Diminishing returns on stats is a solution to power creep. Nerfing stuff is a solution to power creep. But you don't get to say solution to power creep and at the same time add r14 enchants that will give something like 8k stats (with a total cost of something like 50mil AD). Especially that the bonding power creep doesn't come from their basic pet->owner transfer. But buffed pet.
I've not seen anything that specifically addresses this concern either.
Personally I think everything should be capped at 80%
I am not understanding your wording. Are you asking why Bonding Runestones are an issue but other bonuses that give more are not? If that's the case this would be the same answer that Robert gave in the video. Bonding runestones had a spike that needed to be toned down to bring it in line with the other runestones. Power Creep is the answer why not to buff everything else, not the reason why the nerf is taking place.
Maybe I need to make it more clear. One one hand we have an item that gives at best 285% of 10k stats = 30k stats. On the other hand we have class buff THROUGH the bonding that give +from as low as 60k and if used by both classes in a party up to +200k stats. So we have 30k Vs 200k . Which one does it look like it needs a tone down stat wise? If there is a doubt about this, again I can provide screens.
This is tied very much with the second question. The nerf is meant to bring them more in line with the other options but it was specifically stated that they expect them to be slightly better than the other options even after the change.
But there will never be even close let alone in line. Be honest here, Lets assume that the devs even over buff the augments and with an augment companion you will get 40k stats and with bondings you will get 25k stats BUT the powershare will still give you through the bonding 70k power extra (I can easy take it to 150k but I'm keeping the average), so 25k +70k = 95k. Which one would be the smart and wise choice to take? Which one do you think they player base will choose? On top a BIG portion of the mount bonuses wont work with augments. BIG minus for augment
And I will insist and I hope you don't mind, but why when we are talking about power creep (and rightfully so), the devs introduce items such as this that INCREASE the power (not the stat) and make things even more ... easy and trivial?
Doesn't it defy the point and contradict the Power creep argument? When you increase the stats on enchants while you (plural) call that we have to much stats?
My argument is this, YES we have a power creep but the solution that is provided doesn't really solve much of the problems either with power creep or bringing the other enchants in line (not even close)
Its like me coming to tell you that I will lower your paycheck because we need to cut down on expenses and then go buy a Ferrari.
You know, it took them about a year before they apologised for mod 6. A few months later they go and create something that will decimate the community in a way that will make the mod 6 fiasco look like a minor hiccup.
You can try to explain it any way you like and some of the points may be fair, but the net result will be the same: A player exodus.
If the devs think the changes are worth losing a large chunk of the player base then good luck to them.
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
So you tossed this hilariously nonsensical idea with the 50% uptime on bondings out of the window. Phew...thank gawd for that... I hope you buried it deep so it will never see the light of day again It still leaves a bad taste in my mouth because the idea is so comically bad and so clearly not beneficial to players that one has to wonder how the team could possibly have come up with it in the first place. Still it is very good to see you responded to the critique. The streamlining of the refinement process sounds nice in and of itself but even that is soured by the heavy nerf to bondings (even without the 50% uptime nonsense...I hope it will work like before...apart from the heavy % nerf?) and the lengthening of an already very lengthy refinement process. One doesn' t need to be a genius to see why players might not be giddy about you taking away a ton of stats they already had while offering them different and very costly ways to try and get them back again...You also failed epically in explaining why, how this could possibly be beneficial to you, the players, game design, anything...it' s just baffling. Just like the new idea for random queues...I cannot imagine how anyone could have come up with that with a straight face. Seriously.. I just don' t know. But: no shame whatsoever in having outrageously bad ideas every now and then if you don' t stick to the them!
4
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
Ok, I'll put it in it's own post so I can stop repeating this.
There are two different questions:
Why not buff the other runestones?
The reason why you don't buff every other RUNESTONE to be viable is because that is power creep. You don't buff every comparable item to avoid nerfing one item.
The goal as they have explained it is to remove the "absolutely must use" label on Bonding Runestones. They will still be the better but they will be less of a absolutely must use.
If you want to avoid power creep then why buff everything else?
The argument that they are implementing Power Creep by upping all the other enchantments is a separate issue with separate reasoning:
1. Power will be upped periodically. 2. The Power is not being signnificantly upped (and thus the game will remain relatively the same) because the power is being redistributed to other items.
This isn't an issue that Bonding Runestones are too powerful making content too easy. This is the problem that bonding runestones are too powerful COMPARED to the items they are able to be compared with. Until this is addressed it hinders the options for players AND hinders options for the developers when designing content.
Two answers to two different questions.
For you to understand the difference between bonding and other runestones. Even if bonding has 0 stat rating will still be the number one choice because power share will still buff the base power of the companion and then bonding will transfer it to the player. Power share and augment do not go together.
You know, it took them about a year before they apologised for mod 6. A few months later they go and create something that will decimate the community in a way that will make the mod 6 fiasco look like a minor hiccup.
You can try to explain it any way you like and some of the points may be fair, but the net result will be the same: A player exodus.
If the devs think the changes are worth losing a large chunk of the player base then good luck to them.
I think we've forgotten just how bad mod 6 really was, it was far far worse than we remember it now and worse than this.
Ok, I'll put it in it's own post so I can stop repeating this.
There are two different questions:
Why not buff the other runestones?
The reason why you don't buff every other RUNESTONE to be viable is because that is power creep. You don't buff every comparable item to avoid nerfing one item.
The goal as they have explained it is to remove the "absolutely must use" label on Bonding Runestones. They will still be the better but they will be less of a absolutely must use.
If you want to avoid power creep then why buff everything else?
The argument that they are implementing Power Creep by upping all the other enchantments is a separate issue with separate reasoning:
1. Power will be upped periodically. 2. The Power is not being signnificantly upped (and thus the game will remain relatively the same) because the power is being redistributed to other items.
This isn't an issue that Bonding Runestones are too powerful making content too easy. This is the problem that bonding runestones are too powerful COMPARED to the items they are able to be compared with. Until this is addressed it hinders the options for players AND hinders options for the developers when designing content.
Two answers to two different questions.
Technically, these points may be correct. It doesn't remove the main objections:
1. players will lose a huge chunk of their ability until they finally level their gear back up 2. levelling the gear back up will cost an absolute fortune 3. players will feel like their characters have just been reduced by about 3k IL and will be angry 4. having an extra 2 tiers on enchantments will increase the gap between new & old and will take new players even longer to get to BiS. 5. less people will run alts due to the expense of levelling one character - as such we will have even less DCs and Tanks - leading to worse grouping experiences
Please Do Not Feed The Trolls
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
You should really think how this looks for us players. Whatever you intentions are, and I give you a benefit of a doubt that's it's not sinister evil cash grab, it looks like the dev team doesn't know what to do with the game and with stats, so they force us to grind content to get exactly where we were before.
1) On the one hand you state you don't want power creep, on the other you introduce power creep artifact. 2) you refuse to acknowledge that bondings have broken interactions with some classes 3) you announce a nerf of an item, which will still be BiS, at the same time you announce that the stats we loose we can get by refining more and more enchants. 4) You say that buffing other, existing runestones is a power, despite it beeing the exact opposite of a power creep (i.e. introducing new items performing the same task better, you know like your new artifact)
Aris Meyde CW MoF Renegade
[PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
0
jumpingmorksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 876Arc User
Lol so basically all the time I invested into the game was for nothing since this change will diminish my ability to tank at all, since I reach the cap when they activate.
Why not actually use your brains, leave the bondings how they are, buff ALL the runestones, figure out a way to balance them out without affecting the bondings, then increase the cap on a lot of major stats for the new content, just because a stat is at 100% doesnt mean that is the max cap, you can easily change the max cap of something to make it higher, this will make the new content harder significantly without us sacrificing our own time invested/effort/patience with the game so far.
I havent even got any legendary companions yet, and i still lack one epic companion to upgrade atm, (the other 4 are epic), I don't even have all r12 bondings too, OR ANY enchantments above R10, so how the hell am I supposed to be able to afford all of this when the end game content will practically be cut off from me because I will be too weak to run it? (I'm a tank by the way, A CRUCIAL CLASS)
Time to sell all bondings and quit NW when the mod drops I guess. Been a fun game, especially the part where I've had the same type of loot (all common (ONLY about 4), except my first ever epic companion of 2017, (which was bound AND not for my class), OR how the lockbox from the glorious resurgence has only dropped the cavalry pack, and if it isn't that which drops its the 8k enchantment pack, which ALWAYS gives me saphires, both of these issues for this entire year, thanks cryptic. You guys really know how to take care of your loyal players.
Tanks, GF's at least, can tank everything up to the current CN with R8's and no companion or augment summoned. So am guessing you are referring to FBI, MSP and now TONG?
I don't go into LFG in PE for any of those 3 dungeons on my main, on the basis that just because they can parrot 2xDC/OP/GF/HDPS all with R12 Bondings doesn't mean I trust them to know what they are doing. I can't speak for TONG but if you can do FBI and MSP with R12's now (which you clearly stated you did not have 3xR12) you won't have any issues running them still.
Most of the time I end up having no companion on Turtle and don't notice till the end, but like I said, I don't pug those dungeons.
oria1 - Just so you know we all understand and agree with your remarks - why reduced bonding stones rather than the buffs that are crafting the real DPS additions to reduce power creep. We all also know the answer - because it is not about power creep. It is also not about giving players viable different paths either. Another option that almost equals the potential of bonding's is not another equal path giving players choice. They will all opt for bonding stones still. Ask any player who plays "do they object to other stones equalling bonding effects / results" - the answer will be no.
And we all know what this is really all about is the introduction of more ranks to grind out and pay for.
In essence power creep is fine if you are paying for it, bad if you already have it (Just like the changes to legendary companions stats buff - and lots of others already mentioned)
I understand the game has to make money and I am happy to help pay to play new content. The trouble with the changes being made is that they are taking away content I have already paid to play and asking me to pay again for it
I for one won't - the effect will be that I will spend less money, if any on this game
And in the meantime I will be left playing stuff I was playing a year ago with the content I am playing now out of my reach. While I will also have to build my toon up again from the ground changing all enchants to fit into the new bonding stat design. Again this is introducing yet another extra not needed grind they I really cannot be bothered with. And that's the point many players are trying to express in different ways. The changes will break the balance of stats upon anyone's build forcing them to start again. That's why along with reduced player content many with just not bother
I have yet to hear anyone in game who is happy about these changes - and it is not because of reduced DPS solely
Yet you all also know it will happen regardless of what is posted here, and regardless of player concerns. Hell they have already coded it and spent their money doing so - it is what it is and people wont be happy
Enjoy the content you have now before it vanishes would be my suggesion
What bothers me the most is that I saw this happen already in smaller games, they release a patch that was supposed to "address something overpowered" that everyone got used to and isn't even overpowerd according to everyone but the devs, and the game died overnight. It brings a tear to my eye. Anyways, recorded what I wanted to show, just a bit of cutting and compressing and it's out.
Rendering, possibly compressing soon and uploading. Video format because I want people to be able to do other stuff while listening to my amazingly terrible voice.
> @wickedduck22#9795 said: > In regard to the Power share with bondings, Calm down, let's see how it will be first now that the bonding got reduced they won't give as much just wait and see today on preview how much power we will get doubt you will be able to reach 250-280k anytime soon. The power sharing is what made AC DC viable if that gets removed, AC DC will be another divine oracle (old divine oracle).
thing is I don't want my personal stats nerfed, by all means nerf group buffs but leave my personal stats alone
> @aelfgarmt said: > While I think most people can agree that Bonding Runestones are overpowered, it also cannot be denied that people have either paid real money or huge amounts of time to get these, and they have been in the game like this for a long time. They do need adjusting, but considering the time and money put into these by players, I would hope the devs would take a more measured and careful approach to adjusting the power of these items. Please, by all means, do something about them, just take baby steps when making changes. Why not adjust their power by 10%, and see what the effect is? If you feel that is not enough, another 10% in the next patch? It seems unwise to lower their power and up-time by such a huge amount in one fell swoop. > > Teegle
THEY ARE ONLY OVER POWERED WHEN THE POWER SHARE IS DOUBLE OR QUADRUPLE DIPPING!!! fk me how many times does this have to be said, I'm a bis gwf and with all my self buffs and bondings proced my ibs (gwfs hardest hitting single power) will hit for 1.5 mill now in a full buff team in fbi my ibs often hits for 35/40 mill, so you tell me which is making people over powered? bondings or bondings getting multiple buffs from power share? if the devs can't see this they must be stupid or maybe the devs do see this but think sod it nerfing power share won't make us any money.
no one wants to loose the last 6 to 8 months of time and or money they have put into this game just to be spoon fed it back to them over the next 6 to 8 months at a cost of a lot of time or a lot of money just to be put back to where they are now, if we are over powered now then once we get everything up to rank 13/14 won't we be back to being over powered and ready for a nerf again? they only reason to do this is greed and money grabbing it's that simple
> @ambisinisterr said: > a . Why don't we bring the others to par? > > I already answered this: If the major concern for the upcoming changes are because "bondings are the only runestone that end game players use," why nerf them? Why not just buff the other runestones instead to make them viable options for players. > > This was discussed in the live stream with Robert Gutschera ( @rgutscheradev ). > > Buffing sounds better than nerfing but it creates a whole lot of other problems. > Watch his response from 6:10-7:54 > > There's a term for the constant increase in power in video games as well: Power Creep. If you have ever played MMO's then you have experienced it to some extent. Here's a great video Extra Credits did on it years ago that sums up why it is to be avoided whenever possible. > > b. Why do we call the bonding that gives at best 30k stats total compared to other buffs that gives quadruple and more of that. If the problem is indeed the power creep the solution of nerfing the bondings doesn't really apply. (If need be I can provide screens and act logs) > > I am not understanding your wording. Are you asking why Bonding Runestones are an issue but other bonuses that give more are not? If that's the case this would be the same answer that Robert gave in the video. Bonding runestones had a spike that needed to be toned down to bring it in line with the other runestones. Power Creep is the answer why not to buff everything else, not the reason why the nerf is taking place. c. About augments VS companions. Powershare again is the MAIN factor that forbids people from using augment. Even if the augment was to give 30% more stat points than normal companions / bondings combo, since it cant receive the excessive amount of powershare it will always be the very last option. (if it was ever to be an option) > > This is tied very much with the second question. The nerf is meant to bring them more in line with the other options but it was specifically stated that they expect them to be slightly better than the other options even after the change.
so if this is cryptics way of thinking nerf instead of buff because of power creep then why didn't they nerf the vorpal instead of buffing all the other weapon enchants? or why have they made it so 5 legendary companions now give you more stats? I will tell you why because buffing other enchants MADE THEM MONEY by people putting money into ad to get the new buffed enchants they said these enchants wouldn't over shadows the vorpal but they did, making all your companions legendary costs ad or buy the new companion vouchers in the Zen store aka MAKING THEM MONEY, cryptic must think we are all stupid, you can't cry about players being over powered after buffing the % companions give you and buffing weapon enchants
The fact that bonding got reduced forces player to rearrange all of their stats to balance their builds a new - keep some enchants, replace some - time effort grind - done once now required to do again to get the stats built the way you want because the bonding design is changing. So its not solely about the reduction - but how the reduction will effect people overall. And as already stated by many getting these large amounts of stats increases they are not coming from the way bonding are now designed, but by the mechanics of buffs applied to them.
I am not asking for any classes to be made worthless - I would be happy for bonding to stay as they are and not be ranked 14, and not apply extra bonus after R12 - hence only work upto 700 stats per enchant rather then the new 1000.
But the changes will be applied as they have stated - so don't worry no one is touches your DC as far as I know anyway
> @mat44444 said: > Hi > > > muckingfuppet > > The fact that bonding got reduced forces player to rearrange all of their stats to balance their builds a new - keep some enchants, replace some - time effort grind - done once now required to do again to get the stats built the way you want because the bonding design is changing. So its not solely about the reduction - but how the reduction will effect people overall. And as already stated by many getting these large amounts of stats increases they are not coming from the way bonding are now designed, but by the mechanics of buffs applied to them. > > I am not asking for any classes to be made worthless - I would be happy for bonding to stay as they are and not be ranked 14, and not apply extra bonus after R12 - hence only work upto 700 stats per enchant rather then the new 1000. > > But the changes will be applied as they have stated - so don't worry no one is touches your DC as far as I know anyway
I don't have a dc and never said I did read my post again I don't think you have grasped what I'm saying
> @oria1 said: > I am not understanding your wording. Are you asking why Bonding Runestones are an issue but other bonuses that give more are not? If that's the case this would be the same answer that Robert gave in the video. Bonding runestones had a spike that needed to be toned down to bring it in line with the other runestones. Power Creep is the answer why not to buff everything else, not the reason why the nerf is taking place. > > > Maybe I need to make it more clear. One one hand we have an item that gives at best 285% of 10k stats = 30k stats. On the other hand we have class buff THROUGH the bonding that give +from as low as 60k and if used by both classes in a party up to +200k stats. So we have > 30k Vs 200k . Which one does it look like it needs a tone down stat wise? If there is a doubt about this, again I can provide screens. > This is tied very much with the second question. The nerf is meant to bring them more in line with the other options but it was specifically stated that they expect them to be slightly better than the other options even after the change. > > > But there will never be even close let alone in line. Be honest here, Lets assume that the devs even over buff the augments and with an augment companion you will get 40k stats and with bondings you will get 25k stats BUT the powershare will still give you through the bonding 70k power extra (I can easy take it to 150k but I'm keeping the average), so 25k +70k = 95k. > Which one would be the smart and wise choice to take? Which one do you think they player base will choose? > On top a BIG portion of the mount bonuses wont work with augments. BIG minus for augment > > And I will insist and I hope you don't mind, but why when we are talking about power creep (and rightfully so), the devs introduce items such as this that INCREASE the power (not the stat) and make things even more ... easy and trivial? > > > > Doesn't it defy the point and contradict the Power creep argument? > When you increase the stats on enchants while you (plural) call that we have to much stats? > > My argument is this, YES we have a power creep but the solution that is provided doesn't really solve much of the problems either with power creep or bringing the other enchants in line (not even close) > > Its like me coming to tell you that I will lower your paycheck because we need to cut down on expenses and then go buy a Ferrari. > > Thank you.
i agree that as a company you need to make money to build and create us new mods etc but there are better ways to earn money than completely HAMSTER over your fan base you could bring in things that would keep people here, make them happy and want to spend money such as:
1) rather than nerf bonding add a buff to the companion runestones similar to armor/weapon enchants like a 2% damage bonus to your party for running eldritch etc this will make people choose something different over bondings
2) increase augments to near where bonding procs and give the players a decision what to run with.
3) unbind token from charactor to account bound.
4) not havin lazy as HAMSTER devs that rather then make harder content like players have asked they just nerf players!
4)fashion tab where you can keep your never ending fashion sets
and there are alot more ideas fliating around if you actually oayed attention and listened to the only reason this game exists.....THE PLAYER'S!!!!!!
There is so much good that can be done to this game but you always choose to pick the worst ideas! i have NEVER seen the community so disheartened about playing this game until now! Alot of players are already leaving and playing other game, path of exiles sprigs to mind all because you told us about the idea what do you think will happen when you bring it in!!??
A serious rethink of your "grand" ideas are needed because at the moment nobody is happy right now!!
We dont wanna change stats fo bondings. If youre make it, increase the properties of other stones will not work. Also bonding will be weaken us.Bondings at full bore made runs now, it's going to be harder across the board for everyone.do not play with these stones.do not set limits for these bondings.Sincerely.
Do not interfere with the bonding stats. This will not be good for new players.It may be easy for you to say it, but put yourself in the place of new players.We are curious. "How much do you think of new players."
In the new patch, this stone 8Bonding) game will overturn our layout and game balance. The fun we get from the game. I do not accept the new features of this stone.Do not touch the pleasure of the game.
you are always changing the values of the stones and trying to bring in innovation. This is HAMSTER. If you can not foresee it, why did you bring it first. The players gave so much effort. First of all, you have to pay for the time that the players spend. How players will start producing new things. They will not make money. Is that a good thing for you? By doing so, you will not win new players. Ps: You can not set balance more characters and everyone is so different. first make the character balances and then play with the stones
0
tripsofthrymrMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,624Community Moderator
If the both Nerf bondings and reduce buffs the games content is going to become unplayable.
I would be the first to get out the pitchforks if the changes made the content unplayable. The initial post said they have been keeping an eye on rebalancing content as necessary through the whole process. Have you been on preview and failed to run anything that you could run before? If so, that would be helpful feedback.
I stand in solidarity with those that oppose the nerfing of Bonding Stones. Those with the company will be able to verify, I have routinely spent substantial amounts of money on this game, and am Rank 12 VIP. As of now, all purchases to this game from me will be on hold. This will stay the case if Bonding Stones are nerfed. They are a central part of gameplay, and a large investment for many. Please understand that I do not do this lightly, and that it is a considered decision based on what I see for the future of a beloved title, not an act of rage or malice.
Hi dev, you will make the unused runestones useful, then do all the same with the bonding, people use the runestone according to your needs ... defence or attack it doesn't matter.
Comments
Personally I think everything should be capped at 80%
30k Vs 200k . Which one does it look like it needs a tone down stat wise? If there is a doubt about this, again I can provide screens. But there will never be even close let alone in line. Be honest here, Lets assume that the devs even over buff the augments and with an augment companion you will get 40k stats and with bondings you will get 25k stats BUT the powershare will still give you through the bonding 70k power extra (I can easy take it to 150k but I'm keeping the average), so 25k +70k = 95k.
Which one would be the smart and wise choice to take? Which one do you think they player base will choose?
On top a BIG portion of the mount bonuses wont work with augments. BIG minus for augment
And I will insist and I hope you don't mind, but why when we are talking about power creep (and rightfully so), the devs introduce items such as this that INCREASE the power (not the stat) and make things even more ... easy and trivial?
Doesn't it defy the point and contradict the Power creep argument?
When you increase the stats on enchants while you (plural) call that we have to much stats?
My argument is this, YES we have a power creep but the solution that is provided doesn't really solve much of the problems either with power creep or bringing the other enchants in line (not even close)
Its like me coming to tell you that I will lower your paycheck because we need to cut down on expenses and then go buy a Ferrari.
Thank you.
You can try to explain it any way you like and some of the points may be fair, but the net result will be the same: A player exodus.
If the devs think the changes are worth losing a large chunk of the player base then good luck to them.
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
The streamlining of the refinement process sounds nice in and of itself but even that is soured by the heavy nerf to bondings (even without the 50% uptime nonsense...I hope it will work like before...apart from the heavy % nerf?) and the lengthening of an already very lengthy refinement process. One doesn' t need to be a genius to see why players might not be giddy about you taking away a ton of stats they already had while offering them different and very costly ways to try and get them back again...You also failed epically in explaining why, how this could possibly be beneficial to you, the players, game design, anything...it' s just baffling. Just like the new idea for random queues...I cannot imagine how anyone could have come up with that with a straight face. Seriously.. I just don' t know. But: no shame whatsoever in having outrageously bad ideas every now and then if you don' t stick to the them!
Even if bonding has 0 stat rating will still be the number one choice because power share will still buff the base power of the companion and then bonding will transfer it to the player. Power share and augment do not go together.
1. players will lose a huge chunk of their ability until they finally level their gear back up
2. levelling the gear back up will cost an absolute fortune
3. players will feel like their characters have just been reduced by about 3k IL and will be angry
4. having an extra 2 tiers on enchantments will increase the gap between new & old and will take new players even longer to get to BiS.
5. less people will run alts due to the expense of levelling one character - as such we will have even less DCs and Tanks - leading to worse grouping experiences
Xael De Armadeon: DC
Xane De Armadeon: CW
Zen De Armadeon: OP
Zohar De Armadeon: TR
Chrion De Armadeon: SW
Gosti Big Belly: GWF
Barney McRustbucket: GF
Lt. Thackeray: HR
Lucius De Armadeon: BD
Member of Casual Dailies - XBox
1) On the one hand you state you don't want power creep, on the other you introduce power creep artifact.
2) you refuse to acknowledge that bondings have broken interactions with some classes
3) you announce a nerf of an item, which will still be BiS, at the same time you announce that the stats we loose we can get by refining more and more enchants.
4) You say that buffing other, existing runestones is a power, despite it beeing the exact opposite of a power creep (i.e. introducing new items performing the same task better, you know like your new artifact)
[PS4] Alliance - House Stargaryen
I don't go into LFG in PE for any of those 3 dungeons on my main, on the basis that just because they can parrot 2xDC/OP/GF/HDPS all with R12 Bondings doesn't mean I trust them to know what they are doing. I can't speak for TONG but if you can do FBI and MSP with R12's now (which you clearly stated you did not have 3xR12) you won't have any issues running them still.
Most of the time I end up having no companion on Turtle and don't notice till the end, but like I said, I don't pug those dungeons.
Hi
oria1 - Just so you know we all understand and agree with your remarks - why reduced bonding stones rather than the buffs that are crafting the real DPS additions to reduce power creep. We all also know the answer - because it is not about power creep. It is also not about giving players viable different paths either. Another option that almost equals the potential of bonding's is not another equal path giving players choice. They will all opt for bonding stones still. Ask any player who plays "do they object to other stones equalling bonding effects / results" - the answer will be no.
And we all know what this is really all about is the introduction of more ranks to grind out and pay for.
In essence power creep is fine if you are paying for it, bad if you already have it (Just like the changes to legendary companions stats buff - and lots of others already mentioned)
I understand the game has to make money and I am happy to help pay to play new content. The trouble with the changes being made is that they are taking away content I have already paid to play and asking me to pay again for it
I for one won't - the effect will be that I will spend less money, if any on this game
And in the meantime I will be left playing stuff I was playing a year ago with the content I am playing now out of my reach. While I will also have to build my toon up again from the ground changing all enchants to fit into the new bonding stat design. Again this is introducing yet another extra not needed grind they I really cannot be bothered with. And that's the point many players are trying to express in different ways. The changes will break the balance of stats upon anyone's build forcing them to start again. That's why along with reduced player content many with just not bother
I have yet to hear anyone in game who is happy about these changes - and it is not because of reduced DPS solely
Yet you all also know it will happen regardless of what is posted here, and regardless of player concerns. Hell they have already coded it and spent their money doing so - it is what it is and people wont be happy
Enjoy the content you have now before it vanishes would be my suggesion
Rendering, possibly compressing soon and uploading. Video format because I want people to be able to do other stuff while listening to my amazingly terrible voice.
> In regard to the Power share with bondings, Calm down, let's see how it will be first now that the bonding got reduced they won't give as much just wait and see today on preview how much power we will get doubt you will be able to reach 250-280k anytime soon. The power sharing is what made AC DC viable if that gets removed, AC DC will be another divine oracle (old divine oracle).
thing is I don't want my personal stats nerfed, by all means nerf group buffs but leave my personal stats alone
> While I think most people can agree that Bonding Runestones are overpowered, it also cannot be denied that people have either paid real money or huge amounts of time to get these, and they have been in the game like this for a long time. They do need adjusting, but considering the time and money put into these by players, I would hope the devs would take a more measured and careful approach to adjusting the power of these items. Please, by all means, do something about them, just take baby steps when making changes. Why not adjust their power by 10%, and see what the effect is? If you feel that is not enough, another 10% in the next patch? It seems unwise to lower their power and up-time by such a huge amount in one fell swoop.
>
> Teegle
THEY ARE ONLY OVER POWERED WHEN THE POWER SHARE IS DOUBLE OR QUADRUPLE DIPPING!!! fk me how many times does this have to be said, I'm a bis gwf and with all my self buffs and bondings proced my ibs (gwfs hardest hitting single power) will hit for 1.5 mill now in a full buff team in fbi my ibs often hits for 35/40 mill, so you tell me which is making people over powered? bondings or bondings getting multiple buffs from power share? if the devs can't see this they must be stupid or maybe the devs do see this but think sod it nerfing power share won't make us any money.
no one wants to loose the last 6 to 8 months of time and or money they have put into this game just to be spoon fed it back to them over the next 6 to 8 months at a cost of a lot of time or a lot of money just to be put back to where they are now, if we are over powered now then once we get everything up to rank 13/14 won't we be back to being over powered and ready for a nerf again? they only reason to do this is greed and money grabbing it's that simple
> a . Why don't we bring the others to par?
>
> I already answered this: If the major concern for the upcoming changes are because "bondings are the only runestone that end game players use," why nerf them? Why not just buff the other runestones instead to make them viable options for players.
>
> This was discussed in the live stream with Robert Gutschera ( @rgutscheradev ).
>
> Buffing sounds better than nerfing but it creates a whole lot of other problems.
> Watch his response from 6:10-7:54
>
> There's a term for the constant increase in power in video games as well: Power Creep. If you have ever played MMO's then you have experienced it to some extent. Here's a great video Extra Credits did on it years ago that sums up why it is to be avoided whenever possible.
>
> b. Why do we call the bonding that gives at best 30k stats total compared to other buffs that gives quadruple and more of that. If the problem is indeed the power creep the solution of nerfing the bondings doesn't really apply. (If need be I can provide screens and act logs)
>
> I am not understanding your wording. Are you asking why Bonding Runestones are an issue but other bonuses that give more are not? If that's the case this would be the same answer that Robert gave in the video. Bonding runestones had a spike that needed to be toned down to bring it in line with the other runestones. Power Creep is the answer why not to buff everything else, not the reason why the nerf is taking place. c. About augments VS companions. Powershare again is the MAIN factor that forbids people from using augment. Even if the augment was to give 30% more stat points than normal companions / bondings combo, since it cant receive the excessive amount of powershare it will always be the very last option. (if it was ever to be an option)
>
> This is tied very much with the second question. The nerf is meant to bring them more in line with the other options but it was specifically stated that they expect them to be slightly better than the other options even after the change.
so if this is cryptics way of thinking nerf instead of buff because of power creep then why didn't they nerf the vorpal instead of buffing all the other weapon enchants? or why have they made it so 5 legendary companions now give you more stats? I will tell you why because buffing other enchants MADE THEM MONEY by people putting money into ad to get the new buffed enchants they said these enchants wouldn't over shadows the vorpal but they did, making all your companions legendary costs ad or buy the new companion vouchers in the Zen store aka MAKING THEM MONEY, cryptic must think we are all stupid, you can't cry about players being over powered after buffing the % companions give you and buffing weapon enchants
muckingfuppet
The fact that bonding got reduced forces player to rearrange all of their stats to balance their builds a new - keep some enchants, replace some - time effort grind - done once now required to do again to get the stats built the way you want because the bonding design is changing. So its not solely about the reduction - but how the reduction will effect people overall. And as already stated by many getting these large amounts of stats increases they are not coming from the way bonding are now designed, but by the mechanics of buffs applied to them.
I am not asking for any classes to be made worthless - I would be happy for bonding to stay as they are and not be ranked 14, and not apply extra bonus after R12 - hence only work upto 700 stats per enchant rather then the new 1000.
But the changes will be applied as they have stated - so don't worry no one is touches your DC as far as I know anyway
> Hi
>
>
> muckingfuppet
>
> The fact that bonding got reduced forces player to rearrange all of their stats to balance their builds a new - keep some enchants, replace some - time effort grind - done once now required to do again to get the stats built the way you want because the bonding design is changing. So its not solely about the reduction - but how the reduction will effect people overall. And as already stated by many getting these large amounts of stats increases they are not coming from the way bonding are now designed, but by the mechanics of buffs applied to them.
>
> I am not asking for any classes to be made worthless - I would be happy for bonding to stay as they are and not be ranked 14, and not apply extra bonus after R12 - hence only work upto 700 stats per enchant rather then the new 1000.
>
> But the changes will be applied as they have stated - so don't worry no one is touches your DC as far as I know anyway
I don't have a dc and never said I did read my post again I don't think you have grasped what I'm saying
> I am not understanding your wording. Are you asking why Bonding Runestones are an issue but other bonuses that give more are not? If that's the case this would be the same answer that Robert gave in the video. Bonding runestones had a spike that needed to be toned down to bring it in line with the other runestones. Power Creep is the answer why not to buff everything else, not the reason why the nerf is taking place.
>
>
> Maybe I need to make it more clear. One one hand we have an item that gives at best 285% of 10k stats = 30k stats. On the other hand we have class buff THROUGH the bonding that give +from as low as 60k and if used by both classes in a party up to +200k stats. So we have
> 30k Vs 200k . Which one does it look like it needs a tone down stat wise? If there is a doubt about this, again I can provide screens.
> This is tied very much with the second question. The nerf is meant to bring them more in line with the other options but it was specifically stated that they expect them to be slightly better than the other options even after the change.
>
>
> But there will never be even close let alone in line. Be honest here, Lets assume that the devs even over buff the augments and with an augment companion you will get 40k stats and with bondings you will get 25k stats BUT the powershare will still give you through the bonding 70k power extra (I can easy take it to 150k but I'm keeping the average), so 25k +70k = 95k.
> Which one would be the smart and wise choice to take? Which one do you think they player base will choose?
> On top a BIG portion of the mount bonuses wont work with augments. BIG minus for augment
>
> And I will insist and I hope you don't mind, but why when we are talking about power creep (and rightfully so), the devs introduce items such as this that INCREASE the power (not the stat) and make things even more ... easy and trivial?
>
>
>
> Doesn't it defy the point and contradict the Power creep argument?
> When you increase the stats on enchants while you (plural) call that we have to much stats?
>
> My argument is this, YES we have a power creep but the solution that is provided doesn't really solve much of the problems either with power creep or bringing the other enchants in line (not even close)
>
> Its like me coming to tell you that I will lower your paycheck because we need to cut down on expenses and then go buy a Ferrari.
>
> Thank you.
well said let's see his answer to this lol
muckingfuppet
Your right I Did misread - a big SORRY
1) rather than nerf bonding add a buff to the companion runestones similar to armor/weapon enchants like a 2% damage bonus to your party for running eldritch etc this will make people choose something different over bondings
2) increase augments to near where bonding procs and give the players a decision what to run with.
3) unbind token from charactor to account bound.
4) not havin lazy as HAMSTER devs that rather then make harder content like players have asked they just nerf players!
4)fashion tab where you can keep your never ending fashion sets
and there are alot more ideas fliating around if you actually oayed attention and listened to the only reason this game exists.....THE PLAYER'S!!!!!!
There is so much good that can be done to this game but you always choose to pick the worst ideas! i have NEVER seen the community so disheartened about playing this game until now! Alot of players are already leaving and playing other game, path of exiles sprigs to mind all because you told us about the idea what do you think will happen when you bring it in!!??
A serious rethink of your "grand" ideas are needed because at the moment nobody is happy right now!!
In the new patch, this stone 8Bonding) game will overturn our layout and game balance. The fun we get from the game.
I do not accept the new features of this stone.Do not touch the pleasure of the game.
How players will start producing new things. They will not make money. Is that a good thing for you? By doing so, you will not win new players.
Ps: You can not set balance more characters and everyone is so different. first make the character balances and then play with the stones
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min