Maybe they don't want to do all the killing for you, either.
Perfect! I'll have fun killing them myself!
It's a big difference: - looting for others is not fun - killing is fun (for others or whatever)
Post edited by robai#6206 on
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,149Arc User
It seems the best, simplest answer is simply to make it a group effort all around.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
It isn't really hard to suspect a character is ignoring drops when they go through the entire content without slowing down (or doubling back if the occasion calls for it) to even look at anything, or they just run by mobs without even confronting them...
I realize not all drops are available or seen by all players in a party but even in this thread you have players who admit they don't take time to pick up drops because if another player does pick it up they may get it.
You don't know they aren't picking anything up. When I'm on my paladin, I look like I'm not picking anything up. The reality is that I am picking up whatever I can while I'm standing there fighting. I will also pick up stuff that I happen to run across after the battle is over. I don't tend to look behind me for stuff because I'm the tank and I like to get into the fight early to make sure others don't get killed right away and that everyone else can position themselves for maximum advantage and safety without having to worry about mobs aggroing on them. To that end, I've put a lot of work into my paladin's movement bonus, which is currently 8350 (almost 21%). Now, if you ever group with me and you prefer that I spend time after the fight looking for all the loot that dropped and making sure to pick it up, leaving you to be exposed to possible instant aggro at the next fight, then you be sure to let me know that and I'll be happy to let the mobs drop you at every fight first and then get aggro. K?
Never said I "knew" when people weren't picking up drops I said it wasn't hard for me to "suspect" people weren't picking up drops, like the one hit wonders who negate mobs then immediately move on - or better yet the people who just run by mobs, leaving following party members to deal with them... and they're still occasionally rewarded with refinement gems, earth, fire, water, air, etc. drops via the random roll method.
I too play a tank characters on occasion and attempt to enter the fray with mobs ahead of lower level or lesser geared characters to draw aggro, but that being said when the mobs are defeated I choose to remain with the party until other party members have done what they want to do in the area before moving on... not run on ahead to where other party members figure they have to keep up with me.
Primarily because despite as you said some players like to have the mobs cleared for them so all they have to do is follow along and clean up after - other players actually want to participate in content including confronting and defeating mobs or seeing an area before all the opponents are defeated and the only thing around is sparkling bag and coin drops.
Not knowing which, I prefer to err on the side of courtesy and play random party content as it was designed, as a member of the "Party" and at least in my mind that usually does not mean someone attempting to solo the content with everyone else expected to just following along behind...
The "be sure to let me know" if a mob respawns or arrives after you've moved on... you do realize not every player reads the forum and is privy to your personal play-style and tactics, not every player speaks the same language in random runs and some characters are even chat blocked below a certain level don't you?
How are they supposed to let you know anything if you've already rushed on and are no longer with the other characters in the party?
But I will admit communication in a lot of content seems to be minimal - or non existent even from players who can chat each other up... aside from the occasional "Hurry up slacker" or similar comments, the likes of which I've personally witnessed from some players... only once has someone in the party said "run ahead and kill everything, I'll catch up", but then the other party member said "no don't, let's stick together".
Some people hate being forced to roll (in R queue) on greens. Some people hate the fact that they don’t get the greens they pick up, and instead most of them go to other players — including some who ignore them, and some who throw them away. This is because of outdated design: Non-named loot, at level 70, is 50 RP at the cost of an ID scroll (or like... 15AD?). It’s never anything other than that.
Get rid of random greens at level 70. Replace them with Peridots/Black Opals/Amethysts (some ratio that keeps the average at 50). Everyone likes those, nobody gets their inventory filled by those, nobody is going to throw them away, and that solves half the problem. Make green plus items auto-rolls (like DH, but party-wide - no pickup) and the other half of the problem is solved.
But in the meantime it’s pretty annoying to have my inventory filled with random unidentified greens that I’ll just toss, especially when I know that someone apparently wants them enough to potentially slow down the run just for a 1/5 shot at them... and as this thread shows it’s just as annoying for people on the other side.
Kind of why I earlier suggested a "decline" or "no thank you" option for people who would rather pass on the random roll items being offered...
Those who want random drops can have them, those that don't won't see their inventories filling up with items the just have to dispose of later.
All green gear can be converted to refinement points some as @xveganrox mentioned even equivalent to a peridot, but still, it takes an ID scroll to identify those items and not everyone has buku ID scrolls, or cares to purchase VIP where they get ID scrolls every day just for signing on and collecting them...
It is a very enticing reason to purchase VIP for those who can afford it, or for those who can talk their parents in to letting them buy it though.
But something to keep in mind is also some players need or want those "random greens" because those drops are first of all free, and players occasionally also pick up level appropriate ID scrolls in random content so the stuff they pick up can be identified - also for free - and the gear they wind up with might be better than the gear they are currently playing with.
We should all try to remember, not everyone who runs random content are level 70 players, have VIP, don't need refinement points or players who already have BIS gear for their level.
Something I've started doing is offering class specific gear to other members of the party in "trade" along with any ID scrolls I picked up along the way to other members of the party who are of that class, but as it turns out a lot players are so eager to leave the content after the boss battle they don't stick around long enough for me to even offer...
No biggie for those who are quick to exit, I figure they are just players running alts or don't really need the gear or scrolls anyway.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,149Arc User
Kind of why I earlier suggested a "decline" or "no thank you" option for people who would rather pass on the random roll items being offered...
You're supposed to be able to set your personal threshold to whatever you want it at, be it green, blue, or purple.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Get rid of random greens at level 70. Replace them with Peridots/Black Opals/Amethysts (some ratio that keeps the average at 50).
What is a problem to pick up that green item on the ground? That extra second is worth it (unless you don't receive it most of the time as it is the case in the current system).
When soloing those green items drops often and it's fun to pick them up since now we have very nice features "Identify all" and "convert all".
I understand that everyone wants speed and efficiency, but this game is already too much zerg style. Dungeon crawling is almost non existent in this game. If "picking up items" will be removed then it will become even more zerg to the end style. There are much bigger issues, but I won't go into details here (I might post a big thread about that later).
So stop whinging about this system because it's no different when it comes to the odds of actually getting some dropped loot out of the dungeon.
It's not about the odds at all. It's about this: picking up loot for others (especially for those who don't pick up loot). In other words: I don't want to be a slave.
You're not a slave. If you feel like you're a slave because you pick up loot, then stop doing it. If enough people stop doing it, then others will be forced to start picking it up. I rarely win any of the rolls; I get maybe two pieces of RNG gear per dungeon run, if I'm lucky. That includes when I'm running around picking it up. My wife spends more time picking loot up than I do and she doesn't see much more than that, herself. Personally, I mostly pick up the loot that is near me or that I'm already running past. From what I've observed, most people do this.
TBH, I would love the opportunity, to set my loot rules to ' ignore green drops', so they dont loiter my screen or my bags. If I would need RP, I could reactivate my LS army. What I dont like is the statement 'I picked it up, it is mine', bc the other players did contribute too and if someone thinks, that his time is better spent by killing the mobs and letting the other (maybe lower geared players) do the looting, it is his choice and this choice might be appreciated by some players, bc it is time saving and other players might hate it, bc they feel degraded by it.
What I dont like is the statement 'I picked it up, it is mine', bc the other players did contribute too
What contribution are you talking about? Killing is easy and fun.
Walking over to pick up loot is even easier. Some might even consider it fun. I see some, I would say "professional", panhandlers on my way to/from work every day. They must enjoy it to a certain degree to be doing it every day for years.
Walking over to pick up loot is even easier. Some might even consider it fun.
The difference is that it's not fun to pick it up for others, even if it's easy.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,149Arc User
So pick it up for yourself and let the game decide if you get it.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
So pick it up for yourself and let the game decide if you get it.
The problem is that most of the time I won't get it. The game shouldn't show me the loot that's not mine anyway.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,149Arc User
It doesn't know if it is yours or not until after it gets picked up.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
It doesn't know if it is yours or not until after it gets picked up.
It should make a roll BEFORE picking up loot and show it to the winner only. Then the player can loot it or just ignore it (this is nothing new - we have exactly that when we solo).
Perhaps they could make virtually everyone happy and eliminate green equipment drops in lvl 70 dungeons and replace them with small direct RP rewards similar to how the one bonus event works.
Considering that you have to pick up 10,000 (not counting for critical success) pieces of useless green equipment to net even 500,000 RP, which doesn't go very far at all, it's not difficult to understand why many players ignore the trash drops.
It should make a roll BEFORE picking up loot and show it to the winner only. Then the player can loot it or just ignore it (this is nothing new - we have exactly that when we solo).
Except when you solo THERE'S NO ONE ELSE IN A PARTY WITH YOU!
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Except when you solo THERE'S NO ONE ELSE IN A PARTY WITH YOU!
Yup, the loot should drop the same way as it drops in solo, that is: 1) if you see green stuff on the ground and pick it up then it's 100% yours (you get what you see, no stupid additional rolls) 2) if you see green stuff on the ground and don't pick it up then your inventory won't be filled with it (it's useful when playing bank toons with small inventory) 3) also no picking up loot for OTHERS (very important!)
3) also no picking up loot for OTHERS (very important!)
Then why do you pick up loot now? It's going to others 80% of the time. If others benefiting from it eats at you, you should just ignore the loot. Chances are, someone else will pick them up and you can just enjoy the fruits of 20% of their labor.
Post edited by namelesshero347 on
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,149Arc User
Yup, the loot should drop the same way as it drops in solo, that is: 1) if you see green stuff on the ground and pick it up then it's 100% yours (you get what you see, no stupid additional rolls) 2) if you see green stuff on the ground and don't pick it up then your inventory won't be filled with it (it's useful when playing bank toons with small inventory) 3) also no picking up loot for OTHERS (very important!)
Do all your runs solo. Problem solved.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Then why do you pick up loot now? It's going to others 80% of the time. If others benefiting from it eats at you, you should just ignore the loot. Chances are, someone else will pick them up and you can just enjoy the fruits of 20% of their labor.
Yup, I ignore loot most of the time in groups now, which means it's a dumb design (the whole point of this thread).
This is a multiplayer game, isn't it? I've mentioned solo just to show that the loot drop system is already in the game.
Example: - you go to Stronghold to do an Influence run, you kill mobs, you see green items on the ground, you pick it up, it goes to your inventory (everything is ok). - now you hit K and go for some easy AD, kill mobs, and if you pick up item that drops you don't receive it most of the time (this is so stupid)
EDIT: Current loot drop system is similar to spamm in your mails (nobody likes spamm, right?). Would you like to see spamm in your mails 80% of time? NO. Current loot system does this: - it shows you that you've got a mail (you see green item on the ground) - you open that mail (you pick up that item) - and 80% of time it's useless info for you, i.e. you see spamm (you don't receive item 80% of time)
Post edited by robai#6206 on
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,149Arc User
But it changes when you go into a party. The assumption then is it would require man-hours and recoding to alter it for party loot to become like solo loot and probably not worth the time/effort/cost.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
EDIT: Current loot drop system is similar to spamm in your mails (nobody likes spamm, right?). Would you like to see spamm in your mails 80% of time? NO. Current loot system does this: - it shows you that you've got a mail (you see green item on the ground) - you open that mail (you pick up that item) - and 80% of time it's useless info for you, i.e. you see spamm (you don't receive item 80% of time)
Err. No. You are stretching to defend your position. No one considers the loot system like mail. Lots of people pick up loot. And lots of people who don't pick up loot don't mind getting them. Its free RP and stuff to sell for gold. It's not spam to them.
When you see loot on the ground, it is not like mail. If you pick it up, it goes into the loot system. If you don't care for it, you can set the threshold to ignore them and not participate in the loot roll.
The loot system is what it is. Don't expect the devs to change it because the value of the change is trivial. It may be a high value change to you, but most people just don't care. We're talking green stuff and gold fodder. Cmon.
Kind of why I earlier suggested a "decline" or "no thank you" option for people who would rather pass on the random roll items being offered...
You're supposed to be able to set your personal threshold to whatever you want it at, be it green, blue, or purple.
As you say, "you're - supposed - to be able to set your personal threshold...".
I can set my loot preference to "green", and get green items randomly placed in my inventory.
I can set my loot preference to "blue" and still get random green items dropped in my inventory, I can select "purple" and I still get random green items showing up in my inventory. I haven't tried "gold" or legendary setting yet, I figure if the rare and epic setting don't stop green items from being dropped into my inventory the legendary setting probably won't either.
For those who don't want to back read there this comment from one of the devs a few pages back in this thread.
Thank you for that information, we will take a look into that. The overall intention is that your threshold always applies, even in public groups with no leader.
So look like My Threshold was supposed to work in queues, even in RQs, but it is currently broken for RQs.
Logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end of it.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,149Arc User
For those who don't want to back read there this comment from one of the devs a few pages back in this thread.
Thank you for that information, we will take a look into that. The overall intention is that your threshold always applies, even in public groups with no leader.
So look like My Threshold was supposed to work in queues, even in RQs, but it is currently broken for RQs.
That is why I use words like "supposed to work".
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Except when you solo THERE'S NO ONE ELSE IN A PARTY WITH YOU!
Yup, the loot should drop the same way as it drops in solo, that is: 1) if you see green stuff on the ground and pick it up then it's 100% yours (you get what you see, no stupid additional rolls) 2) if you see green stuff on the ground and don't pick it up then your inventory won't be filled with it (it's useful when playing bank toons with small inventory) 3) also no picking up loot for OTHERS (very important!)
I disagree, we've already had that before the change and at least some speedsters scooped up everything leaving little or nothing for lower level and slower players...
Some of the faster players just picked up the "good stuff", leaving what they considered 'trash' for everyone else, why do you think the developers changed the loot method to random roll in the first place?
So once again going back to a system that was previously being abused by some and undeniably unfriendly to others is not an option I would personally support, nor I suspect any fair minded player would support.
I still think the best possible option is to get the threshold filter working - barring that I still think a "decline" option for random roll items would be a fair alternative.
As it is in random queues I just don't pick up any random content drops anymore unless every player in the party is a lower level than my character and if random roll items do wind up in my inventory, I still try to trade those items to those lower level characters, I also attempt to trade refinement gems to the lowest level player in the party, but so far those attempts have met with little – to be honest - abysmal success.
There are plenty of item drops for me in other content so I no longer feel any remorse about drops, particularly the better drops going to players who intentionally seem to be ignoring them in random queues.
I disagree, we've already had that before the change and at least some speedsters scooped up everything leaving little or nothing for lower level and slower players...
Some of the faster players just picked up the "good stuff", leaving what they considered 'trash' for everyone else, why do you think the developers changed the loot method to random roll in the first place?
Comments
It's a big difference:
- looting for others is not fun
- killing is fun (for others or whatever)
I too play a tank characters on occasion and attempt to enter the fray with mobs ahead of lower level or lesser geared characters to draw aggro, but that being said when the mobs are defeated I choose to remain with the party until other party members have done what they want to do in the area before moving on... not run on ahead to where other party members figure they have to keep up with me.
Primarily because despite as you said some players like to have the mobs cleared for them so all they have to do is follow along and clean up after - other players actually want to participate in content including confronting and defeating mobs or seeing an area before all the opponents are defeated and the only thing around is sparkling bag and coin drops.
Not knowing which, I prefer to err on the side of courtesy and play random party content as it was designed, as a member of the "Party" and at least in my mind that usually does not mean someone attempting to solo the content with everyone else expected to just following along behind...
The "be sure to let me know" if a mob respawns or arrives after you've moved on... you do realize not every player reads the forum and is privy to your personal play-style and tactics, not every player speaks the same language in random runs and some characters are even chat blocked below a certain level don't you?
How are they supposed to let you know anything if you've already rushed on and are no longer with the other characters in the party?
But I will admit communication in a lot of content seems to be minimal - or non existent even from players who can chat each other up... aside from the occasional "Hurry up slacker" or similar comments, the likes of which I've personally witnessed from some players... only once has someone in the party said "run ahead and kill everything, I'll catch up", but then the other party member said "no don't, let's stick together".
As I said; different play styles.
Just my 2¢
Get rid of random greens at level 70. Replace them with Peridots/Black Opals/Amethysts (some ratio that keeps the average at 50). Everyone likes those, nobody gets their inventory filled by those, nobody is going to throw them away, and that solves half the problem. Make green plus items auto-rolls (like DH, but party-wide - no pickup) and the other half of the problem is solved.
But in the meantime it’s pretty annoying to have my inventory filled with random unidentified greens that I’ll just toss, especially when I know that someone apparently wants them enough to potentially slow down the run just for a 1/5 shot at them... and as this thread shows it’s just as annoying for people on the other side.
Those who want random drops can have them, those that don't won't see their inventories filling up with items the just have to dispose of later.
All green gear can be converted to refinement points some as @xveganrox mentioned even equivalent to a peridot, but still, it takes an ID scroll to identify those items and not everyone has buku ID scrolls, or cares to purchase VIP where they get ID scrolls every day just for signing on and collecting them...
It is a very enticing reason to purchase VIP for those who can afford it, or for those who can talk their parents in to letting them buy it though.
But something to keep in mind is also some players need or want those "random greens" because those drops are first of all free, and players occasionally also pick up level appropriate ID scrolls in random content so the stuff they pick up can be identified - also for free - and the gear they wind up with might be better than the gear they are currently playing with.
We should all try to remember, not everyone who runs random content are level 70 players, have VIP, don't need refinement points or players who already have BIS gear for their level.
Something I've started doing is offering class specific gear to other members of the party in "trade" along with any ID scrolls I picked up along the way to other members of the party who are of that class, but as it turns out a lot players are so eager to leave the content after the boss battle they don't stick around long enough for me to even offer...
No biggie for those who are quick to exit, I figure they are just players running alts or don't really need the gear or scrolls anyway.
When soloing those green items drops often and it's fun to pick them up since now we have very nice features "Identify all" and "convert all".
I understand that everyone wants speed and efficiency, but this game is already too much zerg style. Dungeon crawling is almost non existent in this game. If "picking up items" will be removed then it will become even more zerg to the end style. There are much bigger issues, but I won't go into details here (I might post a big thread about that later).
The game shouldn't show me the loot that's not mine anyway.
Considering that you have to pick up 10,000 (not counting for critical success) pieces of useless green equipment to net even 500,000 RP, which doesn't go very far at all, it's not difficult to understand why many players ignore the trash drops.
Contagion - Cleric
Testament - Wizard
Pestilence - Ranger
Dominion - Paladin
NIGHTSWATCH
1) if you see green stuff on the ground and pick it up then it's 100% yours (you get what you see, no stupid additional rolls)
2) if you see green stuff on the ground and don't pick it up then your inventory won't be filled with it (it's useful when playing bank toons with small inventory)
3) also no picking up loot for OTHERS (very important!)
I've mentioned solo just to show that the loot drop system is already in the game.
Example:
- you go to Stronghold to do an Influence run, you kill mobs, you see green items on the ground, you pick it up, it goes to your inventory (everything is ok).
- now you hit K and go for some easy AD, kill mobs, and if you pick up item that drops you don't receive it most of the time (this is so stupid)
EDIT:
Current loot drop system is similar to spamm in your mails (nobody likes spamm, right?).
Would you like to see spamm in your mails 80% of time? NO.
Current loot system does this:
- it shows you that you've got a mail (you see green item on the ground)
- you open that mail (you pick up that item)
- and 80% of time it's useless info for you, i.e. you see spamm (you don't receive item 80% of time)
When you see loot on the ground, it is not like mail. If you pick it up, it goes into the loot system. If you don't care for it, you can set the threshold to ignore them and not participate in the loot roll.
The loot system is what it is. Don't expect the devs to change it because the value of the change is trivial. It may be a high value change to you, but most people just don't care. We're talking green stuff and gold fodder. Cmon.
I can set my loot preference to "green", and get green items randomly placed in my inventory.
I can set my loot preference to "blue" and still get random green items dropped in my inventory, I can select "purple" and I still get random green items showing up in my inventory. I haven't tried "gold" or legendary setting yet, I figure if the rare and epic setting don't stop green items from being dropped into my inventory the legendary setting probably won't either.
So look like My Threshold was supposed to work in queues, even in RQs, but it is currently broken for RQs.
Some of the faster players just picked up the "good stuff", leaving what they considered 'trash' for everyone else, why do you think the developers changed the loot method to random roll in the first place?
So once again going back to a system that was previously being abused by some and undeniably unfriendly to others is not an option I would personally support, nor I suspect any fair minded player would support.
I still think the best possible option is to get the threshold filter working - barring that I still think a "decline" option for random roll items would be a fair alternative.
As it is in random queues I just don't pick up any random content drops anymore unless every player in the party is a lower level than my character and if random roll items do wind up in my inventory, I still try to trade those items to those lower level characters, I also attempt to trade refinement gems to the lowest level player in the party, but so far those attempts have met with little – to be honest - abysmal success.
There are plenty of item drops for me in other content so I no longer feel any remorse about drops, particularly the better drops going to players who intentionally seem to be ignoring them in random queues.