I could be wrong, but those AD that you make through other means make their way into the economy via other people refining them? Therefore their future availability to the super shrewd business gurus may be impacted by their reduction in availability?
You are correct but people will get creative as they always did from each rAD nerf. People will find a way. I don't worry about the shortage of AD in the economy at the moment.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I could be wrong, but those AD that you make through other means make their way into the economy via other people refining them? Therefore their future availability to the super shrewd business gurus may be impacted by their reduction in availability?
You are correct but people will get creative as they always did from each rAD nerf. People will find a way. I don't worry about the shortage of AD in the economy at the moment.
But, there isn't one at the moment. That's the problem. They're not moving out of the system, they're moving from player to player at either zero tax or ten percent tax, or being hoarded. That's why PC has a backlog on ZADX, (That and, of course, the small matter of there being nothing worth trading Zen for AD for... which is the actual issue that needs fixing...)
People who are time rich and cash poor generate the AD that gets traded. If the intended outcome of the cap works (and, frankly, I think it creates more problems than it solves) one of those outcomes will be a drop in prices for people who trade goods for AD. Apparently the immediate impact of quantitative tightening will be the value of AD rising through the roof, meaning the prices one can charge for trade goods has to drop. Its bonkers beyond belief (since there are so many fixed price items for which AD are required) but it seems any thought beyond surface scratching, kindergarten accounting matters... It seems like someone is building the fiscal equivalent of Kevin Costner's corn field baseball ground. "If they cap it, equivalence will come..." It won't.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
I could be wrong, but those AD that you make through other means make their way into the economy via other people refining them? Therefore their future availability to the super shrewd business gurus may be impacted by their reduction in availability?
You are correct but people will get creative as they always did from each rAD nerf. People will find a way. I don't worry about the shortage of AD in the economy at the moment.
But, there isn't one at the moment. That's the problem. They're not moving out of the system, they're moving from player to player at either zero tax or ten percent tax, or being hoarded. That's why PC has a backlog on ZADX, (That and, of course, the small matter of there being nothing worth trading Zen for AD for... which is the actual issue that needs fixing...)
People who are time rich and cash poor generate the AD that gets traded. If the intended outcome of the cap works (and, frankly, I think it creates more problems than it solves) one of those outcomes will be a drop in prices for people who trade goods for AD. Apparently the immediate impact of quantitative tightening will be the value of AD rising through the roof, meaning the prices one can charge for trade goods has to drop. Its bonkers beyond belief (since there are so many fixed price items for which AD are required) but it seems any thought beyond surface scratching, kindergarten accounting matters... It seems like someone is building the fiscal equivalent of Kevin Costner's corn field baseball ground. "If they cap it, equivalence will come..." It won't.
If there will be a serious AD shortage, Cryptic will change again. They did the same things many times already. Cut rAD. Increase rAD. Cut rAD. Increase rAD. .... Personally, I don't see this is 'final'. There will be change and more change. They increased rAD 3 to 4 mod in a row. May be this is another cycle.
I have not commented if this change is good or bad. Because for me, (1) I can't foresee. (2) my opinion does not matter. I just get used to this and find a way to deal with it each time. One thing I know is many people will rage quit like the past and that is the ultimate AD/Zen/whatever sink.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
PS4 traded as high as 495 at one point today. I actually got burned a bit - thought I saw an opportunity, but aside from a few meager amounts of Zen scattered here and there, nobody wanted to touch it at that amount.
It's been hanging around in the 80s mostly for the last few days, but it's been pretty sluggish - wondering if it's mostly traders and small purchases. Sometimes you can see the traders at work, jockeying their piles of zen up and down.
At some point people are going to start scrambling to get their AD out, I'd think. Maybe it's already started, and that's why the rate's risen so high?
I could be wrong, but those AD that you make through other means make their way into the economy via other people refining them? Therefore their future availability to the super shrewd business gurus may be impacted by their reduction in availability?
You are correct but people will get creative as they always did from each rAD nerf. People will find a way. I don't worry about the shortage of AD in the economy at the moment.
But, there isn't one at the moment. That's the problem. They're not moving out of the system, they're moving from player to player at either zero tax or ten percent tax, or being hoarded. That's why PC has a backlog on ZADX, (That and, of course, the small matter of there being nothing worth trading Zen for AD for... which is the actual issue that needs fixing...)
People who are time rich and cash poor generate the AD that gets traded. If the intended outcome of the cap works (and, frankly, I think it creates more problems than it solves) one of those outcomes will be a drop in prices for people who trade goods for AD. Apparently the immediate impact of quantitative tightening will be the value of AD rising through the roof, meaning the prices one can charge for trade goods has to drop. Its bonkers beyond belief (since there are so many fixed price items for which AD are required) but it seems any thought beyond surface scratching, kindergarten accounting matters... It seems like someone is building the fiscal equivalent of Kevin Costner's corn field baseball ground. "If they cap it, equivalence will come..." It won't.
If there will be a serious AD shortage, Cryptic will change again. They did the same things many times already. Cut rAD. Increase rAD. Cut rAD. Increase rAD. .... Personally, I don't see this is 'final'. There will be change and more change. They increased rAD 3 to 4 mod in a row. May be this is another cycle.
I have not commented if this change is good or bad. Because for me, (1) I can't foresee. (2) my opinion does not matter. I just get used to this and find a way to deal with it each time. One thing I know is many people will rage quit like the past and that is the ultimate AD/Zen/whatever sink.
But again, the problem isn't how much AD is available. The problem is that there isn't enough Zen being bought and traded on the ZADX. There seems to be a consistent line of thought that fewer new AD will make all AD more valuable. But for that to happen in a meaningful way so as to encourage more people to want to buy it for Zen, there needs to be a better reason than, "some stuff will be cheaper on the AH".
Maybe the reason these cycles keep getting more severe is that they are forever looking for a quick, easy, fix?
Is anyone who buys Zen really more likely to dump 2000 Zen for 800k than 1million when the fixed price of an epic to legendary companion upgrade remains at 1million?
For high ticket items on the AH to become more desirable to Zen buyers the AH price would need to drop by SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than the relative exchange rate drop on the ZADX, and that simply won't happen while there remain fixed price AD marketplaces such as the WB and Companion upgrades and so on.
And I get it, if you don't think your own opinion matters you're hardly going to care about anybody else's, but this is a "Feedback" Forum... so I guess some people will continue to offer their opinions in the hope that a solution that best serves the game might emerge.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
I could be wrong, but those AD that you make through other means make their way into the economy via other people refining them? Therefore their future availability to the super shrewd business gurus may be impacted by their reduction in availability?
You are correct but people will get creative as they always did from each rAD nerf. People will find a way. I don't worry about the shortage of AD in the economy at the moment.
But, there isn't one at the moment. That's the problem. They're not moving out of the system, they're moving from player to player at either zero tax or ten percent tax, or being hoarded. That's why PC has a backlog on ZADX, (That and, of course, the small matter of there being nothing worth trading Zen for AD for... which is the actual issue that needs fixing...)
People who are time rich and cash poor generate the AD that gets traded. If the intended outcome of the cap works (and, frankly, I think it creates more problems than it solves) one of those outcomes will be a drop in prices for people who trade goods for AD. Apparently the immediate impact of quantitative tightening will be the value of AD rising through the roof, meaning the prices one can charge for trade goods has to drop. Its bonkers beyond belief (since there are so many fixed price items for which AD are required) but it seems any thought beyond surface scratching, kindergarten accounting matters... It seems like someone is building the fiscal equivalent of Kevin Costner's corn field baseball ground. "If they cap it, equivalence will come..." It won't.
If there will be a serious AD shortage, Cryptic will change again. They did the same things many times already. Cut rAD. Increase rAD. Cut rAD. Increase rAD. .... Personally, I don't see this is 'final'. There will be change and more change. They increased rAD 3 to 4 mod in a row. May be this is another cycle.
I have not commented if this change is good or bad. Because for me, (1) I can't foresee. (2) my opinion does not matter. I just get used to this and find a way to deal with it each time. One thing I know is many people will rage quit like the past and that is the ultimate AD/Zen/whatever sink.
But again, the problem isn't how much AD is available. The problem is that there isn't enough Zen being bought and traded on the ZADX. There seems to be a consistent line of thought that fewer new AD will make all AD more valuable. But for that to happen in a meaningful way so as to encourage more people to want to buy it for Zen, there needs to be a better reason than, "some stuff will be cheaper on the AH".
Maybe the reason these cycles keep getting more severe is that they are forever looking for a quick, easy, fix?
Is anyone who buys Zen really more likely to dump 2000 Zen for 800k than 1million when the fixed price of an epic to legendary companion upgrade remains at 1million?
For high ticket items on the AH to become more desirable to Zen buyers the AH price would need to drop by SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than the relative exchange rate drop on the ZADX, and that simply won't happen while there remain fixed price AD marketplaces such as the WB and Companion upgrades and so on.
And I get it, if you don't think your own opinion matters you're hardly going to care about anybody else's, but this is a "Feedback" Forum... so I guess some people will continue to offer their opinions in the hope that a solution that best serves the game might emerge.
This change is not about making cash player to buy Zen. This change does not even give any incentive for that. Doing nothing would be better to attract cash player. The volume of Zen selling in Zax seems to be pretty consistent. It is about 1 million Zen per day. My last 3 Zen purchase seems to follow that on the dot. i.e. how much backlog I saw when I posted my purchase and I got mine right on the day I estimated. 12 million backlog, I got the Zen in 12 days. 17 million backog, I get mine in 17 days. If the backlog is lower, I will just get my Zen earlier. I don't expect the Zax will be under 500:1 in PC unless there is a massive rage quit.
If cash player does not want to dump 2000 Zen for 800K AD, the Zax will stay at 500:1.
We will see what will happen.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
if they bta the zen store pres wards and coalwards would it make any changes to the bots in game?
Not at all. Bots seem to live on earning rAD. Then I belive such AD are being sold on different websites you can see on enclave chat spam.
What that could do is actually big hit on big whales. As that would literally kill their main source of profit. That combined with diminishing influx of AD to the system witch is supposed to make ZEN easier to obtain would change a game economy.
Some players here complain that next MOD would be a a start of P2P model, as new or casual players would have to farm a lot more to get AD for they needs. And they seem to be correct. BUT it doesnt have to end like that. If AH prices wont go down thats gona be dead end for that game. But more likely prices would adjust to amounts of rAD players can earn daily. And that would be no different as it is today. And lets be honest - its highly unlikely that AH would go down even more.
Real trouble is - if those changes will work at all, and how much time it would take before those changes will affect the market. Longer it takes more players will quit.
I would like to see a revamp of the wonderous bazaar, introducing the older transmutes of removed armor would be quite a welcome change imo. The tensers disk for instance is a very cool mount but theres no epic version, having a reskin of it at epic with 2k recovery is something i would buy personally. I feel like cosmetic items like reskins, new mounts, transmutes would work out better and be more appealing to spend ur ad on. The tradebar store for instance feature mounts and artifacts from lockboxes at absurd prices and make them unpopular choices for players when theyre cheaper on the ah. Maybe even new armor transmutes for each class or can be used by all classes would be worthwhile. We might have capes and scarves, but wat about cloaks, wings, or even other accessories that can be used as armor transmutes instead of fashion items. Most mounts are reskins, having more unique options as cosmetics would be nice while lockbox mounts would focus more on utility. I would love silly mounts that dont make sense, its why i run around on the pig even tho i have a legendary lion. Imagine having a floating fish just flying through the enclave. Maybe we can even have a thread to see wat players would want to see as new mount introductions, see if u like any of the ideas. I dont mind the 100k rad change much because i dont farm much anymore but i do think if u want to improve the economy u need more desirable ad sinks, ppl pay tons for older transmute making them more available especially in the bazaar would likely take more ad out of the game than the 10% from the ad overtime. @""noworries#8859"
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
one thing i didnt see when in preview was if any "auto refine AD" function was implemented, that would help a lot people that don't play everyday...
PS. i will only be ablle to play in th preview server saturday, so i can't check for the answear myself till there...
That's already a VIP function.
Actually, that's an "everyone" feature, but it's kinda annoying. You have to go like 24 hours without refining your AD, and then the next time you log on, it will auto-refine. It will auto-refine every 24 hours as long as you do not manually do it. The feature doesn't require VIP. It does it for everyone, but most players just click the refine button manually as it's easier than waiting.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
PS4 traded as high as 495 at one point today. I actually got burned a bit - thought I saw an opportunity, but aside from a few meager amounts of Zen scattered here and there, nobody wanted to touch it at that amount.
It's been hanging around in the 80s mostly for the last few days, but it's been pretty sluggish - wondering if it's mostly traders and small purchases. Sometimes you can see the traders at work, jockeying their piles of zen up and down.
At some point people are going to start scrambling to get their AD out, I'd think. Maybe it's already started, and that's why the rate's risen so high?
It has risen on Xbox as well, and I am guessing it is because people are anticipating a Jubilee Zen sale coming.
You are right, there are several reasons being invoking, weeklies etc. I have possibly found another way to reach the 100k ad cap on more than 1 account in the same time, so I am no longer overly bothered about that.
Players will always find a way.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
one thing i didnt see when in preview was if any "auto refine AD" function was implemented, that would help a lot people that don't play everyday...
PS. i will only be ablle to play in th preview server saturday, so i can't check for the answear myself till there...
That's already a VIP function.
Actually, that's an "everyone" feature, but it's kinda annoying. You have to go like 24 hours without refining your AD, and then the next time you log on, it will auto-refine. It will auto-refine every 24 hours as long as you do not manually do it. The feature doesn't require VIP. It does it for everyone, but most players just click the refine button manually as it's easier than waiting.
I think "auto refine AD" of the person originally asked is not this one (the one we always have). I almost never click the refine button. The last time I did probably was over a year ago.
I believe he was asking refine AD automatically everyday without login.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
You are right, there are several reasons being invoking, weeklies etc. I have possibly found another way to reach the 100k ad cap on more than 1 account in the same time, so I am no longer overly bothered about that.
Players will always find a way.
That's true but then the kindergarden crew will again turn that valve hard to the right yet again and again.
I'm a cash player and I cannot believe I paid what I did lately after returning and seeing this new RQ angle for ads offering a recognizable and enjoyable sense of player growth which in this game equals ad growth.
That wont happen (laying out irl cash) again with this drunkin game's economic enslaving instability and gone will be my level 12 vip once it runs out. Screw me once and maybe twice but ...not again
one thing i didnt see when in preview was if any "auto refine AD" function was implemented, that would help a lot people that don't play everyday...
PS. i will only be ablle to play in th preview server saturday, so i can't check for the answear myself till there...
That's already a VIP function.
Actually, that's an "everyone" feature, but it's kinda annoying. You have to go like 24 hours without refining your AD, and then the next time you log on, it will auto-refine. It will auto-refine every 24 hours as long as you do not manually do it. The feature doesn't require VIP. It does it for everyone, but most players just click the refine button manually as it's easier than waiting.
My bad. I was confusing it with the way STO does it, which is different for subscribing players than free-to-play players.
PS4 traded as high as 495 at one point today. I actually got burned a bit - thought I saw an opportunity, but aside from a few meager amounts of Zen scattered here and there, nobody wanted to touch it at that amount.
It's been hanging around in the 80s mostly for the last few days, but it's been pretty sluggish - wondering if it's mostly traders and small purchases. Sometimes you can see the traders at work, jockeying their piles of zen up and down.
At some point people are going to start scrambling to get their AD out, I'd think. Maybe it's already started, and that's why the rate's risen so high?
right now everyone is preparing for founders day. there is going to be a huge sale on things in the zen store. so everyone starts converting all their ad to zen for it. this is one of the times of the year when zen is guaranteed to be at it's highest. this is also when things are going to be their cheapest in the ah so it's also a good time to have a lot of ad on hand. everyone is going to be opening tons of lockboxes and buying things from zen store to sell on ah.
I could be wrong, but those AD that you make through other means make their way into the economy via other people refining them? Therefore their future availability to the super shrewd business gurus may be impacted by their reduction in availability?
You are correct but people will get creative as they always did from each rAD nerf. People will find a way. I don't worry about the shortage of AD in the economy at the moment.
But, there isn't one at the moment. That's the problem. They're not moving out of the system, they're moving from player to player at either zero tax or ten percent tax, or being hoarded. That's why PC has a backlog on ZADX, (That and, of course, the small matter of there being nothing worth trading Zen for AD for... which is the actual issue that needs fixing...)
People who are time rich and cash poor generate the AD that gets traded. If the intended outcome of the cap works (and, frankly, I think it creates more problems than it solves) one of those outcomes will be a drop in prices for people who trade goods for AD. Apparently the immediate impact of quantitative tightening will be the value of AD rising through the roof, meaning the prices one can charge for trade goods has to drop. Its bonkers beyond belief (since there are so many fixed price items for which AD are required) but it seems any thought beyond surface scratching, kindergarten accounting matters... It seems like someone is building the fiscal equivalent of Kevin Costner's corn field baseball ground. "If they cap it, equivalence will come..." It won't.
If there will be a serious AD shortage, Cryptic will change again. They did the same things many times already. Cut rAD. Increase rAD. Cut rAD. Increase rAD. .... Personally, I don't see this is 'final'. There will be change and more change. They increased rAD 3 to 4 mod in a row. May be this is another cycle.
I have not commented if this change is good or bad. Because for me, (1) I can't foresee. (2) my opinion does not matter. I just get used to this and find a way to deal with it each time. One thing I know is many people will rage quit like the past and that is the ultimate AD/Zen/whatever sink.
But again, the problem isn't how much AD is available. The problem is that there isn't enough Zen being bought and traded on the ZADX. There seems to be a consistent line of thought that fewer new AD will make all AD more valuable. But for that to happen in a meaningful way so as to encourage more people to want to buy it for Zen, there needs to be a better reason than, "some stuff will be cheaper on the AH".
Maybe the reason these cycles keep getting more severe is that they are forever looking for a quick, easy, fix?
Is anyone who buys Zen really more likely to dump 2000 Zen for 800k than 1million when the fixed price of an epic to legendary companion upgrade remains at 1million?
For high ticket items on the AH to become more desirable to Zen buyers the AH price would need to drop by SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than the relative exchange rate drop on the ZADX, and that simply won't happen while there remain fixed price AD marketplaces such as the WB and Companion upgrades and so on.
And I get it, if you don't think your own opinion matters you're hardly going to care about anybody else's, but this is a "Feedback" Forum... so I guess some people will continue to offer their opinions in the hope that a solution that best serves the game might emerge.
This change is not about making cash player to buy Zen. This change does not even give any incentive for that. Doing nothing would be better to attract cash player. The volume of Zen selling in Zax seems to be pretty consistent. It is about 1 million Zen per day. My last 3 Zen purchase seems to follow that on the dot. i.e. how much backlog I saw when I posted my purchase and I got mine right on the day I estimated. 12 million backlog, I got the Zen in 12 days. 17 million backog, I get mine in 17 days. If the backlog is lower, I will just get my Zen earlier. I don't expect the Zax will be under 500:1 in PC unless there is a massive rage quit.
If cash player does not want to dump 2000 Zen for 800K AD, the Zax will stay at 500:1.
We will see what will happen.
It seems a very strange business decision, to go after the good will of the highest 3-5% of the game's RAD earners for literally no tangible commercial benefit.
If reducing the number of new RAD into the system is going to have zero impact on the value of AD to Zen, Zero impact on the value of AD to Wondrous Bazaar, zero impact on the value of AD to companion upgrades, and next to no impact on the value of AD to high ticket items on the AH, I literally don't understand the purpose. Unless its just some ego mad attempt to stamp down on players who take advantage of what the game offers, to let them know who's boss.
I could understand the reasoning behind, if not the method of, such a stringent change if it were to drive sales. It being a business after all, and businesses normally tend toward making changes to the operating model to either recover, or increase income.
The idea that there is no commercial consideration behind this is... I dunno... crazy. There are fairly simple improvements they could make to the game that would improve the player experience and probably increase revenue, if only by a small amount, so it seems odd that they would fix on a change that literally only seems to punish a small section of the player base for having the temerity to effectively run content on three or more characters.
It seems a very strange business decision, to go after the good will of the highest 3-5% of the game's RAD earners for literally no tangible commercial benefit.
If reducing the number of new RAD into the system is going to have zero impact on the value of AD to Zen, Zero impact on the value of AD to Wondrous Bazaar, zero impact on the value of AD to companion upgrades, and next to no impact on the value of AD to high ticket items on the AH, I literally don't understand the purpose. Unless its just some ego mad attempt to stamp down on players who take advantage of what the game offers, to let them know who's boss.
I could understand the reasoning behind, if not the method of, such a stringent change if it were to drive sales. It being a business after all, and businesses normally tend toward making changes to the operating model to either recover, or increase income.
The idea that there is no commercial consideration behind this is... I dunno... crazy. There are fairly simple improvements they could make to the game that would improve the player experience and probably increase revenue, if only by a small amount, so it seems odd that they would fix on a change that literally only seems to punish a small section of the player base for having the temerity to effectively run content on three or more characters.
It certainly feels and is perceived by me anyways as if that's all this is 100%, - the act of a petty vid gaming tyrrant re what you mentioned about ad gain and squashing it. The zax exchange? hardly We all know that they realize the effect it will have and if it was not designed for that effect, more information, much more, would have also been simultaneously offered to preserve the enthusiasm many of us HAD until the NW Ghetto was announced.
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
claiming it will have zero effect is just not correct.
It will reduce the "disposable" income of many players, which should reduce the AH price of some items...specifically various unbound dungeon drops and masterwork items.
I am not personally bothered by the change - while I do have multiple alts (16 in total) I do not use them to run RQs for AD, and 100K RAD per day is more than enough for me.
However, I do think this will produce a healthier economy and also improve the RQ experience of many players, as fewer people will be running multiple undergeared alts through them just for the AD.
However, I do think this will produce a healthier economy and also improve the RQ experience of many players, as fewer people will be running multiple undergeared alts through them just for the AD.
I doubt that. @noworries mentioned that numbmber of AD in a system increased by 75% within 2 years - thats a lot. Those AD remain stashed somwhere. I think I wont be wrong if I say that most of it is in heands of just w few players, who are able to control the market. Pretty much like irl - wealth is being acumulated by the few. Of curse we do not know the amount of AD stashed that way, but numbers must be huge. Now, even if that change will reduce a influx of fresh AD to the system, it wont flush out those already stashed - its not important how much new AD enters a system, while there is huge overfill already. Its importan how much vanish out if it. So, without serious sinks it wont work, as AD would simply criculate between players.
That change gona punish a new players, they still needs tons of RP and marks for their enchants and quipment upgrades - and those are for most part fixed price items. Yea sure, they may be able to buy a companion cheaper but still needs fixed amount of AD to upgrade it and so on.
Such changes should be made as a whole system rework. Not seprated actions witch relatively brings more harm then effect. This new experiment may even work, but no1 can tell how log it will take before we gona see a AH changes, if any, and how many players game gona quit before that heppens.
And no, RQ experience would be even worse. Bots remain in place, and some of the players would still be grinding AD with RQ - now even harder. Some will quit, some will make another accounts. So if you will notice any changes those gona be an effect of a new tier system than rAD refine cap.
I would like to know.....these ad changes are incoming no doubt.....so WHY is PW/Cryptic still allowing customers to purchase up to 50 characters per account ?
Why do people even need 50 character slots ? I know, I know what they have been used for by players....that's not the point. My point is if alt's are essentially going to be rendered useless (compared to the current system) why keep selling the character slots ?
I am leveling up leadership on most of my alts. Less AD being able to earned will mean less AD donated to stronghold coffers. That and with the elimination of AD vouchers will make it much more difficult for the smaller guilds to advance. Unless you have an army of members that are able to make AD crates (Level 23 Leadership) building guilds will be much slower.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
However, I do think this will produce a healthier economy and also improve the RQ experience of many players, as fewer people will be running multiple undergeared alts through them just for the AD.
I doubt that. @noworries mentioned that numbmber of AD in a system increased by 75% within 2 years - thats a lot. Those AD remain stashed somwhere. I think I wont be wrong if I say that most of it is in heands of just w few players, who are able to control the market. Pretty much like irl - wealth is being acumulated by the few. Of curse we do not know the amount of AD stashed that way, but numbers must be huge. Now, even if that change will reduce a influx of fresh AD to the system, it wont flush out those already stashed - its not important how much new AD enters a system, while there is huge overfill already. Its importan how much vanish out if it. So, without serious sinks it wont work, as AD would simply criculate between players.
Circulation of AD is an AD sink. Every time you "pass" AD to another player 10% is gone. If one stash AD and never use it, that AD is not exactly in the economy. If one uses his stashed AD to "control" the market, every purchase takes 10% of that AD away.
That change gona punish a new players, they still needs tons of RP and marks for their enchants and quipment upgrades - and those are for most part fixed price items. Yea sure, they may be able to buy a companion cheaper but still needs fixed amount of AD to upgrade it and so on.
RP mostly is not fixed cost. Lower level Mark is not fixed cost. Higher level mark is. Right at this moment, RP cost in AH drop 40% in general because of 2xRefining stone. If one actually looks carefully, certain "not so obvious" RP item cost dropped 70% last night.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I am leveling up leadership on most of my alts. Less AD being able to earned will mean less AD donated to stronghold coffers. That and with the elimination of AD vouchers will make it much more difficult for the smaller guilds to advance. Unless you have an army of members that are able to make AD crates (Level 23 Leadership) building guilds will be much slower.
Maybe. I'm leading a small guild right now and the bottleneck was (and still is) Treasures of Tyranny, followed by Frozen Treasures and then Influence.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,223Arc User
I would like to know.....these ad changes are incoming no doubt.....so WHY is PW/Cryptic still allowing customers to purchase up to 50 characters per account ?
Why do people even need 50 character slots ? I know, I know what they have been used for by players....that's not the point. My point is if alt's are essentially going to be rendered useless (compared to the current system) why keep selling the character slots ?
Shady......period.
Character slot is not useless and was not meant to be used to do RQ. "New" people thinks that was the reason. People has 50 characters way before Queue gave rAD. Yes, queue giving rAD actually is "new".
Reasons of character slots that will still apply are:
1. storage (the cheapest storage solution in the game) 2. leadership (and profession) 3. invocation AD bonus 4. Event prizes (tons of freebie implies AD) 5. invocation -> c-ward, p-ward, .... 6. no cool down for RP drop (if you switch among characters every day).
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
I am leveling up leadership on most of my alts. Less AD being able to earned will mean less AD donated to stronghold coffers. That and with the elimination of AD vouchers will make it much more difficult for the smaller guilds to advance. Unless you have an army of members that are able to make AD crates (Level 23 Leadership) building guilds will be much slower.
Maybe. I'm leading a small guild right now and the bottleneck was (and still is) Treasures of Tyranny, followed by Frozen Treasures and then Influence.
Fortunately we are in a good alliance that runs weekly Dragonflights. That and we get a fairly good building discount. We are building Guild Hall 11 and almost have enough to go to level 12. But then we have to upgrade 9 buildings to level 6 and that will cost us around 5,500 AD chests (5,500,000 AD).
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,095Arc User
Character slot is not useless and was not meant to be used to do RQ. "New" people thinks that was the reason. People has 50 characters way before Queue gave rAD. Yes, queue giving rAD actually is "new".
Reasons of character slots that will still apply are:
1. storage (the cheapest storage solution in the game) 2. leadership (and profession) 3. invocation AD bonus 4. Event prizes (tons of freebie implies AD) 5. invocation -> c-ward, p-ward, .... 6. no cool down for RP drop (if you switch among characters every day).
You left out "because Cryptic makes money selling them".
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
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People will find a way. I don't worry about the shortage of AD in the economy at the moment.
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But, there isn't one at the moment. That's the problem.They're not moving out of the system, they're moving from player to player at either zero tax or ten percent tax, or being hoarded. That's why PC has a backlog on ZADX, (That and, of course, the small matter of there being nothing worth trading Zen for AD for... which is the actual issue that needs fixing...)
People who are time rich and cash poor generate the AD that gets traded. If the intended outcome of the cap works (and, frankly, I think it creates more problems than it solves) one of those outcomes will be a drop in prices for people who trade goods for AD.
Apparently the immediate impact of quantitative tightening will be the value of AD rising through the roof, meaning the prices one can charge for trade goods has to drop.
Its bonkers beyond belief (since there are so many fixed price items for which AD are required) but it seems any thought beyond surface scratching, kindergarten accounting matters...
It seems like someone is building the fiscal equivalent of Kevin Costner's corn field baseball ground.
"If they cap it, equivalence will come..."
It won't.
I have not commented if this change is good or bad. Because for me, (1) I can't foresee. (2) my opinion does not matter. I just get used to this and find a way to deal with it each time. One thing I know is many people will rage quit like the past and that is the ultimate AD/Zen/whatever sink.
I actually got burned a bit - thought I saw an opportunity, but aside from a few meager amounts of Zen scattered here and there, nobody wanted to touch it at that amount.
It's been hanging around in the 80s mostly for the last few days, but it's been pretty sluggish - wondering if it's mostly traders and small purchases. Sometimes you can see the traders at work, jockeying their piles of zen up and down.
At some point people are going to start scrambling to get their AD out, I'd think. Maybe it's already started, and that's why the rate's risen so high?
The problem is that there isn't enough Zen being bought and traded on the ZADX.
There seems to be a consistent line of thought that fewer new AD will make all AD more valuable.
But for that to happen in a meaningful way so as to encourage more people to want to buy it for Zen, there needs to be a better reason than, "some stuff will be cheaper on the AH".
Maybe the reason these cycles keep getting more severe is that they are forever looking for a quick, easy, fix?
Is anyone who buys Zen really more likely to dump 2000 Zen for 800k than 1million when the fixed price of an epic to legendary companion upgrade remains at 1million?
For high ticket items on the AH to become more desirable to Zen buyers the AH price would need to drop by SIGNIFICANTLY MORE than the relative exchange rate drop on the ZADX, and that simply won't happen while there remain fixed price AD marketplaces such as the WB and Companion upgrades and so on.
And I get it, if you don't think your own opinion matters you're hardly going to care about anybody else's, but this is a "Feedback" Forum... so I guess some people will continue to offer their opinions in the hope that a solution that best serves the game might emerge.
If cash player does not want to dump 2000 Zen for 800K AD, the Zax will stay at 500:1.
We will see what will happen.
PS. i will only be ablle to play in th preview server saturday, so i can't check for the answear myself till there...
What that could do is actually big hit on big whales. As that would literally kill their main source of profit. That combined with diminishing influx of AD to the system witch is supposed to make ZEN easier to obtain would change a game economy.
Some players here complain that next MOD would be a a start of P2P model, as new or casual players would have to farm a lot more to get AD for they needs. And they seem to be correct. BUT it doesnt have to end like that. If AH prices wont go down thats gona be dead end for that game. But more likely prices would adjust to amounts of rAD players can earn daily. And that would be no different as it is today. And lets be honest - its highly unlikely that AH would go down even more.
Real trouble is - if those changes will work at all, and how much time it would take before those changes will affect the market. Longer it takes more players will quit.
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You are right, there are several reasons being invoking, weeklies etc. I have possibly found another way to reach the 100k ad cap on more than 1 account in the same time, so I am no longer overly bothered about that.
Players will always find a way.
I believe he was asking refine AD automatically everyday without login.
I'm a cash player and I cannot believe I paid what I did lately after returning and seeing this new RQ angle for ads offering a recognizable and enjoyable sense of player growth which in this game equals ad growth.
That wont happen (laying out irl cash) again with this drunkin game's economic enslaving instability and gone will be my level 12 vip once it runs out. Screw me once and maybe twice but ...not again
If reducing the number of new RAD into the system is going to have zero impact on the value of AD to Zen, Zero impact on the value of AD to Wondrous Bazaar, zero impact on the value of AD to companion upgrades, and next to no impact on the value of AD to high ticket items on the AH, I literally don't understand the purpose. Unless its just some ego mad attempt to stamp down on players who take advantage of what the game offers, to let them know who's boss.
I could understand the reasoning behind, if not the method of, such a stringent change if it were to drive sales.
It being a business after all, and businesses normally tend toward making changes to the operating model to either recover, or increase income.
The idea that there is no commercial consideration behind this is... I dunno... crazy.
There are fairly simple improvements they could make to the game that would improve the player experience and probably increase revenue, if only by a small amount, so it seems odd that they would fix on a change that literally only seems to punish a small section of the player base for having the temerity to effectively run content on three or more characters.
It seems a very strange business decision, to go after the good will of the highest 3-5% of the game's RAD earners for literally no tangible commercial benefit.
If reducing the number of new RAD into the system is going to have zero impact on the value of AD to Zen, Zero impact on the value of AD to Wondrous Bazaar, zero impact on the value of AD to companion upgrades, and next to no impact on the value of AD to high ticket items on the AH, I literally don't understand the purpose. Unless its just some ego mad attempt to stamp down on players who take advantage of what the game offers, to let them know who's boss.
I could understand the reasoning behind, if not the method of, such a stringent change if it were to drive sales.
It being a business after all, and businesses normally tend toward making changes to the operating model to either recover, or increase income.
The idea that there is no commercial consideration behind this is... I dunno... crazy.
There are fairly simple improvements they could make to the game that would improve the player experience and probably increase revenue, if only by a small amount, so it seems odd that they would fix on a change that literally only seems to punish a small section of the player base for having the temerity to effectively run content on three or more characters.
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It certainly feels and is perceived by me anyways as if that's all this is 100%, - the act of a petty vid gaming tyrrant re what you mentioned about ad gain and squashing it. The zax exchange? hardly
We all know that they realize the effect it will have and if it was not designed for that effect, more information, much more, would have also been simultaneously offered to preserve the enthusiasm many of us HAD until the NW Ghetto was announced.
It will reduce the "disposable" income of many players, which should reduce the AH price of some items...specifically various unbound dungeon drops and masterwork items.
I am not personally bothered by the change - while I do have multiple alts (16 in total) I do not use them to run RQs for AD, and 100K RAD per day is more than enough for me.
However, I do think this will produce a healthier economy and also improve the RQ experience of many players, as fewer people will be running multiple undergeared alts through them just for the AD.
That change gona punish a new players, they still needs tons of RP and marks for their enchants and quipment upgrades - and those are for most part fixed price items. Yea sure, they may be able to buy a companion cheaper but still needs fixed amount of AD to upgrade it and so on.
Such changes should be made as a whole system rework. Not seprated actions witch relatively brings more harm then effect. This new experiment may even work, but no1 can tell how log it will take before we gona see a AH changes, if any, and how many players game gona quit before that heppens.
And no, RQ experience would be even worse. Bots remain in place, and some of the players would still be grinding AD with RQ - now even harder. Some will quit, some will make another accounts. So if you will notice any changes those gona be an effect of a new tier system than rAD refine cap.
Why do people even need 50 character slots ? I know, I know what they have been used for by players....that's not the point. My point is if alt's are essentially going to be rendered useless (compared to the current system) why keep selling the character slots ?
Shady......period.
If one stash AD and never use it, that AD is not exactly in the economy.
If one uses his stashed AD to "control" the market, every purchase takes 10% of that AD away. RP mostly is not fixed cost. Lower level Mark is not fixed cost. Higher level mark is.
Right at this moment, RP cost in AH drop 40% in general because of 2xRefining stone.
If one actually looks carefully, certain "not so obvious" RP item cost dropped 70% last night.
Reasons of character slots that will still apply are:
1. storage (the cheapest storage solution in the game)
2. leadership (and profession)
3. invocation AD bonus
4. Event prizes (tons of freebie implies AD)
5. invocation -> c-ward, p-ward, ....
6. no cool down for RP drop (if you switch among characters every day).