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New Updated TR Build
sirjimbofrancis
Member Posts: 348 Arc User
Hey Everyone,
It seemed to me that there weren't very many up-to-date builds out there with any kind of detail for TRs, so I updated mine (from 8 months ago), and here it is. Thanks to @thefabricant very much, and if anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to let me know!
nwohackandslash.wordpress.com
It seemed to me that there weren't very many up-to-date builds out there with any kind of detail for TRs, so I updated mine (from 8 months ago), and here it is. Thanks to @thefabricant very much, and if anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to let me know!
nwohackandslash.wordpress.com
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At-Wills: I never ever ever use Cloud of Steel (well ok maybe sometimes when I'm bored). Sly Flourish is a much better at will for a few reasons. Firstly when clearing trash while your aoe encounters are on cooldown you'll do more damage with a few hits of Sly than you could with Cloud during the same amount of time. Second when any enemy (boss or otherwise) gets to low enough health that continuing to stack DF bleeds would be meaningless, getting a few hits of Sly will do more damage than either Cloud or DF, as high as 500-600k per hit(this is obviously if enc. are on CD). Lastly, but mostly is the 4th hit from Sly applies the Broken Armor debuff to a target for 10 seconds, increasing all damage it takes from all sources by 10%. It is really easy to squeeze 4 hits from Sly into your rotation at the end of a flurry while you wait for stealth to regen, it actually fits into the timing really really well. So thats an extra 10% damage that your entire party will be doing to a boss.
The next thing that is different in my build is Grim Pleasure vs. Arterial cut. In my testing I found Arterial to be slightly better but in all honesty the difference is so minimal that you could choose either without any significant impact on overall damage output.
Single Target Encounter setup:
You use Dazing/ITC/Lashing. I feel that Wicked/ITC/Lashing is better. While you might do slightly more personal DPS using your setup, your party will do 21.3% more damage if you keep the Wicked Reminder debuff on a boss. Combined with the debuff from Sly Flourish a TR can increase the damage a target takes by 33.3%. Thats no slouch.
AoE Encounter setup:
Dazing/ITC/Smoke is a solid setup. An alternative to that would be Blade Flurry/ITC/Smoke or (if your in a party with lots of defensive debuffs) Blade Flurry/Dazing/Smoke. Daily power usage is altered slightly when using Blade Flurry however. You can still use Whirlwind (3 targets or greater) or you can utilize the stealth regen granted by Lurker's to spam the sweet bejeezus out of Blade Flurry, often times getting 12-15 activations before it goes on cooldown.
As far as class features go, Invisible Infiltrator and Infiltrator's Action are the best options, with the offhand artifact power for Inf. Action of course. I would only use Skillful Infiltrator if I was below 85% crit chance.
Companions:
Exactly the same setup I'm using and the best setup I've found through testing. The only difference is I keep the Wild Hunt Rider equipped all the time and let my Siege Master rot.
Mounts:
Solid. I agree these are the most ideal choices for insignia bonuses. The only difference from my setup is that I'm using Shepherd's Devotion at the moment instead of Artificer's Persuasion, but I often switch between the two depending on the group I'm in.
Playstyle:
Really good stuff here and other than the slightly different skill setup is just about the same way I play my TR. The only difference is right before starting up the rotation I hit twice with Sly, then stealth, 2 more hits from Sly then Wicked Reminder to start things off. Then its business as usual.
My full rotation is usually Slyx2>stealth>Slyx2>Wicked(SoDstarts)>DF>Lurker's>DF>ITC>stealth during the flurry(SoDends)>Lashing at the end while still stealthed(SoDstarts)>Wicked>DF>DF(SoDends)>Slyx2>ITC>stealth>Slyx2>Wicked.
Of course using this rotation its a crapshoot what attack gets your Shadowborn, sometimes its a DF hit and sometimes its the DF bleed. There are also times when a boss is at low health, you have Lurker's up and Lashing on CD and you can just a quick Lurker's>ITC>Stealth>Lashing for one last big hit to fishing off a boss. I call that the 'Record Breaker' as I like to try to hit Demogorgon or Goristro with it to break my personal record of 23.4 million Lashing.
Once again, cheers for putting this altogether. I'm still in the process of writing my own guide, but to be honest this one is so similar that I may not need to anymore.
She Looked Lvl 18
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Thing i would like to add is LAG(net lag, game lag, pc lag). Many of you dont have either one of them but i do have PC LAG which for me is constant since my pc is very weak and barely handling the NW, its so bad that i can barely move in places like Tiamat, VT, Edemo, 2nd boss in CN. For me there is no way to squeeze in 2x duelists flurry during one SoD, i can barely do one df+encounter. Simply lag affects your performance in you want to rank high in Paingiver chart. For me, for example, 2nd boss in CN is probably the laggiest place in NW, rest of the party moves 2x faster than me, if not more.
She Looked Lvl 18
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She Looked Lvl 18
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I have yet to play with an amazing exe tr against an amazing sw or gwf. I'd imagine that the exe tr would be far behind but I dunno, it's a new mod for Xbox and maybe the bosses stay alive long enough for SoD to actually matter.
I haven't tried the wheel tho I did take it to mythic. There are times I use dailies 2 or 3 times in one encounter. I just dont think the wheel and it's sometimes clunky interactions can make up for the ability to spam dailies
I just wish we had more PVE rogues willing to stand up, because the fact of the matter is we CAN compete with BIS GWFs and SWs and any other dpsers at this level. I wanna do my part to make that happen.
She Looked Lvl 18
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She Looked Lvl 18
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Really nice build, i am running meanwhile an similar build, but with the same rotation, always trying to maximse SoD proc.
Just a few questions, i am trying to complete the Orcus Set, what is more or less the dps boost between Orcus and Lost-Set?
Wild Hunt Rider: I bought one back in Mod5, still on green Quality, but it seems for me, that he is not that much proccing as back in the days of Mod5.
Is it worth to bring him on blue/purple/legend Quality, or should i stay with my companion setup: Fire (legend, summond), Air (epic), Earth (Epic) Archons, SiegeMaster (Epic), Erinye (Epic).
To Path of Blade:
I hate it^^, everytime i am running pug and i am seeing an TR using it, i will know what happened:
He dies in seconds, bc for me, it is the only aggro gain encounter in our Arsenal. And it is logical, these Attack on an few adds, without any CC ability (can't speak for Scoundrel), will gain aggro, the last thing an Tr will get is: Aggro espaicelly an Mi Exe without stealth....
So until PotB will not become the next uber Encounter with Billions, trillions, quadzillions on dps with the next TR Rework (in this century maybe) i will not use it.
It's hard to pin down the exact amount of DPS gain on the Orcus set because it doesn't show up as an individual stat in ACT. However, my lostmauth set accounted for something between 2 and 3% of my DPS, and I'd say we probably get about a 10% boost, at least, from Orcus. It's good. Really, really good compared to everything else right now.
As for the companions, I think, after testing, that, unless you are in the stronghold, the siege master should be swapped out for the wild hunt rider. I wouldn't use it unless it was purple, but it procs quite often. I believe every tick of smoke bomb, for instance, gives you a chance. I was skeptical, too, but I never take it off anymore.
She Looked Lvl 18
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She Looked Lvl 18
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I think with how you want to utilize CA bonus from Infiltrators Action it will be more efficient.
I got a bit didfferent build (no Scoundrel, just 5 points in Sabouter for better at-wills damage, but... When I checked ATC my TR has ~95-97% flanking bonus, so its almost all the time. With numbers that hight CA bonus damage from CHA should be at the same level as DMG bonus from STR. What's a big difference CHA gives you more than that - Deflection Chance (you can easily reach high numbers with CHA+DEX) which I think is better than Stamina or DoTResist bonuses.
It's great build overall, because it explains how to play TR. Mine is different, but I'll give it a try on preview, to check if it;s better
One more thing that I've noticed - Action Advantage in Heroic Feats Tree, I find it useless, because as far as I know it gives you % bonus of your % AP gain bonus. Lets say you got 30% AP gain bonus, with maxed out Action Advantage you will have 33% AP gain bonus, not 40% ;/ Similar feats are usefull on other classes like DC which have AP gain bonuses near 100%, but not on TR. You may put these points in better use.
I did not even consider Hunt Rider as a good companion for TR
About optimizing SoD damage on boss fights. I use SB, ITC, WR. SB allows you to activate SoD one after another without break. With bleeds hitting for 500k-1mln I find activating SoD more important than any encounters we can use.
My TR do not have feat for ITC, so I don't use it all the time. This is why in mobs-intesive fights like CN, VT or eCC I use Blade Flurry, five hits from these with all the buffs DC/GF/OP can give you and you're AoE DPS beast
I think you'll find that the scoundrel bonuses will give you higher DPS overall than the Sabo. Check it out and let me know!
I chose Action Advantage because I seemed to notice a difference. However, you could easily put two points in it and the last 3 into the deflect bonus, if you like. It probably doesn't make a big difference, either way.
The only problem with Smoke Bomb on the boss fights, is that 1) unless you stealth after you pop it, it won't proc SoD, which means at least some of the ticks will not crit, 2) The ticks last longer than the SoD takes to proc so, I find it isn't the most efficient, 3) the cool down is nearly as long as lashing blade so I can almost get 2 Dazing strikes for more damage out in the same amount of time, and 4) it will proc the shadowborn feat for a tick, instead of letting me use it for an encounter (although this can be a problem for bleed ticks as well, which is why I like fast attacks). Smoke bomb can be very handy when the boss has adds (like the mindflayer in CN) or if there is more than one (scorpions in Lostmauth). But, for single targets I prefer Dazing Strike instead.
Wicked Reminder is a great encounter to use, especially if you are running with a team that is undergeared or FBI. I just generally go with the encounters that give the highest damage. But, seriously, WR is great, and can really help the party. Same goes for Courage Breaker. Slightly less DPS, but it will help your party out more against those big bosses.
Blade Flurry is a really good AOE attack. I just find that damn sound annoying as HAMSTER. Purely personal taste here. after about 10 of those "slussslink"s, I want to scream. I'm able to keep up pretty well with SB, ITC and Dazing Strike, along with whirlwind and ITC (so I can survive in the middle of the mess). 10% bonus power each ITC helps me keep up. But, as I say in the build, there is more than one way up this mountain. If it works for you, absolutely use it.
Thanks again for the feedback!
She Looked Lvl 18
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She Looked Lvl 18
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The issue with CA, is that it's added to existing CA and not a multiplicative buff like STR.
(levelbase + weapons_damage) * skill_modifier * power * str_buff * (1 + I[ca]*(ca_stat + ca_base + ca_companions + ca_ability) + I[crit]*crit_severity )So to put some numbers, lets start with no bonuses, assume 100 base damage (and no skill modifier and power, not relevant for this), and CA:
base is 15%, stat is about 9%, companions 0, ability 0, and no crit.
100 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.09) = 124Now with cha at 25, we get 15% more CA:
100 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.09 + 0.15) = 139This is 12% increase in damage over the former.
Lets see STR instead, again 15 points over 10 (25 total):
100 * 1.15 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.09) = 142.6And we get as expected 15% over no bonus.
The bigger problem starts when we look at it together with crit, at this crit severity and CA added:
So lets assume 150% severity:
100 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.09 + 1.5) = 274With CHA:
100 * (1 + 0.15 + 0.09 + 0.15 + 1.5) = 2895.4% damage increase from the 15 cha points.
And instead STR:
100 * 1.15* (1 + 0.15 + 0.09 + 1.5) = 315.1(Same 15% increase over the without bonus number)
So baring mistakes and etc... STR is always significantly better than CHA.
Even assuming 100% CA uptime.
The good thing:
1. It takes the char sheet number, means it takes the bondings, twisted, and everything that adds power.
2. ITC doesn't interrupt stuff, so most of the time you can activate it in the middle of stuff.
The bad: it's only 10% and it's short, very very short.
On it's own to time those 10% power (not dps) to get significant increase out of is daunting.
The main trick I can see using it, is with whirlwind, whirlwind buffs 20% per hit up to 100% of basepower. Means no bondings, twisted etc, but ITC feat is direct stat modifier and will count as base, so if we ITC and then immediately Whirlwind, whirlwind will take into account the added power and with that the 10% of all the bondings etc.. With this small double buff.
And for a longer duration than ITC by itself, 5 sec for press the advantage vs 10 whirlwind buff.
But honestly at the end, all this timings to take care off... just slotting lashing and hit stuff is more fun. I personally use one of these:
Dazing, smoke, lashing
Dazing, smoke, blade Flurry
Dazing, WR, lashing.
Even though I've feated ITC last respec.
ITC may be good in the climb part of FBI to help survive(i personaly die there a lot, with my lag i cant dodge in time or just hoping pally/dc will save me lol).
Another nice thing, like said above, is buffing the WoB, combined with Tenser's combat power+ Cavalry Warning thats + ~30% power(if tenser and mount bonus take char sheet number). If i get tenser in this century i may try it out.
She Looked Lvl 18
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As for the rotations and using ITC, you may be right and I could help myself out by saving ITC for some specific bosses and situations. In FBI, it is very hard to get full use of all the buffs because timing is more difficult, especially with that last boss. I'll play around with my rotations and see if I like something better, but, as you know, rotations are somewhat flexible as there are plenty of successful combinations. Thanks for the feedback!
She Looked Lvl 18
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She Looked Lvl 18
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But using itc+shadowborn as a preparation for whirlwind can be an interesting idea.
ITC to get 10% of all added to base, shadowborn to x2 the base and then whirlwind to set it for all hits for the following 10 seconds. It will be interesting to see where the cutoff will be, meaning if it will be better or worse on single target vs lurkers, 2 targets, 3 and so on...
My base is about 30,000. The optimal rotation is stealth > Whirlwind > ITC > Stealth > Encounter (probably Dazing Strike). Using this rotation, I got my power to between 155,000-160,000. That does make for a big hit and saving your ITC until the end gives you about 14,000 additional power.
Furthermore, Whirlwind of blades does extend your shadowborn bonus for the extent of the Whirlwind bonus, however, it does NOT extend the ITC bonus. ITC goes away when ITC wears off.
I'd say the main advantage of ITC is defensive, with the possibility of a good power bonus entirely dependent on your rotation. In many instances, it is perfectly fine (even preferable) to run an additional encounter power, but ITC's best use (in my opinion), is saving your rotation against bosses about to put out big splash damage or control. It can be useful in big mobs to keep you alive if you find yourself surrounded, but if you take it as a buff move, make sure you have your rotation down very specifically in order to take full advantage.
She Looked Lvl 18
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She Looked Lvl 18
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Could it be better than arterial cut?
I have found Shadow strike to be much better than lashing when it comes to destroying the boss. Reguardless if you are using Shadowborne or arterial cut.
Having two stealthed flurry through a SOD... Being that you gain 6% damage when leaving stealth and then get bonuses for going back into stealth... A lashing cannot compete with a stealthed flurry.
It also looks like it adds a nice chunk of AP.
But here is the best part: the heck with stacking crit. You got 100%, plus a lot of severity, when it matters: during SOD. Stack power, and then ITC becomes something special..
I redid my boons, enchants, etc.. Even dropped 3k armpen guild boon for 3k power. Even though I'm a bit shy of 60 armp now, the increase has been huge. I think after x2 refinment, ill be at 60.
Having good AP gain is key to using shadow strike . if you are not getting a lot of dailies to refill stealth bar, you will be waiting for stealth to charge..
Plus, things don't always go smooth. Bad timing and no crit on lashing vs. having the ability to fully recharge stealth if your last got wasted...
Couple of Pallys gave you instant cooldowns? Another sod coming right up!