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[PC] Upcoming OS and DirectX Support Changes

nitocris83nitocris83 Member, Cryptic Developer, Administrator Posts: 4,004 Community Manager
Greetings!

As of February 15, 2022, Star Trek Online and Neverwinter will no longer be supporting Windows 7 and Direct3D Feature Level 10. This decision was made in order to improve game performance, optimize the player experience, and facilitate future development. In order to make this transition as smooth as possible, we have put together some detailed information.



What Operating System should I be upgrading to?

After February 15, Windows 8 or 10 (64-bit) will be required. For the best play experience, we recommend Windows 10.



What will be the updated graphics requirements?

To play Star Trek Online and Neverwinter after February 15, 2022 you will need a video card that supports Direct3D Feature Level 11.0 or better. This includes:

• NVidia GeForce GTX 400 or better

• ATI/AMD Radeon HD 5000 or better

• Intel HD Graphics 4000 or better

Above all, take a close look at the Video Card manufacturer’s documentation for any card you are going to purchase, and ensure that the card specifically says it supports Direct3D Hardware Feature Level 11 or higher.



What happens if I don’t upgrade by February 15?

Starting in November 2021, if you are running on Windows 7 or using a Video Card with a Direct3D Feature Level 10, you will be informed of the upcoming incompatibility via the launcher.

As of February 15, 2022, STO and NW will no longer be supporting Windows 7 or a Video Card with a Direct3D Feature Level less than 11. Players who do not meet the updated requirements will get a pop-up over the launcher indicating this and the launcher will close automatically when clicking OK. It will not be possible to log in or patch without upgrading.
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Comments

  • juggiolone#5695 juggiolone Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Hello,
    my computer is 10 years old, i have windows 10, who knows if i will be able to continue playing.
    I also play wow, I have no problems, I set everything on medium and I enjoy it.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,691 Arc User
    edited September 15

    Hello,
    my computer is 10 years old, i have windows 10, who knows if i will be able to continue playing.
    I also play wow, I have no problems, I set everything on medium and I enjoy it.

    Your system needs Direct3D level 11 or over.

    How do you check the DirectX version and Feature Level in your computer?
    On your keyboard, press the Windows logo key and R at the same time, to start the Run box.
    Type dxdiag and click OK.
    You can see the Direct3D feature levels in Display tab.


    In my system:
    Direct3D DDI: 12
    Feature Levels: 12_1, 12_0, 11_1, 11_0, 10_1, 10_0, 9_3, 9_2, 9_1
  • organius#4038 organius Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited September 15

    Greetings!
    This decision was made in order to improve game performance, optimize the player experience, and facilitate future development.

    Ok...
    Post edited by organius#4038 on
  • stepmania#9336 stepmania Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    I think we are talking about cost optimization, and not about any improvements in the game itself ... How else to explain the voluntary refusal of any part of the community
  • zebulondaktoidzebulondaktoid Member Posts: 80 Arc User
    Does this mean you are going to use a shiny, new game engine?
  • chisca17chisca17 Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    If this means better development time, QA/QC, performance etc., I'm all for it.
  • carloswartune#5709 carloswartune Member Posts: 239 Arc User

    Does this mean you are going to use a shiny, new game engine?

    Probably not. Changing the game engine is extremely difficult even for bigger game studios. But it does mean that it's easier for them to add new graphic effects to the engine they're already using and new features to the game overall, since they don't need to make it compatible with old Windows and DirectX versions.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,691 Arc User
    Game engine, probably not. Graphic engine, probably.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 963 Arc User

    @nitocris83

    So while I understand that stopping supporting these GPU's which you mentioned, cuz they are 12 years old and DirectX older than 10'th version, to keep in support list also make no sense. When comes windows, the windows 7 official support ended on January 14, 2020, but same happened with winows 8.

    So question why you guys keeping it in supported OS list?? I don't make sense.


    Now when comes GPU, yeah they 12 years old, so naturally there is no point to keeping them in supported list.
    However I have question about that part..

    Will game client indentify which GPU I am using, and if it's in unsuported GPU list, do game will not run at all.
    Or it will run but if any issues happens, then it's players own problems. And they have to look for solution on their own..



    P.s poke engine devs in back and ask, do they had plans or have they thoughts about supporting OpenGL/Vulcan API.
    The Open Source API alternative to DirectX.
    This would allow Linux and Mac Os users player this Neverwinter too.
    I heard there where some guys working on linux client for this game.. So question do Cryptic would like to spread in other than Win OS. :)
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,691 Arc User
    edited September 20


    @nitocris83

    So while I understand that stopping supporting these GPU's which you mentioned, cuz they are 12 years old and DirectX older than 10'th version, to keep in support list also make no sense. When comes windows, the windows 7 official support ended on January 14, 2020, but same happened with winows 8.

    Not exactly. Windows 7 extended support ended on Jan, 2020. Its general support ended in 2015.
    Windows 8 extended support will end in 2023. General support ended in 2018.
    5 years gap between the end of both level of support.

    I personally wish windows 8 extended support to be ended by now so that one less OS I need to worry about. No luck. :(
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,160 Arc User

    It will not be possible to log in or patch without upgrading.

    In other words, there is no problem with running the game on Windows 7, but you are still going to artificially prevent players from doing so, just to please Microsoft.

    What portion of the player base does not satisfy these requirements at the moment?
    From what I understand, it would be a security risk to continue using these outdated system, not to mention it takes resources to keep the game up to date on so many OS versions.

    How many players will this affect, likely not many, I would be surprised if it was 5%. It's an old OS and most people don't have computers that old.
  • hadestemplar#9918 hadestemplar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 963 Arc User



    Not exactly. Windows 7 extended support ended on Jan, 2020. Its general support ended in 2015.
    Windows 8 extended support will end in 2023. General support ended in 2018.
    5 years gap between the end of both level of support.

    I personally wish windows 8 extended support to be ended by now so that one less OS I need to worry about. No luck. :(

    For general/home users, support ended as I wrote, the extended support is for Win 7 and win 8 OS remained, mostly for systems which use these OS, and being very importat software. Or due very specific cases, like hospitals still using win 7, some older libraries or even schools. Some factory machinery also use win 7.

    I even know some factories who still use win xp. Cuz due hardware limitation it can't run win 10 and to repace hardware is same as replace whole machinery. And thats simply too costly..

    And all these extended supports are due ZeroDay type Exploits.

    Anyways, this is is not debate about these matters.. If want to find information about them use google/bing/DuckDuckGo websites..
    ========================================================================
    “The masses have never thirsted after truth. Whoever can supply them with illusions is easily their master; whoever attempts to destroy their illusions is always their victim.
    Gustave Le Bon.

    ==================================================
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 29
    @nitocris83 This is seriously a horrible foolish move on Cryptic's part! Neverwinter Online will lose lots of playerbase with this decision! Counting also StarTrek Online, but I play Neverwinter Online. This will furious a lot of the playerbase, including me! People losing gamer friends because of this decision! Someone stated only 5%, which is completely false! This could be 50%-72% of the playerbase? Who knows? Decisions like this shouldn't be messed with, because of the unknown. I repeat, it will cost Cryptic a lot on losing many of the playerbase! Most people don't buy a new computer every 4-10+ years! My computer that I'm using is from 2011. My graphics card variant only goes up to 11.2 Directx and mostly runs on 10.1. Also I run Windows 7 and personally I hate Windows 10, because my Dad got updated without consent from Windows 8; he hates it but deals with it! Out of my experience, I agree with my Dad just trying to work the darn Windows 10 OS! Also Windows 10 has lots of bloatware and that's not all I can discuss about Windows 10! It's so confusing and navigating is such a pain! Just for me to upgrade myself, I have to go with Windows 10! I can deal with Windows 8 if I'm lucky to find that OS version, but I prefer Windows 7! Forcing the playerbase to upgrade an OS is going furious a lot when it's not someone's preference on OS version. I guess it's back to Perfect World International with me? Perfect World International has improved optimization without the need to upgrade anything. The only thing Perfect World International has updated is to run with multiple cores. The game runs really smoothly now and runs on potato. Neverwinter Online doesn't need to change a thing! Seriously I will protest if Cryptic takes this game away from me! I can't afford a new computer at the moment! Want performance? How about updating the c++ programming in the game?! It's really poorly executed and outdated. That I can deal with! The game performance runs fine, so stop with this decision! It's quite the foolish move decision! I beg Cryptic to take this advice! Fine my computer hard drive has one bad sector. Though it's not increasing and I know this over years with CrystalDisk check. My computer laptop still runs fine. I got only that one bad sector, which is just lost electromagnetism on hard drive disk that hasn't increased in years since I noticed it. The fact of point is that people buy another computer until the old breaks entirely and that's most people! I'm not much of a high-end gamer and also most people don't want to simply spend money for a new graphics card just to play this game with this future decision! Basically states Cryptic you're going to lose like 98%-99% of the playerbase! I'm looking at Newegg and other places, so technically Cryptic are being fools to make most of playerbase spend over $100 or $60 to upgrade their machines just to play Neverwinter Online. The playerbase will have to upgrade spending their wallet with at least a GTX 460 for $60+ just for a Directx11. Perhaps also update their OS and/or upgrade to a new computer entirely, which is even worse! Windows 10 Home costs $139 and not a lot of the playerbase want to go through the hassle! So clearly Cryptic's foolish decision on this will in fact lose a lot of the playerbase! *Drops the keyboard* Convinced now?! I hope I get a lot of agree on this post. 50%-72% or risking 98%-99% of the playerbase, which is true because this game attracts low-end gamers. Honestly I can't tell you the numbers, but 50%-72% seems quite accurate close and that's quite a lot! This game is 2013 made. Practically every majority I met in this game has lower end computer than these requirements. That tells Cryptic's decision being a mistake and I'm not lying!

    Edit: Gosh I spent practically all night typing this and proof reading this forums thread post I submitted. I can't sleep thinking about a game that will be taken away from me! My state is practically buying a whole new computer, which is going to cost me over $500 for something decent to actually play this game! Cryptic is making a huge mistake for the playerbase!

    [Part 2]

    Literally Cryptic, you're making players have to spend over $500 dollars for something worth while, when times are rough at the moment due to Covid restrictions. Most are out of a job and working from home temporary and not making enough money to afford a whole new computer. People have priorities and not buying a new computer, when it still functions! This is reality! Most of everyone with low-end computers have at least 4G-8G of ram. My 2011 laptop computer runs with 8G of ram. Everyone else, which isn't the majority has 16G-32G of ram. Again this is an old 2013 (Neverwinter Online). I don't expect it to upgrade, when the game runs just fine. The only problem Cryptic is that forcing players to upgrade is quite a foolish move worth while to spend just to play a game. Again losing gamer friendships because of this ridiculous decision! Times are rough atmosphere and this will upset lots of players during these rough times. Again this game runs fine for anyone playing! Cryptic this is the community and I think this is a foolish idea!

    So forcing people to upgrade to at least Windows 10 for an update of the game worth while is ridiculous, when most don't even like Windows 10! I hate Windows 10! Windows 10 is trash! Don't force people to upgrade to another OS just to play this game! Why do people hate Windows 10? It installs trash and forces updates without the consent. SO MANY REASONS and it glitches at times! There are many reasons you can literally Google about Windows 10 and even watch on YouTube on why people hate it so much! Me to run Windows 8 is going to be hard to find or obtain, because I can deal with Windows 8. Cryptic thinks everyone has a higher-end computer...THAT IS FALSE! My computer runs this game with high-medium settings and at least can run with ambient occlusion. So technically my computer is decent to run this game! Don't change that on the playerbase! This game is perfect at least with running Directx 10 and at least can run with Directx 11 grasp at the same time capability. It works for all gamers! DON'T CHANGE A THING! Cryptic you will regret it based on how much playerbase will be lost with this decision!

    EDIT NOTE: Most of the Windows 10 users were forced by Microsoft without consent! That's been legit. Same thing for those when Windows 8 came out. People just learned to deal with new Windows or simply moved to Mac Apple. That's history for you Cryptic!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 28
    @nitocris83 This is roughly shows why Windows 7 has been king. Windows 7 has been dead for over a year, but 100 million PCs still use it according to theverge.com. Also most was forced to update Windows to another OS version without the consent of the user! I just know how to avoid the update, because I'm quite that smart.

    16%-22% still use their Windows 7 OS and I have even got estimates of 32% or slightly more present day. I think it's clear that most people don't like Windows 8 and Windows 10! Windows 8 users are like 3%-4.6% because the forced update to Windows 10 :/:#:s . Most likely 23%-25% of Windows 7 and Windows 8 combined of the playerbase will be angry at you Cryptic for this decision. I'm just stating facts and most people just have updated to Windows 8 or 10 without the consent and without the internals to run a decent Directx 11!

    Plus all the reports of glitches like can't create a new folder on Windows 10 after updating the OS; I mean really?! I'm one of those people that hate Windows 10! I made that clear and I don't want to upgrade to a whole new computer just to play this game with new OS! Same for many others!





    Post edited by mwk on
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,160 Arc User
    mwk said:

    @nitocris83 This is roughly shows why Windows 7 has been king. Also most was forced to update Windows to another OS version.

    16%-22% still use their Windows 7 OS and I have even got estimates of 32% or more. I think it's clear that most people don't like Windows 8 and Windows 10! Windows 8 users are like 3%. So forcing 32% of players to change/upgrade is quite the lost of the playerbase. 32% is unknown because what percent still use it in the game? I don't know?! Though risking that 32% of the playerbase is quite the lost for Cryptic! Most likely 23%-25% because of Windows 7 and Windows 8 combined of the playerbase will be angry at you Cryptic for this decision. I'm just stating facts and most people just have updated to Windows 10 without the consent and without the internals to run a decent Directx 11!




    What is the source of the above graph and where are you getting this 32% value from? And why is data that is almost 2 years old still relevant? If anything it shows a trend that supports Cryptic's decision. If you project the data outward, you would see close to 90% of Windows users are using Windows 10. You are also completely ignoring the security risk of continuing to support Windows 7 users now that Microsoft no longer supports it.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,691 Arc User
    edited September 28
    mwk said:

    @nitocris83 This is roughly shows why Windows 7 has been king. Also most was forced to update Windows to another OS version.

    16%-22% still use their Windows 7 OS and I have even got estimates of 32% or slightly more. I think it's clear that most people don't like Windows 8 and Windows 10! Windows 8 users are like 3%. So forcing 32% of players to change/upgrade is quite the lost of the playerbase. 32% is unknown because what percent still use it in the game? I don't know?! Though risking that 32% of the playerbase is quite the lost for Cryptic! Most likely 23%-25% because of Windows 7 and Windows 8 combined of the playerbase will be angry at you Cryptic for this decision. I'm just stating facts and most people just have updated to Windows 10 without the consent and without the internals to run a decent Directx 11!




    Based on the table,
    from Dec 2015 to 2017, Windows 7 loss 12%,
    from 2017 to 2018, it loss another 12%,
    from 2018 to 2019, it loss another 13%.
    from Jul 2019 to Dec 2019 (5 months), it loss another 7%.

    If the trend continues, from 2019 to 2020, another 7%?
    From 2020 to 2021, another 7%? To become 5%?

    For those who keeps windows 7 to play this game, majority of them probably do not give Cryptic money.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 30
    @arazith07

    Q: What is the source of the above graph and where are you getting this 32% value from? And why is data that is almost 2 years old still relevant? If anything it shows a trend that supports Cryptic's decision. If you project the data outward, you would see close to 90% of Windows users are using Windows 10. You are also completely ignoring the security risk of continuing to support Windows 7 users now that Microsoft no longer supports it.

    A: I use Kaspersky at times and Google Chrome has been awesome at blocking virus/exploit type sites lately for me. So I don't care. Why can't Cryptic simply use how the game is, which is simply running capability for both Directx 10 and 11?! This game simply doesn't need it! EDIT NOTE: Having multiple Directx support on games is proven to be stronger. Also most people haven't upgraded the internals perhaps. I'm not one of those people that buy a new computer or upgrade internals every 4 years! That's simply a waste! You probably do, however I don't.

    I apologize for the 32% estimate. I saw a site that was around the post of 2019 or so, I didn't check really, and found it again. Though theverge.com and this site firstpost.com is most recent to be accurate.

    https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/about-22-percent-of-pc-users-are-still-running-end-of-life-windows-7-os-report-9580671.html

    https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/6/22217052/microsoft-windows-7-109-million-pcs-usage-stats-analytics


    https://www.zdnet.com/article/poll-results-heres-why-people-are-sticking-with-windows-7/

    @plasticbat I have only spent $20 dollars recently on this game. I don't spend much and atmosphere I got priorities of my own life. Neverwinter Online is my get away from life. I'm not making a lot of money at the moment to afford something new. I got other priorities to worry about. I'm not a huge gamer. I just play some really old games and this game, so I'm just lamenting. I'm quite sad right now. I could rant how much I want to, but seriously the unknown of how it affects the playerbase. This is really forcing people to upgrade, which most simply do not feed money into this game constantly. Make sense? I'm just that 16%-22% that still rolls with Windows 7, because I like the way it works for my everyday life.
    Post edited by mwk on
  • arazith07arazith07 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,160 Arc User
    mwk said:

    A: I use Kaspersky at times and Google Chrome has been awesome at blocking virus/exploit type sites lately for me. So I don't care. Why can't Cryptic simply use how the game is? Which is simply running capability for both Directx 10 and 11! This game simply doesn't need it! Also most people haven't upgraded the internals perhaps. I'm not one of those people that buy a new computer every 4 years! That's simply a waste! You probably do, however I don't.

    I apologize for the 32% estimate. I saw a site that was around the post of 2019 or so; I didn't check really and found it again. Though theverge.com is most recent to be accurate.

    https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/about-22-percent-of-pc-users-are-still-running-end-of-life-windows-7-os-report-9580671.html




    What you use for personal security and how you feel about it is irrelevant to the conversation because not all windows 7 users will be using it. Most people are completely oblivious to the needs of security on technology, and game companies can only rely on what Microsoft and Apple provide in their OS. A game company that uses an online connection must protect itself from legal ramifications in case of a breach of security using their software and Windows 7 or earlier is a security risk as a result of Microsoft dropping support.

    Also, just because a game was created in 2013, doesn't mean they shouldn't try and upgrade. EVE Online is a perfect example of what an old game that keeps up with technological advancement can do. I for one, would love to see a better looking and performing game.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 28
    @arazith07 @nitocris83 Yet didn't I state the fact that this game runs on both Directx 10 and 11?! So why?! So why can't we both be happy? I'm done discussing this and I'm going back to the game for the mean time that I can play it. I seriously hate Windows 10 and finding a Windows 8 OS is going to be an extreme hassle! You can't revert back to Windows 8 from 10 and that's literally impossible! Microsoft will not allow you! I do have a Windows 8 desktop, but seriously it's been updated from Windows Vista. It's a lot older than this computer I'm typing on now! The only thing I've done on it is literally 800G+ hard drives combined; still functions wonderfully. I have to upgrade Windows or simply buy a new Windows and the internals! Simply buying a new computer with the OS of Windows 10 will be much easier, but again I hate Windows 10 on how it functions! So I guess I have to get used to it, when I don't like it. I can't afford for something worthwhile at the moment and this will be for some or who knows of the playerbase?! I got other priorities of my life expense. I just think it's a really bad decision right now, because of Covid going on and many people are not making much profit at the moment of atmosphere. That's my argument.

    Post edited by mwk on
  • auron#6793 auron Member Posts: 325 Arc User
    as far as I know WINE will continue to support it. perhaps you could set up dual boot of mint or ubuntu and windows 7. The way WINE works from what i'm told it converts the DirectX to OpenGL which Mint/Ubuntu understands so hypothetically it should still work that way even without changing your hardware.
    mwk said:

    @arazith07 @nitocris83 Yet didn't I state the fact that this game runs on both Directx 10 and 11?! So why?! So why can't we both be happy? I'm done discussing this and I'm going back to the game for the mean time that I can play it. I seriously hate Windows 10 and finding a Windows 8 OS is going to be an extreme hassle! You can't revert back to Windows 8 from 10 and that's literally impossible! Microsoft will not allow you! I do have a Windows 8 desktop, but seriously it's been updated from Windows Vista. It's a lot older than this computer I'm typing on now! The only thing I've done on it is literally 800G+ hard drives combined; still functions wonderfully. I have to upgrade Windows or simply buy a new Windows and the internals! Simply buying a new computer with the OS of Windows 10 will be much easier, but again I hate Windows 10 on how it functions! So I guess I have to get used to it, when I don't like it. I can't afford for something worthwhile at the moment and this will be for some or who knows of the playerbase?! I got other priorities of my life expense. I just think it's a really bad decision right now, because of Covid going on and many people are not making much profit at the moment of atmosphere. That's my argument.

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  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 29
    @nitocris83 You better read this full and with compassion for the community. Please note I might seem really stern, but it's a well statement of upset and emotion. I promise I'm civil without any vulgar or profane language, but make a good argument against this decision with some truth. FYI all Windows 7 OS come with Directx 11! It's just that it only runs early versions of Directx 11 capability. Meaning graphics cards mostly run Directx 10 and some variants only run up to Directx 11.2 to get a small grasp in performance. Running both Directx 10/11 as both Neverwinter and StarTrek Online is ideal for best performance because it's grasping both. So truly Cryptic, changing the OS and only allowing Directx 11 is totally irrelevant, when both of those games are running Directx 10/11 at the same time!

    @nitocris83 stated:


    Greetings!

    As of February 15, 2022, Star Trek Online and Neverwinter will no longer be supporting Windows 7 and Direct3D Feature Level 10. This decision was made in order to improve game performance, optimize the player experience, and facilitate future development. In order to make this transition as smooth as possible, we have put together some detailed information.

    The fact is clear Cryptic, you're making a huge mistake on the playerbase! PERIOD! I apologize for calling Cryptic foolish, though I don't mean it as an insult. Just I think it's a foolish decision. Meaning (of a person or action) lacking good sense or judgment; unwise with a decision. Also to think about is that Microsoft Visual 2015-2019 is the highest, which I have and 2022 is only on preview; it's not even out yet and it's not even in beta! I will not have any issues with c++ programming! There is nothing new for Visual Studio!

    https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/topic/the-latest-supported-visual-c-downloads-2647da03-1eea-4433-9aff-95f26a218cc0

    @nitocris83 Cryptic right now this game runs on Directx 10 and Directx 11 capability, grasping both of these Directx. Why change it to only Directx 11?! Many games do multiple Directx support. Last time Cryptic decided to update Neverwinter/StarTrek to no longer support Directx 9 and change to only support Directx 10/11; both of them. Did it do anything? Not really! It just proves the games are old, still looks the same, and no longer supports a Directx version because Cryptic forced it! I still even saw some Directx9 files from the game, after the change! Really?! Now Cryptic decides to be foolish by making players only use Directx 11 and make players change their OS also, which is also foolish. When people still like their Windows 7 OS that they have and they have the capability to play this game now! Why change it?! Tell me why just Directx 11 and only Windows 8/10? So far it's been really poor excuse without explanation. It's not players end, it's your end for your own benefit, which doesn't affect anyone playing now! Any game developer can make a game run on any compatibility. So Cryptic's excuse is just telling me it's just making low-end gamers not to play this game! So again why change anything when this game runs on both Directx 10/11 and can run on Windows 7?! All it's going to be is a notification because of detection, because it's discriminating low-end gamers! So when is it going to be with just Directx12 users and Windows10/11? All Cryptic is doing is upsetting low-end gamers and not caring about it, when they spend on these games, but not buy another computer, because they don't need to or can't afford it!

    Also I don't care about the security involved with Windows updates, because that's my own problem, not yours for me! I can run an anti-virus program and Microsoft doesn't really help with security updates as compared to what's out there! Security updates from Microsoft only help with internet explorer and Microsoft applications from being hacked, not Neverwinter and Star Trek Online! Anti-virus developers know their stuff, not Microsoft! Google Chrome catches malicious sites for me in the past; no viruses. I don't care what you run Cryptic, but updating Neverwinter/StarTrek Online to only use Directx 11 and only Windows 8/10 has no affect on this game! It's being forced! It's Cryptic that is simply forcing because Cryptic wants to! Sorry for my stern tone, but it's the truth! Again my computer runs this game with high-medium settings and at least can run with ambient occlusion. So technically my computer is decent to run this game! Don't change that on the playerbase! This game is perfect at least with running Directx 10 and at least can run with Directx 11 grasp at the same time capability. It works for all gamers! DON'T CHANGE A THING! Cryptic you will regret it based on how much playerbase will be lost with this decision! I don't mind a bit of graphics tweaks, so why not just make players not use them with graphics settings and players run this game at lower setting? I spend money on this game at times spending ($10-$20) on cosmetic items, so I do support this game. However, I'm not making much money to even afford a new computer right now, because I have other priorities in my life to take care of by expense, including family! I know my computer is old @nitocris83, but seriously this MMORPG is all I have to play that I truly enjoy, which is Neverwinter Online! I can't simply find another MMORPG game that I love! I made great friendships, especially in the role-play community. Please understand that lots of people are simply low on profit due to Covid reasons. Perhaps in 2023? Just not now! How can I convince Cryptic not to do this? Please don't do this to the playerbase! @nitocris83 Please tell your team of head this is a bad idea based on what the community thinks so far. I'll highly appreciate it and it will be good for Cryptic's sake based on playerbase community.

    On every backqoute: Look at the agrees! My longest one has agrees! The fact of losing gamer friends will furious towards Cryptic for those that can't play the game and can play the game.

    shirghe stated:

    It will not be possible to log in or patch without upgrading.

    In other words, there is no problem with running the game on Windows 7, but you are still going to artificially prevent players from doing so, just to please Microsoft.

    What portion of the player base does not satisfy these requirements at the moment?
    martini08 stated:
    martini08 said:

    Hi,
    This will cause many players to stop playing. As there not too many people on the servers now. (Note: Ignore this part)-I like this game but not soo much.

    juggiolone stated:

    Hello,
    my computer is 10 years old, i have windows 10, who knows if i will be able to continue playing.
    I also play wow, I have no problems, I set everything on medium and I enjoy it.

    Cryptic thinks the community has high-end computers? Most don't! This game attracts low-end gamers! It's the majority! It's telling a wrong state of mind on decision Cryptic is making! Don't change the game Cryptic! So Cryptic is it worth to risk the unknown of losing the playerbase? Anyone that wants to argue with me simply can't when I can make the statement that Neverwinter/StarTrek Online runs on both Directx 10 and 11 capability. So can't win against that statement. OS is simply an irrelevance, it's just being forced upon for Windows 8/10! What exactly is Cryptic changing there for the games?! OS has no impact on Neverwinter and StarTrek Online! I feel discriminated! GTA5 is a good example of running multiple Directx versions, so I made a good argument! DirectX 10-10.1-11 GTA 5!

    Most of the Windows 10 users were forced by Microsoft without consent! That's been legit. Same thing for those when Windows 8 came out. People just learned to deal with new Windows or simply moved to Mac Apple. That's history for you Cryptic!

    Here is a story Cryptic on proof that people were forced on Windows 10 and why everyone simply just has Windows 10. A woman sued and won a court case because all of her work was damaged or lost after an upgrade to Windows 10 without her consent. So tell me why is a game company forcing people to buy another computer or new OS version of Windows? It's not worth buying another computer and/or new OS version of Windows just to play a game, when technically there is loads of work documents for example that will be a hassle to transfer. That new computer will be a waste because it only has Neverwinter/StarTrek on it! Get with the program Cryptic! MAJORITY OF PEOPLE DON'T BUY A NEW COMPUTER EVERY 4 YEARS! Typically people buy a computer until it breaks, because that's reality!

    https://www.pcmag.com/news/microsoft-gives-woman-10000-for-forced-windows-10-upgrade

    https://www.slashgear.com/windows-10-users-are-grumpy-over-forced-updates-and-unwanted-apps-18643135/

    https://www.foxnews.com/tech/man-sues-microsoft-for-600m-after-a-forced-windows-upgrade-destroyed-his-pc
    Post edited by mwk on
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 30
    @nitocris83 I work as an esthetician, however I'm out of a job since Covid hit, because of difficult work environment restrictions. My boss's workspace environment is just too risky based on layout; her equipment being so close together in rooms. It's my boss's decision to shutdown temporary. It's quite rough trying to deal with my boss's lease to keep her equipment as storage at the workplace facility. She eventually had to transfer her equipment to a storage facility later and end her lease. I'm still employed as an esthetician, however it's at a halt at the moment. Times of Covid19 is scary and Cryptic please understand the community concerns. It's actually my boss's choice and it's for the sake of her own children because even though she is Covid19 vaccinated, she doesn't want to spread any possible trace of the Covid19 virus or any variants to her children. Her children are at a private Christian education school, so risk of the virus is quite small. I have donated Norwex masks to my boss as a gift for her family. Right now these days are rough because of the Covid19 and again lots of people are out of a job. My boss's expense is only from her husband for her family at the moment. Both her husband and her make lots of money to afford luxury, so their investment is quite good. Now again it's only her husband paying the bills. Eventually she is going to open up again, once the child vaccine comes out. The child vaccine is on trial at least, so hopefully sometime soon it will be comfort. Again Covid19 times are just too scary to mess with. November will be probably when work will slowly open back again once the child Covid19 vaccine comes out. However time is needed to test the child population reaction to it, so who knows the time outcome? Then once I start working again, I have to work up my debt of expense to buy a new computer, which I have no idea when that will be? Also dealing with the virus variants and slowing opening up. Very confusing times and rough times to deal with; just scary. Some people are only being paid by the government. People need time to make up their expense! That's why I think 2023 is a good time for people to adjust. At least I have a job, but it's at a stand still. Now I'm forced to a side-job with my half-sister living with me, as we are doing together as consultants for Norwex. My half-sister is the true consultant, because she did it with a friend as a side job in college-long story short. Norwex is a line of cleaning and personal care products that improve your quality of life by helping radically reduce chemicals in your home. I make enough investment profit with it at times for live expense of paying bills with this side job. However, not enough to afford a new computer right now for worthwhile! I know I have many reasons, but for reality case, this decision to make Neverwinter/StarTrek Online only run on Windows 8/10 simply is a big mistake on impacting the playerbase! My side job is only paying my bills! Like internet to communicate with my boss/co-workers and my clients that I'm selling Norwex product to with Zoom meetings. Not to mention food, electricity, water, and everything else with expense. This is a great example for many of the community, which is unknown. Many people might as well have Windows 8 or 10, however not the graphics hardware with Directx 11, which cost money. My case is to simply update/upgrade everything by simply buying a new computer. This decision isn't a good time due to many can't afford to upgrade their computers because of lost of employment due to Covid restrictions. I tried to get a job elsewhere and I simply can't; I'm out of luck temporary! I'm just trying to live my life! So please reconsider this decision. That's all I have to make as my final statement. Taking Neverwinter Online away from me will be upsetting for me, so welcome to my world. So again please consider the community! Cryptic please think about the rough times that the community is facing! Keeping Neverwinter and StarTrek Online the way they are is ideal for all the community. Again this game runs on both Directx 10/11. So why just Directx 11 and change the OS only for Windows 8/10? It doesn't make any sense! Running multiple Directx on a game is proven to be stronger! OS is totally irrelevant!

    Edit: Sorry for any run-ons, I'm just too lazy to change it. Also I understand you might think my work environment isn't sanitary? It is, however dealing with lots of equipment can spread to clothing easily after each clean, so it's quite risky unknowing that anyone will be carrying the Covid19 virus home that is an employee and/or manager (owner). Very small chance, but just risky and also risky for customers, since the equipment is close together. Imagine public schools that consist small children carrying the virus with possibly teachers getting infected and you will truly understand the circumstances involved. Some kids react to the Covid19 virus differently, but it depends on the child, so it's unknown. Same with adults. Viruses are everywhere! You can't stop it, only prevent it the best way you can. So wear a mask, because it's like wearing a seat belt. It's not guaranteed, so the risk is still there. It's my boss's choice to be cautious for her sake and everyone else. So I respect her decision.
    Post edited by mwk on
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 30
    I discuss a lot...sorry. @nitocris83

    Portions of playerbase are.

    Windows 7 with Directx 10
    Windows 7 with Directx 11 or higher
    Windows 8 with Directx 10
    Windows 8 with Directx 11 or higher
    Windows 10 with Directx 10
    Windows 10 with Directx 11 or higher

    Having a certain MSAA disabled will to allow for Directx 10. Anyone running Directx 11 will have multiple MSSA enabled. So it's possible to run multiple Directx, which Neverwinter/StarTrek is running on now! Not to mention, so lets list them. MLAA, MSAA, FXAA, TAA, and SMAA. The game can be forced for different Directx targets.

    Security reasons is simply your end not players end. A server can be supported with any anti-virus protection and it shouldn't affect anyone with lower OS! Just because of no longer supports is simply my problem, not yours! I've dealt with Tera Online having breaches and I was never affected! So it's a poor excuse stating just because Microsoft no longer supports. So far both games of Neverwinter/StarTrek Online goldsellers are gone. So far Cryptic has done a fine job preventing hackers. I've never seen any exploits so far recently. It's the server that has protection, not the playerbase. Playerbase don't need to upgrade their OS for the protection! Microsoft only protects on Microsoft apps, not Neverwinter/StarTrek Online. C++ programming is only Microsoft Visual 2015-2019, which I have. SQL server protection is server sided, not playerbase sided! So again it shouldn't affect people with lower OS. You don't need the SQL server protection yourself to get any benefit from the game server. Catching on? Any anti-virus protection can run on multiple OS systems. Seriously just because no longer supports with Microsoft? That's a poor excuse! My anti-virus protection is my problem, not yours! I have my own virus protection! Whatever the case is, I have my own protection!

    Portions of the playerbase is a mixed bag. I just think as of right now Neverwinter/StarTrek Online running on multiple OS and these games take both Directx 10/11 at the same time is ideal for the community. Again most games run perfectly fine with multiple Directx as I stated before-GTA5 is a great example. Running multiple Directx is simply the performance because any Directx 11 user is grasping Directx 10 also. It's proven that running multiple Directx support is stronger for game performance! The force upon community is making a lot of the playerbase having to upgrade their computers. Many can't afford at the moment or simply don't want to because their computers still work. The hassle is literally making the majority have to upgrade for worthwhile future during these rough times. As I stated many can't afford because they aren't making a lot of money to afford something worthwhile. It's a mixed bag on luxury. Majority have expenses to pay for life. People are being paid by the government with loss of job due to Covid restrictions. People are working hard from their homes for profit expense. Sure people are buying Zen, however not as much as it was. Me for example, only spent $10-20 on cosmetics, because I had that little extra change that I could just to get rid of cleaning my house-Tymora luck.

    I believe I made my valid arguments. I'm done discussing this. All I ask is to reconsider because of the playerbase. The community!
    Post edited by mwk on
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,450 Arc User
    Why? Because supporting outdated legacy systems costs a lot of time, time that could be used for better things, like improving the overall looks and optimizing the game. That without even taking into account benefiting and using modern technologies and utilizing better modern hardware.

    I also don't see the merit of the complaint, Windows 10 is a free upgrade, and per the lengthy (gods...) post above, that old 2011 comp supports direct x 11.2 (considering that direct x 11 was released in 2009)

    So all that complaining can be summed up in " You all have to stay in 15 years old (or whatever hardware that only supported up to 10) visuals, performance and hardware utilization just because I hate Windows 10."


    I don't know why we still don't drive a horse and carriage..


    Guild: The Imaginary Friends
    If you disagree with me: My opinions are my own and do not reflect on my guild and friends.
    If you agree with me: My opinions are totally the guild official policy !
    ;)
  • jules#6770 jules Member Posts: 666 Arc User
    micky1p00 said:


    I don't know why we still don't drive a horse and carriage..

    We will go back to it! Mark my words!!
    - bye bye -
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 9,691 Arc User
    edited September 30
    Our company charges about 3 times support fee for 'limited' supporting our software in obsolete hardware/OS. Each year we add another 30% fee on top of it. We hope the fee is high enough so that (1) it worth the pain or (2) the customer will give up and upgrade.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    @mwk it may be soul crushing for you to hear you will have to give up this game but you are probably one of five people who are in your situation regarding os systems. Why don't you try to update to ten if you really care. Security on win 7 is no joke and if you get hijacked you're going to care. Win 10 is better than it used to be by a lot.

    when they discontinue supporting a platform numbers are run. they can see exactly what their users are using to play the game. they aren't going off graphs from the internet. they're running their own software and saying yeah we have 10 people logging in with this system. it's not worth our time or effort.

    What WILL kill this game is New world. lol it's just like Neverwinter but good. haha

    honestly you're better off and they're doing you a huge favor. this game is a hot steaming pile of poo atm. you can do better.
  • mwkmwk Member Posts: 309 Arc User
    edited September 30
    None, then 2X MSAA- 8X MSAA, and then FXX for Neverwinter Online.

    Texture anisotropic texturing goes up to 16x.

    My graphics card can display up to 16x, however it will be slow around lots of players around.

    I choose 4X-8X, even though I could run higher. It's a preference thing. You might state your mind in a post, like I can't. However, I tried 16X, when I first started this game and surprise surprise it worked with no flashing of screen.

    Why not target certain graphics settings only for certain Directx?

    This game runs on Directx 10/11 already! What defines AA and anisotropic texturing? And I told you I run this game on High-Medium on the rest with ambient occlusion! What change is Cryptic really doing? Nothing?! Just forcing an OS and Directx 11!

    I know this is an old game, but what defines AA and anisotropic texturing? When I can run 16X with no problem on this Star Wars Knights Of The Republic? Laugh all you want, but simply what defines it? This proves that Neverwinter Online is old and can't be updated! It's a waste of time and resources! So it's being forced by the developers, because they want to! Graphics hasn't changed much by AA and anisotropic texturing. Just better performance. Neverwinter is 2013, it's old and changing the graphics simply can't be done! This game developed around 2011 or 2012 and released in 2013. Changing the game simply can't be done and that's like remaking the full game completely! So truly Cryptic is making an unintelligent decision *excuse me* I'm not trying to insult. Changing the graphics completely can't be done! That requires remaking the full game and I'm repeating myself for it to soak in! Leave the games as they are! You're not changing anything!



    Also why are people still on with telling me these security reasons, when it has no affect on the game! I don't care and I have my own protection! This means Google Chrome catching malicious sites and I can run anti-virus software that catches viruses far more than any Microsoft update! So why should Cryptic care?! That's the most horrible excuse I've seen in years! So stop telling me that! I hate seeming like I'm attacking people, but it's truth.





    Post edited by mwk on
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