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Official Feedback Thread: PVP Changes

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  • texy1texy1 Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    @sgrantdev#8718 What's happening to the Mastercrafted PvP Titansteel sets?
    They're not mentioned anywhere and have not been marked or adjusted on PTR.
    It would be terribly wasteful, millions of AD, to not have it adjusted to be at least equal in stats, but not identical, to the new Strategist, as they are outside of PvP.

    If they are not being adjusted, why?
  • andre#8369 andre Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    Dc> @texy1 said:
    > @sgrantdev#8718 What's happening to the Mastercrafted PvP Titansteel sets?
    > They're not mentioned anywhere and have not been marked or adjusted on PTR.
    > It would be terribly wasteful, millions of AD, to not have it adjusted to be at least equal in stats, but not identical, to the new Strategist, as they are outside of PvP.
    >
    > If they are not being adjusted, why?

    Sorry but I'll be shocked if you actually get a reply.
  • grampyrulz#4209 grampyrulz Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    > @tolkienbuff said:
    > There are always only a few PVP matches going on, if any. What needs to be done to bring it back, matchmaking, great rewards, new maps, and gear/stat balance through removing boons and mounts, are not on the table. I would love PVP to return to NW, and be fun for all players. But also, who wants to gear a toon for PVP when bad players can cry until your class gets nerfed, like what happened to DC and TR?
    >
    > I can't believe I'm saying this but I completely agree. I've been advocating for just these things. Equalization of stats, removal of boons, mounts, insignias... a more vanilla PVP experience.
    >
    > Everyone has been asking for new Maps and another NCL as well and these are both necessary. If you were to take this advice, you could literally fill guilds with the number of old PVPers who would come back, and since PVE gear will be viable next mod you would find yourself with many more consumers looking to buy their way back into some of the preexisting modules.
    >
    > I really wish this idea would catch on. Everyone wants fair fights that aren't predetermined by your gear, or by a boon proc that kills by deflect. It will be unpopular with some end gamers (those who like to keep an edge, rather than commit to a more healthy PVP environment that will foster new players and bring back the old).
    >
    > Now would be a perfect time to capitalize (read monetize) off the upcoming mod by bringing back PVP and your old core PVPers. Think how much easier it is to balance classes without all the interacting boons and proccs causing confounding variables. It's a win/win. Simplify and profit.

    From what I have heard from all the PC players on the forums PvP is like a ghost town there. Is it the same on X-box? I still find it fairly easy to get into matches on PS4, not that they are all well balanced by any means, but if you are persistent enough you can find a few good ones.

    I don't want a ghost town here, but it feels as that is the route it is headed. I get in and get out as quickly as possible usually, as the experience is as unpalatable as eating a good cut of meat with every spice from the pantry piled on to it. Can only handle it when I'm starving.

    If there is no plan to balance out the recipe, I would suggest encouraging 10 vs. 10 with better rewards before 20 vs. 20. I would also suggest larger maps, though I have no idea what the map difference is between dom and gaunt because I got tired of waiting hours for the queue to pop for gaunt. More ppl on the map could help newer players to find a niche and would also not have nearly as bad of an effect on the whole team.

    Everyone arguing and fighting over what to nerf or rework - how can you see that thru the static? We are going to have to give up all the things we have played for (not worked for, if you call this work you might want to find something else to do in your free time) to come to a better place with a larger population.
  • cilginordekcilginordek Member Posts: 459 Arc User
    texy1 said:

    @sgrantdev#8718 What's happening to the Mastercrafted PvP Titansteel sets?
    They're not mentioned anywhere and have not been marked or adjusted on PTR.
    It would be terribly wasteful, millions of AD, to not have it adjusted to be at least equal in stats, but not identical, to the new Strategist, as they are outside of PvP.

    If they are not being adjusted, why?

    I brought this up even before there was a pvp feedback thread.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1234156/pvp-items-feedback

    It probably got buried under all the pls nerf gf spam threads.
  • texy1texy1 Member Posts: 74 Arc User

    texy1 said:

    @sgrantdev#8718 What's happening to the Mastercrafted PvP Titansteel sets?
    They're not mentioned anywhere and have not been marked or adjusted on PTR.
    It would be terribly wasteful, millions of AD, to not have it adjusted to be at least equal in stats, but not identical, to the new Strategist, as they are outside of PvP.

    If they are not being adjusted, why?

    I brought this up even before there was a pvp feedback thread.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter#/discussion/1234156/pvp-items-feedback

    It probably got buried under all the pls nerf gf spam threads.
    Ah, thanks. Never saw that...yea buried..
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,403 Arc User
    Make 15 seconds 5 seconds immune and keep everyone viable thanks a lot.
  • preechr#2215 preechr Member Posts: 488 Arc User
    Very Well Said ++
  • mamalion1234mamalion1234 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,403 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    So, in thinking about several of the changes proposed and their potential effects, including how to best tweak the currently active CC immunity stacks. I kept coming back to "why are we in need of this?" The answer, which is fairly simple, and the cause of other suggested potential changes (such as the change to Astral shield, and decreasing the length of CB's action) will not be solved by the current changes. As is repeated in the history of this game we're attempting to treat a symptom while the underlying cause festers.


    The problem causing all the complaints related to CC can be reduced to this: Recovery, Cooldown reduction, and AP gain. The problem is completely contributable to the unavoidable power creep that occurs and the mostly linear stat return.

    In mod 1-12 there have been few changes to actual CC in PVP. The same CC encounters existed back then with relatively similar effects (except for the decision to make sure GWF never touched CC again thanks to mod 3, and HR's are no longer rubber band bandits). This means that CWs still had repel, entangle, and icy rays (as well as meatball in mod 2, please bring it baaack!). TRs had smokebomb, CB. GFs had bullcharge, griffons wrath and when GWF and GF mixed both had flurish, and FLS.

    So if we had all the same relative powers for 11 mods, why did massive complaints of CC begin to flood the forums the last 2-3 mods? We all know why, the power creep affords too much CD reduction and AP gain at the current stats available. Besides gear, which is increasingly giving away 2K+ of some stats at a time, you can stack 4 1K Artifacts of a stat, at least 7+ rank 12 enchants (14s next mod) then reinforcement slots, stats from insignias, stats from campaign boons. It's a HUUUUGE amount you can stack. This doesn't even include class feats, passives, or innate cooldowns.

    An example: My TR has 24K recovery in PVP unbuffed. I could easily find more (I've seen at least one with 30K+ I'm looking at you Kaio :P ), also I'm using the snail mount (ap gain) and the neckpiece (more AP gain). In order to get those stats you'd think I sacrifice other stats... but now with SH boons and such I easily get 30K power, maybe 2-3K arm pen (who needs it with TR, SoD does all your damage). This all while stacking 60% deflect is easymode without eating into recovery.

    The problem is not the skill which has essentially never changed, it's that I have 0 CD. Literally, by the time I finish my rotation I have a full rotation + daily available, and a DC sigil to pop for another daily.

    I was able to use full silveries when I build my Oppressor CW for PVP as well, insane recovery in combination with CD decreasing feats = perma CC.

    The one exception to this "rule" is trapper and it's own feated CD reduction, but for the sake of the class, the only way it CAN function is with a perfect rotation to keep your target at bay. If you find this one class, after the changes I suggest, is still causing too much CC in PVP, address the ability that is over performing.

    I feel we're looking at a symptom and examining treatment options for it. The underlying disease is a chronic one, it's necessitated by all MMOs. In PVE, it doesn't matter you have almost unlimited cooldowns at end game because of recovery and CD reduction available from multiple class feats/passives/insignias. A boss with godlike HP and one shot mechanics while maintaining CC immunity is not going to highlight the issues that can be caused by this, if anything bosses require insane CD reduction to be burned down. In PVP, however, this is game changing.

    A possible alternative to the massive changes you're looking at making:
    Hardcap a percentage of AP gain and CD reduction in PVP. Then spammables aren't. If this decreases outgoing damage so significantly that classes are having issues killing without insta rotations up, you can tamper with the tenacity damage resist to account for the missing DPS. Although min maxing would force players to seek other stats when CDs are hardcapped thus theoretically increasing damage to make up the difference. This way you don't have to chase down every CC bug related to interactions with CC immunity. This way you don't have to make adjustments unnecessarily to abilities being blamed when it's not the issue.

    I would add as a caution, that the decision may already have made that this CC immunity stacks is the way forward. I would say that you will have to deal with this linear stat curve and increasingly unlimited supply of recovery in the future if not now. I would respectfully suggest that dealing with it now, although a pain in the rear, you will save yourself (or future rotations who may fill your role staring at other people's code) a lot of trouble having to fix the real underlying issue and being left with CC that was made unnecessarily obsolete in PVP.

    I would add this is a factor in other significant changes you're looking at making, such as the nerf to Astral shield. The problem isn't the skill, it's that it's always up. A save from a boss mechanic with a cooldown was the intent, a permanent invincibility shield is what it becomes with 16-20K recovery. I feel like you guys are definitely looking at issues that are a problem in PVP, but too many voices crying CC! a forced perspective becomes difficult to avoid.

    As we accrue more and more stats through the course of the game, it would seem stat curves are more easily adjusted than implementing these large scale specialized mechanics like CC resist. To avoid affecting PVE with a change to recovery a "CD debuff" similar to the tenacity changes that occurs in PVP areas hardcapping CD reduction from all sources would correct the issue currently. I would even say that in doing this you will make people consider different stats so they can min max and perhaps make up the loss in damage from CD reduction by power/arm pen/crit they can stack instead of maxed CD and AP gain.

    I would argue that classes were originally created and balanced based on the powers they had and the gear they had available. Dailies and abilities could be influenced by ability score allocation and a few hundred points of stat allocation a decrease of a second in CD was significant but required investment. When you allow classes to power stack CD and AP gain, they were never balanced based on these developments, it changes their entire dynamic. Some classes and paragon trees benefit a lot more from these developments and you can see exactly which ones, by the complaints of CC spam and encounter based Immortality.

    Another possible option is adjusting the recovery curve to affect a less linear return for stat in light of the availability of the stat and other cool down reductions could be examined, but I'll leave that discussion to those most active in PVE. I'm the type of person who is a minimalist because if right but not right enough, it can be adjusted, if wrong but not majorly wrong, little harm done. A scalpel is a superior tool for sculpting balance imho.

    Overall a big personal concern of mine is this. There are limited paragon paths for all classes. Some classes have a few options some have literally only one meta. Changes like these, while well meaning, close off yet another paragon tree because the class won't function as it's intended when the abilities they used defensively become useless for what seems like an eternity in a fight. You're indirectly decreasing diversity in an already under diversified class system. I'd prefer we prevent any more of that if at all possible.

    Sure then reduce all stats without exclusions as well. Why someone to has 40k power and 15k penetration and i am not allowed to have a lot recovery ? Where is the diversity?

  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    kalina311 said:



    ya lets get some more players involved +1

    also tho certain weaker / lower items level players / classes can build more easily/effectively for cc then for dps tho ..
    certain powers have almost the same duration / effect regardless of player item level and tho are more favoured if you are weaker..

    This is very true. That is my story. Wanting to remain relevant in pvp where a broken matchmaking system pits me against players thouands of item levels above my own. Solution? Build a control-based defensive CW that can benefit his team since as a DPS he is going to be pretty useless. This option will not exist anymore for lower geared players!

    So the obliteration of cc may level the playing field for players of similar item levels (it was probably needed), but the lack of brackets means that lower item level players playing classes where cc was core, will suffer even more than before. Let's see if newer players do get involved or if only certain classes will get more involved (those relying less on cc).
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • nezdin#5514 nezdin Member Posts: 259 Arc User
    Also I am in agreement with @tolkienbuff on the changes to cc and cooldowns/recovery - this I questioned a few pages ago too. You should really re-consider the changes and try to tackle the underlying problem which are cooldowns.
    Nezdin (DC)
    Aelan Icebleed (CW)
  • ltgamesttv#0999 ltgamesttv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User

    So, in thinking about several of the changes proposed and their potential effects, including how to best tweak the currently active CC immunity stacks. I kept coming back to "why are we in need of this?" The answer, which is fairly simple, and the cause of other suggested potential changes (such as the change to Astral shield, and decreasing the length of CB's action) will not be solved by the current changes. As is repeated in the history of this game we're attempting to treat a symptom while the underlying cause festers.


    The problem causing all the complaints related to CC can be reduced to this: Recovery, Cooldown reduction, and AP gain. The problem is completely contributable to the unavoidable power creep that occurs and the mostly linear stat return.

    In mod 1-12 there have been few changes to actual CC in PVP. The same CC encounters existed back then with relatively similar effects (except for the decision to make sure GWF never touched CC again thanks to mod 3, and HR's are no longer rubber band bandits). This means that CWs still had repel, entangle, and icy rays (as well as meatball in mod 2, please bring it baaack!). TRs had smokebomb, CB. GFs had bullcharge, griffons wrath and when GWF and GF mixed both had flurish, and FLS.

    So if we had all the same relative powers for 11 mods, why did massive complaints of CC begin to flood the forums the last 2-3 mods? We all know why, the power creep affords too much CD reduction and AP gain at the current stats available. Besides gear, which is increasingly giving away 2K+ of some stats at a time, you can stack 4 1K Artifacts of a stat, at least 7+ rank 12 enchants (14s next mod) then reinforcement slots, stats from insignias, stats from campaign boons. It's a HUUUUGE amount you can stack. This doesn't even include class feats, passives, or innate cooldowns.

    An example: My TR has 24K recovery in PVP unbuffed. I could easily find more (I've seen at least one with 30K+ I'm looking at you Kaio :P ), also I'm using the snail mount (ap gain) and the neckpiece (more AP gain). In order to get those stats you'd think I sacrifice other stats... but now with SH boons and such I easily get 30K power, maybe 2-3K arm pen (who needs it with TR, SoD does all your damage). This all while stacking 60% deflect is easymode without eating into recovery.

    The problem is not the skill which has essentially never changed, it's that I have 0 CD. Literally, by the time I finish my rotation I have a full rotation + daily available, and a DC sigil to pop for another daily.

    I was able to use full silveries when I build my Oppressor CW for PVP as well, insane recovery in combination with CD decreasing feats = perma CC.

    The one exception to this "rule" is trapper and it's own feated CD reduction, but for the sake of the class, the only way it CAN function is with a perfect rotation to keep your target at bay. If you find this one class, after the changes I suggest, is still causing too much CC in PVP, address the ability that is over performing.

    I feel we're looking at a symptom and examining treatment options for it. The underlying disease is a chronic one, it's necessitated by all MMOs. In PVE, it doesn't matter you have almost unlimited cooldowns at end game because of recovery and CD reduction available from multiple class feats/passives/insignias. A boss with godlike HP and one shot mechanics while maintaining CC immunity is not going to highlight the issues that can be caused by this, if anything bosses require insane CD reduction to be burned down. In PVP, however, this is game changing.

    A possible alternative to the massive changes you're looking at making:
    Hardcap a percentage of AP gain and CD reduction in PVP. Then spammables aren't. If this decreases outgoing damage so significantly that classes are having issues killing without insta rotations up, you can tamper with the tenacity damage resist to account for the missing DPS. Although min maxing would force players to seek other stats when CDs are hardcapped thus theoretically increasing damage to make up the difference. This way you don't have to chase down every CC bug related to interactions with CC immunity. This way you don't have to make adjustments unnecessarily to abilities being blamed when it's not the issue.

    I would add as a caution, that the decision may already have made that this CC immunity stacks is the way forward. I would say that you will have to deal with this linear stat curve and increasingly unlimited supply of recovery in the future if not now. I would respectfully suggest that dealing with it now, although a pain in the rear, you will save yourself (or future rotations who may fill your role staring at other people's code) a lot of trouble having to fix the real underlying issue and being left with CC that was made unnecessarily obsolete in PVP.

    I would add this is a factor in other significant changes you're looking at making, such as the nerf to Astral shield. The problem isn't the skill, it's that it's always up. A save from a boss mechanic with a cooldown was the intent, a permanent invincibility shield is what it becomes with 16-20K recovery. I feel like you guys are definitely looking at issues that are a problem in PVP, but too many voices crying CC! a forced perspective becomes difficult to avoid.

    As we accrue more and more stats through the course of the game, it would seem stat curves are more easily adjusted than implementing these large scale specialized mechanics like CC resist. To avoid affecting PVE with a change to recovery a "CD debuff" similar to the tenacity changes that occurs in PVP areas hardcapping CD reduction from all sources would correct the issue currently. I would even say that in doing this you will make people consider different stats so they can min max and perhaps make up the loss in damage from CD reduction by power/arm pen/crit they can stack instead of maxed CD and AP gain.

    I would argue that classes were originally created and balanced based on the powers they had and the gear they had available. Dailies and abilities could be influenced by ability score allocation and a few hundred points of stat allocation a decrease of a second in CD was significant but required investment. When you allow classes to power stack CD and AP gain, they were never balanced based on these developments, it changes their entire dynamic. Some classes and paragon trees benefit a lot more from these developments and you can see exactly which ones, by the complaints of CC spam and encounter based Immortality.

    Another possible option is adjusting the recovery curve to affect a less linear return for stat in light of the availability of the stat and other cool down reductions could be examined, but I'll leave that discussion to those most active in PVE. I'm the type of person who is a minimalist because if right but not right enough, it can be adjusted, if wrong but not majorly wrong, little harm done. A scalpel is a superior tool for sculpting balance imho.

    Overall a big personal concern of mine is this. There are limited paragon paths for all classes. Some classes have a few options some have literally only one meta. Changes like these, while well meaning, close off yet another paragon tree because the class won't function as it's intended when the abilities they used defensively become useless for what seems like an eternity in a fight. You're indirectly decreasing diversity in an already under diversified class system. I'd prefer we prevent any more of that if at all possible.

    Sure then reduce all stats without exclusions as well. Why someone to has 40k power and 15k penetration and i am not allowed to have a lot recovery ? Where is the diversity?

    Well, it's another discussion but I've advocated multiple times that Boons, SH Boons, Insignias, and Mount powers should not function in PVP. So, I would actually agree with you.

    As I said in the OP, classes were never specifically balanced with the type of cool downs we can get in PVP now. The issue is that most of PVP, the little skill left (rather than random procs of weird and sometimes broken interactions) has to do with timing. That moment when your opponent is out of dodges, has used their CC in their rotation, and is now vulnerable. Counting dodges, following TRs dodges and waiting till immunity frames were, waiting till the DC was out of encounters, etc. These were what separated good players.

    If you have this much CD available (not to mention affects on stamina, Do you ever not have a dodge?) You never don't have repel, Astral shield, or ITC up. This was never intended in PVP, or at least PVP was never balanced to account for it. All I'm trying to do is bring to light the cause of the issue, and to caution that this current "fix" is a band aid. It will have to be addressed at some point.

    I also didn't say recovery should be useless, just balanced in a way that allows all classes to find each other's moment of vulnerability. When you say "so then decrease all stats without exclusion" it makes me think of early mods, with nostalgia... I would gladly go back. When deflect didn't kill undergeared players from boon procs, before I ever died to boons proccing off marks in endless loops one shotting entire nodes. When you carefully allocated every point of your stats because, that was all you had.

    As for "where is the diversity?" I find the question a little bit hypocritical. This next mod will make Oppressor useless, Trapper HR useless, and nerf some abilities that heal DCs use as a go to which typically increases the odds they will move to a different meta. So I feel I'm actually advocating diversity. It's the last thing I mention in the post.

    Thanks for your reply
    On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"

    imgur pics don't work


  • asterdahlasterdahl Member, Cryptic Developer Posts: 1,258 Cryptic Developer

    Dc> @texy1 said:

    > @sgrantdev#8718 What's happening to the Mastercrafted PvP Titansteel sets?

    > They're not mentioned anywhere and have not been marked or adjusted on PTR.

    > It would be terribly wasteful, millions of AD, to not have it adjusted to be at least equal in stats, but not identical, to the new Strategist, as they are outside of PvP.

    >

    > If they are not being adjusted, why?



    Sorry but I'll be shocked if you actually get a reply.

    I can weigh in here. Equipment is not adjusted to keep pace with the release of new equipment, I won't go so far as saying "never has, never will," because there may be exceptions under extreme circumstances, but as a rule of thumb, you can essentially assume that equipment will never be adjusted to keep pace with new equipment that is released.

    When you invest in any equipment, whether it's astral diamonds in a piece of equipment that is crafted, or time in a piece of armor that drops, know that it will only remain best in slot for a limited time. Specifically in regards to masterwork, we do have new recipes planned, and as always, you'll be in a better position to start building those new recipes if you're up to date on the current masterwork recipes.

    So short answer: the new prestige armor set will beat out the current masterwork PvP set. However, now that tenacity is gone, there is no reason for masterwork PvP set to be item level 450 and not 480 to match the equivalent masterwork PvE set, so we will be adjusting the item level up to 480.
  • texy1texy1 Member Posts: 74 Arc User
    asterdahl said:

    Dc> @texy1 said:

    > @sgrantdev#8718 What's happening to the Mastercrafted PvP Titansteel sets?

    > They're not mentioned anywhere and have not been marked or adjusted on PTR.

    > It would be terribly wasteful, millions of AD, to not have it adjusted to be at least equal in stats, but not identical, to the new Strategist, as they are outside of PvP.

    >

    > If they are not being adjusted, why?



    Sorry but I'll be shocked if you actually get a reply.

    I can weigh in here. Equipment is not adjusted to keep pace with the release of new equipment, I won't go so far as saying "never has, never will," because there may be exceptions under extreme circumstances, but as a rule of thumb, you can essentially assume that equipment will never be adjusted to keep pace with new equipment that is released.

    When you invest in any equipment, whether it's astral diamonds in a piece of equipment that is crafted, or time in a piece of armor that drops, know that it will only remain best in slot for a limited time. Specifically in regards to masterwork, we do have new recipes planned, and as always, you'll be in a better position to start building those new recipes if you're up to date on the current masterwork recipes.

    So short answer: the new prestige armor set will beat out the current masterwork PvP set. However, now that tenacity is gone, there is no reason for masterwork PvP set to be item level 450 and not 480 to match the equivalent masterwork PvE set, so we will be adjusting the item level up to 480.
    This is good news, and the best we can hope for. Thanks :)
  • draconislupusdraconislupus Member Posts: 205 Arc User
    edited September 2017

    Greetings Fellow Explorers,
    In preparation for module 12B’s debut we thought we would break down all of the great PvP changes coming your way. Please keep in mind that we plan to continue making additional adjustments in the future, and these are merely the adjustments we have planned for the upcoming module.
    Please take some time to digest these changes and give us feedback. That feedback may help shape our plans for future changes. Now lets get to the meat of this post.

    ......

    Potion Changes
    We have also addressed a longstanding issue with players being able to obtain an excessive amount of buffs from consumables. This change was not made specifically with PvP in mind, however, as it affects PvP, I will be outlining the changes here. Full details will be available in the preview patch notes.


    Almost all items that give 5+ minute buffs are grouped into one of 7 categories.
    Potion: Includes alchemy potions, and most misc. game potions. (Those that had "elixir" in their names have had it replaced with "potion".)
    Elixir: Includes the invocation potions, and a few other "super" potions that are hard/expensive to get but have big effects (e.g., Potion of Heroism, now renamed to Elixir of Heroism).
    Stronghold Food
    Event Food
    Invocation
    Reusable Item: Includes items like Tymora's Lucky Coin or Adorable Pocket Pet
    Non-food Event
    A player can have at most 1 active buff from each category.
    If a player has a buff from a category, and then uses something else in that category, the old buff goes away and is replaced by the new buff regardless of the buff’s strength.
    There are a few buffs that live outside of these rules due to their narrow focus:
    Potion of Dragon Slaying
    Scroll of Protection from Dragon Slaying
    Shard of Permafrost
    Everfrost Resist Potions
    ......

    As always your feedback is instrumental, so please give them a try, take some time to digest the changes and then send us your feedback!

    A. This really should be in its own thread because this effects all aspects of the game, and no it is not even mentioned in the patch notes. If I hadn't heard about it I would not have seen it to comment on because I don't do PvP. I'm not sure if this was an oversight or not but it needs fixed. I hate to think that it was an attempt to slip it in inner the radar. I think that I will try finding a place to post it too.

    B. I really do think that stacking is causing an over buff issue, but it could be handled better.

    1. Your categories are right and they are wrong.

    Your categories should be the following with subcategories (I've added 1 category and not all categories may be currently in use):

    Elixirs: Normal, Guild, Event, and Unique.
    Foods: Normal, Guild, Event, and Unique.
    Potions: Normal, Guild, Event, and Unique.
    Salves: Normal, Guild, Event, and Unique.
    Scrolls: Normal, Guild, Event, and Unique.

    And then (added because they give temp buffs):
    Coins
    Pocket Pets

    Now, I think only 1 item in each subcategory should be allowed at a time. I know your thinking 20 total will be to much , but apply the law of diminishing returns to any items the boost the same thing. Starting with what has the highest buff and then go in descending order. If someone could actually have 20 items that could buff the same thing and had items that were all worth 1k each after diminishing returns they would only just barely break 2k buff, by less than 0.1 point. So 20 1k buffs to get 2k bonus. Even though this couldn't happen no one would do it.

    2. The Tymora's Lucky Coin and Pocket Pet. These should remain separate categories and be allowed to have at the same time for a couple reasons.

    a. These are unique, so far, items that come from events that you want players to participate in. For example, I have the Pocket Pet from the Day of the Dungeon Master and was planning on farming the up coming Tymora event for the Lucky Coin on my main, and alts, but I don't know if I will now if I can't used them both there is no point once I have one of them.

    b. Their buffs really only help low level players and that is fine because a lot of the time they need those buffs.

    c. High level players have and really only use them as a novelty because the randomness and the actual buff make it unreliable and weak. Let's face it the other categories far exceed them. Especially right now.

    d. And with this system they would become an even better option for higher level players due to the diminishing returns on the others, but still not be a game breaker. Which means more players participating in events, not less.

    e. It opens the door to others of these same types. Think about it the current Pocket Pet randomly buffs Crit, Power, and Regen and debuffs Threat. What's to say another one, say a ferret, wouldn't buff Deflect, Stamina Gain, and Regen and debuff Threat. These new items could be reasons for players to participate in, and more in, older events.

    f. But at no point should more than 1 Pocket Pet or more than 1 Coin be able to be used at a time.

    3. Diminishing returns gives you better flexibility in the future. So let's say that you start with a 50% diminishing return, which is what I used above, and find out that it still is to much they can be fixed by adjusting quality variable per stat easier than a huge overhaul. Same goes the other way. Or for individual stats.

    All in all I think that not only is this a better system now it provides way more future expansion and flexibility.


    Edited for clarity and spelling.
    Post edited by draconislupus on
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    @grrouper
    which are without value then ?? the minority ...your solution is back to the problem which the dev were trying tho fix guzzzling every potion known to man even if they benefited your class a little

    all other you can still l chose a type from each category to consolidate good stats crit power hit points there are plenty more useful ones then useless to go around.. .if elixirs are with out value (what ever that means) then dont craft or make them ... make and craft and buy the ones which is still the majority and selling .. so what

    the forces good build choices as well .. no you can have every candy at the candy store

    some pve player will say they were not taking most of them anyways too

    i can see a build and a use for almost every elixir and stat consolidation type ..

    blood ... a power build
    storm a crit build
    for deflect build
    sun recovery build
    stead .. defence build
    the regen one no build...
    elixir of fate general buff to all stats

    then you combine this with the food type that consoldates this potions type etc
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    The only thing about the potion change that bums me out as a primarily PvE player is that the effort to acquire both Tymora Coin and Pocket Pet across multiple characters is now a waste. For the modest amount of stats/buff that each gives (which is random and you might roll a useless one each use), not having them work in tandem is preeeeeetty lame.

    I play alts. I don't have uber gear because I spread my resources out and never stay bleeding edge of anything. I do use the most accessible, least costly consumables for a small boost even running routine stuff, as they make a noticeable difference in clear speeds. As most of the low-cost or no-cost options will still work together, the changes make little difference on the low end and are mostly going to impact people who were stacking absolutely everything.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • kalina311kalina311 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,082 Arc User
    ya those chult foods were probably for new people without guilds school of thought : D / other sink to spend currency on ...the winter event scrolls of fate however were a worse offender of stacking tho 490 stats each there are one for every stat pretty much except crit
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    Bug: tooltip typo
    Elixirs say "one one" instead of "only one" may be in effect at a time.
    kalina311 said:

    ya those chult foods were probably for new people without guilds school of thought : D / other sink to spend currency on ...

    I had a closer look at the Chult foods and there are two reasons for them to exist. They appear to be in the same category as guild foods (now more generally "food" not from an event) and are in fact copies of tier 2 guild foods, meaning the only reason to use them is lack of access to guild food. That makes them fairly niche, particularly considering the cost. But, they also add cultural flavor. The ones I recognize are inspired by Ethiopian cuisine, which is pretty cool, imo.

    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • sh00termcl0vinsh00termcl0vin Member Posts: 287 Arc User
    edited September 2017
    @slicey970x

    Any changes to the TR stealth crit mechanic needs to be accompanied by a damage adjustment to at-wills and encounter powers. Try killing another class in PvP with TR base damage with a moderate amount of armor penetration and no shadow of demise. It's pretty much impossible because you end up just tickling them (even with 100% crit chance). As it stands already crit is far inferior to power due to the severity reduction in pvp. A change like what you are advocating without a class balance pass would be foolish as it would reduce TR damage down to almost nothing. Every TR is currently executioner at the moment because saboteur was severely impacted by the piercing changes. Therefore if you want a chance at actually killing anyone you need to be executioner.

    Finally you didn't mention the two most broken things as prominently as you should have, smoke bomb and courage breaker (even with the current changes) . A TR with 30k recovery can still perma courage/smoke a player even with a 5 second duration courage break. The problem lies mainly with theses two powers and these two powers alone. This leaves them free to lay into a player with no chance of them fighting back if they don't avoid the initial smoke bomb tick. Under the new system a smoke bomb only applies 1 stack of cc resist. 1 stack for a stun that if applied lasts over 6 seconds and is AOE! A reduction to smoke bomb duration would be more appropriate towards balancing it. Also courage breaker needs a cool down like hallowed ground to make it far less attractive for use. These changes would go a lot father in helping to balance then reducing damage, while also keeping the class viable.
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