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New epic dungeon random Queue

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  • revan06100revan06100 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited October 2017

    mynaam said:

    As Predictated it is a massive failure due to:

    1. People are zerging the 3man dungeon ruining experience for new players
    2. People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    3. I waited 1 Hour for reinforcements in a dungeon ... do not tell me noone tried Random Q in 1 hour
    4. 4 players that don't have a clue what to do and are not equiped to handle a dungeon is q'd with you

    EDIT: : Oh and honorable mention you can't use your epic keys in the random Normal dungeons
    I am >70 player.
    I had a good experience with RQ yesterday, both in 3-man dungeon (i checked the ilevel of other players first and they were all >70 so we just ran through it) and in 5-man dungeon (Kessel and VT).
    I waited for less than 3 minutes for the 5-man-dungeon on both my dps and DC characters. All runs were flawless and quick even if I was main dpser on both my DPS and DC.
    Sure it could have been way more difficult if a high-tier dungeon had been selected but I believe the "chance" of getting them is lowered.

    We also made premade groups for skirmishes random queues and it was all good.
    We also made premade groups for selected epic dungeons as usual.
    Nothing has really changed for me.
    mynaam said:

    mynaam said:

    As Predictated it is a massive failure due to:

    1. People are zerging the 3man dungeon ruining experience for new players
    2. People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    3. I waited 1 Hour for reinforcements in a dungeon ... do not tell me noone tried Random Q in 1 hour
    4. 4 players that don't have a clue what to do and are not equiped to handle a dungeon is q'd with you

    EDIT: : Oh and honorable mention you can't use your epic keys in the random Normal dungeons
    I am >70 player.
    I had a good experience with RQ yesterday, both in 3-man dungeon (i checked the ilevel of other players first and they were all >70 so we just ran through it) and in 5-man dungeon (Kessel and VT).
    I waited for less than 3 minutes for the 5-man-dungeon on both my dps and DC characters. All runs were flawless and quick even if I was main dpser on both my DPS and DC.
    Sure it could have been way more difficult if a high-tier dungeon had been selected but I believe the "chance" of getting them is lowered.

    We also made premade groups for skirmishes random queues and it was all good.
    We also made premade groups for selected epic dungeons as usual.
    Nothing has really changed for me.

    I even think it can vivify the pug system that was dying because of the lack of trust among players.
    I am glad you had a good experiece. Let me clarify what i meant with ruin for new players.

    When a new player play a dungeon for the first time (even their 1st dungeon) it is fun to explore and learn the mechanics of the dungeon if people are just going to zerg it this is impossible. Also one of the reasons for these dungeons used to be to learn the mechanics of the epic version. this does not happen and then mess up the new players first epic dungeon experience
    That's why I checked first the item level and gear of other players in the normal TOS I got as random. We melted everything till the end.

    As for the VT and Kessel, I must confess I ran a bit ahead but at least, the dungeons were cleared quickly ^^. It is the same as pug life before mod 12b.
    Hopefully more experienced >70 players will contribute to this new system instead of sulking in a corner.
    I don't even need shards for stronghold btw.

    And anyway, you can pre-make a group.




    Good for you, you had a good experience...
    I guess both your characters are above 11k IL and have unlocked MSP and FBI ?
    It's not the case for everyone... I have 5 toons that i play, and only 2 of them have FBI and MSP unlocked and are 11k IL (15k GWF and 12k CW). Which means, i can't run my daily dungeons on my 3 other toons to get my daily RAD... Too bad isn't it ? I'm going to have to run the low level dungeons if i want these AD, but ? Wait ? Is a mmo not suppose to make the content go forward instead of backwards ? What fun it is to me to run dungeons with 2 mates instead of 4 and not find any challenge doing so?
    Or do i have to sacrifice these other 3 characters and play only on my 2 best stuffed ones?
    I thought they said they would release a more "alt friendly" mod ? Well to me, it is completly the opposite...
    I used to run basic t1 and t2 dungeons with people from my guild with a scale of IL going from 8k to 15... Now, what are the 11k and below IL going to do, wait until they unlock tier3 dungeons? Get more stuff ? How are they going to do that ? By running low level dungeons only ? This make the game so much fun for them... No, honnestly, another proof you guys are completly neglecting vital aspects of the game...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,362 Arc User
    If L70 is willing to do level dungeon RQ, they should always form the 3 man L70 party before doing RQ. It will be faster for them anyway.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • revan06100revan06100 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    "That's why I checked first the item level and gear of other players in the normal TOS I got as random. We melted everything till the end."

    Good for you, but i guess both of your toons are 11k + and have FBI and MSP unlocked, it is not the case for everyone else you know, there are a lot of players whom used to run with their guilds and get their daily dungeon/skirmish AD rewards and well, now, they won't be able to anymore...


    "Hopefully more experienced >70 players will contribute to this new system instead of sulking in a corner.
    I don't even need shards for stronghold btw."

    It is not gonna be more, it is going to be "ONLY", after this patch, players below 11k will have to run low level dungeons to get their AD. It is a vicious cycle, if you want to pay for your stuff, earn AD, to earn AD --> Run low level dungeons ! So much fun you would agree...

    "And anyway, you can pre-make a group."

    Yes, yes, i guess you can, you can zerg it, make it even worse than before, but wait, it means you have to meet all these requirements : - Be 11k IL min, - have 30% everfrost resist, - have MSP and FBI unlocked, - Have 3 DPS, one TANK, one DC.
    Ohhh so much fun ! No more custom parties ! And the only ones whom going to be able to earn their daily AD are the ones whom need them the less ! Great idea, let's do it...


  • ecrana#2080 ecrana Member Posts: 1,654 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    The ban should be acount wide and initiated if dc'd for more than 1 minute

    Yes, because you obviously want even more people to quit the game. The dc's and leaver penalty wouldn't even be an issue if the devs had listened in the first place. Now they reap what they sow,
  • kyle1234512kyle1234512 Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    im 11.4k and i cant queue up for random epic because i dont have msp unlocked yet. which im only just starting the campaign as its difficult to solo as a dc.

    the major issue i have is i now get to run 3 separate queues in etos to make up the difference in salvage value. (lol 1 key, will probably end up being 4 runs) or i can run a skirmish too in addition to etos manual queue. now thats not terrible. but id rather just do etos twice.

    people who need the rad from etos/ master dungeons. are the lower geared and campaiging players. not the people who are done with it all. end game players have no reason to be random queueing other than to carry low levels like myself through the more difficult content. but it cant happen if the lower geared players cant even queue up for the content to begin with.

    now you're just separating low levels from high levels and only higher levels can benefit at all.

    random queues aren't bad, they just need to be locked via item level only per dungeon. im willing to do random validras or malabogs which im probably overgeared for, or even a normal dungeon to help noobs. but im not ok with being unable to queue at all.

    --------------

    tldr: let everyone random queue, just separate out what dungeons they can be placed into by their item level. dont put a 7k in cn for instance. and dont put a fresh 11k in msp. super simple stuff.
  • maxzius#3795 maxzius Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    > @werdandi#8366 said:
    > As Predictated it is a massive failure due to:
    > * People are zerging the 3man dungeon ruining experience for new players
    >
    > * People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    >
    > * I waited 1 Hour for reinforcements in a dungeon ... do not tell me noone tried Random Q in 1 hour
    >
    > * 4 players that don't have a clue what to do and are not equiped to handle a dungeon is q'd with you
    >
    >
    >
    > EDIT: : Oh and honorable mention you can't use your epic keys in the random Normal dungeons
    >
    > I am >70 player.
    > I had a good experience with RQ yesterday, both in 3-man dungeon (i checked the ilevel of other players first and they were all >70 so we just ran through it) and in 5-man dungeon (Kessel and VT).
    > I waited for less than 3 minutes for the 5-man-dungeon on both my dps and DC characters. All runs were flawless and quick even if I was main dpser on both my DPS and DC.
    > Sure it could have been way more difficult if a high-tier dungeon had been selected but I believe the "chance" of getting them is lowered.
    >
    > We also made premade groups for skirmishes random queues and it was all good.
    > We also made premade groups for selected epic dungeons as usual.
    > Nothing has really changed for me.
    >
    > I even think it can vivify the pug system that was dying because of the lack of trust among players.


    This is exactly the point. There's 40 plus pages on the preview shard telling the devs that this is a stupid system because it hurts the new and casual players while actually boosting players like us even more.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    When someone says, "yes... but you'll be able to earn more RAD in just ONE leveling dungeon... tug a forelock and be happy newbie..." ask them this: "And how much salvage will I get on top of that? You see 2 runs of EToS used to get the daily RAD cap and two chests worth of purple salvage minimum... plus whatever else dropped along the way. Will I get THAT much from one Random Leveling Dungeon?

    The answer is obviously "NO..."

    You would need to run your crappy leveling dungeon PLUS the same two HAMSTER EToS to get what you currently get from JUST the two epic dungeons...

    Well, not unless Cloak Tower is spitting purple alliance armour out of its chests all of a sudden...

    Oh... and Dungeoneers Shards? if you are under 10k forget that HAMSTER... cos you can only get them from epic random dungeon queue and epic random skirmish queue...

    They made a big deal in preview about how user friendly giving a skirmish based reward would be, but obviously forgot about the new gateway to THAT source of Dungeoneers Shards. The fact mot people collect them and run multiple at once isn't an issue to the NWO ("NeverWinter Order")

    If the person behind this mess of a project were the bloke played by Michael Caine in The Italian Job, you know that the moment he says' "Hold on... I've got a plan" the bus would tip into the ravine and they'd all fall to their doom, with the resulting explosion scattering gold bullion on the doorsteps of their enemies...
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,362 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    -
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    I have said that I consider the RQs a major design failure, however, it doesn't really affect me that much. Daily AD bonuses were not a significant part of the income from may main character, so I just totally ignore the RQs - nothing really changed.

    As for my secondary alts, well...I have even less motivation to play them now.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Member Posts: 1,598 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    As Predictated it is a massive failure due to:

    1. People are zerging the 3man dungeon ruining experience for new players
    2. People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    3. I waited 1 Hour for reinforcements in a dungeon ... do not tell me noone tried Random Q in 1 hour
    4. 4 players that don't have a clue what to do and are not equiped to handle a dungeon is q'd with you

    EDIT: : Oh and honorable mention you can't use your epic keys in the random Normal dungeons
    Yeah...

    BUT...

    On the up side...

    I bet those people waiting to queue for FBI and MSP are finding a group faster now..
    .
    Who cares if its a succesful run... or if half the party DC and switch to alt after 1 minute of checking the IL of their team mates...

    The important thing is this... that FBI fires just as quickly now as every other dungeon... and that PROVES it is just as popular and fun for the kids as every other dungeon ever ion the history of the world!!!!

    (I'm sticking the "End of sarcasm" flag in here... just in case...)

    They got the result they were after, and player satisfaction is not part of that metric.
  • smegman#1430 smegman Member Posts: 29 Arc User
    two easy things would fix the random Q issues...

    1) ALLOW PRIVATE QUEUING
    2) move FBI and MSP to the heroes challenge or whatever its called with TONG
  • intothegrooveintothegroove Member Posts: 39 Arc User
    The RQ has worked for me so far with Skirmishes and the 3-Man dungeons, a group was quickly found and on nearly all occasions i didnt have to wait more than a few seconds. However the RQ for Elite dungeons seems to not be so popular. Was waiting for 10 mins the first time and got Valindra's and the other times i just gave up waiting .All this while the other RQ's were starting almost instantly. Doesn't surprise me, nobody wants to run CN, MSP or FBI with an unknown group where you run a very high risk of failure and wasting a whole load of time.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 11,362 Arc User

    However the RQ for Elite dungeons seems to not be so popular. Was waiting for 10 mins the first time and got Valindra's and the other times i just gave up waiting .All this while the other RQ's were starting almost instantly. Doesn't surprise me, nobody wants to run CN, MSP or FBI with an unknown group where you run a very high risk of failure and wasting a whole load of time.

    I guess so far, it happens exactly what I predicted.
    *** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
  • bodini72bodini72 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 72 Arc User

    You still can get the AD you are getting now. What you will need to do will be running 3-man Level Random Queue (LRQ) once per day (vs twice per day now). You will get the same amount of AD as running a Epic RQ (ERQ). Are you willing to run the boring Level Dungeon is a different question. If what you want is about AD, what you lose is 10 minutes of time to run a LRQ per day.

    This is not true. While you get 50% more rad for regular dungeons the lack of salvagable gear and seals completely destroys the rad generation vs. time spent. Nevermind requiring ANY LEVEL 70 to run leveling content to survive in a game is a COMPLETE AND UTTER FAILURE by the dev's.
  • kittehnekokittehneko Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    What upsets me the most is how badly this has affected lower level guilds. The only way to get dungeon shards is to random queues. I am the only person in my guild that can do this at level 70.
  • mullymoomoo#7130 mullymoomoo Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    > @kittehneko said:
    > What upsets me the most is how badly this has affected lower level guilds. The only way to get dungeon shards is to random queues. I am the only person in my guild that can do this at level 70.

    My guild has also had its dungeon shards cut in half by this because most of us don't have 30% everfrost resist on all our alts, or we have not unlocked MSP or other dungeons that the SH npc didn't givery shards for before. So now we mostly just get shards for random skirmishes.

    Was the plan just to force players into buying SH shard packs in the zen market?
    Or buying campaign tokens for alts?
    Or both????
  • werdandi#8366 werdandi Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    The main failure: getting shards for guilds is way more difficult with this system, especially because you are cannot stack the random queue quests given by the Stronghold priest. It regards in particular casual players that are core population and that cannot play everyday.

    Also, for random FBI and MSP, they should raise the required item level because the failure rate is too high.

    Just a positive note reminder: random queue ARE made available in private.

  • mullymoomoo#7130 mullymoomoo Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    If I have the old SH dungeon shard quests in my quest list, like having to run ETOS and I also pick up the random dungeon quest and let's say I do a random epic queue and ETOS pops, do both quests complete and give me 10 shards each or will only 1 complete?
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    mynaam said:

    mynaam said:


    People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    This annoys me the most so far. They should time out the disconnects sooner. And give the leaver penalty for disconnects. Sure there are legit disconnects. But it seems there are way more abusers at the moment.

    If the devs want to push more people thru the queues, then clear the disconnects sooner so more people can have a chance to join.

    The ban should be account wide and initiated if dc'd for more than 1 minute
    There is one reason, that you might not agree with, ppl with more viable characters did level and gear them up. You would punish ppl playing with one account compared to multi account players.

    There is another, more valid reason. If ppl would fear a penalty, they would stay, go AFK and wait for a kick or an abandon instance vote. Running random que gives you one or two good players, if you are luck, but in 7 of 10 runs my DC or my GF are paingiver, sometimes with a contribution of others, that could be neglected. And to all those ppl who assume, that I 'missuse' my DC and my GF. The DC has a full buff debuff rotation and dailies and my GF has crushing pin specced and uses ITF. Neither of them has an ego noob build or rotation.

    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • mynaammynaam Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 935 Arc User
    edited October 2017
    asterotg said:

    mynaam said:

    mynaam said:


    People are changing to a new toon and showing as dc in list not getting a leaving penalty
    This annoys me the most so far. They should time out the disconnects sooner. And give the leaver penalty for disconnects. Sure there are legit disconnects. But it seems there are way more abusers at the moment.

    If the devs want to push more people thru the queues, then clear the disconnects sooner so more people can have a chance to join.

    The ban should be account wide and initiated if dc'd for more than 1 minute
    There is one reason, that you might not agree with, ppl with more viable characters did level and gear them up. You would punish ppl playing with one account compared to multi account players.

    There is another, more valid reason. If ppl would fear a penalty, they would stay, go AFK and wait for a kick or an abandon instance vote. Running random que gives you one or two good players, if you are luck, but in 7 of 10 runs my DC or my GF are paingiver, sometimes with a contribution of others, that could be neglected. And to all those ppl who assume, that I 'missuse' my DC and my GF. The DC has a full buff debuff rotation and dailies and my GF has crushing pin specced and uses ITF. Neither of them has an ego noob build or rotation.

    I have 7 toons currently that can do the epic dungeon and find i make way more ad now than before.

    As cor multiple accounts as far as i am aware that is illegal and thus should be perma banned as it is just another form of botting
    There are more than BIS players in this game
    RIP Real Tiamat, RIP Real Demogorgon RIP real Temple of the spider. Why remove non bis content to give to bis players ????
    FORCING the majority of your player base to play 4 mod old dungeons and trial will have a bad result on player base
    Changes are getting so bad i would rather prefer no new changes (RIP ICE FISHING in winter fest)



  • marv700#9957 marv700 Member Posts: 135 Arc User
    He's only happy because he didn't draw FBI or MSP on those 7 runs. I can assure you 99% of any random queue that ends up in one of those is a failure.

    Just for kicks, I tried Heroes Accord, ended up with a group of 14-16k folks so it looked promising but it was STILL a failure. There are way too many folks that just don't know how to build their characters or play their classes effectively for end game content. I don't want to be forced into instances with them.
  • sangrinesangrine Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 575 Arc User
    I play 3 main characters daily. All have FBI and mSP unlocked, but none unlocked SVA.
    I got my 30% everfrost resistance for free. I dont wear gear with everfrost resistance.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10517293-patch-notes:-version:-nw.80.20170515e.3
    "Players who complete the quest, Secrets of the Cocoon, now receive a key item that gives 30% Everfrost Resist. Players who already completed it will receive this item in in-game mail."

    If you dont wear gear with everfrost resistance in FBI, then you better have some self-healing (such as lifesteal) or you will go down fast.

    So far, random queues are very profitable for me. With 50% AD invoke bonus and VIP rank 12, I get 13-14k per random skirmish/dungeon and from leveling dungeons. In addition, I get salvage and seals (for more salvage). At this rate, my invoke bonus will be depleted in a week or so, and I will need to make a new alt, just for salvaging. I have 2 alts for salvaging, but it's not enough. Need at least, one more.

    I feel sorry for new players who struggle to earn AD, but I've been playing since 2013, and new players should be working hard on completing campaigns and improving their characters. A common problem I see is players dont know how to effectively build their characters. For example, I was recently told that CW have poor survivability, which is true in boss fights, but for soloing, CW can have good survivability, but not spellstorm thaum CW. MoF Renegade has much better survivability because of renegade healing and because DoT damage gives frequent healing from lifesteal.

    Same applies to HR. Some HR say HR has bad survivability, but trapper has good solo survivability, because of high control powers, and because of DoT damage. But player with big ego does not want DoT build because DoT build results in lower on paingiver. Try telling a CW to use his magic shield (or tell HR to use fox cunning), when your dungeon run has less than 5 players, or when tank/healer is weak. Many CW would rather die than use their magic shield. They think survivability is someone else's problem. At least, they could switch to a healer/tank companion, but no that's also beneath them.

    Random epic dungeons are profitable, if you can carry the party, or get lucky to end up in an easy dungeon.
    So far, it's very profitable for me.
  • odyeodye Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited October 2017



    Just a positive note reminder: random queue ARE made available in private.

    No, Nope, are re nope.

    I just tested 30 seconds ago, thinking that maybe they had added it after my post, but NO, there is no way to launch random queue in private. If you know a way of doing it, then please explain this to me.
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