I think the devs nailed it. Really glad they took a look at WEs and brought them all in line. I'm not particularly worried about Lightning or Bile being better than Vorpal or Dread because I don't believe that's the case at all for most classes. I have 2 main characters that I play on, a GWF and a DPS/Buff DC, both around 3800 ilevel. The GWF might benefit from the Lightning but my DC will still require a Dread for clutch Crit heals and the debuff from the enchantment. If it's seriously that much better Damage over a Vorpal or Dread maybe the devs can look at the DR on Crit Severity? (~180%) This way players stacking severity to the moon can still be top dog using their vorpals. I for one can't wait to get rid of the handcuffs. Been using a Vorpal forever.
At 0 effectivness dreadtheft will mean 25% damage increase, now apply that to spiritfire and wrathfull souls....and you have a lot of the damage other powers woud be dealing in it's place by your puppet damage, still increasing the party damage, along with this, you'll receiva a DR buff and a increase on the heal your soul puppet does on you, this is the great damnation synergy and the reason why i've respec damnation soon after the rework. DT can be cancelled slightly before it's visual effect is finished to get all the possible debuff, i never had too much recharge problems and if it triggered like it triggered before all the lightning cooldown chains would make other encouters avaliable much sooner, that goes against what you said, while if they are spread better among the encounters things like that wont have tendency to happen.
Only good in paper. You haven't actually played SWs extensively if you think that's exactly how things are going to work in practice. @ghoulz66 happens to be a longtime Damnation SW player, btw.
Did you honestly think that there aren't already T. Lightning or non-Dread/Vorpal-using Damnation SW players on live? It's very easy to think you've figured out everything about a build until you play them extensively. And some of these people have been playing these characters for almost a year. You normally don't hear about them because they rarely stand out damage/survivability-wise.
How is T. Lightning/Frost/etc. being ideal for multi-proc powers like Dreadtheft any different from T. Vorpal/Dreadtheft being ideal for massive damage powers like Killing Flames and Soul Scorch? In fact Killing Flames, being neither a channeled power or a special resource power, actually becomes spammable in parties with Justice pallies or Hastening Light DCs.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
1
Options
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited February 2017
Yep i know nothing of SW, HAMSTER those 55 days playing since mod 6 where in vain, * sigh* what should i do now? Migrate probably, or maybe you should spend at least 20 days playtime pugging in T2 (that is what my playtime consists) and then we talk.
0
Options
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
You have no idea how much things have shifted if you haven't played a SW this whole time. Back before the rework, the SW had the LM set to lean on, bugged powers, a bugged puppet. Damnation's damage came from the puppet, the SW itself had almost nothing competitive going for it less you were Fury making use of said buggy powers. The rework buffed some encounters and such, made Fury better. SB Fury is still a monster to be reckoned with, but damnation fell down the toilet since the puppet nerf. The damage decrease is large, the puppet is no longer a competitive source of DPS for endgame content. The lostmauth nerf wasn't helping either with the DPS loss.
It really @#$%es me off that I have to use an owlbear cub to remain relevant as a useful member for a group and even then my damage gets it's @#$ blown out of the water by HRs, competent TRs, GWFs, and many SS CWs. Damnation and Temptation desperately need all the extra sources of damage they can get.
I think the devs nailed it. Really glad they took a look at WEs and brought them all in line. I'm not particularly worried about Lightning or Bile being better than Vorpal or Dread because I don't believe that's the case at all for most classes. I have 2 main characters that I play on, a GWF and a DPS/Buff DC, both around 3800 ilevel. The GWF might benefit from the Lightning but my DC will still require a Dread for clutch Crit heals and the debuff from the enchantment. If it's seriously that much better Damage over a Vorpal or Dread maybe the devs can look at the DR on Crit Severity? (~180%) This way players stacking severity to the moon can still be top dog using their vorpals. I for one can't wait to get rid of the handcuffs. Been using a Vorpal forever.
BIS for a GWF would be literally switching out weapon enchantments depends on the content/dungeon phases. Bile is BIS for AOE/multitarget hands down, Vorpal still wins for burst of course but that's definitely gonna shake up the battle ground, sacrifice single target damage for great AOE or the other way around, etc. If they'll allow wepaon enchant switchout with the new loadout system this might solve the issue, but for now this is gonna be a problem
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
edited February 2017
.....i meant from mod 6 till now and i know trendy SB build to drain SS with HG and melt the whole room with SS + MF´TT i passed mod 6 as a SB temptation getting kicked many times even before loading the dungeon, i am glad the vote kick block was introduced. But i disagree with you when you say and damnation need more damage, they need their survival skills valued, if i wanted to be as dpsy as a fury i would be a fury not a damnlock, probably you dont have notion of the true survival basis because you never been through this scenario after the rework but i have multiple times (including lowering my ls to a minimum see what it was like):
DC DO on the team; Low LS chance without endless consumption; Tank incapable of holding aggro of a flee, even a dead one xD
As soon as AA, life steal, endless consumption and DT in target with 200% DR get a solution and they dont make players godlike you will see tons of people changing to damnation.
About temptation, definitivly needs a rework, with a accolite of kelemvor my LS(on a preview build) reaches a maximum of 88%, just leave PoP on the ground and all the team gets healed up in 2 seconds, damage is not as bad as it seems because of the owlbear cub, if you think it's a requirment in damnation, it's at least 40% of temptation damage, so quite much worse, it's working, yes but with a companion.
But what would bring making the game slower? Scratch cards.....yep, kinda, SVA for example what if SVA was a long fight with increased rewards and drop chance? Well suposing i didn't get anything it would create a sence of dispointment, in my head that opinion would grow, and if i did some more few runs and had bad luck that would incentivate me much more easly to give up than a fast squirmish with low reward because it creates a illusory sence of hope, it doesn't mean AD/hour is better than if we had longer runs, people just see mobs dying fast and under their sence that is cool, and when they do a fast run, they simply run another and another and another and loose the notion of time. I got tired of the system, pugging the original dungeons actually brings difficulty to the game.
Runing low level content and spending a lot of time in PE made me face plenty cases of people asking can i be this path or that and i either say: "No, only destroyer is viable, intigator iv is fun as well but on 5% of the cases will be better" or " yes you can be temptation but you need to get a owlbear cub and build power" or "you can be a DC DO but people will avoid you".
Anyway this is a WE discussion so....*slowly fades away saying bye*
0
Options
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
.....i meant from mod 6 till now and i know trendy SB build to drain SS with HG and melt the whole room with SS + MF´TT i passed mod 6 as a SB temptation getting kicked many times even before loading the dungeon, i am glad the vote kick block was introduced. But i disagree with you when you say and damnation need more damage, they need their survival skills valued, if i wanted to be as dpsy as a fury i would be a fury not a damnlock, probably you dont have notion of the true survival basis because you never been through this scenario after the rework but i have multiple times (including lowering my ls to a minimum see what it was like):
I never said ANYTHING about wanting to deal as much DPS as SB fury.
Let me make this perfectly clear. If I did not have this owlbear cub, my DPS would plummet down nearing healer/tank level of damage. I already cannot compete with SB fury or GWFs, or HRs....
This change to DT and blades is losing me damage. I will freakin lose DPS because of these changes compared to live.
He just pretty much confirmed that he hasn't been keeping himself updated on recent SW changes and mechanics.
Because non-Furylocks definitely don't need more damage, lifesteal nerfs are somehow going to break Fury and elevate Damnation, and warlocks should somehow be as tanky as actual tanks because that's the only way we're going to survive end-game content hits for LS to actually be more useful... which is going to be pointless in mid-ilvl PvE pugs because of feats like Mocking Spirit and defender companions. Arguing that your team is incompetent doesn't win you points BTW. We don't need players who didn't learn their class properly because they were carried through content, especially considering how power creep as made T1s very manageable for newbies. They can afford to learn their way through T2s without you babysitting them.
For the record, there have been a LOT of significant changes to warlocks since you last kept yourself up to date with the meta.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
0
Options
treesclimberMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,161Arc User
I have found this thread to be one of the most interesting, helpful and informative threads I have read in a long time and I actually read almost every single post...
I don't have any specific feedback yet other than thanks for adding back some purpose to many of the weapon enchantments, and fixing a few bugs in the process...that is really good for the game in my opinion.
The interaction and communication from the game developers is great and refreshing. While I don't understand all of the game design chatter, it sheds some light on many aspects of the complexity of the coding behind the game and I for one, appreciate this new communication with the player community. Thanks again and even if there are a few loose ends, I am looking forward to the changes.
TR - Sun: 16000 IL OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
3
Options
demonmongerMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,350Arc User
Bile for aoe is not as nice as lightning because it takes time for bile to tick in, sometimes long after the monsters are dead. Lightning is instant..
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I hate paying taxes! Why must I pay thousands of dollars in taxes when everything I buy is taxed anyways!
0
Options
ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
My feedback. Why did you remove the multi-trigger on enchants? That's no longer a buff (for most classes). I'm a user of lightning enchants on my CW and I can say that removing the multi-trigger on DoT makes me lose 10% of my dps. Couldn't you just fix the damage value? If it goes live without the multi-trigger it always had, I'll need to change that Transcendant Lightning Enchantment for a Vorpal. Currently, on my character, lightning is better than vorpal. Just don't make it weaker. It took me everything to just make the lightning enchantment matter.
There is plenty of bugs on weapon enchants now with the new update patch on preview namely the ones with the debuff aspect (terror,plague,frost). I have not checked lightning, bilethorn, fey but when i do get the time i will. I should probably be reporting all this on the bug section but i just wanted to highlight a few before i decide to make a comprehensive bug report. The 6% debuff from terror is applied only on the initial at-will, encounter , daily that triggers it. All succeeding attacks will not have the effectiveness applied on them. The stack from terror is lasting for 12 secs now and the debuff can be reapplied on a single attack after the expiration of the stack and on this goes. Plague is totally crippled right now and it's actually debuffing the person applying it with a 3% loss on RI and after you 3 stacks you gain a 3% increase in RI so you are back to 100% effectiveness basically. This bug is a lot similar to the one that affected "Bear Your Sins" and "Vanguard Banner" which is fixed and functioning well on live. Frost is still applying a 4 sec duration to the initial application and all subsequent applications after the 10 sec cooldown is at 6 sec (might need more testing here). All of the tests were done on dummies since i didnt have time to try this out on level 73 enemies. Anyways a gut feeling and from what i can muster, i believe most of this is happening because of some weird interaction between the refresh duration timers you applied on some of the enchants and the disability to multi proc weapon enchants per application. The previous patch didnt have these problems but the listed debuff values were not patched in. I know your deadline is up for weapon enchants but pls do look into this issue and maybe it might not be a bad option to revert the changes with respect to the multi proc and refresh duration at this point if the fix is going to take a long time and also since a lot of sw's above posted that their dps is effectively gimped with this change. I don't know much abt that but pls do fix the enchants.
@jonkoca Happened at the same time "Bear your sins" was fixed. They shared a similar problem and no surprises when both of them got fixed at the same time.
On current preview build, Trans Frost 10% debuff is still only a 4 second duration. Icon on target lasts for 10 seconds, but effectiveness in ACT only lasts for 4.
Anyone else, please confirm.
0
Options
kacsaneverMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 167Arc User
On current preview build, Trans Frost 10% debuff is still only a 4 second duration. Icon on target lasts for 10 seconds, but effectiveness in ACT only lasts for 4.
Anyone else, please confirm.
Confirmed. Neither tinypic nor hungarian image hosting works. I will upload screenshot of ACT ASAP.
Bug: Frost weapon enchant On current preview build, Trans Frost 10% debuff is still only a 4 second duration. Icon on target lasts for 10 seconds, but effectiveness in ACT only lasts for 4.
PS: @srathkey copied your experience to be "official" bug report.
*Yawn* good sleep does do wonders .. Ok i got back to preview and ran all these enchants more thoroughly. Terror seems to apply for a 3-4 secs duration where the debuff is active and beyond this you need to get that stack to drop to reapply this debuff and the stack lasts for a good 12 secs(which can be refreshed in duration if you keep hitting it continously). Frost is working on a 10% debuff with a 4 second uptime and 20 second cooldown. Now i'm going to state the cooldown is also bugged because it starts when the effect of frost is active meaning you actually only have 16 sec duration as cooldown. This will be a problem going forward with the supposed changes of working on 10 secs with a 10 sec cooldown because with the current behavior it would just mean this enchant will have a 100% uptime. I didnt notice notice any really different plague than what i stated above. Plz do look into these enchants since we have just barely 10 days left before the mod launches.
... Frost is working on a 10% debuff with a 4 second uptime and 20 second cooldown. Now i'm going to state the cooldown is also bugged because it starts when the effect of frost is active meaning you actually only have 16 sec duration as cooldown. This will be a problem going forward with the supposed changes of working on 10 secs with a 10 sec cooldown because with the current behavior it would just mean this enchant will have a 100% uptime. ...
Frost supposed to be 10 sec debuff w/ 20 sec CD - 50% uptime - but it is just 4 sec uptime ATM.
ah ok , i got a bit confused and thought it was reworked to 10 sec debuff with a 10 sec cooldown instead of 20 , went a few pages back and saw the post by asterdahl again and yes you are right.. its a 20 sec cooldown. i know its bugged with a 4 sec uptime now as is every other enchant with a debuff in it.
There seems to have been a recent change. BoVA only procs WEs once on activation, but the blade fling curse synergy proc on cursed targets now procs WE. This seems like a decent compromise.
Dreadtheft still only procs WEs once, on power activation.
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
0
Options
romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
Comments
@ghoulz66 happens to be a longtime Damnation SW player, btw.
Did you honestly think that there aren't already T. Lightning or non-Dread/Vorpal-using Damnation SW players on live?
It's very easy to think you've figured out everything about a build until you play them extensively. And some of these people have been playing these characters for almost a year.
You normally don't hear about them because they rarely stand out damage/survivability-wise.
How is T. Lightning/Frost/etc. being ideal for multi-proc powers like Dreadtheft any different from T. Vorpal/Dreadtheft being ideal for massive damage powers like Killing Flames and Soul Scorch? In fact Killing Flames, being neither a channeled power or a special resource power, actually becomes spammable in parties with Justice pallies or Hastening Light DCs.
It really @#$%es me off that I have to use an owlbear cub to remain relevant as a useful member for a group and even then my damage gets it's @#$ blown out of the water by HRs, competent TRs, GWFs, and many SS CWs. Damnation and Temptation desperately need all the extra sources of damage they can get.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
But i disagree with you when you say and damnation need more damage, they need their survival skills valued, if i wanted to be as dpsy as a fury i would be a fury not a damnlock, probably you dont have notion of the true survival basis because you never been through this scenario after the rework but i have multiple times (including lowering my ls to a minimum see what it was like):
DC DO on the team;
Low LS chance without endless consumption;
Tank incapable of holding aggro of a flee, even a dead one xD
As soon as AA, life steal, endless consumption and DT in target with 200% DR get a solution and they dont make players godlike you will see tons of people changing to damnation.
About temptation, definitivly needs a rework, with a accolite of kelemvor my LS(on a preview build) reaches a maximum of 88%, just leave PoP on the ground and all the team gets healed up in 2 seconds, damage is not as bad as it seems because of the owlbear cub, if you think it's a requirment in damnation, it's at least 40% of temptation damage, so quite much worse, it's working, yes but with a companion.
But what would bring making the game slower? Scratch cards.....yep, kinda, SVA for example what if SVA was a long fight with increased rewards and drop chance? Well suposing i didn't get anything it would create a sence of dispointment, in my head that opinion would grow, and if i did some more few runs and had bad luck that would incentivate me much more easly to give up than a fast squirmish with low reward because it creates a illusory sence of hope, it doesn't mean AD/hour is better than if we had longer runs, people just see mobs dying fast and under their sence that is cool, and when they do a fast run, they simply run another and another and another and loose the notion of time. I got tired of the system, pugging the original dungeons actually brings difficulty to the game.
Runing low level content and spending a lot of time in PE made me face plenty cases of people asking can i be this path or that and i either say: "No, only destroyer is viable, intigator iv is fun as well but on 5% of the cases will be better" or " yes you can be temptation but you need to get a owlbear cub and build power" or "you can be a DC DO but people will avoid you".
Anyway this is a WE discussion so....*slowly fades away saying bye*
Let me make this perfectly clear. If I did not have this owlbear cub, my DPS would plummet down nearing healer/tank level of damage. I already cannot compete with SB fury or GWFs, or HRs....
This change to DT and blades is losing me damage. I will freakin lose DPS because of these changes compared to live.
Because non-Furylocks definitely don't need more damage, lifesteal nerfs are somehow going to break Fury and elevate Damnation, and warlocks should somehow be as tanky as actual tanks because that's the only way we're going to survive end-game content hits for LS to actually be more useful... which is going to be pointless in mid-ilvl PvE pugs because of feats like Mocking Spirit and defender companions.
Arguing that your team is incompetent doesn't win you points BTW. We don't need players who didn't learn their class properly because they were carried through content, especially considering how power creep as made T1s very manageable for newbies. They can afford to learn their way through T2s without you babysitting them.
For the record, there have been a LOT of significant changes to warlocks since you last kept yourself up to date with the meta.
Probably i should try another language.
I don't have any specific feedback yet other than thanks for adding back some purpose to many of the weapon enchantments, and fixing a few bugs in the process...that is really good for the game in my opinion.
The interaction and communication from the game developers is great and refreshing. While I don't understand all of the game design chatter, it sheds some light on many aspects of the complexity of the coding behind the game and I for one, appreciate this new communication with the player community. Thanks again and even if there are a few loose ends, I am looking forward to the changes.
OP - Sunshine: 16000 IL
Casual Dailies
Happened at the same time "Bear your sins" was fixed. They shared a similar problem and no surprises when both of them got fixed at the same time.
On current preview build, Trans Frost 10% debuff is still only a 4 second duration. Icon on target lasts for 10 seconds, but effectiveness in ACT only lasts for 4.
Anyone else, please confirm.
Bug: Frost weapon enchant
On current preview build, Trans Frost 10% debuff is still only a 4 second duration. Icon on target lasts for 10 seconds, but effectiveness in ACT only lasts for 4.
PS: @srathkey copied your experience to be "official" bug report.
Dreadtheft still only procs WEs once, on power activation.