Oh no. The economy in Eve Online is the penultimate mmo economy. It is every bit as complex as a real world economy with lines of supply, logistics, warehousing, rent, everything. Even reimbursement, taxes, and more. It is what every robust and true game economy should aspire to be. That's a fact, not an opinion.
It would be solved once and then everyone else would google.
Meant says you in reference to no crafting is needed in Neverwinter. I agree wholeheartedly on Eve Online superior crafting/tradeskills. There is so many aspects to Eve Online when it comes to those skills that it is one of the major foundations of the game mechanics.
You know, that Library idea I had gave an idea to another idea XD
These scrolls you could write on... it would be great for making secret messages, coded in some ways. A quest would require you to find clues about how to break the code and thus find a way to do the quest ;]
This sounds more like something that would be within a module itself.
Meant says you in reference to no crafting is needed in Neverwinter. I agree wholeheartedly on Eve Online superior crafting/tradeskills. There is so many aspects to Eve Online when it comes to those skills that it is one of the major foundations of the game mechanics.
I can't remember the last time I crafted anything in a D&D campaign just to increase my crafting skill. D&D is a heroic game. Not a typical mmo.
I can't remember the last time I crafted anything in a D&D campaign just to increase my crafting skill. D&D is a heroic game. Not a typical mmo.
Strangely enough, most of those "casual gamers" you like to reference do like crafting, hence their popularity in MMOs.
That being said, I do not want crafting included for the sake of including crafting. It has to be well thought out, a perfect fit for Neverwinter, and it has to fall in line with the mechanics.
Over 32,000 responses to that poll. Crafting is the lowest and that was in a multiple choice poll. Only 30% enjoy crafting, leaving 70% that don't. 70% is a majority, right? I'm doing my math correctly I hope.
Over 32,000 responses to that poll. Crafting is the lowest and that was in a multiple choice poll. Only 30% enjoy crafting, leaving 70% that don't. 70% is a majority, right? I'm doing my math correctly I hope.
You either misunderstood my statement or misunderstood that poll topic. That poll does not ask what they like. It asks "what they are most into." You can be "most into" one aspect and still like another. It just doesn't make their "favorite things" list.
Besides, it's from a game that isn't released yet. Find a similar poll for WoW and see how the numbers match up.
Over 32,000 responses to that poll. Crafting is the lowest and that was in a multiple choice poll. Only 30% enjoy crafting, leaving 70% that don't. 70% is a majority, right? I'm doing my math correctly I hope.
And we all know that we should never ever allow a minority to do something that they enjoy. Much better to remove that capability, denying the 30% of their enjoyment. Only mainstream activities should be allowed.
One wonders though, how the other 70% would feel about not being able to buy crafted goods?
And FYI - you are not doing the math correctly. 31.2% say its one of the aspects they enjoy most. Some set of the other 69.8% enjoy it, but don't count it as one of the most enjoyable parts of the game. At a guess you are massively mis-representing the poll. There's no telling how few would actually vote to remove it.
And we all know that we should never ever allow a minority to do something that they enjoy. Much better to remove that capability, denying the 30% of their enjoyment. Only mainstream activities should be allowed.
One wonders though, how the other 70% would feel about not being able to buy crafted goods?
And FYI - you are not doing the math correctly. 31.2% say its one of the aspects they enjoy most. Some set of the other 69.8% enjoy it, but don't count it as one of the most enjoyable parts of the game. At a guess you are massively mis-representing the poll. There's no telling how few would actually vote to remove it.
- Bar
It's not a vote to remove it. It's a statement that it shouldn't be included in the first place. D&D is not about crafting. It's about being a hero. People don't play D&D to craft a tin dagger 200 times so you can level up and craft a bronze dagger next!
Yeah, so if it was multiple choice it is quite possible that over the half of the people who were into "story" (19 000) were into crafting (10 000). I would 10 000 is quite a lot, or 50% is quite a lot.
It's not a vote to remove it. It's a statement that it shouldn't be included in the first place. D&D is not about crafting. It's about being a hero. People don't play D&D to craft a tin dagger 200 times so you can level up and craft a bronze dagger next!
I really think this thread is about things people would like to see; not about what you don't want in the game.
It's not a vote to remove it. It's a statement that it shouldn't be included in the first place. D&D is not about crafting. It's about being a hero. People don't play D&D to craft a tin dagger 200 times so you can level up and craft a bronze dagger next!
Okay... aside from the interesting choice to quote a Star Wars' games poll to tell us what D&D is about... skilled enchanters and crafters have long been a part of the fantasy genre, D&D and Neverwinter. Although I grant you the particular implementation you are throwing up as a strawman would probably suck.
To me I agree with other posters that a good crafting system would be good and a bad crafting system would be bad. (Yes, obvious.)
Also deciding on the inclusion of crafting would probably have a lot to do with how much game there is between instanced adventures... really not clear how that's going to go at this point.
The enchanters and crafters have always been about powerful magic items and artifacts, not a simple tin dagger or +1 bolo tie. These crafted items can be handled with lengthy storyline quests.
Aside from the Recluce Saga, how many fantasy novels include tons of detailed, boring, and mundane crafting?
Why should crafting be boring? To get the required stuff you sometimes need quite a dangerous quest...
The problem with 3 ed crafting was that it took too long. When a campaign could take about 20-30 days of in-game time, to make a lvl 6 scroll you needed like 6 days. It's not like that in online games.
In my campaigns players (if the campaign was high level) would declare that they use crafting before the game, so that they loose xp, but less money. 3 ed simply took too long to make anything.
The enchanters and crafters have always been about powerful magic items and artifacts, not a simple tin dagger or +1 bolo tie. These crafted items can be handled with lengthy storyline quests.
Aside from the Recluce Saga, how many fantasy novels include tons of detailed, boring, and mundane crafting?
How many fantasy novels show the author rolling up the character, levelling up the character, selecting new powers, following down conversation trees and conversation option, using GUIs to trigger the character's actions, managing their inventory, quest logs, journals, chat panes, waiting for their party member to return from a bathroom break?
There are a lot of mundane tasks that computer games allow, some of which people find quite enjoyable.
UI's and all that other HAMSTER was not my argument regarding crafting. My point is that crafting doesn't belong in a D&D game because that's not what the characters do. They are adventurers. They go out and kill things.
UI's and all that other HAMSTER was not my argument regarding crafting. My point is that crafting doesn't belong in a D&D game because that's not what the characters do. They are adventurers. They go out and kill things.
Right. That's my point. You say things without realizing how they apply globally instead of your narrow vision. Nothing you have said changes the fact that other examples exist that fit your criteria. Just because you are not talking about those things, does not mean that your point doesn't apply to those things.
What you are coming to terms with right now is that your logic was inherently flawed from the beginning. It does not apply globally to you becuase you are applying it just to your bias. Now that you have to look at the big picture, you call the bias "HAMSTER."
They don't. Crafting is something the character / protagonist would do. Not the player or reader. It doesn't have HAMSTER to do with UI's or bathroom breaks or anything else. Or are you suggesting that we should add some kind of requirement for your character to defecate and urinate.
They don't. Crafting is something the character / protagonist would do. Not the player or reader. It doesn't have HAMSTER to do with UI's or bathroom breaks or anything else. Or are you suggesting that we should add some kind of requirement for your character to defecate and urinate.
I said "waiting for party members to return from bathroom breaks." I did not say antying about the act of going to the bathroom. When someone goes AFK, players and characters have things they can do to occupy their time while they wait for the story to continue.
Comments
Meant says you in reference to no crafting is needed in Neverwinter. I agree wholeheartedly on Eve Online superior crafting/tradeskills. There is so many aspects to Eve Online when it comes to those skills that it is one of the major foundations of the game mechanics.
This sounds more like something that would be within a module itself.
I can't remember the last time I crafted anything in a D&D campaign just to increase my crafting skill. D&D is a heroic game. Not a typical mmo.
That being said, I do not want crafting included for the sake of including crafting. It has to be well thought out, a perfect fit for Neverwinter, and it has to fall in line with the mechanics.
Take it or leave it? I'd leave it.
Over 32,000 responses to that poll. Crafting is the lowest and that was in a multiple choice poll. Only 30% enjoy crafting, leaving 70% that don't. 70% is a majority, right? I'm doing my math correctly I hope.
You either misunderstood my statement or misunderstood that poll topic. That poll does not ask what they like. It asks "what they are most into." You can be "most into" one aspect and still like another. It just doesn't make their "favorite things" list.
Besides, it's from a game that isn't released yet. Find a similar poll for WoW and see how the numbers match up.
It doesn't matter how you slice it, "Most into" =/= "Like."
Instead, "Most into" > "Like."
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Whatever. It was a MULTIPLE CHOICE POLL. That means only the people that like crafting in any shape or form would have selected it.
And we all know that we should never ever allow a minority to do something that they enjoy. Much better to remove that capability, denying the 30% of their enjoyment. Only mainstream activities should be allowed.
One wonders though, how the other 70% would feel about not being able to buy crafted goods?
And FYI - you are not doing the math correctly. 31.2% say its one of the aspects they enjoy most. Some set of the other 69.8% enjoy it, but don't count it as one of the most enjoyable parts of the game. At a guess you are massively mis-representing the poll. There's no telling how few would actually vote to remove it.
- Bar
I say that because I was the same way until I played "City of Heroes" on a lark (before crafting was introduced there as well
"What components of an MMO are most important to you?"
is quite distant from
"What components of an MMO do you like?"
It's not a vote to remove it. It's a statement that it shouldn't be included in the first place. D&D is not about crafting. It's about being a hero. People don't play D&D to craft a tin dagger 200 times so you can level up and craft a bronze dagger next!
I don't mind crafting, but I hate Cryptic crafting. If they put it in they really need to do something different.
I really think this thread is about things people would like to see; not about what you don't want in the game.
Okay... aside from the interesting choice to quote a Star Wars' games poll to tell us what D&D is about... skilled enchanters and crafters have long been a part of the fantasy genre, D&D and Neverwinter. Although I grant you the particular implementation you are throwing up as a strawman would probably suck.
To me I agree with other posters that a good crafting system would be good and a bad crafting system would be bad. (Yes, obvious.)
Also deciding on the inclusion of crafting would probably have a lot to do with how much game there is between instanced adventures... really not clear how that's going to go at this point.
- Bar
Aside from the Recluce Saga, how many fantasy novels include tons of detailed, boring, and mundane crafting?
The problem with 3 ed crafting was that it took too long. When a campaign could take about 20-30 days of in-game time, to make a lvl 6 scroll you needed like 6 days. It's not like that in online games.
In my campaigns players (if the campaign was high level) would declare that they use crafting before the game, so that they loose xp, but less money. 3 ed simply took too long to make anything.
There are a lot of mundane tasks that computer games allow, some of which people find quite enjoyable.
Magical enchantments on an item that lasts only few hours, including offline time.
That's funny considering that was your entire argument regarding crafting. I merely gave you more examples that followed your logic.
What you are coming to terms with right now is that your logic was inherently flawed from the beginning. It does not apply globally to you becuase you are applying it just to your bias. Now that you have to look at the big picture, you call the bias "HAMSTER."
Which if done right could easily be implemented.
I said "waiting for party members to return from bathroom breaks." I did not say antying about the act of going to the bathroom. When someone goes AFK, players and characters have things they can do to occupy their time while they wait for the story to continue.