> @noworries#8859 said: > The Zen store does need improvements, however in regards to this topic that doesn't actually help. The more desirable the items in the Zen store are, the worse the Zax trade imbalance gets. Currently on PC there are far more players wanting Zen then are wanting AD, which causes the high backlog. The better the Zen store gets, the more players want Zen, the worse the backlog gets. Improving the Zen store does not improve the value of AD or help the backlog. > > There is a lot of focus on my comments on the ZAX, however I mentioned that as the easiest indicator of the value of AD. The overall goal is to improve the value of AD, improving the ZAX is also important and happens as the value of AD increases, but overall the focus is reducing inflation and increasing the value of AD as a whole. > > More AD is created than is destroyed, everyone agrees on that point. On the surface it would seem natural to simply create more sinks to remove more AD, and we have started doing that and have more planned for future modules as well. However, the rate of incoming AD would require massive sinks all over the game for all players to have any chance of bringing the AD incoming/outgoing rates into balance. > > Over the last 2 years on PC, the net amount of refined AD in the game (all characters of all players) has increased 75%. The overall AD in the game has been increasing at a good pace since the game launched, and this is true of all platforms. Some transmute and other sinks added aren't going to be able to curb that alone. I won't go into too much detail on the numbers, but on average players as a whole, just on PC, are generating 1 billion brand new refined AD every 3 days. Each console on average is 4 days to generate 1 billion AD. That number already factors in all of the AD spent during that time as well. This is why there needs to be better generation limits in conjunction with AD sinks.
Or you raise the value of zen by permanently discounting the real money cost by a 10-20% amount. While also putting a bit more effort to adding items to the zen shop that people actually want, i.e. unbinder to move stuff between alts, relevant companions to end game characters, mounts with unique equip bonuses.
You don't have to punish your most active players to reach your intended goal. For me the swap from cw to hr has re-invigorated the passion I have for this game, maybe it's about time to make less barriers to do this.
I hate to have to point this out, but you won't get salvageable items from sub-70 dungeons. I'm not sure why you think people will. I've never seen any salvageable gear drop from any non-epic dungeon no matter what level it is.
You get salvage from random leveling dungeon indirectly with seals. 60 seal of the brave is pretty good for one leveling dungeon run. Five days worth of leveling dungeon gets you one primal ring. A week of leveling dungeons gets you one piece of primal armor. Under two weeks of leveling dungeons gets you one primal artifact weapons. A total scrub and be completely decked out in primal gear in nine weeks running random leveling dungeons.
Wait... there is more! After getting a few primal pieces, they have enough iLevel to go into the intermediate queue and get carried for more AD and seals. They can get completely geared up sooner.
I hadn't had time yet to check out these changes. I forgot about the rings that you can already buy with Seals of the Protector. I was thinking more along the lines of actual drops in the dungeons (obviously). I appreciate the information about how many Seals of the Brave you get and what things cost. I was thinking about buying the Primal artifact weapon packs in the Zen store when things go on sale during the Jubilee. Now I'll just wait for this update to drop. (To be fair, I already have fully upgraded Chult artifact weapons on the characters I play the most.)
Anyway, thanks for the information download! I appreciate it.
I was wondering, over the last 2 months before they reduced the chance of getting 30k rADs with exp rewards, how destroying this "mistake" has been for the economy. I personally can say that over 10 toons getting several exp rewards a day i was largely getting 360k rADs every other day if not more >.< I do hope your monitoring of ADs production was made before this 2 months of gaining those exp rewards.
Of course at that time we were all very happy about this, but thinking about it now and with the upcoming change, it made me wondering, simply.
tigernuno 4:29PM "Those of us who grind several toons through dungeons each day, don’t do it for fun."
See this is where you got it wrong. A GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. That's the whole point. You just admitted you play not for fun, you play cuz it's your job, it's a chore. That's when you should move on and find a new game where you actually have fun. I'm loving to see all the hardcore elitists cry lol. The truth hurt doesn't it? What goes around comes around. All the toxicity spread by elitists over the years is finally catching up to them, they get what they deserve, love it!
You are right. But in order to have fun, I require AD to upgrade my character.
I love these types of games due to the virtual achievements I reap when I see progression on my character.
So while I may not find it fun to grind the AD, it's still something I do in order to have the fun. If that makes sense.
Also, this change doesn't change that. It just makes it harder to progress, thus harder / take longer for me to upgrade my character and yield that feeling of fun I get once I see progress.
A better move by their part would be to take the money generation out of dungeons and integrate them into other tasks. Such as x amount of AD per first Stronghold Heroic completed. X amount of AD per first hunt done, etc.
Also, I am by no means elitist. I even play in a none elitist alliance in order to avoid this type of behavior. I don't like players being excluded, and have found a place where people are like minded.
My reason for writing my posts on here, is based on hope of them changing something into the better. And the biggest reason for my frustration is the fact that this game has an incredible potential, if only the company behind it would back the game with money and a bigger team.
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
edited May 2018
Setting the RAD cap to 100k will rise another problem:
How the hell can a new player who plays the game more than a casual one, can hope to get along with the old endgame players?
AD will take more value because less will be generated by the 3%, 5% whatever let's call them the I-understood-how-the-game-work. AH prices will increase because the rich which had AD will still have it, but the poor won't be able to buy from AH, they will suffer the most.
The rich will stay rich, but the poor won't stay poor, they will become poorest. Good luck to them.
Let me remind you of something, the DUNGEON-KEY-GATE: Isn't it pityfull than after grinding a dungeon, the rewards are so unrewarding that you prefer to NOT open the chest ? "Congrats everyone, we killed this dragon and get 1 Rank 5 enchant and some salvage ! Yeaaaah...wait what?"
I think this game isn't still properly rewarding players, or should I say reward them with totally outdated rewards (Yes, I'm looking at you skirmish events !).
You still force players to retain everything.. Whatever chest with a possibility to drop enchants => Wait double enchants Whatever chest with a possibility to drop PS => Wait double enchants Whatever chest with guild shard => wait double shard Overflow XP reward => wait double enchants Guil map for mastercraft => wait double profession
Need to buy something from zen market => wait for -15% or -40% from jubilee, winter, or black friday Need to buy something from WB => wait for reduction Need to buy something from Tarmalune=> wait for reduction
It's simple, you wait the correct time, you gain double or spend the half. It's plain stupid to not wait, or you just don't want to ensure sustainability for your character, or you're just so rich you don't care anymore.
The ZAX rising spike is because of the jubilee ( and the removing of arc quest).
Players are not stupid. Mots of the zen object are outdated, players only trade AD for ZEN to get Coalescent or wards to sell them at AH and still make more AD, because as they are not stupid, they buy and sell at the right moment.
So setting the RAD cap to 100K ? It's half of the solution and far too late, as every decision you took regarding the economy.
My solution ? A serious rework for dungeon rewards, zen market objects, WR is a start. But ask players before any rework like this, we want you to earn money so neverwinter has good futur modules, but we don't want to be considered as stupid. Plus we have many players which we play each day and can give you some hint to tweak the game.
If 100K per account is legitimately an accepted amount NW welcomes players to earn then make that 100K earnable without having to be a high level toon running through endless epic dungeons. Code it so running this is achievable via regular content at all levels and without having to make NW a full time job. Otherwise we see past the 100K deception and loyalty fades fast when customers are deceived to their face. You insult yourself for reflecting your own lack of self respect onto your players that aren't snot nosed delingquents, well, for the most part
And if you want to kill some reach whales in the proces – do that stright after jubilee. When they spend their stashed ZEN to buy wards to resell them in a few months with lot of profit. But of course make a new price on Woundrous Bazar lot lower then it is now on ZEN store
Players gona love you for that, and those few hurt whales... well they dont buy ZEN from you for real cash anyway so....
And of course rework ZEN store – influx of a fresh stuff always encourge peoples – like all old skins for example:D – BtA of course – not to resell , and some „Gift for friend” program would be welcomed as well.
Really @devs you got tons of smart comments here on the table made by very differnt players. Use some of them. You really hate this game or players so much that you need to keep choosing wrong decisions every time?
Not sure how you think this actually hurts the so-called "whales"....
The whales are whales because they adapt to whatever the market gives them. Reducing the relative value of an item isn't going to hurt the "whales" because the value doesn't go to zero; a "whale" will simply cut their losses on an item and move on to the next thing and continue to make a profit.
The only people this really hurts are the average players who actually paid cash for zen as the value of their purchase is diminished--and in all likelihood, that net decrease in value is a higher percentage of their "net worth" than it is for the so-called "whale."
I also don't think you really understand how many of the "whales" work; they are actually really very good for the average player by keeping market prices lower. You mistakenly believe that "whales" simply buy and hold and wait for the market to inflate. And while some players may do that, the savvy investor understands that the real power for making profit in Neverwinter is speed. The reason why speed is important is due to compound interest. It is more profitable to flip items five times for 10% profit each time than it is to flip an item once for 50% profit. Say, for instance, an item costs 100,000AD and I hold it and flip it for a 50% profit three months out, I wind up with 150,000AD; not only is my potential AD tied up during that time preventing me from other opportunities that might be more lucrative, but I can make more profit overall if I settle for less of a return on each flip, say 10%, but over the course of that three months I can make a 10% profit 5 times. I wind up with 161,051AD which is over 7% more AD.
Understanding that speed is the real key to profit in Neverwinter, the whales need to move in and out of positions quickly. To do that, you don't price the items you sell at the highest value on the AH, on the contrary, you price them at the lowest.
So as you can see, the people you are accusing of manipulating and inflating the market, are, in fact, the ones who are actually reigning in inflation for the average player.
Some of the more aggressive traders settle for 1-2% margins. That may not sound like a lot, but if you can compound that on a daily basis, you wind up with a ton of profit over time. Take that example of 100,000AD initial investment and compound that daily at 1% over the course of a year. At the end of the year, that player will wind up with 3,778,343AD. That is a 30 fold increase in AD. They do that not by being the most expensive, but by being the most affordable.....
You still force players to retain everything.. Whatever chest with a possibility to drop enchants => Wait double enchants Whatever chest with a possibility to drop PS => Wait double enchants Whatever chest with guild shard => wait double shard Overflow XP reward => wait double enchants Guil map for mastercraft => wait double profession
Need to buy something from zen market => wait for -15% or -40% from jubilee, winter, or black friday Need to buy something from WB => wait for reduction Need to buy something from Tarmalune=> wait for reduction
It's simple, you wait the correct time, you gain double or spend the half. It's plain stupid to not wait, or you just don't want to ensure sustainability for your character, or you're just so rich you don't care anymore.
Well, let's be honest: We are not forced to store all that stuff. We can open it any time we choose to open it. It's simply human nature to behave this way when the rewards are predictably doubled. The "pain" or "loss" of storing it until it's doubled is minimal to non-existent. Since that is true and since we know that at some relatively predictable future time the rewards are doubled, we choose to store those rewards and take them later. It's a form of FOMO (Fear Of Missing Out) and it also happens to dovetail nicely with our desire to min-max.
I'll grant that this behaviour is entirely predictable on the part of the developers. However, that still doesn't mean that the fact we do this is their fault. If they offered a doubling event even once a year, we would still store it; we'd complain that the doubling events don't happen more often, but we would still save up for it. So you simply cannot lay this at the developers' feet. Really, you can't.
An actual AD sink that most will probably agree on would be allowing Hunt items, trophies and lures, to be sold on the auction house.
People can still do direct trade, but I'm sure a lot of people would opt for the AH, adding a good amount of AH trade which in turn is an extra ad sink.
More ad sinks can be made for sure, but the ward for ad idea is one they probably won't go for, since that's probably the most bought zen item currently, and adding them to bazaar would likely hurt their sales. If they go for it though, they will most likely make it cost more through ad than if bought with zen to diminish the impact on purchases made with zen.
An actual AD sink that most will probably agree on would be allowing Hunt items, trophies and lures, to be sold on the auction house.
People can still do direct trade, but I'm sure a lot of people would opt for the AH, adding a good amount of AH trade which in turn is an extra ad sink.
More ad sinks can be made for sure, but the ward for ad idea is one they probably won't go for, since that's probably the most bought zen item currently, and adding them to bazaar would likely hurt their sales. If they go for it though, they will most likely make it cost more through ad than if bought with zen to diminish the impact on purchases made with zen.
This wouldn't be a sink.
A sink is something that "destroys" and removes the AD from the virtual world of Neverwinter. By trading them on the Trade House the AD simply changes hands.
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tassedethe13Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 806Arc User
That's true, nothing forces us to store. The impact is pretty inexistent for a few chest, but when you have lots of chest I can assure you that you store and wait.
The thing I wanted to show was the following:
If you understand the game cycle you can basicly double your wealth, and that's far more dangerous than making more than 100K AD/day.
You think on the long term and decide to keep chest and open only when double, you manage to get let's say 20M. Now you convert it to ZEN, you will have 40 000 ZEN, and can buy 66 coalescent at -40% jubilee. Wait November before black friday when ZAX is same than today and sell this 66 coalescent at 555K555 each one, and get 555K555 * 66 * 0,9 = 33M Benefit 13M.
If you make 100K a day during 6 months, you will have 180*100k = 18MK
By doing nothing than buying and selling, you earned almost the same amount than 1 active player ( if you still open at double and sells, you can close the 5m difference) Now imagine you are doing this for 5 years, plus you are an active player ! Imagine how much AD you have now.
I advice you to use two simple tools to determine the factor of ZAX overflow :
Ishikawa diagram used in industry to resolve complex system failure
5W or 5 Why developped by Taiichi OHNO used to determine primal cause of a problem
These tools are used to optimize car manufacturing companies, but it's usefull in informatic project managing as I use them. Maybe using these you should find another conclusion to your problem of ZAX.
Believe me, I fully understand how it can add up in your inventory! LOL. I'm currently storing a stack of each of the five bags you get from QM enchantments, Coffers of Celestial Artifacts, Steward's Incentives, Chultan Treasures (the treasure boxes from the maps), Hidden Treasures (the treasure boxes from SoMI maps), and something else. Plus, I haven't taken my experience awards since the last double refining stone weekend (back in March?). I'm beyond anxious for next weekend when I can open all that stuff!
As for how much wealth it will create ... for me, not very much. I'll be using every last thing that can be converted to RP in order to refine enchantments (on my main) or artifacts and artifact gear (on my two semi-regularly played non-main characters). That said, if I didn't need that stuff for refining, it would probably fetch me quite a bit on the AH. Though I have to admit that I wouldn't be sitting on it until the end of the year; I'd be selling it on the AH as fast as possible. I simply don't have the bank space/inventory space to sit on all that stuff for 6 months.
An actual AD sink that most will probably agree on would be allowing Hunt items, trophies and lures, to be sold on the auction house.
People can still do direct trade, but I'm sure a lot of people would opt for the AH, adding a good amount of AH trade which in turn is an extra ad sink.
More ad sinks can be made for sure, but the ward for ad idea is one they probably won't go for, since that's probably the most bought zen item currently, and adding them to bazaar would likely hurt their sales. If they go for it though, they will most likely make it cost more through ad than if bought with zen to diminish the impact on purchases made with zen.
This wouldn't be a sink.
A sink is something that "destroys" and removes the AD from the virtual world of Neverwinter. By trading them on the Trade House the AD simply changes hands.
Yes, and no, as always with the AH. AH is a "little" sink because 10% is always destroyed. Relative to the amount of goods bought each day on AH this sink is I guess still better than kits crafted items.
Edit: or not, in my confusion i confused myself with my own thoughts ^^
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,403Arc User
An actual AD sink that most will probably agree on would be allowing Hunt items, trophies and lures, to be sold on the auction house.
People can still do direct trade, but I'm sure a lot of people would opt for the AH, adding a good amount of AH trade which in turn is an extra ad sink.
More ad sinks can be made for sure, but the ward for ad idea is one they probably won't go for, since that's probably the most bought zen item currently, and adding them to bazaar would likely hurt their sales. If they go for it though, they will most likely make it cost more through ad than if bought with zen to diminish the impact on purchases made with zen.
This wouldn't be a sink.
A sink is something that "destroys" and removes the AD from the virtual world of Neverwinter. By trading them on the Trade House the AD simply changes hands.
Yes, and no, as always with the AH. AH is a "little" sink because 10% is always destroyed. Relative to the amount of goods bought each day on AH this sink is I guess still better than kits crafted items.
Edit: or not, in my confusion i confused myself with my own thoughts ^^
The current lure trade is using GMOP, SMOP as currency. A VIP 12 player will always buy GMOP, SMOP from WB instead of AH. Even one buy GMOP, SMOP from AH instead of WB. There is a 10% AD sink. The GMOP, SMOP that are being sold in AH can also be originated from WB. Every purchase in WB is an AD sink.
Current lure trade as a side effect actually gives a pretty good AD sink and it is a better AD sink than trading lure in AH directly.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Add an AD purchase option to every one time purchase (Wards, companions, consumables, etc) with a bias point of 400*(Zen cost of item), making it cheaper to buy the item with AD (thus removing the AD from the economy) when the ADX is high, and better to buy with Zen when the ADX is lower (encouraging players who can afford to spend the money to purchase Zen for cash). Could be a slightly higher bias point (450, etc).
Reinstate the 10% Posting fee in the Auction House (would need to compensate VIP holders for this change). Right now we can just post whatever we want at any price point we want, flooding the market and devaluing everything across the board.
Add another key to VIP, and increase the value of the lockbox drops - The best AD sink we currently have is the 10% lost in an auction house purchase. Unfortunately most drops from lockboxes and dungeons/skirmishes that can be sold sell for HAMSTER.
Unbind all drops, make Bind on Equip. Again, we don't have enough items of value to sell, so the AH AD sink is largely wasted.
Add Hunt Lures and DROPS to the Auction House - Allowing us to sell those drops would drive a huge chunk of AD out of the economy and make Hunts more rewarding, increasing participation.
Most large value items are traded for SMOPs/UMOPs to avoid the auction house cut. I'm not sure what the solution is here, since we need to be able to trade with friends, but this is a problem for AD sinks and might need to be addressed if the other suggestions don't fix the problem.
Lower the ridiculous prices in the Wondrous Bazaar. Aside from the MOPs, I don't know of anyone who buys anything from the WB because the prices are far too high. An AD sink doesn't work if no one wants to buy it.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,403Arc User
Add an AD purchase option to every one time purchase (Wards, companions, consumables, etc) with a bias point of 400*(Zen cost of item), making it cheaper to buy the item with AD (thus removing the AD from the economy) when the ADX is high, and better to buy with Zen when the ADX is lower (encouraging players who can afford to spend the money to purchase Zen for cash). Could be a slightly higher bias point (450, etc).
Reinstate the 10% Posting fee in the Auction House (would need to compensate VIP holders for this change). Right now we can just post whatever we want at any price point we want, flooding the market and devaluing everything across the board.
Add another key to VIP, and increase the value of the lockbox drops - The best AD sink we currently have is the 10% lost in an auction house purchase. Unfortunately most drops from lockboxes and dungeons/skirmishes that can be sold sell for HAMSTER.
Unbind all drops, make Bind on Equip. Again, we don't have enough items of value to sell, so the AH AD sink is largely wasted.
Add Hunt Lures and DROPS to the Auction House - Allowing us to sell those drops would drive a huge chunk of AD out of the economy and make Hunts more rewarding, increasing participation.
Most large value items are traded for SMOPs/UMOPs to avoid the auction house cut. I'm not sure what the solution is here, since we need to be able to trade with friends, but this is a problem for AD sinks and might need to be addressed if the other suggestions don't fix the problem.
Lower the ridiculous prices in the Wondrous Bazaar. Aside from the MOPs, I don't know of anyone who buys anything from the WB because the prices are far too high. An AD sink doesn't work if no one wants to buy it.
The AH posting fee is NOT 10% unless you mean you want to increase the current AH posting fee. The transaction fee is 10%.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
If 100K per account is legitimately an accepted amount NW welcomes players to earn then make that 100K earnable without having to be a high level toon running through endless epic dungeons. Code it so running this is achievable via regular content at all levels and without having to make NW a full time job.
I see the 100K cap as less of an invitation, and more of a wall -a wall with a big moat around it - full of acid; and before the moat a field of landmines and covered pits filled with pointy sticks.
The AH posting fee is NOT 10% unless you mean you want to increase the current AH posting fee. The transaction fee is 10%.
Great, don't remember what % it is, care to put a number on it so I can update it?
Would also be ok with a 10% increase to match the selling fee. That way, no matter if the item sells or not, the AD sink works. Doesn't hurt sellers who already price reasonably, since it is returned when the item sells, and encourages lower numbers for sale, increasing the value of the goods sold and the amount cut out by the sink.
Okay so costs will go down on the auction house over time, but so will the amount of ad you have, so all that will really change is the amount of AD out there. Nothing really changes besides taking away from the people who spent money on zen for those extra character slots.
If 100K per account is legitimately an accepted amount NW welcomes players to earn then make that 100K earnable without having to be a high level toon running through endless epic dungeons. Code it so running this is achievable via regular content at all levels and without having to make NW a full time job.
I see the 100K cap as less of an invitation, and more of a wall -a wall with a big moat around it - full of acid; and before the moat a field of landmines and covered pits filled with pointy sticks.
I get what you mean and I agree, they most definitely do not want players reaching 100k / day...or probably anywhere near.
Its like the car rental company telling you, you have 100k free KMs for the next 25 mins and you can go ahead and rent many more vehicles to drive under that deal!; sounds great! and during the nanosecond b4 you realize how ridiculous that is, you hear the staff already in full laughter --at you
We can all be most sure that both the AD and Zen issues in this game are the most talked about and discussed things about this game at Cryptic. Why because they are a bussiness and money is always number 1 on any companies mind. I expect them to make this change as it is stated. Then they shall watch and adjust as needed moving forward. As long as they do not shoot themself in the foot and all of us along with it .Well that is another matter. Giving out ideas is a good thing but do not expect them to react until they have all the data back to support that idea that makes them more money. Good day.
The AH posting fee is NOT 10% unless you mean you want to increase the current AH posting fee. The transaction fee is 10%.
Great, don't remember what % it is, care to put a number on it so I can update it?
Would also be ok with a 10% increase to match the selling fee. That way, no matter if the item sells or not, the AD sink works. Doesn't hurt sellers who already price reasonably, since it is returned when the item sells, and encourages lower numbers for sale, increasing the value of the goods sold and the amount cut out by the sink.
If you reinstate a posting fee for VIP, I would just stop using the AH altogether as would most people. I really don't need to use the AH as it is since I can trade for just about anything I want with another player without either a posting fee or AH cut upon sale.
The only real reason to use the AH now is to convert in-game items into AD that can be used to purchase Zen to purchase things in the Zen store. After this Jubilee sale, I will have anything and everything I want from the Zen store so there is no loss to me at all.
There is already a secondary market that is alive and well that bypasses the AH altogether with its own meta-currency. If we were to compare it to real world currency, P-Wards are like pennies, gmops are nickels, smops are dimes, Umops are quarters, UES are dollars, and C-wards are like five dollar bills. You can pretty much get really even trades for any item in the game if you have a consistent exchange rate (which PC does thanks to the 500:1 AD/Zen on the Zax). All you have to do is look at the AH to see what the going market rate is for an item (which will fluctuate due to supply and demand) and adjust from there.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,403Arc User
The AH posting fee is NOT 10% unless you mean you want to increase the current AH posting fee. The transaction fee is 10%.
Great, don't remember what % it is, care to put a number on it so I can update it?
Would also be ok with a 10% increase to match the selling fee. That way, no matter if the item sells or not, the AD sink works. Doesn't hurt sellers who already price reasonably, since it is returned when the item sells, and encourages lower numbers for sale, increasing the value of the goods sold and the amount cut out by the sink.
I don't know what it is and I don't even think it is a set percentage. Anyway, I am not sure removing posting fee has positive impact to AD sink. If removing posting fee means lowering price in AH, it means smaller AD sink for a successful transaction. i.e. for an item that was 1 million AD, it would destroy 100K AD. Now, if the item becomes 800K AD, it would destroy 80K AD.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
An actual AD sink that most will probably agree on would be allowing Hunt items, trophies and lures, to be sold on the auction house.
People can still do direct trade, but I'm sure a lot of people would opt for the AH, adding a good amount of AH trade which in turn is an extra ad sink.
More ad sinks can be made for sure, but the ward for ad idea is one they probably won't go for, since that's probably the most bought zen item currently, and adding them to bazaar would likely hurt their sales. If they go for it though, they will most likely make it cost more through ad than if bought with zen to diminish the impact on purchases made with zen.
and with the drop rates what they are I don't think it would be the massive devaluation they claim it would be. it may look like it at first glance but what people are asking for in chat is not what things go for. and god help me but I sincerely hate hawking my goods in chat like a goober. it is not fun and enjoyable. I do it.. but I HATE it. I mean look at the maps in stormking. they held value where they should be and are still not going for pennies. they are cheap compared to what they were but they did hold value.
and god help me but I sincerely hate hawking my goods in alliance chat like a goober. it is not fun and enjoyable. I do it.. but I HATE it.
You might try activating the "Trade" channel in your default chat tab or have a dedicated chat tab for the "Trade" channel; folks in there are purposely wheelin' and dealin'.....
An actual AD sink that most will probably agree on would be allowing Hunt items, trophies and lures, to be sold on the auction house.
People can still do direct trade, but I'm sure a lot of people would opt for the AH, adding a good amount of AH trade which in turn is an extra ad sink.
More ad sinks can be made for sure, but the ward for ad idea is one they probably won't go for, since that's probably the most bought zen item currently, and adding them to bazaar would likely hurt their sales. If they go for it though, they will most likely make it cost more through ad than if bought with zen to diminish the impact on purchases made with zen.
and with the drop rates what they are I don't think it would be the massive devaluation they claim it would be. it may look like it at first glance but what people are asking for in chat is not what things go for. and god help me but I sincerely hate hawking my goods in alliance chat like a goober. it is not fun and enjoyable. I do it.. but I HATE it. I mean look at the maps in stormking. they held value where they should be and are still not going for pennies. they are cheap compared to what they were but they did hold value.
I want your 16.7 combat HR...just saying ...siggghhhh
Comments
> The Zen store does need improvements, however in regards to this topic that doesn't actually help. The more desirable the items in the Zen store are, the worse the Zax trade imbalance gets. Currently on PC there are far more players wanting Zen then are wanting AD, which causes the high backlog. The better the Zen store gets, the more players want Zen, the worse the backlog gets. Improving the Zen store does not improve the value of AD or help the backlog.
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> There is a lot of focus on my comments on the ZAX, however I mentioned that as the easiest indicator of the value of AD. The overall goal is to improve the value of AD, improving the ZAX is also important and happens as the value of AD increases, but overall the focus is reducing inflation and increasing the value of AD as a whole.
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> More AD is created than is destroyed, everyone agrees on that point. On the surface it would seem natural to simply create more sinks to remove more AD, and we have started doing that and have more planned for future modules as well. However, the rate of incoming AD would require massive sinks all over the game for all players to have any chance of bringing the AD incoming/outgoing rates into balance.
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> Over the last 2 years on PC, the net amount of refined AD in the game (all characters of all players) has increased 75%. The overall AD in the game has been increasing at a good pace since the game launched, and this is true of all platforms. Some transmute and other sinks added aren't going to be able to curb that alone. I won't go into too much detail on the numbers, but on average players as a whole, just on PC, are generating 1 billion brand new refined AD every 3 days. Each console on average is 4 days to generate 1 billion AD. That number already factors in all of the AD spent during that time as well. This is why there needs to be better generation limits in conjunction with AD sinks.
Or you raise the value of zen by permanently discounting the real money cost by a 10-20% amount. While also putting a bit more effort to adding items to the zen shop that people actually want, i.e. unbinder to move stuff between alts, relevant companions to end game characters, mounts with unique equip bonuses.
You don't have to punish your most active players to reach your intended goal. For me the swap from cw to hr has re-invigorated the passion I have for this game, maybe it's about time to make less barriers to do this.
Anyway, thanks for the information download! I appreciate it.
I do hope your monitoring of ADs production was made before this 2 months of gaining those exp rewards.
Of course at that time we were all very happy about this, but thinking about it now and with the upcoming change, it made me wondering, simply.
"Those of us who grind several toons through dungeons each day, don’t do it for fun."
See this is where you got it wrong. A GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE FUN. That's the whole point. You just admitted you play not for fun, you play cuz it's your job, it's a chore. That's when you should move on and find a new game where you actually have fun. I'm loving to see all the hardcore elitists cry lol. The truth hurt doesn't it? What goes around comes around. All the toxicity spread by elitists over the years is finally catching up to them, they get what they deserve, love it!
@tigernuno
You are right. But in order to have fun, I require AD to upgrade my character.
I love these types of games due to the virtual achievements I reap when I see progression on my character.
So while I may not find it fun to grind the AD, it's still something I do in order to have the fun. If that makes sense.
Also, this change doesn't change that. It just makes it harder to progress, thus harder / take longer for me to upgrade my character and yield that feeling of fun I get once I see progress.
A better move by their part would be to take the money generation out of dungeons and integrate them into other tasks. Such as x amount of AD per first Stronghold Heroic completed. X amount of AD per first hunt done, etc.
Also, I am by no means elitist. I even play in a none elitist alliance in order to avoid this type of behavior. I don't like players being excluded, and have found a place where people are like minded.
My reason for writing my posts on here, is based on hope of them changing something into the better. And the biggest reason for my frustration is the fact that this game has an incredible potential, if only the company behind it would back the game with money and a bigger team.
How the hell can a new player who plays the game more than a casual one, can hope to get along with the old endgame players?
AD will take more value because less will be generated by the 3%, 5% whatever let's call them the I-understood-how-the-game-work. AH prices will increase because the rich which had AD will still have it, but the poor won't be able to buy from AH, they will suffer the most.
The rich will stay rich, but the poor won't stay poor, they will become poorest. Good luck to them.
Let me remind you of something, the DUNGEON-KEY-GATE:
Isn't it pityfull than after grinding a dungeon, the rewards are so unrewarding that you prefer to NOT open the chest ?
"Congrats everyone, we killed this dragon and get 1 Rank 5 enchant and some salvage ! Yeaaaah...wait what?"
I think this game isn't still properly rewarding players, or should I say reward them with totally outdated rewards (Yes, I'm looking at you skirmish events !).
You still force players to retain everything..
Whatever chest with a possibility to drop enchants => Wait double enchants
Whatever chest with a possibility to drop PS => Wait double enchants
Whatever chest with guild shard => wait double shard
Overflow XP reward => wait double enchants
Guil map for mastercraft => wait double profession
Need to buy something from zen market => wait for -15% or -40% from jubilee, winter, or black friday
Need to buy something from WB => wait for reduction
Need to buy something from Tarmalune=> wait for reduction
It's simple, you wait the correct time, you gain double or spend the half. It's plain stupid to not wait, or you just don't want to ensure sustainability for your character, or you're just so rich you don't care anymore.
The ZAX rising spike is because of the jubilee ( and the removing of arc quest).
Players are not stupid. Mots of the zen object are outdated, players only trade AD for ZEN to get Coalescent or wards to sell them at AH and still make more AD, because as they are not stupid, they buy and sell at the right moment.
So setting the RAD cap to 100K ? It's half of the solution and far too late, as every decision you took regarding the economy.
My solution ? A serious rework for dungeon rewards, zen market objects, WR is a start.
But ask players before any rework like this, we want you to earn money so neverwinter has good futur modules, but we don't want to be considered as stupid. Plus we have many players which we play each day and can give you some hint to tweak the game.
Otherwise we see past the 100K deception and loyalty fades fast when customers are deceived to their face. You insult yourself for reflecting your own lack of self respect onto your players that aren't snot nosed delingquents, well, for the most part
The whales are whales because they adapt to whatever the market gives them. Reducing the relative value of an item isn't going to hurt the "whales" because the value doesn't go to zero; a "whale" will simply cut their losses on an item and move on to the next thing and continue to make a profit.
The only people this really hurts are the average players who actually paid cash for zen as the value of their purchase is diminished--and in all likelihood, that net decrease in value is a higher percentage of their "net worth" than it is for the so-called "whale."
I also don't think you really understand how many of the "whales" work; they are actually really very good for the average player by keeping market prices lower. You mistakenly believe that "whales" simply buy and hold and wait for the market to inflate. And while some players may do that, the savvy investor understands that the real power for making profit in Neverwinter is speed. The reason why speed is important is due to compound interest. It is more profitable to flip items five times for 10% profit each time than it is to flip an item once for 50% profit. Say, for instance, an item costs 100,000AD and I hold it and flip it for a 50% profit three months out, I wind up with 150,000AD; not only is my potential AD tied up during that time preventing me from other opportunities that might be more lucrative, but I can make more profit overall if I settle for less of a return on each flip, say 10%, but over the course of that three months I can make a 10% profit 5 times. I wind up with 161,051AD which is over 7% more AD.
Understanding that speed is the real key to profit in Neverwinter, the whales need to move in and out of positions quickly. To do that, you don't price the items you sell at the highest value on the AH, on the contrary, you price them at the lowest.
So as you can see, the people you are accusing of manipulating and inflating the market, are, in fact, the ones who are actually reigning in inflation for the average player.
Some of the more aggressive traders settle for 1-2% margins. That may not sound like a lot, but if you can compound that on a daily basis, you wind up with a ton of profit over time. Take that example of 100,000AD initial investment and compound that daily at 1% over the course of a year. At the end of the year, that player will wind up with 3,778,343AD. That is a 30 fold increase in AD. They do that not by being the most expensive, but by being the most affordable.....
I'll grant that this behaviour is entirely predictable on the part of the developers. However, that still doesn't mean that the fact we do this is their fault. If they offered a doubling event even once a year, we would still store it; we'd complain that the doubling events don't happen more often, but we would still save up for it. So you simply cannot lay this at the developers' feet. Really, you can't.
An actual AD sink that most will probably agree on would be allowing Hunt items, trophies and lures, to be sold on the auction house.
People can still do direct trade, but I'm sure a lot of people would opt for the AH, adding a good amount of AH trade which in turn is an extra ad sink.
More ad sinks can be made for sure, but the ward for ad idea is one they probably won't go for, since that's probably the most bought zen item currently, and adding them to bazaar would likely hurt their sales. If they go for it though, they will most likely make it cost more through ad than if bought with zen to diminish the impact on purchases made with zen.
A sink is something that "destroys" and removes the AD from the virtual world of Neverwinter. By trading them on the Trade House the AD simply changes hands.
That's true, nothing forces us to store. The impact is pretty inexistent for a few chest, but when you have lots of chest I can assure you that you store and wait.
The thing I wanted to show was the following:
If you understand the game cycle you can basicly double your wealth, and that's far more dangerous than making more than 100K AD/day.
You think on the long term and decide to keep chest and open only when double, you manage to get let's say 20M.
Now you convert it to ZEN, you will have 40 000 ZEN, and can buy 66 coalescent at -40% jubilee. Wait November before black friday when ZAX is same than today and sell this 66 coalescent at 555K555 each one, and get 555K555 * 66 * 0,9 = 33M
Benefit 13M.
If you make 100K a day during 6 months, you will have 180*100k = 18MK
By doing nothing than buying and selling, you earned almost the same amount than 1 active player ( if you still open at double and sells, you can close the 5m difference)
Now imagine you are doing this for 5 years, plus you are an active player ! Imagine how much AD you have now.
- Ishikawa diagram used in industry to resolve complex system failure
- 5W or 5 Why developped by Taiichi OHNO used to determine primal cause of a problem
These tools are used to optimize car manufacturing companies, but it's usefull in informatic project managing as I use them. Maybe using these you should find another conclusion to your problem of ZAX.Believe me, I fully understand how it can add up in your inventory! LOL. I'm currently storing a stack of each of the five bags you get from QM enchantments, Coffers of Celestial Artifacts, Steward's Incentives, Chultan Treasures (the treasure boxes from the maps), Hidden Treasures (the treasure boxes from SoMI maps), and something else. Plus, I haven't taken my experience awards since the last double refining stone weekend (back in March?). I'm beyond anxious for next weekend when I can open all that stuff!
As for how much wealth it will create ... for me, not very much. I'll be using every last thing that can be converted to RP in order to refine enchantments (on my main) or artifacts and artifact gear (on my two semi-regularly played non-main characters). That said, if I didn't need that stuff for refining, it would probably fetch me quite a bit on the AH. Though I have to admit that I wouldn't be sitting on it until the end of the year; I'd be selling it on the AH as fast as possible. I simply don't have the bank space/inventory space to sit on all that stuff for 6 months.
Edit: or not, in my confusion i confused myself with my own thoughts ^^
Current lure trade as a side effect actually gives a pretty good AD sink and it is a better AD sink than trading lure in AH directly.
Add an AD purchase option to every one time purchase (Wards, companions, consumables, etc) with a bias point of 400*(Zen cost of item), making it cheaper to buy the item with AD (thus removing the AD from the economy) when the ADX is high, and better to buy with Zen when the ADX is lower (encouraging players who can afford to spend the money to purchase Zen for cash). Could be a slightly higher bias point (450, etc).
Reinstate the 10% Posting fee in the Auction House (would need to compensate VIP holders for this change). Right now we can just post whatever we want at any price point we want, flooding the market and devaluing everything across the board.
Add another key to VIP, and increase the value of the lockbox drops - The best AD sink we currently have is the 10% lost in an auction house purchase. Unfortunately most drops from lockboxes and dungeons/skirmishes that can be sold sell for HAMSTER.
Unbind all drops, make Bind on Equip. Again, we don't have enough items of value to sell, so the AH AD sink is largely wasted.
Add Hunt Lures and DROPS to the Auction House - Allowing us to sell those drops would drive a huge chunk of AD out of the economy and make Hunts more rewarding, increasing participation.
Most large value items are traded for SMOPs/UMOPs to avoid the auction house cut. I'm not sure what the solution is here, since we need to be able to trade with friends, but this is a problem for AD sinks and might need to be addressed if the other suggestions don't fix the problem.
Lower the ridiculous prices in the Wondrous Bazaar. Aside from the MOPs, I don't know of anyone who buys anything from the WB because the prices are far too high. An AD sink doesn't work if no one wants to buy it.
Would also be ok with a 10% increase to match the selling fee. That way, no matter if the item sells or not, the AD sink works. Doesn't hurt sellers who already price reasonably, since it is returned when the item sells, and encourages lower numbers for sale, increasing the value of the goods sold and the amount cut out by the sink.
Its like the car rental company telling you, you have 100k free KMs for the next 25 mins and you can go ahead and rent many more vehicles to drive under that deal!; sounds great! and during the nanosecond b4 you realize how ridiculous that is, you hear the staff already in full laughter --at you
The only real reason to use the AH now is to convert in-game items into AD that can be used to purchase Zen to purchase things in the Zen store. After this Jubilee sale, I will have anything and everything I want from the Zen store so there is no loss to me at all.
There is already a secondary market that is alive and well that bypasses the AH altogether with its own meta-currency. If we were to compare it to real world currency, P-Wards are like pennies, gmops are nickels, smops are dimes, Umops are quarters, UES are dollars, and C-wards are like five dollar bills. You can pretty much get really even trades for any item in the game if you have a consistent exchange rate (which PC does thanks to the 500:1 AD/Zen on the Zax). All you have to do is look at the AH to see what the going market rate is for an item (which will fluctuate due to supply and demand) and adjust from there.
Anyway, I am not sure removing posting fee has positive impact to AD sink.
If removing posting fee means lowering price in AH, it means smaller AD sink for a successful transaction.
i.e. for an item that was 1 million AD, it would destroy 100K AD.
Now, if the item becomes 800K AD, it would destroy 80K AD.