Lost City of Omu Preview Patch Notes: NW.95.20180207a.1

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Comments

  • oria1
    oria1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 263 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    itbls said:

    @mamalion1234
    Critical Conflagration, The log was for the entire run and it doesn't really matter if its mix. Smolder and Rimefire feels like it does not even exist, it just dose not tick fast enough to be useful.

    Try without Crit Conf. Its bugged. It prevents smolder from ticking a lot of times. Its easy to test yourself and see.

    Either way in my opinion is best to use Chilling presence and swath as both will increase the damage of smolder and also yours and teams damage by a lot more then CC. Maybe also redo the tests as now they seem off by a lot? In an entire dungeon you have 3 min smolder uptime (actually its far less) which is simply not right and it gives a wrong impression.





  • gankdalf#8991
    gankdalf#8991 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 911 Arc User
    macjae said:

    I think a lot went wrong with CWs during earlier rounds of balancing and tweaking. In particular, when the damage from their powers was reduced while the power of their procs (like Storm Spell in particular) was then tweaked to compensate for that, which produced an outcome that was overall pretty weird.

    What I'd like to see in general is less reliance on procs and passives, and more emphasis on the actual active powers. At this point, there's a bizarre game of give-and-take; fixing multiproccing leads to a Storm Spell boost to compensate (which builds in more reliance on this feature); trying to put Storm Spell back in line then leads to an overall nerf to a class that doesn't require it in the damage department.

    What should be done now is boosting the base damage of CW powers. For other classes as well, it would be nice in the longer run to see more consistent values and basing things more on solid core numbers; fewer and less extreme self-buffs, fewer and less extreme procs. That would overall produce a more stable situation balance-wise once a proper baseline is arrived at.

    Presently, the amount of variance in some cases feels too large and random; that one class can do as much as 5-10 times more damage with a weapon enchantment than another due to larger class self-buffs is just way off being reasonable in any way.

    I agree with this, but I think thats to much work so im too afraid to ask for it because if they decide this is what they wanna do then we have to wait 1-2 mods for the changes and playing CW for that long with these kind of nerfs is not a good option. They need to buff us right now. If they wanna rework the CW later then they can do that. But as of mod13, we need a quick fix.

    So bring back the 30% damage to Spell storm and then sit down and do a rework.

    ▁ ▂ ▄ ▅ ▆ ▇ █ Gankdalf The Icehole █ ▇ ▆ ▅ ▄ ▂ ▁

  • ravnazrael1
    ravnazrael1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    oria1 said:

    itbls said:

    @mamalion1234
    Critical Conflagration, The log was for the entire run and it doesn't really matter if its mix. Smolder and Rimefire feels like it does not even exist, it just dose not tick fast enough to be useful.

    Try without Crit Conf. Its bugged. It prevents smolder from ticking a lot of times. Its easy to test yourself and see.

    Either way in my opinion is best to use Chilling presence and swath as both will increase the damage of smolder and also yours and teams damage by a lot more then CC. Maybe also redo the tests as now they seem off by a lot? In an entire dungeon you have 3 min smolder uptime (actually its far less) which is simply not right and it gives a wrong impression.

    Also chilling presence is supposed to affect smolder now. Would be nice to see if thats true and what the results are like
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    Stronghold (MW III) weapon bonus change:
    Thank you, thank you! I had complained about this issue before - you introduced a number of new weapon sets, but none of them were a decent upgrade for the MW II set for support classes, which would have forced people like me to stay with MW II as the best option in our case.

    Now we actually have something to look forward to....
    even if it is a tad expensive.

    Having said that, the former MW III set bonus was actually pretty cool for some classes/builds, so I hope you will re-introduce it at some point....or if you want to make a lot of people happy...have two MW III sets - one with the new and one with the old bonus.


    Non-unique, non-stackable, non-mailable hunt items.
    Not a perfect solution, but it solves the biggest problem, and gives us a "workable" solution...so, I am OK with this.

    CW nerfs
    Give me a reason why I should continue playing my CW, please....

    This is a bit excessive
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    edited February 2018

    oria1 said:

    itbls said:

    @mamalion1234
    Critical Conflagration, The log was for the entire run and it doesn't really matter if its mix. Smolder and Rimefire feels like it does not even exist, it just dose not tick fast enough to be useful.

    Try without Crit Conf. Its bugged. It prevents smolder from ticking a lot of times. Its easy to test yourself and see.

    Either way in my opinion is best to use Chilling presence and swath as both will increase the damage of smolder and also yours and teams damage by a lot more then CC. Maybe also redo the tests as now they seem off by a lot? In an entire dungeon you have 3 min smolder uptime (actually its far less) which is simply not right and it gives a wrong impression.

    Also chilling presence is supposed to affect smolder now. Would be nice to see if thats true and what the results are like

    oria1 said:

    itbls said:

    @mamalion1234
    Critical Conflagration, The log was for the entire run and it doesn't really matter if its mix. Smolder and Rimefire feels like it does not even exist, it just dose not tick fast enough to be useful.

    Try without Crit Conf. Its bugged. It prevents smolder from ticking a lot of times. Its easy to test yourself and see.

    Either way in my opinion is best to use Chilling presence and swath as both will increase the damage of smolder and also yours and teams damage by a lot more then CC. Maybe also redo the tests as now they seem off by a lot? In an entire dungeon you have 3 min smolder uptime (actually its far less) which is simply not right and it gives a wrong impression.

    Also chilling presence is supposed to affect smolder now. Would be nice to see if thats true and what the results are like
    it works 1267.4 the hit before presence 1875.8 the hit after 6 chill stacks( control immune target) 1267.4 x1.48( 48%) = 1875,752




    the only thing do not work on smolder is the soul crystal and that is strange since the artifact says:the target take 50% from your attacks for 10 seconds. Smolder is an attack isnt it ?
  • ravnazrael1
    ravnazrael1 Member Posts: 36 Arc User

    oria1 said:

    itbls said:

    @mamalion1234
    Critical Conflagration, The log was for the entire run and it doesn't really matter if its mix. Smolder and Rimefire feels like it does not even exist, it just dose not tick fast enough to be useful.

    Try without Crit Conf. Its bugged. It prevents smolder from ticking a lot of times. Its easy to test yourself and see.

    Either way in my opinion is best to use Chilling presence and swath as both will increase the damage of smolder and also yours and teams damage by a lot more then CC. Maybe also redo the tests as now they seem off by a lot? In an entire dungeon you have 3 min smolder uptime (actually its far less) which is simply not right and it gives a wrong impression.

    Also chilling presence is supposed to affect smolder now. Would be nice to see if thats true and what the results are like

    oria1 said:

    itbls said:

    @mamalion1234
    Critical Conflagration, The log was for the entire run and it doesn't really matter if its mix. Smolder and Rimefire feels like it does not even exist, it just dose not tick fast enough to be useful.

    Try without Crit Conf. Its bugged. It prevents smolder from ticking a lot of times. Its easy to test yourself and see.

    Either way in my opinion is best to use Chilling presence and swath as both will increase the damage of smolder and also yours and teams damage by a lot more then CC. Maybe also redo the tests as now they seem off by a lot? In an entire dungeon you have 3 min smolder uptime (actually its far less) which is simply not right and it gives a wrong impression.

    Also chilling presence is supposed to affect smolder now. Would be nice to see if thats true and what the results are like
    it works 1267.4 the hit before presence 1875.8 the hit after 6 chill stacks( control immune target) 1267.4 x1.48( 48%) = 1875,752


    Well thats something at least.. trying hard to find a bright side with these CW changes
  • nisckis
    nisckis Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 655 Arc User

    Well thats something at least.. trying hard to find a bright side with these CW changes


  • artifleur
    artifleur Member Posts: 642 Arc User


    Chultan Tiger - The tooltip for killer instinct (see above) is misleading. It says "take more damage" which implies a damage buff but it actually applies a damage resistance debuff. Either fix the tooltip or the skill. If you don't know the difference please ask

    Combat Advantage - Combat advantage from positioning still isn't working as of the lastest preview patch, If you don't know what I'm talking about, see here
  • neidanman#1423
    neidanman#1423 Member Posts: 82 Arc User
    Regarding the CW change - (I play only one char, a CW I have played for over a year, with no alts).

    I can see why you could want to reduce SS damage after making it crit, as so much of our damage would be coming from one place. On the other hand, one of our other class features (chilling presence) boosts our damage by around 40% or so (depending on uptime), and storm spell will now be giving us only around +10% or so damage boost (see links below from thefabricant) so isn't it really fine without the 30% reduction?

    Also it was said that there would be some kind of compensation to CWs to account for how weapon enchant procs were changing, but it looks like this is no longer happening. TheFabricant has already tested weapon enchants and posted about how feytouched will generally be BiS, and looking at his latest ACT logs for boss fights in TONG, we now get a fair bit less damage from storm spell/weapon enchant.

    I get that you aren't planning a detailed overhaul of CWs, but it would be good to see our damage stay at least where it is at the moment somehow. This could happen simply by rolling this change back, or maybe by putting our base damage up to being level with GWF/OP/GF if you keep this change?

    Fabricant's forum post / ACT logs : https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1237534/cw-changes-in-mod-13/p3 / https://imgur.com/a/NMqs6

  • eclipseblood#1326
    eclipseblood#1326 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    I dont see dps changing to the new mc weapons, that said the stat increases wont justify the price of the weapons for support characters who usually go for "support" rather than damage pally wont need it since theyre fine temp hp wise, dc primarily play as buffers anyways, gf can stay with the old set unless theyre conqueror then primal or another set would likely be the better option for them. Increasing the set bonus to 4% would be more worthwhile, as is i dont see much point in updating my dc weapons tbh
  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    artifleur said:


    primal set with just 1 class in party that can heal can proc permanent. 10% of maximum health is nothing.
    if my target has 280k hp believe me as dc or as sw or as op devotion is not that hard to make 28k healing spell in 1 blow.
    or take 28k damage.

    Did you try it yourself?

    Healing triggers usually only work when the spell actually heals, meaning you must be missing enough health.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there was a hidden cooldown on it as well.

    This set seems to potentially be the most powerful of the four but I wonder how often it would be up in a team with a tank holding aggro away from you.
    IF enviroment damage you or dot damage damage you. THE list below you will not die from the hit.
    examples: hati dot attack can in 1 blow ( 1tic) do 10% of your hp.
    turtle : 1 bite can do 10% of your life.
    drufi ice on the walls can do 10% of your hp.
    ras nsi red area can do 10% of your hp.
    2nd boss in tong so many enemy area damaging effects can hit 10% of your hp.
    Even orcus can hit you and you will not die (mostly because the mitigation buffs) and will be 10% of your life.
    Nostura curses in master sp.
    kabal full fire place .
    2nd boss too in sp since party facetank the boss.

    All the cases above how easy is to get damage .
    For the healing part it make it more ridiculous that also the potential heal count that you got heal ( i mean even if you have full health if your teamate do 28k heal and you have 280k life 10% of 280k =28k will trigger the buff).

    For those saying in bis team you cant get a hi 10% of your life in single blow how much damage you get in that bis team from hati bleed?
  • vlek91
    vlek91 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited February 2018


    For those saying in bis team you cant get a hi 10% of your life in single blow how much damage you get in that bis team from hati bleed?

    Zero. (you meant breath, right?)

    Drufi's wall and kabal's lava are the only items you listed that might actually work, all the others won't, especially nostura's curse, for many reasons.

    Unless primal keeps working for overheal, It'll be garbage.
  • lucislator
    lucislator Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    artifleur said:



    Chultan Tiger - The tooltip for killer instinct (see above) is misleading. It says "take more damage" which implies a damage buff but it actually applies a damage resistance debuff. Either fix the tooltip or the skill. If you don't know the difference please ask

    Combat Advantage - Combat advantage from positioning still isn't working as of the lastest preview patch, If you don't know what I'm talking about, see here

    actually it seems to be correct, it's a debuff on target not a buff (except the self for tiger)
  • splodeykitteh
    splodeykitteh Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    @terramak @asterdahl @ctatumdev#6113
    Dear devs, the spell storm nerf seems excessive and unnecessary. Back in the day you made the changes to it because of interactions with the lostmauth set, which has since been nerfed. I think you intended changing it back to be a buff, but testers are reporting a dps loss. With the lightning changes, we are already down to one viable weapon enchantment (fey) for CW dps whereas other dps classes will see an improvement in lightning's performance for them. And you have done nothing to balance the guardian fighter, which is the most overperforming single-target dps in the game and has the survivability of a tank to boot. Perhaps you have decided that CW is to be a support class; but that was not what was advertised to me when I created mine some five years ago. We queue as dps and are competing for a dps slot with these other classes, and must work twice as hard to be half as effective. Increasing party diversity at endgame is not just a matter of nerfing the privileged classes but presenting the others as viable alternatives.
  • cheesey#4444
    cheesey#4444 Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    krzrsms said:

    It never effects anything, but Ill add my downvote for posterity.

    So for much of the last year SS has been the black sheep class, not even wanted in end game content. Ive managed to stay moderately competitive by massively investing in my character. Yet even with that I was forced to add a MOF build out that I must use for me to be let into any endgame dungeoneering. (and by that of course I mean Tong because right now that is the only endgame content we have)

    I had thought there was a chance with the changes up to but not including these that we could work within the system and at least tread water and maintain our position as mediocre DPS with a desirable debuff loadout possible. Nope.. cant have that. Now we're being relegated to support class only, while once again GWF remains untouched, and you fiddle with other classes in meaningless ways.

    I agree, I does seem odd that they are nerfing a class that cannot out perform a GWF/HR with the same IL and same amount of skills.

    I run a 16k CW with the best gear, optimised feats and enchantments. Today I ran a MSP with a T.Fey enchantment against a 16k GWF using a T.Lightning Enchantment. I did this too see how CWs would perfom next mod against what a GWF would be using next mod (we ran it on live, so no m13 bug fixes were included). In 70% of the trash fights I was out dpsed by the gwf easily. Most of the time his damage was 1.5x mine. I only managed to out dps him in the fights where the enemies were scattered over a large area. For the boss fights, i was able to get ahead of his damage by 30%. The end result was that i dealt 434 million and the gwf dealt 687 million.

    I am not saying GWF needs a nerf. CWs need a significant buff to produce the same amount of damage after all these changes.

    Can we get a Developer to comment how exactly they balance classes?
    What steps do they go through to come to the conclusion something needs a buff or nerf?
    Why they leave some thing not working as intended for players to invest in?

  • krzrsms
    krzrsms Member Posts: 164 Arc User
    Went to preview to check out more details onthe m13 weapon sets.

    May want to fix the broken weapon sets too..

    Tyrant set.. buffs are added every 3 seconds, not every 15 seconds. Even further the set bonus continues to be available after leaving combat, walking away, and changing weapons. Move on to another fight, start combat and guess what, you get the tyrannical bonus added still. :\ Quality work there.

    Primal set works with overhealing.. so that can just be considered a permanent buff as long as you have a healer doing just about anything short of outright sleeping in your group. Another notch in the coffin of the current choices for MW weapons.
  • myrinx
    myrinx Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    krzrsms said:

    Went to preview to check out more details onthe m13 weapon sets.

    May want to fix the broken weapon sets too..

    Tyrant set.. buffs are added every 3 seconds, not every 15 seconds. Even further the set bonus continues to be available after leaving combat, walking away, and changing weapons. Move on to another fight, start combat and guess what, you get the tyrannical bonus added still. :\ Quality work there.

    Primal set works with overhealing.. so that can just be considered a permanent buff as long as you have a healer doing just about anything short of outright sleeping in your group. Another notch in the coffin of the current choices for MW weapons.

    I am also seeing Tyrannical Charge stacking even after leaving combat and switching weapon sets. The stacks disappear but will start up again as soon as you enter a new fight. Fighting between different groups of spiders in Chult, I was able to have stacks of Tyrannical Charge AND Primal Response active at the same time.
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User

    Masterwork III Weapon set bonus now matches the I and II set bonuses.

    Same set bonuses and why do people want to buy it ? Or why do i want to improve my profession from mc3 to mc5?

    Well, I can only speak for myself, but as a DC, I want a good weapon set for solo play, and any of the new sets would have worked (some better than others) for that purpose, simply because of the increased base weapon damage. However, I also want a weapon that is suitable for my role as "support" in a group, and none of the new weapons would have worked for that purpose.

    So, I would have been stuck with having to switch between two weapon sets - one of the new ones for solo play and MW II for group play.... Two weapon sets, two sets of enchants and no improvement to damage in "group" mode.

    Now, the MW III set is all I (and people like me) need. This is why I really appreciate the change...but having said that, I know that the former MW III set bonus would have been interesting for some classes/builds, and I hope it gets re-introduced in the not-too-distant future.

    Hoping for improvements...
  • eclipseblood#1326
    eclipseblood#1326 Member Posts: 202 Arc User
    > @adinosii said:
    > Masterwork III Weapon set bonus now matches the I and II set bonuses.
    >
    > Same set bonuses and why do people want to buy it ? Or why do i want to improve my profession from mc3 to mc5?
    >
    > Well, I can only speak for myself, but as a DC, I want a good weapon set for solo play, and any of the new sets would have worked (some better than others) for that purpose, simply because of the increased base weapon damage. However, I also want a weapon that is suitable for my role as "support" in a group, and none of the new weapons would have worked for that purpose.
    >
    > So, I would have been stuck with having to switch between two weapon sets - one of the new ones for solo play and MW II for group play.... Two weapon sets, two sets of enchants and no improvement to damage in "group" mode.
    >
    > Now, the MW III set is all I (and people like me) need. This is why I really appreciate the change...but having said that, I know that the former MW III set bonus would have been interesting for some classes/builds, and I hope it gets re-introduced in the not-too-distant future.

    Or u could just use the mw ll set for grp play and just a random m13 set for solo play, just swap loadouts to a more dps oriented set up and u should be fine even in chult, dont see much point in spending millions of ad (probably) for the same bonus but increased stats and item lvl, the extra weapon damage doesnt appeal to me as a dc and i can pass up the extra stats/item lvl
  • adinosii
    adinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    Yes, I "could" use MW II for group play and a random m13 set for solo play, but as I said, that is annoying.
    • I would require an extra weapon enchant and an extra set of R13/R14 enchants....that's an annoying extra expense.
    • My damage in "group" mode would not improve. Now, my damage in group mode is of course not the reason I am there...but it helps, and being stuck with the old weapon while everyone else moves on to M13 would mean I do proportionally less damage than before...annoying
    Hoping for improvements...
  • baronstragen
    baronstragen Member Posts: 197 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    As a person who has had a CW since mod 2, and has seen going from the top of the DPS chart to the bottom, I just wanted to say something. NOT GOOD. I just ran 4 solo mob sets in EToS on my SS DPS build and got 124K enc DPS then switched to my MOF support build and got 168K enc DPS with the same mob sets. Thank you for breaking what didn't need fixing. Guess I'll go back to my MOF thaum.
    (SSDPS - Thaum/Ren) + T. Fey
    (MOF Support - Rene/Thaum) + T.Fey

    (Before the nerf, SSDPS with the same mob sets gave me 190K enc DPS)
    Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW
    Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
    Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
    JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
    Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
  • shockerizer
    shockerizer Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    Well, I have to echo some of the comments regarding the CW nerf. I play my CW exclusively so I was really looking forward to the Mod 13 updates.

    Now with the reduction in SS, makes things even more difficult for us SS mages. I really don't enjoy playing MOF as much so I plan to try and keep playing as a SS/whatever.

    Now with this being a general update thread and 90% of the posts dedicated to the CW problems, I am really hopeful that the devs will take all this into consideration. So many long term players (me since Beta) have chimed in with opinions and pretty good metrics showing the problems, maybe they will roll it back.

    Personally, I think leave the plan the same, SS crits with the same level of damage. Just boost MOF or increase it's debuff ability. With control being a non-starter in end game, that would give 2 solid avenues for CW.

  • mamalion1234
    mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,379 Arc User
    vlek91 said:


    For those saying in bis team you cant get a hi 10% of your life in single blow how much damage you get in that bis team from hati bleed?

    Zero. (you meant breath, right?)

    Drufi's wall and kabal's lava are the only items you listed that might actually work, all the others won't, especially nostura's curse, for many reasons.

    Unless primal keeps working for overheal, It'll be garbage.
    the damage overtime from hati the cleanse from a dc has 8 sec cooldown.
  • vlek91
    vlek91 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 8 Arc User

    vlek91 said:


    For those saying in bis team you cant get a hi 10% of your life in single blow how much damage you get in that bis team from hati bleed?

    Zero. (you meant breath, right?)

    Drufi's wall and kabal's lava are the only items you listed that might actually work, all the others won't, especially nostura's curse, for many reasons.

    Unless primal keeps working for overheal, It'll be garbage.
    the damage overtime from hati the cleanse from a dc has 8 sec cooldown.
    still zero.
  • jaime4312#3760
    jaime4312#3760 Member Posts: 844 Arc User
    edited February 2018
    > @chimerax said:
    > Welcome to SW land CWs, at least they are buffing SWs a tad in Mod 13.

    Even though CW is getting nerfed some, wouldn't comparing it to SW be exaggerated at least to some extent? I mean, at least as a striker, it should still hold true that CW > SW (like any other striker class lol). Scourge Warlocks attack in slow motion, their DoT ticks in slow motion for modest amounts of damage and it's far too long, let's not forget that class has almost non existant (let alone proper) dps Class Features, they're obscenely underpowered.
  • pterias
    pterias Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 661 Arc User
    The combined effects of Storm Spell critting but with a 30% damage nerf is that SS CWs above ~12k are getting buffed, with the buff amount being amplified the closer to BIS you are, while below ~12k SS CWs are getting nerfed with the severity of the nerf being amplified the lower your IL is. BIS SS CWs are gonna love this mod, while 8k SS CWs are gonna get decimated.

    Please reconsider this. Don't nerf Storm Spell damage. If you want SS and MoF closer together, just buff Smolder more, it could use it.
  • itbls
    itbls Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 121 Arc User
    pterias said:

    The combined effects of Storm Spell critting but with a 30% damage nerf is that SS CWs above ~12k are getting buffed, with the buff amount being amplified the closer to BIS you are, while below ~12k SS CWs are getting nerfed with the severity of the nerf being amplified the lower your IL is. BIS SS CWs are gonna love this mod, while 8k SS CWs are gonna get decimated.

    Please reconsider this. Don't nerf Storm Spell damage. If you want SS and MoF closer together, just buff Smolder more, it could use it.

    I'm actually not looking forward to cw changes for mod 13 now, CW SS hardly procs for single target now.. on live server its proccing nicely on bosses and on preview its barley proccing and now this dmg reduction smh, it should have been a 30% buff not a nerf. I'm probably gonna keep playing my support classes again since no ones gonna want to invite cw again for main dps. MoF cw's are the only ones that are getting invites and its probably gonna continue like this on mod 13 if they don't give us any dmg boosts for CW.
This discussion has been closed.