You WILL get more "DAILY BONUS" RAD from "fewer queues" (not less time... but I'll come on to that)
BUT... if you used to run 2 ETOs and 2 Thrones, you would max your daily Bonus RAD from dungeons and skirmishes, and probably walk away with the salvage equivalent of at least 6 rings, at least two of which would be purple, for roughly another 14-16'000 RAD. This would bring you fairly close to your daily RAD transfer cap. (If you are VIP, and probably VERY close if you have any bonus RAD in your "pot")
If you are using ERQ you will simply NOT match the salvage lost from one fewer ETOS by doing one random dungeon. Maybe every so often you will get a decent bonus, but for the vast majority of cases you have to work on the standard drops. This is particularly true for sub 11K player who are forced to do one leveling dungeon for RAD where the potential to earn salvage does not exist.
So to get the same TOTAL RAD, not just the daily bonus, you will still have to do another dungeon making two in total, with the same scenario applying to epic skirmishes. In other words... there is no practical difference as to how many dungeons you need to run to walk away with the same RAD (not just daily bonus but including salvage as well). The only difference being you may end up dumped into dungeons that are doomed to failure, or take far longer than you have the time for.
This actually leaps to a total of requiring THREE dungeons (One random leveling dungeon and two public or private standard queue) for sub 11K players. Just to be where they USED to be with two chosen dungeons. So the notion of more for less... is fatuous, misleading and downright WRONG. It is actually "More dungeons for almost exactly the same". You see.. three dungeons is more than two dungeons... that's a fairly univeral understanding, and pretty much the exact opposite of the stated intention of the project...
The fact that the epic random dungeon queue is just as likely to send you to Castle Never, FBI, or MSP as EToS also flies in the face of the suggestion that it is more Bonus RAD for "less time". That is just nonsense. Considering you will still have to run another EToS to match your old RAD via salvage, it also works out as "Almost exactly the same total RAD after salvage, for possibly the same amount of time, but in all probability, considerably longer..."
BUT... FBI and MSP will fire faster now. So whoever dreamed this mess up will be able to report back that those dungeons are now very popular indeed.
Hooray!
Oh... and don't worry if you had any concern about whether you will be able to earn your daily cap of Seals of The Brave from Heroes' Accord in just one run. Because...YES!!! You will... because THAT is the given reason for FBI and MSP having been dumped into "Epic" dungeons list. Not because those 11K dungeons are suited to sit alongside the 8.4K likes of ETOS and CN... cos no one in their right mind thinks that. Those dungeons have been dropped on Epic Random Queue so those guys playing Heroes Accord only need to do one run to max their daily seals!
> @sangrine said: > > Random epic dungeons are profitable, if you can carry the party, or get lucky to end up in an easy dungeon. > So far, it's very profitable for me.
Yes, we all knew it would be a huge upgrade for those of us who have characters that are 13k+ and have everything unlocked and that's part of the problem. We get richer and the casual and new players can't even get into the Skirmish Q, let alone the epic dungeon Q or anything higher. They can't help their guild with shards.. they're stuck in between leveling and the real game. They all get screwed - that's most of the players and it isn't even the weekend yet.
I play 3 main characters daily. All have FBI and mSP unlocked, but none unlocked SVA. I got my 30% everfrost resistance for free. I dont wear gear with everfrost resistance. https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/10517293-patch-notes:-version:-nw.80.20170515e.3 "Players who complete the quest, Secrets of the Cocoon, now receive a key item that gives 30% Everfrost Resist. Players who already completed it will receive this item in in-game mail."
If you dont wear gear with everfrost resistance in FBI, then you better have some self-healing (such as lifesteal) or you will go down fast.
So far, random queues are very profitable for me. With 50% AD invoke bonus and VIP rank 12, I get 13-14k per random skirmish/dungeon and from leveling dungeons. In addition, I get salvage and seals (for more salvage). At this rate, my invoke bonus will be depleted in a week or so, and I will need to make a new alt, just for salvaging. I have 2 alts for salvaging, but it's not enough. Need at least, one more.
I feel sorry for new players who struggle to earn AD, but I've been playing since 2013, and new players should be working hard on completing campaigns and improving their characters. A common problem I see is players dont know how to effectively build their characters. For example, I was recently told that CW have poor survivability, which is true in boss fights, but for soloing, CW can have good survivability, but not spellstorm thaum CW. MoF Renegade has much better survivability because of renegade healing and because DoT damage gives frequent healing from lifesteal.
Same applies to HR. Some HR say HR has bad survivability, but trapper has good solo survivability, because of high control powers, and because of DoT damage. But player with big ego does not want DoT build because DoT build results in lower on paingiver. Try telling a CW to use his magic shield (or tell HR to use fox cunning), when your dungeon run has less than 5 players, or when tank/healer is weak. Many CW would rather die than use their magic shield. They think survivability is someone else's problem. At least, they could switch to a healer/tank companion, but no that's also beneath them.
Random epic dungeons are profitable, if you can carry the party, or get lucky to end up in an easy dungeon. So far, it's very profitable for me.
Could anyone tell me, when in the SOMI quests Secrets of the Cocoon comes. If it is early on, I could just do the quests and be done with it.
Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
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greywyndMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 7,090Arc User
After you get sent to Lonelywood to get the thistle for Makos to open the cocoon.
I'm not looking for forgiveness, and I'm way past asking permission. Earth just lost her best defender, so we're here to fight. And if you want to stand in our way, we'll fight you too.
I bet those people waiting to queue for FBI and MSP are finding a group faster now.. .
I am thinking that might not be the case. I queve for the epic random dungeons Tuesdays. I spent over 20 minutes in the queve. I stopped keeping track at 20 minutes, but I was waiting in the queve long enough to run 5 stronghold HEs, 2 stronghold builder dailies, turn in all those quests, tend 6 buildings, and change the guild MotD before the queve filled. I then got FBI an quit the instance.
Do you mind if I ask; were you queuing as a healer or tank? They are the ones who will end up in FBI and MSP quicker.
Imagine all those DPS guys desperate to run FBI (and to a lesser degree MSP). The ones who are always looking for groups in PE or anywhere in SKT zones.
Because Random Queue isn't random at all but in fact sends you to fill the longest open queue. All it takes is one DPS queueing for FBI and the chances are the next 11K healer that joins random epic queue will end up there.
This is because once people have done their enforced daily random queue for their RAD they will go back to normal public queues to do the dungeons they WANT... so EToS et al. will fire with pretty much the same regularity as they do now.
BUT... that means so will FBI... so the one DPS guy public queueing the old fashioned way for FBI will very quickly become the oldest queue.
> @smegman#1430 said: > two easy things would fix the random Q issues... > > 1) ALLOW PRIVATE QUEUING > 2) move FBI and MSP to the heroes challenge or whatever its called with TONG
Yes, you can premake a group. But it can't have a GF-OP-DC because it requires 3 DPS. The new ToNG random que has great rewards, but again, needs 3 "dps" or you can't que for it. I'd like to see how many have actually beaten it. The epic dungeon que is drawing a line in the sand, either have 11k item lvl or goto the kiddie pool(3 man dungeon) to earn AD. Im just under 15k, but for guildmates, and other groups, its causing friction, and causing a lot more " sorry, we can't go with you" situations. Or players seeing no AD reward and bailing. The AD cap of 36k is also a joke if you run a few of these and do the weeklies. If you CAN run the random's you want, you're immediately capped, not even counting any salvage gear. The intention shouldn't be to make the game harder on fresh lvl 70's to people under the 11k-12k marks.
The way random queues are designed in 12b update once again shows how much devs/managers know about the game/player base. Putting t1, t2 & t3 dungeons under one roof is ridiculous decision. Same with skirmishes, but those are at least all quite easy. Fbi/msp though are in different league entirely. Even if one has them unlocked chances to complete with random 1 tank 1 heal 3 dps party is next to zero. Sure you still can make your own 5 men party & queue but that kinda defeats the purpose. To help new players by forcing geared guys run all the content in public queue for ad? Not happening. Sure most of the time you get smth easy to do but get unlucky and boom either waste hours of your life in failed fbi/msp or quite & earn the penalty. Or exploits alts. Meh. Or make premades which isn't really any different than before. Random tong still can be done quite easy & fast btw if you think 20 extra seals worth it. Cw/sw full support builds are still very good & count as "dps". Rangers have awesome longstrider buff. So much for randomness
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Yes, you can premake a group. But it can't have a GF-OP-DC because it requires 3 DPS. The new ToNG random que has great rewards, but again, needs 3 "dps" or you can't que for it. I'd like to see how many have actually beaten it.
Can't help you there...I wouldn't dream of doing it. The risk of ending up in a group with "sub-optimal" classes, or several players that just barely meet the requirements is just too high. Chances are that such a group would either take way too long to finish or not be able to finish at all.
No, give me a good premade elitist 14K+ group any day..... The reward for a random queue is not sufficient to compensate for the potential frustration.
Hoping for improvements...
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adinosiiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,294Arc User
Yes, you can premake a group. But it can't have a GF-OP-DC because it requires 3 DPS. The new ToNG random que has great rewards, but again, needs 3 "dps" or you can't que for it. I'd like to see how many have actually beaten it.
Can't help you there...I wouldn't dream of doing a RQ ToNG. The risk of ending up in a group with "sub-optimal" classes, or several players that just barely meet the requirements is just too high. Chances are that such a group would either take way too long to finish or not be able to finish at all.
No, give me a good premade elitist 14K+ group any day..... The reward for a random queue is not sufficient to compensate for the potential frustration.
Besides all the negatives expressed here for the L70 and more, it's bad long term for >70. NOW it's sweet for them, they are getting fast gue pops etc. But being grouped with +70 they are getting a false sense of the dungeon.
The +70 are ripping through the dungeon with little effort, the >70 is getting their experience of the dungeon in that form, someone blasting through with little risk to themselves, when they actually come up against real content for their level with a group of their level, they are ill equiped for it (mentally/skill).
Those that are honest with themselves are getting depressed, I've already fielded dozens of "How do you do so much more dps than me? How can you do that so easy? Why didn't X mob do Y to you and owned me? This is depressing, I feel like I'm not even needed, you handled that all by yourself."
Is that healthy for long term game? Depressed, unneeded, inexperienced players?
*side note* Cryptic: With the RQ changes you have now joined to ranks of the TSA. Hated, Redundant and bloated. Specious results vs. expense.
You funnel travelers through 1 check point, annoying them and making them miss their flights, if they don't plan out way in advance to your ever changing rules and regulations. Your spur of the moment, ill concieved, brain farts, never seem to get the intended results. They only HAMSTER off travelers and you wind up walking it back. Take some bean-O and quit having these brain farts please.
my experience is good so far. my tr gets the queue faster then before. with my dc i fortunately did not land in FBI or ESP yet. i find it fun to not know what dungeon will come up, and thus have more variety. for instance i have not done shores of tuern in a long time, and it was the first one that popped. in t1 dungeons i found a mix of high IL and low IL which worked fine.
the thing that could be improved, is that fresh 70ies need to do random leveling dungeons instead of t1. that's less fun and there is no salvage.
my experience is good so far. my tr gets the queue faster then before. with my dc i fortunately did not land in FBI or ESP yet. i find it fun to not know what dungeon will come up, and thus have more variety. for instance i have not done shores of tuern in a long time, and it was the first one that popped. in t1 dungeons i found a mix of high IL and low IL which worked fine.
the thing that could be improved, is that fresh 70ies need to do random leveling dungeons instead of t1. that's less fun and there is no salvage.
After playing for a few days, my original assessment has only improved. . Qs seem to to be popping fairly regularly,, getting my daily AD,, and Dungeoneers shards are way easier to earn than before... some confusion seems to still abound as to which Epic dungeons are included in which q.. turns out Svarborg is not in the Epic list as thought, but grouped with Tia and Demo under Trials... and with the new refining system it's almost easy to hit the 11 gear score.. I managed to level a weapon set and gear set all to orange quality in a week.. something that would take forever with the old system
Comments
BUT... if you used to run 2 ETOs and 2 Thrones, you would max your daily Bonus RAD from dungeons and skirmishes, and probably walk away with the salvage equivalent of at least 6 rings, at least two of which would be purple, for roughly another 14-16'000 RAD. This would bring you fairly close to your daily RAD transfer cap. (If you are VIP, and probably VERY close if you have any bonus RAD in your "pot")
If you are using ERQ you will simply NOT match the salvage lost from one fewer ETOS by doing one random dungeon. Maybe every so often you will get a decent bonus, but for the vast majority of cases you have to work on the standard drops.
This is particularly true for sub 11K player who are forced to do one leveling dungeon for RAD where the potential to earn salvage does not exist.
So to get the same TOTAL RAD, not just the daily bonus, you will still have to do another dungeon making two in total, with the same scenario applying to epic skirmishes.
In other words... there is no practical difference as to how many dungeons you need to run to walk away with the same RAD (not just daily bonus but including salvage as well). The only difference being you may end up dumped into dungeons that are doomed to failure, or take far longer than you have the time for.
This actually leaps to a total of requiring THREE dungeons (One random leveling dungeon and two public or private standard queue) for sub 11K players. Just to be where they USED to be with two chosen dungeons.
So the notion of more for less... is fatuous, misleading and downright WRONG. It is actually "More dungeons for almost exactly the same".
You see.. three dungeons is more than two dungeons... that's a fairly univeral understanding, and pretty much the exact opposite of the stated intention of the project...
The fact that the epic random dungeon queue is just as likely to send you to Castle Never, FBI, or MSP as EToS also flies in the face of the suggestion that it is more Bonus RAD for "less time".
That is just nonsense. Considering you will still have to run another EToS to match your old RAD via salvage, it also works out as "Almost exactly the same total RAD after salvage, for possibly the same amount of time, but in all probability, considerably longer..."
BUT...
FBI and MSP will fire faster now. So whoever dreamed this mess up will be able to report back that those dungeons are now very popular indeed.
Hooray!
Oh... and don't worry if you had any concern about whether you will be able to earn your daily cap of Seals of The Brave from Heroes' Accord in just one run.
Because...YES!!!
You will... because THAT is the given reason for FBI and MSP having been dumped into "Epic" dungeons list.
Not because those 11K dungeons are suited to sit alongside the 8.4K likes of ETOS and CN... cos no one in their right mind thinks that. Those dungeons have been dropped on Epic Random Queue so those guys playing Heroes Accord only need to do one run to max their daily seals!
>
> Random epic dungeons are profitable, if you can carry the party, or get lucky to end up in an easy dungeon.
> So far, it's very profitable for me.
Yes, we all knew it would be a huge upgrade for those of us who have characters that are 13k+ and have everything unlocked and that's part of the problem. We get richer and the casual and new players can't even get into the Skirmish Q, let alone the epic dungeon Q or anything higher. They can't help their guild with shards.. they're stuck in between leveling and the real game. They all get screwed - that's most of the players and it isn't even the weekend yet.
Do you mind if I ask; were you queuing as a healer or tank?
They are the ones who will end up in FBI and MSP quicker.
Imagine all those DPS guys desperate to run FBI (and to a lesser degree MSP). The ones who are always looking for groups in PE or anywhere in SKT zones.
Because Random Queue isn't random at all but in fact sends you to fill the longest open queue. All it takes is one DPS queueing for FBI and the chances are the next 11K healer that joins random epic queue will end up there.
This is because once people have done their enforced daily random queue for their RAD they will go back to normal public queues to do the dungeons they WANT... so EToS et al. will fire with pretty much the same regularity as they do now.
BUT... that means so will FBI... so the one DPS guy public queueing the old fashioned way for FBI will very quickly become the oldest queue.
> two easy things would fix the random Q issues...
>
> 1) ALLOW PRIVATE QUEUING
> 2) move FBI and MSP to the heroes challenge or whatever its called with TONG
I agree.. especially on the second point
Random tong still can be done quite easy & fast btw if you think 20 extra seals worth it. Cw/sw full support builds are still very good & count as "dps". Rangers have awesome longstrider buff. So much for randomness
No, give me a good premade elitist 14K+ group any day..... The reward for a random queue is not sufficient to compensate for the potential frustration.
The +70 are ripping through the dungeon with little effort, the >70 is getting their experience of the dungeon in that form, someone blasting through with little risk to themselves, when they actually come up against real content for their level with a group of their level, they are ill equiped for it (mentally/skill).
Those that are honest with themselves are getting depressed, I've already fielded dozens of "How do you do so much more dps than me? How can you do that so easy? Why didn't X mob do Y to you and owned me? This is depressing, I feel like I'm not even needed, you handled that all by yourself."
Is that healthy for long term game? Depressed, unneeded, inexperienced players?
*side note*
Cryptic: With the RQ changes you have now joined to ranks of the TSA.
Hated, Redundant and bloated. Specious results vs. expense.
You funnel travelers through 1 check point, annoying them and making them miss their flights, if they don't plan out way in advance to your ever changing rules and regulations. Your spur of the moment, ill concieved, brain farts, never seem to get the intended results. They only HAMSTER off travelers and you wind up walking it back. Take some bean-O and quit having these brain farts please.
the thing that could be improved, is that fresh 70ies need to do random leveling dungeons instead of t1. that's less fun and there is no salvage.
let's see how it all develops!