test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

CDP Topic: PvP

2456711

Comments

  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I am also reviewing all Pvp posts and will have summaries on major issues proposed so far as well as some of my
    own .. I have hundreds of posts of feedback in the pvp forums section and i will be going over them and snipping the best most relevant parts ..

    GOAL:
    low hanging fruit... delete the damm drains : d
    @devs you want fair Pvp Matches with rewards Right ?
    HOW are new people supposed to get into fair balanced Pvp if their guild does not have wards to counter drains ...they cant ....

    Only cowards use drains .. its Like saying have this ward and i will fight you on an even playing field .. .dont have a stamina drain wards ? ...then you deserve to lose by being completely immobilized and your dailies stripped ....and turned into a target dummy ..there already are target dummy inthe trade of blade folks we dont need to be one in a live match .

    using drains is NOT a "strategic build choice" the rational ..cause the guy has better gear/class then you.. and then you go on to drain someone who is not a threat with worse gear then you oh the hypocrisy .

    1 .for starters the stronghold pvp boons need to go/ and or be reworked
    and overload drains removed / disabled from game play .. they are no longer relevant

    REASONING:
    Action point and stamina drains were introduced as a poorly conceived bandaid to run away power creap in pvp many many many mods ago ..
    its now mod 18 since mod 16 rework to classes Pvp / pve dailies frequency / ability to cast are now slow and stamina gain is now extra slow in pvp .. no need to "balance it" by toxically draining opponents
    of thier daily and stamina .. which is devastating on blocking classes/ many classes basic mechanics . ..further more the drain drains more then the wards can block so its basically uncounterable ...

    In the Past ..the dev already nerfed drains 3 times in a row but did not remove them as they could not find ways to replace the stronghold boons at the time that provide them(as the reasoning /excuse ) The pvp population just bleed/ declined cause of them.. Small guilds could not complete due to very very very expensive uppgrades even required to purchase the wards ) .. new players are not in a level 20 guild and cant even counter/ purchase wards at all .. get drained of thier dailies and never queue again ..

    SUPPORTING documentation:
    911 OVERLOAD DRAINS ARE BROKEN IN PVP AND THEIR ASSOCIATED GUILD BOONS PLZ REMOVE THEM
    post /examples can be found here with more details about this

    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1251208/911-overload-drains-are-broken-in-pvp-and-their-associated-guild-boons-plz-remove-them/p1

    GOAL / REASONING
    low hanigng fruit ..

    2. stop putting people into losing pvp matches that the score is hundreds of points to 0 that is waste of time for all parties... or the Queue pop should tell them they will be going into an existing match and the player can decide .. or remove kicking ....unless a player is idle for more then a minute or campfire ..then auto disconnect
    its really annoying getting put into a hopeless match and losing ranking cause of rampant kicking ..
    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • vitherborthvitherborth Member Posts: 16 Arc User


    First, pure equalization. All classes enter into a PvP match with the same fundamental gear, artifacts and stats designed specifically for PvP content. This will offer the PvP player the opportunity to get experience, build their combat senses and possibly find some semblance of enjoyment in the experience. They should also be able to earn currency that would go towards my next suggestion.

    PvP specific gear tab akin to PvE equipment and Appearance items. These should be earned pieces of equipment that reward the player for competing in the balanced arena. They can earn bonus currency for completing this and have the opportunity test out their skills against other players with similarly earned equipment. Until an equipment piece is earned, they would enter into the area, if they so chose to, with their balanced PvP equipment only.

    As for the PvP stpecific abilities, I don’t mean to create whole new abilities but instead create a subtext of current abilities that state its effectiveness in PvP. Far too often the game is attempting to cater to this delicate balance between PvE and PvP when it comes to skills. Some skills have a small but noticeable footnote stating its different effects in PvP. I would implore you to expound upon that and make it so that you can balance the game and powers more effectively by having each ability have it’s own specific PvE and PvP impact. Yes, that does mean more time but, it also lessens the burden of worrying about how an ability might adversely impact PvE or PvP when you can separate the two in that manner.

    i agree with this, i too didn't play pvp because the most of those that do pvp have enchantments, insignias, etc maxed making a really tough opponents.
    For those ppl the reward from pvp (pvp seasons) aren't really useful but they are for a new player, a solution is the idea of creating at least two league.
    League one: all enter pvp with same armor and weapon, no campaign boons, companion, buff, etc and they can earn the stuff from the pvp seasons rewards, stacking glory to buy armor,weapon and other stuff specific to pvp, and gain the pvp boons.
    League two: you enter pvp with all of your stuff your armor, weapon enchantment, boons, companion, etc and you gain glory (more than in league 1) to buy your gear, and in the pvp season another set of rewards that are useful to end-game player (that will not be sold for some ad on ah, or put on an alt).

    This way you can increase the numbers of ppl that do pvp promoting non capped player to try it because the only difference is in experience, but that can be gained in less time that a completely capped character.

    There can be added another league for those that care only for pvp, there nothing from pve can be used, so you have to gain all with glory (or maybe zen if you make a pvp pack) and create specific enchantment only for this league
  • ankhornankhorn Member Posts: 31 Arc User

    Give me a reason to justify my time spent in PVP and I'll play win, lose, or draw but if only the BiS get rewarded then how can a scrub like me ever advance and be competitive?


    Totally appreciate this point.
    ~Neverwinter Foooools!!!!
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,119 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    Hey folks! Both @rhroudadev#5641 and I are following this thread so thank you all for the great comments so far. Special shout out to those who work with the feedback format - even when not used exactly as stated, it really does help when there is some sort of structure to a comment!

    There's a lot here already (I have 2 pages of notes just from this first page of comments!) but there's a couple points brought up by various people that I'd love to hear more on:

    1) Issue: Equalizing/Balancing the game/Making PvP more accessible but also not hurting/hindering/punishing long-time PvP players. I've heard some proposals like have different tiers/modes of PvP but could folks expand more on how they would approach the issue in a realistic way?

    2) Solo Queue: This was actually a feature that was made permanent soon after I started at Cryptic. Initially it was offered as an occasional weekend event and a number of players clamored for it to be permanent. Could players on both sides of the argument (remove it/keep it) give specific examples on how it impacts the PvP landscape?

    @nitocris83 , This post should thoroughly answer your questions about solo que and gets into tiers/modes a little bit, I'll go over the arguments people make for and against solo que and will also discuss the issues I see with it and proposed solutions. This post will be longer than the suggested format but I assure you it is worth the read:

    A little history lesson on solo que:
    Solo que when it was first introduced, was being tested as an event that would be made permanent if enough people liked it, which you mentioned. A ton of people did like it at first and it was approved and made permanent. Back when solo que was newer, I saw very few people argue against it but there were still some people opposing it back then. As solo que got older, more and more people started to change sides and now it seems to be much more common for PVPers to be in favor of removing it than to support it.

    Some of the arguments made in favor of solo que:
    -- One of the biggest arguments pitched by supporters of solo que is that the casuals and solo queing players were sick of being matched against 5 man premades and solo que was going to give them a safe place to go where they don't have to worry about that anymore. 
    -- There were also many people who believed that premades were killing PVP and wanted to see them gone. 
    -- You also had a lot of players who simply liked being able to play something new, solo que was a change of pace of sorts. 
    -- There were also people who were simply happy to see any changes made to PVP and wanted to like it.

    Some of the arguments made against solo que:
    -- Opposed players argue that the solo que resulted in the death of premades/competitive PVP because everybody gravitated to solo que, nothing else had the numbers needed to make it pop.
    -- Some also argue that it caused the next generation of PVP players to lack crucial skills needed for good PVP such as teamplay skills and encouraged an every man for himself mentality. 
    -- They also argue that it worsened the quality of PVP by making it so a lot of people would not get to bond as a team of friends and guildmates and would be forced to play separately.
    -- It is also argued that it is incompatible with features like a leaderboard geared towards competitive play because solo que isn't really designed for competitive play.

    I will also add an extra bit about why people que for solo que since that is something a lot of experienced PVPers don't seem to understand and this should help the devs better understand as well:

    A lot of experienced players think solo que players only que for solo que because they aren't good players and don't want a challenge or only like to play for themselves. In general, they assume only the negatives I've noticed.
    There are certainly many cases where they are right but there seems to be a much more widespread psychological factor motivating people to keep queing for solo que:

    Its hassle free to que for solo que and takes up the least amount of time and effort. You don't have to go through the trouble to organize a que group, get a bunch of people online at same time, wait on people when they need a few minutes, and you don't have to balance teams. Everyone is also well in habit of assuming they can't get the people for premades even when they want them, they usually say veteran population too small, not enough people online who'd agree to it ect. At this point most of us groan at idea of even trying to get people for it because we already assumed we can't. 

    Speaking for myself, I can think of many times in the past where I actually turned down chances to do premades because I associated it with a lot of hassle and waiting. I often enjoyed the premades the times I did agree to it and some of my best experiences are from premades, I just wish I could just cut to the actual premading part. The other side of it was during certain eras, people were much tankyer than they are today and this made it so a lot of the premades from these eras were actually pretty boring to me. I'd still go through with the boring matches from time to time because when you did finally get a good match, there truly is nothing like it. Thankfully, this is much less of a problem today, premades have gotten more exciting for me now that people actually take damage, the downside is there is more RNG involved with fighting than there used to be.

    The Issues With Solo Que: 

    Solo que is currently the only active PVP type right now and puts 2 different groups of players with incompatible interests in the same que as eachother. What was originally intended to be an escape for causal players, people who prefer to que alone, and people who don't have enough friends online for premading ended up turning into the one and only type of PVP everybody plays. Neither party is happy but aside from the rare private premade vs premade matches, solo que is all we've got now. This needs to change.

    Proposed Solutions:

    I think @ramesh84 's suggestion to revamp solo que as a casuals oriented que with no leaderboard was the best suggestion for solo que I've heard in a while. A similar option is to create a separate leaderboard for solo que and the regular domination que would get an improved team oriented leaderboard. I also agree with solo que having good rewards and that most of those rewards should be gated behind wins to encourage people to actually play PVP to get those rewards. The solo que either shouldn't have an item level requirement or should be limited to only lower item level players.

    The regular/premade allowing domination que needs some upgrades and should have good rewards as well and its own leaderboard that is more team oriented. The rewards should be mostly gated behinds wins here too, for same reasons I mentioned above. I also agree with ramesh that the regular premade allowing domination que needs to have an item level restriction.

    Implementation Issues I Foresee:

    If the solo que was restricted to only lower item level players instead of the first suggestion of simply having no item level requirement, there would need to be a safeguard in place to prevent people from changing to maxed out gear once inside the match. The no item level requirement would be the easier option to go with since its already in place and doesn't take extra safeguards.

    A very late edit:

    Note, my later posts put a stronger emphasis on indirect methods of awarding PVP rewards like the repeatable milestone tasks with repeatable rewards suggestion and updating the trade of blades vendors with better rewards. I also clarified that the best system would likely be to have both ques have the indirect rewards systems but only regular/premade que grants rewards directly from winning matches.
    Post edited by trgluestickz on
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • vitherborthvitherborth Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    ankhorn said:

    Neverwinter Feedback
    From @ankhorn. Played NW Since August 2019. Played D&D Since 1987.

    ***********************************************************

    Overview:
    Create a PVP arena in Protectors Enclave where new players can witness epic battles and duels between end-gamers and newer players alike. Make pvp sexy and cinematic. Create famous personalities, players and teams.

    Goal:
    Make PVP a spectator sport and revitalize its relevance.

    Function:
    I walk into PE on my new lvl 6 toon and I am invited into a Colosseum (via trade of blades?) where I can challenge players, watch fights, investigate pvp and be awed by top-level players skills and gear.

    I imagine something with an arena feel with seats and the ability to watch the fight from a couple of angles. Maybe some audience camera control or such. Like watching the bore worm fight from the time-out room in lomm, but with better angles.

    Presently, for any kind of pvp spectacle, you have to be in Icewind Dale. If new players could witness it early on, they might be more inspired.

    I would make this a combo of pvp and pve challenges (imagine watching your friend doing the Avernus Arena challenge). There could be teams. Lions. We could set Nashers (or halflings) on fire and use them as living torches… Ok maybe not that part.

    This would all integrate seamlessly, I imagine, with trade of blades and the current/future pvp model with its rewards, boons and currencies.

    Maybe add a betting currency for audiences?

    Guild teams would be cool too.

    Risks and Concerns:
    *Time for development. That’s really it. This is a whole new area of development and work, understood. However, you guys spat out the Averus arena in no time at all. =p
    *Legal issues regarding gambling on pvp (thus special system/currencies etc)?
    *Your servers might crash when u steal all the League of Legends players. =)


    APOLOGIES: I have no clue where to post this and needed to get it off my chest.

    EDIT/ADDITION:
    Basically, I hardly ever do PVP. The queues are too slow and the zones are too low population. I want to smash my friends in front of the noobs. You will not get people interested in something they can't see. You also need to Feature a Player each week and give them some limelight. [yes I know, the Rewards CDP is closed now -- sorry]

    I like this because it can be useful to new pvp player that can learn some tactics and power are more performing in pvp, in the same way a pve player watch a youtuber run a dungeon to learn the mechanics
  • ankhornankhorn Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    @Vitherborth -- Yes but with camera control/angle choices.
    Making this cinematic and not dull is important.

    Also -- maybe the Arena would need to be separate from the PE instance so people form various instances could watch/participate.

    ALSO
    Why not feature the best players somewhere? (not just a leaderboard but on a sign/poster/vanity wanted poster) on walls and doors around PE etc.

    ~Neverwinter Foooools!!!!
  • thefabricantthefabricant Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5,247 Arc User
    I know this is offtopic but @trgluestickz can you stop posting using those colours please it makes it really difficult to read your posts and its hurting my eyes :(
  • trgluestickztrgluestickz Member Posts: 1,119 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    I know this is offtopic but @trgluestickz can you stop posting using those colours please it makes it really difficult to read your posts and its hurting my eyes :(

    I can change it to have less color in it, will take moment. still need it to be easy to find.

    edit: done.
    --
    PVP Rogue,
    --[----- "Your friendly neighborhood spawn of Satan." -----]--
    ----------------------------------------------------------------
    Main Character: Hurricane Marigolds (Rogue WK & Assassin)
    Ingame Handle: trgluestickz
    Discord Name: Hurricane🌀Marigolds#2563
    Guilds: She Looked LVL 18 & Essence of Aggression
    Alliances: Imperium & Order of the Silent Shroud
    Platform: PC
  • soulbearer1soulbearer1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 54 Arc User
    Short and Sweet:

    Is PVP profitable to the companies developing and hosting will be first thing ever asked before getting this far in the process. So, to me important decisions are already past player opinions.

    So, here's my two cents ...

    Balance.
    Everyone on opposing teams must face the fear of dying. As soon as one player becomes the over powered one-shotter then the whole match is a waste of time.

    Take away the ability to achieve item level superiority.

    Look at the number 1 PVP game, DOTA. Take some serious notes and realize it's you blueprint.

    Make each player feel equal and have a significant part in every PVP match.

    Or, fail. It's up to you.
    Forgotten Realms Forever!
    Thank you, Ed. :D
  • ninefingers222ninefingers222 Member Posts: 141 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    The idea of solo q had been floated around for years before it was actually implemented, the main argument being it would improve the experience of casuals and beginner players, that it would help the PvP community grow and so on, people clamoured to make it permanent because it was something new to play, ofcourse it was going to be well received by some, pretty much any new PvP content would have been .

    A lot of us saw the issues this would cause, and many left the game over the following months because of it, low and behold the state of PvP today, no premades, no PvP guilds, a tiny window where PvP actually happens, the casuals and beginners still get stomped or worse kicked from games, in fact I believe they never had it worse .

    We all started off beginners, we were all bad at some point, people that wanted to learn joined guilds with a PvP focus, met players that took them under their wing, made friends, and got better at the game, now you cannot even q with friends as a duo or trio, so yeah 9 times out of 10 they get farmed or kicked and after a while they give up, the PvP community has never been this small, I see talk of tiered PvP which is awesome, but the community is so small now that tiered PvP will probably not pop over all tiers, the only way that idea works is if you give the whole player base incentive to actually PvP, and keep the amount of separate q's to a minimum, preferably just one .

    The old domi q wasn't all premades and pug stomping, proper premades were just trying to snipe other premades they knew were q'ing, rarely have I seen a premade not let pugs cap like I have read here, I ran a lot of pre's in my time, and been on the receiving end of a lot of them, what most people here are calling pre's aren't even what we would call a pre, it was just groups of friends that were more often than not less than 5, pve players, casuals, newbies, pvp players and yeah sometimes a mix of all of those .

    There is still fun to be had in solo q, but it is few and far between, match making is nonexistant, it even feels like the game goes out of it's way to stack healers in one team, leaving the other team with only DPS classes, the kicking abuse is rampant, everyone is running broken artifacts, and more often than not you play against your friends rather than with them, which all makes for a pretty lousy experience .
    Essence of Aggression, OG PvP GWF
  • froger#9967 froger Member Posts: 510 Arc User

    rarely have I seen a premade not let pugs cap like I have read here

    When I did PVP, generally queueing alone, it was really a mixed bag of being allowed to cap or not. Sometimes players would let you get 2 caps then hold you at the entry gate. There were times where they would trade caps. There were times where they would tell you to cap, then kill you. I remember tons of matches where I couldn't leave the campfire platform. This was probably 2 - 3 years ago when I actually gave PVP the ol' college try (guild needed glory).

    Since M16 the maybe 15 times I've done domination getting caps hasn't been a problem. This is because I understand the need to cap and prioritize it and other players seem to keep each other occupied.
    Froger - Barbie Girl in a Barbie World - Almost Geared to Be Main Again - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Jade - Cleric - Main - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Magnus - Fighter - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Loverboy - Ranger - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Nomnomnommm - Wizard - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    I Am The Wall - Paladin - Alt - Droppin Crits on Fools - Xbone
    Xeros - Rogue - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    RIP bad name - Warlock - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone
    Bardholomew - Alt - 9 3/4 Unbuffed - Xbone

    Jade - DC - Shadows of Gauntlgrym - PC
  • luks707luks707 Member Posts: 230 Arc User
    There is a lot that can be done to improve PVP but these are the three points I have heard come up over and again that would make a HUGE impact. PVP has the potential for endless endgame entertainment, so let's try and make it attractive to get there.

    Feedback Overview
    Introduce a item level capped q and put high item level requirements on the regular pvp q

    Feedback Goal
    Allow new players to gain experience PVPing in a fair environment while experienced players are more evenly matched.

    Feedback Functionality
    The item level capping function used in PVE should be activated for solo q. This could be both a challenging place for experienced players as well as an interesting place for new players to learn without being killed. This should have a campaign tied to it, probably the current campaign due to its simple structure but with more guidance for the new players. Kicking should be disabled in this q.
    The other non solo qs should then be gated through a very high item level. This could then have a second tier campaign tied to fighting in specific content.

    Risks & Concerns
    Splitting the q may mean it is harder to get a match. However as most "pug" matches end up as negative experiences for new players (rolf stomped or kicked) the result is people do not come back and it gets harder and harder to q. I know very few people who pvp who haven't been doing it for a long time. In my view this is because the new player experience is particularly bad.


    Feedback Overview
    Create a set of 3 person maps. Create 1v1 pvp challenges.

    Feedback Goal
    Shorter waiting times, easy ways for matches to happen.

    Feedback Functionality
    I would love for players to be able to design maps and put them here. But simply put - it really is not that hard to make these maps as being for fewer people they can be smaller. Make one to start off for each mode and then add more over time.

    Risks & Concerns
    This could drain players from the bigger maps. This could be mitigated with appropriate map related campaign rewards. Ultimately this is a rebuilding from the ground up job. So smaller match ups will make it more attractive to rebuild.


    Feedback Overview
    Regular specific PVP events

    Feedback Goal
    Focus the player base on specific parts of pvp through rewards. This should be through 2 ways.
    1. a timer like we have the moment (e.g. domination hour = double rewards!) but with meaningful rewards attached them. The simplest way would be to change up the glory and seals store. I would do this by raising the cost of rewards and the cap on glory at the same time so experienced players still have a bit to work for. I would probably discontinue gear in this shop as it never keeps up with PVE gear anyway. Ideally there would be ways of adding to your gear that enhances it only in pvp.
    2. fortnight long events that rank people in a specific q such as my proposed 3v3, 5v5, 10v10 or even 20v20 (when there are lots of people, or maybe take that map down to 15v15 and have fewer server issues). Essentially the last pvp event which was domination solo q is an example of this but it should then be applied to focus players to varied content.

    Feedback Functionality
    The functionality should be there for this as it is just varying what is already there.

    Risks & Concerns
    I really cannot see the risks with this one.

  • rafaeldarafaelda Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 662 Arc User
    Feedback Overview
    Mor PVE like PVP mode

    Feedback Goal
    Bring PVE players to PVP

    Feedback Functionality
    A PVP mode where you fight in 2 teams of 5 players (since is the basic Dungeon format) and give some control points to spawn mobs, teams should be able to chose what kind of mobs they want to spawn, but the enemy main target Should only be damaged by the mobs (something like the old SH PVP or Siege catapults but being 100% mob operated, the fight between players woul be to control the spawn points, kill the mobs and kill the opposite team players to disrupt theys control points.
    Put Some Sopts should increase the speed of the mobs spawn, other the power (level) this mobs would have.
    Is could be a replacement for Strongholds PVP that is Dead at the moment
    The smaller player pool needed to start the fight should make it faster to start.
    PVE power and Gears shouldnt be a problem there, would work like Ice Wind Dale open map in term of stats and combat style

    Risks & Concerns
    Time to develop such a new system, also a tutorial fight might be needed, and maybe a launch event, to make players more familiar with the new gameplay.

    Also as the whole PVP we need to tier the players in some way so the new players dont feel that overwhelmed and flee and the veterans dont get a game full of new players that would be a one sided not fun fight...

    PS. Again sorry for any mistake , my english is self taught.
  • jas#1732 jas Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    You need to remove the ability of some classes to become immortal. No one wants to play a game that there is no chance to win. Balance out the Q system. Why would the system place 2 healers on the same team? Take away all artifact and gear abilities and just leave the stats. It's should just be as simple as stats and skill. Better yet, PvP requires specific PvP gear. MORE MAPS! the chance to vote on said maps each match.
  • luks707luks707 Member Posts: 230 Arc User


    The old domi q wasn't all premades and pug stomping, proper premades were just trying to snipe other premades they knew were q'ing, rarely have I seen a premade not let pugs cap like I have read here, I ran a lot of pre's in my time, and been on the receiving end of a lot of them, what most people here are calling pre's aren't even what we would call a pre, it was just groups of friends that were more often than not less than 5, pve players, casuals, newbies, pvp players and yeah sometimes a mix of all of those .

    The thing is: the solo q was meant to separate out the premades so they would face each other, not kill them off. Sadly that came at the same time as it gets harder to get bis gear endgame and hence it has become harder to get to the level where you can compete in premades. The gap is much bigger than it was when pvp was still a big deal in this game. So you need a stepping stone to get to the point where you are ready to run premade matches and lots of incentives to play. The old days will not just come back by themselves.

  • jobelo71#5623 jobelo71 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    Feedback Overview (short description of the proposed feedback)
    PVP not fun for me
    To much imbalance where balance shouldn't exist anyway.

    Feedback Goal (what this feedback would target and accomplish)
    Make something more fun where balance isn't the goal

    Feedback Functionality (how would your feedback work in relation to the current design of Neverwinter)
    As quick solution :
    I believe that a standard mode where all players have the same build is essential. The current mode must also remain in order to promote the creativity of the builds. However, i believe this form of PVP will never be successful in an MMO.

    As new idea:
    For me the solution lies in a game like DARKSOULS.
    A player invade a stronghold.

    The rules would be similar to DARKSOULS.
    The mob are with the invader and the entire stronghold is against the player.
    in addition, the fortress normally heals all players in the stronghold, but not the invader. so good luck hitting someone in the fortress.

    I also see factions, the purpose of which is to

    Kill players
    Steal resources
    Help against an invader

    For me this kind of pvp is extremely interesting.

    I picture a patient invader who hi-jack a dragon flight, Kills a player during a quest. I imagine a thief guild whose sole purpose is to steal other guilds.

    I imagine a player calling on the guild to gank an invader.

    Risks & Concerns (what problems can you foresee with implementing your feedback that you would like input on from members of this subforum)
    Invasions must be limited and controlled. especially against small level guilds. Of course the idea opens the door to abuse, but a good implementation, (as in DARKSOULS) would be a game changer in my opinion.

    As example here few rules

    You can not pick a stronghold to invade.
    At least 3 Guild members with same level or above the invader must be online in order to enable the stronghold invasion.
    Stealing resources are limited per invasion and per day.
    Stealing resources require few second and can be interrupted and are given randomly.
    Stronghold could disable invasion, but enabling it give a perk to the guild.

    etc....


  • thefiresidecatthefiresidecat Member Posts: 4,486 Arc User
    edited March 2020

    I want to raise a point for all those requesting "equalized gear" and "same stats for all'



    In my mind that removes most of the fun from really dialing in your character via all avenues available to obtain different stat arrays and perform differently.



    I mean; it's true, mod 16 took away a lot of customization - and maybe that's the direction you all want - an overwatch style cookie cutter game - but that's not why I play neverwinter - so that would probably mark the end of this game for me if all customization was removed. Having skill at building your character *should* be a large part of being successful.



    Don't ruin the game just to make it completely fair for new people - what's next? gear neutral TOMM; it's exclusionary of new players - everyone Q'd should have the same gear.



    I suggest the offering of PvP specific equipment; obtainable by Glory, Season rewards, or PvP event currencies that allow higher functionality items for PvP use only - so insignias that function at legendary level in PvP, but are rare quality outside. Or Mounts that operate as Legendary in PvP, but are Rare elsewhere. The code exists currently on gear specific to PvP - the mount piece may be impossible - but definitely enchants and insignias could be created with minimal effort along those lines.


    pvp is only fun for most people if things are balanced. when you go into destiny mp or halo or cod it's all basically equal. you can choose different guns or earn different guns but they are guns everyone can earn. when you have various classes in the lines of never winter it is only fun for the ones that are currently op. skill is based on everyone being at the same place. the only people left in pvp as it stands are the ones who are there to noob stomp and that's why no one else will play. there is a reason the population is gone. lol. it is not the same as making this happen in pve. pve doesn't matter as much if things are unequal. pvp it is the point. there should be no crossing between pvp and pve. they are literally different animals. and should have no influence on each other. AT ALL.
  • tankready#0772 tankready Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    So My Thoughts On The PvP CDP Please Bear With Me On This a Lot Probably already been said but here we go

    >> PVP Tier Sets <<

    1. Make Tier Based Gear Sets, Collectible through campaign or Random ques. Each Should Have Its Own Marks To Collect.

    • Tier 1 - Marks Of Common - Collectible With Campaign currency's, PvP Weekly's in Ice wind dale & Random Lairs & Ques.
    • Tier 2 - Marks Of Rare - Collectible With Campaign currency's, PvP Weekly's in Ice wind dale & Random Lairs & Ques.
    • Tier 3 - Marks Of Epic - Collectible With Campaign currency's, PvP Weekly's in Ice wind dale & Random Lairs & Ques.
    • Tier 4 - Marks Of Legendary - Collectible With Campaign currency's, PvP Weekly's in Ice wind dale & Random Lairs & Ques.

    Please do not go pass legendary gear unless you host pvp events to get mythic items used only for advanced pvp ques

    Notes
    - PVE gear should NOT be used ever in pvp.
    - All gear sets should have no ability's attached to the gear should only have stat based & let the powers & skills determine the out come of the battle.
    - Enchantments can be used in pvp but no change in item level.
    - insignia's can be used in pvp but no change in item level.
    - Mount power can be used in pvp but no change in item level.
    - Artifacts can be used in pvp but no chang in item level.
    - item level should only be based on the tier of gear you are using at the moment.

    •By doing this it makes a clean leveling system with in the pvp match's were leveling pvp players don't get (RIP) by veteran players. There could be 2 different ques one called (LAIRS) other one called (RANDOMS)

    (LAIRS)
    - Are the leveling ques from the campaign and questing for better gear sets. Weather it be collecting from campaign Currency's or getting the marks from random Lairs ques.

    (RANDOMS)
    - is when you have completed the campaign and maxed out your gear at Tier 4 Legendary then you can join the Veterans in 1v1 2v2 etc.


    Ps. i know there are pvp gear in the game already both solo and guild gear but i would like to see those revamped to stat only gear moving forward in pvp so that players know what they are advancing to in in the quest lines for both guild and solo pvp gear sets.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    >> Guild Tier Sets <<

    • Tier 1 - Marks Of Common - Collectible With Guild currency's, PvP Weekly's in Ice wind dale & Random Guild Ques.
    • Tier 2 - Marks Of Rare - Collectible With Guild currency's, PvP Weekly's in Ice wind dale & Random Guild Ques.
    • Tier 3 - Marks Of Epic - Collectible With Guild currency's, PvP Weekly's in Ice wind dale & Random Guild Ques.
    • Tier 4 - Marks Of Legendary - Collectible With Guild currency's, PvP Weekly's in Ice wind dale & Random Guild Ques.

    Now Not everyone is in a guild and this should be a total separate thing from the actual pvp campaign quest line. When leveling or que-ing for matches they would be there own guild pvp ques

    • Were guilds can create there own colors for guild pvp battles like there own cloaks etc. i don't care much for this part so i will let someone else come up with how this part should be done . (NOTE) - guild gear should never be used in solo pvp questing or LAIRS ques


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    i have a lot in my head right now and would like to add more but im very tired of typing lol so there is more to be said if you like my ideas please let me know what you would add or change these are just my thoughts ty -TankReady_
  • tankready#0772 tankready Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    were did my 2hr long cdp thing go i was editting then it disapeared i can't navagte this stuff ? triggered someone help find it moderator of fourms please help ty

    it listerly vanished after i was doing some editting to save it 2hrs long lol omg

    im not retwitting the thing again so if moderator can go back and find it in logs or dev team that would help but im not rewitting it all again lol i like how this fourms stuff is easy to navagate
    Post edited by tankready#0772 on
  • ninefingers222ninefingers222 Member Posts: 141 Arc User

    were did my 2hr long cdp thing go i was editting then it disapeared i can't navagte this stuff ? triggered someone help find it moderator of fourms please help ty

    it listerly vanished after i was doing some editting to save it 2hrs long lol omg

    im not retwitting the thing again so if moderator can go back and find it in logs or dev team that would help but im not rewitting it all again lol i like how this fourms stuff is easy to navagate

    That has been an issue on this forum for a very long time, you are editing and pouf, it is gone, write stuff in a notepad or word doc, then copy paste it on the forum, that is the best work around I have found, and it will save your HAMSTER from it happening again .
    Essence of Aggression, OG PvP GWF
  • gweddrygweddry Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 276 Arc User

    PvP Rewards and Leaderboard

    Feedback Overview

    This feedback describes the state of rewards and leaderboard in PvP.

    Feedback Goal

    Improve rewards as an incentive for players to play PvP and make small, QOL adjustments to leaderboard. Establish PvP as an alternative path through the game’s progression.

    Feedback Functionality

    Rewards

    There are two types of rewards in PvP: seasonal and per match. The former are somewhat decent. The latter are pathetic. Per match rewards need to be upgraded and awarded only for wins. This is essential to prevent what we’ve seen back in the day with botting and clueless PvE players sitting in campfire just to get the daily AD, flaming their teammates who don’t give up fast enough. To further ward off people that are just there for the rewards, it could be made so that rewards get better with consecutive (or just total) wins.

    There are many options in terms of what to include in possible rewards. RP, rough AD, guild vouchers, campaign currencies and more. An alternative effortless approach to this would be to reward the tokens used in the seasonal store, e.g. a chance to get 1 token per win.

    Design wise, an important feature of PvP rewards should ideally be that there is very little PvE grind required to upgrade and maintain a PvP build. Right now, the entire PvP build is obtained through PvE, I hope that I don’t need to explain why that is horribly wrong. A lot of the pieces come from excessive luck-based PvE grinding like Avernus named mobs hunting/Juma bags and TIC; others from very gear demanding content like TOMM.

    In short, making a PvP toon right now is pointless – in order to be BiS in PvP, one must first have a near-BiS PvE spec (or other characters to farm the required content). This is historically one of the most common reasons (from my experience the most common) why PvP players quit the game.

    Because this game is mainly PvE focused, PvP gear should be a mix of items gained from both PvE and PvP (and it’s plenty enough if the PvE part means only boons).

    Leaderboard

    Even since its introduction, leaderboard has been laughed at by top end PvP players. Rating players accurately is extremely difficult in a system which allows different premade sizes (e.g. solo vs 3man) and has gear being a major factor in a player’s performance. This was further made worse by very weird elo calculations (losing elo for winning matches).

    Today, the situation is completely different. Leaderboard has become the main motivation for high end solo queue players to continue playing. There are titles awarded for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place which is certainly nice. However, leaderboard “fame” along with rewards based on leaderboard rank has further worsened some problems PvP is suffering from – in this case it’s kicking any lower geared players with hopes of getting an easy win.

    Leaderboard is something that is essential to a competitive setting, but just like matchmaking, it won’t work well without a large playerbase. If at some point PvP has such a playerbase again, it would be nice to have a second leaderboard for (5man) premades.

    Unfortunately, leaderboard or ranking in general suffers from a large flaw. If you observe the behavior of most high ranked players, what you’ll see is that they play a lot of matches at the start of the season (the sooner the better, ideally first 2 days) and if they win a lot, they never play again. The problem is that they keep their high rank and are extremely difficult to pass. I’m very much against the “play more games to be higher rank” model – it makes no sense as ranking should be based on skill. However, what’s currently happening is straight up abusing the ranking system. This is easily solved by elo decay, which is what most (all?) competitive games do.

    Elo decay fixes this problem by forcing players to remain active otherwise they lose elo (drop in ranks). An amount of time is chosen (since a season lasts 28 days, I’d go with perhaps 4 days) and if a player doesn’t play a certain amount of games for this time period, they start losing elo. Elo decay implementations tend to be much more aggressive towards the top of the ladder, e.g. top 5% of players have to play at least 10 matches every 3 days, whereas players around the top 50% mark only need to play 5 matches every 4 days. In some cases, elo decay doesn’t affect those below a certain elo threshold at all.

    Additionally, what happens especially around the top spots (but based on how many players are ranked, it can happen anywhere) is that you win 5 matches in a row, but don’t move from your spot. Because of this, I’d like elo or whatever matchmaking rating is used to be visible. This way, a player can better track their progress and won’t feel stuck.

    Risks & Concerns

    If the rewards are too good, even if they are limited to wins, players who have no interest in PvP might play it just to try and get the rewards. This – especially without other changes in the accessibility area, which I mention in another post in this CDP – might lead to match quality degradation.

    In the leaderboard section, there are risks related to elo decay. It must allow players some time off but it cannot be too lax either.

    Unlike rewards which should be a high priority, leaderboard is something that should only be addressed once PvP is in a healthier state, although I could see a properly implemented elo decay being very beneficial.
This discussion has been closed.