmbientDamage(object oPC, object oArea); void DoDamage(object oPC, object oArea, int iDie, int iCount, int iType, int iFortDC, float fDelay) { // check again for PC in the area in case the PC has left // during the delay if (GetArea(oPC) != oArea) return; // Determine the amount of damage by converting iDie into the // appropriate d#() function int iDamage; if (iDie <= 2) iDamage = d2(iCount); else if (iDie == 3) iDamage = d3(iCount); else if (iDie < 6) iDamage = d4(iCount); else if (iDie < 8) iDamage = d6(iCount); else if (iDie < 10) iDamage = d8(iCount); else if (iDie < 12) iDamage = d10(iCount); else if (iDie < 20) iDamage = d12(iCount); else if (iDie < 100) iDamage = d20(iCount); else // if iDie >= 100 iDamage = d100(iCount); // run the fort save, if they fail, do damage if (!FortitudeSave(oPC, iFortDC, SAVING_THROW_TYPE_NONE, oPC)) { effect eDamage = EffectDamage(iDamage, iType); ApplyEffectToObject(DURATION_TYPE_INSTANT, eDamage,oPC); } DelayCommand(fDelay, DoDamage(oPC, oArea, iDie, iCount, iType, iFortDC, fDelay)); } void AmbientDamage(object oPC, object oArea) { // only do damage to creatures in the area, exclude DM avatars if (GetArea(oPC) != oArea || GetIsDM(oPC)) return; int iDie = GetLocalInt(oArea, "iDie"); int iCount = GetLocalInt(oArea, "iCount"); int iType = GetLocalInt(oArea, "iDamageType"); int iFortDC = GetLocalInt(oArea, "iFortDC"); float fDelay = GetLocalFloat(oArea, "fHB_Time"); // if no damage type or amount is set, exit if (iDie == 0 || iType == 0) return; // set default values for iCount, iFortDC and iHB_Time if they are unset if (iCount <= 0) iCount = 1; if (iFortDC <= 0) iFortDC = 10; if (fDelay <= 0.5) fDelay = 10.0; DoDamage(oPC, oArea, iDie, iCount, iType, iFortDC, fDelay); }4E does have terrain and effects of terrain. I am not sure if Cryptic has plans on this or not. They work much like traps, and their implementation is actually quite ingenious.
But yeah, it's a neat idea.. We had that in our PW, as well as wild and dead magic zones.
Er, and sorry about the lecture, it's just that seeing that code style raises my hackles.
TO be honest I do not believe you have anything to fear; Jack does not like crafting and has mentioned in several interviews that he really does not plan on putting it in this game(to be honest that is only a good thing since neither STO nor CO have a decent crafting system).
It was an idea on how Cryptic can expand their portfolio to show that they can impliment a complicated and deep gear system into their engine.
At no point did I say that anything crafted from this system couldn't be purchased from an NPC with a generic look. This was an idea to give the players the ability to further the way Cryptic allows customization, but do it beyond character generation, and provide it as a viable option throught the character's lifespan and progression.
As for the token/module idea...
Yes, we know computers could track it. That was never the issue. The issue is, how would a player remember that his longsword glows green and is +2 to undead in YOUR module, but +1 and has fire on it on another module, or worse, that it is two completely different swords that he has no idea which one is which while he isn't in one of the modules!?
It would make much more sense, and as a bonus, be much more simple, if the gear you get in one module, works the same way in all modules, and the only way to ensure that is to have unified and universal loot tables based upon prefabricated encounters. This is the way the foundry can produce content that can be carried between modules, and consequently, the player knows exactly what they have at all times.
Traditionally Cryptic has never tied gear with appearance(for the exception of STO which has Kits and Body Armour both can have their visuals disabled). One idea would be to do gear like DC Universe Online does it. In that game you start with a base costume as you gain gear it changes your appearance as normal, but you can also keep your normal appearance or a mish mash of gear appearances and still keep the gears values.
How do you explain that in dungeons and dragons though? How is my character wearing platemail, but looks like he is wearing padded leather?
I'd rather the gear didn't have a toggle appearance switch, and instead, the gear itself was customizable but still recognizable as a certain type.
This might actually be what happens, although this would be completely different from anything Cryptic has done with gear so far(honestly gear has never been their strong suit).
There are many multi player games that say offer npc shops where you can pay to have your armor customized. Having stores like that is important in games for the game designers. It has pcs pay for things like customization to keep them relatively poor. Game designers want that because it keeps the pc hungary enough to go out and explore more to get more gold to pay for better equipment and customization.
I know Presbytier, that's why I think they NEED to do this, to prove they can, and what better project than this one, in which historically, gear has played an important part?
If not sliders, then give us options like the diffuse or texture options on their other games when we buy (or craft?) or obtain gear so that we can manage how our characters look, while also having a deeper pool of items for us to use, and I don't mean like on CO where you have 5million items that are <insert name here>'s <insert name of object here> of <insert modifier like 'darkness' or 'strength'>. We need 4 or 5 styles of each type of item in the game, with different looks, but the same stats, so a longsword can act like a longsword, but look different from the next longsword.