Just curious about the players complaining about the scaling making them worse, help me out here please:
Is this ONLY in endgame stuff that you are having this issue? In other words, when you are comparing yourself to other players with lower TIL, are these also 80's like yourselves with 25k+ TIL?
Assuming "yes" to the above, could the OP's math on "out of ratio" gear be exactly why you are having these problems? Meaning you have all tricked out stuff like maxed mount collars, mount attack powers, weapon and armor enchants, etc. (look at the list in the first post) and having these on basically is a self-nerf? Could you take the "out of ratio" gear off and perform better, essentially proving the original poster's hypothesis?
If so, let's make a case to the devs for real. It doesn't make sense to have all this expensive extra sparkly stuff actually nerfing you instead making things better, does it? We can do more than complain if this is the case. If we have data that proves this, that's different than random forum whining. You guys with 50k can make really good test subjects for this. I have like one green mount collar --> I'm not really going to be much help. lol
Since I don't know what changes will be implemented (we are, after all, a test server for the console) I traded my enchamtments and empowereds for choice boxes. I play an "unfinished" character, understating my actual TIL. Is it easier for me? Of course. The higher the TIL, the harder it is to caps stats. . .
The longer I look at this "scaling" the more I get the impression that the developers are incompetent. Because what they actually implemented? A million mobs moving at the speed of light just so they can surely besiege you from all sides and have an advantage over you? Just to give credence to a statistic they introduced that was useless? I also noticed a strange thing: whenever I could get out of a horde of mobs to lose CA over me, so many times I "suddenly" can't use shift, despite full stamina. Interesting mechanics, truly. This horrific scaling is just a negation of our progress and a manifestation of the devs' powerlessness.
Better to feed the troll than listen to the idiot .
Doesn't matter. Shouldn't happen. If I can tank demons in Avernus, but get tanked by orcs in the Cloak Tower there is a serious flaw in the game's system.
Just to be clear, are you claiming that you can't tank mobs in CT with a 50k setup or whatever? Do you have a large amount of "out of ratio gear" like maxed mount collars, maxed armor and weapon enhancement enchants, mythic mount attack powers, tenebrous enchants, high level conditional stat gear that gives temp bonuses, etc.?
On a different note, if someone is a very powerful character in a DPS role, you probably shouldn't expect to take over the tank role even from a low level actual tank in CT, for example. I have seen DPS lvl 80 warlocks get eaten alive by the trash mobs because they ran ahead of the group, pulled all the aggro on themselves thinking that they are immortal because of their TIL, and then I am once again trying to save them with dedicated heals when the rest of us catch up to them. LOL If you aren't a tank, don't try to be a tank. Yes, even in Cloak Tower. I'm not saying this is you, greywynd... I'm just relaying what I've seen happen more than once. Sometimes it's a rogue, sometimes it's a warlock or ranger. But it happens more than rarely that a DPS thinks he can be a tank, and the new system punishes them. I'm pretty sure that's not a bug, and exactly what the developers had in mind.
If a tank can't tank, that's something else entirely.
He's saying he has no problem with tanking in the hardest area of the game but when he goes to something that scales him down, suddenly he's having problems.
This is exactly the feedback you asked people for yesterday!
He's saying his stats are balanced for endgame content but scaling down throws his percentages way off and makes him much less effective. When he exits the scaled area, everything goes back to normal.
And yes, he's a proper tank class tank who's played tank for many years.
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He's saying he has no problem with tanking in the hardest area of the game but when he goes to something that scales him down, suddenly he's having problems.
This is exactly the feedback you asked people for yesterday!
He's saying his stats are balanced for endgame content but scaling down throws his percentages way off and makes him much less effective. When he exits the scaled area, everything goes back to normal.
And yes, he's a proper tank class tank who's played tank for many years.
OKAY THEN, now we have something. All we have to do to prove the OP's case is have this tank remove the strictly "out of ratio" gear and go at it again. If suddenly this 50k tank who couldn't tank CT is now able to do it ---> see where I am going with this? Obviously, this can't be WAI, if this is the case. We report this data (REAL DATA) and the devs have a chance to see that they missed some stuff for fringe cases with their system change. As the OP suggested in the first post here.
He's saying he has no problem with tanking in the hardest area of the game but when he goes to something that scales him down, suddenly he's having problems.
This is exactly the feedback you asked people for yesterday!
He's saying his stats are balanced for endgame content but scaling down throws his percentages way off and makes him much less effective. When he exits the scaled area, everything goes back to normal.
And yes, he's a proper tank class tank who's played tank for many years.
OKAY THEN, now we have something. All we have to do to prove the OP's case is have this tank remove the strictly "out of ratio" gear and go at it again. If suddenly this 50k tank who couldn't tank CT is now able to do it ---> see where I am going with this? Obviously, this can't be WAI, if this is the case. We report this data (REAL DATA) and the devs have a chance to see that they missed some stuff for fringe cases with their system change. As the OP suggested in the first post here.
I'm sure @greywynd could post a screenshot of his stats being unscaled in Avernus and being scaled in CT but this is not a 'fringe' problem, it happens to all highly geared players and many have already left feedback saying that if they remove most of their gear and/or swap it for very low IL stuff they can balance their stats back to where they should be. This has been said by many players over the last week.
This of course is just a workaround as players shouldn't have to use up inventory space for several sets of equipment to slot in depending on where the random queue lands them.
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I'm not talking about screenshots of numbers, I'm talking playing the game and being able to succeed or not. When a tank geared for epics that succeeds at epics can't tank normal, then the devs might need to look at it.
And there is a difference between "I can't do this" and "I can't easily blow through this without trying". Some people on the forums are being very cavalier with their word choices as we saw in the help thread where somebody came in and claimed they couldn't clear content in Blacklake as a level 63. There were a couple of posts similar to that. Exaggerating doesn't help, we need actual case data that proves this is a real issue and not just people upset because they can't roll their face across their keyboard and win the game anymore.
Edit: As an aside, I have yet to see any tank of any level struggle with tanking a normal RDQ. Our problems always seem to be with handling the misfit rebels in the DPS crew. LOL I assume that tanks with very very high TIL are quite rare to spot in the lesser queues.
And there is a difference between "I can't do this" and "I can't easily blow through this without trying". Some people on the forums are being very cavalier with their word choices as we saw in the help thread where somebody came in and claimed they couldn't clear content in Blacklake as a level 63. There were a couple of posts similar to that. Exaggerating doesn't help, we need actual case data that proves this is a real issue and not just people upset because they can't roll their face across their keyboard and win the game anymore.
I believe most people posting in this thread are not about the "I can't easily blow through this without trying".
The problem we're facing is that scaling has a flaw right now and that's not a "fringe" issue. We are raising our IL because we want high damage & high HP for the end game content.
The problem is that currently scaling just makes everyone have the same base damage & hp - but the stat values of the high geared players are still compared to the original High IL - which causes our stat percentages to drop. This usually makes us weaker than low IL players in these environments.
I would love to see somebody with 50k+ recording a CT run for Youtube or Twitch or whatever with their out of ratio gear. If that supergeared tank can't hold aggro or properly defend himself with proper teamwork then that would be something that the devs would not be able to ignore.
me and my fr played CT, we both around 36-38k ilvl. me - arbiter, he - barbi with chicken it was kinda slow /3 encounters on every mob/ - running from CA, sliding for your life. Used like 4 potions xD
got to boss Vansi with no major problems - just annoying fight... Added 3 ppl from guild, because I was scared, reading the comments here. buffed, prepared mentally for the fight... Vansi died in 3 secs... confusion ...
thats my exp from 2 days ago and I dont like it - its big amortization on my expensive pro-gaming mouse I need it for csgo and pubg ffs.. you know - serious games
me and my fr played CT, we both around 36-38k ilvl. me - arbiter, he - barbi with chicken it was kinda slow /3 encounters on every mob/ - running from CA, sliding for your life. Used like 4 potions xD
got to boss Vansi with no major problems - just annoying fight... Added 3 ppl from guild, because I was scared, reading the comments here. buffed, prepared mentally for the fight... Vansi died in 3 secs... confusion ...
thats my exp from 2 days ago and I dont like it - its big amortization on my expensive pro-gaming mouse I need it for csgo and pubg ffs.. you know - serious game
Yeah, after the last patch Vansi got nerfed big time. Before that she was actually a challenge.
me and my fr played CT, we both around 36-38k ilvl. me - arbiter, he - barbi with chicken it was kinda slow /3 encounters on every mob/ - running from CA, sliding for your life. Used like 4 potions xD
got to boss Vansi with no major problems - just annoying fight... Added 3 ppl from guild, because I was scared, reading the comments here. buffed, prepared mentally for the fight... Vansi died in 3 secs... confusion ...
thats my exp from 2 days ago and I dont like it - its big amortization on my expensive pro-gaming mouse I need it for csgo and pubg ffs.. you know - serious games
Notice that this guy 2-manned Cloak Tower. Don't throw down the gauntlet, dude... I'm a healer, I'll solo it just to prove a point to nobody.
After thinking more on scaling and running numbers... I believe the following would work better and be easier to manage and understand:
1. Remove combined ratings from the game. (except for select cases) 2. Set all default starting stats at a flat 25%. 3. Each Item Level adds 5 stats or equivalent value. 4. Scaling upward adds 20% of Item Level differential as combined rating. Scaling downward subtracts 20% of the Item Level difference in combined rating. (50,000 IL scaling to 25,000 IL would lose 5,000 to all ratings)
A 50,000 ilevel character would have an average stat value of about 41.666%, with a lot of allocation control, while a new character's stats will average 25%. You never gain stats by removing stuff. It doesn't matter where your stats come from anymore. You just need one column to show the percentage. The stat percentages barely drop when you scale. There is room to raise the caps to 100%, and room for growth exists up to and exceeding 100,000 IL.
* * * * * E X A M P L E S of G E A R * * * * *
* Unbolstered Mythic Companion (4,500 IL) - 1,500 in every stat, 2,500 for augmented stats * Bolstered Mythic Companion (9,000 IL) - 3,000 in every stat, 5,000 for augmented stats * Mythic Staldorf Companion Power (1,500 IL) - plus 7.5% Combat Advantage * Legendary Barbed Insignia of Dominance (200 IL) - 500 Power, 500 Forte * Mythic Barbed Insignia of Dominance (400 IL) - 1000 Power, 1000 Forte * Enchantment, Rank 15 (200 IL) +1000 total added to specified stats * Practical Collar V (1000 IL) - Effect +200cr * Other Collar V (1000 IL) - Effect +100cr * Headwear (1000 IL) - 1250 CritSeverity, 1250 CombatAdvantage, 2500 Defense * Armor (1000 IL) - 2500 CritSeverity, 2500 Defense * Handwear (1000 IL) - 1250 CritStrike, 1250 CritAvoid, 2500 Defense * Weapon (1000 IL) - 2500 Combat Advantage, 1250 Accuracy, 1250 CritStrike * Offhand (1000 IL) - 2500 Combat Advantage, 1250 Accuracy, 1250 CritStrike * Footwear (1000 IL) - 1250 Awareness, 1250 CritAvoid, 2500 Defense * Neck (1000 IL) - 2500 CritStrike, 2500 CritSeverity * StatRing (1000 IL) - Effects plus 3750 PrimaryStat, 1250 SecondaryStat * Statless Ring (1000 IL) - Effects plus 100cr * Waist (1000 IL) - 2500 Defense, 2500 SecondaryStat * Shirt (1000 IL) - 2500 PrimaryStat, 2500 SecondaryStat * Leggings (1000 IL) - 2500 PrimaryStat, 2500 SecondaryStat * Mythic Artifact (900 IL) - 4500 total stats [iLevel doubled for these] * Campaign Boon ( 0 IL ) - no changes * Stronghold Offense/Defense Boon (600 IL) - 200cr, plus adds 200 Feature Stat per structure level * Stronghold Utility/PvP Boon ( 0 IL ) - no change * Companion Gear (1000 IL) - 200cr, +2000 allocated to specified stats * Runestone Rank15 (200 IL) - 1000 to SpecificStat * MountCombatPower Unbolstered (2,000 IL) 200cr plus ability * MountCombatPower FullBolster (4,000 IL) 400cr plus ability * MountEquipPower Unbolstered (2,000 IL) 400cr plus 4000 in specified stat * MountEquipPower FullBolster (4,000 IL) 800cr plus 8000 in specified stat
me and my fr played CT, we both around 36-38k ilvl. me - arbiter, he - barbi with chicken it was kinda slow /3 encounters on every mob/ - running from CA, sliding for your life. Used like 4 potions xD
got to boss Vansi with no major problems - just annoying fight... Added 3 ppl from guild, because I was scared, reading the comments here. buffed, prepared mentally for the fight... Vansi died in 3 secs... confusion ...
thats my exp from 2 days ago and I dont like it - its big amortization on my expensive pro-gaming mouse I need it for csgo and pubg ffs.. you know - serious games
Notice that this guy 2-manned Cloak Tower. Don't throw down the gauntlet, dude... I'm a healer, I'll solo it just to prove a point to nobody.
What would be the point of you soloing it when you aren't subjected to the scaling issues? You know, it's all very easy for you to play the supreme sceptic when you've admitted that the stated issue doesn't even apply to you.
How about you share a screenshot of your cleric w/stats so we have a reference point to the 'it's all cool at this IL' position?
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You see that staff of flowers? I'm pretty stoked on that one. I knew I wanted one eventually, but I hit a tarmalune jackpot around level 78 with a daily key and got one from the tarmalune trader. The head armor is just what I've got so far from Zuma Bag farming -- I'm not going to keep that veil forever.
My plan is to run the River District for the Ascended Fey weapon set... I just started there yesterday, so I have a long way to go.
I'm not seeing a picture - something didn't work. You do need to bear in mind though that as you get better gear you're going to perform progressively worse in the easy queues... until they fix the problem.
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I'm not seeing a picture - something didn't work. You do need to bear in mind though that as you get better gear you're going to perform progressively worse in the easy queues... until they fix the problem.
I hosted the image on google photos - that might be the issue. LOL shoulda used imgshack
Anyway, the Cragmire I just healed 5 mins ago was all 80s except for one nub at lvl 28. I'm 28k, the tank was 40k, one of the DPS was 34k, and the other DPS was 18k. The run went very very smooth. I barely had to heal, the Flower fields I laid down were unnecessary, I could have not even slotted any dailies. The tank held aggro very easily and was never overwhelmed. The DPS burned the mobs down quickly everywhere, the boss lasted maybe 30 secs.
What made that run so smooth (to the point that the tank kept thanking us in party chat... like 3 times during the run) was the fact that nobody charged ahead and tried to be Han Solo. The DPS crew stayed back and everybody played like a team. We stuck together.
Maybe you do perform worse as your TIL goes up. I suspect that the math used by the OP to explain this phenomenon could be why. But maybe it doesn't matter for the normal RDQ's when you can still make it work easily and quickly as long as you play your role correctly.
me and my fr played CT, we both around 36-38k ilvl. me - arbiter, he - barbi with chicken it was kinda slow /3 encounters on every mob/ - running from CA, sliding for your life. Used like 4 potions xD
got to boss Vansi with no major problems - just annoying fight... Added 3 ppl from guild, because I was scared, reading the comments here. buffed, prepared mentally for the fight... Vansi died in 3 secs... confusion ...
thats my exp from 2 days ago and I dont like it - its big amortization on my expensive pro-gaming mouse I need it for csgo and pubg ffs.. you know - serious games
Notice that this guy 2-manned Cloak Tower. Don't throw down the gauntlet, dude... I'm a healer, I'll solo it just to prove a point to nobody.
Data 2-manned a leveling dungeon (unless they brought back epic CT) with a toon than can (could? who knows these days) run most content in the game. So yes, if that ever stops being possible I will finally uninstall. Bring it on, Cryptic.
Bear in mind that this guy only removed 4 of his mount collars, nothing else - look at the percentages. This is what people are talking about. If he'd removed more gear, the stats would've gone up further.
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Well today i was playing an old toon warlock. Her ilvl is 34k. I consistently outdpsed an arbiter with 47k ivl. I have been playing with him for quite some time and i know he is a good player. His gear is great, his toon well built. Higher ratings, higher % better mounts, lots of mythics. So my 34k puglock, who has at best a dark remnnt set at leg, and 1 chicken at leg destroyed him by 4 million on average on every dungeon we ran. Balanced scaling is something I dont see. Cryptic messed this up. There is no point in gearing up. You can do more dmg than players with maxed out toons now. Just go with whatever mod 16 gear u have, and you can be more than relevant. Great right? So i put no effort into that toon really. But the arbiter has done a lot of work on his. How is this fair to players who have spent effort time and money?
I am calling the devs out on this, to recognize their mistake, apologize to the player community and stop hiding behind comment deletion. I know its hard to take criticism and nobody likes it, but it doesnt make it any less true.
Another issue i have (more personal) and this is hopefully a bug that will be fixed. Damage reduction does not work as intended. Or there is some kind of hidden cap that we dont see. Which means the devs were dishonest about some of their game mechanics. Here is what happened. I farmed the earthen set. It can give up to 25% dmg reduction. Great set. Low ilvl so less hp but it is supposedly a good trade off. And ofc a different build, Which these combat changes are supposed to encourage. I went into MZC earlier. I was the offtank on purpose. I thought i have enough dmg reduction and awarenss and hp to survive the hit on the swap. Heh thats what i thought. But the issue is not how much dmg i took. It is what i was using. I was in divine palisade (60% dr) with the full 25% bonus dmg reduction from earthen set, a +3% from hells heels, my awareness buffed was at 65,3%, my defense at 81% and 855k hp. All this dmg reduction and awareness? Yeah it did not matter. I got one shotted. 935k dmg after all the mitigation, and it somehow ignored my shield, since with the shield my effective hp should have been 1.2 mil, correct? So either mzc is totally bugged. Or smthng doesnt stack here. And i dont mean gear. I mean math. THE goddamn damage reduction I had should have nullified a bigger amount than that. Or do you mean i need 90% awareness to tank that? Because that just doesnt seem plausible. even with the new gear, it might not be possible. I used to love tanking. My pally could survive everything before the changes. Now she struggles to stay alive in some content and i have been upgrading constantly. Cryptic, you have destroyed tanking in this game. Finding a tank in PE has become really hard now. People have abandoned the role or the game. And they are not to blame. YOU are. You destroyed my favorite role. And the same goes for hundreds of ther players who enjoyed tanking and took pride in being good players. Congratulations. I asked you last month to reconsider, and remove awareness altogether. Use defense as primary stat. Instead u went ahead and double down on that. Removed awarenss from tank forte. Made it so only a handful of sources give a half decent bonus. And it comes at the cost of hp. THE PRIMARY STAT FOR A TANK!!!!!! Unless we by the books. You literally pushed it too far there. That was just a money grabbing bs tactic and u know it. IF u dont have the tales, u are basically gonna suck. Thats what these changes have told me and many others. Your claim that a variety of builds will be effective for all content, does not hold truth in it. The way I see it you have destroyed the role of tanks. You took away their dmg output, their threat generation got reduced and made them squishy. So tell me. Are you gonna apologize to all the players you have harmed? I would like to see an official apology. And a way to rectify things. Do you need suggestions? Increase threat generation by an order of magnitude on everything a tank does. You made it impossible to cap more than 3 stats. For tanks its probably less. So no CA cap or enough power to help with dmg and this results in a lower threat number. Increase the multipliers. A lot. Getting good at tanking takes a while and has a learning curve. But averange and new players join a dungeon with some HAMSTER hdps rogue who wants to have his fun, he ends up stealing aggro from the tank, kills the whole party and the tank gets blamed. You are putting newer players off. Personally i have no issues with aggro holding. There only a few dps atm who have enough dmg output to steal aggro away from me. But since I am good and experienced I know how to steal immediately, or how to keep their aggro in check. New players cant. And they will get blamed. And indeed with the new change it is becoming harder even for experienced tanks to hold aggro, since we do no freaking dmg. You reduced our dmg too much. And you made it so we can only focus on defensive stats so we wont die. ( also please go fix that HAMSTER lomm ffs. Those 1 dot monsters before the balor gatekeeper are still melting people. My shield disappears in less than a second. GO FIX THEM. Oh and while you are at it, fix trobrinds cone blast. Roll it back to being dodgeable. It is just ridiculous, how many average tanks cant figure out what to do, and they kill the whole party by turning around).And even though u want us to build defenses, we still die in a lot of content that should not be able to one shot us (read above, where i described what happened in mzc).
I will call you out again here. And i will call you liars. It was a big lie that different builds would be able viable for all of the content. I aimed towards a damage reduction build. And it only works in some of the content. Halaster and zariel murder me. At 65.3 % awareness. This is a joke. A stat that is hard already to get up, doesnt even provide a half decent bonus unless it is maxed out. You guys lied when you said there wouldnt be much of a difference on what we would be able to do and run with the changes. We took those words literally. Apparently u meant zone farming. Which is great. For anyone who doesnt like or is scared of group content, OM farming is an alternative. But why play NWO for its OM when games like WOW and ESO are 100 times better at OM grinding and farming? Well they are open world games, so they do have an advantage over NWO.
You can claim that the combat changes are still in an early stage or find some other excuse. But then again why did u release them? They have been less than mediocre so far. People are struggling to keep their previously well developed toons up, but at the same time, toons with lower ilvl and no more than average gear or low rank comps are doing just as good, because.... reasons. How do u think the former players feel when they see all their efforts become irrelevant? Your scaling system sucks atm. We know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Scaling is a bad idea if it is enforced like that actually. But you did not care.
Here is how u do this correctly. And yes this has been tried before and it works for so many other wonderful games. Difficulty modes. MORE difficulty modes. For every dungeon even for randoms there should be: easy, normal, hard, expert, insane mode. With appropriate scaling on each lvl. With only minimal scaling on hard, and no scaling on expert and insane modes. Approrpiate rewards as well depending on the difficulty. That is how you make a game interesting and challenging for everyone. It will push players to become better if they want the best rewards. And yes, Insane mode would probably be for a tiny % of the player base. But i can easily see thousands of players taking up the hard and expert challenges. Why, at the moment, your scaling system is an embarashment at best, especially in combination with all the bugs you have not adressed at all (some have existed for years, CR still has the same bugs its had since launch even though you "fixed it" last week).
On a lighter note. A friend told me there is a rumour that you are planning some changes for classes. Specifically wizards. The dead class/paragon Thaumaturge needs a total rework. It looks fun on paper. It is less than subpar. Its been terrible since Mod 16. Whisperknives could also use some work. A lot of work. I do hope you include tanks in the reworks. Make them great again. Frankly, it is the support roles who make an rpg fun and viable. Otherwise you would have 5 pieces of paper lining up to die at the next mob.
Alright I have ranted enough and bashed you a bit too much, I think. Not that you guys did not deserve it. If you treat us like this, we have every right to call you out. I cant say I hate nwo. I still play. If I did not care about this game, I would not be here giving you a piece of my mind. Idk if any of the devs is gonna read it, but i can say, at least I tried to convey what I and thousands of other players are thinking. I guess the only positive thing i can say for next mod is the graphics. The new models for trolls and other monsters, look good. At least your graphical designers work overtime. Good job there.
PS: I am not expecting a reply from anybody. I dont come too often to the forums, so I probably wont be responding to anything. However, I thank you for your time. May Tymora be with us all
@xaltius#7326 great post - they did nerf Defence btw. They reduced it so that 90% Def gives you 50% Damage Reduction (insane move, I know).
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Bear in mind that this guy only removed 4 of his mount collars, nothing else - look at the percentages. This is what people are talking about. If he'd removed more gear, the stats would've gone up further.
Yes, I've been watching that thread.
He removed out of ratio gear (powerful mount collars) and his percentages went up. EXACTLY what the OP in this thread was warning us about. If the mount collars gave more combined so that the ratio hit 1:15 then the percentages would stay the same. In effect, that player is nerfed for using powerful out of ratio equipment in scaled content like Cloak Tower. That is probably not WAI, and is an oversight by the dev team. That's what we've been talking about the whole time here.
The math is irrefutable. There's the proof. But here's the kicker: is that player now unable to play Cloak Tower? His power stat went from 60% to 62% --> is he unable to do his job with that lower 60% because he has the mount collars equipped? If he can still run stuff and isn't truly "gimped", then our case to the devs to fix this issue becomes weaker. This is Cryptic, man! These guys aren't exactly known for having a track record of even-handed generosity and timely and effective bugfixing.
For example, I reported that the Fawn companions were broken back in November, and I reminded them again before the Simril Event when everybody and their grandma would be getting the fawns as drops, and not only did they not say anything, they completely ignored the problem and gave out tons of broken comps as rewards. It would have taken a dev like 1 minute to fix the comp, as it was probably a missing semicolon in the code.
We need videos of 50k Tanks failing to hold aggro in CT. We need videos of 50k healers failing to keep players alive. We need videos of teams of 50k DPSers taking WAAAAY longer to burn down bosses to the point that it's farcical. Only then will these guys give a HAMSTER. Maybe not even then. LOL Remember who we are talking about here.
@xaltius#7326 great post - they did nerf Defence btw. They reduced it so that 90% Def gives you 50% Damage Reduction (insane move, I know).
There needs to be a giant flashing neon sign on the character sheet that says this. I bet almost nobody realizes the defense stat% is NOT straight damage reduction.
@xaltius#7326 great post - they did nerf Defence btw. They reduced it so that 90% Def gives you 50% Damage Reduction (insane move, I know).
There needs to be a giant flashing neon sign on the character sheet that says this. I bet almost nobody realizes the defense stat% is NOT straight damage reduction.
yeah they did something good and then bad to defence just before sending this update to live. Defence was previously worthless when below an enemys armor pen stat and it scaled up badly (something mathematical - can't remember what, but it gave less at lower levels) - they fixed that (the good part) but they downgraded max defence from 90% effectiveness to 50% (that's the bad & probably part of the reason everyone takes more damage now).
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@xaltius#7326 great post - they did nerf Defence btw. They reduced it so that 90% Def gives you 50% Damage Reduction (insane move, I know).
There needs to be a giant flashing neon sign on the character sheet that says this. I bet almost nobody realizes the defense stat% is NOT straight damage reduction.
yeah they did something good and then bad to defence just before sending this update to live. Defence was previously worthless when below an enemys armor pen stat and it scaled up badly (something mathematical - can't remember what, but it gave less at lower levels) - they fixed that (the good part) but they downgraded max defence from 90% effectiveness to 50% (that's the bad & probably part of the reason everyone takes more damage now).
yea - Aragon entered tomm and showed how he can take 16+ balls from halaster and named the video "tanks are gods in the new mod" the devs took it personally, I guess and did what they can't - tried to balance
I saw that video, lol. Yes it was OP! but the devs 'tweak' things with a sledgehammer. It's more like demolition than surgery.
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The longer I look at this "scaling" the more I get the impression that the developers are incompetent. Because what they actually implemented? A million mobs moving at the speed of light just so they can surely besiege you from all sides and have an advantage over you? Just to give credence to a statistic they introduced that was useless? I also noticed a strange thing: whenever I could get out of a horde of mobs to lose CA over me, so many times I "suddenly" can't use shift, despite full stamina. Interesting mechanics, truly. This horrific scaling is just a negation of our progress and a manifestation of the devs' powerlessness.
This is exactly the feedback you asked people for yesterday!
He's saying his stats are balanced for endgame content but scaling down throws his percentages way off and makes him much less effective. When he exits the scaled area, everything goes back to normal.
And yes, he's a proper tank class tank who's played tank for many years.
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This of course is just a workaround as players shouldn't have to use up inventory space for several sets of equipment to slot in depending on where the random queue lands them.
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And there is a difference between "I can't do this" and "I can't easily blow through this without trying". Some people on the forums are being very cavalier with their word choices as we saw in the help thread where somebody came in and claimed they couldn't clear content in Blacklake as a level 63. There were a couple of posts similar to that. Exaggerating doesn't help, we need actual case data that proves this is a real issue and not just people upset because they can't roll their face across their keyboard and win the game anymore.
Edit: As an aside, I have yet to see any tank of any level struggle with tanking a normal RDQ. Our problems always seem to be with handling the misfit rebels in the DPS crew. LOL I assume that tanks with very very high TIL are quite rare to spot in the lesser queues.
The problem we're facing is that scaling has a flaw right now and that's not a "fringe" issue.
We are raising our IL because we want high damage & high HP for the end game content.
The problem is that currently scaling just makes everyone have the same base damage & hp - but the stat values of the high geared players are still compared to the original High IL - which causes our stat percentages to drop. This usually makes us weaker than low IL players in these environments.
This should be addressed somehow.
it was kinda slow /3 encounters on every mob/ - running from CA, sliding for your life. Used like 4 potions xD
got to boss Vansi with no major problems - just annoying fight... Added 3 ppl from guild, because I was scared, reading the comments here. buffed, prepared mentally for the fight... Vansi died in 3 secs... confusion ...
thats my exp from 2 days ago and I dont like it - its big amortization on my expensive pro-gaming mouse
Before that she was actually a challenge.
1. Remove combined ratings from the game. (except for select cases)
2. Set all default starting stats at a flat 25%.
3. Each Item Level adds 5 stats or equivalent value.
4. Scaling upward adds 20% of Item Level differential as combined rating. Scaling downward subtracts 20% of the Item Level difference in combined rating. (50,000 IL scaling to 25,000 IL would lose 5,000 to all ratings)
A 50,000 ilevel character would have an average stat value of about 41.666%, with a lot of allocation control, while a new character's stats will average 25%. You never gain stats by removing stuff. It doesn't matter where your stats come from anymore. You just need one column to show the percentage. The stat percentages barely drop when you scale. There is room to raise the caps to 100%, and room for growth exists up to and exceeding 100,000 IL.
* * * * * E X A M P L E S of G E A R * * * * *
* Unbolstered Mythic Companion (4,500 IL) - 1,500 in every stat, 2,500 for augmented stats
* Bolstered Mythic Companion (9,000 IL) - 3,000 in every stat, 5,000 for augmented stats
* Mythic Staldorf Companion Power (1,500 IL) - plus 7.5% Combat Advantage
* Legendary Barbed Insignia of Dominance (200 IL) - 500 Power, 500 Forte
* Mythic Barbed Insignia of Dominance (400 IL) - 1000 Power, 1000 Forte
* Enchantment, Rank 15 (200 IL) +1000 total added to specified stats
* Practical Collar V (1000 IL) - Effect +200cr
* Other Collar V (1000 IL) - Effect +100cr
* Headwear (1000 IL) - 1250 CritSeverity, 1250 CombatAdvantage, 2500 Defense
* Armor (1000 IL) - 2500 CritSeverity, 2500 Defense
* Handwear (1000 IL) - 1250 CritStrike, 1250 CritAvoid, 2500 Defense
* Weapon (1000 IL) - 2500 Combat Advantage, 1250 Accuracy, 1250 CritStrike
* Offhand (1000 IL) - 2500 Combat Advantage, 1250 Accuracy, 1250 CritStrike
* Footwear (1000 IL) - 1250 Awareness, 1250 CritAvoid, 2500 Defense
* Neck (1000 IL) - 2500 CritStrike, 2500 CritSeverity
* StatRing (1000 IL) - Effects plus 3750 PrimaryStat, 1250 SecondaryStat
* Statless Ring (1000 IL) - Effects plus 100cr
* Waist (1000 IL) - 2500 Defense, 2500 SecondaryStat
* Shirt (1000 IL) - 2500 PrimaryStat, 2500 SecondaryStat
* Leggings (1000 IL) - 2500 PrimaryStat, 2500 SecondaryStat
* Mythic Artifact (900 IL) - 4500 total stats [iLevel doubled for these]
* Campaign Boon ( 0 IL ) - no changes
* Stronghold Offense/Defense Boon (600 IL) - 200cr, plus adds 200 Feature Stat per structure level
* Stronghold Utility/PvP Boon ( 0 IL ) - no change
* Companion Gear (1000 IL) - 200cr, +2000 allocated to specified stats
* Runestone Rank15 (200 IL) - 1000 to SpecificStat
* MountCombatPower Unbolstered (2,000 IL) 200cr plus ability
* MountCombatPower FullBolster (4,000 IL) 400cr plus ability
* MountEquipPower Unbolstered (2,000 IL) 400cr plus 4000 in specified stat
* MountEquipPower FullBolster (4,000 IL) 800cr plus 8000 in specified stat
How about you share a screenshot of your cleric w/stats so we have a reference point to the 'it's all cool at this IL' position?
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You see that staff of flowers? I'm pretty stoked on that one. I knew I wanted one eventually, but I hit a tarmalune jackpot around level 78 with a daily key and got one from the tarmalune trader. The head armor is just what I've got so far from Zuma Bag farming -- I'm not going to keep that veil forever.
My plan is to run the River District for the Ascended Fey weapon set... I just started there yesterday, so I have a long way to go.
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Anyway, the Cragmire I just healed 5 mins ago was all 80s except for one nub at lvl 28. I'm 28k, the tank was 40k, one of the DPS was 34k, and the other DPS was 18k. The run went very very smooth. I barely had to heal, the Flower fields I laid down were unnecessary, I could have not even slotted any dailies. The tank held aggro very easily and was never overwhelmed. The DPS burned the mobs down quickly everywhere, the boss lasted maybe 30 secs.
What made that run so smooth (to the point that the tank kept thanking us in party chat... like 3 times during the run) was the fact that nobody charged ahead and tried to be Han Solo. The DPS crew stayed back and everybody played like a team. We stuck together.
Maybe you do perform worse as your TIL goes up. I suspect that the math used by the OP to explain this phenomenon could be why. But maybe it doesn't matter for the normal RDQ's when you can still make it work easily and quickly as long as you play your role correctly.
So yes, if that ever stops being possible I will finally uninstall.
Bring it on, Cryptic.
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Here, check this post:https://arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1259740/when-removing-gear-makes-you-better
Bear in mind that this guy only removed 4 of his mount collars, nothing else - look at the percentages. This is what people are talking about. If he'd removed more gear, the stats would've gone up further.
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I am calling the devs out on this, to recognize their mistake, apologize to the player community and stop hiding behind comment deletion. I know its hard to take criticism and nobody likes it, but it doesnt make it any less true.
Another issue i have (more personal) and this is hopefully a bug that will be fixed. Damage reduction does not work as intended. Or there is some kind of hidden cap that we dont see. Which means the devs were dishonest about some of their game mechanics.
Here is what happened. I farmed the earthen set. It can give up to 25% dmg reduction. Great set. Low ilvl so less hp but it is supposedly a good trade off. And ofc a different build, Which these combat changes are supposed to encourage. I went into MZC earlier. I was the offtank on purpose. I thought i have enough dmg reduction and awarenss and hp to survive the hit on the swap. Heh thats what i thought. But the issue is not how much dmg i took. It is what i was using. I was in divine palisade (60% dr) with the full 25% bonus dmg reduction from earthen set, a +3% from hells heels, my awareness buffed was at 65,3%, my defense at 81% and 855k hp. All this dmg reduction and awareness? Yeah it did not matter. I got one shotted. 935k dmg after all the mitigation, and it somehow ignored my shield, since with the shield my effective hp should have been 1.2 mil, correct?
So either mzc is totally bugged. Or smthng doesnt stack here. And i dont mean gear. I mean math. THE goddamn damage reduction I had should have nullified a bigger amount than that. Or do you mean i need 90% awareness to tank that? Because that just doesnt seem plausible. even with the new gear, it might not be possible. I used to love tanking. My pally could survive everything before the changes. Now she struggles to stay alive in some content and i have been upgrading constantly. Cryptic, you have destroyed tanking in this game. Finding a tank in PE has become really hard now. People have abandoned the role or the game. And they are not to blame. YOU are. You destroyed my favorite role. And the same goes for hundreds of ther players who enjoyed tanking and took pride in being good players. Congratulations. I asked you last month to reconsider, and remove awareness altogether. Use defense as primary stat. Instead u went ahead and double down on that. Removed awarenss from tank forte. Made it so only a handful of sources give a half decent bonus. And it comes at the cost of hp. THE PRIMARY STAT FOR A TANK!!!!!! Unless we by the books. You literally pushed it too far there. That was just a money grabbing bs tactic and u know it. IF u dont have the tales, u are basically gonna suck. Thats what these changes have told me and many others. Your claim that a variety of builds will be effective for all content, does not hold truth in it. The way I see it you have destroyed the role of tanks. You took away their dmg output, their threat generation got reduced and made them squishy. So tell me. Are you gonna apologize to all the players you have harmed? I would like to see an official apology. And a way to rectify things.
Do you need suggestions? Increase threat generation by an order of magnitude on everything a tank does. You made it impossible to cap more than 3 stats. For tanks its probably less. So no CA cap or enough power to help with dmg and this results in a lower threat number. Increase the multipliers. A lot. Getting good at tanking takes a while and has a learning curve. But averange and new players join a dungeon with some HAMSTER hdps rogue who wants to have his fun, he ends up stealing aggro from the tank, kills the whole party and the tank gets blamed. You are putting newer players off. Personally i have no issues with aggro holding. There only a few dps atm who have enough dmg output to steal aggro away from me. But since I am good and experienced I know how to steal immediately, or how to keep their aggro in check. New players cant. And they will get blamed. And indeed with the new change it is becoming harder even for experienced tanks to hold aggro, since we do no freaking dmg. You reduced our dmg too much. And you made it so we can only focus on defensive stats so we wont die. ( also please go fix that HAMSTER lomm ffs. Those 1 dot monsters before the balor gatekeeper are still melting people. My shield disappears in less than a second. GO FIX THEM. Oh and while you are at it, fix trobrinds cone blast. Roll it back to being dodgeable. It is just ridiculous, how many average tanks cant figure out what to do, and they kill the whole party by turning around).And even though u want us to build defenses, we still die in a lot of content that should not be able to one shot us (read above, where i described what happened in mzc).
I will call you out again here. And i will call you liars. It was a big lie that different builds would be able viable for all of the content. I aimed towards a damage reduction build. And it only works in some of the content. Halaster and zariel murder me. At 65.3 % awareness. This is a joke. A stat that is hard already to get up, doesnt even provide a half decent bonus unless it is maxed out. You guys lied when you said there wouldnt be much of a difference on what we would be able to do and run with the changes. We took those words literally. Apparently u meant zone farming. Which is great. For anyone who doesnt like or is scared of group content, OM farming is an alternative. But why play NWO for its OM when games like WOW and ESO are 100 times better at OM grinding and farming? Well they are open world games, so they do have an advantage over NWO.
You can claim that the combat changes are still in an early stage or find some other excuse. But then again why did u release them? They have been less than mediocre so far. People are struggling to keep their previously well developed toons up, but at the same time, toons with lower ilvl and no more than average gear or low rank comps are doing just as good, because.... reasons. How do u think the former players feel when they see all their efforts become irrelevant? Your scaling system sucks atm. We know it, you know it, everyone knows it. Scaling is a bad idea if it is enforced like that actually. But you did not care.
Here is how u do this correctly. And yes this has been tried before and it works for so many other wonderful games. Difficulty modes. MORE difficulty modes. For every dungeon even for randoms there should be: easy, normal, hard, expert, insane mode.
With appropriate scaling on each lvl. With only minimal scaling on hard, and no scaling on expert and insane modes. Approrpiate rewards as well depending on the difficulty. That is how you make a game interesting and challenging for everyone. It will push players to become better if they want the best rewards. And yes, Insane mode would probably be for a tiny % of the player base. But i can easily see thousands of players taking up the hard and expert challenges. Why, at the moment, your scaling system is an embarashment at best, especially in combination with all the bugs you have not adressed at all (some have existed for years, CR still has the same bugs its had since launch even though you "fixed it" last week).
On a lighter note. A friend told me there is a rumour that you are planning some changes for classes. Specifically wizards. The dead class/paragon Thaumaturge needs a total rework. It looks fun on paper. It is less than subpar. Its been terrible since Mod 16. Whisperknives could also use some work. A lot of work. I do hope you include tanks in the reworks. Make them great again. Frankly, it is the support roles who make an rpg fun and viable. Otherwise you would have 5 pieces of paper lining up to die at the next mob.
Alright I have ranted enough and bashed you a bit too much, I think. Not that you guys did not deserve it. If you treat us like this, we have every right to call you out. I cant say I hate nwo. I still play. If I did not care about this game, I would not be here giving you a piece of my mind. Idk if any of the devs is gonna read it, but i can say, at least I tried to convey what I and thousands of other players are thinking. I guess the only positive thing i can say for next mod is the graphics. The new models for trolls and other monsters, look good. At least your graphical designers work overtime. Good job there.
PS: I am not expecting a reply from anybody. I dont come too often to the forums, so I probably wont be responding to anything. However, I thank you for your time. May Tymora be with us all
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He removed out of ratio gear (powerful mount collars) and his percentages went up. EXACTLY what the OP in this thread was warning us about. If the mount collars gave more combined so that the ratio hit 1:15 then the percentages would stay the same. In effect, that player is nerfed for using powerful out of ratio equipment in scaled content like Cloak Tower. That is probably not WAI, and is an oversight by the dev team. That's what we've been talking about the whole time here.
The math is irrefutable. There's the proof. But here's the kicker: is that player now unable to play Cloak Tower? His power stat went from 60% to 62% --> is he unable to do his job with that lower 60% because he has the mount collars equipped? If he can still run stuff and isn't truly "gimped", then our case to the devs to fix this issue becomes weaker. This is Cryptic, man! These guys aren't exactly known for having a track record of even-handed generosity and timely and effective bugfixing.
For example, I reported that the Fawn companions were broken back in November, and I reminded them again before the Simril Event when everybody and their grandma would be getting the fawns as drops, and not only did they not say anything, they completely ignored the problem and gave out tons of broken comps as rewards. It would have taken a dev like 1 minute to fix the comp, as it was probably a missing semicolon in the code.
We need videos of 50k Tanks failing to hold aggro in CT. We need videos of 50k healers failing to keep players alive. We need videos of teams of 50k DPSers taking WAAAAY longer to burn down bosses to the point that it's farcical. Only then will these guys give a HAMSTER. Maybe not even then. LOL Remember who we are talking about here.
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Fun times.
Feel free to pass this on to whomever you like.
They can take their massive aggro radius increase and stick it. When the current Sharandar goes poof I plan on playing something else. I've had it.
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