There are a lot of people who don't mind someone running ahead, soloing random content just following along moping up...
But then you have runs where there is a "new player in the party" and they are left to amble through the content wondering what generated that pile of stuff on the ground (or how the person so far ahead got there, without confronting the mob ahead of them).
Whenever the random flashes the "New Player" in instance I always try to allow them to lead, or take the lead myself at a speed they can manage. Stopping or slowing when they do, sticking with them to fight off mobs and sometimes inform them about potential shortcuts, possible tactics, and sometimes various not in plain sight areas of interest.
For me it isn't all about making as many AD's as possible, it's about trying to make as many better players as possible.
There are a lot of people who don't mind someone running ahead, soloing random content just following along moping up...
But then you have runs where there is a "new player in the party" and they are left to amble through the content wondering what generated that pile of stuff on the ground (or how the person so far ahead got there, without confronting the mob ahead of them).
Whenever the random flashes the "New Player" in instance I always try to allow them to lead, or take the lead myself at a speed they can manage. Stopping or slowing when they do, sticking with them to fight off mobs and sometimes inform them about potential shortcuts, possible tactics, and sometimes various not in plain sight areas of interest.
For me it isn't all about making as many AD's as possible, it's about trying to make as many better players as possible.
I always show the newbz the two extra chests in Cloak Tower. You would be amazed how many Lvl 70's say " I never new about that..."
The rolling for gear drops is borderline acceptable although a little unfair for the players who have a character who would benefit from those gear drops vs. a player who only wants them for refinement points.
If it actually worked as some have said, with gear specific to a certain class going first to the player who is actually running that class character it would be fine all around, but despite some people saying it is supposed to work that way, I know for a fact from my runs it doesn't always work out that way.
And the people who run through random content who don't bother to pick up anything still being rewarded by the "roll" with refinement gems and such while the players who actually take the time to pick up those items losing to them, that still just seems wrong on so many levels in my opinion.
I will continue to pick up drops I consider important to me and if it delays someone who ran ahead ignoring those drops I feel absolutely no sympathy, they can sort their inventory or shine their swords until I get there.
But it really burns me knowing a black pearl I took the effort to pick up went to someone who intentionally by-passed that item just to get to the next gate more quickly.
Good things happen to bad ppl. Bad things happen to good ppl. Life happens.
There are a lot of people who don't mind someone running ahead, soloing random content just following along moping up...
But then you have runs where there is a "new player in the party" and they are left to amble through the content wondering what generated that pile of stuff on the ground (or how the person so far ahead got there, without confronting the mob ahead of them).
Whenever the random flashes the "New Player" in instance I always try to allow them to lead, or take the lead myself at a speed they can manage. Stopping or slowing when they do, sticking with them to fight off mobs and sometimes inform them about potential shortcuts, possible tactics, and sometimes various not in plain sight areas of interest.
For me it isn't all about making as many AD's as possible, it's about trying to make as many better players as possible.
I always show the newbz the two extra chests in Cloak Tower. You would be amazed how many Lvl 70's say " I never new about that..."
Something I think deserves a bit of reconsideration are the allotment of items going to those players who just run by every drop, but when another party member tries to claim those items (refinement gems and professions drops in particular), sometimes wind up going into the inventory of those who passed them up and moved on.
Something should be done about that I think.
I don't think so. I play with my wife for an hour or 90 minutes every night. I largely ignore the stuff on the ground, unless I happen to hover over it while fighting. My wife mops up the rest of the dropped stuff. I get ahead and start the next fight, which leaves her to use shadow slip to catch up - which in turns boosts her recovery and power for a short time. When we're running random queues or pugging Castle Never, everyone seems to pay a varying amount of attention to the dropped stuff.
Personally, I'm glad that my threshold is ignored while I'm in random or pugged groups because I do want to roll on green stuff at that time. When it's just my wife and I running around together, then I don't want to roll on green. Her green stuff is hers, and mine is mine. If they fix the party threshold to honor my threshold, then I'll have to change it ... which I suppose isn't a huge deal, really.
I will continue to pick up drops I consider important to me and if it delays someone who ran ahead ignoring those drops I feel absolutely no sympathy, they can sort their inventory or shine their swords until I get there.
I don't mind the time you take to pick stuff up. I have not observed anyone in the groups I've been in who has complained about it at all. I look at this whole thing that we're doing complementary things within the group: If I'm getting to a fight before you, then you're able to join in and position yourself for maximum advantage when you arrive, which helps you. You're helping me by taking some time to pick things up, and I appreciate that you do that. For me, I find it terribly frustrating when you and I are both trying to pick up the same item and I hit "F" while you're accidentally targeted. So I like that there are fewer people trying to pick stuff up and yet all the stuff gets picked up.
I will continue to pick up drops I consider important to me and if it delays someone who ran ahead ignoring those drops I feel absolutely no sympathy, they can sort their inventory or shine their swords until I get there.
I don't mind the time you take to pick stuff up. I have not observed anyone in the groups I've been in who has complained about it at all. I look at this whole thing that we're doing complementary things within the group: If I'm getting to a fight before you, then you're able to join in and position yourself for maximum advantage when you arrive, which helps you. You're helping me by taking some time to pick things up, and I appreciate that you do that. For me, I find it terribly frustrating when you and I are both trying to pick up the same item and I hit "F" while you're accidentally targeted. So I like that there are fewer people trying to pick stuff up and yet all the stuff gets picked up.
Point well made about multiple people trying to pick up the same item and someone winds up targeting the other character, it is a bit frustrating, and upon further consideration, IMO the present drop/reward system is much better than the former, first come first served option given the different player movement speeds with the fastest players always getting the choicest drops, so despite my earlier objections I think I can live with how drops are handled presently.
His loot? So the one killing the mob, tanking or healing or buffing the group did not contribute? At all? I really dont care about the RP, but an argument could be made, that the player dealing the most dmg/ most dmg taken, healing or buffing most did contribute most to the run and as a result to the drops by mobs.
Following your argument, 'I picked it up, it is mine' I could claim, 'I killed it, it is mine' or even better 'I cleared the dungeon, so I deserve more RAD, more seals and more of anything, then the guy with 30k dmg dealt to his name and 0 dmg taken, who did spent his time in the dungeon collecting green loot'.
As I said, I dont care about the loot, but I dont like this feeling of entitlement some ppl have.
What's wrong with sharing loot? Answer: nobody wants to be a slave (picking up loot for others 80% of time).
So if a runner who cares about loot loots everything as he moves along, wouldn't that mean no loot at all for straggles?
Loot should be personal only, you shouldn't see my loot and I shouldn't see yours. If I take extra second to pick up that green item lying on the group then it should be mine.
Currently we have this: 1) most of the time when we pick up green items we don't receive them (which is dumb) 2) on top of that, quite often when you see green color on the ground the item is no longer there since someone has already picked it up (I mean the delay of that green color is confusing).
I used to play games where if you did most of the damage the items on the ground only appeared to you and no one else, maybe they could do that?
"Hey, you know the tank and healer who are the only reason you're alive to kill monsters? Who are causing you to do quintuple damage? They're not getting paid any more."
Runs are a team effort. Random roll is the fairest system. Having free-for-all looting or a scoring system discriminates against the new, slow, and less powerful players.
Runs are a team effort. Random roll is the fairest system.
Random roll is fair indeed, but current implementation of it is wrong. It should be rolled randomly and once rolled the item should drop for the one that has won it (other party members shouldn't see it). Then the player decides whether to pick it up or not (the same thing we do when soloing).
Random roll is fair indeed, but current implementation of it is wrong. It should be rolled randomly and once rolled the item should drop for the one that has won it (other party members shouldn't see it). Then the player decides whether to pick it up or not (the same thing we do when soloing).
Why so complicated? The only thing this system will ensure is that everyone have to pick up "his" loot. Those who don't care, their loot will go into the bit bucket where no one benefits. In the end, no one is better off, not even for people who pick up loot because they will still get only about 20% of them. All this so some people's feelings aren't hurt when they are forced to, gasp, share loot?
Runs are a team effort. Random roll is the fairest system.
Random roll is fair indeed, but current implementation of it is wrong. It should be rolled randomly and once rolled the item should drop for the one that has won it (other party members shouldn't see it). Then the player decides whether to pick it up or not (the same thing we do when soloing).
Terrible idea. No matter what you think of the current system, your suggestion would be worse. When I'm soloing (or duoing with my wife), then I have time to stop and pick stuff up off the ground. When I'm running a queue with a party, I like that I don't have to stop to pick stuff up because a couple of other people will. It lets us both get through the dungeon efficiently and ensures that everyone gets maximum loot. I really don't see what the problem people have with this system is. I mean, you're getting to roll on loot that used to drop only for other people and they're getting to roll on loot that used to drop only for you. Sure, you're subject to the vagaries of RNG, but you always were. There were times when I'd go through an entire dungeon and nothing of value would drop for me. Same thing has happened to my wife. Were you whinging then about how you weren't getting any loot in a dungeon every once in a while? I'm going to bet you weren't. So stop whinging about this system because it's no different when it comes to the odds of actually getting some dropped loot out of the dungeon.
Then the player decides whether to pick it up or not (the same thing we do when soloing).
Not exactly. Say you killed a mob and it drops something for another player. That player is across the room and killed a mob that dropped something for you. While both of you normally pick up loot, in this case, both of you don't think it is worth walking across the room for it. Now no one wins.
A run, or most task for that matter, is made more efficient by division of labor. Some smash and move on, some follow and grab, and some smash and grab at the same time. Every one scrambling for their loot slows things down.
Whether or not a player chooses to pick up random drops or not is an individual player's choice...
To reiterate, what I most strongly object to is drops going to players who obviously choose not to pick up drops for themselves, particularly those rewards which tend to be the best of the drops, like refining gems.
I've seen black pearls and other refining gems go to players who haven't bothered to pick up a single item for themselves for doing no more than what every other player in the party is doing, navigating the content to the best of their ability and battling mobs when they need to.
As I believe I already mentioned the current system is far superior to the one we had previously where it was the first person to pick attempt to pick up an item always got it, which was a terrible disadvantage to players who don't move as quickly or have the same attack power as other party members but that doesn't mean it can't stand for a little extra tweaking, especially where certain types of drops are concerned.
To reiterate, what I most strongly object to is drops going to players who obviously choose not to pick up drops for themselves, particularly those rewards which tend to be the best of the drops, like refining gems.
That might not be valid assumption. The guy in front might look like he is ignoring the loot because he figured chances are someone behind will pick them up. If it is free-for-all, then he may just pick them up for himself.
It isn't really hard to suspect a character is ignoring drops when they go through the entire content without slowing down (or doubling back if the occasion calls for it) to even look at anything, or they just run by mobs without even confronting them...
I realize not all drops are available or seen by all players in a party but even in this thread you have players who admit they don't take time to pick up drops because if another player does pick it up they may get it.
I just don't understand why they didn't even change loot drop rolling so that levelling players get more chance to obtain gear their level from rolls than lvl 70s they get pitted with in levelling dungeons. I think some bias in rolls with this respect would be more than welcome. They could also change loot roll settings for distinguishing between rolling for green/blue gear and RP items since most players seem to keep "green roll" settings only not to miss on black pearls and complaing about getting green gear from rolls.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
I just don't understand why they didn't even change loot drop rolling so that levelling players get more chance to obtain gear their level from rolls than lvl 70s they get pitted with in levelling dungeons. I think some bias in rolls with this respect would be more than welcome. They could also change loot roll settings for distinguishing between rolling for green/blue gear and RP items since most players seem to keep "green roll" settings only not to miss on black pearls and complaing about getting green gear from rolls.
Green gear is the equivalent of peridots. It all gets mulched.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
Yes, you can say peridots are equivalent to green gear, but in RP value only, since peridots don't require identification scrolls before being able to convert to RP and takes way less bag slots than green gear. Which is likely why people don't complain about peridots pickup (btw, I don't think those drop from mobs at all) while they do about green gear.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,152Arc User
When you have thousands of ID scrolls socked away, it's a non-issue.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
It isn't really hard to suspect a character is ignoring drops when they go through the entire content without slowing down (or doubling back if the occasion calls for it) to even look at anything, or they just run by mobs without even confronting them...
I realize not all drops are available or seen by all players in a party but even in this thread you have players who admit they don't take time to pick up drops because if another player does pick it up they may get it.
You don't know they aren't picking anything up. When I'm on my paladin, I look like I'm not picking anything up. The reality is that I am picking up whatever I can while I'm standing there fighting. I will also pick up stuff that I happen to run across after the battle is over. I don't tend to look behind me for stuff because I'm the tank and I like to get into the fight early to make sure others don't get killed right away and that everyone else can position themselves for maximum advantage and safety without having to worry about mobs aggroing on them. To that end, I've put a lot of work into my paladin's movement bonus, which is currently 8350 (almost 21%). Now, if you ever group with me and you prefer that I spend time after the fight looking for all the loot that dropped and making sure to pick it up, leaving you to be exposed to possible instant aggro at the next fight, then you be sure to let me know that and I'll be happy to let the mobs drop you at every fight first and then get aggro. K?
I just don't understand why they didn't even change loot drop rolling so that levelling players get more chance to obtain gear their level from rolls than lvl 70s they get pitted with in levelling dungeons. I think some bias in rolls with this respect would be more than welcome. They could also change loot roll settings for distinguishing between rolling for green/blue gear and RP items since most players seem to keep "green roll" settings only not to miss on black pearls and complaing about getting green gear from rolls.
This is a nice suggestion and, for me, would be a welcome change. I don't want gear that's under level 70. It's worth many fewer refinement points and not worth identifying, even though I'm sitting on 5k or more identification scrolls. When I run with characters who are not yet level 70, I check my loot after the run to see what's under level 70 and throw it away, then I identify the rest.
For anyone with VIP (and everyone should get VIP, it's the best use of a week's worth of AD in the game, and only takes a week's worth of AD to buy without spending any real money), ID scrolls are free and in effectively-unlimited supply. IDing all green gear in your inventory takes two clicks. Salvaging it takes three more.
Green gear is Peridots.
But I agree that in a level-mixed party, low-level items should always go to the low-level party members. They're likely to be able to use them, and they're not worth nearly as much RP.
It isn't really hard to suspect a character is ignoring drops when they go through the entire content without slowing down (or doubling back if the occasion calls for it) to even look at anything, or they just run by mobs without even confronting them...
If the system was changed to a free-for-all, then the economics change. Some people who ignore loot today will start picking them up because now because if others pick them up, they will not get them for sure.
People who run ahead of me and smash everything are doing more work than I am. I don't mind moping up the loot and sharing it with them.
As you say that works for you, but just as my opinion does not apply to everyone else in the game, that suggestion doesn't work for me or some other players I know...
When I choose to queue for a random run I do so because I want to participate in that content, not simply follow after another player and "mop up" after them, or ‘for them’ which I personally think to be more accurate.
Like just about everyone else in a party I appreciate it when other party members help in the fight against mobs and bosses, but I am not a big fan of following after someone who went ahead who killed everything and expects other party members just follow along and clean up after them… and to be quite honest sometimes I don’t, depending on who else is in the party and how they are playing.
So stop whinging about this system because it's no different when it comes to the odds of actually getting some dropped loot out of the dungeon.
It's not about the odds at all. It's about this: picking up loot for others (especially for those who don't pick up loot). In other words: I don't want to be a slave.
Comments
But then you have runs where there is a "new player in the party" and they are left to amble through the content wondering what generated that pile of stuff on the ground (or how the person so far ahead got there, without confronting the mob ahead of them).
Whenever the random flashes the "New Player" in instance I always try to allow them to lead, or take the lead myself at a speed they can manage. Stopping or slowing when they do, sticking with them to fight off mobs and sometimes inform them about potential shortcuts, possible tactics, and sometimes various not in plain sight areas of interest.
For me it isn't all about making as many AD's as possible, it's about trying to make as many better players as possible.
This wiki is out of date (it refers to the old Cloak Tower, not the Mod6+ one) but it has the gist right and the main difference is that Throg is not a "secret boss" any more.
https://neverwinter.gamepedia.com/The_Cloak_Tower#Chest_Quest
Personally, I'm glad that my threshold is ignored while I'm in random or pugged groups because I do want to roll on green stuff at that time. When it's just my wife and I running around together, then I don't want to roll on green. Her green stuff is hers, and mine is mine. If they fix the party threshold to honor my threshold, then I'll have to change it ... which I suppose isn't a huge deal, really.
Following your argument, 'I picked it up, it is mine' I could claim, 'I killed it, it is mine' or even better 'I cleared the dungeon, so I deserve more RAD, more seals and more of anything, then the guy with 30k dmg dealt to his name and 0 dmg taken, who did spent his time in the dungeon collecting green loot'.
As I said, I dont care about the loot, but I dont like this feeling of entitlement some ppl have.
If I take extra second to pick up that green item lying on the group then it should be mine.
Currently we have this:
1) most of the time when we pick up green items we don't receive them (which is dumb)
2) on top of that, quite often when you see green color on the ground the item is no longer there since someone has already picked it up (I mean the delay of that green color is confusing).
It should be rolled randomly and once rolled the item should drop for the one that has won it (other party members shouldn't see it). Then the player decides whether to pick it up or not (the same thing we do when soloing).
A run, or most task for that matter, is made more efficient by division of labor. Some smash and move on, some follow and grab, and some smash and grab at the same time. Every one scrambling for their loot slows things down.
To reiterate, what I most strongly object to is drops going to players who obviously choose not to pick up drops for themselves, particularly those rewards which tend to be the best of the drops, like refining gems.
I've seen black pearls and other refining gems go to players who haven't bothered to pick up a single item for themselves for doing no more than what every other player in the party is doing, navigating the content to the best of their ability and battling mobs when they need to.
As I believe I already mentioned the current system is far superior to the one we had previously where it was the first person to pick attempt to pick up an item always got it, which was a terrible disadvantage to players who don't move as quickly or have the same attack power as other party members but that doesn't mean it can't stand for a little extra tweaking, especially where certain types of drops are concerned.
My 2¢
I realize not all drops are available or seen by all players in a party but even in this thread you have players who admit they don't take time to pick up drops because if another player does pick it up they may get it.
They could also change loot roll settings for distinguishing between rolling for green/blue gear and RP items since most players seem to keep "green roll" settings only not to miss on black pearls and complaing about getting green gear from rolls.
Green gear is Peridots.
But I agree that in a level-mixed party, low-level items should always go to the low-level party members. They're likely to be able to use them, and they're not worth nearly as much RP.
When I choose to queue for a random run I do so because I want to participate in that content, not simply follow after another player and "mop up" after them, or ‘for them’ which I personally think to be more accurate.
Like just about everyone else in a party I appreciate it when other party members help in the fight against mobs and bosses, but I am not a big fan of following after someone who went ahead who killed everything and expects other party members just follow along and clean up after them… and to be quite honest sometimes I don’t, depending on who else is in the party and how they are playing.
Different play styles for sure.
It's about this: picking up loot for others (especially for those who don't pick up loot).
In other words: I don't want to be a slave.