Trickster Rogue Class Rework

sirjimbofrancis

Hi,
I'm glad the SWs got some attention, but where is the TR rework? We've been promised to be the next class worked on for a full year plus, now. Can we please please get some (any) communication regarding this? If you are working on it, great, we'd like some confirmation. If you are not working on it, and it has been shelved until several mods down the road, let us know that, too.

The TOTAL lack of communication is unacceptable. Thank you in advance.

@nitocris83

sikkmadejuggalo

Indeed. I’m glad the SW’s are getting there’s as they need it as well, but I am tired of having smoke blown up my <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> as I’m sure the rest of us are. Trickster Rogue players are arguably the most dedicated to the game, building toons all the way to end game that are often shunned for being TR’s as everyone is fully aware of the issues the class has. We aren’t asking for preferential treatment; all we want is for the devs to KEEP THEIR WORD, fix the well known issues we’ve been dealing with and to keep us in the loop. Anything less is akin to spitting in our faces.

zellina

i agree. We need an answer now. We are sick and tired of being pushed aside. I am tired of being laughed at coz I play TR, being told I should just give up playing as I’ll never get the rework. So dev it’s time to listen to the TRs and please please give us our rework that we have being asking for

blur

Any answer would be nice even if its a No. TR is doing fine in To9g dungeon and if same design of boss fights will remain in future then TR's meta doesnt need a rework. However, everything outside the meta needs some attention, would be nice if Sabo was a bit more competitive on boss fights, if Scoundrel worked in any PvE fights (capstone dmg buff separated from Daze).

Playing TR at top level requires a lot of knowledge and a lot of effort and fresh players who are starting as TRs might lack both and the class is unappealing for them. Stealth suggestion with additional severity would probably help the fresh players and the number of severity added doesnt have to be nowhere close to what was suggested but still a helpful option to consider.

October bug fix thread was nice, hopefully we get more of such. Glad the SWs are getting some attention too, similar problem to TR, lots of knowledge and effort required to perform well. More communication with players would be nice so we know what is being worked on.
Also, a lot of TR changes are going live without being mentioned in patch notes.

demonmonger

I personally ally enjoy playing my trickster rogue saboteur path. I would however love it if we had more damage bonuses while in stealth and possibly more base damage to our at wills and encounters.

Mainly I would love it if gloaming strike would attack faster, as the animation is just to slow to work in many cases.

My main focus is mobility/power/lifesteal

munch200375

Yeah basically all of the above. There's not nearly enough love for TR going on in this game, yet it IS one of the best classes out there if done right. Believe me I've tried them all...

fubarhansen

Hi,
I'm glad the SWs got some attention, but where is the TR rework? We've been promised to be the next class worked on for a full year plus, now. Can we please please get some (any) communication regarding this? If you are working on it, great, we'd like some confirmation. If you are not working on it, please let us know

The TOTAL lack of communication is unacceptable. Thank you in advance.

nocturia46

Love all the posts so far.. here is something I don't understand as well.. although the game is free to play there are still some of us who have spent money.. 5 bucks here .. there.. no matter how much you have spent you are a consumer.. I have heard others in disgust wanting the money back that they have put into this game.. you would think that when a dev puts in black and white to the consumer that they will be the next class to get a rework they should be held accountable.. in the real world if you pay for services and you do not get them restitution is made.... when you hold a discussion in a forum and a certain class objects and calls you out.. the disrespect of saying quiet from the peanut gallery should also have been addressed.. do you know that the other classes who were represented there also felt the ungrateful attitude of the individual hosting.. it's not very cool to disrespect people who are running live streams to try to help you as a dev to keep this game going.. your slap in the face was astounding.. trying to back pedal calling it an endearing term was ludicrous.. all this being said... hold up your end of the bargain that you put out there in black and white..

gromovnipljesak

One at a time, boys. The devs have acknowledged in a stream that they know that TRs and SWs are underpowered. SWs are just to a much worse degree - props to the ones who manage to do stuff. TRs on the other hand need a rework, but on a much smaller scale. With TRs, Executioner and Saboteur work to some degree - and can dish out decent DPS. SWs can't do anything, really, to the point where my guildmate threw away the SW main (which was 17k-ish) in favor of a much lower geared CW.

So yeah, just have patience. They're working hard on SWs, TRs' time will come. SW rework is scheduled for M13, if they do everything on time, TRs should be getting their buffs in M13b (or 13c if that becomes a thing) or M14, albeit M14 could possibly bring different changes related to level cap (or I hope so. that will be a massive change that would definitely make me happy if it's not Mod6 v.2)

jaime4312

@gromovnipljesak#8234

Mod 13 isn't a SW rework, tweaks are welcome of course but it will still be the worst damage dealer, I believe endgame teams may adopt the "run templock or gtfo" attitude towards us SWs as the upcoming tweaks benefit templock more than furylock especially if you consider the 2 dc groups nerf mentioned by @asterdahl , I suspect the meta may change to GF/OP, DC, renegade MoF CW/templock, longstrider trapper HR and GWF (edit: my bad here, wrote about meta with random queues in mind, those classes could do it for that and for private queie groups would be conqueror GF, OP, DC, longstrider trapper HR/MoF rene CW/templock and GWF)

Back on topic, both SW and TR indeed do need a rework and hopefully devs will take our feedback in mind to address the relevant issues the classes have otherwise it will change little if anything, as and example, for furylock, it will still be inferior to other damage dealers due to laughable passive powers (seriously, check/test them out and try not to laugh), too many debuffs (which get diminished to Oblivion), mediocre damage, long casting times/cooldowns and the capstone needs way too much time to deal full damage, as long as that isn't addressed SW will continue to be the worst class in the game.

I have read threads about TR reworks and found them something devs should keep in mind to tweak your class, it is undeniable you guys have been flat out trolled with those "TR is next for balancing" statements and this situation shouldn't happen any longer.

I don't think I'm the only one who believes devs should slow down with content creation and should focus on class reworks instead.

@nitocris83

The TR community deserves a quick dev response and at least for the time being, a few changes for mod 13 like SW, both classes will still need a rework in mod 13 - 13b though.

sirjimbofrancis

@gromovnipljesak#8234

We've been over this already. It's not that SWs are getting attention that we are upset about. It's that we've been misled over and over. It's the total lack of communication from "we are aware and are working on it" to "..." to "well we're gonna work on SWs now".

So, if we got the smallest consideration, here, the devs would tell us, "yes, we hear you, but SWs were in a worse place" or something along those lines. And, nothing of what you said takes away from the fact that they were misleading us when they said we were next.

I feel like a broken record. Communication is not bad. We are just really tired of getting the run around.

And, please stop with the poor SWs line. I know y'all are in a bad place. But, it wasn't that long ago when you all weren't. We haven't been in that position since mod 5.

gromovnipljesak

sirjimbofrancis said:

@gromovnipljesak#8234

We've been over this already. It's not that SWs are getting attention that we are upset about. It's that we've been misled over and over. It's the total lack of communication from "we are aware and are working on it" to "..." to "well we're gonna work on SWs now".

So, if we got the smallest consideration, here, the devs would tell us, "yes, we hear you, but SWs were in a worse place" or something along those lines. And, nothing of what you said takes away from the fact that they were misleading us when they said we were next.

I feel like a broken record. Communication is not bad. We are just really tired of getting the run around.

And, please stop with the poor SWs line. I know y'all are in a bad place. But, it wasn't that long ago when you all weren't. We haven't been in that position since mod 5.

The thing is, I'd rather have them 1st clear up everything they have with SW and then move on TRs, because the other option just overloading the devs to the point where they just go "HAMSTER it" and make something that will have to get changed again sooner or later (something like the bonding changes we've had). They already have acknowledged the fact that TRs need a rework. They just can't open another thread like they have for SWs because then the devs would be overburdened.

Also, TRs can still dish out pretty damn good DPS. SWs can't do HAMSTER. I say that as someone who play TR as 2nd main.

mafiadelperro

I want to hear any news have been waiting a long time atlease some words lot of effor to make characters in this game feels bad man

sirjimbofrancis

@gromovnipljesak#8234

How long ago is it, do you think, the TR community was told that we needed a rework? Just saying that and ignoring us for 6 months is unacceptable.

"TRs can dish out some pretty damn good DPS"

IF you are an endgame BIS TR and well geared and skilled, you will be out DPSed by GWFs, HRs, CWs, and GFs.

Again, no one is saying SWs don't need a rework, but if you all had been told that they were planning on working on SWs next, then nothing for months , and then they started working on TRs with no word to the SW community, you'd be rightfully ticked off as well.

sirjimbofrancis

@nitocris83 we've been asking for an update for a month now. Can you give us, the insatiable, something? Anything?

euphoricstar

I couldn't agree more with the comments I have been reading. I haven't been playing the game as long as most, a bit over a year, so I don't know of a time when TR's were BIS. I do, however, know that we are not where we should be. It feels like the cash cows of PvP are the reason the devs don't want to work on PVE TR. I have put so much time and effort and money into making my TR viable, and even though I can hold my own, I still get shunned because the majority of the community just looks at me and sees another crappy TR. I am not asking for the TR to be TOP Dps, I just want some confirmation, like the rest of my TR Army, that we will, or won't, be worked on. And like @sirjimbofrancis said, please give us, the insatiable, something. (I am still a little po'd by that comment, I can't tell you how many times I watched that)

mageddo

We need an answer on a time frame or that there isn't one. Not this public relations politician style speak of "it's planned". Yes, no or i.e. spring of 2018. Something. I play on console so still sitting on mod 12. Add to that people not wanting TRs in their To9g groups which has no valuable content until 12b with stones. So I haven't been streaming or playing neverwinter. I've been on the Xbox playing Skyforge. A rework would definitely bring me back. At this point I'll be surprised if I come back in January for 12b.
I know your running with a skeleton crew as you prepare and work on the Magic the gathering MMO. With all that's going on I can't help feeling that Neverwinter may be pushed aside for your new project. Without a response on the rework or a definitive time frame. It makes me wonder if the Neverwinter ship is being scuttled to make way for MTG.

lopsidedfool

I agree, I’m not mad that SWs are getting some attention, but the devs said the TR was next in line for a rework. I’ve completely disassembled my TR for my DC because no one wants a TR in endgame (even though my TR was endgame) I’ve had my TR since day one of Neverwinter being on xbox, and it has been a struggle. The class desperately needs a rework, and some answers on when would be nice.

socswimball13

It is ridiculous that we have not had any word on a TR rework after being told we are next on the list. I can't believe that any company would make a bold statement like that, then carry on nerfing, making changes to other class, and generally ignoring the concern of so many of their customers. I agree that the SW's need some love as well, but where is the love that we were promised MONTHS ago and have seen nothing of. This is a pathetic display of customer service and appreciation. At least inform your customers of your actual plans, rather than seemingly lying through your teeth just to appease people for a brief period of time. Don't keep going along and getting up people's hopes that we may see some changes that don't hurt us in PvE. We are clearly sick of being let down, and unhappy customers means less customers.

jaime4312

Skyforge became available for xbox 1 recently, I wouldn't be surprised at all if many fellow SWs and TRs switch to that game, heck, I reasearched about SW in that game actually and I found nothing but good comments about it, not the most powerful dps class there but still a very capable one, unlike the gimped version Neverwinter has. I'm gonna try that game in the next few days to see how it is, I will look how the TR version does there as well.

@nitocris83

Even if a short reply only, anything is better than this lack of communication from devs, there quite a few good TRs that have suggested good tweaks for the class but are yet to be given an answer.

trgluestickz

ctatumdev said:

sirjimbofrancis said:

Other TR bugs:
Shadowborn - This feat states that it is buffing our next attack, however any damage is calculated as the next attack including at will hits, Bleed ticks or Smoke Bomb ticks. Due to this it is wasted most of the time.

You are correct, this feat is mostly wasted since it gets 'used' on any damage; also, since it's increases stats, it doesn't really fit in with our other stat increasing feats, since this is a one-hit buff.

As such, this feat was discussed among our team and we've decided to rework Shadowborn:

Whenever you enter stealth, your next encounter or daily power deals an additional 5/10/15/20/25% damage as physical damage.

Two major reasons for this change is: First was to give y'all a clear, visible use of Shadowborn, so that this feat will no longer be wasted on DoT's or other unintended damages. The second reason for this change was so that this feat is more consistent with our other damage increasing feats. For us, having your stats rapidly flux for only one attack isn't a clean nor practical way to handle this feat.

We know there may be some discussions and concerns over this, but please note that this isn't going to be the end-all, be-all of Shadowborn. As we had promised y'all, Trickster Rogues are the next class up for a class balance. As such, during our balancing time, Shadowborn will be reviewed a second time to make sure that this change was the correct move for the TRs. This current change will be reviewed by our team, and by y'all, and we will make any further necessary changes based on how the new function of Shadowborn works for everyone.

The above quote was taken from a dev in the October bugfix thread. It does appear to be a confirmation that they still plan to rework the TR class first, this statement is better than nothing but whether or not they plan to abide by it is another story. It doesn't give us a specific date or much detail which at this point we should be asking for en masse. I see a lot of people here asking for far too little, we should be asking for a lot more than another "acknowledgement" at this point. I've heard all manner of "soon", "its on our radar", "we have read your words", and "TRs are next up" but the devs have been giving us these vague statements for well over a year now and a rework still hasn't happened. These statements would have been fine in the short term but its been far too long for them to be able to justify giving us so little information and continuing to put this off. We need a plan we can see, an official feedback thread, a date, and a real rework.

The devs have tried to claim that the reason this TR rework is taking so long is that all NW planning is done on a long term scale but this can't account for or excuse this long of a wait. Something else is at work and the reasons for this statement clearly have more to do with procrastination. Its a political calculation meant to stall the community from blowing up again until we either forget or they are eventually forced by player outrage to do what we ask. They stay vague in an attempt to promise as little as possible because they are scared to commit to anything real. You can throw a stigmatized view of their player base, knowledge gaps, a lack of bravery, and a low staff count into the mix of things at play here as well.

btairborne

Any stealth fixes for TRs in the last mod patch like CW teleport?

sabre10

I'm fed up waiting and with the non-committal platitudes that have periodically been posted by the dev team. It offers the TR community nothing by way of reassurance.
I'd like to see something solid by way of communication. As said above, even if this is planned for 1-2 modules time, so be it. Being left in limbo is not acceptable behaviour in my mind.
No communication will just lead to further and further disenfranchisement by the community

gromovnipljesak

Bah. Arguing with you people is pointless. Cheerios.

ravenskya

I love how once again they are silent

sirjimbofrancis

It's been a few days since we started this thread, @nitocris83

Are we any closer to communication?

seffron

I think it was spoken in the live streams, so they are aware with it. They even showed some pictures of how people asking TR buffs. One can only say, to be patient. I'm sure there will be updates when changes are ready to be released. Same time it takes time to fix the class, it must be balanced or we might end up next wave of nerf TR to the point of you broke it again...

Over all I do agree it needs much more love right now.

sirjimbofrancis

@seffron#4586 we've been promised a rework for over a year, now.

Those live streams were months ago. The whole point is we've been asking for an update and getting nothing.
I think we've been pretty patient.

almondum

I understand your frustration and agree with your request. Unfortunatly and without meaning to offend any part (devs or players), I don't believe we will get an answer.
If nothing has been done, it's against any company's policy to say "nothing has been done/is being doing", if something has been done but it's too "crude" and very uncertain, nothing will be said either as it might be hard later to "keep the end of the bargain" for something uncertain.

Good luck to you all,
Have fun,

Almondum.

sirjimbofrancis

@almondum I disagree.

If they aren't working on it, they could say to us that they haven't forgotten about us, but are planning on addressing the TR class in a future mod as yet to be determined.

If they are working on it, they can tell us they are working on it, but it is still being tested before they release the changes on preview.

We aren't asking for details. Just the tiniest amount of communication and consideration for a class where the only communication we've gotten on the subject (in literally years) has been either incorrect or misleading.

It doesn't have to be good news, just some news.

almondum

@sirjimbofrancis

You may disagree, but that won't change their policy or the policy of other companies. Noone will ever tell you in public or through public means that "nothing has been done". It will simply cost them their job. This is the reality.
Have in mind, I'm not defending anyone here, just speaking how the things are mostly.

edit: typos