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Is it time to nerf FBI yet?
chemjeff
Member Posts: 544 Arc User
The dungeon is 2 years old. And yet random teams still have a hard time even getting past the first set of mobs to the first boss. Is this right? It is ridiculous. The gear from this dungeon is not BIS anymore. This dungeon is only for RAD and for farming. Why should it be so difficult? It is time to nerf this dungeon. Either get rid of half of the giants/orcs/bears on the way to the first boss, or nerf them so they aren't so awful. This dungeon is no longer an end-game dungeon. It is not Castle Ravenloft. It does not have BIS gear. Why should it be so difficult for a random team? It is time for the devs to admit that they made this dungeon too hard in the first place.
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Yes, the hill climb is the part that causes PUG/random Qs to wipe the most, esp if you get an inexperienced/undergeared tank.
Even an 18k exp GWF has no chance if the random tank is undergeared/experienced.
Here I agree with you. Tone down giant one-hit attacks on the hill climb.
Respectfully, not sure I agree about the rest. Hati just requires knowing his AI/attack rotations, good tank positioning and everyone doing their role.
Same with the troll-tunnels. Maybe ease up on the Turtle-slam trigger, otherwise that is straightforward "learn the mechanics".
3rd boss... meh, either way. Most people wipe there not because she hits too hard but because they get stuck in ice or don't hide from her call of winter.
So... I guess I one-third agree with you?
I am Took.
"Full plate and packing steel" in NW since 2013.
PUGs will be PuGs and nerfing is unnecessary we've already power creeped FBI by ~4 modules worth of gear. Funnily enough, both Svardborg variations will give you the random queue AD so as long as the instance finishes, meaning that even if you lose... you still get rAQ dosh.
The only downside is that you lose out on the Svardborg loot ... but is the Svardborg loot really worth much to anyone at this point?
Au contraire - I belive we need more dungeons with the difficultty level compared to FBI or MSP. Currently they are something like CN with old Orcus was three years ago.
I think that this kind of dungeons would be more than welcomed by a majority of the playerbase.
Edit: One more good thing I find about FBI is that it's a great training area for tank players and amazing opportunity to get the experience, especially for GFs.
...And when you don’t rush in like an unruly pack of hyenas, it’s apparent that one mob has a little dialogue, then runs off to grab his friends. Preventing that runners escape makes things very manageable..
This my friends, is the rub, of this game. While the combat system has great potential and can be quite fun, the design of the game has led players to perform more like ‘hero’s,’ than teammates. Consequently, grouping...98% of the time becomes a /facepalming exercise in frustration.
There is no reason to nerf any dungeons.
EDIT : I have said it a many many times why not have master and normal version of dungeons like we used to that makes it easier for players to get end game and allow them to play all content like FBI/MSP/CR. even if lower il and i do not mean a 3 man dungeon i mean a 5 man dungeon with oponent just lower il or less dps and less hp will do it(if they do not want to scale it truely).
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)
Recent changes with catch up systems/RL zone and iL reqs for dungeons would suggest devs want more of their playerbase to experience more of their content. Even changes to AD and RQ itself have been stated to be in the best interest of the game and majority of their playerbase. The benefits of which should be obvious to all.
If the devs want the majority of their player base not only to experience more of this content but experience it in a more positive manner with a higher likelihood of returning and repeating their content then yes changes should be made. In this case particularly the hill climb where RQ is concerned. This is the first test and even "harder" then the actual bosses for most pugs imo. The one shots are confounded with the min iL reqs that allow roles to be fulfilled by under geared players.
This is not pre-made. People should not expect to get carried or expect near guaranteed success. However the expectation of the devs and players wanting a positive experience while also meaningfully contributing to the groups efforts is not an absurd one and in this case pretty easily achieved imo.
This is not the latest dungeon. It is reasonable that either the iL should be increased if left untouched or aspects of it retuned to reflect the age and more accessible it has become. Since trends have moved towards accessibility its more logical that this content gets tuned down in areas. These are not my wants/needs but a simple neutral pov.
People that immediately quit shouldn't be rewarded with easier content.
Maybe players need to know more about how work their classes.
We do not have already enough endgame dungeons.
If FBI is far to hard for one team, they need to go back to CN.
Not all giants are link, in case that help low ilv team.
It is useful info for sure, however the fact if you run in like hyenas as you put it (even more unfortunate that this is the general behaviour of a lot of players) and then proceed to get one shot is more in line for end game dungeons if it even has a place in the game at all. This type of thing has been discussed many years in mmos and probably beaten to death in this game too.
These sort of "mechanics/difficulty" are not what you give players who you are trying to encourage participation and catch up systems to such as Min iL characters. This is not a new or remotely new end game dungeon or at least from the devs placing it in that position in RQ it is not considered end game by them. If players consider this end game content something is wrong and no its not simply they are all bad players failing miserably lol.
Expecting a 15k tank in every pug run so things go smooth (as mentioned by @mynaam) is unrealistic when the reqs have been lowered to accept much lower iLs. Telling people to go back to CN like @helric9 says would seem to not be what the devs want with these changes not to mention that 9k+ iL characters are carried through that content all the time and suffer the same as those in RQ FBI. Same problem different scale and content except a lot more players will meet the necessary iL to carry that content.
@pitshade
Yes if you wipe, you can pick yourself up and continue to wipe until you brute force your way through after a while. I have done this myself. But why did I do it? Because the tank was Min iL and couldn't handle the content or the healer was constantly dead for the same reason. Even when this is done they soon realise that this is no place for them and leave at bosses or make others feel it is more hassle then realistically/acceptably need be and leave themselves. This is not a positive thing given these circumstances even though you make it sound like one. Maybe in pre-mades this is fine but for RQ it should not be.
Apologies in advance for the low quality of the video, it is my very first video, and I evidently forgot to include the setting for sound.
The video is 19 minutes, and it is just for the hill climb portion. Our team did end up finishing the dungeon, it took about 70 minutes overall. No problems with first boss, had to do second boss twice, and had to do third boss twice.
I will freely admit that I am not a very good tank. Probably somewhere around average. But the point of the video is not to show off how awesome of a tank I have. The point is to show one example of what solo queueing for FBI is like with a typical team. Basically, each set of giants constitutes their own set of minibosses. This is the case even if only small packs of mobs are aggroed at once. You'll see one point in the video where the team managed to get two giants down to almost dead, but then the team wiped and the giants reset to full health. That was a bit heartbreaking to be honest. From the point of view of teams like this, this dungeon has something like 7 or 8 boss fights, not just 3.
My question is, what is the point in having this portion of the dungeon so difficult *at this point in the evolution of the game*, particularly considering this dungeon no longer drops endgame loot and is not for character progression, just for farming?
Sanctuary will immunize you to giants charge, but move out when they thrown rocks.
I suggest you to use relentless avenger, it's very powerfull on the climbing part.
Don't use BO before TW, too dangerous. Your temp hp look low, have you enough offensives characteristics ?
Where is your pet ? edit : Ok you play with augment.
To be honest, on this video you are one very big part of the problem, i'm sorry.
OP had problems going up the hill. He eventually admitted that he's been playing only for six months and paid $1000. One of the dps then taught him what skills to use and how to tank. We made it up the hill okay after that. We even took out the first and second boss pretty easy. The final boss doomed us. The OP never got the hang of what to do vs Call of Winter. But that can be overcome with scrolls. What we couldn't overcome was the 13K dps was also new player. The other two dps couldn't make up for the low dps and take down the boss in a reasonable time before mistakes got us. Finally voted abandon after a few tries. Never got the boss past 50% hp.
I think the hill can be left alone. If a group can't work something out to get up the hill, they have little chance at the final boss. If they nerf the hill, then they should nerf the final boss also.
He should bring just his friends and leave the others up there.
But don't fight up where he stands, you will aggro the roamer that also got friends etc.
Need a group with some discipline that will let the tank manage pulling and not bum rush.
That is one thing really missing in NW. NWians are not used to hard content where doing proper pulling and tactics is required, so in particular up-and-coming players have no discipline at all. I'll congratulate Cryptic on making the FBI Ascent really, finally an area where bum rush will get you killed. There if something of the same in MSP where encounters spawn from player proximity and can be avoided. We need more of these areas where smart pulling and moving makes a difference.
I used to play this other mmorpg, and they had:
* If you messed up pulls, even on trash, the group had a good chance of wiping -> group discipline
* 'Active' and 'passive' aggro.. if you pulled by proximity aggro you got 'passive' aggro where the mobs would not yell for help and bring only their group. If you pulled by attacking you got 'active' aggro and the mobs would yell for help and bring everything in range.
The devs could configure proximity aggro ranges and yell aggro ranges to make interesting scenarios. Pulling was a great minigame by itself.
I keep saying overandoverandover again - pre end game content teaches the players nothing but how to facepalm the mobs in almost god mode constantly.
And the weekly/daily quests to grind through mean that for most players Neverwinter is about speed and doing things *fast* all the time.
SO imagine their surprise when there is actually a challenge like the hill climb - and then players wonder why new players can't do it.
So yes for Random Queue purposes it might as well get nerfed now -
I soloed the uphill and I'm not even a tank. There was an HR that soloed entire FBI it a few years ago.
Stop whining.
The HR you are talking about was Sume in Mod 12. Sume is one of the best HRs ingame.
The problem is with the players who queue up for it without being ready for it - people should really run any content a few times with a "proper" group before queueing up for a "random" run that includes that content.