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New epic dungeon random Queue

mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 935 Arc User
edited October 2017 in General Discussion (PC)
Hi,

Will the new epic dungeon random queue prevent players that have not done msp or fbi on any of their toons to do the queue. that will mean that new players will be punished with a serious RAD reduction from dungeons.

Fortunately this will not affect me but i can see this as a big hurdel fo new players.

I really hope i am wrong with this. Expecting that a rank 70 player only do 3man/normal dungeons for ad is not right.
There are more than BIS players in this game
RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



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Comments

  • pitshadepitshade Member Posts: 5,590 Arc User
    In order for a character to use the RQ for Epic Dungeons, they MUST have 11k TIL (to qualify for FBI/MSP) and 30% Everfrost Resist (to qualify for FBI). Additionally, at least one character on the account must have unlocked both FBI and MSP in the campaign. If any of these conditions aren't met, the character can not enter the random queue for Epic Dungeons.

    And yes, this is going to be very bad for a lot of players. The only ones who will actually benefit are those geared/wealthy/connected enough to not be reliant on the RAD bonus.
    "We have always been at war with Dread Vault" ~ Little Brother
  • zomak#4611 zomak Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    It's all about selling those campaign completion packs. Of course that still won't help their gear situation. I would hate to be a new level 70 when this goes live.
  • zeref555zeref555 Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    Yeah, I've been playing for 3 months and this will impact me extremely. I almost solely rely on RAD from dungeons to survive. If they cut the little amount of AD I already make, my game's experience will be absolute HAMSTER. This is something that is making me considering to quit even though I have hundreds and hundreds of hours of game time...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,362 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    You still can get the AD you are getting now. What you will need to do will be running 3-man Level Random Queue (LRQ) once per day (vs twice per day now). You will get the same amount of AD as running a Epic RQ (ERQ). Are you willing to run the boring Level Dungeon is a different question. If what you want is about AD, what you lose is 10 minutes of time to run a LRQ per day.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 935 Arc User
    I understand your point @plasticbat . I just feel this will ruin the new mystery factor to low level characters with 15k characters burning through everything. with 2 players doing there 1st dungeon.

    We will not only loose players due to nerf but new players will find dungeons boring and leave too.
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • reg1981reg1981 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    For me this is a good thing. I don't have MSP unlocked yet but I'm not far off. It's the fact that I can take alts through a 3 man dungeon once for similar rewards as running it once! You all know that the queue will pop fast and MOST will be there for a speed run! Yes, we'll still hit some new players that wish to explore the dungeon but overall I see an improvement to the speed of aquiring my AD bonus!
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,362 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    reg1981 said:

    For me this is a good thing. I don't have MSP unlocked yet but I'm not far off. It's the fact that I can take alts through a 3 man dungeon once for similar rewards as running it once! You all know that the queue will pop fast and MOST will be there for a speed run! Yes, we'll still hit some new players that wish to explore the dungeon but overall I see an improvement to the speed of aquiring my AD bonus!

    Use the channel (guild/alliance/public) to form a 3-man pre-made party. Everyone knows not to pick up anything, run to the door to do one battle to proceed, not to fight anything before reaching the door. "lfm l70 d2d lrq". In this way, newbie will not be in "accidentally" and destroy their exploration experience.

    One can set up a "L70_D2D_LRQ" (Level 70 Door to Door Level dungeon Random Queue) channel.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    I won't be using the Random Queue. It's Pugs on Drugs.
  • maxzius#3795 maxzius Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    > @plasticbat said:
    > You still can get the AD you are getting now. What you will need to do will be running 3-man Level Random Queue (LRQ) once per day (vs twice per day now). You will get the same amount of AD as running a Epic RQ (ERQ). Are you willing to run the boring Level Dungeon is a different question. If what you want is about AD, what you lose is 10 minutes of time to run a LRQ per day.


    Would you please stop with this. Seriously. While what you keep saying is true, it's misleading as hell because all of these players who can only get into the normal dungeon are missing out on the bonus RAD from all of the other Qs. You know this already and you keep trying to sell this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
  • mirlegrismirlegris Member Posts: 309 Arc User

    You still can get the AD you are getting now. What you will need to do will be running 3-man Level Random Queue (LRQ) once per day (vs twice per day now).

    2x epic or 3-man dungeon in mod 12 net you 16K AD with invoc bonus and vip, without salvaging.
    1x 3-man dungeon in mod 12b net you 12K AD with invoc bonus and vip.

    Not exactly an improvement, i think, since a 1x RQ dungeon can take more time than 2x solo private 3-man run or 2x private Epic dungeon in guild.

  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,362 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    mirlegris said:

    You still can get the AD you are getting now. What you will need to do will be running 3-man Level Random Queue (LRQ) once per day (vs twice per day now).

    2x epic or 3-man dungeon in mod 12 net you 16K AD with invoc bonus and vip, without salvaging.
    1x 3-man dungeon in mod 12b net you 12K AD with invoc bonus and vip.

    Not exactly an improvement, i think, since a 1x RQ dungeon can take more time than 2x solo private 3-man run or 2x private Epic dungeon in guild.

    Are you saying ONE 3-man level dungeon (not higher than level 53) RQ run will take more time than TWO dungeon runs?
    I personally checked every level dungeons in solo with different toons (GWF, TR, OP, DC, SW). All of them can be finished in 10 minutes if you do door to door, don't pick up anything, don't fight anything until reaching the door. If the 3-men party is formed privately and everyone cooperate, in theory, that should be shorter. The more 'practice' people will do, it will even be shorter just like doing all the shortcut in ETOS, cloak tower, etc.

    You can form your own party to do LRQ.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,362 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    > @plasticbat said:

    > You still can get the AD you are getting now. What you will need to do will be running 3-man Level Random Queue (LRQ) once per day (vs twice per day now). You will get the same amount of AD as running a Epic RQ (ERQ). Are you willing to run the boring Level Dungeon is a different question. If what you want is about AD, what you lose is 10 minutes of time to run a LRQ per day.





    Would you please stop with this. Seriously. While what you keep saying is true, it's misleading as hell because all of these players who can only get into the normal dungeon are missing out on the bonus RAD from all of the other Qs. You know this already and you keep trying to sell this HAMSTER.

    First, what am I selling? Am I making people to like RQ?

    Many people thought they will not get AD from dungeon because they could not do FBI.
    I am telling people that is not true. Should they be mislead by the statement "they would get no AD from dungeon"?
    Should I not point out that is not true? Was my information not helpful?

    The person talked about dungeon and I was talking about dungeon. This thread is about dungeon.
    If you want me to add a disclaimer about skirmish, I can.
    Post edited by plasticbat on
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • karvarekarvare Member Posts: 264 Arc User
    What is the time limit set for FBI to avoid the penalty? How long do you have to wait, while failing, for the vote?
  • nevfenevfe Member Posts: 214 Arc User
    It's FUBAR that you have to have ALL the epic dungeons unlocked to be able to use the random queue. Though to be honest the idea of having to do a campaign for a month just to do a new dungeon is screwed up anyway. Some people like campaign zones, some people prefer dungeons, don't force people to play one type of content to be able to do the other.

    And what happens with the next mod to have a campaign-locked dungeon? Will the random queue be unavailable for everyone for the first month or two then?
  • ontheleftcoast#2086 ontheleftcoast Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    nevfe said:

    It's FUBAR that you have to have ALL the epic dungeons unlocked to be able to use the random queue. Though to be honest the idea of having to do a campaign for a month just to do a new dungeon is screwed up anyway. Some people like campaign zones, some people prefer dungeons, don't force people to play one type of content to be able to do the other.

    And what happens with the next mod to have a campaign-locked dungeon? Will the random queue be unavailable for everyone for the first month or two then?

    They need to put them back in tiers.. Players should not need 11K gear to run Malabog's Castle. Of course after the insane Nerf Hammer to bonding maybe they do? What happened to the concept of Tier I, II, etc. dungeons? This entire 12b release is a disaster on several fronts. But nobody at Cryptic or PWE will admit it and the players will be forced to adapt or quit.
  • wintersmokewintersmoke Member Posts: 1,641 Arc User

    It's all about selling those campaign completion packs. Of course that still won't help their gear situation. I would hate to be a new level 70 when this goes live.

    Or you could get the relic gear.
  • revan06100revan06100 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    You still can get the AD you are getting now. What you will need to do will be running 3-man Level Random Queue (LRQ) once per day (vs twice per day now). You will get the same amount of AD as running a Epic RQ (ERQ). Are you willing to run the boring Level Dungeon is a different question. If what you want is about AD, what you lose is 10 minutes of time to run a LRQ per day.


    But that is the whole point, it is boring, insanely easy, and on top of being boring and pointlessly easy, you can only queue with 2 mates instead of 4.
    You indeed have to choose between your AD income, and a little bit of fun, well to me, we should not have to choose, this is one of the worst choice they ever made (not quoting the other ones, don't want to get into different subjects...)
    At least, leave the new random system, but let the players choose the dungeon they are running.
    Sometimes people don't have much time to run dungeons, they could choose to run an ELOL for exemple, but they would end up in FBI? Or one of the player in the party does not meet the requirements ? He is left out ? No, this is a terrible new system, and i'm not even on about AD incomes...

  • lemartes99lemartes99 Member Posts: 30 Arc User
    I usually play this game with my kids - we don't have every dungeon unlocked so we can't do the random ques. On top of that they don't work with private groups (which we always use).

    I don't understand this change - why not just have Random ques that give 7k and leave the old system in place as well. That way if you can run the random - great you get your daily AD in 1 run instead of 2.

    Why punish players who don't want to group with randoms ?

    Willing to wait for a month - but if it stays the way it is I can't see myself staying in this game.
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 935 Arc User
    karvare said:

    What is the time limit set for FBI to avoid the penalty? How long do you have to wait, while failing, for the vote?

    15 minutes
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    mynaam said:


    People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    This annoys me the most so far. They should time out the disconnects sooner. And give the leaver penalty for disconnects. Sure there are legit disconnects. But it seems there are way more abusers at the moment.

    If the devs want to push more people thru the queues, then clear the disconnects sooner so more people can have a chance to join.

  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Member Posts: 2,109 Arc User
    mynaam said:


    People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    This annoys me the most so far. They should time out the disconnects sooner. And give the leaver penalty for disconnects. Sure there are legit disconnects. But it seems there are way more abusers at the moment.

    If the devs want to push more people thru the queues, then clear the disconnects sooner so more people can have a chance to join.

  • mentinmindmakermentinmindmaker Member Posts: 1,455 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    What annoys me most about RQ is that the AD grind suddenly got more boring.

    I used to do 2+2, and could to some extent pick what challenge level I wanted depending on my mood and available time. And since I mostly am lazy and just join a PUG that could in some cases make runs quite challenging.

    Now I have to do 1 levelling dungeon, which is a boring run-through.
    I also have to do one skirmish, which also can be a boring run-through.

    And when I get to the epic dungeon, in many cases it is just to eat the leaver penalty and move on to next character to repeat the boring levelling dungeon and easy skirmish run-throughs. The probability of getting a functional team in a PUG for mSP and FBI is close to 0 with the current IL requirements. Even the less used T2s can be a challenge, there is a reason eGWD and eCC is less used - they also can be nontrivial with a weak team.

    I did not even bother to sign up for the epic trials yet.
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 935 Arc User

    mynaam said:


    People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    This annoys me the most so far. They should time out the disconnects sooner. And give the leaver penalty for disconnects. Sure there are legit disconnects. But it seems there are way more abusers at the moment.

    If the devs want to push more people thru the queues, then clear the disconnects sooner so more people can have a chance to join.

    The ban should be acount wide and initiated if dc'd for more than 1 minute
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    mynaam said:

    As Predictated it is a massive failure due to:

    1. People are zerging the 3man dungeon ruining experience for new players
    2. People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    3. I waited 1 Hour for reinforcements in a dungeon ... do not tell me noone tried Random Q in 1 hour
    4. 4 players that don't have a clue what to do and are not equiped to handle a dungeon is q'd with you

    EDIT: : Oh and honorable mention you can't use your epic keys in the random Normal dungeons
    I am >70 player.
    I had a good experience with RQ yesterday, both in 3-man dungeon (i checked the ilevel of other players first and they were all >70 so we just ran through it) and in 5-man dungeon (Kessel and VT).
    I waited for less than 3 minutes for the 5-man-dungeon on both my dps and DC characters. All runs were flawless and quick even if I was main dpser on both my DPS and DC.
    Sure it could have been way more difficult if a high-tier dungeon had been selected but I believe the "chance" of getting them is lowered.

    We also made premade groups for skirmishes random queues and it was all good.
    We also made premade groups for selected epic dungeons as usual.
    Nothing has really changed for me.

    I even think it can vivify the pug system that was dying because of the lack of trust among players.
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 935 Arc User

    mynaam said:

    As Predictated it is a massive failure due to:

    1. People are zerging the 3man dungeon ruining experience for new players
    2. People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    3. I waited 1 Hour for reinforcements in a dungeon ... do not tell me noone tried Random Q in 1 hour
    4. 4 players that don't have a clue what to do and are not equiped to handle a dungeon is q'd with you

    EDIT: : Oh and honorable mention you can't use your epic keys in the random Normal dungeons
    I am >70 player.
    I had a good experience with RQ yesterday, both in 3-man dungeon (i checked the ilevel of other players first and they were all >70 so we just ran through it) and in 5-man dungeon (Kessel and VT).
    I waited for less than 3 minutes for the 5-man-dungeon on both my dps and DC characters. All runs were flawless and quick even if I was main dpser on both my DPS and DC.
    Sure it could have been way more difficult if a high-tier dungeon had been selected but I believe the "chance" of getting them is lowered.

    We also made premade groups for skirmishes random queues and it was all good.
    We also made premade groups for selected epic dungeons as usual.
    Nothing has really changed for me.

    I even think it can vivify the pug system that was dying because of the lack of trust among players.
    I am glad you had a good experiece. Let me clarify what i meant with ruin for new players.

    When a new player play a dungeon for the first time (even their 1st dungeon) it is fun to explore and learn the mechanics of the dungeon if people are just going to zerg it this is impossible. Also one of the reasons for these dungeons used to be to learn the mechanics of the epic version. this does not happen and then mess up the new players first epic dungeon experience
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    mynaam said:

    As Predictated it is a massive failure due to:

    1. People are zerging the 3man dungeon ruining experience for new players
    2. People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    3. I waited 1 Hour for reinforcements in a dungeon ... do not tell me noone tried Random Q in 1 hour
    4. 4 players that don't have a clue what to do and are not equiped to handle a dungeon is q'd with you

    EDIT: : Oh and honorable mention you can't use your epic keys in the random Normal dungeons
    I am >70 player.
    I had a good experience with RQ yesterday, both in 3-man dungeon (i checked the ilevel of other players first and they were all >70 so we just ran through it) and in 5-man dungeon (Kessel and VT).
    I waited for less than 3 minutes for the 5-man-dungeon on both my dps and DC characters. All runs were flawless and quick even if I was main dpser on both my DPS and DC.
    Sure it could have been way more difficult if a high-tier dungeon had been selected but I believe the "chance" of getting them is lowered.

    We also made premade groups for skirmishes random queues and it was all good.
    We also made premade groups for selected epic dungeons as usual.
    Nothing has really changed for me.
    mynaam said:

    mynaam said:

    As Predictated it is a massive failure due to:

    1. People are zerging the 3man dungeon ruining experience for new players
    2. People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    3. I waited 1 Hour for reinforcements in a dungeon ... do not tell me noone tried Random Q in 1 hour
    4. 4 players that don't have a clue what to do and are not equiped to handle a dungeon is q'd with you

    EDIT: : Oh and honorable mention you can't use your epic keys in the random Normal dungeons
    I am >70 player.
    I had a good experience with RQ yesterday, both in 3-man dungeon (i checked the ilevel of other players first and they were all >70 so we just ran through it) and in 5-man dungeon (Kessel and VT).
    I waited for less than 3 minutes for the 5-man-dungeon on both my dps and DC characters. All runs were flawless and quick even if I was main dpser on both my DPS and DC.
    Sure it could have been way more difficult if a high-tier dungeon had been selected but I believe the "chance" of getting them is lowered.

    We also made premade groups for skirmishes random queues and it was all good.
    We also made premade groups for selected epic dungeons as usual.
    Nothing has really changed for me.

    I even think it can vivify the pug system that was dying because of the lack of trust among players.
    I am glad you had a good experiece. Let me clarify what i meant with ruin for new players.

    When a new player play a dungeon for the first time (even their 1st dungeon) it is fun to explore and learn the mechanics of the dungeon if people are just going to zerg it this is impossible. Also one of the reasons for these dungeons used to be to learn the mechanics of the epic version. this does not happen and then mess up the new players first epic dungeon experience
    That's why I checked first the item level and gear of other players in the normal TOS I got as random. We melted everything till the end.

    As for the VT and Kessel, I must confess I ran a bit ahead but at least, the dungeons were cleared quickly ^^. It is the same as pug life before mod 12b.
    Hopefully more experienced >70 players will contribute to this new system instead of sulking in a corner.
    I don't even need shards for stronghold btw.

    And anyway, you can pre-make a group.


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