Thank you for advising me how to answer the questions after you asked them of me, before I had a chance to do so on my own but it wasn't really necessary... but if you already knew the answers why ask the questions in the first place?
I merely congratulated you for appearing to handle your annoyance so well month after month.
Update: Apparently, the vote-kick system is either broken or turned off.
I was running Cragmire Crypts today and a player simply left the dungeon and returned to the Protector's Enclave.
The remaining player and I reached the end of the dungeon easily... and technically all three of us could have been done and out of there. But... the two of us had to sit and wait for the AWOL player to decide to return to the dungeon. After waiting 5 minutes and receiving no response from the AWOL player, both of us attempted to initiate a vote-kick, but there was nothing. No error code. No vote-kick dialogue. Nothing.
The AWOL player did eventually decide to show up... without so much as a "sorry". But I can't understand the logic behind not letting parties remove disconnected/afk/unresponsive/noxious players.
"But it was just Cragmire Crypts. Its no big deal. Just quit the group and take the quitter's penalty."
That's not the point.
Sure, this could have just as easily happened in Valindra's Tower and screwed everybody over. But the issue here is the complete lack of consideration; or worse, the deliberate (non-verbal) trolling of genuine Neverwinter players.
I've seen this happen in Star Wars: The Old Republic and it was the reason why I left Star Wars: The Old Republic in favor of Neverwinter.
@ the Devs: Please, don't let group-content in Neverwinter become just as unplayable as that in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Neverwinter is so much better than this! Give the gamers the ability to give Freddy the Freeloaders the boot.
I was a little bit bored. Long weekend here, so I did try RED, for the first time in weeks. After a few half empty MSP groups and a FBI group I left, I entered ETOS. The kick timer does not work. We had a disconnected player and waited at the boss room. Before 10 minutes were over we tried to kick him, no luck. More of the same after 10 minutes. Somewhere between 10 and 15 minutes he left the group and we were able to enter.
RED is still a blast, cradle works perfectly for some European players (dont bother with mechanics, if you cant see them before you are dead) and the serpent weekly has the worst lags I ever experienced in this game. Good job everyone. I am sure, that it is a hell of a job, to program, for example, a working timer.
But I can't understand the logic behind not letting parties remove disconnected/afk/unresponsive/noxious players.
It is my understanding that there is supposed to be a method to remove disconnected/AFK and unresponsive players from random queues, if it is malfunctioning that would I think be an issue to pass on to tech support via the in game Help and Support function, not necessarily the forum where someone who could effect any correction might ( or might not) see the complaint.
As for why there isn't a method to address "noxious players", that I think is probably because there are as many different definitions of what actually constitutes a noxious player as there are there are players in Neverwinter, some honest and benign and others not so much.
Technically I'm not sure if a player who disconnected or intentionally left a random queue should be classified as a "freeloader", unless there is some indication a person intentionally disconnected and/or attempts to reconnect later to avoid doing any of the content and still tries to claim the reward at the end, but perhaps that's 'splitting hairs' as they say.
My thoughts of a freeloader is as I witnessed 04/02/2018 12:15PM CST Pirate King's Retreat dungeon, would be a level 67 GWF character, with a item level around 800 who stands still until the other members of the party engages mobs then attempts to run past, stopping before the next mob waiting for the other party members to engage them so they can once again run past. The CW also in our party was apparently from some French speaking country because of the few words of French I recognized I saw "tricheur" along with a few more well known cuss words.
As I mentioned, my personal definition of "freeloader" is my own and may not fit everyone elses definition... for instance I don't consider every slower, low level, or lesser geared player who has a different play-style to be a "freeloader". Nor do I consider myself knowledgeable enough to differentiate between intentional and not the player's fault disconnections, instances of AFK or identifying bots with any certainty...
Some things are possibly attributable to circumstances beyond a player's control - some things seem to be directly related to player behavior. The things I find memorable are the ones that appear to me to be directly related to a player's choices and behavior.
Like the level 67 character with level 800 gear who attempts to avoid every mob encounter they can when other party members engage them, I'd personally consider that to be pretty much a no brainer.
I think most people would consider a high level character, with low level gear who repeatedly attempts to avoid mobs by running by other party members battling mobs a freeloader, but despite of my disapproval of that person's apparently preferred play-style, I never once thought about kicking them out or excluding their participation in any content even though I did feel that player was taking advantage of an exploit (I can't really call it "cheating" since as you say it is part of the legit game mechanics) their antics were little more than an annoying inconvenience as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't go so far as to consider the GWF "scummy" and I would think it goes without being said most other players would consider that kind of behavior as inconsiderate of the other members of the group.
I highly doubt anyone would consider a level 67 player a "new player".
A new player may buy in with a pre-made level 70 character, but as far as I know no new player can buy a level 67 character.
I also highly doubt any player with a level 67 character who actually plays the game, would be so "unlucky in drops" as to have not a single piece of gear above level 43, but even at that a preference in play-style may be an acceptable explanation for their behavior... but waiting on the edge of mobs, then using the GWF speed to run past them when the other party members are engaged with them - that's overt and observable avoidance at the expense of the other party members and to me at least seems to be the very definition of an inconsiderate freeloader.
As for raging at the GWF for what I consider his inconsiderate preference in play-style, I personally would find that a bit petty, it is after all only a game and regardless of this person's play-style, every party member was able to accomplish what we queued in to do, run the dungeon, defeat the boss and get the reward at the end... albeit some of us appeared to do so with a bit more consideration of the other party members.
I almost feel bad when a low level character (yet apparently very experienced so far as the dungeon mechanics go) or a higher level character runs by my character and instead of just staying behind and handling mobs for them I follow and catch up with them so we can "share" the confronting the mob experience....
tried random dungeon for the first time in a long while... and yes, kicking doesnt seem to work. we had one person dc'ing at the very start of karrundax. when we got to the last boss, the door wouldnt open. i seem to remember that earlier on you could enter bosses rooms without a dc'ed player, but maybe i'm wrong. after waiting for a while, whether maybe the other person in the circle could kick the dc'ed one, i dc'd myself. coming back to that char a few minutes later i found i had a leavers penalty.
outcome: we couldnt finish karrundax and i was unable to start another dungeon one after that.
I've run multiple instances of the quest Caverns of Karrundax and in every instance where a player had either disconnected or appeared to have gone AFK the vote to kick option worked perfectly - after the allotted cool down time - I've also been able to call for reinforcements successfully without any problems.
I'm not doubting anyone when they claim the "kick timer is broken", just offering my personal observation that I have never had that problem myself in any of the dungeon runs I've participated in.
Now I have had instances where a player in the party claims the kick timer was "broken" or "needs to be fixed" because the allotted time had not expired and they wanted to kick another player out. I have also voted against kicking a slower player out of a dungeon as they appeared to still be making progress (albeit much slower progress) through a dungeon - but that had nothing to do with the timer being broken...
Of course saying that I recognize that there may indeed be some instances where the kick timer does not function properly for some players, glitches and malfunctions do happen, but my advice would be to lick your wounds, turn in a help ticket for something in the game that does not appear to be working properly and move on, especially since what we tend to see more often is a single person, complaining about a single instance, during a single run... it might just be me but this does not leave me inclined to believe real problem is with the game - or the timer.
I had a vote-kick issue in SpellPlague a while back. The HR and I (DC) had no issues, but the bot was barely a quarter of the way through. I tried to initiate the kick after multiple tells in both /t and /p. Nothing. the HR managed to get it started, though. The only thing I could possibly attribute it to was that they were party leader.
As for ilevel, I have no issue with low level characters coming along - they're there for the gear, and I'm happy to clear for them .Low item level isn't much of an issue in dungeons, but in skirmishes or epics is starting to make me spot check people. Nothing like wandering into a Throne skirmish with 4 others who have a combined gearscore that's *almost* as good as mine (16.5k). I'm even fine with a couple, but when it's an all-out, one toon carry? I'll pass.
@cdnbison; out of curiosity, what lead you to determine a player in your party was in fact a "bot", instead of someone playing differently than you thought they should be playing, or ignored your party/tell chat attempts because they simply had those features muted or possibly because they didn't speak your language and they just decided to just ignore you?
Attempting to chat someone up to try to determine if they are, or aren't a 'bot' is certainly a good thing in theory and one of my personally preferred tactics, but it is far-away proof that the person being chatted up is a bot if they don't reply.
Also I believe even a "party leader" can be removed if a majority kick votes goes against them... at least I believe I recall being able to remove an apparent AFK party leader or two from the party on occasion.
Comments
I'd say you're handling you're annoyance admirably, kudos.
I merely congratulated you for appearing to handle your annoyance so well month after month.
I was running Cragmire Crypts today and a player simply left the dungeon and returned to the Protector's Enclave.
The remaining player and I reached the end of the dungeon easily... and technically all three of us could have been done and out of there. But... the two of us had to sit and wait for the AWOL player to decide to return to the dungeon. After waiting 5 minutes and receiving no response from the AWOL player, both of us attempted to initiate a vote-kick, but there was nothing. No error code. No vote-kick dialogue. Nothing.
The AWOL player did eventually decide to show up... without so much as a "sorry". But I can't understand the logic behind not letting parties remove disconnected/afk/unresponsive/noxious players.
"But it was just Cragmire Crypts. Its no big deal. Just quit the group and take the quitter's penalty."
That's not the point.
Sure, this could have just as easily happened in Valindra's Tower and screwed everybody over. But the issue here is the complete lack of consideration; or worse, the deliberate (non-verbal) trolling of genuine Neverwinter players.
I've seen this happen in Star Wars: The Old Republic and it was the reason why I left Star Wars: The Old Republic in favor of Neverwinter.
@ the Devs: Please, don't let group-content in Neverwinter become just as unplayable as that in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Neverwinter is so much better than this! Give the gamers the ability to give Freddy the Freeloaders the boot.
RED is still a blast, cradle works perfectly for some European players (dont bother with mechanics, if you cant see them before you are dead) and the serpent weekly has the worst lags I ever experienced in this game. Good job everyone. I am sure, that it is a hell of a job, to program, for example, a working timer.
As for why there isn't a method to address "noxious players", that I think is probably because there are as many different definitions of what actually constitutes a noxious player as there are there are players in Neverwinter, some honest and benign and others not so much.
Technically I'm not sure if a player who disconnected or intentionally left a random queue should be classified as a "freeloader", unless there is some indication a person intentionally disconnected and/or attempts to reconnect later to avoid doing any of the content and still tries to claim the reward at the end, but perhaps that's 'splitting hairs' as they say.
My thoughts of a freeloader is as I witnessed 04/02/2018 12:15PM CST Pirate King's Retreat dungeon, would be a level 67 GWF character, with a item level around 800 who stands still until the other members of the party engages mobs then attempts to run past, stopping before the next mob waiting for the other party members to engage them so they can once again run past. The CW also in our party was apparently from some French speaking country because of the few words of French I recognized I saw "tricheur" along with a few more well known cuss words.
That is my definition of a "freeloader".
Some things are possibly attributable to circumstances beyond a player's control - some things seem to be directly related to player behavior. The things I find memorable are the ones that appear to me to be directly related to a player's choices and behavior.
Like the level 67 character with level 800 gear who attempts to avoid every mob encounter they can when other party members engage them, I'd personally consider that to be pretty much a no brainer.
I highly doubt anyone would consider a level 67 player a "new player".
A new player may buy in with a pre-made level 70 character, but as far as I know no new player can buy a level 67 character.
I also highly doubt any player with a level 67 character who actually plays the game, would be so "unlucky in drops" as to have not a single piece of gear above level 43, but even at that a preference in play-style may be an acceptable explanation for their behavior... but waiting on the edge of mobs, then using the GWF speed to run past them when the other party members are engaged with them - that's overt and observable avoidance at the expense of the other party members and to me at least seems to be the very definition of an inconsiderate freeloader.
As for raging at the GWF for what I consider his inconsiderate preference in play-style, I personally would find that a bit petty, it is after all only a game and regardless of this person's play-style, every party member was able to accomplish what we queued in to do, run the dungeon, defeat the boss and get the reward at the end... albeit some of us appeared to do so with a bit more consideration of the other party members.
Almost - but not quite.
outcome: we couldnt finish karrundax and i was unable to start another dungeon one after that.
I've run multiple instances of the quest Caverns of Karrundax and in every instance where a player had either disconnected or appeared to have gone AFK the vote to kick option worked perfectly - after the allotted cool down time - I've also been able to call for reinforcements successfully without any problems.
I'm not doubting anyone when they claim the "kick timer is broken", just offering my personal observation that I have never had that problem myself in any of the dungeon runs I've participated in.
Now I have had instances where a player in the party claims the kick timer was "broken" or "needs to be fixed" because the allotted time had not expired and they wanted to kick another player out. I have also voted against kicking a slower player out of a dungeon as they appeared to still be making progress (albeit much slower progress) through a dungeon - but that had nothing to do with the timer being broken...
Of course saying that I recognize that there may indeed be some instances where the kick timer does not function properly for some players, glitches and malfunctions do happen, but my advice would be to lick your wounds, turn in a help ticket for something in the game that does not appear to be working properly and move on, especially since what we tend to see more often is a single person, complaining about a single instance, during a single run... it might just be me but this does not leave me inclined to believe real problem is with the game - or the timer.
As for ilevel, I have no issue with low level characters coming along - they're there for the gear, and I'm happy to clear for them .Low item level isn't much of an issue in dungeons, but in skirmishes or epics is starting to make me spot check people. Nothing like wandering into a Throne skirmish with 4 others who have a combined gearscore that's *almost* as good as mine (16.5k). I'm even fine with a couple, but when it's an all-out, one toon carry? I'll pass.
Attempting to chat someone up to try to determine if they are, or aren't a 'bot' is certainly a good thing in theory and one of my personally preferred tactics, but it is far-away proof that the person being chatted up is a bot if they don't reply.
Also I believe even a "party leader" can be removed if a majority kick votes goes against them... at least I believe I recall being able to remove an apparent AFK party leader or two from the party on occasion.