Personally i do not care what happens to PvP. In the bad old times (almost 3 years ago), i felt forced to get the shards for the barracks every solo-que weekend and hatet every minute of it (and quite a few of the others players in there).
I am 100% PvE now and a mastercrafter (i know what it feels like to get no love from the devs there).
I would second @dolrey proposal: I would instantly pay 1+ Million ADs for the PvP Banner for example. And if some future crafting resources would only be obtainable from glory/PvP, but unbound? Go ahead, please.
Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master
Finally adding balanced PvP! Excited to see what's to come. Once the system is official and is in a presentable state, advertise it and I think a lot of old players will come back to pvp, and even some new players who're interested in an action combat pvp.
One thing I'd recommend for the preset characters though: Make them costumes that retain the player characters face. It's a simple detail but it will make the PvP still feel connected to the rest of the game to some degree.
Does it truly make any sense to waste resources on a section of the game that such a small population plays. I have done PvP in the past, particularly the original Gauntelgrym, strongholds, and IWD, but it was part of the storyline. I stopped doing it, because I found many players offensive because of the way they berated some of the newer players. I personally think the time could be better spent updating the Strongholds campaign, and Mastercrafting. PvP was NEVER a part of D&D with the exception of a small mention and only slightly larger set of rules for it in an add-on to one of the earliest DMG's. I applaud the effort to get former WoW players over here but it's part of the WoW storyline and always will be.
This sounds like a horrible idea. I've said it before and I'll say it again, PvP is supposed to be ENDGAME. I've been playing since mod 7 and it always has been. We build up our toon and want to play them. Even if you leave that part of PVP intact, introducing this will only help the Q to pop less often. Sure new players will like this at first but they wont stick with it. This is going to waste valuable resources. Put those resources into the PvP that's already there for crying out loud! Current PvP is the closest to balanced it's ever been and then now this?
ADD REWARDS!! MORE THAN PVE AND PEOPLE WILL PLAY IT!
I dont know what is so hard to understand about that. PvP only rewards. The best gear and weapons. Come on man. The most exciting part of this game is a balanced match of highly geared and highly skilled players fighting for a node. This does happen and can happen more often if you would listen to the ones who actually PLAY PvP first, before PvE. Not the other way around. I'm done with it if this what it's going to be.
Hello there! I overall think the proposal is quite interesting, but I would mainly considering that as a PvP "promotion" rather than a new queue. In other words, I would leaving pre-set characters for temporary events (for example: april fools, summer and winter festival, masquerade. jubilee, at many other) in an oversimplified version, like chicken PvP was, leaving domination as a strong option for players that learned to master their own classes, preserving the building/stats optimizing theorycrafting. Having to play with fixed skills/stats/setups ends up getting boring fast, making such a queue as permanent will work on short term only imo. As long as I do understand that the priority is on creating new contents rather than fixing existing ones, I don't mind having developing time "invested" in such a proposal, but tweaks are needed imho in current system as well. Many proposals in previous posts highlighted as there should be some kind of scaling/capping in solo queue I would even implement in a simpler way: - any enchantment (weapons/armor too) down to r10; - mounts (insignia/equip) down to epic, mounts power disabled; - artifacts (only stats) down to legendary. On an additional note, what mod19 will bring will be: healing rework, new weapons and lionheart buff - aka more powercreep - along with new gear that will increase stats like defense/power/HP by a long shot. That said I would suggest for all PvP maps: - Weapon damage is something should be look at very carefully, while each time a new tier is released a balancing in PvE content follows that is not happening in PvP, that said I would suggest to cap weapon damage to minimum level 80 weapons (aka burnished, mountaineer, alabaster; - New gear: each time a new piece of gear is released, average defense by default is increased, because while HP has his power counterpart raised too, defense hasn't any additional Armor Penetration balancing that. That factor, along with powercreep mentioned in previous bulletpoint, is encouraging stacking defense regardless the role, killing the stat diversity mod16 (tried to) introduce. That said, and to balance eventual weapon damage cap, I would decrease defense cap in PvP to 25%, that would put defense in line with deflection average effectiveness as well; - (possibly) make campaign boons not to work in PvP. At last, please work together with community to quickly fix over performing items and bugs, what is slowing PvP growth at best is the abuse of bugs and broken items. Thank you for reading, have a good day.
I looked over the stuff you're talking about putting into PvP and that's fine if that's an extra mode. It shouldn't take away from what we already have because that would be wrong. The biggest problem with PvP is not that it's full of elitist who just like to beat up people. The problem is the you get a bunch of new people who is low geared coming with rank 9 or less on thinking they can just beat people who been playing for 5 years.I have a class that's been nerfed into the ground which is the pally tank. You don't see me complaining about the Fighter being able to do more damage than the pally tank, which is wrong if you look at D&D lore because the pally is suppose to be the strongest according to D&D instead he is the weakest in PvP and the whole game. Currently on Xbox, I'm one of the only few tank pallys in PvP. The reason for that is because they can't do any damage and even mid level character from any other class can kill a high level tank pally because they are so squishy in PvP. The reason why is because they turned the tank pally into a glorified guardian fighter with no damage. The solution is PvP should have an in-game mode and a regular mode. For example, if you are a level 80 player and you queue up for solo DOM, one of the requirements should be that you need a item level of 23,000 or above to get into level 80 PvP and anybody under that can queue up for casual PvP. That way you won't get these casuals who really don't play PvP anyway coming in there and getting destroyed in there because they are too lazy to level up there. I took five years to get my character right to play PvP. I don't want that stripped away. The problem is too many people want their stuff handed to them and not work for it. They only play PvP one or two times while I play for hours.
One other thing that needs to be addressed in PvP is slayers and drains because that has no place in PvP because you get them to stack them against people. For example, if 2-3 people on a team wearing a fighter slayers, the ward only affects but one so the bard, pally or whoever is going to keep getting destroyed. Those things shouldn't be in PvP. The new people get destroyed because all the top-end people are wearing slayers and drains and that's why the new people don't come in because they don't know about slayers and drains and their powers are getting diminished. If you go back and check and see when those things were introduced into PvP, you can see that PvP declined from that point forward. Instead of listening to a few people who don't hardly play PvP, they should get their item level up first before complaining about the game. You don't make PvE equal so PvP shouldn't. Take it from somebody who been playing PvP for a while.
General Psi-Lord out.
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kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited June 2020
Issues Raised in CDP::
Devs Please address the elephant in the pvp room which is the stamina and action point drains that for some reason you love to keep in the game for that new player experience to really shine .. where the heck is removing the Hamster drains in your cpd proposal ?
3
kalina311Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,082Arc User
edited June 2020
Issues Raised in cpd
"Rewards from playing PvP are bad outside of the season rewards, and do not help a player get better gear for PvP"
and so where are the proposals to revamp that ???
why are there a laundry list of issues raised in the cdp summary with no solutions provided from our feedback ?
@xavior44 lol all you want but you are supposed to be an officially named pvp community streamer and i dont seem to see any of your pvp feedback suggestions except hamster ....
While we are talking about stamina, can we talk about the stamina bar being visible to everyone? why is this a thing? you removed a crucial skill from the game by making that you can see your opponents stamina, before you had to keep track of it in your head, he dodged x amount of times, he has no stamina, I did x amount of damage to his shield he has no block, you can start your full rotation, now at one glance you know what their stamina is at, and I believe this serves zero purpose in PvE what so ever, was the sole purpose of adding this to lower the skill cap in PvP ? because if that is the case, mission success, I personally think it is a terrible decision that further helps players compensate for skill with their gear/build, this is a huge misstep when you consider the amount of powercreep we have to deal with .
I want to stress the point that a new mode is fine on paper, it really is, new content, with the goal of making pvp more attractive yada yada, but you need to see it from our perspective, we have been waiting for quality of life changes to the game mode we play for what seems like ages, a lot of the changes we want aren't actually that hard to implement, and are quite reasonable . The community knows the time spent on this new mode will not be used to improve our experience, so if this is a fail, then we have come full circle and will have to wait god knows how long to actually see the changes that need to happen to make PvP a better experience for all .
Moving from preset characters I would like to ask to add some more PvE elements in future PvP game mods. Such as towers, mobs (minions), different buffs, key objects which should have high impact on result of match.
This will make more strategies playable and not only "face to face" combat will decide who win. All these mechanics will have positive influence on how new players will play PvP because not only strength will be important.
This is actually already a thing, Stronghold PvP has that, (mobs check, towers check, different buffs check, key objects that should have a high impact on result of match check) this is a good example of "it looks good on paper", but what we ended up getting was plain bad, a map 10 times larger than it should be, PvP with companions (omegalul), a boring uninspired, laggy mess, it is comparable to Icewind dale, open world PvP sounds awesome on paper, but if done poorly and not tweaked and fixed asap that potential is squandered, I don't want to be a jerk here, but the devs don't exactly have a good track record when it comes to new PvP content and tweaking fixing issues, not pointing that out would be a huge disservice to this community, these modes could have been awesome if they weren't half baked and had been followed through on .
Hello. In pvp who has high stones becomes the king of the match.
Just as you cannot use companions, it would be interesting to create a pvp system that can only enter pvps items.
These items could be without enchantments, without slots to place, or even with specific pvp enchantments with a low maximum rank and more accessible to new players.
It is very annoying to have to change the equipment and remove the enchantments that I use in the pve to put in the Set pvp. It takes a lot of gold to get in and get a lot for those who have all the enchantments in the maximum rank.
Hello everyone from PVP players RU server. We are extremely upset, but not surprised that we were not informed about this survey related to PVP. As always, our opinion does not interest the Neverwinter community! But we are watching you. All that brought us the 16-19 module is a disappointment! Players were taken 3 skill branches that were up to module 15 and gave them 10 skills, 3-4 of them are suitable skills. Now players will not be able to build their build that will set them apart from other players, because they will be like everyone else. It's a boring game when they are all the same. This is not acceptable and needs to be fixed : -control is summed up, a lot of control ( -There is no balance in the teams, those who are poorly equipped go into battle - there is no balance between classes either - three players of the same class fall into one team - pvp with chicken is fun, but we hope it does not become permanent As soon as we figured out the character’s game, you again begin to change everything. Not everyone can withstand this. And I'm tired too, and the community of pvp players from the RU server, too. You say that you all cry and cry and do not give us rest!? Answer: we are afraid of your reforms! Because you do not solve problems and create new ones. The whole Neverwinter starting with module 16 is an experiment. And so far it has failed. If I could, I would return the 15th module and leave it as it is with a small adjustment to the classes. And then I would disperse everyone who could ruin it. NEED to make in each class a separate branch with pvp skills! This will draw a line between pvp and pve build and will give you the opportunity to fix errors without touching pve. Many games have gone along this path and it was successful. P.S.: PVP RU server. Lion(Лев@lauralij)
I agree with some of the posters here that pve and pvp equipment and weapons should be separate from the other. That part should be done as to keep pve and pvp no longer the same but able to be balanced individually.
Those that are complaining about no fixed classes or fixed loadouts profited from those that maxed their enchantments and sought after the BIS pve items to give them an edge in pvp. Point is, when you do things like that where one affects the other, you ruin both. A game's level of activity is sometimes shown by just how active its pvp can be as that is usually the first to die off due to whatever decisions are made.
The chicken pvp actually made pvp interesting as it left it down to luck and skill as that's how pvp should be. I play normally pve and the fact is that pvp actually made me try a few runs simply as it was more fun. There should be more holiday or campaigned themed pvp. No one should have a higher advantage than the other out of the scopes of that pool of abilities for pvp or pve. That said, items strictly for pvp should be introduced with currency that either helps only pvp but may offer cosmetics for pvp or pve.
The fixed loadouts idea I kinda like with the different races you could implement. I know there's a bird race from the elemental air area as well as wolves from around, all I have to say is try to get creative there and possibly make incentives for pvp rewards to unlock races or cosmetics of them for pve. There needs to be more beast and non human races besides dragonborn, maybe even make unlocks of them for pve.
Cosmetics and customization for each doesn't effect the play by much, but also give it distinct ways of letting anyone get more depth and involvement. As far as monetization goes, rewards should be more on the cosmetic side and grindable through pvp to get. Maybe some ad here or there and give dailies and weeklies for it. Give those a reason to run a few matches for pvp. There could be special cosmetics obtained like mounts, races, whatever. The point is that it doesn't dramatically effect pve and vice versa. The more you make a person able to customize that, the better.
Put pvp in a coliseum and any enchants that players use should be again tied to just pvp. Let your character be seen over a stable of selectable fixed races so atleast your character is seen around them.
Overall any changes you do should keep each separate and managable. So I kinda agree that the both PvE and PvP need separation. It's easier to balance them if they can't influence the other. Plus you can have different monitizations for each.
Again, those that complain and not wanting fixed things and changes to making their characters matter, PvP has been dead in this game for awhile. It's not going to bring in more people in its current iteration. With dungeons and dragons as a theme it should not be like other games, but it's own means.
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tonyvincentMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 123Arc User
edited June 2020
Hi!
My name is Aizu. I'll quickly share some pointers. This is coming from one of the most seasoned healers in Neverwinter PvP. Ask around, and maybe they'll agree.
1 - Remove RNG. Examples are invisibility and damage resistance on shadowclad. PvP is not reliant on skill because fights are also determined on whether someone critically strikes or deflects. It's luck and the severities are too high or the powers are not skill shots (i.e. TR daily with instant activation).
2 - Balance classes by asking seasoned players. This is in regards to magnitudes, class mechanics, powers etc. Here is an example: The smokebomb from TRs have too long duration, or too big radius, but it also doesn't show the red circle until much later. This power alone is overpowered. There is a reason why the leaderboards are filled of mostly select classes.
3 - Balance out at least armour enchants and weapon enchants. There are more, but this is a start.
4 - The new NPC pvp will kill the player base for pvp even more. The positive feedback for chicken and npc pvp is given by non-seasoned pvp players. This means q'ing for ordinary pvp will be even harder to balance and to actually make happen.
5 - Remove solo q. Let people join pvp in party. Who likes to join pvp and gamble on luck to get guildies in their team, or even worse, opposite team, all in order to try climb the leaderboard.
6 - I want to compliment the devs for making healing less dominant in PvP in mod 19, assuming this is the case. Make single target heal skill shot and AoE heals having less magnitude, which I think you did.
7 - Get back stamina and AP gain in pvp. Remove the stamina bar. Why have the stamina bar for PvE? Showing stamina bar in PvP lowers the skill in PvP even more.
8 - Make more rewards for PvP. Let us get something worth our time other than 15 min of fun or un-fun if our guildies get on the other team. It's not even possible to q up as 5 players anymore.
PvE content gives rewards. Let PvP do so too. The trophies at the end of a pvp season is good, assuming the q is balanced, which it's not (unfortunately). But as the rewards are now, the pvp is a chore for pvp players to get high enough rank to get the rewards all on the basis of pug-luck. Let each match give some reward worth our time.
While we are talking about stamina, can we talk about the stamina bar being visible to everyone? why is this a thing? you removed a crucial skill from the game by making that you can see your opponents stamina, before you had to keep track of it in your head, he dodged x amount of times, he has no stamina, I did x amount of damage to his shield he has no block, you can start your full rotation, now at one glance you know what their stamina is at, and I believe this serves zero purpose in PvE what so ever, was the sole purpose of adding this to lower the skill cap in PvP ? because if that is the case, mission success, I personally think it is a terrible decision that further helps players compensate for skill with their gear/build, this is a huge misstep when you consider the amount of powercreep we have to deal with .
I want to stress the point that a new mode is fine on paper, it really is, new content, with the goal of making pvp more attractive yada yada, but you need to see it from our perspective, we have been waiting for quality of life changes to the game mode we play for what seems like ages, a lot of the changes we want aren't actually that hard to implement, and are quite reasonable . The community knows the time spent on this new mode will not be used to improve our experience, so if this is a fail, then we have come full circle and will have to wait god knows how long to actually see the changes that need to happen to make PvP a better experience for all .
About the publicly visible stamina bar, I don't see how this is a pressing issue. This is litterally the first time I've heard anyone mention the stamina bar being visible in a negative light. I don't think most players even pay attention to it and many probably don't know its there. I've also noticed that the stamina bar isn't even accurate a lot of the time, it seems to be affected by differences in you and your opponents frame rates or lag. I use it as a loose guide some of the time, its like watching people's HP bar, only less reliable and I often forget anyways. I've noticed I tend to count the dodges in combination with glancing at the bar when I remember to use it at all.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
To @nitocris83 and any devs in this thread, now that I've had more time to think about my stance on the CDP proposal I would like to explain where I'm at on it now:
The chicken PVP que's popularity did go down significantly towards the end of the April Fowls event. At the time when I first gave it a very positive feedback review on a different thread, it was more popular and hadn't died down any yet. I remember a lot of veteran players were playing it and did like it, but this type of que might not keep its magic long term if it became permanent and there were also some players in the veteran community that didn't touch it at all.
Furthermore, I agree with what several other experienced posters here have pointed out about some of the advocates of chicken PVP/heros PVP. Many of the advocates probably won't play much of this new heros mode they are endorsing, they might play it a few times and then most of them would probably go back to doing only PVE. There are a lot of players commenting that have little to no knowledge about this topic and I remember seeing one in here who outright said they don't care what happens to PVP.
The chicken PVP que likely would have retained its popularity for longer if it offered better rewards, especially if those rewards kept people coming back for more instead of 1 time earnings. But even with chicken PVP's lack of rewards taken into account, there is still the very real possibility that this que will die back a lot in the future and it probably will make it a lot harder to get the old PVP ques to pop. This difficulty getting old PVP pops is likely to be more of an issue while the hero's PVP is still new though, old PVP might pick back up some later.
To sum it up, this new heros PVP type is unlikely to be a suitable replacement for making fixes and doing updates to the old PVP system we already have in place. Making updates to the old system instead of doing hero's PVP is preferable and would produce much better results both short term and long term. The old PVP system while it did dwindle due to long term neglect, it has proven that it can last, it has lasted 7 years already with very little maintenance. It is also worth mentioning that the leaderboard used to have over 2,000 pages of players, and it took a long time for the numbers of participants to drop anywhere near as low as they are today. Again, this drop was a result of neglect. That, and its clear from what I'm seeing most PVP players say here and in other places that they would rather the devs work on improving the old PVP system using the feedback posted in this CDP instead of doing heros PVP. A ton of players I'm seeing on discord and in game don't like the heros PVP idea at all. its not even just BIS experienced players that don't like it, I'm even seeing some of the lowbies I help with builds and news say they don't like the idea of preset characters and think its a waste.
I will mention some of the good uses the heros/chicken PVP could have though:
-- It does allow for you to make premade PVP teams instead of forcing you to que solo, which could be used to train players how to rotate nodes in an environment where they don't need to worry about gearing up beforehand. This alone makes me think the new heros PVP would at the very least do better at improving conditions in PVP than introducing solo que did in the long term. It does open up more socializing opportunities for some guilds and communities in this game and makes it so you can now PVP with people who previously couldn't afford to commit to a PVP build.
-- It also probably would get some new PVPers hooked on PVP and more likely to take an interest in regular PVP. We do need more players and while heros PVP isn't the only or even the best idea for helping us retain more new players, it would help some. I don't think it will help as much as I had previously hoped though and heros PVP being implemented could also drive away a lot of the players we already have.
-- I personally would play the heros PVP some of the time, I wouldn't want it as the only option or the "main" type of PVP but I definitely would play it.
Post edited by trgluestickz on
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
We have to choose heroes in the future which are not even the existing classes in Neverwinter?
When I want to play with heroes I'm gonna play Dota or League of Legends or whatever. This is a MMORPG.
When you guys first made a CDP for pvp I was happy about it. Finally we old pvpers had hope that there might be changes towards pvp which let us have more fun. Good suggestions were made in the CDP - but now -- you guys wanna just create a fake LOL ?
Chicken pvp or pinguin pvp as a limited event is fun. But not permanently.
The new NPC pvp will reduce the player base for pvp even more. We had a lot of pvper coming back to Neverwinter because we had hope for improvement. We do enjoy building our pvp toons (as others do for pve). This is one of the core aspects of playing the game. Towards this there was a number of good proposals made in the CDP. Seems we do not have the ear of the developers. Seems cryptic listens to people who are not pvping at all.
Qing for ordinary pvp (season or private) will become harder now and it won't be improved since cryptic will put their limited resources into NPC pvp. It is still not possible to queue for pvp with friends which is essential. Imagine the shitstorm when this won't be possible for pve players?
Suggestion: Treat PVP equal to PVE and choose knowledgable people instead of content creators.
At last: I have zero hope that this time you guys will listen to us. RIP
We have to choose heroes in the future which are not even the existing classes in Neverwinter?
When I want to play with heroes I'm gonna play Dota or League of Legends or whatever. This is a MMORPG.
When you guys first made a CDP for pvp I was happy about it. Finally we old pvpers had hope that there might be changes towards pvp which let us have more fun. Good suggestions were made in the CDP - but now -- ?
Chicken pvp or pinguin pvp as a limited event is fun. But not permanently.
The new NPC pvp will reduce the player base for pvp even more. We had a lot of pvper coming back to Neverwinter because we had hope for improvement. We do enjoy building our pvp toons (as others do for pve). This is one of the core aspects of playing the game. Towards this there was a number of good proposals made in the CDP. Seems we do not have the ear of the developers. Seems cryptic listens to people who are not pvping at all.
Qing for ordinary pvp (season or private) will become harder now and it won't be improved since cryptic will put their limited resources into NPC pvp. It is still not possible to queue for pvp with friends which is essential. Imagine the uproar when this won't be possible for pve players?
Suggestion: Treat PVP equal to PVE and choose knowledgable people instead of content creators.
At last: I have zero hope that this time you guys will listen to us. RIP
Our current PvP approach doesn’t work for the majority of our audience which results in low PvP populations. Some of the concerns raised in the CDP are a direct result of this. For example, our PvP queues already try to match players by similar item levels, but it will only try that for a certain amount of time before matching together a random group. In the past this timer was longer, but due to the PvP community being small even with that longer delay we got the same imbalanced matches so we shortened the timer to reduce those waits.
This in turn results in newer players being put into matches with highly geared PvP veterans which is not a good experience. That bad experience makes those new players decide PvP isn’t as fun as they’d hoped it would be and they move on.
Even more geared and skilled players still struggle at times as they aren’t at the very top of how strongly they can be geared. This creates the call that PvP is “Pay to Win”. While we don’t feel that is quite an accurate statement, we do understand where the frustration is coming from.
One last side note since respawn timers came up. Those are a rolling respawn which means they aren’t your personal respawn timer but are instead your team’s. This is so that instead of players respawning one by one and trying to get back in the fight before others die, the team members who are dead can spawn together and do a coordinated attack. We should do a better job calling this out and displaying it for players"
I see a lot of people, that really care about PvP, posting ideas about how to make improvements for people that already want to PvP. But that doesn't really answer the question, though. Why don't new players want to PvP? How can we change that? What can we do to make new players look past the abuse, farming, and kicking, to see how fun PvP can really be? because, without new players, the only way to get more people playing, is if the people in this thread agree to sync time zones, & queue together. New players will need to be introduced to the game, bit by bit. At some stages they may even need to be led by the hand a bit. And there is nothing wrong with that. I think a good place to start, would be to turn on leveling queues again, at level 12 or 14 or wherever it used to start. Make entry level PvP gear available for gold in the Trade of Blades. After all, new players are not going to have any Glory to buy the gear, until they PvP...
Our current PvP approach doesn’t work for the majority of our audience which results in low PvP populations. Some of the concerns raised in the CDP are a direct result of this. For example, our PvP queues already try to match players by similar item levels, but it will only try that for a certain amount of time before matching together a random group. In the past this timer was longer, but due to the PvP community being small even with that longer delay we got the same imbalanced matches so we shortened the timer to reduce those waits.
This in turn results in newer players being put into matches with highly geared PvP veterans which is not a good experience. That bad experience makes those new players decide PvP isn’t as fun as they’d hoped it would be and they move on.
Even more geared and skilled players still struggle at times as they aren’t at the very top of how strongly they can be geared. This creates the call that PvP is “Pay to Win”. While we don’t feel that is quite an accurate statement, we do understand where the frustration is coming from.
One last side note since respawn timers came up. Those are a rolling respawn which means they aren’t your personal respawn timer but are instead your team’s. This is so that instead of players respawning one by one and trying to get back in the fight before others die, the team members who are dead can spawn together and do a coordinated attack. We should do a better job calling this out and displaying it for players"
I see a lot of people, that really care about PvP, posting ideas about how to make improvements for people that already want to PvP. But that doesn't really answer the question, though. Why don't new players want to PvP? How can we change that? What can we do to make new players look past the abuse, farming, and kicking, to see how fun PvP can really be? because, without new players, the only way to get more people playing, is if the people in this thread agree to sync time zones, & queue together. New players will need to be introduced to the game, bit by bit. At some stages they may even need to be led by the hand a bit. And there is nothing wrong with that. I think a good place to start, would be to turn on leveling queues again, at level 12 or 14 or wherever it used to start. Make entry level PvP gear available for gold in the Trade of Blades. After all, new players are not going to have any Glory to buy the gear, until they PvP...
No, this isn't just to make improvements for people who already PvP, a lot of the ideas being posted benefit newer players, how do we know this? experience, lots of it, a bit of common sens, and the fact it has been tried and tested in the past .
I would like the devs to look at the PvP player numbers before and after they added solo q, look specifically around 6 months on either side (before and after), and one year on either side of that update, if you take into account normal player drop off, which is a thing all games experience, I am sure you will see a much larger drop off than what you would normally have seen, coincidence? no .
I see people always using the same worn out and inaccurate argument that premades where everywhere, farming new players and solo players, and this is why changes were made .
I pvp'd every day, I'm closing on the 8000h mark of what was mainly pvp oriented activities;
Did I premade? yeah sometimes, did we go in to farm pugs? no but sometimes that would happen while trying to snipe another premade, it was a bit hit and miss... and yes sniping was a lot funner than organising in a lot of cases, hard to be a tryhard when you get caught with your pants down, I also have been on the receiving end, this was one of the best aspects of PvP . Did I play with one or 2 friends, yes, this was most of the time, equally skilled, or otherwise, I enjoy playing with my friends over VOIP . Did I solo q? never! why would I? I am pretty social, and very community oriented . Did I run into full premades? not often but it happened (people often confused non pre's for pre's, even if it was just a duo+trio of good players, real pvp premade players will remember, and knew the distinction kekw) I'd even say some of my funnest games ever where duo/trio vs a pre . Did the premades always win when we did run into them? no, no and no... do you know why? because people from every walk of this game would q up with friends and as semi or full premades, you would have pve guilds like Black lotus, mixed PvP guilds taking out fledgling recruits etc, you would have lowbies, and newbies running in either full pre's or 3-4 man groups, and more importantly people got to play with the people of their choosing, be it someone they took under their wing, a friend etc... Soloq removed/striped this from the game, the population nose dived, what do you expect, imagine if that was applied to PvE... are we even surprised here?
Not everything is hinging on the removal of solo q, is it the easiest fix though as long as other things get tweaked along side it .
That being said, adding better rewards for the PvP season was a good step, unfortunately without other changes this will make things worse for new players and those of us who don't farm on alts . More people will q, which is good, but a lot of them will be farmed (because they are solo) or kicked from games by an overly kick happy community, implementing a recourse for getting kicked, like a report button, get reported enough for kicking and you are account locked out of PvP for x amount of time . Better rewards also means more alt pvp, and instances of 3 or more healers a team, which is already rampant, and far from enjoyable, locking the reward to one per account would also help alleviate this issue, tweak the rewards if needed to compensate for that .
Last but not least, reducing the powercreep, this can be done in many ways, smarter people have already suggested ways of achieving this, things like PvP gear, and scaling, and others... all of these things when added together, would make PvP better for both the hardcore PvP players or the aspiring and curious .
No, this isn't just to make improvements for people who already PvP, a lot of the ideas being posted benefit newer players, how do we know this? experience, lots of it, a bit of common sens, and the fact it has been tried and tested in the past .
I would like the devs to look at the PvP player numbers before and after they added solo q, look specifically around 6 months on either side (before and after), and one year on either side of that update, if you take into account normal player drop off, which is a thing all games experience, I am sure you will see a much larger drop off than what you would normally have seen, coincidence? no .
I see people always using the same worn out and inaccurate argument that premades where everywhere, farming new players and solo players, and this is why changes were made .
I pvp'd every day, I'm closing on the 8000h mark of what was mainly pvp oriented activities;
Did I premade? yeah sometimes, did we go in to farm pugs? no but sometimes that would happen while trying to snipe another premade, it was a bit hit and miss... and yes sniping was a lot funner than organising in a lot of cases, hard to be a tryhard when you get caught with your pants down, I also have been on the receiving end, this was one of the best aspects of PvP . Did I play with one or 2 friends, yes, this was most of the time, equally skilled, or otherwise, I enjoy playing with my friends over VOIP . Did I solo q? never! why would I? I am pretty social, and very community oriented . Did I run into full premades? not often but it happened (people often confused non pre's for pre's, even if it was just a duo+trio of good players, real pvp premade players will remember, and knew the distinction kekw) I'd even say some of my funnest games ever where duo/trio vs a pre . Did the premades always win when we did run into them? no, no and no... do you know why? because people from every walk of this game would q up with friends and as semi or full premades, you would have pve guilds like Black lotus, mixed PvP guilds taking out fledgling recruits etc, you would have lowbies, and newbies running in either full pre's or 3-4 man groups, and more importantly people got to play with the people of their choosing, be it someone they took under their wing, a friend etc... Soloq removed/striped this from the game, the population nose dived, what do you expect, imagine if that was applied to PvE... are we even surprised here?
Not everything is hinging on the removal of solo q, is it the easiest fix though as long as other things get tweaked along side it .
That being said, adding better rewards for the PvP season was a good step, unfortunately without other changes this will make things worse for new players and those of us who don't farm on alts . More people will q, which is good, but a lot of them will be farmed (because they are solo) or kicked from games by an overly kick happy community, implementing a recourse for getting kicked, like a report button, get reported enough for kicking and you are account locked out of PvP for x amount of time . Better rewards also means more alt pvp, and instances of 3 or more healers a team, which is already rampant, and far from enjoyable, locking the reward to one per account would also help alleviate this issue, tweak the rewards if needed to compensate for that .
Last but not least, reducing the powercreep, this can be done in many ways, smarter people have already suggested ways of achieving this, things like PvP gear, and scaling, and others... all of these things when added together, would make PvP better for both the hardcore PvP players or the aspiring and curious .
Our current PvP approach doesn’t work for the majority of our audience which results in low PvP populations. Some of the concerns raised in the CDP are a direct result of this. For example, our PvP queues already try to match players by similar item levels, but it will only try that for a certain amount of time before matching together a random group. In the past this timer was longer, but due to the PvP community being small even with that longer delay we got the same imbalanced matches so we shortened the timer to reduce those waits.
This in turn results in newer players being put into matches with highly geared PvP veterans which is not a good experience. That bad experience makes those new players decide PvP isn’t as fun as they’d hoped it would be and they move on.
Even more geared and skilled players still struggle at times as they aren’t at the very top of how strongly they can be geared. This creates the call that PvP is “Pay to Win”. While we don’t feel that is quite an accurate statement, we do understand where the frustration is coming from.
One last side note since respawn timers came up. Those are a rolling respawn which means they aren’t your personal respawn timer but are instead your team’s. This is so that instead of players respawning one by one and trying to get back in the fight before others die, the team members who are dead can spawn together and do a coordinated attack. We should do a better job calling this out and displaying it for players"
I see a lot of people, that really care about PvP, posting ideas about how to make improvements for people that already want to PvP. But that doesn't really answer the question, though. Why don't new players want to PvP? How can we change that? What can we do to make new players look past the abuse, farming, and kicking, to see how fun PvP can really be? because, without new players, the only way to get more people playing, is if the people in this thread agree to sync time zones, & queue together. New players will need to be introduced to the game, bit by bit. At some stages they may even need to be led by the hand a bit. And there is nothing wrong with that. I think a good place to start, would be to turn on leveling queues again, at level 12 or 14 or wherever it used to start. Make entry level PvP gear available for gold in the Trade of Blades. After all, new players are not going to have any Glory to buy the gear, until they PvP...
No, this isn't just to make improvements for people who already PvP, a lot of the ideas being posted benefit newer players, how do we know this? experience, lots of it, a bit of common sens, and the fact it has been tried and tested in the past .
I would like the devs to look at the PvP player numbers before and after they added solo q, look specifically around 6 months on either side (before and after), and one year on either side of that update, if you take into account normal player drop off, which is a thing all games experience, I am sure you will see a much larger drop off than what you would normally have seen, coincidence? no .
I see people always using the same worn out and inaccurate argument that premades where everywhere, farming new players and solo players, and this is why changes were made .
I pvp'd every day, I'm closing on the 8000h mark of what was mainly pvp oriented activities;
Did I premade? yeah sometimes, did we go in to farm pugs? no but sometimes that would happen while trying to snipe another premade, it was a bit hit and miss... and yes sniping was a lot funner than organising in a lot of cases, hard to be a tryhard when you get caught with your pants down, I also have been on the receiving end, this was one of the best aspects of PvP . Did I play with one or 2 friends, yes, this was most of the time, equally skilled, or otherwise, I enjoy playing with my friends over VOIP . Did I solo q? never! why would I? I am pretty social, and very community oriented . Did I run into full premades? not often but it happened (people often confused non pre's for pre's, even if it was just a duo+trio of good players, real pvp premade players will remember, and knew the distinction kekw) I'd even say some of my funnest games ever where duo/trio vs a pre . Did the premades always win when we did run into them? no, no and no... do you know why? because people from every walk of this game would q up with friends and as semi or full premades, you would have pve guilds like Black lotus, mixed PvP guilds taking out fledgling recruits etc, you would have lowbies, and newbies running in either full pre's or 3-4 man groups, and more importantly people got to play with the people of their choosing, be it someone they took under their wing, a friend etc... Soloq removed/striped this from the game, the population nose dived, what do you expect, imagine if that was applied to PvE... are we even surprised here?
Not everything is hinging on the removal of solo q, is it the easiest fix though as long as other things get tweaked along side it .
That being said, adding better rewards for the PvP season was a good step, unfortunately without other changes this will make things worse for new players and those of us who don't farm on alts . More people will q, which is good, but a lot of them will be farmed (because they are solo) or kicked from games by an overly kick happy community, implementing a recourse for getting kicked, like a report button, get reported enough for kicking and you are account locked out of PvP for x amount of time . Better rewards also means more alt pvp, and instances of 3 or more healers a team, which is already rampant, and far from enjoyable, locking the reward to one per account would also help alleviate this issue, tweak the rewards if needed to compensate for that .
Last but not least, reducing the powercreep, this can be done in many ways, smarter people have already suggested ways of achieving this, things like PvP gear, and scaling, and others... all of these things when added together, would make PvP better for both the hardcore PvP players and the aspiring and curious .
A player that gets PUGstomped by a "bad" pre-made directly, and a player that gets PUGstomped by a "good" pre-made that was snipe hunting, has the same experience. The got PUGstomped. Your intentions may be good. Their intentions may be bad. The outcome is the same.
Rewards earned at the end of the match, let alone the end of the season, don't matter to players that get kicked. They get nothing. Whether they queue or not. How are we supposed to report the players that abuse the kicks without knowing who that is, exactly? I've never seen a report indicating who instigated a kick. Or who voted, for or against.
People making it out to be every game is what I am challenging, that is a load of sh... I pvp'd enough to know that much, I am not saying premades didn't happen just that they weren't as rampant as some of you are suggesting .
As for the kicking I agree, that is why a recourse should be implemented, they should know who kicked them, get a pop up window with were you kicked for any of the above reasons, yes or no? if you say no, the players is flagged by the system, and will eventually get punished for it, the only good reason to kick someone is they are afk or disconnected, you wanted soloq randomness, deal with the randomness .
Back in the day big guilds had a pvp etiquette, agreeing not to use broken items, not abusing kicking etc were common in most respectable PvP guilds, this has been lost completely, I would argue the game has never been in a worse place for new PvP players .
People making it out to be every game is what I am challenging that is a load of sh... I am not saying it never happened .
As for the kicking I agree, that is why a recourse should be implemented, they should know who kicked them, get a pop up window with were you kicked for any of the above reasons, yes or no? if you say no, the players is flagged by the system, and will eventually get punished for it, the only good reason to kick someone is they are afk or disconnected, you wanted soloq randomness, deal with the randomness .
Back in the day big guilds had a pvp etiquette, agreeing not to use broken items, not abusing kicking etc were common in most respectable PvP guilds, this has been lost completely, I would argue the game has never been in a worse place for new PvP players .
"Did I solo q? never! why would I? I am pretty social, and very community oriented ."
I never ran pre-made. I only ever solo queued. Did I face a pre-made every single time? no. But most of the PUG vs. PUG matches I got were under level 60. Once I hit 60, the pre-mades popped up more & more often. By the time I got close to 70, it was 9/10 or so. There was a reason why the PvP poulation doubled during the solo-queue special events.
As for ettiquette, not all of the guilds felt the need to respect those rules, when they were playing against teams that weren't in the right guild...
I see a lot of people, that really care about PvP, posting ideas about how to make improvements for people that already want to PvP. But that doesn't really answer the question, though. Why don't new players want to PvP? How can we change that? What can we do to make new players look past the abuse, farming, and kicking, to see how fun PvP can really be? because, without new players, the only way to get more people playing, is if the people in this thread agree to sync time zones, & queue together. New players will need to be introduced to the game, bit by bit. At some stages they may even need to be led by the hand a bit. And there is nothing wrong with that. I think a good place to start, would be to turn on leveling queues again, at level 12 or 14 or wherever it used to start. Make entry level PvP gear available for gold in the Trade of Blades. After all, new players are not going to have any Glory to buy the gear, until they PvP...
Its not so much newer players who really want to PVP but get stomped that are replying though, its mostly players who won't play the new proposal they are putting fowards much if at all. They think its neat or sincerely think it will help people but they don't actually know or care much about this topic. This isn't a good crowd to cater to and the devs need to be careful here.
Furthermore, this CDP had numerous good ideas posted for helping newer players get a better experiance in PVP and reducing the gear gap, its not just experienced players the experienced players tried to help. They suggested many things like a usable basic PVP gear set you buy for 1 copper, enchantments and insignias that have no stats in PVE but scale up to a high rank in PVP, scaling players up or down in PVP so they are all roughly the same item level, removing or restricting kick voting, improved rewards, disabling certain types of equipment in PVP like insignia/mount powers, a PVP tutorial video, the list goes on.
Edit, I realized you suggested the entry level gear idea in here, I'm going to leave this post up since I'm not sure if you realized that was one of the idea experianced players put fowards or not, you seem like you are saying we didn't offer anything to help new players.
-- PVP Rogue, --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]-- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin) Ingame Handle: trgluestickz Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563 Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud Platform: PC
Thsimplest thing is to watch the video of the first modules of the players in the PVP, it can be seen why they liked the PVP. There were tournaments, warring guilds, sieges ... the players were ideological! Necessary : -give good rewards like in PVE!This will give a good online in PVP! -when there is a big online you can organize tournaments for each class 1x1, mixed 3x3, 5x5 with good prizes. So that only those who participated in the PVP tournaments could have such prizes and this was valuable. This is what the PVP will revive in Neverwinter !!! And only when people will massively play in PVP then will it be possible to make a balance (to separate the weak from the strong). 1 player PVP card is collected for the whole evening, on good days 2 cards. HEAR US. P.S.: PVP RU server. Lion(Лев@lauralij)
> @fireball310 said: > The most important issues at this moment in pvp and the things that have to be fixed are: > > -Paladin sigil ( the healing and damage resistance it gives is really game breaking and especially when there is many of them on each team) > > -The healing atm is pretty high in pvp and it should significantly decreased > > -Shadowclad is overpowered and it overshadows all the other armor
...And that's why they keep nerfing our pve stuff bc they're too powerful when used in pvp. But not everybody is into pvp so they should leave this items exactly as they are. The main reason to have separate gear to be used only and exclusively for pvp. We already have but its outdated gear.
Alpha: Our first stage of development would be a simplified version of this concept that we would release in an Alpha state. This means it wouldn’t have all of the functionality and polish but would have the core gameplay for early feedback.
Alpha would have the following items:
The existing domination maps would now have a contact in the starting area which players use to choose their character.
We would strive to make 11 preset characters:
1 Henchman – the basic class you spawn in with that is weak. This is just to make sure players are not themselves and that they know to pick a real class before jumping into the action
7 Standard – these are different monsters/characters from Neverwinter that are free for all players to use
3 Premium – To make sure PvP doesn’t feel pay to win at all, we are going to approach it with the goal of having premium
characters/premium costumes instead of paying to have better gear. This is where more iconic Neverwinter characters would show up such as: Knox, Celeste, Makos. These shouldn’t give any statistical advantage; they are simply a different option and play style.
These preset characters would have their stats all set to fit their role/function and would have one set of powers on the power tray – 3 encounters, 2 dailies, 2 at wills.
That is all the Alpha build would have. This allows players to try out the new PvP right away and start giving feedback.
Beta: This stage is more about putting the polish on the existing functionality we’ve built, providing more class options to keep PvP fresh and the matches more varied. We would want to create the first aspects of progression (such as a campaign system or boon tree system). What the progression system is specifically will depend on both feedback and how we can leverage our existing tech.
Official: This is the stage where we call the feature fully released. For this stage we should add at least one new PvP match type. Either something like capture the flag, or a more involved match where a bigger group of players are in the match and there are a mix of PvP and PvE objectives to allow a wider range of players to participate. By this stage we should have our progression system and UI setups finalized.
Future: Beyond the official release we will want to continue to add new classes and new costumes for existing classes. If PvP is proving to be particularly popular then we should continue to add a few different game modes and potentially bring back competitive seasons with a 3v3 death match smaller map style.
All of this is a proposal and can change in many ways. None of the call outs in this feature are a guarantee in any form or something we are locked into at this point.
Thank you to everyone who participated in the PvP CDP.
This is in effect the equalised pvp I called for. However I think it would be a shame for this to be the only version of pvp to exist. To my mind this is the perfect way to learn to pvp and should be open to all item levels. Here players can then complete an introductory pvp campaign. At the same time it would allow you to put a high item level gate and perhaps a requirement to have completed the intro campaign on the "traditional" pvp ensuring better match ups. I would dfefinitely prioritise the 3v3 style smaller matches for this realease also to ensure that it is fast and easy to get into.
Comments
Jade - Cleric - Healer Main - The Freak Core - Xbone
Magnus - Fighter - Tank for queues - The Freak Core - Xbone
Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Bardholomew - Bard - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Sirona - Cleric - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
I am 100% PvE now and a mastercrafter (i know what it feels like to get no love from the devs there).
I would second @dolrey proposal: I would instantly pay 1+ Million ADs for the PvP Banner for example. And if some future crafting resources would only be obtainable from glory/PvP, but unbound? Go ahead, please.
One thing I'd recommend for the preset characters though: Make them costumes that retain the player characters face. It's a simple detail but it will make the PvP still feel connected to the rest of the game to some degree.
ADD REWARDS!! MORE THAN PVE AND PEOPLE WILL PLAY IT!
I dont know what is so hard to understand about that. PvP only rewards. The best gear and weapons. Come on man. The most exciting part of this game is a balanced match of highly geared and highly skilled players fighting for a node. This does happen and can happen more often if you would listen to the ones who actually PLAY PvP first, before PvE. Not the other way around. I'm done with it if this what it's going to be.
I overall think the proposal is quite interesting, but I would mainly considering that as a PvP "promotion" rather than a new queue. In other words, I would leaving pre-set characters for temporary events (for example: april fools, summer and winter festival, masquerade. jubilee, at many other) in an oversimplified version, like chicken PvP was, leaving domination as a strong option for players that learned to master their own classes, preserving the building/stats optimizing theorycrafting. Having to play with fixed skills/stats/setups ends up getting boring fast, making such a queue as permanent will work on short term only imo.
As long as I do understand that the priority is on creating new contents rather than fixing existing ones, I don't mind having developing time "invested" in such a proposal, but tweaks are needed imho in current system as well.
Many proposals in previous posts highlighted as there should be some kind of scaling/capping in solo queue I would even implement in a simpler way:
- any enchantment (weapons/armor too) down to r10;
- mounts (insignia/equip) down to epic, mounts power disabled;
- artifacts (only stats) down to legendary.
On an additional note, what mod19 will bring will be: healing rework, new weapons and lionheart buff - aka more powercreep - along with new gear that will increase stats like defense/power/HP by a long shot. That said I would suggest for all PvP maps:
- Weapon damage is something should be look at very carefully, while each time a new tier is released a balancing in PvE content follows that is not happening in PvP, that said I would suggest to cap weapon damage to minimum level 80 weapons (aka burnished, mountaineer, alabaster;
- New gear: each time a new piece of gear is released, average defense by default is increased, because while HP has his power counterpart raised too, defense hasn't any additional Armor Penetration balancing that. That factor, along with powercreep mentioned in previous bulletpoint, is encouraging stacking defense regardless the role, killing the stat diversity mod16 (tried to) introduce. That said, and to balance eventual weapon damage cap, I would decrease defense cap in PvP to 25%, that would put defense in line with deflection average effectiveness as well;
- (possibly) make campaign boons not to work in PvP.
At last, please work together with community to quickly fix over performing items and bugs, what is slowing PvP growth at best is the abuse of bugs and broken items.
Thank you for reading, have a good day.
One other thing that needs to be addressed in PvP is slayers and drains because that has no place in PvP because you get them to stack them against people. For example, if 2-3 people on a team wearing a fighter slayers, the ward only affects but one so the bard, pally or whoever is going to keep getting destroyed. Those things shouldn't be in PvP. The new people get destroyed because all the top-end people are wearing slayers and drains and that's why the new people don't come in because they don't know about slayers and drains and their powers are getting diminished. If you go back and check and see when those things were introduced into PvP, you can see that PvP declined from that point forward. Instead of listening to a few people who don't hardly play PvP, they should get their item level up first before complaining about the game. You don't make PvE equal so PvP shouldn't. Take it from somebody who been playing PvP for a while.
General Psi-Lord out.
Devs Please address the elephant in the pvp room which is the stamina and action point drains that for some reason you love to keep in the game for that new player experience to really shine .. where the heck is removing the Hamster drains in your cpd proposal ?
"Rewards from playing PvP are bad outside of the season rewards, and do not help a player get better gear for PvP"
and so where are the proposals to revamp that ???
why are there a laundry list of issues raised in the cdp summary with no solutions provided from our feedback ?
@xavior44 lol all you want but you are supposed to be an officially named pvp community streamer and i dont seem to see any of your pvp feedback suggestions except hamster ....
I want to stress the point that a new mode is fine on paper, it really is, new content, with the goal of making pvp more attractive yada yada, but you need to see it from our perspective, we have been waiting for quality of life changes to the game mode we play for what seems like ages, a lot of the changes we want aren't actually that hard to implement, and are quite reasonable .
The community knows the time spent on this new mode will not be used to improve our experience, so if this is a fail, then we have come full circle and will have to wait god knows how long to actually see the changes that need to happen to make PvP a better experience for all .
Just as you cannot use companions, it would be interesting to create a pvp system that can only enter pvps items.
These items could be without enchantments, without slots to place, or even with specific pvp enchantments with a low maximum rank and more accessible to new players.
It is very annoying to have to change the equipment and remove the enchantments that I use in the pve to put in the Set pvp. It takes a lot of gold to get in and get a lot for those who have all the enchantments in the maximum rank.
it is very discouraging.
All that brought us the 16-19 module is a disappointment!
Players were taken 3 skill branches that were up to module 15 and gave them 10 skills, 3-4 of them are suitable skills. Now players will not be able to build their build that will set them apart from other players, because they will be like everyone else. It's a boring game when they are all the same.
This is not acceptable and needs to be fixed :
-control is summed up, a lot of control (
-There is no balance in the teams, those who are poorly equipped go into battle
- there is no balance between classes either
- three players of the same class fall into one team
- pvp with chicken is fun, but we hope it does not become permanent
As soon as we figured out the character’s game, you again begin to change everything. Not everyone can withstand this. And I'm tired too, and the community of pvp players from the RU server, too.
You say that you all cry and cry and do not give us rest!? Answer: we are afraid of your reforms! Because you do not solve problems and create new ones. The whole Neverwinter starting with module 16 is an experiment. And so far it has failed.
If I could, I would return the 15th module and leave it as it is with a small adjustment to the classes. And then I would disperse everyone who could ruin it.
NEED to make in each class a separate branch with pvp skills! This will draw a line between pvp and pve build and will give you the opportunity to fix errors without touching pve. Many games have gone along this path and it was successful.
P.S.: PVP RU server. Lion(Лев@lauralij)
Those that are complaining about no fixed classes or fixed loadouts profited from those that maxed their enchantments and sought after the BIS pve items to give them an edge in pvp. Point is, when you do things like that where one affects the other, you ruin both. A game's level of activity is sometimes shown by just how active its pvp can be as that is usually the first to die off due to whatever decisions are made.
The chicken pvp actually made pvp interesting as it left it down to luck and skill as that's how pvp should be. I play normally pve and the fact is that pvp actually made me try a few runs simply as it was more fun. There should be more holiday or campaigned themed pvp. No one should have a higher advantage than the other out of the scopes of that pool of abilities for pvp or pve. That said, items strictly for pvp should be introduced with currency that either helps only pvp but may offer cosmetics for pvp or pve.
The fixed loadouts idea I kinda like with the different races you could implement. I know there's a bird race from the elemental air area as well as wolves from around, all I have to say is try to get creative there and possibly make incentives for pvp rewards to unlock races or cosmetics of them for pve. There needs to be more beast and non human races besides dragonborn, maybe even make unlocks of them for pve.
Cosmetics and customization for each doesn't effect the play by much, but also give it distinct ways of letting anyone get more depth and involvement. As far as monetization goes, rewards should be more on the cosmetic side and grindable through pvp to get. Maybe some ad here or there and give dailies and weeklies for it. Give those a reason to run a few matches for pvp. There could be special cosmetics obtained like mounts, races, whatever. The point is that it doesn't dramatically effect pve and vice versa. The more you make a person able to customize that, the better.
Put pvp in a coliseum and any enchants that players use should be again tied to just pvp. Let your character be seen over a stable of selectable fixed races so atleast your character is seen around them.
Overall any changes you do should keep each separate and managable. So I kinda agree that the both PvE and PvP need separation. It's easier to balance them if they can't influence the other. Plus you can have different monitizations for each.
Again, those that complain and not wanting fixed things and changes to making their characters matter, PvP has been dead in this game for awhile. It's not going to bring in more people in its current iteration. With dungeons and dragons as a theme it should not be like other games, but it's own means.
My name is Aizu. I'll quickly share some pointers. This is coming from one of the most seasoned healers in Neverwinter PvP. Ask around, and maybe they'll agree.
1 - Remove RNG. Examples are invisibility and damage resistance on shadowclad. PvP is not reliant on skill because fights are also determined on whether someone critically strikes or deflects. It's luck and the severities are too high or the powers are not skill shots (i.e. TR daily with instant activation).
2 - Balance classes by asking seasoned players. This is in regards to magnitudes, class mechanics, powers etc. Here is an example: The smokebomb from TRs have too long duration, or too big radius, but it also doesn't show the red circle until much later. This power alone is overpowered. There is a reason why the leaderboards are filled of mostly select classes.
3 - Balance out at least armour enchants and weapon enchants. There are more, but this is a start.
4 - The new NPC pvp will kill the player base for pvp even more. The positive feedback for chicken and npc pvp is given by non-seasoned pvp players. This means q'ing for ordinary pvp will be even harder to balance and to actually make happen.
5 - Remove solo q. Let people join pvp in party. Who likes to join pvp and gamble on luck to get guildies in their team, or even worse, opposite team, all in order to try climb the leaderboard.
6 - I want to compliment the devs for making healing less dominant in PvP in mod 19, assuming this is the case. Make single target heal skill shot and AoE heals having less magnitude, which I think you did.
7 - Get back stamina and AP gain in pvp. Remove the stamina bar. Why have the stamina bar for PvE? Showing stamina bar in PvP lowers the skill in PvP even more.
8 - Make more rewards for PvP. Let us get something worth our time other than 15 min of fun or un-fun if our guildies get on the other team. It's not even possible to q up as 5 players anymore.
PvE content gives rewards. Let PvP do so too. The trophies at the end of a pvp season is good, assuming the q is balanced, which it's not (unfortunately). But as the rewards are now, the pvp is a chore for pvp players to get high enough rank to get the rewards all on the basis of pug-luck. Let each match give some reward worth our time.
Regards Aizu who plays Neverwinter only for PvP.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
The chicken PVP que's popularity did go down significantly towards the end of the April Fowls event. At the time when I first gave it a very positive feedback review on a different thread, it was more popular and hadn't died down any yet. I remember a lot of veteran players were playing it and did like it, but this type of que might not keep its magic long term if it became permanent and there were also some players in the veteran community that didn't touch it at all.
Furthermore, I agree with what several other experienced posters here have pointed out about some of the advocates of chicken PVP/heros PVP.
Many of the advocates probably won't play much of this new heros mode they are endorsing, they might play it a few times and then most of them would probably go back to doing only PVE.
There are a lot of players commenting that have little to no knowledge about this topic and I remember seeing one in here who outright said they don't care what happens to PVP.
The chicken PVP que likely would have retained its popularity for longer if it offered better rewards, especially if those rewards kept people coming back for more instead of 1 time earnings. But even with chicken PVP's lack of rewards taken into account, there is still the very real possibility that this que will die back a lot in the future and it probably will make it a lot harder to get the old PVP ques to pop. This difficulty getting old PVP pops is likely to be more of an issue while the hero's PVP is still new though, old PVP might pick back up some later.
To sum it up, this new heros PVP type is unlikely to be a suitable replacement for making fixes and doing updates to the old PVP system we already have in place. Making updates to the old system instead of doing hero's PVP is preferable and would produce much better results both short term and long term.
The old PVP system while it did dwindle due to long term neglect, it has proven that it can last, it has lasted 7 years already with very little maintenance. It is also worth mentioning that the leaderboard used to have over 2,000 pages of players, and it took a long time for the numbers of participants to drop anywhere near as low as they are today. Again, this drop was a result of neglect.
That, and its clear from what I'm seeing most PVP players say here and in other places that they would rather the devs work on improving the old PVP system using the feedback posted in this CDP instead of doing heros PVP. A ton of players I'm seeing on discord and in game don't like the heros PVP idea at all. its not even just BIS experienced players that don't like it, I'm even seeing some of the lowbies I help with builds and news say they don't like the idea of preset characters and think its a waste.
I will mention some of the good uses the heros/chicken PVP could have though:
-- It does allow for you to make premade PVP teams instead of forcing you to que solo, which could be used to train players how to rotate nodes in an environment where they don't need to worry about gearing up beforehand. This alone makes me think the new heros PVP would at the very least do better at improving conditions in PVP than introducing solo que did in the long term. It does open up more socializing opportunities for some guilds and communities in this game and makes it so you can now PVP with people who previously couldn't afford to commit to a PVP build.
-- It also probably would get some new PVPers hooked on PVP and more likely to take an interest in regular PVP. We do need more players and while heros PVP isn't the only or even the best idea for helping us retain more new players, it would help some. I don't think it will help as much as I had previously hoped though and heros PVP being implemented could also drive away a lot of the players we already have.
-- I personally would play the heros PVP some of the time, I wouldn't want it as the only option or the "main" type of PVP but I definitely would play it.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
We have to choose heroes in the future which are not even the existing classes in Neverwinter?
When I want to play with heroes I'm gonna play Dota or League of Legends or whatever. This is a MMORPG.
When you guys first made a CDP for pvp I was happy about it. Finally we old pvpers had hope that there might be changes towards pvp which let us have more fun. Good suggestions were made in the CDP - but now -- you guys wanna just create a fake LOL ?
Chicken pvp or pinguin pvp as a limited event is fun. But not permanently.
The new NPC pvp will reduce the player base for pvp even more. We had a lot of pvper coming back to Neverwinter because we had hope for improvement. We do enjoy building our pvp toons (as others do for pve). This is one of the core aspects of playing the game. Towards this there was a number of good proposals made in the CDP. Seems we do not have the ear of the developers. Seems cryptic listens to people who are not pvping at all.
Qing for ordinary pvp (season or private) will become harder now and it won't be improved since cryptic will put their
limited resources into NPC pvp. It is still not possible to queue for pvp with friends which is essential. Imagine the shitstorm when this won't be possible for pve players?
Suggestion: Treat PVP equal to PVE and choose knowledgable people instead of content creators.
At last: I have zero hope that this time you guys will listen to us. RIP
We have to choose heroes in the future which are not even the existing classes in Neverwinter?
When I want to play with heroes I'm gonna play Dota or League of Legends or whatever. This is a MMORPG.
When you guys first made a CDP for pvp I was happy about it. Finally we old pvpers had hope that there might be changes towards pvp which let us have more fun. Good suggestions were made in the CDP - but now -- ?
Chicken pvp or pinguin pvp as a limited event is fun. But not permanently.
The new NPC pvp will reduce the player base for pvp even more. We had a lot of pvper coming back to Neverwinter because we had hope for improvement. We do enjoy building our pvp toons (as others do for pve). This is one of the core aspects of playing the game. Towards this there was a number of good proposals made in the CDP. Seems we do not have the ear of the developers. Seems cryptic listens to people who are not pvping at all.
Qing for ordinary pvp (season or private) will become harder now and it won't be improved since cryptic will put their
limited resources into NPC pvp. It is still not possible to queue for pvp with friends which is essential. Imagine the uproar when
this won't be possible for pve players?
Suggestion: Treat PVP equal to PVE and choose knowledgable people instead of content creators.
At last: I have zero hope that this time you guys will listen to us. RIP
"Overall Problem:
Our current PvP approach doesn’t work for the majority of our audience which results in low PvP populations. Some of the concerns raised in the CDP are a direct result of this. For example, our PvP queues already try to match players by similar item levels, but it will only try that for a certain amount of time before matching together a random group. In the past this timer was longer, but due to the PvP community being small even with that longer delay we got the same imbalanced matches so we shortened the timer to reduce those waits.
This in turn results in newer players being put into matches with highly geared PvP veterans which is not a good experience. That bad experience makes those new players decide PvP isn’t as fun as they’d hoped it would be and they move on.
Even more geared and skilled players still struggle at times as they aren’t at the very top of how strongly they can be geared. This creates the call that PvP is “Pay to Win”. While we don’t feel that is quite an accurate statement, we do understand where the frustration is coming from.
One last side note since respawn timers came up. Those are a rolling respawn which means they aren’t your personal respawn timer but are instead your team’s. This is so that instead of players respawning one by one and trying to get back in the fight before others die, the team members who are dead can spawn together and do a coordinated attack. We should do a better job calling this out and displaying it for players"
I see a lot of people, that really care about PvP, posting ideas about how to make improvements for people that already want to PvP. But that doesn't really answer the question, though. Why don't new players want to PvP? How can we change that? What can we do to make new players look past the abuse, farming, and kicking, to see how fun PvP can really be? because, without new players, the only way to get more people playing, is if the people in this thread agree to sync time zones, & queue together. New players will need to be introduced to the game, bit by bit. At some stages they may even need to be led by the hand a bit. And there is nothing wrong with that. I think a good place to start, would be to turn on leveling queues again, at level 12 or 14 or wherever it used to start. Make entry level PvP gear available for gold in the Trade of Blades. After all, new players are not going to have any Glory to buy the gear, until they PvP...
I would like the devs to look at the PvP player numbers before and after they added solo q, look specifically around 6 months on either side (before and after), and one year on either side of that update, if you take into account normal player drop off, which is a thing all games experience, I am sure you will see a much larger drop off than what you would normally have seen, coincidence? no .
I see people always using the same worn out and inaccurate argument that premades where everywhere, farming new players and solo players, and this is why changes were made .
I pvp'd every day, I'm closing on the 8000h mark of what was mainly pvp oriented activities;
Did I premade? yeah sometimes, did we go in to farm pugs? no but sometimes that would happen while trying to snipe another premade, it was a bit hit and miss... and yes sniping was a lot funner than organising in a lot of cases, hard to be a tryhard when you get caught with your pants down, I also have been on the receiving end, this was one of the best aspects of PvP .
Did I play with one or 2 friends, yes, this was most of the time, equally skilled, or otherwise, I enjoy playing with my friends over VOIP .
Did I solo q? never! why would I? I am pretty social, and very community oriented .
Did I run into full premades? not often but it happened (people often confused non pre's for pre's, even if it was just a duo+trio of good players, real pvp premade players will remember, and knew the distinction kekw)
I'd even say some of my funnest games ever where duo/trio vs a pre .
Did the premades always win when we did run into them? no, no and no... do you know why? because people from every walk of this game would q up with friends and as semi or full premades, you would have pve guilds like Black lotus, mixed PvP guilds taking out fledgling recruits etc, you would have lowbies, and newbies running in either full pre's or 3-4 man groups, and more importantly people got to play with the people of their choosing, be it someone they took under their wing, a friend etc... Soloq removed/striped this from the game, the population nose dived, what do you expect, imagine if that was applied to PvE... are we even surprised here?
Not everything is hinging on the removal of solo q, is it the easiest fix though as long as other things get tweaked along side it .
That being said, adding better rewards for the PvP season was a good step, unfortunately without other changes this will make things worse for new players and those of us who don't farm on alts .
More people will q, which is good, but a lot of them will be farmed (because they are solo) or kicked from games by an overly kick happy community, implementing a recourse for getting kicked, like a report button, get reported enough for kicking and you are account locked out of PvP for x amount of time .
Better rewards also means more alt pvp, and instances of 3 or more healers a team, which is already rampant, and far from enjoyable, locking the reward to one per account would also help alleviate this issue, tweak the rewards if needed to compensate for that .
Last but not least, reducing the powercreep, this can be done in many ways, smarter people have already suggested ways of achieving this, things like PvP gear, and scaling, and others... all of these things when added together, would make PvP better for both the hardcore PvP players or the aspiring and curious .
I would like the devs to look at the PvP player numbers before and after they added solo q, look specifically around 6 months on either side (before and after), and one year on either side of that update, if you take into account normal player drop off, which is a thing all games experience, I am sure you will see a much larger drop off than what you would normally have seen, coincidence? no .
I see people always using the same worn out and inaccurate argument that premades where everywhere, farming new players and solo players, and this is why changes were made .
I pvp'd every day, I'm closing on the 8000h mark of what was mainly pvp oriented activities;
Did I premade? yeah sometimes, did we go in to farm pugs? no but sometimes that would happen while trying to snipe another premade, it was a bit hit and miss... and yes sniping was a lot funner than organising in a lot of cases, hard to be a tryhard when you get caught with your pants down, I also have been on the receiving end, this was one of the best aspects of PvP .
Did I play with one or 2 friends, yes, this was most of the time, equally skilled, or otherwise, I enjoy playing with my friends over VOIP .
Did I solo q? never! why would I? I am pretty social, and very community oriented .
Did I run into full premades? not often but it happened (people often confused non pre's for pre's, even if it was just a duo+trio of good players, real pvp premade players will remember, and knew the distinction kekw)
I'd even say some of my funnest games ever where duo/trio vs a pre .
Did the premades always win when we did run into them? no, no and no... do you know why? because people from every walk of this game would q up with friends and as semi or full premades, you would have pve guilds like Black lotus, mixed PvP guilds taking out fledgling recruits etc, you would have lowbies, and newbies running in either full pre's or 3-4 man groups, and more importantly people got to play with the people of their choosing, be it someone they took under their wing, a friend etc... Soloq removed/striped this from the game, the population nose dived, what do you expect, imagine if that was applied to PvE... are we even surprised here?
Not everything is hinging on the removal of solo q, is it the easiest fix though as long as other things get tweaked along side it .
That being said, adding better rewards for the PvP season was a good step, unfortunately without other changes this will make things worse for new players and those of us who don't farm on alts .
More people will q, which is good, but a lot of them will be farmed (because they are solo) or kicked from games by an overly kick happy community, implementing a recourse for getting kicked, like a report button, get reported enough for kicking and you are account locked out of PvP for x amount of time .
Better rewards also means more alt pvp, and instances of 3 or more healers a team, which is already rampant, and far from enjoyable, locking the reward to one per account would also help alleviate this issue, tweak the rewards if needed to compensate for that .
Last but not least, reducing the powercreep, this can be done in many ways, smarter people have already suggested ways of achieving this, things like PvP gear, and scaling, and others... all of these things when added together, would make PvP better for both the hardcore PvP players or the aspiring and curious .
Rewards earned at the end of the match, let alone the end of the season, don't matter to players that get kicked. They get nothing. Whether they queue or not. How are we supposed to report the players that abuse the kicks without knowing who that is, exactly? I've never seen a report indicating who instigated a kick. Or who voted, for or against.
As for the kicking I agree, that is why a recourse should be implemented, they should know who kicked them, get a pop up window with were you kicked for any of the above reasons, yes or no? if you say no, the players is flagged by the system, and will eventually get punished for it, the only good reason to kick someone is they are afk or disconnected, you wanted soloq randomness, deal with the randomness .
Back in the day big guilds had a pvp etiquette, agreeing not to use broken items, not abusing kicking etc were common in most respectable PvP guilds, this has been lost completely, I would argue the game has never been in a worse place for new PvP players .
"Did I solo q? never! why would I? I am pretty social, and very community oriented ."
I never ran pre-made. I only ever solo queued. Did I face a pre-made every single time? no. But most of the PUG vs. PUG matches I got were under level 60. Once I hit 60, the pre-mades popped up more & more often. By the time I got close to 70, it was 9/10 or so. There was a reason why the PvP poulation doubled during the solo-queue special events.
As for ettiquette, not all of the guilds felt the need to respect those rules, when they were playing against teams that weren't in the right guild...
Furthermore, this CDP had numerous good ideas posted for helping newer players get a better experiance in PVP and reducing the gear gap, its not just experienced players the experienced players tried to help. They suggested many things like a usable basic PVP gear set you buy for 1 copper, enchantments and insignias that have no stats in PVE but scale up to a high rank in PVP, scaling players up or down in PVP so they are all roughly the same item level, removing or restricting kick voting, improved rewards, disabling certain types of equipment in PVP like insignia/mount powers, a PVP tutorial video, the list goes on.
Edit, I realized you suggested the entry level gear idea in here, I'm going to leave this post up since I'm not sure if you realized that was one of the idea experianced players put fowards or not, you seem like you are saying we didn't offer anything to help new players.
PVP Rogue,
--[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
----------------------------------------------------------------
Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
Platform: PC
Necessary :
-give good rewards like in PVE!This will give a good online in PVP!
-when there is a big online you can organize tournaments for each class 1x1, mixed 3x3, 5x5 with good prizes. So that only those who participated in the PVP tournaments could have such prizes and this was valuable.
This is what the PVP will revive in Neverwinter !!!
And only when people will massively play in PVP then will it be possible to make a balance (to separate the weak from the strong). 1 player PVP card is collected for the whole evening, on good days 2 cards. HEAR US.
P.S.: PVP RU server. Lion(Лев@lauralij)
> The most important issues at this moment in pvp and the things that have to be fixed are:
>
> -Paladin sigil ( the healing and damage resistance it gives is really game breaking and especially when there is many of them on each team)
>
> -The healing atm is pretty high in pvp and it should significantly decreased
>
> -Shadowclad is overpowered and it overshadows all the other armor
...And that's why they keep nerfing our pve stuff bc they're too powerful when used in pvp. But not everybody is into pvp so they should leave this items exactly as they are.
The main reason to have separate gear to be used only and exclusively for pvp. We already have but its outdated gear.