Damage for TRs went down from where they were in M14. This is called out many times in this thread as a reason that different powers should get buffed up. However, generally it isn't also acknowledged that TRs had sky high damage in M14 and that isn't where any class should be at.
100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage.
Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations.
Balance doesn't just mean reducing/increasing the stats on a power. Sometimes synergies need to be changed or removed all together, and other times functionality needs to be significantly changed to open up other options in a class. We need to be able to make those kinds of changes, when necessary, or we can't get the game into a good place with classes/content.
This week I did add a base power to the TR class that is giving all At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies a 5% damage multiplier boost. Overall a lot of the feedback in the thread is that the 3 feat trees are actually close to one another now, but that damage may be on the low side. Because of this we went with a universal damage increase for M15 instead of boosting something that may have pulled the feat trees further apart again.
Italian Version: Sono incredulo e molto dubbioso su questo nerf... Sono davvero curioso di vedere il nuovo danno di TR nel mod 15, voi sviluppatori dite che lo fate per migliorare il nosro modo di giocare...ne siete veramente sicuri ? vedremo.. (Quando avete cambiato la raffinazione dei diamanti astrali, avete detto che lo avete fatto perchè era stato richiesto dai giocatori, beh, leggendo i vari commenti, tutti dicevano di non cambiare la raffinazione a 100k per giorno, ma questa è un altra storia) Tornando al Ladro...purtroppo sono su ps4 e, non ho la possibilità di vedere e testare la differenza del danno, quindi posso solo sperare che i ladri su pc trovino una soluzione a questi drastici cambiamenti... Per tanti, e dico tanti mesi, noi ladri non siamo stati invitati nei dungeons content, perchè avevamo un basso danno...con le ultime mod 13/14, abbiamo iniziato a crescere e ad essere competitivi con le altre classi dps...era bello stare alla pari delle altre classi dps...detto questo...non mi dispererò e non piangerò per questo drastico nerf, ovviamente non sono d'accordo su questo mega nerf, ad ogni modo, vedremo se avrete fatto passi avanti, o avrete fatto passi indietro.
English version: I am incredulous and very doubtful about this nerf ... I'm really curious to see the new damage of TR in mod 15, you developers say you do it to improve our way of playing ... are you really sure? we'll see.. (When you changed the refining of the astral diamonds, you said you did it because it was requested by the players, well, reading the various comments, everyone said not to change the refinement to 100k per day, but that's another story) Returning to the Thief ... unfortunately I'm on ps4 and, I can not see and test the difference in damage, so I can only hope that the thieves on the pc find a solution to these drastic changes ... For many, and I say many months, we thieves were not invited in the dungeons content, because we had a low damage ... with the latest mod 13/14, we started to grow and be competitive with other dps classes ... it was nice to stay on par with other dps classes ... said this ... I will not despair and I will not cry for this drastic nerf, obviously I do not agree on this mega nerf, however, we'll see if you have made progress, or you will have taken steps back.
Damage for TRs went down from where they were in M14. This is called out many times in this thread as a reason that different powers should get buffed up. However, generally it isn't also acknowledged that TRs had sky high damage in M14 and that isn't where any class should be at.
100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage.
Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations.
Balance doesn't just mean reducing/increasing the stats on a power. Sometimes synergies need to be changed or removed all together, and other times functionality needs to be significantly changed to open up other options in a class. We need to be able to make those kinds of changes, when necessary, or we can't get the game into a good place with classes/content.
This week I did add a base power to the TR class that is giving all At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies a 5% damage multiplier boost. Overall a lot of the feedback in the thread is that the 3 feat trees are actually close to one another now, but that damage may be on the low side. Because of this we went with a universal damage increase for M15 instead of boosting something that may have pulled the feat trees further apart again.
2 days ago I did CR, 1 op, 2 dc ac / do, 1 tr, 1 gwf, im 18k +, gwf 16.5k and supports about 17k + I have all the perfect equipment to be on top, rings +5 equip 550 500 540 mythical artifacts, legendary companions, offensive insignia, right bonus mounts, legendary disc and snail, and perfect stats 100% crit, sever crit, and pen arm . and about 230 of power in combat on the mannequins ... in short, everything you want to have, I have it (i mean...2 years farm from release on ps4) Now, I do not know if the supports have given the wheel and all buffs to the gwf, I have not seen .. for sure ... I was not using the power looping because I was using (Wwob and LA) or (CB and LA) ... and I let it take the sword at the gwf. OK, maybe I do not use the perfect rotation, ok, I sometimes died to the sisters and maybe I lost some damage ok... and it's also true that IL does not count ....Now, you can say that I'm scarce, you can say what you want ... anyway .. at the end of the dungeon we had the exact same damage .. but the point is not this ... the point is ... if the gwf had my same IL would have easily overcome my damage ... but you nerf tr ... and in light of this, the difference in mod 15 will be huge ... and we all know, that for dungeons, people take those who do more damage.
I don't think the developers understand the bitter irony in these changes. In attempting to create "balance" in the TR class (and make more builds viable) now more than ever you just create a cookie cutter, paint by numbers meta build. If we are limited to a DPS ceiling that can't be broken, then irrespective of paragon path, feats, companions, mounts, boons and understanding of the class, all rogues will be identical in terms of performance at end game.
I 100% agree that executioner was getting out of hand, but this was solely to do with bugged interactions with class buffs. But the end result is that players will build for what works, whichever build outs out the most damage will become the new paint by numbers, the new meta build.
I find it ironic that you nerf smokebomb because it was only ever intended as a control ability...all while stripping it of control effects. Less damage, no longer slows and will have a smaller area of effect. Mod15 TR promises to be the most pathetic yet. And don't tell me these changes aren't purely about PvP, blatantly untrue.
2 days ago I did CR, 1 op, 2 dc ac / do, 1 tr, 1 gwf, im 18k +, gwf 16.5k and supports about 17k + I have all the perfect equipment to be on top, rings +5 equip 550 500 540 mythical artifacts, legendary companions, offensive insignia, right bonus mounts, legendary disc and snail, and perfect stats 100% crit, sever crit, and pen arm . and about 230 of power in combat on the mannequins ... in short, everything you want to have, I have it (i mean...2 years farm from release on ps4) Now, I do not know if the supports have given the wheel and all buffs to the gwf, I have not seen .. for sure ... I was not using the power looping because I was using (Wwob and LA) or (CB and LA) ... and I let it take the sword at the gwf. OK, maybe I do not use the perfect rotation, ok, I sometimes died to the sisters and maybe I lost some damage ok... and it's also true that IL does not count ....Now, you can say that I'm scarce, you can say what you want ... anyway .. at the end of the dungeon we had the exact same damage .. but the point is not this ... the point is ... if the gwf had my same IL would have easily overcome my damage ... but you nerf tr ... and in light of this, the difference in mod 15 will be huge ... and we all know, that for dungeons, people take those who do more damage.
That's not even a good test. One of ya had exalt. Skill levels could be completely different as well. He could be the best GWF (eg, the best GWF was 16.7k), you could be the worst TR with the best gear possible.
Also, he took the sword? You do realize how much damage the sword does? A perfectly timed dawn strike could one-shot the last boss. Literally.
I'm not trying to throw shade here, but your comparison really means nothing. It's like comparing DPS between a TR and GWF, and GWF had the Bloody Death buff on orcus.
yes I know that the variations can be a lot .. but what I want to say .. is that even not using the power, looping that gwf was damn strong ... so if the gwf is already strong in the mod 14, with a lower IL , and can do the same damage of 18k dps, then in the mod 15 you will not have chance to be invaded in groups .. since precisely people take those who do more damage
I want to say that as long as there is a difference in damage between dps, and one class does more damage than another, there will always be discrimination in choosing a dps..and you will always have to fight or suffer, to have a place in the group ... have you read the comments on the DODC? Some of them would like to do full dps to be invited in groups and be an alternative to the classic dps, since now they feel totally out of the group, because terrifying insignia does not buff the allies, and I understand them, I am also dc .. If DODC were full dps, where will we end up? already we have to compete with the gwf hr gf sw cw to have a place in the group as dps ... we add the DODC is over, while if the dps all had the same damage, the discrimination would not be there ... and there would be only a class preference in choosing a dps which would always be a discrimination ... but at least you would have no problem saying ... what does it matter to choose one or the other ... they all do the same damage
@noworries#8859 The last change to Impossible to Catch made it unable to activate during other attacks, it either interrupts the previous attack or it will activate after the attack is done, you can test it with Duelist's Flurry. Please revert that change, we will rather accept it going on cooldown without effect after dodge than being unable to activate during other attacks.
Thank you for finally communicating with us Noworries. I'll start with my positive comments first. The universal damage boost will help. Thank you for this. We really do like that the three feat trees will be closer together. Truly we don't like being forced into a single build, but since we have only damage to provide we are forced into builds where the damage is competitive with other classes. Hopefully this will be eased some. Variety makes things more fun.
Now, on to your aspersion that the TR is too overpowered right now. I will take what you said about 100mil hits to mean overpowered since that specific example is a feat that almost every class can accomplish in the right conditions. In very select situations, with exactly the right team composition, then yes, a TR can outshine anyone else. It might have "sky high damage" in these situations, but these situations are not every TR in every dungeon. And that is why you don't see us acknowledging your claim that our damage is ridiculously high. And as others have pointed out the situations in which we are able to reach "sky high damage" is in LARGE part due to bugs or not wai. AoC and WoB being the poignant ones. You take a group sans paladin and not looping, and suddenly the same TR who doubled everyone else last run is now even with the gwf and hr. Maybe a little above or a little below. That is what we the community see as balance. What do YOU consider balance since this is clearly not it? What you're calling "sky high damage" is what we're calling par with other classes. This is where there is a communication gap that needs to be filled.
I get what you're saying about needing to change things. Most of us do. There are many, many comments on here that are moderate. But, what we're not understanding is the EXTENT and REASONS of the changes ... To a single class. When only a few of the changes would meet your stated goal. When almost every other class can do the SAME thing we're being told is unacceptable. I'm not going to call for nerfs to other classes. I want to know why we're being targeted and punished for it.
Smoke bomb. You're lowering the damage on sb because it's intended to be a control power, not a damage power. But you're TAKING AWAY half the control. Not to mention the absurd recharge. And the fact that at end game most stuff has cc resist or immunity. So, if it doesn't control, doesn't deal damage, what is it SUPPOSED to do? I will refrain from making comparisons with similar powers from other classes because I do not wish to be misconstrued as asking for nerfs to other classes. But have YOU looked at how inline it is with similar powers from other classes WITHOUT the insane AoC procs? If you don't want it to be a damage power then it actually needs to do something else useful. The cc it provides needs to be improved or something.
And you still haven't addressed reasons for movement reductions.
In addition i would like a clear description from game developers about what role TR's are meant to fill after these changes. We can't competently fill the DPS role, we have no healing, we have no meaningfull buffs or utility....so what are we meant to be now? We wouldn't even qualify as just an agile reviver in tough fights thanks to movement speed nerfs. If these changes go live then you need to tell us what the TR identity is from here on. Are we a low budget DPS? A low budget support just offering mob stuns for GWF?
Outside of my guild i really can't see the reasoning for any queue group to waste a slot in T9G bringing a rogue along.
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demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
For the past 5plus years I have played tr and never felt pressured to play the cookie cutter builds. I was free to build and aim for mobility life steal power. Now as i have been testing mod 15 and understand the changes, my mobility has been nerfed, my power has been nerfed, my control of movement speed of my targets has been removed, stealth gains and duration for me have been nerfed, this makes my life steal less productive.
Those of us who refused to play the cookie cutter builds have few other options now.
You served us a tuna salad without the tuna.... How dare you even try to force this down our throats.
Gloaming cut refilling stealth as sabo gave us around 10 seconds of stealth time if we sacrificed power feats for stealth feats. Now even with the extended stealth feats our stealth ends very quickly. (Power feats are all that are needed now)
Mobility won't be high enough to assist us in escaping red zones in pve or escaping get, gf, sw, hr in pve. (So power insignias will be needed instead of mobility insignias)
Stamina gain critical and power out weighs all other things now except for deflection.
It's better to quickly kill in pve and pve now than to use any control or mobility builds.
Scoundrel deflection builds will do well with new feat reworks.
Executioner will fair ok
Sab will be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
So thanks for pushing us all to a new meta build that relies little on control or stealth.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
Damage for TRs went down from where they were in M14. This is called out many times in this thread as a reason that different powers should get buffed up. However, generally it isn't also acknowledged that TRs had sky high damage in M14 and that isn't where any class should be at.
100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage.
Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations.
Balance doesn't just mean reducing/increasing the stats on a power. Sometimes synergies need to be changed or removed all together, and other times functionality needs to be significantly changed to open up other options in a class. We need to be able to make those kinds of changes, when necessary, or we can't get the game into a good place with classes/content.
This week I did add a base power to the TR class that is giving all At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies a 5% damage multiplier boost. Overall a lot of the feedback in the thread is that the 3 feat trees are actually close to one another now, but that damage may be on the low side. Because of this we went with a universal damage increase for M15 instead of boosting something that may have pulled the feat trees further apart again.
Damage for TRs went down from where they were in M14. This is called out many times in this thread as a reason that different powers should get buffed up. However, generally it isn't also acknowledged that TRs had sky high damage in M14 and that isn't where any class should be at.
100 million damage in a single hit vs a boss is not where the gameplay is meant to be. As such, some dynamics were lessened to bring TRs into a more realistic place for outgoing damage.
Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations.
Balance doesn't just mean reducing/increasing the stats on a power. Sometimes synergies need to be changed or removed all together, and other times functionality needs to be significantly changed to open up other options in a class. We need to be able to make those kinds of changes, when necessary, or we can't get the game into a good place with classes/content.
This week I did add a base power to the TR class that is giving all At-Wills, Encounters, and Dailies a 5% damage multiplier boost. Overall a lot of the feedback in the thread is that the 3 feat trees are actually close to one another now, but that damage may be on the low side. Because of this we went with a universal damage increase for M15 instead of boosting something that may have pulled the feat trees further apart again.
To be fair, right now a DODC can onephase orcus. Everyone could do it in M14, really. Just gotta got the skeelz.
Sorry but there isn't a dps DO meta, and DOs having a place as main dps like GFs do.
The point isn't what's meta. It's about saying that onephasing isn't that impressive. I genuinely have no idea what you're on about. The only class right now that can't onephase Orcus is OP.
About the old Shadowborn that raised power rate +100%... does anyone know if it was multitarget or single target?
Post edited by mazeppa79#6238 on
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odinslasherMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 17Arc User
To developers,
In the recent update on the preview server you have buffed the TR damage by 5%.
In all honesty, this is not even close to bringing the TR back to life in end game dungeons. If we look back into the this thread, there are many information our experienced TR players have provided to back this up.
It has been brought up in this thread many times but the rework for TR in module 15 has destroyed the CORE mechanic of STACKING dailies(to buff power output) and ITC to reach what other dps classes can achieve.
The changes in this CORE mechanic cannot be filled with an overall damage buff by5%.
Just to make sure it makes sense, this CORE mechanic is used whether you choose to play Saboteur, Scoundrel or Executioner (the 3 trees given to us).
That ends one message I would like to send to you.
Another message I also like to say is as below:
Although I would like to argue that TR's should have one of the highest SINGLE TARGET DPS, this was only achieved during module 14 with the broken interaction with Aura of Courage and smoke bomb (multi proc) and the overpowered Shadow of Demise.
And now that the Aura of Courage is fixed to one proc per encounter and Shadow of Demise toned down to as it was pre module 14, along with the changes to our CORE mechanic in module 15, it is not a lie to say that we have nothing to bring to the table in end game dungeons. (even after the 5% buff)
I apologies for the long text but please developers. Please work with us to come to a solution to this Class balance. As a fact, no one in this TR community has opposed to your decision to rework this CORE mechanic. We just wish the TR to become bug free and also be able to become a high SINGLE TARGET DPS.
@odinslasher I agree. If they wanted to tone down TR all they needed to do was to reduce SoD from 75% back to 50% and fix what was broken - Smoke bomb multiprocing Aura of Courage and prevent ITC and CB giving twice more power than they should have when used after WoB.
Those things would have been more than enough to bring TR in line. I understand the dislike of power increasing abilities but i dont understand the replacement being two times worse.
@noworries#8859 There is still time to rethink these changes, there is plenty of quality feedback. It's your move now.
2 days ago I did CR, 1 op, 2 dc ac / do, 1 tr, 1 gwf, im 18k +, gwf 16.5k and supports about 17k + I have all the perfect equipment to be on top, rings +5 equip 550 500 540 mythical artifacts, legendary companions, offensive insignia, right bonus mounts, legendary disc and snail, and perfect stats 100% crit, sever crit, and pen arm . and about 230 of power in combat on the mannequins ... in short, everything you want to have, I have it (i mean...2 years farm from release on ps4) Now, I do not know if the supports have given the wheel and all buffs to the gwf, I have not seen .. for sure ... I was not using the power looping because I was using (Wwob and LA) or (CB and LA) ... and I let it take the sword at the gwf. OK, maybe I do not use the perfect rotation, ok, I sometimes died to the sisters and maybe I lost some damage ok... and it's also true that IL does not count ....Now, you can say that I'm scarce, you can say what you want ... anyway .. at the end of the dungeon we had the exact same damage .. but the point is not this ... the point is ... if the gwf had my same IL would have easily overcome my damage ... but you nerf tr ... and in light of this, the difference in mod 15 will be huge ... and we all know, that for dungeons, people take those who do more damage.
if he beat you it dosn't mean much for the class just means you don't play the TR class as well as you should be as for wheel it dosn't atter who get it from buffers it dmg is added to thier score in the board anway so yeah he is just better than you as a player overall and classes got nothing to do with it if ur both end game in fact TR cna dish out more dmg atm if plyaed correctly but that all depends on some variables and players so even if both of you doign dmg u shouldn't be that much afar llike 100 mil difference at best by the end of the run
I'm a simple 14k TR that has never abandoned this character since 2013. I've lived every single change that was introduced to this class and i've seen the difference between being useful and being useless. I've lived all those moments where TR's were never grouped for any dungeon. This is what led me to momentarily leave Neverwinter, which is probably going to happen anyway again if these changes will be real (and i can ensure I'm not the only one). You seriously need to play your own game in order to judge the changes that are going to take place.
Again, right now I'm 14k gs and I'm already struggling to find any group, let alone after the next patch where it will be obvious that the other classes will be having a 10 times better DPS. TR is neither a support nor a tank, so i don't see why you should nerf the only role that it fits: SINGLE TARGET DPS.
I wouldn't choose in my group a fake dps, i'd rather take a GWF that can deal both area and single target dps or a CW. Even a GF would be more useful.
As of now the TR is really well structured and we are not refused based on a prejudice (maybe based on the gs but that's another story for which you are not to be blamed). For istance,w I played with a GWF that had a similar equipment to mine where he could outdamage me with a group of mobs and i could eventually reach his dps again with a single target. These are called balanced classes.
P.S. i've never dealt 100kk damage with one single shot. The highest peak is 450-550k all by myself. Go nerf other classes' buffs.
I'm a simple 14k TR that has never abandoned this character since 2013. I've lived every single change that was introduced to this class and i've seen the difference between being useful and being useless. I've lived all those moments where TR's were never grouped for any dungeon. This is what led me to momentarily leave Neverwinter, which is probably going to happen anyway again if these changes will be real (and i can ensure I'm not the only one). You seriously need to play your own game in order to judge the changes that are going to take place.
Again, right now I'm 14k gs and I'm already struggling to find any group, let alone after the next patch where it will be obvious that the other classes will be having a 10 times better DPS. TR is neither a support nor a tank, so i don't see why you should nerf the only role that it fits: SINGLE TARGET DPS.
I wouldn't choose in my group a fake dps, i'd rather take a GWF that can deal both area and single target dps or a CW. Even a GF would be more useful.
As of now the TR is really well structured and we are not refused based on a prejudice (maybe based on the gs but that's another story for which you are not to be blamed). For istance,w I played with a GWF that had a similar equipment to mine where he could outdamage me with a group of mobs and i could eventually reach his dps again with a single target. These are called balanced classes.
P.S. i've never dealt 100kk damage with one single shot. The highest peak is 450-550k all by myself. Go nerf other classes' buffs.
If at 14k you're hitting 550k solo SoDs, you're not doing something right. My 8k TR can do that much.
if he beat you it dosn't mean much for the class just means you don't play the TR class as well as you should be as for wheel it dosn't atter who get it from buffers it dmg is added to thier score in the board anway so yeah he is just better than you as a player overall and classes got nothing to do with it if ur both end game in fact TR cna dish out more dmg atm if plyaed correctly but that all depends on some variables and players so even if both of you doign dmg u shouldn't be that much afar llike 100 mil difference at best by the end of the run
in reality. I have always been above about 200 million for all the dungeons, then when I let the sword take him, at the end of the dungeon we had the same damage
Smoke Bomb didn't have its damage reduced because of the AoC bug, that was a bug and as such it was fixed. The damage was reduced because it was a power primarily intended to control targets, not to also be one of the highest damaging powers in the TR arsenal and as such be used in almost all situations.
@noworries#8859 I did a quick read through after your response but didn't see this addressed.
You say Smoke Bomb shouldn't be one of the highest DPS powers and was intended to control. How exactly, do you propose it be used for control when you just removed the slow?
I mean, if it's not supposed to be DPS I could see why you might lower the damage but to lower the damage by 30%, fix a broken interaction that had been making it vastly OP and removing the slow? You took it from being useful to being basically worthless. This shows me that you don't even recognize the changes you're doing.
You say one thing but the changes made simply don't reflect that.
None of the proposed changes make any sense at all unless you factor in that every single alterered skill, at will, daily and encounter are the ones that PVP players object too the most frequently. It's almost like the devs heard the complaints that much that they just mega nerfed the TR to get a moments peace. A class destroyed because of the 1%
The issue with neverwinter isn't the dps of any class, it's that all content comes down to nothing more than a dps race....just kill stuff. Castle never has so much popularity because it actually has some unique dungeon mechanics. Rather than make ACTUAL engaging and challenging content you've taken the lazy option and made the exisiting garbage take 3x longer to complete and blunted us completely.
None of this would be an issue if PVP and PVE were entirely seperate, and if you released content that engaged us to do more than just kill mobs. When killing is the only objective dps matters.
None of the proposed changes make any sense at all unless you factor in that every single alterered skill, at will, daily and encounter are the ones that PVP players object too the most frequently. It's almost like the devs heard the complaints that much that they just mega nerfed the TR to get a moments peace. A class destroyed because of the 1%
The issue with neverwinter isn't the dps of any class, it's that all content comes down to nothing more than a dps race....just kill stuff. Castle never has so much popularity because it actually has some unique dungeon mechanics. Rather than make ACTUAL engaging and challenging content you've taken the lazy option and made the exisiting garbage take 3x longer to complete and blunted us completely.
None of this would be an issue if PVP and PVE were entirely seperate, and if you released content that engaged us to do more than just kill mobs. When killing is the only objective dps matters.
Tr wasn't nerfed because of pvp. No, it was nerfed to the ground due to tr doing 100 million damage with 1 hit. Still wonder why other classes who did 100 million or more damage with 1 hit such as gf for example weren't nerfed to the ground.
Still hoping for some reasonable changes, enthusiasm for game is gone. completely. I have two characters the DO and TR, really is no reason to continue for all the reasons noted in forums. I am embarrassed by the money and time spent on the game. Developers do the right thing here, suck up your pride and make the right changes, we won’t say I told you so, it’s past that. Far Cry, Dishonoured, Red dead redemption and Fall Out all await...
None of the proposed changes make any sense at all unless you factor in that every single alterered skill, at will, daily and encounter are the ones that PVP players object too the most frequently. It's almost like the devs heard the complaints that much that they just mega nerfed the TR to get a moments peace. A class destroyed because of the 1%
Yep. While it is true they are improving the other trees... In order for the trees being balanced, there, well, needs equality. Since MI Exec is the main nerf, that means the "improved trees" are also stuck at nerfed mod15 version of the MI Exec. Someone said that the MI Exec is fine right now on live, but nobody rejects that fact. That's actually why it's annoying. A module or two where TRs invited to groups
Comments
Sono incredulo e molto dubbioso su questo nerf...
Sono davvero curioso di vedere il nuovo danno di TR nel mod 15, voi sviluppatori dite che lo fate per migliorare il nosro modo di giocare...ne siete veramente sicuri ? vedremo..
(Quando avete cambiato la raffinazione dei diamanti astrali, avete detto che lo avete fatto perchè era stato richiesto dai giocatori, beh, leggendo i vari commenti, tutti dicevano di non cambiare la raffinazione a 100k per giorno, ma questa è un altra storia)
Tornando al Ladro...purtroppo sono su ps4 e, non ho la possibilità di vedere e testare la differenza del danno, quindi posso solo sperare che i ladri su pc trovino una soluzione a questi drastici cambiamenti...
Per tanti, e dico tanti mesi, noi ladri non siamo stati invitati nei dungeons content, perchè avevamo un basso danno...con le ultime mod 13/14, abbiamo iniziato a crescere e ad essere competitivi con le altre classi dps...era bello stare alla pari delle altre classi dps...detto questo...non mi dispererò e non piangerò per questo drastico nerf, ovviamente non sono d'accordo su questo mega nerf, ad ogni modo, vedremo se avrete fatto passi avanti, o avrete fatto passi indietro.
English version:
I am incredulous and very doubtful about this nerf ...
I'm really curious to see the new damage of TR in mod 15, you developers say you do it to improve our way of playing ... are you really sure? we'll see..
(When you changed the refining of the astral diamonds, you said you did it because it was requested by the players, well, reading the various comments, everyone said not to change the refinement to 100k per day, but that's another story)
Returning to the Thief ... unfortunately I'm on ps4 and, I can not see and test the difference in damage, so I can only hope that the thieves on the pc find a solution to these drastic changes ...
For many, and I say many months, we thieves were not invited in the dungeons content, because we had a low damage ... with the latest mod 13/14, we started to grow and be competitive with other dps classes ... it was nice to stay on par with other dps classes ... said this ... I will not despair and I will not cry for this drastic nerf, obviously I do not agree on this mega nerf, however, we'll see if you have made progress, or you will have taken steps back.
im 18k +, gwf 16.5k and supports about 17k +
I have all the perfect equipment to be on top, rings +5 equip 550 500 540 mythical artifacts, legendary companions, offensive insignia, right bonus mounts, legendary disc and snail, and perfect stats 100% crit, sever crit, and pen arm . and about 230 of power in combat on the mannequins ... in short, everything you want to have, I have it (i mean...2 years farm from release on ps4)
Now, I do not know if the supports have given the wheel and all buffs to the gwf, I have not seen ..
for sure ... I was not using the power looping because I was using (Wwob and LA) or (CB and LA) ... and I let it take the sword at the gwf. OK, maybe I do not use the perfect rotation, ok, I sometimes died to the sisters and maybe I lost some damage ok... and it's also true that IL does not count ....Now, you can say that I'm scarce, you can say what you want ... anyway .. at the end of the dungeon we had the exact same damage .. but the point is not this ... the point is ... if the gwf had my same IL would have easily overcome my damage ... but you nerf tr ... and in light of this, the difference in mod 15 will be huge ... and we all know, that for dungeons, people take those who do more damage.
If we are limited to a DPS ceiling that can't be broken, then irrespective of paragon path, feats, companions, mounts, boons and understanding of the class, all rogues will be identical in terms of performance at end game.
I 100% agree that executioner was getting out of hand, but this was solely to do with bugged interactions with class buffs. But the end result is that players will build for what works, whichever build outs out the most damage will become the new paint by numbers, the new meta build.
I find it ironic that you nerf smokebomb because it was only ever intended as a control ability...all while stripping it of control effects. Less damage, no longer slows and will have a smaller area of effect. Mod15 TR promises to be the most pathetic yet. And don't tell me these changes aren't purely about PvP, blatantly untrue.
Also, he took the sword? You do realize how much damage the sword does? A perfectly timed dawn strike could one-shot the last boss. Literally.
I'm not trying to throw shade here, but your comparison really means nothing. It's like comparing DPS between a TR and GWF, and GWF had the Bloody Death buff on orcus.
If DODC were full dps, where will we end up? already we have to compete with the gwf hr gf sw cw to have a place in the group as dps ... we add the DODC is over, while if the dps all had the same damage, the discrimination would not be there ... and there would be only a class preference in choosing a dps which would always be a discrimination ... but at least you would have no problem saying ... what does it matter to choose one or the other ... they all do the same damage
The last change to Impossible to Catch made it unable to activate during other attacks, it either interrupts the previous attack or it will activate after the attack is done, you can test it with Duelist's Flurry. Please revert that change, we will rather accept it going on cooldown without effect after dodge than being unable to activate during other attacks.
Now, on to your aspersion that the TR is too overpowered right now. I will take what you said about 100mil hits to mean overpowered since that specific example is a feat that almost every class can accomplish in the right conditions. In very select situations, with exactly the right team composition, then yes, a TR can outshine anyone else. It might have "sky high damage" in these situations, but these situations are not every TR in every dungeon. And that is why you don't see us acknowledging your claim that our damage is ridiculously high. And as others have pointed out the situations in which we are able to reach "sky high damage" is in LARGE part due to bugs or not wai. AoC and WoB being the poignant ones. You take a group sans paladin and not looping, and suddenly the same TR who doubled everyone else last run is now even with the gwf and hr. Maybe a little above or a little below. That is what we the community see as balance. What do YOU consider balance since this is clearly not it? What you're calling "sky high damage" is what we're calling par with other classes. This is where there is a communication gap that needs to be filled.
I get what you're saying about needing to change things. Most of us do. There are many, many comments on here that are moderate. But, what we're not understanding is the EXTENT and REASONS of the changes ... To a single class. When only a few of the changes would meet your stated goal. When almost every other class can do the SAME thing we're being told is unacceptable. I'm not going to call for nerfs to other classes. I want to know why we're being targeted and punished for it.
Smoke bomb. You're lowering the damage on sb because it's intended to be a control power, not a damage power. But you're TAKING AWAY half the control. Not to mention the absurd recharge. And the fact that at end game most stuff has cc resist or immunity. So, if it doesn't control, doesn't deal damage, what is it SUPPOSED to do? I will refrain from making comparisons with similar powers from other classes because I do not wish to be misconstrued as asking for nerfs to other classes. But have YOU looked at how inline it is with similar powers from other classes WITHOUT the insane AoC procs? If you don't want it to be a damage power then it actually needs to do something else useful. The cc it provides needs to be improved or something.
And you still haven't addressed reasons for movement reductions.
Edited for grammar and clarity.
Outside of my guild i really can't see the reasoning for any queue group to waste a slot in T9G bringing a rogue along.
Those of us who refused to play the cookie cutter builds have few other options now.
You served us a tuna salad without the tuna.... How dare you even try to force this down our throats.
Gloaming cut refilling stealth as sabo gave us around 10 seconds of stealth time if we sacrificed power feats for stealth feats. Now even with the extended stealth feats our stealth ends very quickly. (Power feats are all that are needed now)
Mobility won't be high enough to assist us in escaping red zones in pve or escaping get, gf, sw, hr in pve. (So power insignias will be needed instead of mobility insignias)
Stamina gain critical and power out weighs all other things now except for deflection.
It's better to quickly kill in pve and pve now than to use any control or mobility builds.
Scoundrel deflection builds will do well with new feat reworks.
Executioner will fair ok
Sab will be <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
So thanks for pushing us all to a new meta build that relies little on control or stealth.
In the recent update on the preview server you have buffed the TR damage by 5%.
In all honesty, this is not even close to bringing the TR back to life in end game dungeons.
If we look back into the this thread, there are many information our experienced TR players have provided to back this up.
It has been brought up in this thread many times but the rework for TR in module 15 has destroyed the CORE mechanic of STACKING dailies(to buff power output) and ITC to reach what other dps classes can achieve.
The changes in this CORE mechanic cannot be filled with an overall damage buff by5%.
Just to make sure it makes sense, this CORE mechanic is used whether you choose to play Saboteur, Scoundrel or Executioner (the 3 trees given to us).
That ends one message I would like to send to you.
Another message I also like to say is as below:
Although I would like to argue that TR's should have one of the highest SINGLE TARGET DPS, this was only achieved during module 14 with the broken interaction with Aura of Courage and smoke bomb (multi proc) and the overpowered Shadow of Demise.
And now that the Aura of Courage is fixed to one proc per encounter and Shadow of Demise toned down to as it was pre module 14, along with the changes to our CORE mechanic in module 15, it is not a lie to say that we have nothing to bring to the table in end game dungeons. (even after the 5% buff)
I apologies for the long text but please developers. Please work with us to come to a solution to this Class balance.
As a fact, no one in this TR community has opposed to your decision to rework this CORE mechanic. We just wish the TR to become bug free and also be able to become a high SINGLE TARGET DPS.
Thank you for reading.
Those things would have been more than enough to bring TR in line. I understand the dislike of power increasing abilities but i dont understand the replacement being two times worse.
@noworries#8859 There is still time to rethink these changes, there is plenty of quality feedback. It's your move now.
But with different lyrics:
We thought our time has come
But after one Mod it's gone
Trickster starts fear the developers
But not the Gwfs, Hrs,or Gfs
We can't be like they are
Come on Tr, start fear the Pvp'ers
Can someone explain?, Start fear the community
We are not allowed to shine, start fear to play
Why always the hate?
La, la, la, la, la
La, la, la, la, la
2x
Again, right now I'm 14k gs and I'm already struggling to find any group, let alone after the next patch where it will be obvious that the other classes will be having a 10 times better DPS. TR is neither a support nor a tank, so i don't see why you should nerf the only role that it fits: SINGLE TARGET DPS.
I wouldn't choose in my group a fake dps, i'd rather take a GWF that can deal both area and single target dps or a CW. Even a GF would be more useful.
As of now the TR is really well structured and we are not refused based on a prejudice (maybe based on the gs but that's another story for which you are not to be blamed). For istance,w I played with a GWF that had a similar equipment to mine where he could outdamage me with a group of mobs and i could eventually reach his dps again with a single target. These are called balanced classes.
P.S. i've never dealt 100kk damage with one single shot. The highest peak is 450-550k all by myself. Go nerf other classes' buffs.
in reality. I have always been above about 200 million for all the dungeons, then when I let the sword take him, at the end of the dungeon we had the same damage
@noworries#8859
I did a quick read through after your response but didn't see this addressed.
You say Smoke Bomb shouldn't be one of the highest DPS powers and was intended to control. How exactly, do you propose it be used for control when you just removed the slow?
I mean, if it's not supposed to be DPS I could see why you might lower the damage but to lower the damage by 30%, fix a broken interaction that had been making it vastly OP and removing the slow? You took it from being useful to being basically worthless. This shows me that you don't even recognize the changes you're doing.
You say one thing but the changes made simply don't reflect that.
The issue with neverwinter isn't the dps of any class, it's that all content comes down to nothing more than a dps race....just kill stuff. Castle never has so much popularity because it actually has some unique dungeon mechanics. Rather than make ACTUAL engaging and challenging content you've taken the lazy option and made the exisiting garbage take 3x longer to complete and blunted us completely.
None of this would be an issue if PVP and PVE were entirely seperate, and if you released content that engaged us to do more than just kill mobs. When killing is the only objective dps matters.
Still wonder why other classes who did 100 million or more damage with 1 hit such as gf for example weren't nerfed to the ground.
¨˜ˆ”°¹~•-.„¸ρℓαуιиg иєνєяωιитєя ѕιи¢є 2015¸„.-•~¹°”ˆ˜¨
Developers do the right thing here, suck up your pride and make the right changes, we won’t say I told you so, it’s past that.
Far Cry, Dishonoured, Red dead redemption and Fall Out all await...