Official Feedback Thread: Astral Diamonds

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  • sandukutupu
    sandukutupu Member Posts: 2,284 Arc User
    This is one of those threads that keeps growing and growing ... like a Chia Pet. Wait, I killed my Chia Pet, so that was a poor analogy. I was talking to some friends, and one said he is "stoked" about this new mod 14. He has no opinion on the RAD limits because, just like the new mod, it isn't here yet. Overall chat in the game has been very inaccurate, leading people think ALL they can make is 100K per day. If you look at Charthraxis, I hit him up for a weapon or more, once a week. Those sell like ... uhm... Dragon Bone Weapons do in the auction house. I was going to say, "hot cakes" but those don't sell in the AH. I get AD not RAD from it. When the new mod hits the streets, so does another lock box. Hopefully more impressive than the last one, but I don't buy keys to open them. I let YOU open them for me, dump the contents on the auction house. Then I buy what I think will go up in value, sit and wait. I admit it is a risk but I always find people who pay out 10 times what I paid. The problem with many of the players who come to this thread to vent, they want quick and immediate rewards. They don't want kill a bunch of dragons or invest in the future. At least, this is my opinion, they don't really want to play the game, they want the game to play itself.

    Now that you vented, have fun, and enjoy the game!
    wb-cenders.gif
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    kreatyve said:

    arcanjo86 said:

    these changes are to affect the 3% of the player base that can make tons of ad on a single day(refine salvage, do weeklies and play the ah). they didnt even bother to multiply the values for each different class toon on the account, limiting that cap for each different class toon would be amazing. @noworries#8859

    Playing the AH has nothing to do with the change at all. They are only limiting how much AD can be generated out of thin air, not how much AD you can earn per day via other means (selling stuff). The rich players will still have their big supply of AD for a while.
    Meh. There is already a limit on how many AD we can have. You throttle that even more and all that will happen is that a secondary market will emerge with a meta-currency that only briefly interacts with AD/Zen. You see that happening now with Hunt Lures; you can't post those on the AH or sell them directly, but you can trade them for other in-game items like gmops. You force us into a secondary market, and you lose the AH AD sink. Seems kind of counterproductive to me.
  • lowjohn
    lowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User

    I still think the excess of AD in the economy can be dealt with AD sinks instead of a cap, but i understand that making AD more valuable/rarer creates incentive to buy Zen to buy AD which helps Cryptic profit, i have no problem with that.

    Ok, now I'm glad someone's said this, because I want to understand how that logic follows.
    Please, explain how someone who is not buying Zen now to trade at 500 AD per 1 Zen, is going to suddenly drop a wodge of cash on Zen because it now converts at 350.

    Why would they buy something that is suddenly more expensive if they weren't buying it at its cheapest possible price already?

    Cos, the way my head figures it, if anything they would be less inclined because their Zen will be less valuable on fixed price transactions such as those found in the Wondrous Bazaar.

    I'm not being funny or sarcastic, I just can't understand how lowering the relative value of Zen on the ZAX will encourage people to spend real world money to buy more of it than they are doing now.
    Because AD is super-easy to get, everyone has lots of it and nobody needs to sell Zen to get it. People aren't doing it at 500-1 because the "actual value" of Zen is more than 500 AD - if they want AD, they spend Zen on Zen items and sell them for AD in-game. Or they just run a few dungeons and salvage some stuff, because AD is easy to get.

    If AD was harder to get, then there would be more incentive to sell Zen to get AD. If you can't make more AD by running content and by buying Zen items to sell for AD, then suddenly "I need AD!" and "I have Zen!" become matching attractive options. Even if you get fewer AD per Zen than you do right now, there might be a reason to make the trade.


    (Again, I look at this as something STO has done very well: In STO, you *cannot* sell Zen items for AD ("Dilithium"). You can only sell them for Gold ("EC"), because the AH in STO only works using Gold. Same with Lockbox jackpots: You can't turn those into a stack of Dilithium because the AH doesn't use Dilithium. If you want "AD" in STO, you can either refine it yourself or trade Zen for it, there's no third option.)
  • naoqueroforum
    naoqueroforum Member Posts: 225 Arc User
    I didn't see anywhere, so does anyone know what happens to the invocation ad bonus?
  • draconislupus
    draconislupus Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    > @kreatyve said:
    > Someone posted this really good thread on Reddit regarding what people can still do with multiple alts to make AD. Rather than generating it out of thin air, you will have to actually sell stuff, but it's got some great ideas in it. :)

    And point number 4 is exactly why I said many, many pages ago that this change will make all things related to Professions skyrocket.
  • lowjohn
    lowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User

    I didn't see anywhere, so does anyone know what happens to the invocation ad bonus?

    No change.
  • baeyorn
    baeyorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 146 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    To be straight up on this...

    This will have low to minimal impact to me. I rarely get more than 100k Rad in a day. As in only when I do some extensive dungeom/skirmish running.

    Now, I do see a benefit, of sorts. I will NOT have to run my 8+ characters through Randon Queues every day.

    I can cyce through them, and let the bonus AD perk build up from the usual invokes.

    Sure, there may be a couple or 3 days when I have time off that I hit the cap.

    But playing ony 2 hours or so a night average, no effect.

    Now an opinion, anything the removes the need to treat NWO as a Job instead of casual fun.. I am all for that.

    Using that viewpoint, this is a step in the right direction.

    :)
  • pterias
    pterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    vordayn said:

    vordayn said:

    I was pondering, what about a merchant's fee for using the ZAX unidirectionally (AD to Zen)? like a 2% charge e.g. at the current rate of 1:500, to purchase 1 Zen it would cost the buyer 510 AD (rounded up to the nearest integer), whereby 500 AD goes to the Zen seller, and 10 AD is consumed by the ZAX. The ZAX is a very useful feature for all players, but there is no fee for using it. This would be an easy to implement AD sink, make exchanging Zen more attractive rather than the other way around, and at 2% should not significantly hinder the ability to purchase Zen items via the ZAX. However, it could be a slippery slope in 'taxing' the AD. It could be trialled to see if it would work, or abandoned just as quickly if there was too much of a backlash i.e. if people voted with their feet and left the game.

    Discuss.

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

    Yeah, it's not going to be a popular thing by any stretch of imagination. I was hesitant to write it down.. But do I want to see the ZAX improved? Yes.
    Having a small, one-way fee on the exchange occurred to me a couple days ago, but I resisted the urge to write it down. :smile:
  • mordekai#1901
    mordekai#1901 Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User

    The numbers you suggest, and even an increase in relative value at all seem to have less science behind them than fervent prayer.

    What's science got to do with any of this? Or prayer for that matter? That's silly.

    I guess I should point out - 'cause it does make a difference, but I've been talking about actual living breathing economies - which currently only exist on console. The PC's economy is hampered by a broken exchange.

    Honestly, I'm close to not caring very much what happens. I'm just very interested in the outcome. Still, I'd like to see it work as intended 'cause I enjoy the game, and I have a lot more respect for the developers than I do for a certain portion of their playerbase.

    Anyway, as I already stated, it would work best if the WB, SH, and Profession prices were adjusted, 'cause that would frankly be absurdly stupid if they weren't. If they remain at their current prices, I agree with you, that would be counterproductive because it would just deflate the Zen even more and exacerbate the current problem.

    The Auction House is its own beast, but the dev's valuation of items within those areas will definitely have a bearing.

    The new "relative value" of AD will relate to what it currently is to players depending on how much they currently earn.

    It doesn't work like that.

    Decreasing the amount of available currency only increases its value.
    Currently, on the console, the sliding scale you talked about works both ways. The more AD players are able to dump into the exchange, the less value it has, and the more things cost on the AH. Imagine if the devs raised the daily RAD cap to 100,000 per character instead, yeah, our Zen would trade for massive amounts of AD, but anything we bought with that AD will cost massive amounts more than it already does.

    With the PC, things are a little more interesting since no matter how much AD there is piled up in the market, it's always going to sell 500:1 Zen - at least for the foreseeable future. Now if the devs do adjust AD prices in their areas of control - (which they really shouldn't until the exchange starts kicking), you've got an even better reason to purchase Zen because it'll buy even more in the AD markets.
    Ok, explain where you got 40-60% from. Maths = science, plucking out of thin air based on what someone hopes it might do with nothing to back it up = prayer.
    Show me the working out that equates to 40-60% and I'll believe you.

    Decreasing its volume only decreases its value relative to the exchange rate. For it to truly change, all fixed price merchandise would have to move in line with the fluctuations in exactly the same way as the AH, such as anything from the Wondrous Bazaar, otherwise 100'000 AD will equate to 1 SMOP etc.
    That is why dropping the amount will not change the value by anywhere near the figures hoped for.

    The goal for any change in the economy should be to increase the demand for AD before limiting its availability, in order to drive Zen sales from people who don't have stockpiles of AD. Simply lowering the availability of AD will not drive that need. Because the value of AD will not raise by enough to warrant such behaviour. There are, (as has been pointed out several times) hundreds of billions of AD already in the market. lowering AH prices will not remove these quickly enough to make any difference. Actually, it probably would, but it would take far too long to be noticeable, and certainly not fat enough to solve the problem of Zen to AD, because... again... people don't see enough need to buy Zen to trade, since there is not enough available AD merchandise. Thats why PC is always at 500, PS is there or there abouts, and XB is at its longest period at or around 400 for a long time.

    I play on XB, but continue to use PC stats since most of the people on here are PC players.
  • greywynd
    greywynd Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 6,458 Arc User



    Second, the Zen market is clutter with AD exchange due to players needing to use the system to transfer AD between characters. Adding AD to the shared bank will remove some of those exchanges that are in your back log.

    Player transfers between characters are usually done at 50:1 and not left in the exchange longer than it takes to put the sale up, cancel it, switch to the character getting the AD and withdrawing it.
    I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
  • mordekai#1901
    mordekai#1901 Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    lowjohn said:

    I still think the excess of AD in the economy can be dealt with AD sinks instead of a cap, but i understand that making AD more valuable/rarer creates incentive to buy Zen to buy AD which helps Cryptic profit, i have no problem with that.

    Ok, now I'm glad someone's said this, because I want to understand how that logic follows.
    Please, explain how someone who is not buying Zen now to trade at 500 AD per 1 Zen, is going to suddenly drop a wodge of cash on Zen because it now converts at 350.

    Why would they buy something that is suddenly more expensive if they weren't buying it at its cheapest possible price already?

    Cos, the way my head figures it, if anything they would be less inclined because their Zen will be less valuable on fixed price transactions such as those found in the Wondrous Bazaar.

    I'm not being funny or sarcastic, I just can't understand how lowering the relative value of Zen on the ZAX will encourage people to spend real world money to buy more of it than they are doing now.


    If AD was harder to get, then there would be more incentive to sell Zen to get AD. If you can't make more AD by running content and by buying Zen items to sell for AD, then suddenly "I need AD!" and "I have Zen!" become matching attractive options. Even if you get fewer AD per Zen than you do right now, there might be a reason to make the trade.
    But, again, that only follows if a) there is a reason to want AD in the first place, which doesn't seem to be the case now on any platform but XB, and no one is going to convince me that is because the AH prices are too high. and b) that even if it WERE that AH prices are deemed too high, that they would fall by more than the equivalent rate of ADs relative value.

    6 montns ago, Z:AD ran at circa 350:1 on XB.
    a TFD mount/GR Legendary Pack ran at about 6.5-7 million AD. Unified Elements ran at about 50k.
    Now the Z:AD is hovering round 400:1 and TFD/GRLP runs at around 6.5-7 million and UEs at 33k.

    Market trends and availability of product influence those prices far more than the availability of AD, because if it falls into the "I really need that" or the "I desperately desire that" category, it has, is and will remain, a sellers market. Availability of (NEW) AD not withstanding.

    Until there are new reasons to buy AD, not governed by existing practise, that will not change. Certainly not by enough to make the sort of difference I assume is desired, going by the draconian level of the flat account wide cap of 100k.

    ADs are not Harry and Meghan Wedding Commemorative £5 coins, they are not "The Lincoln Penny" no one is going to desire them simply because they might be a bit rarer than they were lat week. Not without something worth spending them on.
  • nunya#5309
    nunya#5309 Member Posts: 933 Arc User

    ~snipped the rest~

    ADs are not Harry and Meghan Wedding Commemorative £5 coins, they are not "The Lincoln Penny" no one is going to desire them simply because they might be a bit rarer than they were lat week. Not without something worth spending them on.

    I think what really determines whether you're mainly amassing AD or mainly spending AD is more dependent upon how well geared your character|s is|are. I have 8 level 70 characters, one which is clearly my main character, two which are semi-regularly played, and the rest that are doing professions, get run through random dungeons, and occasionally run the stronghold when there's double influence or double guild marks. All my characters are poor. My three "main" characters are currently amassing AD for when the Wondrous Bazaar goes on sale because I want to buy a bunch of gmops and smops (and possibly a couple of umops). They'll all three be broke again after that.

    The rest of the characters are investing in heroes and adventurers for Leadership so I can level that faster and, once leveled, generate refining stones faster. At current prices, my three main characters already have invested about 750k into those things, and two of them are level 25 Leadership. Even once I'm done buying those things, I'll be saving for Wondrous Bazaar sales (and to buy superior [and eventually ultimate] enchanting stones off the AH). My main character is already done refining all his artifacts, has 3 r12 QM enchants, 3 r12 dark enchants, and 7 r10 black ice enchants. Even if I focus exclusively on enchantments for my main character, I'm going to be spending most of my AD on refinement stones for quite a while.

    So I won't be primarily amassing AD for a long time to come. Once the characters I play are geared, then that is when that will change.
  • mynaam
    mynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 922 Arc User
    edited May 2018

    This is one of those threads that keeps growing and growing ... like a Chia Pet. Wait, I killed my Chia Pet, so that was a poor analogy. I was talking to some friends, and one said he is "stoked" about this new mod 14. He has no opinion on the RAD limits because, just like the new mod, it isn't here yet. Overall chat in the game has been very inaccurate, leading people think ALL they can make is 100K per day. If you look at Charthraxis, I hit him up for a weapon or more, once a week. Those sell like ... uhm... Dragon Bone Weapons do in the auction house. I was going to say, "hot cakes" but those don't sell in the AH. I get AD not RAD from it. When the new mod hits the streets, so does another lock box. Hopefully more impressive than the last one, but I don't buy keys to open them. I let YOU open them for me, dump the contents on the auction house. Then I buy what I think will go up in value, sit and wait. I admit it is a risk but I always find people who pay out 10 times what I paid. The problem with many of the players who come to this thread to vent, they want quick and immediate rewards. They don't want kill a bunch of dragons or invest in the future. At least, this is my opinion, they don't really want to play the game, they want the game to play itself.

    Now that you vented, have fun, and enjoy the game!

    I could not disagree more. This change is actually directed at people willing to spend a large amount of time working hard to make ad. Making more than 100k ad is not fast or easy work. Small players will also be punished with these new changes they will only be able to get 20k RAD(t1 & t2 random) and that is not a smart move.


    EDIT: Not to mention the people that was tricked into buying campaign tokens that are now worthless to them since most alt's is useless now. a funny thing since we still get supposed alt friendly (1hour a week) campaigns.
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • fightdawalrus#5058
    fightdawalrus#5058 Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    20 pages of feedback and there's some great ideas.

    Lets see if the devs actually listen or continue with the nerfs.

    Right now, mod 14 seems like it will be my last.
  • fightdawalrus#5058
    fightdawalrus#5058 Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @eolee said:
    > Playing the AH has nothing to do with the change at all. They are only limiting how much AD can be generated out of thin air, not how much AD you can earn per day via other means (selling stuff). The rich players will still have their big supply of AD for a while.
    >
    > Generated out of thin air. rADs are generated by dungeons runs/salvages right?
    > I didnt know this was considered "thin air" in a game based on dungeons and dragons.

    For a moderator, she's out of the loop on this game.

    Apparently buying legendary dragon keys for certain end game dungeons and running them a lot and sinking your time into and gaining salvage to refine AD or sinking your time into running RQ's for rAD is her idea of items coming out of "thin air."

    Its kind of insulting to see that is how a moderator looks at your time in the game. Nothing in this game just comes out of thin air, you are either investing your time/money or both. It just seems you agree with whatever the devs do and that's your choice but don't act as if players are doing nothing with their time and magically gaining items/ad.
  • mordekai#1901
    mordekai#1901 Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    mynaam said:

    This is one of those threads that keeps growing and growing ... like a Chia Pet. Wait, I killed my Chia Pet, so that was a poor analogy. I was talking to some friends, and one said he is "stoked" about this new mod 14. He has no opinion on the RAD limits because, just like the new mod, it isn't here yet. Overall chat in the game has been very inaccurate, leading people think ALL they can make is 100K per day. If you look at Charthraxis, I hit him up for a weapon or more, once a week. Those sell like ... uhm... Dragon Bone Weapons do in the auction house. I was going to say, "hot cakes" but those don't sell in the AH. I get AD not RAD from it. When the new mod hits the streets, so does another lock box. Hopefully more impressive than the last one, but I don't buy keys to open them. I let YOU open them for me, dump the contents on the auction house. Then I buy what I think will go up in value, sit and wait. I admit it is a risk but I always find people who pay out 10 times what I paid. The problem with many of the players who come to this thread to vent, they want quick and immediate rewards. They don't want kill a bunch of dragons or invest in the future. At least, this is my opinion, they don't really want to play the game, they want the game to play itself.

    Now that you vented, have fun, and enjoy the game!

    I could not disagree more. This change is actually directed at people willing to spend a large amount of time working hard to make ad. Making more than 100k ad is not fast or easy work. Small players will also be punished with these new changes they will only be able to get 20k RAD(t1 & t2 random) and that is not a smart move.


    EDIT: Not to mention the people that was tricked into buying campaign tokens that are now worthless to them since most alt's is useless now. a funny thing since we still get supposed alt friendly (1hour a week) campaigns.
    Yes and No...
    If you've got 7 or more toons geared to the third tier of random dungeons under the change you will HAMSTER all over a two toon part timer in the 100k daily cap stakes.
    Rotate those toons through the first 3 RQs, then 5 weeklies and a couple of ETOS (or whatever your personal choice of salvage vehicle) and you will be there or thereabouts on the 100k due in most part to weeklies and seven days worth of invoke RAD bonus stacks.
    Try hitting those numbers on one toon, after you've blown your weeklies on day one... with only one days bonus invoke RAD stacks per day...

    Of course the cap itself is punitively low for the guy with 7+ toons compared to what they were earning before, but they will be far better suited to getting the cap quickly each day and moving on to something else.
    But even if someone only runs one toon, 40-50k will be achievable, so in a world where AD is (apparently) worth more than now, (hell even if its value DROPS by 5%) that dude is still miles better off than they were before compared to the grafter who spent time money and effort building their income stream.

    Pat on the back for acknowledging the old "effort to reward ratio" guys... buy yourselves a drink to celebrate how much you just don't get it...
    Post edited by mordekai#1901 on
  • sengir0#3465
    sengir0#3465 Member Posts: 54 Arc User

    Additional AD sinks is also an area we are looking into and have some future plans already, but continue to investigate fun/rewarding ways to spend AD.

    in the meantime, you guys are nerfing your long time players
  • mordekai#1901
    mordekai#1901 Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User

    ~snipped the rest~

    ADs are not Harry and Meghan Wedding Commemorative £5 coins, they are not "The Lincoln Penny" no one is going to desire them simply because they might be a bit rarer than they were lat week. Not without something worth spending them on.

    I think what really determines whether you're mainly amassing AD or mainly spending AD is more dependent upon how well geared your character|s is|are. I have 8 level 70 characters, one which is clearly my main character, two which are semi-regularly played, and the rest that are doing professions, get run through random dungeons, and occasionally run the stronghold when there's double influence or double guild marks. All my characters are poor. My three "main" characters are currently amassing AD for when the Wondrous Bazaar goes on sale because I want to buy a bunch of gmops and smops (and possibly a couple of umops). They'll all three be broke again after that.

    The rest of the characters are investing in heroes and adventurers for Leadership so I can level that faster and, once leveled, generate refining stones faster. At current prices, my three main characters already have invested about 750k into those things, and two of them are level 25 Leadership. Even once I'm done buying those things, I'll be saving for Wondrous Bazaar sales (and to buy superior [and eventually ultimate] enchanting stones off the AH). My main character is already done refining all his artifacts, has 3 r12 QM enchants, 3 r12 dark enchants, and 7 r10 black ice enchants. Even if I focus exclusively on enchantments for my main character, I'm going to be spending most of my AD on refinement stones for quite a while.

    So I won't be primarily amassing AD for a long time to come. Once the characters I play are geared, then that is when that will change.
    Ultimately, on this subject, what matters to a player is this... "when I sit down to play this game, will my efforts be rewarded at a consistent rate"

    Basically, if they put in the hours, will they get the same return.
    Not the individual worth of a HAMSTER Astral Diamond, but the value of their participation in the process.

    If the answer is "yes", or "well... there might be a slight pinch, but everyone will be hit the same cos thats what the game's infrastructure requires" there will be slim to no adverse response.

    If however the answer, "Hell No... not even close. The more you have already invested in your account in order to earn what you currently do, the heavier the impact will be... oh and by the way... players who have never even tried to achieve more will have the potential to more than double their earnings." there might just be some outright HAMSTER outrage on the part of those players.

    I'll use myself again as an example but there are people for whom this kick in the tezzies will hit them in the throat.
    I refine roughly 200000 RADs per day.
    If when these changes come in, I can no longer, on a monthly basis, buy a fifty key plus VIP, about twenty stronghold chests of power, and have enough AD left to buy a hundred or so stronghold vouchers and still have the equivalent of a million or so AD to actually use on my characters... then my time and participation in the game will be worth LESS than it is now.
    Of course, I understand that this may happen if the cost of Zen were to go up as a natural part of the game, but that impact would apply the same to everyone. It wouldn't be as a result of a decision to reward people for doing nothing to improve their situation, while penalising those who did something to improve theirs.

    If they capped the maximum an account could hold, that would force people to either spend what they do earn or have it disappear.
    As long as it wasn't some derisory sum like ten million....

    "Use it or lose it..." That would drive the level of AD down. Particularly if these hundreds of billions reside in just a few "low single digit percentage" accounts.

    Just saying...
  • undeparted
    undeparted Member Posts: 88 Arc User
    They could raise up the daily account refinement amount to 500k. It will make very little difference. At least as long as the only the first random queue rewards are awarded per account, it will require a tremendous amount of time to acquire the salvage to make up for the remaining amount of AD that you will be short off.

    I fear that this whole announcement is to create shock and fear, and then when we have all been sufficiently frightened, tell us - okay, we have heard your complaints and have decided to raise the daily cap to 200k . Yay! See how great developers we are... All the while knowing it won't make the slightest of difference, seeing as we can't reach the daily cap anyway...
  • johnnyreklaw#1518
    johnnyreklaw#1518 Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    The following is being written after long discussions with my guild and alliance members concerning this change. I read about the 1st 9 pages of this, then after the weekend I haven't had a chance to. My Alliance has a large breakdown of members from players leveling their 1st characters to end-game players with multiple 17k+ toons. I came up with the below proposal after talking to end-game, staring out, and mid-game players about this issue.

    PROPOSAL: Keep the changes to random queue AD Bonuses, but allow the 36k cap per character to remain in place.

    FACTS:
    1) As stated somewhere in the first 9 pages of this thread that I read, a “Single-digit percentage” of players are going over 100k currently.
    2) Players are doing this with random queues on EVERY character giving bonus AD
    3) Players are tired of carrying “alts” through content that are under geared. I, for one, am tired of my Item-level boosted rogue being carried through FBI when it queues (and she gets it all the time), and it can’t be fun to carry that toon (with her gold gain insignias, Rank 7 enchants, and purple equipment).
    4) The Market needs to drop to help newer players. This is the whole reason this change is being considered. Even end-game players can benefit from this.
    5) Cost of Marks and Companion upgrades (the most frequent upgrades for end game characters) won’t change in cost, despite the value of AD. Consequently, the marks from the Bazaar directly delete AD as does companion upgrades.
    6) Players abhor being limited by developers in gaining ANYTHING, especially something previously available at a different amount.

    RATIONALE: In the part of this discussion I’ve read, nothing stated exactly what percentage of players were hitting over 100k, but we can safely assume 9% or less. The easiest way to gain this cap is with multiple toons. I myself have 7 characters (4 that qualify for Epic Dungeons). With this and 3-4 hours, I can gain 252k AD daily without running “salvage runs”. You have, however, effectively removed a large source of this income with this change: The Random Dungeon/skirmish/Epic bonus on all but one character. This is about 150k of my 252k I earn daily. Let’s assume I average 5000 RAD per salvage piece (a high estimation), I now need 30 pieces of equilivant salvage MORE to hit my current cap. How many of that 9% or less will actually salvage farm long enough to do that (whatever their character cap is)?

    This won’t be doable for me every day as I work a job. I’ll probably settle for around 150-200k at most and call it a day. Having to salvage that much every day is impossible for my play schedule. Currently I only get that much salvage with weekly quests RAD on each character. I usually am hurting for salvage at the end of the week. Without the RAD bonus on multiple toons from random queues, I will burn through my extra salvage quickly. I assume I’m not alone in this as even the Wallet Warriors have to finance their hobby with some kind of job.

    Players without the RAD bonus for each character’s random queues will generate less AD by a grand scale. Most players will only run for the bonus AD (as they currently do) and generate no more. Furthermore, they won’t be running their under geared alts through dungeons. Random dungeon quality will improve as more players are running their best (and fastest) characters through the runs. There will be more "salvage runs", which I see as a perk for guild/alliance activity, but not on the scale of getting what the AD farmers would need.

    The issue is the cap. At a 100k cap, I (the end-game player, VIP 12)can buy one UMOP per day assuming I have no other purchases I make. Then there is the cost of preservation wards that will take another day or two depending on my lousy RNG and 3% chance of upgrade. Should I want to make a Transcendent weapon/armor enchantment, 15 SMOPS is several days without counting the Coal ward I will need to buy. This is the End-Game thinking and the problem with capping us. Am I going to give 10 days’ worth of income to a legendary companion for 1% bonus stats? Am I going to give 2-3 days’ worth of income for 150 power (rad 12-13)? That seems a steep price for so little gain.

    Finally, we have been making AD under your system and now you say it’s too much. We players hate being given limits on something available before. Wouldn’t the above random queue change impose self-limits? Who is going to run so much salvage to get 500k every day? That is another 70-80ish PURPLE salvage pieces over what I would need for my cap. As I said above, the task of hitting 252k is daunting to me as it is. Will some players do it? Yes. There are always outliers. But if less than 10% of us are doing it now, how many more will fall under 100k with an even harder time of making ad? Even the salvage to hit 100k will hit so many as too much time, and the value would drop. However, this is now a player imposed cap, not a developer one. We have had to limit ourselves and the potential is still there. Players will have to choose how to spend there time and what is most important for their characters.

    End-game players have been your most loyal and are essential to helping players grow. If no one is helping the new players grow/progress, many mid-game players will fall stagnant and quit. In my alliance, we often run newer players through 1st time FBI/MSP/T9G, etc. I even did a 1st time Malabog’s Castle the other day. We have a chance to talk to players and help them with mechanics they’re missing and learn from us. I know half the end game is elitist pricks, but the rest of us are actually helping you retain player base. Please don’t penalize us or reduce our upgrade time by capping our AD at such a low amount. Some in my guild/alliance said they will quit if this change goes through as stated. It would be roughly 2-3 months of earnings to just upgrade 1 characters enchants from 12-13 at such a low cap. With multiple toons, we won't ever get them all where we want them as the CAP is stopping us. We are still capped for the outliers who will earn 500k a day, but not nearly as many characters will max out with the random queue change.

    Side note: most end-game players are buying marks to upgrade, making armor kits, and upgrading companions... all of which eat AD. Therefore, a lot of the “excess” AD from end game is eaten up.

    CONCLUSION: You are hurting end-game players and drastically slowing our character progress to an unreasonable amount with a 100k cap. If we are given 36k per character, but we have to salvage it, a lot of players are likely to reduce their gains, while self-capping at a reasonable amount. Take away ways to earn, but don’t gives us limitations where they were not previously. Let us cap ourselves and you have less outrages at you and less quitters of your product.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but thanks for listening (I hope) and at least considering the above.
  • polysatyr81
    polysatyr81 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    I agree with the Fabiricant with the Masterwork being good AD sinks. It helps people who aren't in guilds who can afford to spare the supplies necessary to make the Profession shops as well as helps AD get spent.
  • lowjohn
    lowjohn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,061 Arc User

    lowjohn said:

    I still think the excess of AD in the economy can be dealt with AD sinks instead of a cap, but i understand that making AD more valuable/rarer creates incentive to buy Zen to buy AD which helps Cryptic profit, i have no problem with that.

    Ok, now I'm glad someone's said this, because I want to understand how that logic follows.
    Please, explain how someone who is not buying Zen now to trade at 500 AD per 1 Zen, is going to suddenly drop a wodge of cash on Zen because it now converts at 350.

    Why would they buy something that is suddenly more expensive if they weren't buying it at its cheapest possible price already?

    Cos, the way my head figures it, if anything they would be less inclined because their Zen will be less valuable on fixed price transactions such as those found in the Wondrous Bazaar.

    I'm not being funny or sarcastic, I just can't understand how lowering the relative value of Zen on the ZAX will encourage people to spend real world money to buy more of it than they are doing now.


    If AD was harder to get, then there would be more incentive to sell Zen to get AD. If you can't make more AD by running content and by buying Zen items to sell for AD, then suddenly "I need AD!" and "I have Zen!" become matching attractive options. Even if you get fewer AD per Zen than you do right now, there might be a reason to make the trade.
    But, again, that only follows if a) there is a reason to want AD in the first place, which doesn't seem to be the case now on any platform but XB, and no one is going to convince me that is because the AH prices are too high. and b) that even if it WERE that AH prices are deemed too high, that they would fall by more than the equivalent rate of ADs relative value.

    [...]

    Until there are new reasons to buy AD, not governed by existing practise, that will not change. Certainly not by enough to make the sort of difference I assume is desired, going by the draconian level of the flat account wide cap of 100k.

    ADs are not Harry and Meghan Wedding Commemorative £5 coins, they are not "The Lincoln Penny" no one is going to desire them simply because they might be a bit rarer than they were lat week. Not without something worth spending them on.
    There's tons of things worth spending AD on in the current system. There's just no reason to trade Zen for AD because there's so many *better* ways to make AD than by trading Zen for it - including the most crazy thing that because of the backlog, Zen items sell for more AD than their Zen price.[1]

    If it wasn't as easy as it is to make AD through other means, more people would be likely to spend Zen to make AD, *even if* the price drops a bit.


    [1]: If you have 850 Zen, you can buy a Coalescent ward, toss is up on the AH a few percent below the cheapest ward already on the market, and it will sell very quickly.... for about 1200 Zen worth of AD.

    The person who bought it from you *could* have traded their AD for Zen, and bought the same ward for 850 Zen instead of "1200 Zen", but that would have taken several weeks of waiting. You *could* have traded your Zen for AD directly, but you wouldn't have gotten as much as you did by flipping a Zen item.
  • mebengalsfan#9264
    mebengalsfan#9264 Member Posts: 3,169 Arc User

    I love this change. So glad cryptic is putting it in.



    Too bad for the botters and people selling AD 3rd party, QQ

    It won't change anything for the botters or AD farmers. Go a few post above and read what I wrote on this topic. The only people this will impact are those that are honest and run only 1 account. Anyone who wants more AD will create more accounts and run multiple accounts instead of running multiple characters.
  • rubytrue
    rubytrue Member Posts: 565 Arc User
    I think folks are missing the point entirely.

    The problem isn't with AD. The problem is what people do with their AD.

    People with a lot of AD are using it to purchase Zen.

    People who purchase Zen with AD aren't purchasing Zen with real money.

    If people aren't purchasing Zen with real money, Cryptic has a cash flow problem.

    If Cryptic has a cash flow problem, they go bankrupt.

    People can scream about the devs being unfair and that this is just a "cash grab" all they want, but they need to remember that while this game is "free to play," it isn't "free to make."

    If players have no incentive to spend real money to support the game they say they love, the devs will have no ability to continue making the game.

    Personally, I like playing the game and wouldn't mind it switching over to a subscription based service or at least start having premium paid content if that is what it takes to keep the game alive.
  • sengir0#3465
    sengir0#3465 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    i think ive read at some part of this thread that this is not to combat bot but to increase AD value. I would love to see more transmutes or a complete rework of zen store instead of a bandaid fix. ffs they still have a x3 blood rubies for 2k zen there
  • schietindebux
    schietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    edited May 2018
    If they want to hurt botters this change will be from no help, it only hurts correct player with one account, you gonna lose those ones in the end, leaving this game with botters and "multi-account-idiots".
    If there is no option to limit the ability to generate multiple accounts or monitor those player, it will be from no impact on bots.
    I don´t really know how a botter generates AD/RP at all. If leveling-dungeons is one way, cryptic should rethink the option to run low level dungeons on a lev 70 char.
    What is the intention for a level 70 char running leveling-dungeons anyway?
    It simply should not be available for a level 70 char imo.
    1. you kill any fun aspect for new player
    2. bots get pulled through as a side effect by max. geared player, who just don´t care.
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