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CDP Topic: PvP

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  • abn173d2003#3683 abn173d2003 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    @thefabricant I like the idea, the only issue I see is the same thing that happens in icewind pass, people start relying on their companions to get the kills
  • rangerreekrangerreek Member Posts: 56 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    In other games that I have played I enjoyed playing in PvP. Everytime I try to engage in NW I am met with frustration. Not only on my end but also from the viewpoint of veteran PvP players. It is very hard to progress in PvP in NW unless you make it your main focus. This is just an opinion I have. I play NW mainly for the PvE and social aspects of the game, and as we all know it can be expensive to build characters in this game. Add another build to that and I have no time to participate in other areas of the game I enjoy.
    I would love to be able to participate in PvP and not feel like a liability.
    PvP as it stands now is an exclusive community (not meant to sound derogatory, as I am aware of the hard work that the Main PvPers put into their builds) and really alienates a great number of players that would like to try a system in NW that could be really fun. My Alliance runs a weekly PvP night where we privately queue and have it each other.
    There are so many things that could be done in PvP to allow more inclusiveness but my focus in this feedback will tackle a different PvP mode.



    Feedback Overview:

    In Dungeons and Dragons there are many iconic characters that we come across through our adventures, I propose that we add a "Legends" mode. In some of the novelizations they refer to champions of a deity as a Chosen, i.e. Cattiebrie is a chosen of Mystra. This would be a separate PvP instance wgere players take up an avatar of an iconic character from the Realms. Good or Evil there is a multitude of characters to choose from.

    Feedback Goal:

    The goal of this proposal will be to be inviting to a larger number of players without concern for equipment, enchantment, or other item management.

    Feedback Functionality:

    Every player would get to choose a starter "Chosen" and then be able to enter into queued PvP content. These characters will have set gear, power, feat, and artifcat abilities that are static for that character. Through PvP currency, Zen, and/or achievements players will be add new "Chosen" to their libraries. Each "Chosen" (or variation of i.e. Cattiebrie wasn't always the Chosen of Mystra and wielded Taulmaril as an accomplished archer) would have thier own abilities specific to them allowing for a large variance in game play. Not having to worry about item or equipment management or purchasing would alleviate some stress for people looking to enter into the realm of PvP. With the proposed "Super-Store" you could easily add new Chosen on a weekly, monthly, permanent basis.
    A mode like this would be in addition to the regular PvP not in lieu of. It would add another option for players to explore PvP in a an environment that is fun, inclusive, and accessible by all levels of players.

    Risks & Concerns:

    My main concern with a mode like this would be on a systems level which I don't have a great understanding of to begin with.

    @tankready#0772 linked an article earlier in the forum. My idea stems from my time in DCUO, a game I played from Beta up through the SOE to Daybreak switch, in where I almost exclusively played in the Legends PvP. Most of my proposal mirrors what I think is an amazing PvP experience.
    Post edited by rangerreek on
    Fight with honor, die with glory!
  • bpstuartbpstuart Member Posts: 232 Arc User

    In other games that I have played I enjoyed playing in PvP. Everytime I try to engage in NW I am met with frustration. Not only on my end but also from the viewpoint of veteran PvP players. It is very hard to progress in PvP in NW unless you make it your main focus. This is just an opinion I have. I play NW mainly for the PvE and social aspects of the game, and as we all know it can be expensive to build characters in this game. Add another build to that and I have no time to participate in other areas of the game I enjoy.
    I would love to be able to participate in PvP and not feel like a liability.
    PvP as it stands now is an exclusive community (not meant to sound derogatory, as I am aware of the hard work that the Main PvPers put into their builds) and really alienates a great number of players that would like to try a system in NW that could be really fun. My Alliance runs a weekly PvP night where we privately queue and have it each other.
    There are so many things that could be done in PvP to allow more inclusiveness but my focus in this feedback will tackle a different PvP mode.



    Feedback Overview:

    In Dungeons and Dragons there are many iconic characters that we come across through our adventures, I propose that we add a "Legends" mode. In some of the novelizations they refer to champions of a deity as a Chosen, i.e. Cattiebrie is a chosen of Mystra. This would be a separate PvP instance wgere players take up an avatar of an iconic character from the Realms. Good or Evil there is a multitude of characters to choose from.

    Feedback Goal:

    The goal of this proposal will be to be inviting to a larger number of players without concern for equipment, enchantment, or other item management.

    Feedback Functionality:

    Every player would get to choose a starter "Chosen" and then be able to enter into queued PvP content. These characters will have set gear, power, feat, and artifcat abilities that are static for that character. Through PvP currency, Zen, and/or achievements players will be add new "Chosen" to their libraries. Each "Chosen" (or variation of i.e. Cattiebrie wasn't always the Chosen of Mystra and wielded Taulmaril as an accomplished archer) would have thier own abilities specific to them allowing for a large variance in game play. Not having to worry about item or equipment management or purchasing would alleviate some stress for people looking to enter into the realm of PvP. With the proposed "Super-Store" you could easily add new Chosen on a weekly, monthly, permanent basis.
    A mode like this would be in addition to the regular PvP not in lieu of. It would add another option for players to explore PvP in a an environment that is fun, inclusive, and accessible by all levels of players.

    Risks & Concerns:

    My main concern with a mode like this would be on a systems level which I don't have a great understanding of to begin with.

    @tankready#0772 linked an article earlier in the forum. My idea stems from my time in DCUO, a game I played from Beta up through the SOE to Daybreak switch, in where I almost exclusively played in the Legends PvP. Most of my proposal mirrors what I think is an amazing PvP experience.

    ^See this? This would be an answer to the question "If you do not play PvP, what do you feel it would take to get you to try it out for a bit?"

    I would absolutely love to Play as Cadderly Bondiduce or Elminster and fight against someone doing the same. No boosts from lootboxs, grinding, Best in show gear, or the like. 2 players, equal characters, nothing but a skill slug match.

    I know i said i wasn't competitive in an earlier post, but i think i would be intrigued with this kind of fight even if i never won.
    Ego etiam cupo recrari et amari diu post mortem meam
    I too wish to be recreated, and to be loved long after my death.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234 gromovnipljesak Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User

    Hey everyone - I really appreciate all of this feedback and suggestions.

    I have a question for you folks though, based on your current opinion of PvP.

    If you do not play PvP, what do you feel it would take to get you to try it out for a bit?

    If you do occasionally play PvP, What do you feel it would take to make it more of a daily routine for you?

    If you play PvP frequently, do you feel like the time you spent in there isn't wasted? And if so, what do you feel would make your time investment feel more respected?

    Again, thank you everyone for your posts. I love seeing this discussion.

    It essentially is of no relevance to me - I tried PVP, I got curb stomped by a TR when Shadow of Demise was one-shotting my 300k HP paladin a year or so ago, and I decided "nah".

    Separate the balance of PVP and PVE - from the ground up. But make it so that your progress in PVP gives you something in PVE, and vice versa. It doesn't have to be something insane - maybe an item such as a mount that has a decent bonus or a companion that would be BTC but is actually usable.
    Or if you really want people to run PvP to be endgame ready, make a boon that increases your max crit chance by like 5% or smth.
    Basically, make something relevant throughout the entire game, especially in the endgame, accessible through content other than simply PvE. People who intended to PvP primarily have first got to level up and get some decent enchants in PvE - that's how ya do it. So to PvP you must PvE. So don't make it a *must* play PvP to be good in PvE but leave it at "definitely a nice bonus".
  • kegsondeck#2000 kegsondeck Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    I am really enjoying the conversation and the ideas that are coming from it.

    But here we are (on Xbox) 2+ weeks into a mod. Where the biggest and most game-breaking issue is occurring repeatedly with no fix in sight..

    At the beginning of EVERY game of Domination at least 1 team (usually both) have at least 1 player disconnect. This usually results in one team going up 200-300 points with a triple cap by the time people load back in.

    But wait, here comes round 2. When the originally disconnected people re-join the game there is a new wave of disconnects that affect the rest of the players. It is common-place to have upwards of 3-4 players disconnected at a time.

    OK - so you made it through those first disconnects and things seem to be stabilizing. But, not so fast, now that you're down 450-500 points, little jimmy is up by the campfire refusing to play.

    ...vote to kick.

    ...everyone DC's again into oblivion.

    A PvP tale.

    This is Every. Game.
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,130 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Issue: RNG Based Respawn Timers

    I've mentioned elsewhere how there is currently too much RNG involved in fights and it lowers the skill cap too much and how too many RNG factors in matchmaking/advancing on the leaderboard is one of the biggest things that frustrates/stresses out players. Here is another area that RNG is involved with and shouldn't be:

    Respawn timers in this game appear to be randomized for some reason. You could get a 15 second respawn one time and the next, you get an instant respawn. This makes it so there is another unnecessary luck variable that impacts match outcomes.

    Proposed Solution:

    Change the respawn timer system to no longer be RNG based. As examples, you could make it so the respawn timers gradually get longer as a match wears on or make them always the same number.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,130 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    The Best Proposals I've Heard For Separating PVP From PVE:

    A longstanding issue in this game is the persistent conflict of interest between PVP and PVE players when it comes to balancing things like abilities and items. This game has a long history of nerfs, buffs, and adjustments that benefit one game mode and harm the other.

    A lot of people want more separation between PVE and PVP. I have been less involved in pushing this issue as of late but figured I'd mention the best two versions of this separation I've come across. That, and from what I understand, Chris has mentioned this topic before on stream.

    Idea #1) Launching another Neverwinter server for PVP that is similar to how the preview and live servers function.

    Why a server instead of a whole new game?
    I've thought about the making an entirely separate game idea for PVP before but honestly, I don't like it. Mainly because of the social difficulties this would create, it would make interacting with guildmates and friends harder to do and would force my guild to restart guild progress if they set up a branch in both games. I would also have to start over completely under that scenario, meaning all mounts, transmutes, items, unlocks, ect I've accumulated over time would be gone. Some of this can't be replaced or would be astronomically expensive to even attempt to replace.

    So, instead of doing a whole separate game if a major attempt is made to separate PVP from PVE, my support goes to the separate server idea. You'd still be able to put PVP talored rules, separate ability functions, item modifications ect in place under this suggestion but you'd be able to transfer characters over to this new PVP server. 

    Upon transfer, whatever differences the PVP server has from the PVE server would be applied to that character. As an example, lets say mounts didn't grant any stats on the PVP server but they do on the PVE server, you'd keep the mount skin after transferring the character to the PVP server but the stats would be disabled.

    Idea #2) Expanding the existing system of adding separate PVE and PVP ability functions to items/powers and making it more consistent.

    A lot of items and powers in this game already have some PVP/PVE differences coded between them. For example, some mount powers have shorter CC duration in PVP than in PVE and they state this in their tooltip. Some items in this game like the envenomed journal also have this kind of coding in place but don't actually mention this anywhere.

    This system could be improved upon by creating two separate versions of each power and item in the game. One only applies in PVP and the others apply everywhere else. Sort of like how when you walk onto the sahaa field in the summer festival, your PVE powers get replaced with new sahaa powers. This way whenever the devs need to adjust something for PVP but not PVE, they can modify the PVP version of that power without affecting the PVE version. 

    Not all powers and items will need separated functions. However, its best to still have a duplicate copy of all powers and items just in case. Sometimes a power or item that was previously working fine later becomes op or underpowered in PVP or PVE.

    Implementation Issues I forsee:

    Separating PVP from PVE under either of these proposals is likely to be one of the more resource intensive updates to PVP and PVE that could be made. However, I don't doubt that a ton of resources over the years have gone into fixing all the little balance headaches that have sprung up because there wasn't enough separation between PVE and PVP. This is likely to be one of those updates that reduces Cryptic's expenses and workload a lot in other areas long term.
    Post edited by trgluestickz on
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • kegsondeck#2000 kegsondeck Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    @trgluestickz
    I think the respawn timers are set in a rolling fashion; it could be every 20 seconds from what I see.

    It was probably done like this so that all dead players (from both teams) spawn back in at the same time.

    I agree that it's RNG, I see where you're coming from, but I only half agree.

    In a premade game - or super competitive one, a death needs to be high impact as there are generally fewer - a mandatory 15 second reapawn would be every impactful. Whereas if they get lucky and spawn immediately it could completely negate a major play.

    In a non-competitive game with many deaths, having people not spawn in with their team means they could be more easily camp fired. Because their full strength is always lagging behind. (Obviously this could be remedied by waiting for your team to respawn - but you know what it's like in solo Q, is that likely? Lol - it could just inadvertently generate a new barrier to inexperienced players)

    I'm not saying you're wrong - just unsure how to change it for the better. Maybe you keep the current system in solo Q, and have a mandatory respawn timer in the premade Q?
  • wilbur626wilbur626 Member Posts: 982 Arc User
    > @abn173d2003#3683 said:
    > @thefabricant I like the idea, the only issue I see is the same thing that happens in icewind pass, people start relying on their companions to get the kills

    Companions and bondings should be deactivaded as soon as the player is flagged for PVP. Less gear/investment needed to play PvP content = more players playing PvP
    Elite Whaleboy
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,130 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    The State Of Class Balance In PVP:

    I am not going to offer any suggestions related to class balance in this thread, Instead I'm going to describe the current state of class balance in PVP on PC as I see it:

    Right now, class balance in PVP is at the best point I've seen it at in recent memory. The classes are much closer together in performance now than they were for most of this game's history. There are still some small issues and differences in class performance but overall, I don't have many complaints right now.

    I've also been learning more about how classes preform in premade conditions as of late, there are some differences between most useful/powerful classes in solo que and most useful/powerful classes in premades. It also becomes more important to look at how strong and useful the class is when played skillfully and at max potential rather than just how they do compared to other classes on average and effort required to become powerful. Paying attention to counter class dynamics and comps also becomes more important here.

    When mod 18 first dropped, I was under the impression fighter would be the the strongest class but in reality it might just be a little easier to play compared to other dps classes right now, so slightly op but not last season's shield wizard levels of op. They are probably the most useful class for comboing with other dps classes to clear enemies in premades and they naturally advance on the leaderboard a little bit easier than other classes do.

    Wizard, ranger, rogue, and dps cleric are all still really powerful and are able to compete with fighters, that much is clear.

    Wizard in particular is in unique place balancewise. They have the strongest damage arc out of any class and are highly desirable in premades. The tradeoff is they have a very high skill curve in order to tap into their strengths but skilled wizards are the most powerful class still. Most wizards have not reached the skill required to preform at this capacity and many people still believe they are too weak.

    Cleric is also really strong, the dps version can go toe to toe with the classes I mentioned above and have some areas where they could be considered op, they can be very tanky and still dish out very high damage and don't need as much crit as other classes do. The healer version is really powerful too despite not rising much on leaderboard.

    Rogue has probably the biggest hits out of any class but are balanced out from being squishy and having more limited max potential than some of the other classes. They have an intermediate skill curve I'd say. They seem to have more trouble than rangers do advancing on leaderboards but its very slight. Rogue is probably more useful than ranger is in a premade setting but both have their uses.

    Rangers are really good fast clearers but tend not to fair as well as other classes in longer fights. They also have one of the highest skill curves to play the max potential squishy version but still advance on leaderboards quite well.

    Warlock and barbarian are also stronger than most people realize, they are still slightly behind the other classes on PC but they are still able to compete with the first 5 classes I mentioned in a team situation and depending on the difference in skill. There is currently 1 warlock on PC who is competitive due to being amazing at rotating and a barbarian has gotten into top 3 before.

    The only class that still appears to be too weak in PVP is paladin. They are the second best healer in terms of raw healing power in premades but they also are the easiest healer to kill and extremely slow. Tank spec is nearly useless in PVP since playing pure tank in PVP is the least useful way to build a character.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • abn173d2003#3683 abn173d2003 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    @froger the only issue with using companions and bondings in pvp is that it gives newer pvp players a false sense of thier toon. once they go into a domination match and realize that thier stats are not right they don't come back and dot ask for help most of the time
  • fludizzfludizz Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Feedback Overview - PvP removal from game
    Feedback Goal - Free funds and resources for other parts of the game
    Feedback functionality - The game losses a lot of abysmal acting players (kicking, calling names, bad behavior and bad PR in forums/websites outside cryptic own servers)
    Risks & Concerns - Possible small zen sale drop

    Explanation:
    Since the start of the game, there has been a strong anti "pro"pvp player tendency with pushing as many and as fast as possible not incrowed players from playing PvP. With this behavior PvP has become a waste land, with most of the "real"pvp players not wanting to chance that behavior. And with the group of active PvP players getting smaller, this behavior is effectivly amplified.
    This makes investing any funds/resources into PvP, imho, a waste.
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,130 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    wilbur626 said:


    Companions and bondings should be deactivaded as soon as the player is flagged for PVP. Less gear/investment needed to play PvP content = more players playing PvP

    I like the idea of being able to use companions and bondings in PVP. I ask why not have both? There could be different open world zones with different PVP rules.
    Because existence of companions in open world zones has a lot to do with why icewind dale PVP is pretty much dead except for a small group of trolls. The community there has become reliant on their many overpowered pets, many of the people there don't even know how to build toons for PVP you que for and I regularly saw things like people stacking tons of CC proc pets, broken heals, damage off the charts, ect last time I was there.

    Companions are terrible for PVP, they aren't made with PVP in mind, they are balanced for PVE and grossly overpowered in PVP. The last time even just some pets were working in the PVP ques, which wasn't that long ago, it was a disaster, people were constantly healing to max from busted healing pets like bulette pup and pig and the massive hp and stat pool they introduced caused some classes to become overpowered due to benefiting from them more than other classes.

    Pets in PVP also add a massive amount to the costs to build a maxed out PVP toon, pets are expensive, even more so if upgrading another set just for PVP.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • leadsaidleadsaid Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    @abn173d2003#3683 Curious - how important do you feel it is for PVP to involve your PVE character? Is this generally a thing?
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,130 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    leadsaid said:

    @abn173d2003#3683 Curious - how important do you feel it is for PVP to involve your PVE character? Is this generally a thing?

    PVE character? You do realize a lot of us don't designate a character as PVE only or PVP only? We use same characters for both and just change loadouts. The exception for me at least is if the character is too undergeared to use in both settings.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • leadsaidleadsaid Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    @trgluestickz yeah I get that - that's why I asked: how Important is that to you? As in, If your PVP character had to be totally separate from your PVE character is that just totally uninteresting? I am not in any way attempting to imply your feelings on the matter one way or the other are wrong.
  • abn173d2003#3683 abn173d2003 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    @leadsaid I agree with @trgluestickz i use my charater for both PVE and PVP. and I have learned more about my class through PVP than through PVE
  • leadsaidleadsaid Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    @abn173d2003#3683 So I understand that PVE and PVP characters are one and the same today - what I am asking is - if that was no longer true - would you still be interested in PVP. And perhaps since you touched on it, what if the PVP mechanics were different (say, different abilities altogether)
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,130 Arc User
    leadsaid said:

    @trgluestickz yeah I get that - that's why I asked: how Important is that to you? As in, If your PVP character had to be totally separate from your PVE character is that just totally uninteresting? I am not in any way attempting to imply your feelings on the matter one way or the other are wrong.

    Depends on what you mean, I'd proposed a couple options for the separate PVP from PVE crowd earlier. If I have to completely make another character from scratch, not liking that idea but there are other means of separating PVP from PVE I like better.

    If this is related to @abn173d2003#3683 trying to defend PVP's existence, not 100% sure I understand your point. I probably won't respond again.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • leadsaidleadsaid Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    @trgluestickz I'm not making a point - I'm trying to understand. I'll take a closer look upstream at your suggestions. I imagine there are some players who relish PVP as a chance to show off the hard work they've done in PVE. For those people I assume the idea of separating PVE from PVP is anathema. I'm curious how common that is.
  • abn173d2003#3683 abn173d2003 Member Posts: 28 Arc User
    @leadsaid what I am trying to say is that I learned more about my classes mechanics in PVE than in PVP. What i mean with that is in PVE if you make a mistake you have someone there to cover you, in PVP that is not always the case. One of my earlier posts about bringing tenacidy back and separating PVE gear out of PVP is a form of separating the two modes. If I would have to get PVP specific gear, no issue, If I have to build a new charater from scratch on the other hand, why? I have spent six years building and reworking my character to the way i like it. I dont want to have to go through all of that again because I had to. We had that before mod 12. When Mod 12B or 13 came out (I can't remember Witch for sure) and gave us loadouts, it made the game easier for players to have load sets for PVE and PVP on the same Character. saving time and effort on the player. Truth is, A lot can be learned about the character you use in PVP that translates over to PVE. Maybe not the loadouts in particular, but the Class core mechanics do.
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    @fludizz that suggestion would hurt the game more than you think. A lot of the big PVP players are also Endgame PVE players as well, Removing PVP would cause a bigger exit than you know on both PVE and PVP.

    It wouldn't. lol. there are very few dedicated pvp ers left. if there were that many than why do you constantly get people going que solo dom. for hours on end. it means no one is queing for it. it only takes 10 to have a game.

    getting rid of it would be very low impact.

    although... I don't think getting rid of it is entirely necessary though. just stop supporting it.


    I think there are things they could do to bring some people back to it. but I don't know if there is any way of saving it to the point it's vastly popular again. it seems like the amount of work needed to make it palatable for the majority is a risky endeavor because it might work and it might not work. D and D just isn't a solid platform for pvp. it isn't what D and D or this spin off of d and d is really all about. and the biggest problem with the game isn't the game itself it's the toxic of the player base and I honestly don't know how they'll conquer that. Just go thru and read the comments from people who were responding about what it would take to get them back in the game. the universal comment is it's so toxic.

  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,130 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    leadsaid said:

    @trgluestickz I'm not making a point - I'm trying to understand. I'll take a closer look upstream at your suggestions. I imagine there are some players who relish PVP as a chance to show off the hard work they've done in PVE. For those people I assume the idea of separating PVE from PVP is anathema. I'm curious how common that is.

    -- Some PVPers prefer PVP but do still enjoy some PVE
    -- There are also people who only PVE because they have to in order to maintain their character in PVP.
    -- Others are PVE main and started getting into PVP at some point, a lot of PC's TOMM crowd started PVPing recently as one example.
    -- There is also the "PVP princess" crowd who hate doing PVE enough that they refuse to grind at all or will only grit their teeth for the bare minimum. They either pay a lot of money or already quit because they can't afford it.

    I don't see many people who are adamantly against the idea of separating PVP from PVE but exactly what degree of separation PVPers support is variable. A big part of that is how much of people's gear and other progress on their character are they comfortable with losing and the other part is how various amounts of separation impact people's social circles.

    This really is my last reply, don't want to fill this thread with too many replies.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    leadsaid said:

    @trgluestickz I'm not making a point - I'm trying to understand. I'll take a closer look upstream at your suggestions. I imagine there are some players who relish PVP as a chance to show off the hard work they've done in PVE. For those people I assume the idea of separating PVE from PVP is anathema. I'm curious how common that is.

    -- Some PVPers prefer PVP but do still enjoy some PVE
    -- There are also people who only PVE because they have to in order to maintain their character in PVP.
    -- Others are PVE main and started getting into PVP at some point, a lot of PC's TOMM crowd started PVPing recently as one example.
    -- There is also the "PVP princess" crowd who hate doing PVE enough that they refuse to grind at all or will only grit their teeth for the bare minimum. They either pay a lot of money or already quit because they can't afford it.

    I don't see many people who are adamantly against the idea of separating PVP from PVE but exactly what degree of separation PVPers support is variable. A big part of that is how much of people's gear and other progress on their character are they comfortable with losing and the other part is how various amounts of separation impact people's social circles.

    This really is my last reply, don't want to fill this thread with too many replies.
    the question the pvpers who might not be thrilled with separation would be, do they want more people to play with or not? because hte separation of the two systems in entirety is the thing that would bring more people into it. Most pvp gear is still viable in pve. so decoupling them wouldn't destroy all value. if done right the new system would be decoupled so new gear should be more effective and more interesting than what is in place now. and hopefully would just be inherent to the new pvp system so not taking up bag space.
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