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Official Feedback Thread: Weapon Enhancement Changes

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  • hastati96hastati96 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    @asterdahl

    thanks for making these changes! A Trans Frost is definetly worth to use in support builds now! The low overall uptime was the worst problem imo. I am glad you get rid of it :)

    How does the 25% recharge speed reduction effect non-player targets?
    Post edited by hastati96 on
    Nero - Palacetamol - Essence of Aggression
  • rinat114rinat114 Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    Meh, it's kind of funny how you guys (developers) stated you don't wish to change the world order and make the adjusted WE's instantly BIS to not hurt literally 99% of the game population who's running Vorpal/Dreads, however you did just that. Bile/Lightning will be BIS for DPS in most if not all cases depends on the class.
    Everyone can kiss their Vorp/Dreads goodbye, wonder how the market will look like after Mod 11 in terms of WE's.
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I checked my combat logs from the past month and getting to the 200% in not as dificult as it may seem, but is very dependent on the class i was playing, my cw is speced MoF renegade and a big chunk of the logs i have are at 200% effectivness, same goes for my DC(righteous), same goes for at wills on my gwf but, this is much more noticeable in single targets, i dont think i need to explain why.

    @asterdahl
    @rgutscheradev

    Why are companions accounted for not capped mitigation? A target can perfectly take 3 million hps/s, and there is no other companion that can deal 600k hps/s in the game, not even giving up on all boons/companions active bonuses over a companion damage it will ever get close to 600k dps. But i do think they should be taken in consideration and always "do something".



    Solo against lostmauth 30k hps all buffs possible on a companion.

    My opinion remains, effectivness after the 200% cap should not exist as a multiplicative value and every debuff applied on the target should increase damage.


    And for people saying : "bah just a game of interests" i sold most of my things and have all classes well developed, including dancing shields and con artist like companions, so i can decide to main any of them at any time, im in favor of all of them, so spare me that comment.

  • acklinacklin Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    will other enchantments like holy and terror be getting a longer up time as well?
  • mightyerikssonmightyeriksson Member Posts: 842 Arc User
    While not being a Weapon Enchant, it would still be nice/fun if you could show the Tenebrous enchantment some love, they are getting quite dusty, thrown in a dark corner of the bank and all but forgotten...
  • marnivalmarnival Member Posts: 1,432 Arc User

    While not being a Weapon Enchant, it would still be nice/fun if you could show the Tenebrous enchantment some love, they are getting quite dusty, thrown in a dark corner of the bank and all but forgotten...

    +1
  • kieranmtornkieranmtorn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 382 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    BUG: Lostmoth's Vengeance doesn't proc if equipped with Terror or Flaming on GWF. Based on this it probably doesn't proc for all classes and most of the reworked enchantments.
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited February 2017

    BUG: Lostmoth's Vengeance doesn't proc if equipped with Terror or Flaming on GWF. Based on this it probably doesn't proc for all classes and most of the reworked enchantments.

    Somebody else mentioned somewhere that they were having issues with Lostmauth's Vengeance and a reworked enchant. Want to say they were playing HR.

    To be niggly about it, have affected players tried removing all their equipment including unslotting enchants, and then putting things back? I am thinking about the triple-stat enchants that stopped working and could be corrected by removing and reslotting all your stuff.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

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  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    rinat114 said:

    Meh, it's kind of funny how you guys (developers) stated you don't wish to change the world order and make the adjusted WE's instantly BIS to not hurt literally 99% of the game population who's running Vorpal/Dreads, however you did just that. Bile/Lightning will be BIS for DPS in most if not all cases depends on the class.
    Everyone can kiss their Vorp/Dreads goodbye, wonder how the market will look like after Mod 11 in terms of WE's.

    It's not because lot if not everyone runs Vorpal that it has to be BiS for all time. You benefited it long enough without any nerf.
    So stop implying you'll be rekt, you'll not lose any DPS; it's just there could be better choice for DPS (and not burst one, Vorpal will still be better in terms of burst).

    Honestly I'm glad to say "HAMSTER" to this Vorpal enchantment because i'm sick of seing it literally everywhere and obliterate every single enchantments.
  • rinat114rinat114 Member Posts: 913 Arc User
    c3rb3r3 said:

    rinat114 said:

    Meh, it's kind of funny how you guys (developers) stated you don't wish to change the world order and make the adjusted WE's instantly BIS to not hurt literally 99% of the game population who's running Vorpal/Dreads, however you did just that. Bile/Lightning will be BIS for DPS in most if not all cases depends on the class.
    Everyone can kiss their Vorp/Dreads goodbye, wonder how the market will look like after Mod 11 in terms of WE's.

    It's not because lot if not everyone runs Vorpal that it has to be BiS for all time. You benefited it long enough without any nerf.
    So stop implying you'll be rekt, you'll not lose any DPS; it's just there could be better choice for DPS (and not burst one, Vorpal will still be better in terms of burst).

    Honestly I'm glad to say "HAMSTER" to this Vorpal enchantment because i'm sick of seing it literally everywhere and obliterate every single enchantments.
    Uhm, I think you completely misunderstood my intention. My DPS won't get rekt, I can easily buy a trans Bilethorn, I have the funds - I'll be completely fine with the transition, but this isn't about me. My point is, there's no reason for more overpowered things in this game. Why not adjust Bile/Fey/Lightning to be on par with Vorpal/Dread instead of surpassing them? Make them a valid option, but not instantly BIS, is what I meant. Easy for you to wave your hands and tell me I'm butthurt without really reading into my complaint. To make it clearer:


    The Design Goal
    The goal is NOT to make these other WEs better than Dread or Vorpal. The goal is just to get them onto the same playing field. Given how much some players have invested in their WEs, and how much effort it is to switch to a new one, we’d rather the new WEs come in a bit below Dread/Vorpal rather than above (because we don't want to be obsoleting anything). In any case, it’s still a really dramatic buff to all these WEs.

    There's a huge gap between the design goals and the eventual result.
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User
    @asterdahl @rgutscheradev Please undo the change to dreadtheft and allow it to proc more than once off WEs. SW already suffers enough as it is. It doesn't need to be forced to stick with vorpals, fey, and dread to be competitive.
  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    Not just Dreadtheft, but Blades of Vanquished Armies. They basically just destroyed the SW for mod 11 weapon enchant changes with this incredibly uninformed and nonobjective change.

    The reason SWs scale so well with crit is that, by itself, it has a harder time stacking +%damage from sources. Natively, a lot of its damage comes from a combination of direct damage feat procs, class mechanics and debuffs (see recent cap discussions). Compare to class/builds like Destroyer GWFs who basically get a blanket +40%damage with a single feat (their capstone) that stacks well with their various other feats/class features/mechanics.

    Which now fully benefit scaling weapon enchantment procs, btw.

    And that is why the SW makes up for by having multi-proc encounter powers or really hard-hitting low-proc nukes. The latter is why Vorpal/Dread are so great on an SW.
    Seriously, SW non-utility at-wills are already mechanically subpar - Eldritch Blast is a classic caster at-will that only does an AoE on the third hit, compare to many GWF at-wills which are AoE on all hits - and SW dailies are on the extremes of single target and utility.

    Isn't there someone who's supposed to be keeping track of these sort of things?
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • niadanniadan Member Posts: 1,635 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    So is what is the concensus on which weapon enchants will be best for aoe and for single target...by class?
  • raydrootraydroot Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 110 Arc User
    For CW SS Thaum, I will use Lightning for mobs, Dread for Boss. I ACT'd all the enchants and that is what's best for me.
  • neverwinterdevilneverwinterdevil Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 74 Arc User
    tyrtallow said:

    Not just Dreadtheft, but Blades of Vanquished Armies. They basically just destroyed the SW for mod 11 weapon enchant changes with this incredibly uninformed and nonobjective change.

    The reason SWs scale so well with crit is that, by itself, it has a harder time stacking +%damage from sources. Natively, a lot of its damage comes from a combination of direct damage feat procs, class mechanics and debuffs (see recent cap discussions). Compare to class/builds like Destroyer GWFs who basically get a blanket +40%damage with a single feat (their capstone) that stacks well with their various other feats/class features/mechanics.

    Which now fully benefit scaling weapon enchantment procs, btw.

    And that is why the SW makes up for by having multi-proc encounter powers or really hard-hitting low-proc nukes. The latter is why Vorpal/Dread are so great on an SW.
    Seriously, SW non-utility at-wills are already mechanically subpar - Eldritch Blast is a classic caster at-will that only does an AoE on the third hit, compare to many GWF at-wills which are AoE on all hits - and SW dailies are on the extremes of single target and utility.

    Isn't there someone who's supposed to be keeping track of these sort of things?

    i agree.
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    Wait for preview to be updated, from what i understood from the original "how this is going to be " post DoT will proc a smaller % of the weapon damage, maybe those powers will be considered as DoT.

  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    Wait for preview to be updated, from what i understood from the original "how this is going to be " post DoT will proc a smaller % of the weapon damage, maybe those powers will be considered as DoT.

    Still a titanic nerf for already awkward powers. Blades is close quarters, and CC removes it, so no dps if you get CC'd, or have to dodge. Dreadtheft is a slow dps power. You need speed buffs if you plan on using it all the time since it gimps your movement. Being able to use at-wills while channeling it is probably not wai. I'd rather see that fixed than DT being useless with anything but the 3 cheese WEs.

    The devs are treating it like its some god tier hdps encounter, which it isn't.... Even the cw can pump out damage faster than what DT can put out.

  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    rinat114 said:

    c3rb3r3 said:

    rinat114 said:

    Meh, it's kind of funny how you guys (developers) stated you don't wish to change the world order and make the adjusted WE's instantly BIS to not hurt literally 99% of the game population who's running Vorpal/Dreads, however you did just that. Bile/Lightning will be BIS for DPS in most if not all cases depends on the class.
    Everyone can kiss their Vorp/Dreads goodbye, wonder how the market will look like after Mod 11 in terms of WE's.

    It's not because lot if not everyone runs Vorpal that it has to be BiS for all time. You benefited it long enough without any nerf.
    So stop implying you'll be rekt, you'll not lose any DPS; it's just there could be better choice for DPS (and not burst one, Vorpal will still be better in terms of burst).

    Honestly I'm glad to say "HAMSTER" to this Vorpal enchantment because i'm sick of seing it literally everywhere and obliterate every single enchantments.
    Uhm, I think you completely misunderstood my intention. My DPS won't get rekt, I can easily buy a trans Bilethorn, I have the funds - I'll be completely fine with the transition, but this isn't about me. My point is, there's no reason for more overpowered things in this game. Why not adjust Bile/Fey/Lightning to be on par with Vorpal/Dread instead of surpassing them? Make them a valid option, but not instantly BIS, is what I meant. Easy for you to wave your hands and tell me I'm butthurt without really reading into my complaint.
    Indeed, misread it, my bad. And on that point I agree with you :P
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    ghoulz66 said:

    Wait for preview to be updated, from what i understood from the original "how this is going to be " post DoT will proc a smaller % of the weapon damage, maybe those powers will be considered as DoT.

    Still a titanic nerf for already awkward powers. Blades is close quarters, and CC removes it, so no dps if you get CC'd, or have to dodge. Dreadtheft is a slow dps power. You need speed buffs if you plan on using it all the time since it gimps your movement. Being able to use at-wills while channeling it is probably not wai. I'd rather see that fixed than DT being useless with anything but the 3 cheese WEs.

    The devs are treating it like its some god tier hdps encounter, which it isn't.... Even the cw can pump out damage faster than what DT can put out.

    In a endgame SW a T.vorpal will be more or less 30-35% dps increase, all DT has to perform with other enchants is around that not 80% it was before with lightning (wich is in reallity more because of the cooldown), DT is not a bad encounter, it has a nice synergy with acc and is fundamentally a party buffer but many times the effectivness is already 200% , since devs dont wanto to make effectivness as a diminish over investment DT should at least be considered non capped effectivness for the SW.


  • tyrtallowtyrtallow Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 747 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    It doesn't work that way. You don't look at a single power like Dreadtheft and then try to balance it as if it's just some other run-of the-mill DoT, you balance it with respect to the class as a whole and then with respect to its interaction with powers from other classes.

    T. Vorpal, for example, works on ALL SW attack powers while T. Lightning obviously only scales well on a few. Are you seriously trying to argue that T. Lightning Dreadtheft is going to be able to match the combined DPS of T.Vorpal-scaling encounters like Killing Flames or Soul Scorch? Especially given the new way Tyrannical Curse works (can now be used with Warlock's Curse, allowing Curse Consume effects to be used on targets with Tyrannical Curse). Do you even know that Dreadtheft is basically a DPS loss if your other powers become usable again while it's up? Or that it shares the same weaknesses as Blades, and becomes a significant DPS loss if interrupted? Or that given the current meta (leader classes now use a lot -cooldown effects, like from paladins auras/feats and DC Hastening Light) Dreadtheft is a massive DPS loss while being cast because no cooldown reduction is taking place?
    We've not even started on the the complexities of debuff stacking and already we've hit a wall.

    Dreadtheft's multi-proccing ability is one of the MAJOR reasons why people don't simply avoid using the power. The debuff is definitely great to have on ~10 or so member group content, but even on live people using Dreadtheft rely on its multic proc mechanic to do things like build Soul Sparks or proc companion/feat/item effects.
    And as I already pointed out, the change becomes even more stupid considering other classes, like the CW (multi proc powers + innate cooldown reduction passives and feats like Arcane Presence, Spell Twisting and Alacrity) and the GWF (spammable AoE at-wills plus a ton of innate +%damage buffs).

    Scaling down proc damage on multi-proc encounters sounds reasonable, as well as a more reasonable proc rate reduction, but the current significant proc rate reduction? You might as well replace Dreadtheft with something else.
    Post edited by tyrtallow on
    You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
  • dmcewendmcewen Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    How does the enchantment rework affect thornes roots? If the HR is going to work like SW, dread or vorpal will be the only option for trapper. Combat would be a different story.
    Guild: Ruthless
    Character: Vendetta
  • adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    niadan said:

    So is what is the concensus on which weapon enchants will be best for aoe and for single target...by class?

    This is not just a "by class" question. For example, some classes can have a viable "high crit" build or a "high power" build - and different enchants would suit those different builds.

    Having said that, I would love to hear some speculation on which enchants will become most popular for the different classes/builds once M11 goes live.
    Hoping for improvements...
  • ghoulz66ghoulz66 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,748 Arc User

    ghoulz66 said:

    Wait for preview to be updated, from what i understood from the original "how this is going to be " post DoT will proc a smaller % of the weapon damage, maybe those powers will be considered as DoT.

    Still a titanic nerf for already awkward powers. Blades is close quarters, and CC removes it, so no dps if you get CC'd, or have to dodge. Dreadtheft is a slow dps power. You need speed buffs if you plan on using it all the time since it gimps your movement. Being able to use at-wills while channeling it is probably not wai. I'd rather see that fixed than DT being useless with anything but the 3 cheese WEs.

    The devs are treating it like its some god tier hdps encounter, which it isn't.... Even the cw can pump out damage faster than what DT can put out.

    In a endgame SW a T.vorpal will be more or less 30-35% dps increase, all DT has to perform with other enchants is around that not 80% it was before with lightning (wich is in reallity more because of the cooldown), DT is not a bad encounter, it has a nice synergy with acc and is fundamentally a party buffer but many times the effectivness is already 200% , since devs dont wanto to make effectivness as a diminish over investment DT should at least be considered non capped effectivness for the SW.

    A load of HAMSTER. While I'm channeling this thing, a gwf does more damage by simply using IBS once, or two WMS....... That gwf can get off a dozen WMS or sure strikes while that thing is still going.

    Both DT and blades deal pathetic damage over the course of their duration. Buffing? Have you LOOKED at what the trapper is capable of?!

    Because of this change its pointless to use other WEs. SWs lack the speed, self buffs, and proc rates to make viable use out of them now, so there goes build diversity down the toilet.
  • treesclimbertreesclimber Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,161 Arc User
    tyrtallow said:


    T. Vorpal, for example, works on ALL SW attack powers while T. Lightning obviously only scales well on a few. Are you seriously trying to argue that T. Lightning Dreadtheft is going to be able to match the combined DPS of T.Vorpal-scaling encounters like Killing Flames or Soul Scorch? Especially given the new way Tyrannical Curse works (can now be used with Warlock's Curse, allowing Curse Consume effects to be used on targets with Tyrannical Curse). Do you even know that Dreadtheft is basically a DPS loss if your other powers become usable again while it's up? Or that it shares the same weaknesses as Blades, and becomes a significant DPS loss if interrupted? Or that given the current meta (leader classes now use a lot -cooldown effects, like from paladins auras/feats and DC Hastening Light) Dreadtheft is a massive DPS loss while being cast because no cooldown reduction is taking place?
    We've not even started on the the complexities of debuff stacking and already we've hit a wall.

    Dreadtheft's multi-proccing ability is one of the MAJOR reasons why people don't simply avoid using the power. The debuff is definitely great to have on ~10 or so member group content, but even on live people using Dreadtheft rely on its multic proc mechanic to do things like build Soul Sparks or proc companion/feat/item effects.
    And as I already pointed out, the change becomes even more stupid considering other classes, like the CW (multi proc powers + innate cooldown reduction passives and feats like Arcane Presence, Spell Twisting and Alacrity) and the GWF (spammable AoE at-wills plus a ton of innate +%damage buffs).

    Scaling down proc damage on multi-proc encounters sounds reasonable, as well as a more reasonable proc rate reduction, but the current significant proc rate reduction? You might as well replace Dreadtheft with something else.


    I think it's linearity the devs are trying to achieve, so yes it's suposed to get close to vorpal, how does it make sence that 70% of my lightning damage comes from DT alone (with BoVa active at the same time), sure it would make some builds fancy that x or y encounter would be much better with this or that enchant but it could also mean that i keep using that same encounter to kill low life mobs that would die during the duration of the encounter by having a big burst right there. Not just that but CW's for example profit much more from lightnint, so to make everything easier to analize and make work without descrepancies giving all the classes similar enchants behaviour ( i dont mean like lightning will reduce all classes recharge speed by 5%, but not something like 40% for CW and 5% HR).

    At 0 effectivness dreadtheft will mean 25% damage increase, now apply that to spiritfire and wrathfull souls....and you have a lot of the damage other powers woud be dealing in it's place by your puppet damage, still increasing the party damage, along with this, you'll receiva a DR buff and a increase on the heal your soul puppet does on you, this is the great damnation synergy and the reason why i've respec damnation soon after the rework. DT can be cancelled slightly before it's visual effect is finished to get all the possible debuff, i never had too much recharge problems and if it triggered like it triggered before all the lightning cooldown chains would make other encouters avaliable much sooner, that goes against what you said, while if they are spread better among the encounters things like that wont have tendency to happen.

  • btairbornebtairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    c3rb3r3 said:

    rinat114 said:

    c3rb3r3 said:

    rinat114 said:

    Meh, it's kind of funny how you guys (developers) stated you don't wish to change the world order and make the adjusted WE's instantly BIS to not hurt literally 99% of the game population who's running Vorpal/Dreads, however you did just that. Bile/Lightning will be BIS for DPS in most if not all cases depends on the class.
    Everyone can kiss their Vorp/Dreads goodbye, wonder how the market will look like after Mod 11 in terms of WE's.

    It's not because lot if not everyone runs Vorpal that it has to be BiS for all time. You benefited it long enough without any nerf.
    So stop implying you'll be rekt, you'll not lose any DPS; it's just there could be better choice for DPS (and not burst one, Vorpal will still be better in terms of burst).

    Honestly I'm glad to say "HAMSTER" to this Vorpal enchantment because i'm sick of seing it literally everywhere and obliterate every single enchantments.
    Uhm, I think you completely misunderstood my intention. My DPS won't get rekt, I can easily buy a trans Bilethorn, I have the funds - I'll be completely fine with the transition, but this isn't about me. My point is, there's no reason for more overpowered things in this game. Why not adjust Bile/Fey/Lightning to be on par with Vorpal/Dread instead of surpassing them? Make them a valid option, but not instantly BIS, is what I meant. Easy for you to wave your hands and tell me I'm butthurt without really reading into my complaint.
    Indeed, misread it, my bad. And on that point I agree with you :P
    It sounds to me like Bilethorn won't be best dps for single target and if that is true I can see what they did here.
  • c3rb3r3c3rb3r3 Member Posts: 277 Arc User
    edited February 2017
    I think people forgot that Lightning enchantment was initially created to be the best DPS enchants against pack of mobs.
    Vorpal is the best one in term of burst, which also scales pretty well with your at-wills. Lightning enchantment doesn't scale with Encounter damages, Vorpal does. So I do think Lightning should be one if not the best enchantment (not by far obv) when against pack of mobs, and Vorpal getting better against single-target or when instant-killing ennemies.

    Following the initial aims of the enchantments would have been easier for the balance and the balance understanding for devs/players in my opinion.
  • btairbornebtairborne Member Posts: 352 Arc User
    The devs don't always elucidate their plans, which is fine, players should find things out themselves and not be told everything how things are supposed to work. I am guessing here they are intending to have Lightning and Bilethorn now be strongest for trash clearing/ multiple target damage and Vorpal/Dread be the single target damage enchantment kings.
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