Lost City of Omu Preview Patch Notes: NW.95.20180207a.1

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Comments

  • kalina311
    kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,079 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    @devs where are these metrics and act logs of a CW SS or Mof running TONG and totally outdpsing everything
    that forced this SS tweak reduction of 30% how are you encouraging more diversity in end game content and breaking the two dc meta by further nerfing cws damage so they dont shine on the run and no group will want a lower item level one
    along with new future content

    tong is a dps race and you want to nerf our dps just LOLZ and have no ads that other utility or control is needed on
    (whispers in devs ear hey maybe consider a dungeon you know.... that a control wizards can actually CONTROL in ) or give the mobs your broken pvp cc Resistance so at least one or 2 control powers can be landed til they are virtually immune like they always are anyways

    just lol at making the oppressor capstone about damage instead about control really really bad design there .. but i digress ..

    what is the net damage difference MOD 12.5 and mod 13 same cws same build types same content
    same thing vs single target instead of trash same data ..
    same thing complete unbuffed cw and runnng dalies solo does not equal damage potential in a group is this in your metrics

    that is the "REAL" data folks

    does CW damage with tweaks remain consistent..or linear or exponential at bare item level to enter high level content vs at max item level .. maybe consider doubling everything that has 1 weapon enchant proc now to 2

    and at full full best in slot will the mod 13 cw mod out perform the mods 12.5 one .....i think not (maybe 1% of the server )
    will a 12k mod 13 cw (that can barely get into high end content as it is )out perform and mod 12.5 cw nope

    just because a few % of the cws may achieve max damage results and get into more runs (and a slight buff god forbid) does not mean that the other 95% ish need to be nerfed especially now since you devs monkeyed around with weapon enchantments and procs


    Post edited by kalina311 on
  • pterias
    pterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    Well, I was overly optimistic. After all these years, I finally installed ACT and did some comparisons. I did comparisons on dummies with combinations of 85% vs 72% crit and Vorpal vs non-Vorpal. On preview (vs. live), every combination caused Storm Spell to represent 3-5% less of my damage. It looks pretty clear this is an overall nerf, unless you have 100% crit (I'm assuming, can't test without some major re-gearing). This isn't even getting into the Lightning nerf.

    I then logged a partial Kessel's run with my 13k CW with 85% crit chance and Vorpal on live and preview. After normalizing the damages, Storm Spell did nearly 8% less damage on preview than on live.

    I went into all of this expecting a marginal buff at my gear level, but I was wrong. This is much worse than I thought. I don't have the gear to test to see at what point, if any, SS becomes overall better on preview than on live.

    I have a CW alt at about 8k. He has 40% crit. chance and 80% crit. sev (0 CA bonus). That seems to be the turning point, damage output of Spell Storm should be almost identical with these changes. Anything above that level, or even another char with similar equipment but some campaign boons (my CW has zero ATM), should see an improvement in mod 13.

    At ~6k you may see a bit of a nerf, but what these changes really mean is either "maybe don't slot SS if you have less than ~40% crit" and "prioritize crit if you want to make the most out of SS", the second part being true even now, BTW. And if you're 6k and below 40% crit SS isn't going to be one of your best source of damage anyway.

    CWs at ~12k and above should see a significant buff (assuming they have good crit. %).

    I'm not sure how you arrived at these conclusions, but I'm sorry, you're completely wrong on everything you just said. It's actually even worse than I originally thought.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    I see a lot of tears and not a lot of evidence. Pointing at the math alone isn’t evidence the changes are unwarranted.

    I’m sure people could be convinced the changes are not reasonable (in view of everything in Mod13), but that will need data. Take your Weapon Enchant off on live and do some stuff, then bring the same character to 13 and do the same thing, get evidence to show where the problem is. You might even need to look at comparing some new builds as well, just in case the meta for CW has shifted.

    But if you really want the change reversed (even partially) that’s what you need to do; gather evidence and show the devs.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • mynaam
    mynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 922 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.



    I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.

    100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.

    EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.



    I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.

    100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.

    EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF
    As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.
    Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸

    Please, if you're gonna whine, do it offline.
  • jano#8078
    jano#8078 Member Posts: 63 Arc User
    Didnt they mention some sort of compensation to CW’s for nerfing enchantment procs (a huge portion of our damage) ? The thing about the cw is we do alot of little damage procs with the exception of 1 encounter and 1 daily so when you go and start reducing those procs it hurts us bad. Mod 12b i’d say the cw is middle of the pack dps wise and these nerfs will most assuredly knock us further down.
  • cheesey#4444
    cheesey#4444 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2018


    As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.
    Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸

    Steel Blitz never proced lightning anyway.

    Lightning Arcs proc Steel Blitz when used on Weapon Master's Strike. This bug is still present in M13. It gives GWF a significant advantage in AOE fights.

    Lightning Enchant will remain the same for GWF as it was in m12B. The only change is to the Burst now being able to crit.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User


    As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.
    Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸

    Steel Blitz never proced lightning anyway.

    Lightning Arcs proc Steel Blitz when used on Weapon Master's Strike. This bug is still present in M13. It gives GWF a significant advantage in AOE fights.

    Lightning Enchant will remain the same for GWF as it was in m12B. The only change is to the Burst now being able to crit.
    It's present but it will be fixed.
  • lardeson
    lardeson Member Posts: 374 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    @obsidiancran3 how about the devs give a feedback on reason of nerfing this rather than just, hey, here's our new patch notes, guess what, we slightly buffed u earleir, but we just decided a nerf will be more suitable. cos balls. no sir, as long as there are broken classes like gwf, hr and gf, this makes no sense, i dont see how much making ss crit can even do 100m on a swing as gfs are currently doing and i still see no work in the patch notes for this and you are saying we should give the devs tests?, they are the ones that need to give reasons behind they changes they make, im sure you boss doesn't just sit down, and go, here, you'll be earning 100 bucks more this month, then next month, hey, i've decided u'll be earning 100 bucks less. And the worse part is that, NO ONE CALLED FOR THIS, if they did a test and saw it was broken, they should have let us know, not everyone has preview, i personally uninstalled preview cos it was giving me issues.
    Lardeson CW not Mage. Where's my fireball and my thunderbolt?
  • fightdawalrus#5058
    fightdawalrus#5058 Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
    > The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.
    >
    >
    >
    > I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.
    >
    > 100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.
    >
    > EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF
    >
    >
    > As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.
    > Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸
    >
    > Please, if you're gonna whine, do it offline.

    Kind of ironic, you seem to be whining about other people whining.

    If you don't think GWF is currently too strong as it is than you are either trolling or oblivious.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User

    > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

    > The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.

    >

    >

    >

    > I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.

    >

    > 100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.

    >

    > EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF

    >

    >

    > As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.

    > Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸

    >

    > Please, if you're gonna whine, do it offline.



    Kind of ironic, you seem to be whining about other people whining.



    If you don't think GWF is currently too strong as it is than you are either trolling or oblivious.

    If you think GWF is the biggest issue you're either trolling or oblivious.
  • baronstragen
    baronstragen Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    I see a lot of tears and not a lot of evidence. Pointing at the math alone isn’t evidence the changes are unwarranted.

    I’m sure people could be convinced the changes are not reasonable (in view of everything in Mod13), but that will need data. Take your Weapon Enchant off on live and do some stuff, then bring the same character to 13 and do the same thing, get evidence to show where the problem is. You might even need to look at comparing some new builds as well, just in case the meta for CW has shifted.

    But if you really want the change reversed (even partially) that’s what you need to do; gather evidence and show the devs.

    You want Evidence? Here. @terramak please note carefully.
    I left my guild on live server to run the exact same character values and with no weapon enchantment on either. I ran the first 4 sets of mobs in Kessels retreat because without an enchant, I'm very squishy. This is simply to compare StormSpell damage.

    ACT Log of Live Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    As you can see, 0% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34765.92dps

    ACT Log of Preview Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    On Preview, you can see 88% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34309.63dps

    So, even with the critical chance of stormspell, On Preview I am doing 34309.63/34765.92 = 98.69% of Live Server Damage.

    So we are doing slightly less damage via stormspell than we are currently, and this doesn't include the weapon enchantment proc'ing less.

    What more do I need to show you. Happy to help.

    Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW
    Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
    Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
    JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
    Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
  • demonmonger
    demonmonger Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,350 Arc User
    Combat log is broken
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User

    I see a lot of tears and not a lot of evidence. Pointing at the math alone isn’t evidence the changes are unwarranted.

    I’m sure people could be convinced the changes are not reasonable (in view of everything in Mod13), but that will need data. Take your Weapon Enchant off on live and do some stuff, then bring the same character to 13 and do the same thing, get evidence to show where the problem is. You might even need to look at comparing some new builds as well, just in case the meta for CW has shifted.

    But if you really want the change reversed (even partially) that’s what you need to do; gather evidence and show the devs.

    You want Evidence? Here. @terramak please note carefully.
    I left my guild on live server to run the exact same character values and with no weapon enchantment on either. I ran the first 4 sets of mobs in Kessels retreat because without an enchant, I'm very squishy. This is simply to compare StormSpell damage.

    ACT Log of Live Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    As you can see, 0% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34765.92dps

    ACT Log of Preview Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    On Preview, you can see 88% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34309.63dps

    So, even with the critical chance of stormspell, On Preview I am doing 34309.63/34765.92 = 98.69% of Live Server Damage.

    So we are doing slightly less damage via stormspell than we are currently, and this doesn't include the weapon enchantment proc'ing less.

    What more do I need to show you. Happy to help.

    From your ACT values
    - SS Live -----> 19.735 average
    - SS Preview --> 22.430 average

    So to me SS on preview is doing 13.65% more damage.

    You can't use de Encounter DPS because you have no way to control how much useless time is taken into account in that "encounter".
  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    mynaam said:

    The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.



    I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.

    100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.

    EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF
    As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.
    Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸

    Please, if you're gonna whine, do it offline.
    Slam damage with sw temp teamate duo.

    the thing here is more than 1 tic per second vs boss .FOR duo is not so bad damage.


    aoe fights is another story 5 slam procs per second( again duo).
    if damage is 36k x5 times =216k per second. Sounds like a top daily for aoe ( 216k in a sec duo in 5 man team?)

    Questionable is why slam was so necessary to critical or even and the change on mighty blade feat on a class that is already in good state( in terms of damage ofcourse i mean)?




  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User
    nisckis said:

    I see a lot of tears and not a lot of evidence. Pointing at the math alone isn’t evidence the changes are unwarranted.

    I’m sure people could be convinced the changes are not reasonable (in view of everything in Mod13), but that will need data. Take your Weapon Enchant off on live and do some stuff, then bring the same character to 13 and do the same thing, get evidence to show where the problem is. You might even need to look at comparing some new builds as well, just in case the meta for CW has shifted.

    But if you really want the change reversed (even partially) that’s what you need to do; gather evidence and show the devs.

    You want Evidence? Here. @terramak please note carefully.
    I left my guild on live server to run the exact same character values and with no weapon enchantment on either. I ran the first 4 sets of mobs in Kessels retreat because without an enchant, I'm very squishy. This is simply to compare StormSpell damage.

    ACT Log of Live Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    As you can see, 0% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34765.92dps

    ACT Log of Preview Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    On Preview, you can see 88% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34309.63dps

    So, even with the critical chance of stormspell, On Preview I am doing 34309.63/34765.92 = 98.69% of Live Server Damage.

    So we are doing slightly less damage via stormspell than we are currently, and this doesn't include the weapon enchantment proc'ing less.

    What more do I need to show you. Happy to help.

    From your ACT values
    - SS Live -----> 19.735 average
    - SS Preview --> 22.430 average

    So to me SS on preview is doing 13.65% more damage.

    You can't use de Encounter DPS because you have no way to control how much useless time is taken into account in that "encounter".
    Yeah but you have to remember, that doesn't count in the fact that the proc rate has been nerfed severely. It hits harder, but less often. Muuuch less often.
    Also, if it's critting, and you have 100% critsev, it shouldn't hit 13% harder, or 20%, or 30%. Should hit twice as hard.
  • fightdawalrus#5058
    fightdawalrus#5058 Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
    > > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
    >
    > > The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > 100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.
    >
    > > Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Please, if you're gonna whine, do it offline.
    >
    >
    >
    > Kind of ironic, you seem to be whining about other people whining.
    >
    >
    >
    > If you don't think GWF is currently too strong as it is than you are either trolling or oblivious.
    >
    > If you think GWF is the biggest issue you're either trolling or oblivious.

    You must be oblivious since I brought up GWF cause it was brought up a few comments b> @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
    > > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
    >
    > > The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > 100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.
    >
    > >
    >
    > > EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF
    >
    > >
    >
    > >
    >
    > > As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.
    >
    > > Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸
    >
    > >
    >
    > > Please, if you're gonna whine, do it offline.
    >
    >
    >
    > Kind of ironic, you seem to be whining about other people whining.
    >
    >
    >
    > If you don't think GWF is currently too strong as it is than you are either trolling or oblivious.
    >
    > If you think GWF is the biggest issue you're either trolling or oblivious.

    You seem salty.

    You were trying to act as if GWF's are just perfectly okay and not overpowered at all.

    Id say personally, DPS GF is more of an issue but that doesn't mean GWF isn't out of the conversation.
  • krondhor
    krondhor Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 150 Arc User
    Devs, please change HR feat Wilds Medicine for PVP

    Wilds Medicine This feat is half effective in PVP this limit should now be removed (was right to exist before) but since the healing depression changes in mod12b it's useless, basic it overnerf it (since healing is 75% less) means the healing is 25% effective nowadays and have this halved further in addition means the healing effectivness is 12,5% on this talent which means it's totaly overnerfed, and since combat tree was relaying on survival means there is no survival left at all.
    GRAVITY X GAME
  • baronstragen
    baronstragen Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    So to me SS on preview is doing 13.65% more damage.

    You can't use de Encounter DPS because you have no way to control how much useless time is taken into account in that "encounter".


    Fine. SS on Live proc'd 303 times
    SS on Preview proc'd 254 times.

    That is a 16% difference in proc rate. And I died once on preview. It's probably more than that.
    Also, that was at an 88% crit rate. Not every SS CW has that kind of rate.

    Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW
    Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
    Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
    JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
    Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User

    > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

    snippity snip


    You were trying to act as if GWF's are just perfectly okay and not overpowered at all.



    Id say personally, DPS GF is more of an issue but that doesn't mean GWF isn't out of the conversation.

    Not salty one bit. Project much?

    Anyways, this doesn't change the fact that there are more pressing issues. A class being strong isn't nearly as bad as a class being weak. Because when the class is strong, that's it. It's strong (none of the classes are really overpowered atm, as they can be replaced. there's always gonna be a meta regardless of how well balanced the game is) and nothing else. But if it's weak you're alienating a big part of your community. Just like what happened with SWs. SWs are now pretty good supports, and devs have said that they've only started reworking it.

    (Keep in mind, while it doesn't really show how "overpowered" a class is, I haven't seen a GWF burn orcus in 10 seconds. I HAVE however seen GFs and TRs burn orcus). And I don't mind this at all - have your own fun, mate. If that's how you play, so be it, I dont give a damn.

    And neither should you ;)
  • ravnazrael1
    ravnazrael1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    Hi All,
    I did some very basic testing as I am on PS4 and do not have act logs, but I seemed to notice a lot more procs of smoulder and rimefire smolder with critical conflagration as opposed to using swathe of destruction. Would be interesting to see if someone could test that on preview and see if it procs more vs swath.
    Thanks
  • pterias
    pterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    nisckis said:

    I see a lot of tears and not a lot of evidence. Pointing at the math alone isn’t evidence the changes are unwarranted.

    I’m sure people could be convinced the changes are not reasonable (in view of everything in Mod13), but that will need data. Take your Weapon Enchant off on live and do some stuff, then bring the same character to 13 and do the same thing, get evidence to show where the problem is. You might even need to look at comparing some new builds as well, just in case the meta for CW has shifted.

    But if you really want the change reversed (even partially) that’s what you need to do; gather evidence and show the devs.

    You want Evidence? Here. @terramak please note carefully.
    I left my guild on live server to run the exact same character values and with no weapon enchantment on either. I ran the first 4 sets of mobs in Kessels retreat because without an enchant, I'm very squishy. This is simply to compare StormSpell damage.

    ACT Log of Live Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    As you can see, 0% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34765.92dps

    ACT Log of Preview Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    On Preview, you can see 88% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34309.63dps

    So, even with the critical chance of stormspell, On Preview I am doing 34309.63/34765.92 = 98.69% of Live Server Damage.

    So we are doing slightly less damage via stormspell than we are currently, and this doesn't include the weapon enchantment proc'ing less.

    What more do I need to show you. Happy to help.

    From your ACT values
    - SS Live -----> 19.735 average
    - SS Preview --> 22.430 average

    So to me SS on preview is doing 13.65% more damage.

    You can't use de Encounter DPS because you have no way to control how much useless time is taken into account in that "encounter".
    If you look at total damage, your both missing that he did over 2 million more total damage on the preview run but total Storm Spell damage dropped by about 250k. Per-hit damage may be close, but if you equalize the damage totals, total damage output of Storm Spell dropped about 13% on preview vs. live. Mine dropped about 8%, but that was with the benefit of a Vorpal enchant. Proc rate seems to be the thing that is really driving the nail in the coffin, even at high crit rate/severity. His dropped by 16% while mine dropped by 30% somehow.
  • baronstragen
    baronstragen Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    @pterias said:

    If you look at total damage, your both missing that he did over 2 million more total damage on the preview run but total Storm Spell damage dropped by about 250k. Per-hit damage may be close, but if you equalize the damage totals, total damage output of Storm Spell dropped about 13% on preview vs. live. Mine dropped about 8%, but that was with the benefit of a Vorpal enchant. Proc rate seems to be the thing that is really driving the nail in the coffin, even at high crit rate/severity. His dropped by 16% while mine dropped by 30% somehow.

    Aye. I died once in preview, so had to go back and do a little extra killing. And stormspell damage still didn't exceed the damage I did on live. And with no weapon enchant, there wasn't any extra damage or proc's being done on either server. I believe that this is a nerf, even with the stormspell now critting.

    Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW
    Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
    Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
    JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
    Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
  • gankdalf#8991
    gankdalf#8991 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 911 Arc User
    Maybe they meant to buff spell storm by 30%? honestly, that makes more sense then a nerf. (Not saying it should, just saying it
    nisckis said:

    I see a lot of tears and not a lot of evidence. Pointing at the math alone isn’t evidence the changes are unwarranted.

    I’m sure people could be convinced the changes are not reasonable (in view of everything in Mod13), but that will need data. Take your Weapon Enchant off on live and do some stuff, then bring the same character to 13 and do the same thing, get evidence to show where the problem is. You might even need to look at comparing some new builds as well, just in case the meta for CW has shifted.

    But if you really want the change reversed (even partially) that’s what you need to do; gather evidence and show the devs.

    You want Evidence? Here. @terramak please note carefully.
    I left my guild on live server to run the exact same character values and with no weapon enchantment on either. I ran the first 4 sets of mobs in Kessels retreat because without an enchant, I'm very squishy. This is simply to compare StormSpell damage.

    ACT Log of Live Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    As you can see, 0% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34765.92dps

    ACT Log of Preview Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    On Preview, you can see 88% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34309.63dps

    So, even with the critical chance of stormspell, On Preview I am doing 34309.63/34765.92 = 98.69% of Live Server Damage.

    So we are doing slightly less damage via stormspell than we are currently, and this doesn't include the weapon enchantment proc'ing less.

    What more do I need to show you. Happy to help.

    From your ACT values
    - SS Live -----> 19.735 average
    - SS Preview --> 22.430 average

    So to me SS on preview is doing 13.65% more damage.

    You can't use de Encounter DPS because you have no way to control how much useless time is taken into account in that "encounter".
    Do the same thing but on live use lightning like u would, and on ptr use feytought like you would. :P

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • gromovnipljesak#8234
    gromovnipljesak#8234 Member Posts: 1,050 Arc User

    Maybe they meant to buff spell storm by 30%? honestly, that makes more sense then a nerf. (Not saying it should, just saying it

    nisckis said:

    I see a lot of tears and not a lot of evidence. Pointing at the math alone isn’t evidence the changes are unwarranted.

    I’m sure people could be convinced the changes are not reasonable (in view of everything in Mod13), but that will need data. Take your Weapon Enchant off on live and do some stuff, then bring the same character to 13 and do the same thing, get evidence to show where the problem is. You might even need to look at comparing some new builds as well, just in case the meta for CW has shifted.

    But if you really want the change reversed (even partially) that’s what you need to do; gather evidence and show the devs.

    You want Evidence? Here. @terramak please note carefully.
    I left my guild on live server to run the exact same character values and with no weapon enchantment on either. I ran the first 4 sets of mobs in Kessels retreat because without an enchant, I'm very squishy. This is simply to compare StormSpell damage.

    ACT Log of Live Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    As you can see, 0% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34765.92dps

    ACT Log of Preview Server:
    Image and video hosting by TinyPic
    On Preview, you can see 88% crit on Stormspell, Encounter DPS was 34309.63dps

    So, even with the critical chance of stormspell, On Preview I am doing 34309.63/34765.92 = 98.69% of Live Server Damage.

    So we are doing slightly less damage via stormspell than we are currently, and this doesn't include the weapon enchantment proc'ing less.

    What more do I need to show you. Happy to help.

    From your ACT values
    - SS Live -----> 19.735 average
    - SS Preview --> 22.430 average

    So to me SS on preview is doing 13.65% more damage.

    You can't use de Encounter DPS because you have no way to control how much useless time is taken into account in that "encounter".
    Do the same thing but on live use lightning like u would, and on ptr use feytought like you would. :P
    Im saying they should buff it instead. They are supposed to be a good AoE clearing class, but they just lost one of the bigger tools they had for it. And their single target damage is HAMSTER too because it doesnt proc that often due to a fix.
  • fightdawalrus#5058
    fightdawalrus#5058 Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
    > > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:
    >
    > snippity snip
    >
    >
    > You were trying to act as if GWF's are just perfectly okay and not overpowered at all.
    >
    >
    >
    > Id say personally, DPS GF is more of an issue but that doesn't mean GWF isn't out of the conversation.
    >
    > Not salty one bit. Project much?
    >
    > Anyways, this doesn't change the fact that there are more pressing issues. A class being strong isn't nearly as bad as a class being weak. Because when the class is strong, that's it. It's strong (none of the classes are really overpowered atm, as they can be replaced. there's always gonna be a meta regardless of how well balanced the game is) and nothing else. But if it's weak you're alienating a big part of your community. Just like what happened with SWs. SWs are now pretty good supports, and devs have said that they've only started reworking it.
    >
    > (Keep in mind, while it doesn't really show how "overpowered" a class is, I haven't seen a GWF burn orcus in 10 seconds. I HAVE however seen GFs and TRs burn orcus). And I don't mind this at all - have your own fun, mate. If that's how you play, so be it, I dont give a damn.
    >
    > And neither should you ;)

    How contradicting.

    So, you say there is no overpowered class at the moment, what do you call a DPS GF hitting for 600+ million? A strong class isn't as bad as a weak class? So, every class should hit for 600 million? Im not sure what you are going on about but you shouldn't be talking about balance.

    There is always going to be a meta but that doesn't mean one DPS should be vastly superior to another DPS, even with BiS gear and group. I can't imagine the kind of tears that will fall when GWF takes a huge nerf. I bet you won't be in here posting with that same smug attitude. Im done with this though, you came in here only to call people "whiners" and to add nothing to the convorsation.
  • mynaam
    mynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 922 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    mynaam said:

    The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.



    I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.

    100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.

    EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF
    As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.
    Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸

    Please, if you're gonna whine, do it offline.
    Well if you are going to critisise get your facts straight us GWF are getting a big DPS increase lightning does more damage in mod 13 on gwf than in mod 12. and we are getting a big buff on AOE with the changes to relentless battle fury


    That means combine those 2 and we will be melting mobs more than we do now.

    EDIT : I would rather be called a names and give comments that will help prevent another player bleed than only think about myself
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • mynaam
    mynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 922 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    > @gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

    > The Devs are honestly appearing as if they do not listen nor care about the quality and quantity of feedback people have been giving. You are HAMSTER over people who play this game exclusively and put in a lot of time/money into a class and enjoy working on it and watching it progress. Now, it seems at any given time the class you invested so much time to can go from nice to absolute HAMSTER no no time. Do you devs really think that is healthy for the game? Do you expect players to just chalk it up as a loss and make a new character? I promise you, that is not the case. While it is true, a lot of us truly enjoy the game, we can only put up with so much before you say "screw it" and all these negative experiences make their way to people who are interested in joining NW but see how many long term players have been neglected. This game can be so much more if you would just listen to the people who play it.

    >

    >

    >

    > I have a 16k CW and I have worked hard on it and now its getting nerfed while you have GF's destroying Orcus in T9G in less than 10 seconds? Its almost disrespectful. The fact that you have 4 pages of feedback and not a single dev has responded is even more disrespectful. I hope you truly know what you are doing with these changes.

    >

    > 100% agree not to mention the GWF getting Buffed for some weird reason(even lightning is getting buffed in gwf). guess they do not want cw to be dps anymore... they can at least inform us of that . I have basically stopped playing my cw now when it comes to dungeons it is now only an ad farm engine and my gwf will have to run in cheat-mode and destroy everything in the future.

    >

    > EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF

    >

    >

    > As I said in my earlier post, there's always gonna be a whiner. For starters, lightning is getting nerfed, unlike you'd want us to believe. It's gonna be worse on AoE (and that's where we use it) because SB will not proc lightning.

    > Next off, slam is getting buffed. Its damage goes up from zero, to zero times two! ¸

    >

    > Please, if you're gonna whine, do it offline.



    Kind of ironic, you seem to be whining about other people whining.



    If you don't think GWF is currently too strong as it is than you are either trolling or oblivious.

    If you think GWF is the biggest issue you're either trolling or oblivious.
    I did not say GWF is the issue. My main DPS is a GWF i WANT it buffed. I have a problem with cw basically loosing its SS path and CW becoming a mediocre DPS and i am not talking only BIS level i mean they must think of players of 1k -> 18k not just 16->18k


    EDIT : That is why i have 2 toons of each class that i play daily one . I try to get 15k+ and other i intentionally leave below 12k so i can accurately tell mid level players what to do and not give advice from an high item level that is worthless for them it is amassive diference between mid and end game and it apear that people that have been BIS for years forgot that
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    It has been 5 YEARS since last new class this is getting ridiculous
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Please do master/normal version of dungeons. This way content for all MOD 19 have nothing new for vast majority of player base. Giving an EVENT is not same thing as permanent content for non BIS. As we suggested in CDP
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • spidey#3367
    spidey#3367 Member Posts: 400 Arc User
    mynaam said:


    I did not say GWF is the issue.

    Ofc you did:
    mynaam said:


    EDIT : Cheatmode = Destroyer GWF

    So stop claiming GWFs are some kind of cheaters. They arent, my friend. Focus on your "fight" about the changes at CW and dont make any false accusations plz. There is no thing like a Cheatmode on GWFs.
  • obsidiancran3
    obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User


    You want Evidence? Here. @terramak please note carefully.
    I left my guild on live server to run the exact same character values and with no weapon enchantment on either. I ran the first 4 sets of mobs in Kessels retreat because without an enchant, I'm very squishy. This is simply to compare StormSpell damage.

    What more do I need to show you. Happy to help.

    Thanks, that's useful data, not just speculation.

    The 2 key things I notice in your Data are the lower proc rate for SS and likely far more important the much, much lower minimum hit value.

    Over all based on the data you provided the build you have seems to have performed better in terms of how hard it hit and so on, the glaring exception is that minimum hit value on SS.

    So my first thought is that the devs should look at adjusting the effective range of SS so that the minimum value is not so small so the power is less swingy. If that is not possible then a buff of about 30% from the current values (ie 1.3x current values not up to 60% of the prior values) and the power looks like it should be closer meeting expectations.

    ie at the moment its a little weak, but not as badly gutted as this thread has tried to imply compared to live.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
This discussion has been closed.