Trickster Rogue Class Rework

maxthakilla

> @gromovnipljesak#8234 I am Baneofhate@maxthakilla look me up. I was BIS before 12b. Only VERY few (2-3) TR ever beat my PVE dmg in the 3 years i've been playing. I think i know what i am doing. The fact is that Lashing Blade does'nt hit nearly as hard as it should and we definitely lack of burst dmg.

BTW someone in-game (i will not reveal his identity) told me that his friend is a GM and that the TR fix/buff is officially confirmed and planned to be between jan and march 2018. I have no official proofs but his statement seemed sincere. Thats the closest i got to a confirmation so far... (sad i know) but hopefully someone with an official title can confirm this.

gromovnipljesak

maxthakilla said:

> @gromovnipljesak#8234 I am Baneofhate@maxthakilla look me up. I was BIS before 12b. Only VERY few (2-3) TR ever beat my PVE dmg in the 3 years i've been playing. I think i know what i am doing. The fact is that Lashing Blade does'nt hit nearly as hard as it should and we definitely lack of burst dmg.



BTW someone in-game (i will not reveal his identity) told me that his friend is a GM and that the TR fix/buff is officially confirmed and planned to be between jan and march 2018. I have no official proofs but his statement seemed sincere. Thats the closest i got to a confirmation so far... (sad i know) but hopefully someone with an official title can confirm this.

Dunno man. I've played with a LOT of TRs, and a guildmate of mine hits stupidly hard.
Just for a comparison, a 17.3k GWF does about 400m damage more than me. This TR is about the same IL - 17.4 to 17.5. He doubles my DPS. I wish I snipped a pic of the paingiver chart.

jrdiiorio

> @maxthakilla said:
> > @gromovnipljesak#8234 I am Baneofhate@maxthakilla look me up. I was BIS before 12b. Only VERY few (2-3) TR ever beat my PVE dmg in the 3 years i've been playing. I think i know what i am doing. The fact is that Lashing Blade does'nt hit nearly as hard as it should and we definitely lack of burst dmg.
>
> BTW someone in-game (i will not reveal his identity) told me that his friend is a GM and that the TR fix/buff is officially confirmed and planned to be between jan and march 2018. I have no official proofs but his statement seemed sincere. Thats the closest i got to a confirmation so far... (sad i know) but hopefully someone with an official title can confirm this.

I call bs on this date. If they were that close why not mention something and throw trs a bone with any sort of comment confirming this. Unless they enjoy hearing us complain over and over again their silence is a sign of guilt imo.

micky1p00

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

maxthakilla said:

> @gromovnipljesak#8234 I am Baneofhate@maxthakilla look me up. I was BIS before 12b. Only VERY few (2-3) TR ever beat my PVE dmg in the 3 years i've been playing. I think i know what i am doing. The fact is that Lashing Blade does'nt hit nearly as hard as it should and we definitely lack of burst dmg.



BTW someone in-game (i will not reveal his identity) told me that his friend is a GM and that the TR fix/buff is officially confirmed and planned to be between jan and march 2018. I have no official proofs but his statement seemed sincere. Thats the closest i got to a confirmation so far... (sad i know) but hopefully someone with an official title can confirm this.

Dunno man. I've played with a LOT of TRs, and a guildmate of mine hits stupidly hard.
Just for a comparison, a 17.3k GWF does about 400m damage more than me. This TR is about the same IL - 17.4 to 17.5. He doubles my DPS. I wish I snipped a pic of the paingiver chart.

Oh, it's like those riddles, "If Danny is 5 years older than Lucy, and Bob is twice the age of Danny, but something something.."

You do 100m, the TR 200m, and the other GWF 500m?

gromovnipljesak

micky1p00 said:

gromovnipljesak#8234 said:

maxthakilla said:

> @gromovnipljesak#8234 I am Baneofhate@maxthakilla look me up. I was BIS before 12b. Only VERY few (2-3) TR ever beat my PVE dmg in the 3 years i've been playing. I think i know what i am doing. The fact is that Lashing Blade does'nt hit nearly as hard as it should and we definitely lack of burst dmg.



BTW someone in-game (i will not reveal his identity) told me that his friend is a GM and that the TR fix/buff is officially confirmed and planned to be between jan and march 2018. I have no official proofs but his statement seemed sincere. Thats the closest i got to a confirmation so far... (sad i know) but hopefully someone with an official title can confirm this.

Dunno man. I've played with a LOT of TRs, and a guildmate of mine hits stupidly hard.
Just for a comparison, a 17.3k GWF does about 400m damage more than me. This TR is about the same IL - 17.4 to 17.5. He doubles my DPS. I wish I snipped a pic of the paingiver chart.

Oh, it's like those riddles, "If Danny is 5 years older than Lucy, and Bob is twice the age of Danny, but something something.."

You do 100m, the TR 200m, and the other GWF 500m?

The thing is, he compares quite well to other GWFs. Just like you could say that he's over-performing, I could say that everyone else is under-performing. The thing is, almost no TRs can achieve the peak DPS, but this guy can. What devs need to change isn't the numbers,but how easy it is to utilize every single ability they have. Inconsistency is the issue here.

maxthakilla

Of course I compare to the average GWF but its not normal that i need to be BIS and super experienced to be able to compare myself to an average GWF. I should out dps half of the BIS and best GWF on the server and maybe even more than half since it is harder to play a TR perfectly plus we are way squishier but that does'nt happen at all.. they do 2x my dmg while being mini tanks and mostly immune to CC. So yea.

armadeonx

As most trash mobs last appx 3-6 seconds in T2-T3 content, why not change the class feature First Strike to provide its damage bonus for the first 5 seconds in-combat instead of just the first hit?

It would be easy enough to swap in & out for boss fights.

sirjimbofrancis

armadeonx said:

As most trash mobs last appx 3-6 seconds in T2-T3 content, why not change the class feature First Strike to provide its damage bonus for the first 5 seconds in-combat instead of just the first hit?

It would be easy enough to swap in & out for boss fights.

I agree, but the PvP community would probably have a collective conniption fit over it. Probably...

micky1p00

armadeonx said:

As most trash mobs last appx 3-6 seconds in T2-T3 content, why not change the class feature First Strike to provide its damage bonus for the first 5 seconds in-combat instead of just the first hit?

It would be easy enough to swap in & out for boss fights.

IMO, the current class features are ok, at least good portion of those, even those that most are not regularly using, like tenacious, skillfull, tactics, etc.. are mostly can be used situationaly, in a build, or by preference. There are few that are very underwhelming, but the majority are ok.
So I don't think that touching those is the way, as it wont fix the issue for SoD. It will however make swaping to sabo on mobs a necessity (better synergy for full health burst). And honestly I don't want to swap each campfire a path and complete playstyle just to keep up.
I'm to tired for this, and the game is not a long lost job..

SoD as self buff can work great, without all the fancy accumulation stuff, or per second ticks, or proc all the damage if accumulated more than the mob HP, and or make it on multiple targets like it once was.

Currently it's a PvP mess that I don't want to express opinion about. And flawed in PvE.

In general, IMO, the high rank feats and capstones should reflect more the concept of the path. If it should be something tank, the capstone should be a must, if it's a buff tree, the capstone should reflect that, and with that more specialized trees.
It's absurd that right now we use t3 scoundarel back ally tactics instead of T5 Exe for exe build... Anyone ever considered to take Exposed Weakness? And we all know the issues with shadowborn. And twisted grin, vs
back ally tactics?

I rather stop now before I'll say something explicit about those feats..

trgluestickz

sirjimbofrancis said:

armadeonx said:

As most trash mobs last appx 3-6 seconds in T2-T3 content, why not change the class feature First Strike to provide its damage bonus for the first 5 seconds in-combat instead of just the first hit?

It would be easy enough to swap in & out for boss fights.

I agree, but the PvP community would probably have a collective conniption fit over it. Probably...

This first strike idea might be viable with proper PVP safeguards in place. To be honest, I wouldn't care if first strike was outright replaced with a new passive but reworking it could turn out ok as well.

In PVP, first strike was used to power up shocking execution mainly. I think it may still be in use today for powering up SOD with a quick big hit but I'm not sure.

In PVP, having the dps bonus from first strike for 5 seconds would mean we could power up a SOD proc with multiple first strike buffed hits instead of just 1. This would mean SOD would hit even harder in PVP than it does now. Our other attacks would also be significantly stronger during that 5 sec window but I'm unsure if our other attacks by themselves would become OP or not.

A possible solution to this concern is to reduce how big the first strike damage buff is in PVP in exchange for raising the time window to 5 seconds for both PVE and PVP. Perhaps it should be halved in PVP as an example. This should be paired with toning down SOD in PVP.

SE has been out of commission in PVP ever since the piercing damage nerf so first strike's time window getting increased won't bring back one shot kill SE hits. Though it might make SE viable as part of a multipower killing combo.

trgluestickz

I recently dug up some PVE class polls that were conducted in August and early September 2017. One of those poll sets may be relevant in this thread and would be a good thing to pass to the devs. These will likely be of interest to TRs too, scroll sideways for additional TR polls:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OcCbucNRHosp4iYhbYOOd2_pmMqBsG57hXQuZbrd2bw/edit#gid=232291586

I also fetched the TR rework suggestions thread that multiple TRs collaborated on earlier this year. This is probably the single most important feedback and ideas thread that has been done on TRs within the last year. If a dev is reading this thread, I hope you have a copy of this old rework thread saved since it contains a lot of useful info. Some of this info is outdated but much of it is still good:

https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1229772/trickster-rogue-class-balance-suggestions