Personally, I like playing the game and wouldn't mind it switching over to a subscription based service or at least start having premium paid content if that is what it takes to keep the game alive.
NO! Absolutely not. This is how it is in DDO and that just fractures the player community. It's a HAMSTER pain in the butt to have to check if the people you want to group with own the content you want to run.
Also, as far as the subscription-based service idea, that's what buying VIP is for. I already purchase VIP, am rank 12, and will be purchasing additional VIP time next month as the amount of time I still have left is growing short (and I value the VIP benefits). If you force people to pay to play the game, you're going to dramatically reduce the number of people playing this game. The number of players is this game's primary strength.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
If they want to hurt botters this change will be from no help, it only hurts correct player with one account, you gonna lose those ones in the end, leaving this game with botters and "multi-account-idiots". If there is no option to limit the ability to generate multiple accounts or monitor those player, it will be from no impact on bots. I don´t really know how a botter generates AD/RP at all. If leveling-dungeons is one way, cryptic should rethink the option to run low level dungeons on a lev 70 char. What is the intention for a level 70 char running leveling-dungeons anyway? It simply should not be available for a level 70 char imo. 1. you kill any fun aspect for new player 2. bots get pulled through as a side effect by max. geared player, who just don´t care.
Bots are not involved. No one said it is related to bots. On the contrary, it was clearly said that it's not because of bots. More so numbers for consoles were provided which are gaining on PC in therms of inflation and it's not the bots.
For better or worse, these are economical changes, and aimed at all players, humans and non-humans alike.
I'm not enthusiastic about this statement, but I'll concede you're right - though only on a case by case basis. In the case of this thread, I see some sporadic soft math (like mine!), but no science - which aside from a few principles like repeatability, just isn't necessary. Most of this thread's either base hysteria, or like you said, fervent optimism (like mine!).
As far as my numbers are concerned, I don't dare stand by them since they were just the roughest possible estimate when I posted them, but no one else was putting any out there. In the absence of a sonic screwdriver, a butterknife will have to do. I'm not interested in defending them, but I'll show you where I got them since you asked.
They were based on the disparity of RAD earned by 2-4 character players who currently run both random queues as well as players making up to 300,000 RAD a day - with what they would get after the changes if they continued to run both random queues or simply reached the 100K cap (proposed daily rq RAD/RAD currently earned in rqs, and 100k cap/current RAD earnings) - averages out to be around 60% and 30% respectively, but the top earners may have a larger impact on the exchange. I don't know, but I do realize it's more complicated than that. I was only interested in some kind of figures to look at, and I'm no brilliant economist, so I had to make do with stick figure mathematics.
So with this severe drop in AD, imagining that most players made less than 300,000 RAD a day, without taking any other variables into consideration, it's easy to imagine that the AD would increase in value at a commensurate rate - which is overly idealistic. There's no way just because players are earning 70% less AD, that it would be worth 70% more. I know that. There are too many other factors involved. So because I wanted some kind of figure to look at, I suggested 60% as one extreme (a fevered, fervent prayer if you wish), and 40% as the more conservative extreme - trying to take into account those extreme outliers who run characters in the double digits along with the vast numbers of players who currently only earn a few random queues worth of RAD these days. But considering all the other ways that AD is earned, and that players will simply turn to methods of earning straight up AD, 40% was too high - even 30% would have been way too generous.
But whatever. Setting aside the squawking of the Chicken Little chorus, the value of AD will rise at some point- if only temporarily. It has to. By how much. 0.1%? - that's overly pessimistic. 30%? - that's probably overly optimistic.
Again - I'm not interested in defending these figures - they're inaccurate, but they help me understand the concept even if only in a vague, limited way.
Want to make zen more available? Simple, just take a look on preservation and coalescent ward. If you can buy them with a 40/50% off you can sell them latter to double your AD. Granting a permanent 50% off will reduce the expended zen, making it more available, this can also make people don't want to keep all their savings in zen for the anniversary or Black Friday.
There's another option, move wards to wondrous bazaar that will have an immediate impact on the AD demand. ...
I agree with you, they break the economy and it is sad they don't have better items offered in zen. They use to have the wards in Trade Bars at one time, but moved them to the zen market. Once again I agree this was a bad move, I believe motivation was the knowledge people could just buy them with AD and not spending cash in the game. And coalescent wards are the "magic key" for any upgrade. There is little I care to purchase at all in the zen market. Foundry authors have said, if they would focus on Foundry repairs and add zen items or better yet a "Foundry Zen market tab" many of us would invest. (e.g. You want the dragon pack? 2000 zen and you get all the dragons just for your Foundry missions.) This notion might not work any more, since most of the well paid members left about 6 mods ago. Some were actual medical professionals, educators, and engineers. The gold standard should have been followed on day 1, STO and CO don't suffer these same issues. I can go there now and get lock box keys in the AH for 80 to 100 G. While it is not easy to get 100 G in the game the idea is their ZAX is trading far below the 500 and sometimes in the off season falls below 400.
While I don't believe this 100K cap or the other changes will fix anything, I also don't see this as the end of the world either.
If they want to hurt botters this change will be from no help, it only hurts correct player with one account, you gonna lose those ones in the end, leaving this game with botters and "multi-account-idiots". If there is no option to limit the ability to generate multiple accounts or monitor those player, it will be from no impact on bots. I don´t really know how a botter generates AD/RP at all. If leveling-dungeons is one way, cryptic should rethink the option to run low level dungeons on a lev 70 char. What is the intention for a level 70 char running leveling-dungeons anyway? It simply should not be available for a level 70 char imo. 1. you kill any fun aspect for new player 2. bots get pulled through as a side effect by max. geared player, who just don´t care.
Bots are not involved. No one said it is related to bots. On the contrary, it was clearly said that it's not because of bots. More so numbers for consoles were provided which are gaining on PC in therms of inflation and it's not the bots.
For better or worse, these are economical changes, and aimed at all players, humans and non-humans alike.
So if this is aimed to all player they gonna turn this game to some degree into a community of "multi-account-idiots", sounds very smart to me. Players sitting in a chair, relogging all day and matching their account logins from a chart to the left (or right) of their monitor with the adaequat account. Maybe it´s a way to increase the "number of player" in theory by boosting the number of accounts into the sky. Headline: "NWO a forgotten mmo monitored an increasing number of player mid of 2018 -> 500%+ <- awesome!! "
I do not refine high ammounts of AD a day, it won´t hurt my gameplay that much. This change will not get player to spend money for zen, it will lead to a faster backstep from this game by larger ammounts of player I am pretty sure. A big chunk of player allready can´t participate in endcontent for variable reasons, those ones who stick with Profession might have no problems too, but the ones in the mid will have no AD to buy crafted item nor have the drops from endcontent to gear or sell stuff, since they are capped. I think this disbalances the game more than it helps in the end.
Post edited by schietindebux on
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
If they want to hurt botters this change will be from no help, it only hurts correct player with one account, you gonna lose those ones in the end, leaving this game with botters and "multi-account-idiots". If there is no option to limit the ability to generate multiple accounts or monitor those player, it will be from no impact on bots. I don´t really know how a botter generates AD/RP at all. If leveling-dungeons is one way, cryptic should rethink the option to run low level dungeons on a lev 70 char. What is the intention for a level 70 char running leveling-dungeons anyway? It simply should not be available for a level 70 char imo. 1. you kill any fun aspect for new player 2. bots get pulled through as a side effect by max. geared player, who just don´t care.
Bots are not involved. No one said it is related to bots. On the contrary, it was clearly said that it's not because of bots. More so numbers for consoles were provided which are gaining on PC in therms of inflation and it's not the bots.
For better or worse, these are economical changes, and aimed at all players, humans and non-humans alike.
So if this is aimed to all player they gonna turn this game to some degree into a community of "multi-account-idiots", sounds very smart to me. Players sitting in a chair, relogging all day and matching their account logins from a chart to the left (or right) of their monitor with the adaequat account. Maybe it´s a way to to increase the "number of player" in theory by boosting the number of accounts into the sky. Headline: "NWO a forgotten mmo monitored an increasing number of player mid of 2018 -> 500%+ <- awesome!! "</p>
Out of those that are so affected by the cap, how many you think will make multiple accounts? Those that at end-game, and get salvage as by product of their runs will mostly not do it. Those that are not end-game and RQing for their life, will be more hit by RQ and seals change, though there you get more in less time but then you are stuck, so they will mostly just do the RQ, perhaps join some FBI or something and maybe get to 100k or maybe not. More likely not. And just finish for the day. ofcourse it's not black and white and there is all the between, and ofc, it's a guess, but realistically, the population is not that hard-core, and the average player will just play an hour less than go through all the hoops to make more accounts and make them viable to run several Random Queues.
I could not disagree more. This change is actually directed at people willing to spend a large amount of time working hard to make ad. Making more than 100k ad is not fast or easy work. Small players will also be punished with these new changes they will only be able to get 20k RAD(t1 & t2 random) and that is not a smart move.
EDIT: Not to mention the people that was tricked into buying campaign tokens that are now worthless to them since most alt's is useless now. a funny thing since we still get supposed alt friendly (1hour a week) campaigns.
I don't see the 20K RAD as being an issue since most new players (there are no small players) only have 2 characters. They can earn 50K AD each or 100K collectively. As of now they can only produce 72K collectively.
Now I never said it was "easy" and more to my point again making AD is not my goal here. I play games for amusement. As for alts and campaign tokens... I bought 1 Elemental Evil campaign token after my character Silvane Stardust got done (95%) and was 1 short of the goal on corrupted text in the Fiery Pit. She (I) did the whole campaign as all 8 of mine have done. Yes, I ran all 8 through EE and all campaigns. I don't use campaign tokens to bypass playing the game. All eight characters do it on their own. I don't and never will run a Astral Diamond farming army. My characters are not toons or alts to me, they are the collective of my works, they embody an overall story. Dungeon and Dragons isn't all about stats, score, and gold, but who has a great story and the grand adventure. It is obvious to me that our goals don't align.
If they want to hurt botters this change will be from no help, it only hurts correct player with one account, you gonna lose those ones in the end, leaving this game with botters and "multi-account-idiots". If there is no option to limit the ability to generate multiple accounts or monitor those player, it will be from no impact on bots. I don´t really know how a botter generates AD/RP at all. If leveling-dungeons is one way, cryptic should rethink the option to run low level dungeons on a lev 70 char. What is the intention for a level 70 char running leveling-dungeons anyway? It simply should not be available for a level 70 char imo. 1. you kill any fun aspect for new player 2. bots get pulled through as a side effect by max. geared player, who just don´t care.
Bots are not involved. No one said it is related to bots. On the contrary, it was clearly said that it's not because of bots. More so numbers for consoles were provided which are gaining on PC in therms of inflation and it's not the bots.
For better or worse, these are economical changes, and aimed at all players, humans and non-humans alike.
So if this is aimed to all player they gonna turn this game to some degree into a community of "multi-account-idiots", sounds very smart to me. Players sitting in a chair, relogging all day and matching their account logins from a chart to the left (or right) of their monitor with the adaequat account. Maybe it´s a way to to increase the "number of player" in theory by boosting the number of accounts into the sky. Headline: "NWO a forgotten mmo monitored an increasing number of player mid of 2018 -> 500%+
I don't think that's going to happen. The only people who might do this will be the really hardcore grinders. I'm not a grinder, even though I work to get my characters decked out in top gear. I have absolutely no interest in creating a second account (to say nothing of any more accounts than that!), and neither does my wife. I very much doubt people who dislike grinding will be willing to create additional accounts to generate AD.
Plus, creating another account introduces the problem of how do you transfer AD from one account to the other? I suppose you could sell it zen and use the zen on that account to buy things that are not BTA that one would use on one's primary account. That sounds like a lot of work to me.
No, I'll be accepting and living with this change in AD generation rates, even if I end up disliking it.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,453Arc User
edited May 2018
1. This change does not make people to spend more money to buy Zen. It is not about that at all. If that is cryptic's goal, they don't need to do anything. This change is not about that. This change works against that. Smaller Zax backlog means less incentive to pay money to buy Zen. Lower Zax rate also means less incentive to pay money to buy Zen.
2. Using multiple account to get rAD is a very painful operation. You need to pay to equip the new characters (no account bound gear to pass around). You will have hard time to consolidate AD. If you use AH to pass AD, it is a 10% cut. You do much more work and get less return. Running multiple characters in one account is already a hard work. Doing multiple account may be "appealing" in the beginning but that can't last long. At least, most people cannot continue like that. By the way, using multiple account is not something new. When invocation paid AD, it was more or less the norm and people just needed to login, do invocation and logout. That was not much work (comparing with really running a character to do RQ) but that was already painful.
3. I expect people will take "vacation". i.e. you get (say) 300K rAD and then take the "vacation" for 2 days. The vacation can be doing something that does not give you rAD or just not playing the game.
4. The cap is not a cap for earning rAD. You can earn a million a day if you want to. The cap is how much you can refine per day. Taking a "vacation" will take care of it. Yes, it takes longer but is it the end of the world?
Post edited by plasticbat on
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
Personally, I like playing the game and wouldn't mind it switching over to a subscription based service or at least start having premium paid content if that is what it takes to keep the game alive.
NO! Absolutely not. This is how it is in DDO and that just fractures the player community. It's a HAMSTER pain in the butt to have to check if the people you want to group with own the content you want to run.
Payday 2 has a really practical solution to this, BTW: If you haven't purchased a particular paid-content Heist, you can't create lobbies to run it or join lobbies that are running it without being invited.
If you're invited by someone already inside, you can join anything, and run anything, regardless of whether or not you've paid to unlock it.
And you can always use your paid-content characters and weapons in any game at any time.
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micky1p00Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,594Arc User
I could not disagree more. This change is actually directed at people willing to spend a large amount of time working hard to make ad. Making more than 100k ad is not fast or easy work. Small players will also be punished with these new changes they will only be able to get 20k RAD(t1 & t2 random) and that is not a smart move.
EDIT: Not to mention the people that was tricked into buying campaign tokens that are now worthless to them since most alt's is useless now. a funny thing since we still get supposed alt friendly (1hour a week) campaigns.
I don't see the 20K RAD as being an issue since most new players (there are no small players) only have 2 characters. They can earn 50K AD each or 100K collectively. As of now they can only produce 72K collectively.
Now I never said it was "easy" and more to my point again making AD is not my goal here. I play games for amusement. As for alts and campaign tokens... I bought 1 Elemental Evil campaign token after my character Silvane Stardust got done (95%) and was 1 short of the goal on corrupted text in the Fiery Pit. She (I) did the whole campaign as all 8 of mine have done. Yes, I ran all 8 through EE and all campaigns. I don't use campaign tokens to bypass playing the game. All eight characters do it on their own. I don't and never will run a Astral Diamond farming army. My characters are not toons or alts to me, they are the collective of my works, they embody an overall story. Dungeon and Dragons isn't all about stats, score, and gold, but who has a great story and the grand adventure. It is obvious to me that our goals don't align.
With all due respect, but your play style is not comparable to vat majority of the player base. You don't do end-game, nor significantly progress in terms of gear and play style. At the same time MMOs live on the premise of endless progress and obsoleting gear while making a new shiny for the new difficulty - the endless hamster wheel. So in this case I believe that your personal expiriance is not applicable to the bigger issue when it's in such extreme minority.
PS. I'm not sure what are those numbers, the 50k, 100k, 20k, 72k How they were calculated?
I was pondering, what about a merchant's fee for using the ZAX unidirectionally (AD to Zen)? like a 2% charge e.g. at the current rate of 1:500, to purchase 1 Zen it would cost the buyer 510 AD (rounded up to the nearest integer), whereby 500 AD goes to the Zen seller, and 10 AD is consumed by the ZAX. The ZAX is a very useful feature for all players, but there is no fee for using it. This would be an easy to implement AD sink, make exchanging Zen more attractive rather than the other way around, and at 2% should not significantly hinder the ability to purchase Zen items via the ZAX. However, it could be a slippery slope in 'taxing' the AD. It could be trialled to see if it would work, or abandoned just as quickly if there was too much of a backlash i.e. if people voted with their feet and left the game.
Discuss.
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Yeah, it's not going to be a popular thing by any stretch of imagination. I was hesitant to write it down.. But do I want to see the ZAX improved? Yes.
that is not the way to do it. personally I think the mechanics of the zax are fine as they are. the zax isn't the problem.
I dilsike the thouht of witnessing the next wave of player leaving this game due to poorly thought changes/"improvements" by the company. They really need to think 3 times before doing impactfull changes to this game. Transferring AD to another account? Buy smops, gmops etc. from the store, change AD for Zen buy wards for Zen, buy equip/gear in the AH, there are ways to solve that issue. Honestly I would never walk that way, but I am pretty sure some will do so. Anyway, if content fails or player get too bored (a far more significant issue atm) they will step out with or without 100k rAD cap, that´s true.
@noworries#8859 I have a question about the shared bank. will this shared bank be part of the regular bank you can summon wiht vip? will the mechanics be if I want to put 20 mil in the bank it won't be easily accessed by accident from any toon i'm on, say doing professions or what not?
if so I'm really excited about that change because currently the only way to get ad off your person is to put it in the exchange. and if you have too muhc you must actually buy zen even if you don't want to otherwise risking losing large sums by accident. or not being able to just consolidate across toons.
Second, the Zen market is clutter with AD exchange due to players needing to use the system to transfer AD between characters. Adding AD to the shared bank will remove some of those exchanges that are in your back log.
Player transfers between characters are usually done at 50:1 and not left in the exchange longer than it takes to put the sale up, cancel it, switch to the character getting the AD and withdrawing it.
you don't even have to do that. put the sale up for 50 to 1. take it down immediately and boom it's in a shared spot for all yoru toons or you can leave the balance there to be accessed as needed.
Personally, I like playing the game and wouldn't mind it switching over to a subscription based service or at least start having premium paid content if that is what it takes to keep the game alive.
NO! Absolutely not. This is how it is in DDO and that just fractures the player community. It's a HAMSTER pain in the butt to have to check if the people you want to group with own the content you want to run.
Also, as far as the subscription-based service idea, that's what buying VIP is for. I already purchase VIP, am rank 12, and will be purchasing additional VIP time next month as the amount of time I still have left is growing short (and I value the VIP benefits). If you force people to pay to play the game, you're going to dramatically reduce the number of people playing this game. The number of players is this game's primary strength.
I don't think anyone has that kind of subscription in mind. I personally envision a vip plus type thing that you pay 10 bucks a month for.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,453Arc User
@noworries#8859 I have a question about the shared bank. will this shared bank be part of the regular bank you can summon wiht vip? will the mechanics be if I want to put 20 mil in the bank it won't be easily accessed by accident from any toon i'm on, say doing professions or what not?
if so I'm really excited about that change because currently the only way to get ad off your person is to put it in the exchange. and if you have too muhc you must actually buy zen even if you don't want to otherwise risking losing large sums by accident. or not being able to just consolidate across toons.
1. I expect it is part of the regular bank like where your gold is shared. 2. It really does not matter what Zax rate you put in. If you put in 500:1 and you get Zen before you cancel it, I would say "you lucky sun of the gun."
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
The change is good. It will not impact new players, they have at most 2 character slots and won't exceed 72k per day anyhow in the current system, for them, it is technically a buff (now they can reach 100k). However, it probably won't do enough. The problem is AD in exceeds AD out and this problem needs to be resolved. This change also will not effect the mega rich. Rich players do not run dungeons for AD, they play the market and craft. In fact, rich players probably destroy more ad in a day then most individual players earn from running dungeons in a day, its just that the number of people destroying AD is far outweighed by the number of people creating it.
What we need, in addition to this change, is more AD sinks. My advice is to capitalize on 3 things. The first is cubes of augmentation (remove 400 from every stat on every piece of gear, except hp, where you remove 1600) and then add that as an extra stat on every piece of gear that rolls between 100-400 (or 400-1600). For those chasing optimal stats on their gear, they will delete a lot of ad to get good rolls. Even people who would be ok with just an "ok" roll (above 300) would delete a fair amount of AD to get it.
My second suggestion would be to professions reagents in the wondrous bazaar for masterworks that are required for major steps (for example if terebinth was a wb only item that cost 20k ad), This would delete a massive amount of ad every time an item is crafted.
My third suggestion is to add some legendary chase items which are super hard to obtain and akin to the legendary items in WoW, with quests associated with them which can be seen as status items. For example, an unbound version of a tool which acts like the forgehammer (mythic tool for all professions) which you would craft through many steps to end at the final product. It could start with say parts posted on the auction house by dev accounts once every so often with a buyout of 100M and no minimum bid (I can guarantee crafters will pay that much for such a tool, that much has already been spent on hammers and this is better than a hammer). Once the raw parts have been acquired there could then be a "reforging" process which could require astronomical amounts of materials. All in all, you could probably remove ~1 billion ad from each such status item and players who are really after such items would go for them.
For a moderator, she's out of the loop on this game.
Apparently buying legendary dragon keys for certain end game dungeons and running them a lot and sinking your time into and gaining salvage to refine AD or sinking your time into running RQ's for rAD is her idea of items coming out of "thin air."
Its kind of insulting to see that is how a moderator looks at your time in the game. Nothing in this game just comes out of thin air, you are either investing your time/money or both. It just seems you agree with whatever the devs do and that's your choice but don't act as if players are doing nothing with their time and magically gaining items/ad.
As pointed out rAD only comes from Randoms and salvage.
Playing the AH just moves AD from one account to another with a small amount permanently removed from the economy. It does not "make" any new AD.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
The problem isn't with AD. The problem is what people do with their AD.
People with a lot of AD are using it to purchase Zen.
People who purchase Zen with AD aren't purchasing Zen with real money.
Exactly where is the Zen coming from that people are buying with AD? The only Zen brought into the economy that wasn't bought with money was from the Arc quests, which has been disabled for a while now.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,158Arc User
you don't even have to do that. put the sale up for 50 to 1. take it down immediately and boom it's in a shared spot for all yoru toons or you can leave the balance there to be accessed as needed.
Yes, but trying to move more AD around has to account for the AD that is already in the holding account in the ZAX. Far easier (to me) to get the AD out of holding and where I want/need it before trying to move more around.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
The problem isn't with AD. The problem is what people do with their AD.
People with a lot of AD are using it to purchase Zen.
People who purchase Zen with AD aren't purchasing Zen with real money.
Exactly where is the Zen coming from that people are buying with AD? The only Zen brought into the economy that wasn't bought with money was from the Arc quests, which has been disabled for a while now.
I may have completely inaccurate information, but I've heard rumors that Cryptic has had to "supplement" the amount of Zen available on top of the amount of Zen purchased. If that is true, the question then becomes how much are they supporting the Zen exchange market?
If that info is incorrect, however, you are completely right. All Zax exchanges are transfers of previously purchased Zen with real money. And if it is, then this game is on pretty stable financial ground (in all likelihood).
The problem isn't with AD. The problem is what people do with their AD.
People with a lot of AD are using it to purchase Zen.
People who purchase Zen with AD aren't purchasing Zen with real money.
If people aren't purchasing Zen with real money, Cryptic has a cash flow problem.
If Cryptic has a cash flow problem, they go bankrupt.
People can scream about the devs being unfair and that this is just a "cash grab" all they want, but they need to remember that while this game is "free to play," it isn't "free to make."
If players have no incentive to spend real money to support the game they say they love, the devs will have no ability to continue making the game.
Personally, I like playing the game and wouldn't mind it switching over to a subscription based service or at least start having premium paid content if that is what it takes to keep the game alive.</blockquote
I agree. I paid for several level 70 toons so that I could use them to earn ads in RQs. 150K a day running all 7 with a few more runs with my TR main to meet that goal. That would over time enable me to buy some decent enchants etc to empower my original HR toon that I find more fun. Now...all that is gone and it totally sucks. Not all of us can run tong etc over n over as those of us with more $ than time don't have a posse to always call up to run them
I do not find the activity of "change character" and repeating crafting actions over and over in leadership just to spit out rps to sell valued gameplay. I really do like just playing the game but with toons with power and that req's AD's.
Anyways, I agree, if the investors want more money, let us buy everything from the zen store. Those of us with more money than time will surely spend it and those with more time to play will surely appreciate us doing so for the investment it makes into something they have vested time in.
Make available level 70 toons with options to pay on a scalable way higher Item level toons, all the way to max, and offer the ability to select those enchants once we have paid for that level of toon power.
Only those that really enjoy playing the game will pay, the rest can continue to run 52 toons on leadership or playing the AH market or whatever; at least those of us that want to PLAY with POWER can and not be trying to do so in the muck of this games economic goofyness
maybe it makes sense to make a bonus to AD global to the account depending on the number of characters on the account? for example, there are 2 characters on the account. they have a maximum of 100k on each bonus AD. the account can be a maximum of 200k bonus, but you can use all this bonus on one character when you get AA. it would be convenient.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,453Arc User
maybe it makes sense to make a bonus to AD global to the account depending on the number of characters on the account? for example, there are 2 characters on the account. they have a maximum of 100k on each bonus AD. the account can be a maximum of 200k bonus, but you can use all this bonus on one character when you get AA. it would be convenient.
They want to limit AD production and what you proposed is to increase AD production. Right now, it is 32K per character. You are asking to make it 100K per character.
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Also, as far as the subscription-based service idea, that's what buying VIP is for. I already purchase VIP, am rank 12, and will be purchasing additional VIP time next month as the amount of time I still have left is growing short (and I value the VIP benefits). If you force people to pay to play the game, you're going to dramatically reduce the number of people playing this game. The number of players is this game's primary strength.
No one said it is related to bots. On the contrary, it was clearly said that it's not because of bots.
More so numbers for consoles were provided which are gaining on PC in therms of inflation and it's not the bots.
For better or worse, these are economical changes, and aimed at all players, humans and non-humans alike.
As far as my numbers are concerned, I don't dare stand by them since they were just the roughest possible estimate when I posted them, but no one else was putting any out there. In the absence of a sonic screwdriver, a butterknife will have to do. I'm not interested in defending them, but I'll show you where I got them since you asked.
They were based on the disparity of RAD earned by 2-4 character players who currently run both random queues as well as players making up to 300,000 RAD a day - with what they would get after the changes if they continued to run both random queues or simply reached the 100K cap (proposed daily rq RAD/RAD currently earned in rqs, and 100k cap/current RAD earnings) - averages out to be around 60% and 30% respectively, but the top earners may have a larger impact on the exchange. I don't know, but I do realize it's more complicated than that. I was only interested in some kind of figures to look at, and I'm no brilliant economist, so I had to make do with stick figure mathematics.
So with this severe drop in AD, imagining that most players made less than 300,000 RAD a day, without taking any other variables into consideration, it's easy to imagine that the AD would increase in value at a commensurate rate - which is overly idealistic. There's no way just because players are earning 70% less AD, that it would be worth 70% more. I know that. There are too many other factors involved. So because I wanted some kind of figure to look at, I suggested 60% as one extreme (a fevered, fervent prayer if you wish), and 40% as the more conservative extreme - trying to take into account those extreme outliers who run characters in the double digits along with the vast numbers of players who currently only earn a few random queues worth of RAD these days. But considering all the other ways that AD is earned, and that players will simply turn to methods of earning straight up AD, 40% was too high - even 30% would have been way too generous.
But whatever. Setting aside the squawking of the Chicken Little chorus, the value of AD will rise at some point- if only temporarily. It has to. By how much. 0.1%? - that's overly pessimistic. 30%? - that's probably overly optimistic.
Again - I'm not interested in defending these figures - they're inaccurate, but they help me understand the concept even if only in a vague, limited way.
They use to have the wards in Trade Bars at one time, but moved them to the zen market. Once again I agree this was a bad move, I believe motivation was the knowledge people could just buy them with AD and not spending cash in the game. And coalescent wards are the "magic key" for any upgrade. There is little I care to purchase at all in the zen market. Foundry authors have said, if they would focus on Foundry repairs and add zen items or better yet a "Foundry Zen market tab" many of us would invest. (e.g. You want the dragon pack? 2000 zen and you get all the dragons just for your Foundry missions.) This notion might not work any more, since most of the well paid members left about 6 mods ago. Some were actual medical professionals, educators, and engineers. The gold standard should have been followed on day 1, STO and CO don't suffer these same issues. I can go there now and get lock box keys in the AH for 80 to 100 G. While it is not easy to get 100 G in the game the idea is their ZAX is trading far below the 500 and sometimes in the off season falls below 400.
While I don't believe this 100K cap or the other changes will fix anything, I also don't see this as the end of the world either.
Players sitting in a chair, relogging all day and matching their account logins from a chart to the left (or right) of their monitor with the adaequat account.
Maybe it´s a way to increase the "number of player" in theory by boosting the number of accounts into the sky.
Headline: "NWO a forgotten mmo monitored an increasing number of player mid of 2018 -> 500%+ <- awesome!! "
I do not refine high ammounts of AD a day, it won´t hurt my gameplay that much.
This change will not get player to spend money for zen, it will lead to a faster backstep from this game by larger ammounts of player I am pretty sure.
A big chunk of player allready can´t participate in endcontent for variable reasons, those ones who stick with Profession might have no problems too, but the ones in the mid will have no AD to buy crafted item nor have the drops from endcontent to gear or sell stuff, since they are capped.
I think this disbalances the game more than it helps in the end.
Those that at end-game, and get salvage as by product of their runs will mostly not do it.
Those that are not end-game and RQing for their life, will be more hit by RQ and seals change, though there you get more in less time but then you are stuck, so they will mostly just do the RQ, perhaps join some FBI or something and maybe get to 100k or maybe not. More likely not. And just finish for the day.
ofcourse it's not black and white and there is all the between, and ofc, it's a guess, but realistically, the population is not that hard-core, and the average player will just play an hour less than go through all the hoops to make more accounts and make them viable to run several Random Queues.
Now I never said it was "easy" and more to my point again making AD is not my goal here. I play games for amusement. As for alts and campaign tokens... I bought 1 Elemental Evil campaign token after my character Silvane Stardust got done (95%) and was 1 short of the goal on corrupted text in the Fiery Pit. She (I) did the whole campaign as all 8 of mine have done. Yes, I ran all 8 through EE and all campaigns. I don't use campaign tokens to bypass playing the game. All eight characters do it on their own. I don't and never will run a Astral Diamond farming army. My characters are not toons or alts to me, they are the collective of my works, they embody an overall story. Dungeon and Dragons isn't all about stats, score, and gold, but who has a great story and the grand adventure. It is obvious to me that our goals don't align.
Plus, creating another account introduces the problem of how do you transfer AD from one account to the other? I suppose you could sell it zen and use the zen on that account to buy things that are not BTA that one would use on one's primary account. That sounds like a lot of work to me.
No, I'll be accepting and living with this change in AD generation rates, even if I end up disliking it.
2. Using multiple account to get rAD is a very painful operation. You need to pay to equip the new characters (no account bound gear to pass around). You will have hard time to consolidate AD. If you use AH to pass AD, it is a 10% cut. You do much more work and get less return. Running multiple characters in one account is already a hard work. Doing multiple account may be "appealing" in the beginning but that can't last long. At least, most people cannot continue like that. By the way, using multiple account is not something new. When invocation paid AD, it was more or less the norm and people just needed to login, do invocation and logout. That was not much work (comparing with really running a character to do RQ) but that was already painful.
3. I expect people will take "vacation". i.e. you get (say) 300K rAD and then take the "vacation" for 2 days. The vacation can be doing something that does not give you rAD or just not playing the game.
4. The cap is not a cap for earning rAD. You can earn a million a day if you want to. The cap is how much you can refine per day. Taking a "vacation" will take care of it. Yes, it takes longer but is it the end of the world?
If you're invited by someone already inside, you can join anything, and run anything, regardless of whether or not you've paid to unlock it.
And you can always use your paid-content characters and weapons in any game at any time.
So in this case I believe that your personal expiriance is not applicable to the bigger issue when it's in such extreme minority.
PS. I'm not sure what are those numbers, the 50k, 100k, 20k, 72k How they were calculated?
that is not the way to do it. personally I think the mechanics of the zax are fine as they are. the zax isn't the problem.
Transferring AD to another account? Buy smops, gmops etc. from the store, change AD for Zen buy wards for Zen, buy equip/gear in the AH, there are ways to solve that issue.
Honestly I would never walk that way, but I am pretty sure some will do so.
Anyway, if content fails or player get too bored (a far more significant issue atm) they will step out with or without 100k rAD cap, that´s true.
if so I'm really excited about that change because currently the only way to get ad off your person is to put it in the exchange. and if you have too muhc you must actually buy zen even if you don't want to otherwise risking losing large sums by accident. or not being able to just consolidate across toons.
2. It really does not matter what Zax rate you put in. If you put in 500:1 and you get Zen before you cancel it, I would say "you lucky sun of the gun."
What we need, in addition to this change, is more AD sinks. My advice is to capitalize on 3 things. The first is cubes of augmentation (remove 400 from every stat on every piece of gear, except hp, where you remove 1600) and then add that as an extra stat on every piece of gear that rolls between 100-400 (or 400-1600). For those chasing optimal stats on their gear, they will delete a lot of ad to get good rolls. Even people who would be ok with just an "ok" roll (above 300) would delete a fair amount of AD to get it.
My second suggestion would be to professions reagents in the wondrous bazaar for masterworks that are required for major steps (for example if terebinth was a wb only item that cost 20k ad), This would delete a massive amount of ad every time an item is crafted.
My third suggestion is to add some legendary chase items which are super hard to obtain and akin to the legendary items in WoW, with quests associated with them which can be seen as status items. For example, an unbound version of a tool which acts like the forgehammer (mythic tool for all professions) which you would craft through many steps to end at the final product. It could start with say parts posted on the auction house by dev accounts once every so often with a buyout of 100M and no minimum bid (I can guarantee crafters will pay that much for such a tool, that much has already been spent on hammers and this is better than a hammer). Once the raw parts have been acquired there could then be a "reforging" process which could require astronomical amounts of materials. All in all, you could probably remove ~1 billion ad from each such status item and players who are really after such items would go for them.
Playing the AH just moves AD from one account to another with a small amount permanently removed from the economy. It does not "make" any new AD.
If that info is incorrect, however, you are completely right. All Zax exchanges are transfers of previously purchased Zen with real money. And if it is, then this game is on pretty stable financial ground (in all likelihood).
for example, there are 2 characters on the account. they have a maximum of 100k on each bonus AD. the account can be a maximum of 200k bonus, but you can use all this bonus on one character when you get AA. it would be convenient.
Right now, it is 32K per character. You are asking to make it 100K per character.
I'll believe it when I see it, even then I still would be suspicious.